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Author Topic: Once saved!
Michael Harrison
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QuoteumOn! You can never lose your salvation, not ever!

waynemlj QuotemOff!

Heb 3:12~14 "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
For we are made partakers of Christ,

if we hold the beginning of our confidence

stedfast unto the end;"


[Cross] If you have an evil heart of unbelief, in 'departing' from the Living God, say ye that ye remain therefore saved?

1Pe 4:17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

[Cross] Who are they who obey not the gospel of God? Does this refer to sinners, or could it mean believers? Check out the next verse.

1Pe 4:18 "And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"

2Pe 1:8 "For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
2Pe 1:9 "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins."
2Pe 1:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure:
for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

2Pe 1:11 "For so an entrance

shall be ministered unto you

abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

[Cross] Why would you need to worry about anything whatsoever if you cannot lose it?

2Pe 2:20 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein,

and overcome,

the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.


[Cross] Check out that last verse. The last state of them is worse than before when they knew Christ.

There is motivation to escape the devil and run into the arms of Christ, rather than take anything for granted, and have the wool pulled over your eyes. If you are out of relationship, you lose, just like in the Garden of Eden.

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Michael Harrison
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Dear waynemlj: In response to your private e-mail, although I like to listen to John Mc, and occasionally do, I am confident that he will stand corrected, if only he would receive it.

~~~~~~~~~~~ [Prayer] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


QuoteOn! The Holy Spirit will live the Law in and through you. All you have to do is meditate on His Word day and night and grow in His wonderful GRACE! QuoteOff!

This is a very good comment by you, however, what is done, is done, and it doesn't even depend upon my meditating, per se. What is fact -is fact! Your part, and mine, is to believe, and receive. We are to place faith in the finished work.

A mixture of what? I have preached in these posts that you are to keep the Ten Commandments; and that you cannot. Yet, because of Jesus, YOU CAN; else you are not reconciled experientially. You cannot keep them by trying. You can keep them by Jesus. By Jesus Christ, you can, else He died for naught.

Sanctification begins the moment you believe unto it. It is complete. It is a fact, and my part is to believe, and receive. I call it HAVE. Scripture calls it HAVE, as; to be had by believing. Grace accomplishes it.

[Wink] Thank you however, for your concern!

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oneinchrist
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Hi IAAFOTL,
LOL, how's it goin? I haven't heard from you in a while. I am happy to hear from you again. Praise God for the unity in the faith of Jesus. Amen.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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IAAFOTL
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Amen Daniel. The Holy Ghost will give us (those in Christ) the strength to overcome temptations once we choose to obey God rather than man or sin, but we still have to choose.


quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Hi Waynemlj,
It's nice to meet you. If I may, I would like to elaborate on your post.

In God's sovereignty He allows man the freedom to choose whom he is going to obey. Is he going to obey the voice of God or the voice of the world? I would like to stress that even believers in Jesus Christ are still left with that choice. They do not just automatically go into an "obeying the Ten Commandments" mode.

So the distinct difference between a true believer in Jesus Christ and a false believer (or non-believing atheist) is that true believers are motivated by a genuine faith in a loving and caring God (who sees to our best interest; ex: 10 Commandments, gospel message) and true believers embrace (and don't let go of) the Hope of God in the resurrection to eternal life.

With love in Christ, Daniel



--------------------
Study to show yourself approved, a workman unto God who needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
_ ____ _
My screen name stands for "I am a Friend of The Lord's"

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oneinchrist
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Hi Waynemlj,
It's nice to meet you. If I may, I would like to elaborate on your post.

In God's sovereignty He allows man the freedom to choose whom he is going to obey. Is he going to obey the voice of God or the voice of the world? I would like to stress that even believers in Jesus Christ are still left with that choice. They do not just automatically go into an "obeying the Ten Commandments" mode.

So the distinct difference between a true believer in Jesus Christ and a false believer (or non-believing atheist) is that true believers are motivated by a genuine faith in a loving and caring God (who sees to our best interest; ex: 10 Commandments, gospel message) and true believers embrace (and don't let go of) the Hope of God in the resurrection to eternal life.

As a point of interest I would like to add that unbelievers can even obey some of the Ten Commandments, so it would not necessarily be that accurate to say that only believers can obey.
Of course we know that the truth of the matter is ...is that it is all vanity without genuine repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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waynemlj
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
[Bible]

The pouring out of God's spirit is so that we can be not under the law -by obeying it in spirit and truth. It is not an excuse to disregard any part of it -all ten commandments are still valid -no matter what men say.

[It sounds like there is a contradiction, but..... If the pouring out of the Spirit is so that we can not be under law, yet we are not to disregard any part of it i.e. such as 10 Commandments, how then is it kept? For it is, else we disregard it, which would contradict! Yet it does not.]

All men sin -if we say we do not we lie -but we must overcome it every day -until God removes it from us completely.

[ If we overcome sin, then we do not abide in it. Where then is the lie? Else, what good is overcoming?
1Jn 5:4 "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith (our 'having' according to His doing, reconciliation)." ]

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

[Jesus is the fulfillment of the law. He is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, redemption, sanctification. By Jesus we do not transgress the law, unless our faith is in the wrong concept, or things. Proper faith entirely makes the difference, not our contribution by good intentions, which are completely sinful, therefore utterly failed.]

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[Exactamunde! God forbid! No fooling. If Jesus delivers you and you don't walk in it, what can we say then? Don't explain it to me. Explain it to Him.]

