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Topic: I've been shopping!
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Michael Harrison
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posted
|Here is a choice! Rom 7:25 "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." It is either or.
Rom 7:20 "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." |This is because you are not trusting Him for His provision. It is not a condemnation to do it as though you cannot escape it. That is not what Paul is saying. Else John would not say, "If you walk in the light as He is in the light." For one cannot 'walk in the light and be in darkness also.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."|Grace to help means 'deliverance'. It means the power of a resurrected life. To fail, and to sin is not the resurrected life. Besides the passage in 1st John, these are the most quoted scriptures to justify imperfection as though one is necessarily bound to it.
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
My works are not perfect before God, and while I cannot perfect myself without God -I certainly have work to do toward that end.
As he tell the Sardis church -and others...
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
I do not believe God does FOR us -requiring nothing of us -but that God makes us ABLE TO DO -and if we do not attempt to do we make that worthless. That is quite scripturally correct.
You cannot perfect yourself with - or without God. You cannot 'improve' yourself. Trying would in itself be sin. And you are right! You do not believe that God does for us. But that is what Paul wants you and every believer to understand. It is His work, and not ours, that counts.
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Isaiah
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enslavement being implied by being sold under...
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
and in bondage Gal 4:3
and I do not believe God said I AM perfect ... though I think I know what you are saying...
My works are not perfect before God, and while I cannot perfect myself without God -I certainly have work to do toward that end.
As he tell the Sardis church -and others...
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
I do not believe God does FOR us -requiring nothing of us -but that God makes us ABLE TO DO -and if we do not attempt to do we make that worthless. That is quite scripturally correct.
s'all I'm sayin
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Michael Harrison
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When I say as I did above:
"But
-of him-
-are ye-
it is to emphasize that portion of the intended meaning. "But OF Him - you are, [That is, by His 'doing' you are, or therefore consist of what] [as you are being] in [within] Christ Jesus, who of[by] God is made unto us [made manifest in us, or to us] wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:"(1Co 1:30 ). He is your wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption. You sup with Him, and you do not 'do' what He is made unto you. You thank and praise Him, and you will walk in it. This is the Love of God. Otherwise you are none of His.
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Michael Harrison
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Arguing? No, don't believe the devil. Ahm not! I'm just trying to make a point. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
quote:
I know I'm certainly not perfect yet -but grow in knowledge and so ability to do what is right in his eyes, as I have to learn before I am able to do. He's been righteous forever -I was born a slave to sin -maybe I'm just a slow learner.
God said that you are perfect! He performs what He says! If He is waiting on you to 'do' what you are able, He will wait forever.
Also, scripture says that you are not a slave to sin. Why do you want to believe that you are? (Just pure scripture here.)
Now, when I say that He performs it, you don't just say to yourself that you are 'acceptable' as you are in the state of 'poor performance' which is a condition of your sinful nature. You should experience what He performs. This is the Gospel. This is the reason that He shed His blood.
(When writing like this, it is hard not to sound harsh or critical. The devil does this with the word. He makes it to sound judgmental to the reader. But the voice of the author behind the words, is pure love. The one who interferes makes it to sound different to the hearer than it really is.)
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Isaiah
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Didn't say God wasn't fully grown -said that he does not change -HE does not grow in righteousness -WE do -merely said he becomes more than what he was -not better -I know I'm certainly not perfect yet -but grow in knowledge and so ability to do what is right in his eyes, as I have to learn before I am able to do. He's been righteous forever -I was born a slave to sin -maybe I'm just a slow learner.
Anyway -we seem to be talking about different things altogether -or maybe I'm not certain what you are trying to say -but this is turning to argument.
Peace. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Michael Harrison
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Nice spill, however, NO! God is fullly grown. You reveal your understanding of this upon which you have elaborated, but not the revelation. There is something more blessed.
Does it say that you are being sanctified little by little, and made wiser by the day? Does it say that you are redeemed a little at a time as each hour passes? No! It says that,
"But
-of him-
-are ye-
....in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:"(1Co 1:30 ).
If He is made unto you this, the only thing that grows is "Belief," which can be complete in the instant the heart believes, and puts down toys.
"Once I spake as a child, but when I matured I...."
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Isaiah
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Y E S !
