|
Author
|
Topic: I failed my son.
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Yes Betty Louise, and in the heart HE stays. But He wants to pop out in us like the emergency air-bag in the steering wheel, filling us to every corner. It is part of going on with God.
And I am afraid that what it is like is being invited to someone's house to go swimming in the pool. But when the host really wanted someone to swim, and play water volleyball, the guests only wanted to get the ankles wet. And the host had prepared a dinner to share with friends who would go swimming. The host would feel a little cheated. And so many 'come over' to wade, and few want to go swimming.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
I do not have the gift of tongues. My daughter and her teenager does. I do believe that the Holy Spirit comes to live in our hearts the moment we get saved.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Fair enough Betty Louise. But everyone upon whom the Spirit falls does not utter! I have met them in numbers (or have been exposed to them). They realize a change, but there is no 'language'. And that is my posture now, that it is disheartening, or perhaps discouraging to tell someone that they 'must' speak in tongues. It is putting God in a package, nicely wrapped and presentable, as though HE follows a prescription that must be followed. He does not. And denominations are prescription oriented.
Moreover, we only have to look as far as oneinchrist to see this. For his testimony is as I have described, unless I recall incorrectly.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
It is expected. In Pentecostal churches, they pretty much assume it is a 'sign' that you received the Baptism in the Holy Ghost
--------
How did the disciples know that someone was filled with the Holy Spirit?
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
1Cr 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
quote:
Sir oneinchrist said: quote:
I have been in a few Pentecostal churches in the past and I have seen how they prompt individuals to speak in tongues. To me that puts into the question the veracity of that gift because there would not be a need to prompt the Holy Ghost to do its work. In the book of Acts individuals suddently began to speak in other tongues as the spirit fell on them, they were not coached by Peter or any other disciple.
It is expected. In Pentecostal churches they take comfort, and pretty much assume it is a 'sign' that you received the Baptism in the Holy Ghost when you utter. They do it in ignorance. I say that in love. But I understand why they do it. They can relate to it.
It was mentioned when I received. Those laying hands and standing behind praying were expectant. And when I 'uttered', there was excitement and joy. They knew I had been baptized into Him.
And wow! I was as drunk as a sailor when I walked out of there. I could not walk on my own. I had someone to my left, and someone to my right. A better memory does not happen in this life. It doesn't happen.
And I am a testimony. And my testimony is true! Such cannot be counterfeited, praise God. And upon reading the Book of Acts, I knew what had happened to me. For it had happened to them long before me. And being one in the experience with them, I easily could recognize what they also knew. We were one together.
- 1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Betty Louise:
26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
------------
this is often what people refer to when they say prayer language. God knows what the Holy Spirit is saying.
betty
Then these "People" are wrong. Groanings don't require physical vocal cords...
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
1 Corinthians 14
1Cr 14:1
PURSUE love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
1Cr 14:2
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
1Cr 14:3
But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.
1Cr 14:4
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
1Cr 14:5
I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for[fn1] he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.
1Cr 14:6
But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?
1Cr 14:7
Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played?
1Cr 14:8
For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare for battle?
1Cr 14:9
So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.
1Cr 14:10
There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance.
1Cr 14:11
Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me.
1Cr 14:12
Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.
1Cr 14:13
Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
1Cr 14:14
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Cr 14:15
What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.
1Cr 14:16
Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?
1Cr 14:17
For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.
1Cr 14:18
I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;
1Cr 14:19
yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
1Cr 14:20
Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
1Cr 14:21
In the law it is written:
"With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,"[fn2]
says the Lord.
1Cr 14:22
Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
1Cr 14:23
Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?
1Cr 14:24
But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all.
1Cr 14:25
And thus[fn3] the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.
1Cr 14:26
How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
1Cr 14:27
If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret.
1Cr 14:28
But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.
1Cr 14:29
Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.
1Cr 14:30
But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent.
1Cr 14:31
For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.
1Cr 14:32
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
1Cr 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
1Cr 14:34
Let your[fn4] women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.
1Cr 14:35
And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.
1Cr 14:36
Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?
1Cr 14:37
If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Cr 14:38
But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.[fn5]
1Cr 14:39
Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.
1Cr 14:40
Let all things be done decently and in order.
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
1 cor 14
2 For he that speaks in a tongue does NOT speak to men but to God, for no one(no man) understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
v4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who propheesies edifies the church.
Pauls assertion clearly establishes the primary purpose for tongues as the gift of the Spirit for PRIVATE worship. It is a unique Godward and not a manward gift, unless interpreted so that hearers may understand.