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

[Therefore we have to transgress Jesus to sin. Yet if we yield to Him, we are delivered from it by His life, as long as we are trusting and yielding (it goes deep, but you can get it). By His life, by His living we rise above it. Else our faith is in vain, and tradition (literally) is all that we have to sustain us.]

Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[Works are the fruit of faith, evidence, not something that we do to accomplish anything for God. Those are 'dead', because we are incapable of 'producing' them. Only He can. Therefore, works are verification of faith, not something we accomplish by our willingness.]

We are not kept from the tree of life. Only unbelief does it. He died to provide access. We love the darkness and refuse access! Quit loving the darkness and come into the light! Quit defying Him. [dance]

Hi Michel Harrison,

I see that you have a mixture of truth and misunderstanding in most of your posts.

Yes, we are to obey the Ten Commandments, but have you not understood that no one can do that?

Believers in Jesus Christ are in this position now, "For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law, but under grace."

The Holy Spirit will live the Law in and through you. All you have to do is meditate on His Word day and night and grow in His wonderful GRACE!

waynemlj

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waynemlj
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quote:
Originally posted by Isaiah:
Not sure where the misunderstanding is -I was referring to ......I John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we believe we do not sin -we cannot repent of sin -which we are to do before being baptized...this is not a complete repentance -as God's holy spirit being received within one after baptism and the laying on of hands -and the decision of God -is what ENABLES man -who is flesh and blood and cannot please God -to BEGIN to recognize just how sinful he is -and how each commandment relates to what he does -so that he might then travel toward Godliness as God leads him to do so by the spirit and empowers him to do so by his spirit. Honestly not sure what you meant by the rest -except that being under the law means that the law has power over us -just as with human laws -to be a law-abiding citizen frees one from penalty -but with God's law -we cannot escape the death penalty for our sins except that Christ died for us -in our stead -and we can accept that sacrifice or not -and the evidence of that is obedience to the commandments -which we can begin when the spirit is with us -and continue when it is in us -eventually being perfected by God.
Hope that clears things up.

Hi afisherofman,

That clip you included in your post is certainly a good one! I enjoyed watching and listening carefully to that preaching.

That's preaching of the Truth of salvation!

Excellent!

waynemlj

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waynemlj
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Hi Michael Harrison,

I see that you believe in salvation through faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. The important word in that statement above is that He said as He breathed His last, "It is finished."

As someone replied correctly to you in this thread, you need to see the distinction between Justification (saved the moment you say yes to Jesus) and Sanctification (the life-long process of being purified of our sinful habits that are so entrenched).

The Bible clearly teaches that we are Saved, are being Saved (still Saved), and will be Saved (still Saved).

Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgement, but has passed from death to life." (John 5:24)

And in John 10:27-28, Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand."

No, don't worry, you can trust God's Word completely!

You can never lose your salvation, not ever!

waynemlj

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waynemlj
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
I believe that the greatest heresy in the church is ‘once saved, always saved’. For, you are not saved. You are being saved. You are born again if you have believed that Jesus was born of a virgin, died and rose again for you, and you have surrendered to His will for you. You are saved if you endure to the end.

You do not consider yourself to have attained (Php 3:12) wherein the freshness is locked in, sealed, never to be reversed. This is not to be confused with having attained perfection of faith of working relationship, a gift of grace, as in the finished work, and therefore the blessed union He died for you to have in this life (so that you may reach the end).

But when Jesus comes into your heart, He comes as a baby Jesus, into a manger. If He is not fed through faith, He stays a baby, or maybe he dies away. This is the parable of the talents, and of the sewer. It is so sad that many go on with life with a still born within. That which he thought he had is taken and given to him who had ten.

Think of a cornfield. Say that rains come and sprinkle the field so that all the corn begins to grow. Later, rain only gets one side of the field, and again the same, until corn on one end is tall and healthy. Some in the middle is less so, and the corn on the other end is dead. It reached a foot high, then couldn’t be watered, and was dead. It still looks like corn from a distance, to some, but is actually like that passage, “having a form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof.” It has no life in it though it looks like a stalk, and is still standing.

This is like the corn that fell on rocks, but had no root and couldn’t grow, that withered away. Speaking of corn, some fell among the thorns (Mk 4:7) and brought forth no fruit. These are the Christians who are either worldly minded and love their life in this world, or they who defeat the work of the Spirit by their own works through superfluity of zeal. For example, in order to love the Lord with all your heart, soul and mind, you have to quit trying – the opposite of doing. God works in mysterious ways.

You increase, with the increase of God. Faith grows. Sanctification shows. You have an eye opening experience when the Spirit Graces you. If born again is the baby stage, this is the adolescent stage. It is here where we try to imitate Christ, like kids try to imitate their parents.

We cannot though. We are not called to either. Only Christ can imitate Christ. But we want to be like Him, so we try, and sermons are preached to this tune, made to order. Don’t believe them though. However, Christ can be Christ through us, literally, if we yield to Him through faith, and quit trying to do it for Him.

So, are there any other heresies out there besides the one where people accept their salvation as a fact, and do not live pleasing to Jesus? Will he not say to these, "depart from me. i never knew you."

These will be cast into the lake of fire. The hardest part is, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. It will not be from those who primarily flat out rejected Christ's offer, as much as from those who had no doubt about salvation, but were wrong. Doesn't it hurt to think about it? I hurt thinking about it.


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CWO4GUNNER