(emphasis mine)
2Co 9:8 And GOD IS ABLE to make all grace abound toward you; THAT YE, always having all sufficiency in all things, MAY ABOUND TO EVERY GOOD WORK:
2Co 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS remaineth forever.
2Co 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and INCREASE the fruits of YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS;)
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may GROW UP INTO HIM in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But GROW in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen.
1Jo 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, BECAUSE WE KEEP his commandments, and DO THOSE THINGS that are pleasing in his sight.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, THE MAN THAT DOETH THEM SHALL LIVE IN THEM.
and YES -GOD GROWS!! HE HAS AND ALWAYS WILL INCREASE -HE DOES NOT CHANGE IN NATURE, BUT HE DOES BECOME MORE! FOREVER!!! AND WE IN HIM -AND HIM IN US!!!!!!!! THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!
Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, INCREASETH WITH THE INCREASE OF GOD.
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
THE VERY PURPOSE OF OUR EXISTENCE IS SO THAT GOD MAY INCREASE!!!!!!!!!!!! He has made himself more than he was before he made us -by making us! He formed us for HIS OWN HABITATION! He will make us like his Son -the firstborn of MANY!
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (though certainly subject to the Father and Christ -this is not blasphemy)
You say that it is God's righteousness in us -not our own -and I do not disagree -but in this certainly you agree that God is increasing!
Yet it is certainly true that...
Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
Still -Him increasing is EVIDENT by our putting forth effort to obey him! OUR WILLING and STRIVING to OBEY him is even of him -not us! It is not naturally in us!
Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
2Ti 2:5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
2Ti 2:6 The husbandman that laboreth must be first partaker of the fruits.
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
YOU have to DO it. Your will can be the cause of God NOT working through you. WE have to put forth effort to PUT AWAY sin so that OUR SINS do not cut us off from God.
Eph 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbor: for we are members one of another....Eph 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God....
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
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Michael Harrison
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I speak not of myself! I speak for edification of the hearer. ![[Wink]](wink.gif) So the question is, do you dissagree with me, persay?
I don't remember criticizing Paul Washer. Now, I may have said something that he disagrees with in his sermons. I do not criticize Paul Washer. He has a valid message, with a valid heart in the message.
But what one thinks that they understand about growing, will come out in the wash. And scripture declares it, if one would read the way it is written. You have what He has done, or you either have to work for it, or grow into it. Both are false.
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becauseHElives
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Michael, Paul Washer is speaking the TRUTH about Yahshua's Gospel ...
Michael, if you can't see that you are in serious trouble with discernment.
and for you to say the Christian walk is not about growth defies everything the scriptures teach.
take the parable of the sower...growth
then take the Apostle Paul's words....As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: ...
Michael, do you think Leonard Ravenhill understood the Gospel?
Leonard Ravenhill thought Paul Washer was right on.
Just for grins who would you point me to in todays Church that is preaching TRUTH?
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
We cannot go from our sinful nature to God's perfect nature in one day -it is a process.
Does God grow? Is He perfect already, or must He grow into it? YOu don't grow into what He is to you, through His shed blood on the Cross.
Does it say that you are being sanctified little by little, and made wiser by the day? Does it say that you are redeemed a little at a time as each hour passes? No! It says that, "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:"(1Co 1:30 ). If He is made unto you this, the only thing that grows is "Belief," which can be complete in an instant.
!
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Michael Harrison
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You cannot keep them. No amount of effort will mean anything. Have you not heard that your righteousness is as filthy rags? This is not to say that you cannot be Holy; and you do not get there by a process of laboring to acheieve! At your very best you will have to admit that you are set back. Then you basically have to start over, and this is continual.
Your righteousness is as filthy rags. This means your efforts. Therefore your efforts are not what matter!!! You are missing the meat of the truth, and meat belongeth to those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil. You can have the right behavior. It is a gift.
If you are separate from Him, trying from without to please Him, you can only do so by works (dead works). The irony is, you cannot please Him this way, but one perpetually tries for some reason.
Look at Jesus when He was in the boat on the storm tossed sea. The desciples, who were fishermen, who were used to the sea were sore afraid. But Jesus was at rest in confidence of who the Father was to Him. The desciples didn't get it yet! It is the same here. Who He is to you makes the difference whether you are what HE intends you to be. It's in the who and what of it. Who He is to you is not according your trying. When your heart is right, you will not commit the sin of trying.
