Christian Message Boards: The Badly Skewed Version

This version of the message boards has closed.
Please click below to go to the new Christian BBS website.

New Message Boards - Click Here

You can still search for the old message here.

| | search | faq | forum home

»	Christian Message Boards » Bible Studies » Exposing False Teaching » The Badly Skewed Version

Author

Topic: The Badly Skewed Version

Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

posted

I have had many teachers throughout my life, both men and women. But I agree that the Pastor should be a man.

Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007 | IP: Logged |

Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175

posted

I don't have a problem with a woman preaching a sermon but the Pastor should be a man. The Pastor who married hubby and I encouraged his wife to preach a couple times of the year. The Holy Spirit was on her and her sermons were a blessing, but both felt that a Pastor should be a man. He was the spiritual leader of the Church and she was his helpmate. Have there been times that women had to step in and do what the men would not do? Yes, I have seen Churches where the men did not step up and teach a Sunday School class and a woman did it. God blessed her and the man who refused to do the job lost out of a blessing. The man should be the leader of the home and the Church.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008 | IP: Logged |

jimbarn
Advanced Member
Member # 7053

posted

Again,Carol you have nailed it.I "ditto" Zeena.
I would add that the reason I cannot accept women preachers is Paul said a preacher and elders were to be the husband of one wife.With the exception of Ca. that is impossible.(we know Ca. problems.)
I have no problem with women holding positions in the church.Paul also said older women were to teach the younger ones.
Keep up the good posts Carol.I always enjoy reading your thoughts.
Jimbarn

A recovering pharasee [Cool]

Posts: 43 | From: Unicoi,Tn. | Registered: Feb 2008 | IP: Logged |

Zeena
Advanced Member
Member # 7223

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Here is another example.

Let's suppose someone asked a question about "Living Water"?

I could look in my concordance, or do a Bible software search, and find every verse that contains the word "water". Then I could post a couple of dozen verses that all talk about water.

Would that help the person who asked the question? No, it would more likely confuse him.

YEA!

quote:
Or, I could simply say that Living Water is the Holy Spirit Who indwells all believers in our Lord Jesus Christ.

That sure does make a whole lotta sense... NOW! [cool_shades]

quote:
John 7:38 - 39 (NLT)

Anyone who believes in me may come and drink! For the Scriptures declare, ‘Rivers of living water will flow from his heart.’” (When he said “living water,” he was speaking of the Spirit, who would be given to everyone believing in him. But the Spirit had not yet been given,£ because Jesus had not yet entered into his glory.)

Would doing that answer his question?

Yes, that would answer his question to his satisfaction, I'm sure! [clap2]

Thanks Carol, you're a good 'teacher' [thumbsup2]

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008 | IP: Logged |

Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

posted

Here is another example.

Let's suppose someone asked a question about "Living Water"?

I could look in my concordance, or do a Bible software search, and find every verse that contains the word "water". Then I could post a couple of dozen verses that all talk about water.

Would that help the person who asked the question? No, it would more likely confuse him.

Or, I could simply say that Living Water is the Holy Spirit Who indwells all believers in our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 7:38 - 39 (NLT)

Anyone who believes in me may come and drink! For the Scriptures declare, ‘Rivers of living water will flow from his heart.’” (When he said “living water,” he was speaking of the Spirit, who would be given to everyone believing in him. But the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet entered into his glory.)

Would doing that answer his question?

Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007 | IP: Logged |

Zeena
Advanced Member
Member # 7223

posted

quote:
False teachers will frequently only cite those passages that agree with their position without ever acknowledging that there are other passages that give a fuller picture.

--> http://www.carm.org/womeninministry/1Tim2_9-15specific.htm

First, he went on to talk about woman pastors, elders and teachers, then went on to put that in line with Federal Headship, which doctrine I hold dear! [Frown]

I'm praying the Lord renew my mind, in Jesus Name.

I've been under this system of theology for quite some time now. It might take a while 'till old ways of thinking, chosing and doing are restored. Yet, with God's Grace it shall be done!

Thanks! [Smile]

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008 | IP: Logged |

Zeena
Advanced Member
Member # 7223

posted

quote:
without adequate regard for the contexts of the individual texts which may indicate differences and nuances

So then, it is only error if it's not in context?

For, oftentimes the Lord brings to mind a host of Scriptures that may be relevant for a 'particular' situation or persons state of being.

Which I then search out and do my very best to make sure they are in context, if at all possible.. [1zhelp]

This is ok, yes?

So it is then ok to post them as is?
Without any explanation on 'my' part, seeing as I'm a sister in Christ?

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008 | IP: Logged |

Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

posted

Zeena,

I am not accusing anyone. I am simply defining the terms.

But have you ever come across a Bible "teacher" who uses this method?