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(scythewieldor)
Amen brother, good use of Gods armor and the sword (Gods word)!

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scythewieldor
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Dear friends,
quote:
1 Cor 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
10 We are fools for Christ’s sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

Does your religion allow for a Teflon experience?
quote:
2 Pet 2:1 ¶ But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 ¶ And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 ¶ And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

False teachers, for the sake of covetousness, put together messages the terms of which are ill-defined in order to make money off of those who buy those messages. The message that we must receive will lead us away from ungodly (impious) living. Those who live in an ungodly way or unjust way will be punished.
quote:
2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt <2585> the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
2585 kaphleuw kapeleuo kap-ale-yoo’-o

from kapelos (a huckster); TDNT-3:603,415; v

AV-corrupt 1; 1

1) to be a retailer, to peddle
2) to make money by selling anything
2a) to get sordid gain by dealing in anything, to do a thing for base gain
2b) to trade in the word of God
2b1) to try to get base gain by teaching divine truth
2c) to corrupt, to adulterate
2c1) peddlers were in the habit of adulterating their commodities for the sake of gain

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WildB
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" I hope to see you in eternity "

You will be on my street next to Glory Boulevard .

John.14

[2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

--------------------
That is all.....

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becauseHElives
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Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they
may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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WildB
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Greetings in Christ becauseHElives,

"The child of Yahweh is clearly told in scripture, without Holiness, no man shall see Yahweh…."


To this I say those that claim to see God can throw the first rock on the corner of fools.


John.8

1. [7] So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Heb.4

1. [15] For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Heb.9

1. [28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

--------------------
That is all.....

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becauseHElives
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Hello WildB [wave3] consider also it is just as clear in scripture that Holiness is very much a part of salvation, to be clear what I mean I will define Holiness…

To be separate or other than the world….

The child of Yahweh is clearly told in scripture, without Holiness, no man shall see Yahweh….

This Holiness is different than Yeshua’s Holiness that is imparted to us, this Holiness is the product of abiding in Yeshua…..

1 Peter 1:15-16 And as He which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy, in all manner of conversation; because it is written, be ye holy; for I am holy.

Hebrews 12:14 Follow after peace with all men, and holiness, without which, no man shall see the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

I understand you are a “Boiler Maker”, I understand something that is seal and what that means but anything that can be sealed can be unsealed when certain principles are applied.

I will agree that Yahweh’s is longsuffering to a point man has a hard time understanding, but there is an end to how long Yahweh will allow the Blood of His Son to be trampled under the feet of a believer.

Be blessed WildB, I hope to see you in eternity

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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WildB
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It is clear to any that studies the Bible, Once SEALED always SEALED. To be SEALED is to be SAVED until the day of redemption.

Eph.1

[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph.4

[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

2Cor.1

[22] Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

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That is all.....

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becauseHElives
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The problem I see with people that embrace the lie of "Once Saved, Always Saved" is that they want an "easy, no effort, Salvation" which Yeshua does not offer.

The Salvation Yeshua offers to those that accept, is a way of continual perseverance!

Yeshua said if you accept my offer of “Eternal Life”, you must take up your cross daily and follow ME!

As Dr. Tozer used to say ,”you knew one thing about a man that was carrying a cross out of the city, you knew he wasn't coming back.” ...

The people that embrace "Once Saved, Always Saved" misrepresent Salvation they say it is free.

But that is a lie because it is not free, it cost Yahweh His only Son and it will cost you your life to follow HIM.

Yeshua did not die so humans could continue to wallow in the bondage of sin.

Yeshua died to break the bonds of sin over mankind, Yeshua died to impart “GRACE” into man.

Anyone that believes "Once Saved, Always Saved", please learn the definition of “GRACE”, because the scriptures make it very plain you are saved by “GRACE”, not of works which any man can boast.

Here is the definition of “GRACE” according to the “The Strong’s Concordance” or “Vines New Testament Dictionary”….

God’s divine ability imparted into the heart of a man, His Power, His desire in a man to do what is Righteous and Holy in this human body.

Read Yeshua’s words…

Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. (Luke 13:24)

Yeshua is not talking to none Church member here, there is a struggle everyday in the life of a believer, a struggle against the powers of hell, a struggle to give up, to compromise just a little.


Very good point by Michael Harrison….

quote:

“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." (2Pe 2:20)

"For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." 2Pe 2:21

"But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." (2Pe 2:22)

This is seriously scary to me for the sake of those who just don't get it.

Here’s another translation of that passage….

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire

The only true Saved Person is a person that is living in a manner that displays to this world they are dead to this world. The world sees visible they are different, the world take notice of people carrying crosses. The world mocks them and ridicules them.

Are you carrying your cross, does the world know you are dead to it, if not I assure you are not saved!

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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CWO4GUNNER
