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Topic: Predestined doesn't mean automatic!
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Carol Swenson
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DaveB wrote
quote:
The biblical gospel states God, purely out of his Grace and mercy, saves a great number of people from among all nations of the human race. These people are called "the elect". They were predestined to be saved from before the foundation of the world.
This leads to the conclusion that God knowingly and willingly predestined and created countless millions of people who are doomed to eternal punishment with no choice. They were created to be sent to hell for ever and ever.
This is too horrifying to even consider.
It seems that you teach that the sacrifice of Christ was expiatory in the sense that Christ suffered vicariously the punishment of the sins of the elect. The expiation thus is absolute in behalf of the limited number for whom it is made. For the nonelect, or reprobate, there is no expiation.
The truth is that the sacrificial sufferings of Christ were not of the nature of punishment, but were a divinely appointed, though conditional, substitute for the punishment of the sins of all mankind. The sacrifice of Christ is expiatory in the sense that all who truly repent of their sins and believe on Christ have, on account of that sacrifice, their guilt canceled, the punishment of their sins remitted.
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Michael Harrison
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The usage of the passage that the natural man receiveth not the things of God is way out of line the way you used it. In context, that passage comes from this group of passages:
- 1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
The eye of the unbeliever has not seen, nor heard. But what does it say next?
- 1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
Ok! God 'hath' revealed them to us who have been regenerated. Then it goes on to say that man's spirit is familiar with worldly things which concern man, and that the Spirit of God knoweth not man, meaning that he does not associate with him. But the Spirit of God knows God, and reveals Him to us who surrender by faith.
- 1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
But, as I said:
- 1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
- 1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God because, first of all, he does not believe. Now, it is important to note that this applies all over again to the believer who is somehow not spiritual because of some kind of lingering 'unbelief' about the things of God.
- 1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
The spiritual person is no longer abiding in the natural, and is spiritual, thereby he has the Mind of Christ operating in him. It is the 'faith of God' working in the 'believer'.
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Carol Swenson
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Hi Betty Louise,
quote:
Shaking the Pastor's hand doesn't save you. You have to have a heart change to get saved.
You're right about that! We must be born again.
REGENERATION
A. The Meaning of Regeneration
The word, used only twice in the New Testament (Matt. 19:28; Titus 3:5), means to be born again. To be born from above (anothen) occurs in John 3:3 and probably includes the idea of being born again also (see the use of anothen in Gal. 4:9). It is the work of God which gives new life to the one who believes.
B. The Means of Regeneration
God regenerates (John 1:13) according to His will (James 1:18) through the Holy Spirit (John 3:5) when a person believes (1:12) the Gospel as revealed in the Word (1 Peter 1:23).
C. The Relation of Regeneration and Faith
In the Reformed statement of the ordo salutis, regeneration precedes faith, for, it is argued, a sinner must be given new life in order to be able to believe. While this is admittedly stated only as a logical order, it is not wise to insist even on that; for it may as well be argued that if a sinner has the new life through regeneration, why does he need to believe? Of course, there can be no chronological order; both regeneration and faith have to occur at the same moment . To be sure, faith is also part of the total package of salvation which is the gift of God (Eph. 2:9); yet faith is commanded in order to be saved (Acts 16:31). Both are true.
D. The Fruit of Regeneration
The new life will bear new fruit. In 1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1, 4, and 18, some of the results of the new life include righteousness, not committing sin, loving one another, and overcoming the world.
(Basic Theology)
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Betty Louise
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When the DaVinci Code movie came out, I read several books about the movie. (have not seen it)
One lady wrote that when she was a child her whole family went down to shake the Preachers hand to get "saved". Then her family got enlighten and realized that everyone was already saved. I think the devil got ahold of her family and made them believe a lie. Her family had been confused from the start. Shaking the Pastor's hand doesn't save you. You have to have a heart change to get saved.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Billy
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Great, great, great point!
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Test yourselves to be sure that you are in the faith.
- The Apostle Paul
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Betty Louise
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What is sad is when someone was raised in a Christian home and knows the truth, but rejects the truth. Is it pride that makes someone think that they do not have to accept salvation? If everyone is saved, would God have allowed the Apostles to die for spreading the Gospel? Paul knew his life was on the line and was persecuted for spreading the Gospel, but it was worth it to him, to see lost souls saved.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Billy
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Good article, Carol. At first I was concerned that the article was addressed to me, and I was about to apply the statement, "...but I didn't say...", but then it quickly became apparent that you were addressing the same issue that I was. Again, I say, "Good article."