Tongues are intended for personal prayer and praise to God (v14,17) Therefore, they can take on a strictly spiritual form of expression, since man is not the goal. the seat of their operation is not the mind but the spirit (v14,15)
Tongues are an enablement of the Spirit for nonconceptual communication directly with God, who is Spirit (John 4:24) by Paul (V18) Mysteries, as elsewhere in the NT, refers to secrets which have been divinely revealed.
The use of tongues is a means of private self-edification. It does not denote selfishness, but rather spiritual strengthening.
Paul reveals the place of tongues in his own personal prayer life. (14:14-19) Praying in tongues is praying from the Spirit instead of the intellect and the same is true of singing praises.
And, although Paul said "I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all", He preferred prophecy over tongues in the corporate setting as to edify the whole body that comes togethere in corporate worship.
And of course he laid down guidlines for use of tongues in the corporate setting with no more than 3 people using it, each in turn and there must be an interpretor, if not, just use it at home and keep silent in the church setting.
Your hacking of scripture proves out nothing.
You left out a lot of text.
[21] In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people;(Isreal) and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
[22] Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
LARRY...I am so very sorry about your child.
Anything else I might say could come out stupid so I will leave it at that.
IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
I think you will find in 1 Cor 12:10, well, I will look it up:
To another working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues.
Paul explains that members of a church are given different gifts and one of them could be speaking in tongues. As far a I know nothing is said about learning like a child, and it doesn't say anywhere I know of that it is used to pray.
It just says that the Holy Spirit will speak through you.
At the end times if you are called on by the enemy to speak you are told to only speak what the Holy Spirit has to say. Bubba, that ain't no time to be talkin baby talk. The book also says you can have more than one gift. At that time you can count on suddenly gettin the gift of tongues. Ya say well, I ain't never...well have faith and get used to it !
IP: Logged |
|
|
yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
|
posted
I have never heard that taught that way as well.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
This is what some people are being told in churches that preach that the gift of tongues is THE evidence of the filling of the Holy Ghost...............
"You may start off with a little baby language, but just keep on. Remember when your children were small they started out with a very small vocabulary, and then as they added new letters to it, they were capable of making more words. The same thing is sometimes of your spiritual language. The spirit can only give back to you what you give to Him, so put those extra sounds of the alphabet in and see what He does with them. Dont keep on speaking a baby language, but allow the Holy Spirit to develop a full language in and through you." END
--That is a way of saying the gift of tongues requires time and practice to perfect--something far different than the full-fledged ability to speak foreign languages without any training or practice.---
---------
again this was not taught at my Church. I am lucky, I guess
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
This is what some people are being told in churches that preach that the gift of tongues is THE evidence of the filling of the Holy Ghost...............
"You may start off with a little baby language, but just keep on. Remember when your children were small they started out with a very small vocabulary, and then as they added new letters to it, they were capable of making more words. The same thing is sometimes of your spiritual language. The spirit can only give back to you what you give to Him, so put those extra sounds of the alphabet in and see what He does with them. Dont keep on speaking a baby language, but allow the Holy Spirit to develop a full language in and through you." END
--That is a way of saying the gift of tongues requires time and practice to perfect--something far different than the full-fledged ability to speak foreign languages without any training or practice.
Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
yahsway,
great answer.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
|
posted
1 cor 14
2 For he that speaks in a tongue does NOT speak to men but to God, for no one(no man) understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
v4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who propheesies edifies the church.
Pauls assertion clearly establishes the primary purpose for tongues as the gift of the Spirit for PRIVATE worship. It is a unique Godward and not a manward gift, unless interpreted so that hearers may understand.
Tongues are intended for personal prayer and praise to God (v14,17) Therefore, they can take on a strictly spiritual form of expression, since man is not the goal. the seat of their operation is not the mind but the spirit (v14,15)
Tongues are an enablement of the Spirit for nonconceptual communication directly with God, who is Spirit (John 4:24) by Paul (V18) Mysteries, as elsewhere in the NT, refers to secrets which have been divinely revealed.
The use of tongues is a means of private self-edification. It does not denote selfishness, but rather spiritual strengthening.
Paul reveals the place of tongues in his own personal prayer life. (14:14-19) Praying in tongues is praying from the Spirit instead of the intellect and the same is true of singing praises.
And, although Paul said "I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all", He preferred prophecy over tongues in the corporate setting as to edify the whole body that comes togethere in corporate worship.