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The scriptures make in very clear with numerous examples (already posted) from eden and beyond the cross, man's ability to reject God's love, fallowed by Gods consequential judment (not saved). The extrapolated contrary heresy belief is a huge leap brought on by either ignorance, spiritual blindness, or in most cases a desire to serve two masters (sensuality and salvation). While I believe that all of us that believe in our harts (as God judges the hart) Jesus Christ is Lord subject to failing seed by our own hand, many things not now revealed to us will be made clear at judgment along with these heresy's i.e saved to sin, and Calvinism.
WARNING! For those that are still not sure here is the FAQ that Paul provided just for you!
(Romans6:1-3, 15)
Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace? Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it? Or have you forgotten that when we were joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we joined him in his death?
********************************************
Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God which leads to righteous living.

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KnowHim
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You can not lose something you don't have. First thing of importance is to make sure you are saved.

If you are saved you will live like you are and produce good fruit. If you don't produce good fruit then you best reevaluate.

Forever, eternity, infinity is not the time to find out you were playing a game and trying to see just how much you can get away with and still be saved. Get over it and give your entire life to God via His Son Jesus Christ. Once you come to know Him you will not have to keep trying to prove you are saved and always will be, you will know you are saved. You don't try and get away with things when you really know the Master. You are willing to try and please Him. When you are willing to try and please Him and have given your life to Him and let go of it from your self. Then you will know you are saved.

But if you are hoping for the push button prayer or verse that says you can just do something and then live any way you want then you have missed knowing Jesus Christ. Once you come to know Him you will know it because it will set off a passion in you that you can not stop and you will do anything to be close to Him.

Are you there yet?

If you are still trying to prove a push button salvation, YOU ARE NOT THERE YET!

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WildB
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Once SEALED always SEALED.

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That is all.....

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-FoC-
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
[QB] I believe that the greatest heresy in the church is ‘once saved, always saved’. For, you are not saved. You are being saved. You are born again if you have believed that Jesus was born of a virgin, died and rose again for you, and you have surrendered to His will for you. You are saved if you endure to the end.

Hey Brother.
Im absolutely against this OSAS heresy myself.
I just decided again to leave those who believe this lie alone because nothing you can show them will cause them to change their minds.
We're going to do a study for our website so that folks can read it, but other than that, and Im sure you know this, its really just a waste of time and effort trying to convince someone that doesnt want anything to do with what is being said.

I didnt read much beyond your quote above, so I have no clue how things turn out in this thread, but I did want to toss in a word of encouragement for you.
If you cant change anyones minds who posts, your words may still get the truth out to someone who reads and lurks.

[Smile]
wm tipton

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Michael Harrison
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[Cross] to quote grandmapeg: Try looking at the permanency of salvation from this different perspective. Below is the text of a brochure in our church. (And remember that we are not saved because of anything we DO, so we cannot lose our salvation by anything we do.

Dear, dear. It is a little different than that. If you couldn't lose it, there would be no need for much of what the Apostles said. And, though we are not saved by anything that we do.... Well, we do actually 'do' something. We receive. We accept, believe, and we receive. The benefit of salvation is meaningless until we reach out and take it.

Then, we can reject! If we kick Jesus off of the throne of our heart, before long we might kick Him out of our heart as sin overcomes us.

He did it (saved us), but it is up to us to take it. He will not force anyone. He will not force us to walk it out to the end either (this is a whole sermon). By the same measure, we can embrace the world, and just as the Apostle Peter said:

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." (2Pe 2:20)
"For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." 2Pe 2:21
"But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." (2Pe 2:22) This is seriously scary to me for the sake of those who just don't get it.

If you live like hell (he just said that?) you will likely throw it - unless you are blessed to repent in the final hour. In that case, you have laid not much up in heaven.

Moreover, He said "Be hot or cold, not lukewarm." Lukewarmness is dangerous because it is embracing the world, while trying to hang on to salvation. It is straddling the fence.

So, in keeping with the quote, He has made provision for us to be able to be on His good side, and escape His wrath. But we have to recon with His provision, the enabling that He is made unto us in order for us to live Godly. We have to accept, and not reject His provision!

(well becausehelives just said this very thing, but i just said it again. It is most important.It must be prophetic!)

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becauseHElives
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You know, the position you take on “once saved always saved” doesn’t really matter because in the end Yeshua’s words are all that matter…

“Those that endure till the end will be saved”

It doesn’t get any plainer than that!

A man or woman that lives like hell, will be in hell in the end unless Yeshua has changed their heart.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Isaiah
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I do believe that when one is truly saved, they can no longer be turned -but then...when I say saved -or born again -I mean already having been changed from flesh to spirit -mortal to immortal.

Until then we must be diligent not to fall away -not to turn back -and to make our calling sure -to complete the race, as it were.

Mat 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
1Co 10:12 Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
Heb 3:12 Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called "today," that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

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CWO4GUNNER
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Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away,[a] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Hebrews 12:14-18 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.

Matthew 5:13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.

Galatians 6:6-8 Let him who is taught the word share in all good things with him who teaches. Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

James 2:18-20 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