In Christ,
Billy.
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Test yourselves to be sure that you are in the faith.
- The Apostle Paul
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Carol Swenson
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When discussing this question, it is essential to keep certain truths clearly in mind.
(1) Unlimited redemptionists are not universalists . They do not believe that all will ultimately be saved. Nor does their view require or logically lead to such a heretical conclusion. To assert this is to create a straw man.
(2) All people are lost, including the elect. The fact that an individual is elect does not in some way make him less lost than a nonelect person.
(3) Anyone who will be saved must believe. The Father will draw the person, yet he must come (John 6:37, 44).
(4) Some Scriptures do relate the Atonement particularly to the elect. See John 10:15 and Ephesians 5:25 for clear examples. Unlimited people readily acknowledge this. But this is not the issue. The question is: are there Scriptures which broaden the extent of the Atonement beyond the elect? Limited advocates say no, and attempt to explain those passages which seem to broaden the Atonement in ways that do not broaden it. In other words, unlimited advocates acknowledge that the Atonement is both limited and unlimited; limited advocates insist that it is strictly limited and do not recognize any unlimited passages as teaching unlimited atonement.
Limited atonement or particular redemption can scarcely be termed a cornerstone doctrine. Nevertheless, it obviously is sometimes a hotly debated one. Berkhof is typical of those who hold the view and who express the issue this way: “Did the Father in sending Christ, and did Christ in coming into the world, to make atonement for sin, do this with the design or for the purpose of saving only the elect or all men? That is the question, and that only is the question” (Systematic Theology [Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1941], p. 394). If indeed the question is properly expressed this way, then the answer is clear: the Atonement was limited, for Christ did not come into the world to save all men. Our understanding of election makes that answer certain.
But is Berkhof’s question the correct question? The answer is no . It is false to say that “that is the question, and that only is the question.” Rather, the actual question is: did Christ purpose by coming into the world to make provision for the salvation of all people, realizing that the Father would mysteriously draw the elect to Himself and allow others to reject the provision made? Because some reject does not invalidate the provision or mean that the provision was not made for them.
If we say that a father provides sufficient food for his family, we do not exclude the possibility that some members of that family may refuse to eat what has been provided. But their refusal does not mean that the provision was made only for those who actually do eat the food.
Likewise, the death of Christ provided the payment for the sins of all people—those who accept that payment and those who do not. Refusal to accept does not limit the provision made. Providing and possessing are not the same.
(Basic Theology)
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Billy
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I think there is a misconception here between what Calvinists (Pre-destination, election, reform theology) teach and what is taught in Universalism. Universalism teaches that all receive the grace of Christ, regardless of whether or not they are specifically called or elected by God. Reformers typically teach that there is a process that takes place when you are saved, and that process is started and finished by God:
1) He chooses you (many believe that this is based on the fact that He foreknew that you would submit).
2) He calls you via the Holy Spirit.
3) He convicts you via the Holy Spirit.
4) As a result of His convicting you, you repent of your sins.
5) He convinces you via His holy Spirit.
6) As a result of His convincing you, you place your faith in Christ for salvation from, and sanctification of, sins.
The evidence that you truly repented is that you continue to repent, today. The evidence that you truly put faith in Christ is that you continue to have faith in Christ, today. This is a far cry from Universalism which teaches that all are saved, even those that hate God.
Many argue that reform theology (or Calvinism) leads to a lack of evangelistic drive. This is not true. We are still called to plant the seed. However, it is the Lord that is responsible for the growth. I'll provide scripture for all this if it is needed. As it is, I have to get to bed, right now. Later.
In Christ,
Billy.
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Test yourselves to be sure that you are in the faith.
- The Apostle Paul
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Dave B.
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Hello Chosenone and Michael, Carol,
Well I thought I might weigh-in on this one as well. It is a very good Title "Predestination does not mean "automatic"".
Chosenone, I understand what you are saying regarding the deceptive influence of "free-will" in that the concept of "free-will" is often misunderstood or more precisely, misapplied.