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Isaiah
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You most certainly should get better at keeping the commandments, as your understanding of them should grow -they are not as simple as they first seem -and what once you did not see as sin you will as your understanding grows. Sin is spiritual -without his spirit one cannot fully understand what they mean -much less keep them in spirit and truth. God said we must master sin -that means getting better at keeping his commandments.
1Co 13:9 Now we know by part and we prophesy by part.
1Co 13:10 But when the perfect [or, complete] comes, then the [thing] by part [fig., which is partial] will become useless.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I was speaking as a child, I was thinking as a child, I was reasoning as a child; but when I have become a man, I have put away the [things] of the child.
1Co 13:12 For we now see by means of a mirror by reflection [fig., indirectly], but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I also was known.
We cannot go from our sinful nature to God's perfect nature in one day -it is a process.
For instance.... ancient Israel had the commandment "thou shalt not kill" -and they were doing well if they didn't actually take a life -but Christ taught a deeper spiritual meaning -so that one who simply did not take a life was still subject to death if they had murder in their heart, etc.....
anyway -I hope I don't seem rude -don't mean to be -or 'holier than thou' -I'm certainly not -It's good to talk about this stuff.
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Michael Harrison
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Understanding of scripture comes from Jesus revealing to you what it means to put Him first. The rest of the time, before this happens, one strives to understand the scriptures while missing the boat. Be in the boat to float. My Joy!
Jesus!
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
What does this mean? become rich? -or take his spirit and become more perfect -as in better at keeping his commandments and going above and beyond them -through striving.
You don't become 'better' at keeping His commandments. You keep them or you don't! You are reproved if you are on the 'don't' side, blessed on the high side.
The man with only one talent didn't "increase with the increase of God." (Col 2:19) He did not accept 'more' of God: of who He is, and what He wanted to be to the maan. It's what He wants to be to you that matters!!!
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Isaiah
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Luk 19:12 He said therefore, "A nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and then return.
Luk 19:13 Calling ten of his servants, he gave them ten minas, and said to them, 'Engage in business until I come.'
Luk 19:14 But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We do not want this man to reign over us.'
Luk 19:15 When he returned, having received the kingdom, he ordered these servants to whom he had given the money to be called to him, that he might know what they had gained by doing business.
Luk 19:16 The first came before him, saying, 'Lord, your mina has made ten minas more.'
Luk 19:17 And he said to him, 'Well done, good servant! Because you have been faithful in a very little, you shall have authority over ten cities.'
Luk 19:18 And the second came, saying, 'Lord, your mina has made five minas.'
Luk 19:19 And he said to him, 'And you are to be over five cities.'
Luk 19:20 Then another came, saying, 'Lord, here is your mina, which I kept laid away in a handkerchief;
Luk 19:21 for I was afraid of you, because you are a severe man. You take what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.'
Luk 19:22 He said to him, 'I will condemn you with your own words, you wicked servant! You knew that I was a severe man, taking what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow?
Luk 19:23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, and at my coming I might have collected it with interest?'
Luk 19:24 And he said to those who stood by, 'Take the mina from him, and give it to the one who has the ten minas.'
Luk 19:25 And they said to him, 'Lord, he has ten minas!'
Luk 19:26 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
Luk 19:27 But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.'"
What does this mean? become rich? -or take his spirit and become more perfect -as in better at keeping his commandments and going above and beyond them -through striving.
Perhaps it would be more understandable to say that God requires that you NOT do certain things in order to receive life -but the commandments are far mar than what we ought not do -and only the beginnings of what we should do!
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
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lonlesol
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quote:
Informative no? I was blessed by that slice of your life. I see it also as a prayer. He hears you! Amen.
I know of no other way of getting to a point than by talking about my own experiences...I am thankful to the Lord that this came as a blessing to you...Praise the Lord!...you have a kind heart Michael Harrison... ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
I apologize to the ones that might not agree with my way of sharing and perhaps would it be best for everyone for now on if I stopped posting and just read the various topics on this board... ![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif)
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Michael Harrison
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Informative no? I was blessed by that slice of your life. I see it also as a prayer. He hears you! Amen.