Revelation 3:5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

There have been many times I asked God to take away my will and ability to chose evil over good but like the apostle Paul he told me that his grace is sufficient for me but it was always my choice to grieve the Holy Spirit and give up my inheritance for a morsel of sin. Not that I haven't sinned but we run the risk of being ensnared and forgetting what type of man we were with God no longer beholding our face in the mirror of the Holy Spirit, lost. James 1:22-24 For if you listen to the word and don’t obey, it is like glancing at your face in a mirror. You see yourself, walk away, and forget what you look like.

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jiggyfly
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I was hoping for some response to my last post, did not mean to kill the thread.
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jiggyfly
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I wonder how you all see these scriptures fitting in with OSAS or NOSAS?

Romans 5:18
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

1Corinthians 15:22&23
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

Colossians 1:18-20
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

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becauseHElives
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quote:
GrandmaPeg

Try looking at the permanency of salvation from this different perspective. Below is the text of a brochure in our church. (And remember that we are not saved because of anything we DO, so we cannot lose our salvation by anything we do.)

…Hebrews 2:1-3
Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;…..
…6-15
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Escape what?

Have any of you that hold to “Once Saved Always Saved” doctrine ever asked yourself that question?

The apostle Paul is not only speaking to entering rest here on earth only, he is also speaking to eternal rest.

We have to have a greater vision than this earthly life; this life is a preparation for the fullness of the life to come.


The Three Tenses of Salvation

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

People are all the time asking me, "Hey David, when were you saved" or "Tell me about when your were saved." I always answer the same way, with all the seriousness I can muster, and tongue firmly in cheek, my reply is "I was saved two thousand years ago on an old rugged cross on a hill at Calvary."

That's when you were saved as well. Matter of fact, that's when ALL were saved, if they accept the free gift of salvation from our awesome God.
Psalm 145:18 The LORD is near to all who call upon Him, To all who call upon Him in truth. (NKJV)
But, when I read 1 Corinthians 1:18 and saw "are being saved", I thought "whoaaa Paul, what are you talking about?" I thought I was saved. Not being saved. Then it hit me: I have been saved, I am being saved, and I shall be saved. That's what I want to look at today, these three tenses of salvation.

We have been saved from the penalty of sin. This is righteousness, which is a fancy way of saying, "made right with God." 2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. It is the righteousness of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ that saved us, not our own righteousness.
We are being saved from the power of sin. This is sanctification, another five-dollar theological word that simply means "to be set apart," "to be made holy."

Romans 6:19: I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. 1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness.

Being saved is the process we are all going through if we are believers in Christ Jesus. Hopefully everyday we become a little more like Christ. We become less and less powerless over sin, and more and more holy, but the frustration for us all is that we never overcome sin, we only progress toward less sin. Which leads us to the third and final tense of salvation.

We shall be saved. This is redemption. When we die as believers of Jesus, we are then redeemed, we are "cashed in," if you will. We are turned in to something new. We are given new and perfect bodies. We shall be saved from the presence of all sin. We will be in the presence of our Holy God. That is Heaven, being with God for eternity.

Mark 10:45 "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

Jesus is our ransom, He sets us free from sin. The ransom He paid with His life is the price paid for our eternal destiny. He and He alone liberates us from the misery and penalty of our sins.

So, we have a lot to look forward to in heaven -- total freedom from sin. But while we are here, let's strive to continue being saved, by continuing to grow in Christ.

Salvation is expressed as a threefold act of God: an accomplished fact, an experience continuing in the present, and a consummation still to come. The New Testament writers use different metaphors to refer to any one of these tenses. All attempts to give priority to one tense over another lead to a distortion of the entire picture.


John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Isaiah
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Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

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WildB
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2Cor.1

[22] Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph.1

[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph.4

[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

2Tim.2

[19] Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.


Once you are SEALED with the Holy Spirit you can't get un-sealed. However you can sin a sin which will cause your life to be shortened.


1John.5
[16] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

1Cor.5
[5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

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That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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GrandmaPeg...

Just a note to say thanks. I really enjoyed your post.


God bless you,
[Smile]

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GrandmaPeg
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Try looking at the permanency of salvation from this different perspective. Below is the text of a brochure in our church. (And remember that we are not saved because of anything we DO, so we cannot lose our salvation by anything we do.)

=====

The New Testament was written in the common Greek language of the day, used by everyday people. One of the more interesting aspects of the language is the perfect-tense verb. It describes an act that was brought to completion and has present-day consequences, indicating abiding, permanent results. The verses in this brochure, used in biblical context, emphasize security of the believer's salvation based on this perfect-tense verb.

(1) EPHESIANS 2:5, 8: "... by grace you have been SAVED."

The Greek verb sozo means "to keep safe and sound; to rescue from danger." Believers have been saved in time past, with the abiding result that their salvation persists through the present time. Due to God's free gift of grace, at the moment you believed in Christ, your salvation from sin and eternal death is permanent.


(2) ACTS 26:18, "... those who have been SANCTIFIED by faith in Me ..."