All men have free-will. Adam and Eve certainly had free-will and we also have free-will. However the biblical teaching on salvation, shows that our "will" is not the problem. The problem is our nature. According to the Bible, the unsaved person is "dead in trespasses and sins". There is a great verse in 1 Cor 2:14: "The natural man cannot accept the spiritual things of God, because they are follishness to him Neither can he lay hold of them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Thus all of us, before God saves us, have used our free-will within the context of our nature, to always choose sin. This is one reason why Jesus told the Pharisees that "all who commit sin are the slaves of sin". We are not robots. We are slaves. And as slaves we will always obey our master.
So how does this relate to the question "Predestination does not mean automatic?". Two issues:
1. Because we are by nature enemies of God and spiritually dead. We as sinners, by ourselves, can and will never perfom any truly spiritual "decision" or other religious act in order to cause our salvation. The best we can do is make psychological decisions.
Many today, preach what I call the "modern gospel" which states in effect "If you come forward and sincerely accept Jesus into your heart as your personal savior, you are a Christian". This is taught as an "automatic formula" for salvation. As we know, this gospel is not taught anywhere in the Bible. It is simply another religion, like all religions. It replaces the grace of God with yet another psychological religious act.
2. The biblical gospel states God, purely out of his Grace and mercy, saves a great number of people from among all nations of the human race. These people are called "the elect". They were predestined to be saved from before the foundation of the world.
Again, this is not "automatic", but was meticulously planned by God even before we were ever born. Because we are dead, we need someone to first, make us alive ("born again", or "regenerated", as we say). This being made alive is God's sovereign act and God's prerogative. God uses the hearing of his word, to apply the blood of Christ on the individual's behalf. The following happens:
> Divine life is imparted to the sinner
> The penalty of sin is paid in full
> The righteousness of Christ is imputed to the account of the former sinner.
> The sinner is justified (declared righteous)
> The reigning power of sin in the believer's life is broken (no such thing as a carnal christian).
> The believer has a new nature, whose free-will is now free to respond to spiritual things.
We can see there is nothing automatic about salvation or the predestination of it. God had a lot to do, when he decided to save us. Thus no one can or should be prideful when they become saved. Since we did not do anything to cause it. Instead we should pray to God thanking him for his grace and urgently asking him to include as many people in the elect as possible. We do not know how many there will be. God is certainly capable of saving everyone alive today.
Well I hope this helps. Have a good weekend.
Dave B.
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
chosone states by this translation quote:
Our salvation is not out of ourselves. We do not possess it because we have done this or that in order to acquire it. Consequently, boasting is debarred (Rom.3:27). This is because we are God’s achievement. “For His achievement are we” (Eph.2: 10a). We are saved because we are God’s achievement. It is just that simple and this is fully the truth.
The word “achievement,” is poiˆma (DO-effect). We are the product of God’s doings. It is only unbelief that will seek to modify this or to explain it away. This unbelief is due to the deceptive influences of the worldly philosophy known as free will. We do not care for the fact that we ourselves, who effect much evil and some good, are the product of God’s own doings.
Our salvation is not of ourselves. We did do something to acquire it! But can we boast?
1Co 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
But, did we receive it; or did we reject it? We did not receive it without willingness. We had to choose. But we did something!
Neither did God did achieve it without our participation. He was pleased for us to participate. He didn’t say, “Do you want to be saved,” to which we answered no, and He saved us anyway. I mean - how strange.
In answer to the statement about effecting evil, and some good, there is nothing good in us. “All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.“ So, Jesus said that being evil, we know how to give good gifts. But that has no bearing on our being ‘good’ such that we can gain entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Here is a look at the KJV on the passage above:
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. [He justifies those who believe. That is a participatory faith]
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. [It didn’t ‘cause’ our salvation. It did however effect it.]
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. [That we are justified by faith means that we are justified by believing on His finished work. For one cannot ‘achieve’ salvation. But he can discover it.]
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
We are created in Christ Jesus unto good works when we believe on Him, which means replaced by faith. Another valid description would be that we are ‘recreated’, but together with Him.
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
so called, chosenone's choice of literature states that[QUOTE] Now if it were true, as many will say, that man is finally the key to his own welfare—especially to such unspeakable gain as exemption from indignation and deliverance unto glory—this would have been just the place to have made this known. In fact, if such a thing were true, Paul should have made this clear, and would have been terribly remiss in having failed to do so.
- Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Man is not the key to his own welfare, yet, man has his part in participating, both in coming to submission of belief, and the outworking therof as he walks it out. For he must be willing to 'surrender' to the will of God. Without that surrender he is making a statement that he is ok as he is. But this is why scripture tells us that:
- Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
For one must not resist HIS life. And this is not works, which effect anything as though man's input does anything. It is fruit, as though the posture of faith bears it, as one being properly aligned with His will.
![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
quote:
“Grace” refers to God’s work or action of grace, the work which He does for us and in us, as a favor or gracious gift. As ordinarily used, the expression “God’s grace” is a figure of speech. It is a metonymy (figure of association) for “God’s work of grace,” in reference to whatever gracious gift may be in view. That is, literally, grace is not an action, but the character of an action.
So! Grace is what God does for us. If we don't rest in what God does for us, we do not benefit thereby. The question not only is "What has He done for us," by sacrificing Himself on our behalf, but what is the ongoing work that is to our benefit? We are to rest in that - which is to 'assimilate' and 'appropiate' it. Otherwise it is trampled in I'm ok, you're ok, God's grace covers it, fashion. But it does not cover insubordination as though it is "condoned, or tolerated as the failures that they are, but covered."
![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
quote:
Yet what does it mean for something to come to us “through” something else? That is, what does “through” mean? “Through” is a preposition which means “by way of.” A synonym for “through” is “by means of.”
quote:
All of my posts say that grace is God's doing for you what you cannot. This goes back now to the paragraph above. He is 'doing' it for you, but you do not benefit automatically, but by participation through faith. I call it 'having', but acknowledging 'having' puts one under the Cross, which means that they do not live unto themselves, or sin. Therefore one Luke 17:33's.
Eph 2:8 For by grace [God's doing to accomplish what you cannot do to accomplish] are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God [you have it if you believe for it, which is a choice of the will]:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.[Man does not accomplish it by trying, nevertheless he does accomplish it by 'letting' God. For cooperation is required, though it is not a cooperation of works, but of faith. And God does not override any man's will!!!]
Eph 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
We walk in good works by faith, not effort, for who does the doing? Then by faith, we are to let Him do.
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chosenone
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HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE
For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God’s approach present, not of works lest anyone should be boasting. For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them (Eph.2:8-10).
This passage is a most enlightening one. Its revelations are clearly expressed and are exceptionally glorious. We are overwhelmed by the magnificence of these declarations, and are exceedingly glad that they are true. For they allow us—indeed, they constrain us—to glorify God as God and to take our proper place as His creatures.
Ephesians 2:8 begins with the word “for” (gar, SURELY-CONSEQUENTLY): “For in grace, through faith, are you saved.” Gar is “a causal conjunction, introducing the logical reason” (KEYWORD CONCORDANCE, p.114, entry “for”). Whenever a sentence or clause begins with this word, what follows tells us why that which has gone before is so. It joins one thought to another, forming the causal link between them.
YET GOD
As in any passage in which gar appears, in Ephesians 2:8 at the beginning of the verse, we should note the causal relationship between a former and a latter statement, in order to understand why the declarations which have already been set forth are true.
The immediate revelation previous to Ephesians 2:8 is comprised in verses 1 to 7. There we learn that, notwithstanding our former walk, our shameful behavior in the lusts of our flesh, being, in our nature “children of indignation, even as the rest, yet God. . . . (Eph.2:3b,4a).
Yet God! “O what meaning, O what wealth these words impart.” It is true that, having become unnatural through our own inherent disposition with which we were born (Rom.8:7), besides the ravages of mortality and those influences of sin which “accord with the chief of the jurisdiction of the air” (Eph.2:2), we were indeed, “in our nature, children of indignation, even as the rest” (Eph.2:3b). Consequently, we could only anticipate severe divine judgment. This is because, in the day of indignation and revelation of, God’s just judgment, “indignation and fury, affliction and distress” will be upon “every human soul which is effecting evil” (Rom.2:9).
Nonetheless, Yet God! It is evident that Paul is speaking here in an ultimate or final sense in accounting for the stupendous change that has occurred with regard to our present standing and future course. He has just rehearsed our awful past and insisted that insofar as anything related either to our acts or nature is concerned, it can only be said that we were, “children of indignation, even as the rest.” That is, we had no more claim upon God’s blessing and were no more entitled to exemption from indignation, much less to possession of eonian life, than anyone else.