Those three videos by Washer are profound. They are emotional, so the site where I pulled them from went so far as to say it was works. Nevertheless, I believe that Washer is speaking the heart of God.
I was led to the Lord by a missionary. I thought all of my life about being a missionary. What he says about the life of those people over there touches me to the uttermost. His comparison to the USA is very valuable also. We are weak over here.
The second video that i posted, I believe that everyone should watch a few times. It is moving.
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lonlesol
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quote:
If you look at it like you have to do works you need to reevaluate where you stand with Jesus. If you know and love Him what you do for Him is done because you love Him.
I completely agree, and No, I do NOT do works because I Have to. That is the whole point I have tried to make earlier...I do it because I WANT to...read again what I previously said:
quote:
BECAUSE God gives you salvation, you WANT to do good works...I wouldn't say that it is something that you HAVE to do, although maybe it is, I don't know, but rather something that you ENJOY doing because you WANT to OBEY God?...
Maybe have I been missunderstood because my English isn't good enough for me to explain it any better?
Ok, I will try...but I hope that my explanation won't sound like it is all about 'me me me' oonce again...I have been accused of this before...
At the residence where I now work, I talk about Jesus all the time with the residents...I do it because I wish for them to know Jesus too...most of them pray the rosary over and over as if their very breath depended on it...now that is works...especially if you look at the behavior that some of them have...
One resident in particular has hit me and kick me a few times. And yet, I continue on being gentle with him no matter what. I tell him that I love him and that I forgive him for doing such things...the man was diagnosed being maniaco-depressive some time ago.
Some of the residents keep asking the other employees when I will be coming back to work when I have a day off because I am the one they want to have to take care of them...some go as far as saying that there is something 'special' about me...
There is this other resident. She is one nasty lady for sure and yet she says that she loves and knows Jesus. Almost after each meal, she reads aloud John 3:16 to one resident in particular that is on stage 4 with Alzheimer's disease. But the way she does it makes no sense. If other residents around her don't keep quiet while she is reciting the verse, she will scream it out and get mad at them...
This same lady has screamed at me, she has hit me, she has bit me and pushed me just because I do the job that my boss expects me to do...even my boss doesn't understand why I keep forgiving this lady...a few months earlier, my boss had given a month's notice to this lady, she was to find another place to live at the end of the month but I convinced my boss to not kick her out...the lady has shown some improvement since then...
As for my daughter, I love her so very much, I always have and always will but unfortunately, I didn't always show her in the past like I should have...that was my biggest mistake...I have repented of that but it is too late, she is now gone... Maybe I was too strict with her, there were things that I wouldn't permit her to do because she wanted to grow up too fast...I have tried reasonning with her but it obviously didn't work...
The problem is that she is the one that doesn't want to see me anymore. She has decided to go live with her father because he lets her do pretty much what she wants to do...I cannot force her in any way...they have both told me the day they left that they have made their decision...my daughter was only 14 years old at the time. All she wanted was to be free to do whatever she wanted, so she took the easy way out!...
I have been accused of being a Mormon and a Jehovah Witness by some members of his side of the family... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ...I have tried in the past to explain to my husband that Jesus is Not a religion but rather the Way to live and if we don't obey His commandments, there will be no eternal life...
quote:
Did you like the videos?
Yes, absolutely!...among other things, there is something that Paul Washer says in one of his sermons that goes like this:
''People come to me all the time and say, I have a new relationship with God!...then I say, well do you have a new relationship with sin? because if you don't have a new relationship with sin, you don't have a new relationship with God.''
This is soooo true!... ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
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KnowHim
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If you look at it like you have to do works you need to reevaluate where you stand with Jesus. If you know and love Him what you do for Him is done because you love Him.
I love my children and I sure don't look had things I do for them as work. I just do it because of who they are.
If you feel you are working and trying to earn your way to heaven, then you must have missed out on coming to know Jesus Christ and only found religion.
Jesus said:
Matthew 11:28
"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
Yes I am sure that the modern day religious machine has many people working for them and tries to put people into bondage. But unless people wake up and see it is not about religion but about know Jesus Christ they will be trying to please the religious people that drive the religious machine and miss out on knowing Jesus Christ.