The Greek verb hagiazo is translated as "sanctify," with the adjective and noun being "holy and saint." It means "to be set apart to God." Believers have been cleansed of sin, separated from the world, with the abiding result that they always belong to God. You became a saint at the moment of salvation, and your position with God is permanent.


(3) 1 PETER 1:23, " You have been BORN AGAIN ... through the living and enduring word of God."

The verb anagennao means "to produce again; to be born again, anew." Believers are born again with the abiding result that they are continually new persons in Christ. At the moment of salvation, your new life is eternal because it was given by the eternal God through His eternal word. Your position as a born-again believer is permanent.


(4) JOHN 5:24, "... has PASSED out of death into life."

The verb metabaino means "to change one's dwelling; to move from one place to another." Believers were transferred from death to life, with the abiding result that they will always have eternal life. This transition is made upon your belief in the Lord Jesus. Your eternal life is permanent.


(5) LUKE 10:20, "Rejoice that your names are RECORDED in heaven."

The verb grapho means "to write; to register in a book." Believers' names are written in heaven with the abiding result that they are on permanent record. Believers are enrolled as citizens of heaven even while on earth. Your name is written in the Lamb's book of life, and it will never be erased. It is permanent.


(6) ROMANS 6:7, "... he who has died is FREED from sin."

The verb dikaioo means "to declare a person just or righteous; acquitted." The sinners who died were made free with the abiding result that they stand in the position of permanent freedom from the sinful nature. Sin no longer has the legal right to force its mastery and control on a believer. Your justification, freedom from sin, is permanent.


(7) ROMANS 5:2, "... through Whom we also have OBTAINED our introduction by faith into this grace in which we STAND."

The verb exo means "to possess or hold"; the verb histemi means "to place; make firm." At salvation, believers obtained access to God and a firm footing through Jesus Christ to full salvation of God, with the abiding result that they will always have this access and firm footing. Your access to God, and your firm standing in His grace, are permanent.


(8) HEBREWS 10:14, "For by one offering, He has PERFECTED for all time those who are sanctified."

The verb teleioo means "to make perfect; accomplish." At salvation, believers were perfected with the abiding result that they are perfected forever. They are new creations whom God sees as holy. Christ's sacrifice secured your complete and final salvation. Because of His sacrifice, your salvation is permanent.


(9) HEBREWS 3:14, "We have BECOME partakers of Christ if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end."

The verb ginomai means "to become; to come into existence." Believers became partakers of Christ, with the abiding result that they will always be in a permanent relationship with Him. The possession of your salvation is evidenced by your continuation of faith. Your union with Christ is permanent.


(10) JUDE 1:1, "To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and KEPT for Jesus Christ."

The verb tereo means "to take care of; to guard." Believers of Jesus Christ, from the moment of salvation, have been guarded with the abiding result that they are in a permanent state of being carefully watched. God is keeping the saints so that they might continue to be forever the possession of the Lord Jesus. Your eternal life, secured by God for Jesus Christ, is permanent.


(11) 1 JOHN 4:13, "By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has GIVEN us of His Spirit."

The verb didomi means "to give, distribute, supply, or bestow." At the moment of salvation, the Holy Spirit was given to the saints, with the abiding result that He is a permanent gift. This is proof of our fellowship with God. It is one of the clearest evidences that we are the children of God. He has lodged the image and fruit of His Spirit in our hearts. Your salvation is secure because the gift of the Spirit is permanent.


(12) 2 THESSALONIANS 2:13, "... brethren, BELOVED of the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit."

The verb agapao means "to love." It is a love of preciousness, esteem, and of prizing. Believers have been loved with an absolute love with the abiding result that it is a permanent attitude on His part. Christ is the Beloved of the Father. Because God the Father has always loved God the Son, believers are accepted in Christ, and are also beloved of God. The divine order is this: God the Father elects the sinner to salvation, God the Spirit brings him to the act of faith, and God the Son cleanses him from sin. Your place as a beloved child of God is permanent.


(13) JOHN 10:29, "My Father, who has GIVEN them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."

The verb didomi means "to give, distribute, supply, or bestow." The elect were given to Christ by God, with the result that they remain eternally in His care. They were given to the Son as a trust to be managed by Him, and therefore, God will still look after them. Jesus had experienced the power of His Father upholding and strengthening Him, and therefore puts all His sheep into His hand too. Your salvation is secure because God's power to keep you is permanent.

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Isaiah
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Not sure where the misunderstanding is -I was referring to ......I John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we believe we do not sin -we cannot repent of sin -which we are to do before being baptized...this is not a complete repentance -as God's holy spirit being received within one after baptism and the laying on of hands -and the decision of God -is what ENABLES man -who is flesh and blood and cannot please God -to BEGIN to recognize just how sinful he is -and how each commandment relates to what he does -so that he might then travel toward Godliness as God leads him to do so by the spirit and empowers him to do so by his spirit. Honestly not sure what you meant by the rest -except that being under the law means that the law has power over us -just as with human laws -to be a law-abiding citizen frees one from penalty -but with God's law -we cannot escape the death penalty for our sins except that Christ died for us -in our stead -and we can accept that sacrifice or not -and the evidence of that is obedience to the commandments -which we can begin when the spirit is with us -and continue when it is in us -eventually being perfected by God.
Hope that clears things up.

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afisherofman
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Hi all,

I do not know who saw the below video. so I will post it again as I did on another thread.

Below is a video from a youth conference. The speaker is Pastor Paul Washer. director of Heart Cry Missionary Society http://www.heartcrymissionary.com

Before viewing, let me say this right up front.....WOW!!!!!!!! make that a double WOW!!!!!!

Watching the video, I am reminded of the well known exchange between Jack Nicholson and Tom Cruise in:
"A Few Good Men"

quote:
Jessep: (Jack Nicholson) You want answers?
Kaffee (Tom Cruise): I think I'm entitled to them.
Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee: I want the truth!
Jessep: You can't handle the truth!

Our Pastor warns us at times during a service ...."pull your feet in, I will be stepping on some toes today."

Friends, I believe, even though Paul is addressing the youth, ALL people whether they are lost, seeking, or claim to
have fount the truth and declare they are "saved", needs to hear this message.
The message is quite blunt and to the point, shocking and I believe very truthful according to God's word.

The theme of the message is on salvation and addresses the following bible verse....

quote:
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Matthew 7:22-23
Who will be included in the group of evildoers?
Paul points out that, in addition to the lost souls, there is a good possibility that there will be people who claim to be "saved" today and on the day of judgement, will find out that they were not "saved" at all because.......(answer revealed in the video)

The video, from opening to closing prayer is 60 mins in length. Leave yourself time to view it.
I heard every second of the video and it was worth it every second.

Here is the link to a 3 1/2 minute segment of the video below with a video presentation
Paul Washer

Here is the link to the full length video and may God bless you and give you an open heart to receive God's word....Amen.

Paul Washer 60 min

God bless

Fish

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Michael Harrison
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[Bible]

The pouring out of God's spirit is so that we can be not under the law -by obeying it in spirit and truth. It is not an excuse to disregard any part of it -all ten commandments are still valid -no matter what men say.

[It sounds like there is a contradiction, but..... If the pouring out of the Spirit is so that we can not be under law, yet we are not to disregard any part of it i.e. such as 10 Commandments, how then is it kept? For it is, else we disregard it, which would contradict! Yet it does not.]

All men sin -if we say we do not we lie -but we must overcome it every day -until God removes it from us completely.

[ If we overcome sin, then we do not abide in it. Where then is the lie? Else, what good is overcoming?
1Jn 5:4 "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith (our 'having' according to His doing, reconciliation)." ]

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

[Jesus is the fulfillment of the law. He is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, redemption, sanctification. By Jesus we do not transgress the law, unless our faith is in the wrong concept, or things. Proper faith entirely makes the difference, not our contribution by good intentions, which are completely sinful, therefore utterly failed.]

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[Exactamunde! God forbid! No fooling. If Jesus delivers you and you don't walk in it, what can we say then? Don't explain it to me. Explain it to Him.]

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

[Therefore we have to transgress Jesus to sin. Yet if we yield to Him, we are delivered from it by His life, as long as we are trusting and yielding (it goes deep, but you can get it). By His life, by His living we rise above it. Else our faith is in vain, and tradition (literally) is all that we have to sustain us.]

Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[Works are the fruit of faith, evidence, not something that we do to accomplish anything for God. Those are 'dead', because we are incapable of 'producing' them. Only He can. Therefore, works are verification of faith, not something we accomplish by our willingness.]

We are not kept from the tree of life. Only unbelief does it. He died to provide access. We love the darkness and refuse access! Quit loving the darkness and come into the light! Quit defying Him. [dance]

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Isaiah
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Works v. Faith
No works any man can do can earn salvation (salvation being eternal life without sin -which only God can give) -but if one does not put away sin from their life, they will not be given the gift of salvation. Repentance is the first thing mentioned regarding the path to receiving God's spirit -also a gift of God which can not be earned by going through the motions of baptism -but as he chooses based on what he sees in your heart and in your life -and a very important step toward salvation -repentance is turning from sin -sin is the transgression of the law -which can not be fully understood or obeyed without God's spirit -the law saves no one -but no one saved will break the law -and any who hope to be saved had better be striving to obey God. There is much confusion about the law -few understand the difference between the spiritual law and the physical judgments -but God does look on the heart -he will guide the sincere to understand it. Obedience to God's laws are required to maintain peace in the universe forever -we will always have to obey them -even after we are granted the free gift of salvation.
The pouring out of God's spirit is so that we can be not under the law -by obeying it in spirit and truth. It is not an excuse to disregard any part of it -all ten commandments are still valid -no matter what men say.
The whole reason we are kept FROM salvation at this time -the tree of LIFE -is because of disobedience.
All men sin -if we say we do not we lie -but we must overcome it every day -until God removes it from us completely.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Mat 19:19 Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
(ETC....!!!)

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KnowHim
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There is no easy push button way to be saved. There is no prayer you can recite to be saved. Walking down the isle will not save you. The ONLY way to be born-again is to know Him, know Jesus Christ. Once you meet him you will know and then you will be willing to do what ever He ask and you will also like doing it. If you have not come to know Jesus this way I suggest you continue to seek until you find him. It is all about Jesus and not about us.

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with ALL your heart. Jeremiah 29:13 (KJV)

Hebrews 11:6 (NKJV)
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.


He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him. - John 14:21

1 John 2:3-6 (NIV)
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.


Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Parachute

It is not about knowing about Jesus Christ, it is about putting Him on.

Think about it this way. Two men are seated in a plane. The first is given a parachute and told to put is on as it would improve his flight. He’s a little skeptical at first because he can’t see how wearing a parachute in a plane could possibly improve the flight. After a time he decides to experiment and see if the claim is true. As he puts it on he notices the weight of it upon his shoulders and he finds that he has difficulty in sitting upright. However, he consoles himself with the fact that he was told the parachute would improve the flight. So, he decides to give the thing a little time. As he waits he notices that some of the other passengers are laughing at him, because he’s wearing a parachute in a plane. He begins to feel somewhat humiliated. As they begin to point and laugh at him and he can stand it no longer, he slinks in his seat, unstraps the parachute, and throws it to the floor. Disillusionment and bitterness fill his heart, because, as far as he was concerned, he was told an outright lie.