Now if it were true, as many will say, that man is finally the key to his own welfare—especially to such unspeakable gain as exemption from indignation and deliverance unto glory—this would have been just the place to have made this known. In fact, if such a thing were true, Paul should have made this clear, and would have been terribly remiss in having failed to do so.
But what does our apostle declare? Does he say, “Yet man. . . .”? Does he say, “Yet men, those such as ourselves who are saved, at the vital point, their former sinfulness notwithstanding, summoned something from within so as to make the right decision and thus qualify themselves for divine deliverance”? If this idea is the truth, Paul should have said as much, and he should never have said—especially at this vital juncture— “Yet God. . . . ”
Yet this is just what he did say! He said, setting forth the truth, “Yet God . . . .” “Yet God, being rich in mercy, because of the vast love with which He loves us (we also being dead to the offenses and the lusts [cp Rom.6:10]), vivifies us together in Christ (in grace are you saved!) and rouses us together and seats us together among the celestials, in Christ Jesus, that, in the oncoming eons, He should be displaying the transcendent riches of His grace in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus” (Eph.2:4-7).
THE GRACE OF GOD IN TRUTH
The words of our Lord in Luke 6:32-35 give us an illuminating illustration of true grace: “If you are loving those loving you, what grace* is it to you? For sinners also are loving those loving them. And if you should be doing good to those doing good to you, what grace is it to you? For sinners also are doing the same. And if you should ever be lending to those from whom you are expecting to get back, what grace is it to you? For sinners also are lending to sinners, that they may get back the equivalent. Moreover, be loving your enemies, and be doing good, and be lending, expecting nothing from them, and your wages will be vast in the heavens, and you will be sons of the Most High, for He is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.”
Grace is that which is not out of works (Rom.11:6), which exists in order to bring joy and blessing to its beneficiaries (cp charis, JOY, “grace”; charisma, JOY-EFFECT, “grace”; chara, JOY, “joy”).
While Grace is not partial (sinfully preferential), it is nonetheless purposeful. Any gracious gift, then, that is not intended for all, through its very purposefulness, necessarily excludes those for whom it is not designed, as much so as would be the case if its motivation were that of partiality.
“Grace” refers to God’s work or action of grace, the work which He does for us and in us, as a favor or gracious gift. As ordinarily used, the expression “God’s grace” is a figure of speech. It is a metonymy (figure of association) for “God’s work of grace,” in reference to whatever gracious gift may be in view. That is, literally, grace is not an action, but the character of an action.
The grace of God is effective, for it, like everything else, only exists according to God’s own intention and purpose (Eph.1: 11; Rom.9:19; Isa.46:10,11). Indeed, it is the saving grace of the Almighty God (Titus 2:11; Rev.11:17).
Consequently, then, since it is effective, grace is a causal entity. This entails the necessary and inevitable existence of its achievements. That is, Grace cannot fail.
Grace is not a wage or requital in response to service or cooperation (Rom.4:4). Instead, it constitutes a favor. Grace acts in order to bless. It does not offer to bless, but actually effects blessing. Therefore, at the deepest level, grace always initiates, out of its own intrinsic virtue. Though it responds to need, it is never under extrinsic obligation to do so and can never be put under such obligation.
Our God is in the heavens: He has done whatsoever He has pleased (Psa.115:3; cp Psa.135:6). Though He loves His creatures and provides for them ideally, He is never beholden to them. “For, who knew the mind of the Lord? or, who became His adviser? or, who gives to Him first, and it will be repaid him? seeing that out of Him and through Him and for Him is all: to Him be the glory for the eons! Amen!” (Rom.11:36).
“The word of the truth of the evangel . . . is bearing fruit and growing . . . [in] you . . . ,” “from the day on which you hear and realized the grace of God in truth” (Col.1:5,6).
IN GRACE, THROUGH FAITH
In light of these prior and related revelations, Paul declares, “For in grace . . . are you saved” (Eph.2:8). We have all that we enjoy in Christ, because we are saved in grace. It is true, in the nature of things, that we are saved by grace, for we are saved by God Who acts in grace in saving us. “Grace,” however, is in the dative case, and this idea is most clearly conveyed in English by the word “in” (or “to,” or “into”). It speaks of the sphere in which salvation occurs, in which we find ourselves, the effectual agency of which having wrought our salvation.