Facing the Proof Text Method by Henry Neufeld

I suggest that the use of proof-texts is a manifestation of laziness and the desire to get something for nothing. People do not wish to spend the time firmly grounding their understanding in what various Bible writers actually teach. They would much rather have a short list of texts that support precisely what they have decided to believe anyhow. Thus, the use of proof-texts tends toward hypocrisy. To the uninformed, the purveyor of proof-texts can appear to be wonderfully informed and a deep scholar of the Bible. In fact, the result of reliance on proof-texts is a moral certainty and overbearing arrogance that is not supported by one's study or learning.

By proof-texting I mean the use of individual scripture texts to produce apparent support for a doctrinal position without adequate regard for the contexts of the individual texts which may indicate differences and nuances. I do not include the use of texts for illustration or the use of texts which are properly taken in context and limited appropriately in what one tries to prove from them. In particular, I'm referring to the creation of entire doctrines which one demands that others believe or commands which one then demands that others obey, taken from a tissue of the words of texts but ignoring the meaning of those texts in their original contexts.

Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007 | IP: Logged |

Zeena
Advanced Member
Member # 7223

posted

I have a question, if I may?

What is the case for Godly woman when it comes to;

quote:
Proof-texting: Repeatedly citing verses from a variety of places in the Bible with no explanation or study.

I mean, really now, please think about this from a Godly woman's perspective for a moment please? [Prayer]

1 Timothy 2:12 ASV
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

What if that said Godly woman is gifted with the Spirit of prophecy [which I honestly believe EVERY born again Christian is, though they might not know it yet, for the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy (Revelation 19:10)]? Should she not simply quote the Word given her in faithfulness according to the Scriptures, allowing the Holy Spirit to speak with the hearts and minds of those to whom the prophecy is directed?

For surely, if she was to expound upon Scripture, adding or taking away meaning, this would be sin, for she is a woman, correct?

You'll note I excluded;

quote:
The passages are cited regardless of their true context or application. This is the "find a verse" method of bible study. I know what I want to say so I go find a verse that I can jack-hammer into my message to support my point.

From that definition, for this is just plain wrong!

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008 | IP: Logged |

TB125
Advanced Member
Member # 2450

posted

Carol,
Thanks for this excellent post. This is the lesson that I have been trying to share in several of my recent posts on the thread of "Sound Teaching". The more that we can avoid these faulty methods of biblical interpretation the more blessings we will each derive from our respective posts and the wisdom of God's word that we seek to share with each other.

--------------------
Bob

Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged |

Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

posted

The Badly Skewed Version

By Keith Gibson

So you wanna be a false teacher. Well one of the first things that you've got to learn is some techniques for getting around the clear teaching of the Word of God and establishing your own unique doctrines.

Seriously, our new series on the "Badly Skewed Version" will document many of the ways that the Bible is being manipulated and distorted.

In this post, I would like to briefly list some of the more common scripture twisting devices employed by cults and false teachers in the hopes that this will enable our readers to become more discerning as they listen to the many teaching ministries within the body of Christ today.

1. Ignoring the Context: We talk about context alot here so I won't spend much time on this one. Context is the key to interpretation. The Bible can literally be made to justify anything if one takes it out of context. For example, in the infamous red book, Bill Gothard surmises that over-attention to clothing may be an attempt to conpensate for an unwanted physical characteristic. He cites Matt. 6:27-28a, "Which of you, by taking thought, can add one cubit to his stature? And why take ye thought for raiment?" Gothard assumes that many of Jesus's disciples were short. Now, Gothard’s point may be good psychology and may even be true but it has nothing to do with this passage which context demonstrates is clearly teaching about the futility of worry.

2. Confused Definition: Words take on different connotations and meanings depending on their usage. In addition, words change meaning over time. For instance if one were to listen to music from the early 20th century and pour contemporary meaning into the word "gay" every time it appears in songs, one could erroneously conclude that the music was celebrating homosexuality. Not to pick on Bill Gothard (though he's an easy target since he seems to go out of his way to use all of these techniques) but in the Basic Seminar Textbook on page 20, he writes, "Correct decisions are based on faith; that is, visualizing what God intends to do. 'Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.' (Romans 14:23)". Most Christians will recognize immediately that this is not the meaning of faith in this passage or any other in the Bible. Examples of this are literally rampant. Watch for this especially among teachers who insist on using the KJV. Language has changed a great deal since the KJV was translated. Make sure the teacher is defining words as they would have been at the time of the translation.

3. Selective Citation: The Bible is a very balanced book in its presentation of truth. False teachers will frequently only cite those passages that agree with their position without ever acknowledging that there are other passages that give a fuller picture. Since, we're on a roll with Gothard, let's take a look at his Men's Manual. In this book, Gothard spends multiple pages advancing the idea that Christians should never incur debt. He cites multiple passages about the dangers of debt but never references a single passage of the many that command God's people to loan to those in need. This is not a fair treatment of the subject.