And of course he laid down guidlines for use of tongues in the corporate setting with no more than 3 people using it, each in turn and there must be an interpretor, if not, just use it at home and keep silent in the church setting.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Betty Louise:
26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
------------
this is often what people refer to when they say prayer language. God knows what the Holy Spirit is saying.
betty
Then have ALL grown in the Spirit talk mentally, not with words they do not understand.
This "Toungage" language is NOT BIBLICAL as a "Personal" prayer language.
It does not EDIFY the body.
Prove me wrong.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
------------
this is often what people refer to when they say prayer language. God knows what the Holy Spirit is saying.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
There is no such thing in the Bible as a personal prayer language of tongues.
Not Biblical....
Al thou we are reminded that..
Rom.8
[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
Daniel,
I believe what you are saying. I am not trying to question what you saw. I honestly believe that Pastors some times make mistakes when it comes to the Holy Spirit. Sometimes it is honest mistakes and sometimes, it is on purpose to get more people to attend services.
God bless you.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Oh I agree with you Betty. I am just telling you what I have seen in the past.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
Good Evening Daniel,
We were taught the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, but the Pastor did not try to Baptize you. Only the Holy Spirit can give you the gift of tongues. I have been to Church Camp where they prayed for people to be Baptized in the Holy Spirit but only the Holy Spirit can give you the gift.
Hope this helps you, brother.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Was the Assembly of God that you attended a Pentecostal church? Most Pentecostals that I know personally (both family and friends) are well aquainted with the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" which is tightly associated with the recieving of the gift of tongues. It would be conducted by the pastor or associate leader of the church.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
Hi Betty,
Did they conduct baptism of the Holy Spirit in the church you attended? If so, what did they tell people before they did it? did everyone speak in tongues in your church?
With love in Christ, Daniel
--------------
What on earth is conducting baptism of the Holy Spirit? I do not speak in tongues and neither did others.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi Betty,
Did they conduct baptism of the Holy Spirit in the church you attended? If so, what did they tell people before they did it? did everyone speak in tongues in your church?
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
I grew up in the Assembly of God Church and NO ONE ever was prompted to speak in tongues. I am in no why doubting what you are saying. Anyone who tries to prompt the Holy Spirit to work is on dangerous ground. We do not tell the Holy Spirit what to do. Thank God not every Church has made this mistake.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi Larry,
I agree with the Calvary chapel on the gift of tongues. In Corinthinans chapter 12 Paul describes the diversities of gifts and in vs. 10 he states........to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another interpretation of tongues.
Paul states that the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each, but that there are diversities of gifts.
I have been in a few Pentecostal churches in the past and I have seen how they prompt individuals to speak in tongues. To me that puts into the question the veracity of that gift because there would not be a need to prompt the Holy Ghost to do its work. In the book of Acts individuals suddently began to speak in other tongues as the spirit fell on them, they were not coached by Peter or any other disciple.
Larry, I am not God so I cannot speak for you. But I do wonder if there is the possiblility that Pentecostal church leaders take the risk of "speaking presumptuously" by claiming that all speak in tongues as evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Larry Parker
Advanced Member
Member # 7468
|
posted
To The Beauty of Holiness 777:
Thanks for your kind words. The Lord has helped me to continue to have faith in Him in spite of what happened. My faith in Jesus as my Lord and Savior is stronger than ever. I expose my sin of presumption to warn others of the problem of the false teaching about faith.
To Daniel:
I attend Calvary Chapel where they believe that speaking in tongues is is just ONE evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost. When I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit I spoke in tongues. I still do every day in my prayer time. Therefore I tend to side with the belief that speaking in tongues is THE evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost but I would not argue with my Calvary Chapel brothers about it. By the way, I noticed in other posts that you believe in a pre-wrath rapture. I do too!
God bless, Larry
Posts: 22 | From: Barstow, California | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi again Larry,
I noticed in one of your posts above that you stated that you are Pentecostal. If I may, I would like to ask you a question about your faith.
Do you believe that the "gift of speaking in tounges" is THE evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost.........or do you believe that the gift of tongues is just ONE evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost?
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
The Beauty of Holiness777
Advanced Member
Member # 7380
|
posted
Larry I am so sorry you had to go through what you went through because of an error or misteaching of man. I too have lost love ones but I guess the one that hit me the hardest was my mother. We prayed for her healings as well. But it was God's Will for her to go home and rest. Did it hurt you bet it did, there are times when I really miss her but I know she is in a better place. For she was saved and served the Lord til the day He called her home.