Noah did not build the ark because he had to but because he wanted to please the Lord. So it was his lifes work. When you come to know the Lord and He is number one in your life. Then your very existence will be to please Him and it will not seem like work, but just life. Yes life itself is work and has many challenge's. But what we do does in no way pay for our salvation, that was done ONLY by Jesus Christ.
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by lonlesol:
KnowHim (David, right?...you changed your username?)......I have listened to those FAITH WITHOUT DEEDS tracks before...I have also seen the entire version of that video from Paul Washer's teaching...
Yes KnowHim = David I use KnowHim on most of the places I post.
Did you like the videos?
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lonlesol
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I see your point Isaiah...
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Isaiah
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I say it is something you HAVE to do -because if you don't, you won't receive life!
You can and should definitely enjoy that which is required of you in order to receive life. His commandments are not grievous. 1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. They just create a world which is wonderful, that's all!
Works don't earn anything -but works are required before God will give the gift of life! -there is a huge difference. Even before baptism we are told to repent -that means works -or we will certainly not receive the free gift of his spirit!
It is not to be a burden, but a joy!
I was merely pointing out that if we become complacent it won't be a joy to do -because we will cease to do what we believe is not expected of us!
Luke 10:25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
...........
Luke 18: 18And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
(ETC!!!!!)
21And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
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Luke 6:46And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
.............
I'm just saying you have to do stuff!
Luke 19:26
"He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away.
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lonlesol
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quote:
You indeed DO have to work for salvation -it's just that God does not HAVE TO give you salvation FOR your works -by his grace he gives it!!!!!!!!!
BECAUSE God gives you salvation, you WANT to do good works...I wouldn't say that it is something that you HAVE to do, although maybe it is, I don't know, but rather something that you ENJOY doing because you WANT to OBEY God?...
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lonlesol
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quote:
May I enjoin Him in prayer on your behalf, that you will be insulated from it (I know that it has been a while already), that you will see through His eyes, cause that'll help, and that you will know His hope?
Sure, go ahead...but I want to make this crystal clear for anyone that may think otherwise...so I will repeat again, I am NOT having a pity-party over my poor little self, at least, not anymore, not like I used to when this whole mess started...I just get frustrated sometimes with the situation...but I will eventually get over it and move on for good...I now have a court date set for the end of May to finalize this divorce...so a little worldly justice from the judge should hopefully come my way at least...it has been dragging long enough!...As for my daughter, well, I can't do anything else but pray for her salvation since she wont even talk to me anymore...
KnowHim (David, right?...you changed your username?)......I have listened to those FAITH WITHOUT DEEDS tracks before...I have also seen the entire version of that video from Paul Washer's teaching...
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Isaiah
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posted
Perhaps off the subject..but...
Grace v. Works............
Works can not earn salvation.
Salvation is a gift from God.
However... God will not give this gift to one who does not do good works.
We could do good works all our life -but our righteousness is as filthy rags to God. If we have HIS true righteousness, it is also a gift from him and earns nothing -does not cause salvation!
Yet -if we do not strive to obey -and that means in thought and deed -he will certainly not give us freely of salvation!
Even what we had to begin would be taken away!
You indeed DO have to work for salvation -it's just that God does not HAVE TO give you salvation FOR your works -by his grace he gives it!!!!!!!!!
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
I've been shopping around and I found this comment followed by these videos. What do you think of this comment in relation to these videos?
quote:
Here is a false prophet that I know - I met him here in rural missouri as he was close friends with our old church that Bob and I both attended (spoke there - you weren't there Bob). Notice how subtle his message is - and how good his presentation is. But every message of his is JUST LIKE THIS ONE. His focus is not the Gospel - it's WORKS!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VOPsp0jkGqA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OY6F0pkArds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPIi--oKm1E
Just listened to this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPIi--oKm1E
Paul Washer is a good preacher who teaches the truth. I know a lot of people will not like Him as he does not tickle ears.
Everyone needs to listen to this one and think about it!
.
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KnowHim
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Don't know if you have ever watched crosstv.com but the below audio message are very, very good.