4. Faulty Citation: Here the teacher simply alters the text during citation in order to change the meaning. He/she knows that most people won't ever look the verse up. The Maharishi Mahest Yogi cites Psalm 46:10 as, "Be still and know that you are god." JW's insert the word "other" into the text at Col. 1:15-16 in order to advance the idea that Jesus was the first creation of Jehovah.

5. Partial Citation: As the name indicates, the scripture is manipulated simply by leaving part of the verse out so as to alter the meaning. Take careful note whenever you see a teacher who repeatedly uses "…" in writing. Back to Gothard, the original version of "Basic Care Bulletin 11" (it has been rewritten) which discusses the necessity of circumcision for all Christian males (a thoroughly unbiblical premise) only partially cites Acts 16:3 and Romans 3:1-2 to make them appear to support an ongoing mandate concerning circumcision. Page 5 reads, "Following the settling of this question, Paul affirmed the value and practice of circumcision by carrying it out on Timothy. Timothy was invited to minister with Paul, but first Paul '…took and circumcised him…' (Acts 16:3). Paul also affirmed the many advantages of circumcision in his letter to the Christinas in Rome: 'What advantage then hath the Jew? Or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way' (Romans 3:1-2)" [Emphasis in the original].

6. Collapsing Contexts: Just because two verses contain a common word does not mean that they are speaking about the same thing. At a pastor's conference Bill Gothard discussed the supposed light that people see in the eyes of the young people involved in his ministry. He stated approximately the following, "Jesus said the light of the body is the eye and let your light shine before men." Now, the only thing these two verses have in common is the word "light".

7. Literalizing a figure of speech: The Bible uses a number of rhetorical and literary devices including, but not limited to, hyperbole, metaphor, simile and personification. These statements are not meant literally. God does not have feathers or wings. The trees of the field will not really clap their hands. An example of this error (and this is another teacher that commits many) is in Henry Wright's book, "A More Excellent Way". He writes, "Do you know what the Bible says is the cause of non-menopausal osteoporosis? I’ll give it to you-envy and jealousy are the cause of rotting of the bones. 'A sound heart is the life of the flesh; but envy the rottenness of the bones.' Proverbs 14:30"

8. Overstating a metaphor: When the Bible uses a figure of speech it is meant to make a limited point. For instance, when Jesus declared, "I am the door", He was not stating that everything true of a door is also true of Him. Jesus is not made of wood. He is not rectangular. etc. But I have seen teachers take statements like this one in Proverbs, "Go to the ant you sluggard" and discover 15 things we are to imitate about ants. In like manner, Gothard's Basic Care Manual 2, on page 21, does this with John 5:53-58 to prove that we must only eat whole grain bread. "Perhaps the most important relationship which Christ made between Himself and bread is the need for accepting the whole essence of both. The heart of the grain is the wheat germ and the outer shell is the bran. 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, you have no life in you…For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed…so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is the bread which came down from heaven….(John 6:53-58)". To reduce this passage declaring our Lord's supreme sacrifice and our need to receive it, to a discussion about bread is horrific.

9. Overstating an Example: Just because a certain thing happened a certain way in scripture at one point, does not mean that this is a divine principle and will occur the same way every time. For instance, the Bible indicates that some sickness is caused by personal sin. But the Bible does not indicate that all sickness is caused by personal sin.

10. Confusing what the Bible reports with what it mandates: The Bible reports the sinful decisions of men. This is not justification for repeating their errors. Even great men of faith made mistakes. Mormon fundamentalists will frequently refer to the passages of polygamy in the Old Testament as justification for the continued practice.

11. Proof-texting: Repeatedly citing verses from a variety of places in the Bible with no explanation or study. The passages are cited regardless of their true context or application. This is the "find a verse" method of bible study. I know what I want to say so I go find a verse that I can jack-hammer into my message to support my point.

12. Mystical Interpretations: This is the seeing behind the words so common in prophetic circles. Paul Keith Davis takes the story of Joseph preparing for the famine by storing 1/5 of the crops each year as a mandate that the church in particular "storehouse cities" can demand in the spirit the souls of 1/5 of the population of their region.

13. Speculative Interpretations: The Bible tells us what we need to know but does not answer all of our curiosity. Scripture twisters fill in the gaps. Much, if not all, of the contemporary teaching on spiritual warfare comes from speculative approaches to passages and ends up delving into areas where the Bible has not given specific and clear teaching.

We could give many more examples but this post is already much longer than many will want to read.

The Word of God is holy. It demands care and respect. It must be approached properly if one is to avoid the "Badly Skewed Version".

http://signofjonah.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/biblical-twister-techniques-for-the-bsv/

Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007 | IP: Logged |

Printer-friendly view of this topic

New Message Boards - Click Here