Inspite of what we go through we must always keep our faith in God. For without faith it is impossible to please Him.
If there is one thing I do know that God is a healer and a deliverer.
Some of His healings are instant which is a "Miracle" and some of His healings are gradually which he does over time. So when the phrase says Name it, Claim it one must never expect God to move on their time. Or expect God to do it just because we ask.
Jesus said ask anything in His name and the Father will do it.
But what we failed to realize as I too had to learn we are to ask whatever is in the Will of God. Not what we will or want Him to do. I cannot say it was not God's Will for you precious son to be healed only God knows. But as someone has said previously we must never tempt God by doing something that man told us to do. We must always pray to him first and asking that His Will be done.
Sometimes we ask God for things and there is a delay or denial because He sees something in the future that we don't see; He love us so much that He don't want us to go through those things. Or for the ones that we are praying for to go through those things; and God don't make mistakes there is a reason for everything He does.
Another thing I know for sure is God don't want you to continually keep blaming yourself. You have been punished enough through the loss of your son who is now resting in the Lord. He was a flower in the Garden of God that God decided to pick early for His own reasons. If it was God's Will for him to live he would have lived, just as my mother would have live.
But through our losses our faith and trusting in God inspite of is what strengthens us and carries us through. My mind always goes back to Job "Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him.
Your testimony will help others but you must quit carrying this load on your shoulder for God has forgiven you.
You have the joy of knowing your son's soul is not lost for to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. This is also my comfort with my mother.
Miss Alisha;
Never talk negative about your condition God has spared your life for a reason. You said no one has lived to see 40 with your disease that is what man or doctors says.
Doctors only have license to practice, their licenses never says quaranteed to heal. They can only give us medicine for the symptoms to relieve them.
But it is God that does the Healing. Dear sister God always has the last say so; and He is able to do anything but fail. I will keep you in my prayers as well as Larry and his family.
God bless you all.
--------------------
In God I'am Complete.
I am a "Spiritual Being" living in a physical body.
{Prayer - a force that reaches people and places when we can't}
Posts: 192 | From: God's Universe | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Miss Alisha
Community Member
Member # 7438
|
posted
Larry:
My sincere condolences for your painful lost. I really enjoyed reading your post as well as the one written by Daniel. It is nice to hear testimonies of other believers. I was diagnosed at 2 w/ a blood disease I was born with. My life expectancy was very low, but because of the prayers of faith by my family, and especially my father who is a minister, I am still alive. I have no doubt that the prayers of the righteous availeth much. I will pray that God will continue to give you both strength, and I thank you for sharing your testimony. I know that even if my life is not as long as others, and most likely it will not be, no one with my disease usually lives past 40, I belong to God and my life is in His hands. Be Blessed.
--------------------
For surely, we shall behold Him!
Posts: 14 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Oct 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Larry Parker
Advanced Member
Member # 7468
|
posted
Daniel,
The Definition of the word, Faith, is of utmost importance! Most evangelicals don’t have a problem with the word, faith, however, we Pentecostal and Charismatic believers do. When someone says he or she is going to have faith for healing or some other kind of blessing it is because they don’t understand what faith is. It is incorrect to say, “Let’s have faith for something.” In effect, that phrase leaves God out of our request. We will see by the definition of faith that we cannot have faith for something; we must have faith in someone (God). Jesus never told us to have faith for anything. What He said was, “Have faith in God” (Mark 11:22, emphasis added).
Our faith is in Christ; that He is our Lord and Savior and that He wants what is best for us.
One must understand that going to see a doctor and taking his advice in not a test of faith. God heals in His way. Sometimes it is by a miracle, however He may heal us through the use of doctors. Nevertheless it is always God who heals.
The real test of our faith is when we don't get what we pray for. Do we continue to trust in God? When your pray for the baby was not answered in the afermative you continued to trust God. You too passed the test.
I plan to give a clear definition of faith in further postings.
God bless,
Larry
Posts: 22 | From: Barstow, California | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi again Larry,
I dont know if you noticed, but I added more to my above post.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Larry Parker
Advanced Member
Member # 7468
|
posted
Hi Daniel,
We have been taught by WOF to prove God by claiming He has healed us whenever we ask for it. That is a presumptuous teaching that has limited God’s healing power. Psalm 78:41 says, “Yes, again and again they tempted God and limited the Holy One of Israel.” The Hebrew word used for “tempted” is nacah (naw-saw), which means to tempt or prove God. The Word-Faith teaching does just this. Its teaching encourages believers to claim everything from healing to wealth. This is not a correct teaching of faith. It is teaching the sin of presumption, which brings devastation and death to unsuspecting believers. It is presumptuous to assume that God has healed just because we ask. We must wait for Him to answer our request in the way HE chooses.