We are about to address the question of the words “through faith,” which we omitted (indicated by the elliptical dots) in our citation from Ephesians 2:8 in the previous paragraph. We did so not because we wish to minimize them or pass them by altogether, but because we wish to show that they do not represent the primary revelation here. The emphasis of this passage is upon God’s grace, not the means which it employs.
FAITH IS A CHANNEL
It is frequently very helpful to simplify a statement into its most basic form, for apart from the wider thought of its complete expression, the basic expression of a thought in itself remains fully true. For example, if we are told that “thus God loves the world, that He gives His only-begotten Son . . . .” (John 3: 16a), it must be so, first of all, that “God loves the world.” He could not love the world “thus” if He did not love the world at all.
Similarly, we could never be saved in grace “through faith,” if it were not first of all true that, in any case, “in grace . . . are you saved.” We have been saved in grace. The revelation of any further particulars concerning our salvation in grace will not change this fact. In most considerations of the phrase, “through faith,” “through” is usually ignored altogether, “faith” alone being given any attention. Yet what does it mean for something to come to us “through” something else? That is, what does “through” mean? “Through” is a preposition which means “by way of.” A synonym for “through” is “by means of.” That which serves as the means through which something else is achieved, is merely a channel. It is the means which the one who achieves the objective in view uses in order to accomplish his purpose. The fact that God uses the faith that we have—which He first of all grants us—in order to effect one aspect or another of the salvation which He Himself thus works in us, does not make faith into some type of contributing factor which ultimately owes its existence to the flesh and not to God.
GOD’S APPROACH PRESENT
Similarly, before giving emphasis to our own pursuit of a righteous walk, we would emphasize God’s righteousness, and seek to perceive its significance as well as its achievements. God’s righteousness is manifested to us “through Jesus Christ’s faith” (Rom.3:22). Even Christ’s faith, His faithful obedience to God even unto the death of the cross, is only the channel of God’s own righteousness. Ultimately, it is the Deity Himself Who alone is our God and Saviour. Our Lord’s sacrifice would have occurred in vain were it not the fulfilling of God’s own counsels (cp Acts 2:23; 3:18; 4:27,28). In speaking of our glorious salvation in grace through faith, Paul would have us know that “this is not out of you; it is God’s approach present, lest anyone should be boasting” (Eph.2:8b,9). We doubt that any are so foolish to suggest that salvation itself is actually man’s creation and that God only makes use of it after it comes to Him “out of us.” This cannot be what the words, “this is not out of you” are denying (Eph.2:8b). Rather, Paul’s point is that it is not due to something from (i.e., “out of”) us that we now find ourselves in Christ and the beneficiaries of God’s saving operations.
Instead, our salvation in grace through faith, is God’s “approach present” (doron, GIVE-GUSH). Our salvation, in its entirety is a present! It is that which God has given us out of His love. Doron is practically the same word as dorea (GIVE-GUSH) and is defined for us by the adjectival form, dorean (GIVE-GUSHed), which means “gratuitously” or “freely.”
This clearly shows that it is completely mistaken to conceive of one’s faith as a means of qualification, a practical warrant entitling its bearer to God’s salvation while placing the Deity under obligation to grant it, as if He had promised to do so on such a basis.
In Greek this special form, doron, served to represent the Hebrew “corban” (korban, Heb. qrbn, NEAR, approach; Mark 7: 11). In the figure, here in Ephesians 2:8b, instead of the sinner bringing a sacrificial gift unto God, God brings a sacrificial gift on behalf of the sinner in order that he may approach unto God! The gift has already been purchased and its character fully determined before we are even told what it is. Any “rejection” of it by ourselves will not change the fact that it is ours. That is, this will be so if we are indeed among God’s chosen ones, which is evidenced not by our understanding of these mature revelations of Ephesians but by our basic faith in Christ’s death and resurrection.
Indeed if we should reject the salvation encompassed in the approach present of God of Ephesians 2:8, it can only be because we really do not believe at all, or because while we do believe in Christ and His sacrificial death, we do not yet believe what God actually says as to the nature of His approach present for us which is presented in this passage. This, of course, will not change the character of God’s gift; it will only mean that, at present, we cannot enjoy what we actually possess, being in the trap of the Adversary, having been caught alive by him, for that one’s will (cf 2 Tim.2:25,26).