FAITH WITHOUT DEEDS - Part 1
Description: Although skeptical people will swear that there are contradictions in the Bible, there are none! But there ARE some paradoxes.Paradox: God told Noah to build an ark at a time when rain had never fallen on the earth. We think Noah's story provides the perfect parallel and visual backdrop for a teaching based on a sermon from the great 18th century Puritan scholar: Jonathan Edwards. It's on one of Scripture's other great paradoxes: how we cannot be saved by works, yet without works, we cannot truly be saved.
Click here to listen to part 1.
Part 2
Part 3
![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif)
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Michael Harrison
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posted
I feel your pain lonesol. A telephone pole punch in the stomach is never any fun. May I enjoin Him in prayer on your behalf, that you will be insulated from it (I know that it has been a while already), that you will see through His eyes, cause that'll help, and that you will know His hope?
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lonlesol
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posted
My husband is the one that said all these things to me in front of my Pastor...a few months later, he took off with another woman and our daughter that he manipulated enough that she turned against me...
Now you may ask yourself...is this person having a pity-party because of what happened to her?...the answer is NO, I am not...I have forgiven him in my heart and unfortunately for him, unless he repents, he will get what he deserves...
I pray that he does repent and gets to know and accept the Truth...
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Michael Harrison
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posted
|I getcha! But there is a plethora of experience out there. Where you mention someone like this who said the sinners prayer, if he had done so out of a sincere heart, he would have pursued Jesus further. Or, Jesus would pursue Him - ninety and nine, until he came around. But his prayer was artificial. Perhaps he said it out of obligation to someone, but not out out of obligation to Christ.
|But there are those who pray sincerely and recognize a change. Nevertheless satan is around to confound the mind and bring doubt. Since without faith it is impossible to please God, and if he begins to doubt, no water comes. He doesn't grow.
Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it,
....and bring forth fruit with patience.
|If there is anything under heaven that we are to 'do', it is to perservere. Perservere, for the fear of God, until it is rewarded.
Luk 11:7 And he from within shall answer and say, Trouble me not: the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give thee.
Luk 11:8 I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth.
|I know of nothing that I can prescribe that a person is to 'do' except for this. Once one has discovered in himself to have faith in the fact that He (Jesus) has done, and is doing, then the one knows that he is included in this provision, and is a beneficiary.
Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it,
....and bring forth fruit with patience.
|Do you notice here the expressions, good heart, and keep it? What do they find out with patience?
|Hearing, believing, having! ...and He will confirm it to you. Though faith is in the fact, with patience, He will confirm it to you.
|When someone such as you have described says what they say, I have concluded that they are using this to fend off those who would preach to them. Moreover, I feel that that is the reason why some churches are filled with dead people. They can use their affiliation to fend off people who would trouble them with the truth. They are basically hiding from it.
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lonlesol
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posted
Michael...
By ''works'' I do not mean that we have to work to obtain salvation. God gives us this gift, we cannot obtain salvation by ourselves even if we tried, it is impossible...
What I am talking about is our ''behavior'' towards others and towards God's Word...it says a lot about one's character...
If I say that I am a Christian and I still live my life continuing on sinning each and every day and it shows that I do not care whether I hurt others or not, and that I never acknowledge my accountability for my actions, then, there is obviously something wrong there...
I personally know someone that told me once in front of my Pastor that can testify to this, that he believes he is a Christian because he believes and has been taught when he was younger that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. He also said that he is not ready and not interested at all in reading and studying the Bible. He doesn't believe that the Bible was inspired to man by God Himself, and he says that he doesn't need it. He said that he is not ready to commit his life to Jesus and wont go to Church...so what he says and what he does every day shows how lost he really is...according to him, I am a fool for wanting to keep on reading and studying the Bible...
Just because someone said the sinner's prayer when they were younger does not mean that they are actually saved.......that is what I consider being useless ''works'' done by ourselves, works that are taught by the Catholic church...
oneinchrist wrote this (it matches pretty much with what I said above)...I completely agree with him...:
Simply acknowledging the guilt of sin without forsaking sin is not true repentance. Confessing Jesus is Lord without actually living our lives devoted to His Lordship is hypocrisy. The real test is the test of our committment to the Lord Jesus.
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Michael Harrison
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I was focusing on the part where the author of the quote said that this person was a false prophet, and not thinking about the works issue.
Concerning your statement: Faith results in His working. Perhaps I may bring up this teaching once again:
http://path2prayer.com/article.php?id=273
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