God bless,
Larry
Posts: 22 | From: Barstow, California | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi Larry,
Greetings to you in the Name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I am sorry to hear about the trajedy. Sometimes we wrestle with what it really means to put all of our trust in God. I noticed that you have chosen to put your post under the "Exposing false teaching" section of this forum. Is there something that you have learned that you believe that we need to beware of? and if there is.......could you please share it with us??
You speak of the sin of presumption. Doesnt presumptuous sin mean that it is a purposeful premeditated sin? I have a hard time believing that you had the intent to end your sons life. What do you mean when you say presumptuous sin?
Perhaps where you exercised "faulty judgement" was not in verifying the supposed "healing" with the doctor. He would be the one most qualified to verify that type of healing......right? But on the other hand, being a brother in the Lord, I can see where you may have thought that a trip to the doctor would be showing a lack of trust in God.
The test of our faith determines who our God really is. No matter how ironic it may sound......I believe you passed that test. Just recently a pregnant relative of mine was told that her baby had no heartbeat and that they were going to have to put her baby to rest. It was awful news for them to bear. She had to wait till the weekend was up before she would return back to the doctor for the procedure. My wife and I stopped at their house that Saturday and I went down in the basement with the husband to share with him my heart. I told him that they should get a re-test on Monday to confirm that the baby is dead, because between now and then God could decide to change the course of events. They both agreed and the whole family prayed. In my private prayer to God I expressed my desire for this to be an opportunity for us to lift up the Name of His Son Jesus.
Monday came, they did a retest and found that the baby was still dead. They then went ahead with the procedure. The whole family was sad, but did not blame God.
What did I learn from this experience? Actually a few things. I learned that we should always put our trust in God because He is the One capable of reversing any situation. I learned that I cannot command anything to happen that is not in Gods will. Would I have suggested the re-test again if I was to go back in time? absolutely! because I truely believe God has the power to change any circumstance. Would I have prayed in Jesus Name again? absolutely! because it may have been God who was entrusting me with that authority. I could never possibly know the outcome unless I seized the opportunity.
Now how does our testimony compare with yours. We both put trust in God, we both put faith in the Name of Jesus. Nothing wrong with that. I think the only real difference is.....is that we did not believe that trusting God meant having to take 100% trust away from doctors.......I think that is where you were mislead. That sounds like it could have been grounds for a law-suit to me, especially if the pastor/teacher is the one who made the claim that your boy was "healed". There needs to be proof to substantiate those kinds of claims. If it was an outward disease than its easy to tell, but on an inward (blood, organs, etc) disease it is a whole different matter to be considered.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Larry Parker
Advanced Member
Member # 7468
|
posted
There are times in some people’s lives when something happens to them, which completely, and forever, changes their life. These life-changing experiences can be the result of a critical decision one makes, or simply the consequence of an accident. Nevertheless, the change is permanent. We can never un-do what has been done. As long as I am in this ‘flesh,’ I will, always be branded as a father who failed his son, family and friends. I cannot change that. Nevertheless, I undergo the difficult task of exposing my failures one more time, because I believe it is an assignment, from the Lord, that will help His Church. The tragic decision to stop my son’s insulin will always be a part of who I am. The grace of God and the shed blood of His Son Jesus Christ have brought me forgiveness. All the same, I must carry the memory of having failed my first-born son with me to the grave. That is only one of the consequences of my sin of presumption. However, I will not allow myself to sit in the ashes of self-pity, nor let that failure keep me from being used, by God, to turn others away from such a grievous sin. Just as God showed Moses the Promised Land from Mount Pisgah, He has opened my ‘spiritual eyes,’ here, to see my son living, with great joy, in His presence where I will join him one day. I draw much comfort from that.
In times past, I assumed that the traditions and teachings handed down to me by my church leaders were true. I did not question them. I do now! I know nowadays, to examine everything with the light of the word of God. To, “Test all things; hold fast what is good.” It has been over three decades since my wife, Lucky, and I experienced the catastrophe, which cost our son his life. It drove us to study the Bible carefully for ourselves. I learned, from that very painful episode in my life, not to rely solely on what someone else tells me. My experience and the Holy Spirit, through intensive biblical study over many years, have taught me what real faith is. I hope to share that knowledge with you in future postings.
Posts: 22 | From: Barstow, California | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