THE DOINGS OF GOD
Our salvation is not out of ourselves. We do not possess it because we have done this or that in order to acquire it. Consequently, boasting is debarred (Rom.3:27). This is because we are God’s achievement. “For His achievement are we” (Eph.2: 10a). We are saved because we are God’s achievement. It is just that simple and this is fully the truth.
The word “achievement,” is poiˆma (DO-effect). We are the product of God’s doings. It is only unbelief that will seek to modify this or to explain it away. This unbelief is due to the deceptive influences of the worldly philosophy known as free will. We do not care for the fact that we ourselves, who effect much evil and some good, are the product of God’s own doings.
God, however, is able to operate in us, to will and to work for the sake of His delight (Phil.2:13), so that we think of these matters continually, and in a profitable and uplifting way. As those who are God’s achievement, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, ones which God Himself prepared beforehand, there is no possibility but that we should be walking in them. Indeed, since the subjunctive, “should,” in this case, points us only to God, the good works to which it refers are just as certain to be accomplished as would be the case had the indicative “shall” been used instead.
May God grant us a foretaste of the superabundant and transcendent good works of the future in a measure of good works even now, even if the best of these should be totally eclipsed when compared to our labors to come, during the oncoming eons, when we are conformed to the image of God’s Son and seated together among the celestials (Rom.8:29; Eph.2:6).
“Lest anyone should be boasting”—lest we ourselves should artfully contrive some way to look to and lean upon the flesh—we would glory only in God and in His Christ. We are saved in grace through faith, faith being an assumption, based upon God’s own word, concerning what is already true prior to and apart from our conviction in it. “For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them” (Eph.2:10).
Blessings, Jerry.
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Michael Harrison
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I know very little about Calvin. I know even less about Mr. Armin. I may explore a little more, but it isn't terribly important to. I believe in Jesus ism. Others may have come to the same conclusion as I have in the course of history, but I do not get it from them. I don't even care to compare with whom I am more like. Besdes, given two groups such as these, it is possible that they are either both right, or possibly both wrong. The final day will declare it.
But I think that there is clearly error in the taking it personal that one was created unto heaven from the very beginning. It could be, but if it were, where would they fall who have not yet believed, who hear this? I have personally seen people shrug their shoulders (unbelievers), and say, "If it is to be, it is to be." Then they went on about their life without making a decision for Christ. Therefore they would be guilty of presumption in the opposite direction than those who take it for granted that they are saved automatically.
It is totally dangerous to maintain that position. For if it is so, you can just stay home and not lift a finger that the unsaved may hear.
But scripture says, "How will they hear unless someone is sent?" And
"It pleased God that by the 'foolishness' of preaching, that men should be saved."
If it is true, I don't think that we are supposed to take it for granted, or dwell on it. We can just praise God. But what if we don't say something to someone because we feel that, if they are supposed to be saved, that they will be. What if Jesus comes to us and asks why we did not open our mouth? Could it have depended upon us? And shall we just say that therefore God's will is done if we don't open our mouths?
I believe that we come to the revelation that Jesus is Lord, and that He is in control of everything (we can rest in it), and greater than anyone's will, but I don't think we have license to assume that anything happens without our participation. For we who believe are the channel of His blessing. And it will remain a mystery, but we don't decide for Him, which is what we would be doing if we were to 'assume' certain things. It would be usurping His authority. I don't think that is acceptable.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Betty Louise
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My Pastor asked us last Tuesday if we believed
Calvinism or Arminianism. I told him I did not know what those terms meant. He then asked the class and most of them didn't so he is going to teach on that tomorrow night.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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Michael Harrison
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![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif) Predestination isn't automatic. But some make it personal. They do so by feeling that it is automatic, and that they were elected: They are chosen. However, how do they know that God didn't have a number in mind concerning the redeemed, and a time alloted to fill the quota. In this case, particular people were not chosen, but it becomes a case of "whosoever will?" That means that given the opportunity, and given two different people, that one or the other might get saved, rather than one of them being elected, without question as to which. So, those who hold the position that they are predestinated, probably are presuming. There is a difference.
And to call it automatic, means no cooperation is involved. But I see cooperation all over the pages of the Holy Scriptures. If two peopls were to dance, but one of them sat it out, on a chair, would it be considered dancing - for the two of them? Jesus doesn't dance alone.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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