The second man is given a parachute, but listen to what he’s told. He’s told to put it on because at any moment he’d be jumping 25,000 feet out of the plane. He gratefully puts the parachute on; he doesn’t notice the weight of it upon his shoulders, nor that he can’t sit upright. His mind is consumed with the thought of what would happen to him if he jumped without that parachute.

Let’s analyze the motive and the result of each passenger’s experience. The first man’s motive for putting the parachute on was solely to improve his flight. The result of his experience was that he was humiliated by the passengers; he was disillusioned and somewhat embittered against those who gave him the parachute. As far as he’s concerned it’ll be a long time before anyone gets one of those things on his back again. The second man put the parachute on solely to escape the jump to come, and because of his knowledge of what would happen to him without it, he has a deep-rooted joy and peace in his heart knowing that he’s saved from sure death. This knowledge gives him the ability to withstand the mockery of the other passengers. His attitude towards those who gave him the parachute is one of heart-felt gratitude.

Now listen to what the modern gospel says. It says, "Put on the Lord Jesus Christ. He’ll give you love, joy, peace, fulfillment, and lasting happiness." In other words, "Jesus will improve your flight." So the sinner responds, and in an experimental fashion, puts on the Savior to see if the claims are true. And what does he get? The promised temptation, tribulation, and persecution. The other passengers mock him. So what does he do? He takes off the Lord Jesus Christ, he’s offended for the word’s sake (Mark 4:17), he’s disillusioned and somewhat embittered, and quite rightly so. He was promised peace, joy, love, fulfillment, and lasting happiness, and all he got were trials and humiliation. His bitterness is directed toward those who gave him the so-called "good news". His latter end becomes worse than the first: another inoculated and bitter backslider.

The body of Chirst, instead of preaching that Jesus improves the flight, should be warning the passengers they’re going have to jump out of the plane. That it’s "appointed unto man once to die, but after this the judgment" (Heb. 9:27). And when a sinner understands the horrific consequences of breaking God’s law, then he will flee to the Savior solely to escape the wrath that’s to come. And if we’re true and faithful witnesses, that’s what we’ll be preaching. That there is wrath to come; that God "commands all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30). Why? "Because He has appointed a day, in which He will judge the world in righteousness" (vs. 31). You see, the issue isn’t one of happiness, but one of righteousness. It doesn’t matter how happy a sinner is, how much he’s enjoying "the pleasures of sin for a season" (Heb. 11:25). Without the righteousness of Christ, he’ll perish on the day of wrath. "Riches profit not on the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from death" (Prov. 11:4). Peace and joy are legitimate fruits of salvation, but it’s not legitimate to use these fruits as a draw card for salvation.

Now, can you remember why the second passenger had joy and peace in his heart? It was because he knew that parachute was going to save him from sure death. And as a believer, I have, as Paul says, "joy and peace in believing" (Rom. 15:13), because I know that the righteousness of Christ is going to deliver me from the wrath that’s to come.

Now with that thought in mind, let’s take a close look at an incident on board the plane. We have a brand new stewardess. She’s carrying a tray of boiling hot coffee. It’s her first day; she wants to leave an impression on the passengers, and she certainly does. Because as she’s walking down the aisle, she trips over someone’s foot and slops that boiling hot coffee all over the lap of our second passenger. Now what’s his reaction as that boiling liquid hits his tender flesh? Does he go, "Ssssfffff! Man that hurt"? Mmm-hhh. He feels the pain. But then does he rip the parachute from his shoulders, throw it to the floor and say, "The stupid parachute!"? No. Why should he? He didn’t put the parachute on for a better flight. He put it on to save him from the jump to come. If anything, the hot coffee incident causes him to cling tighter to the parachute and even look forward to the jump.

Now if you and I have put on the Lord Jesus Christ for the right motive, to flee from the wrath that’s to come, when tribulation strikes, when the flight gets bumpy, we won’t get angry at God; we won’t lose our joy and peace. Why should we? We didn’t come to Jesus for a happy lifestyle: we came to flee from the wrath that’s to come. And if anything, tribulation drives the true believer closer to the Savior. And sadly we have literally multitudes of professing Christians who lose their joy and peace when the flight gets bumpy. Why? They’re the product of a man-centered gospel. They came lacking repentance, without which you can’t be saved.

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Michael Harrison
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Sanctification means to be set apart, which happens by circumcision of the heart. Circumcision of the heart sanctifies you to Jesus in and unto a living relationship. There is no process involved except that which is involved in coming to the understanding of this.

We are justified by His blood as we believe in His life, His living, His living in us. To believe is the prerequisite. We are heirs of God. This - is - it! We are heirs of the life of Christ who reconciles us to God the father through the shed blood. Heirs of God. Not what He has.

It is like this. Jesus died and rose again. So some see it like this in their mind. When He rose, He appeared before the Father and He stood with one arm raised, wherein He had the keys to death and hell. He said, "Father, it is done. I have spared those which you have given me. They are pardoned now." Down on earth a crowd is gathered. They are jumping up and down, hugging each other like a favorite nascar driver has just pulled into pit row where the checkered flag is waving! They wave their hands towards heaven saying something about "Here am i Lord. I'm on your side. I know you see me. Yep. Thank you God that i can be on your side." Then they go away, and commense 'doing' all the things that they think will look good to Him on judgment day, doing what they think is right. They hold meetings. They pat each other on the back giving each one and another an "Amen Brother!" They are a society, a church. Better join if you want to get on His good side they say.

Here is the thing. On that day He will ask "Did you believe that i died for you? Did you believe that i did that so that i could live for you? I died to live in your place. I am the resurrection and the life. You see, the cross was not for me. The cross was for you. I did that so that you would not have to endure the pain. But it has no effect if you did not put faith into it. You see, in order to know me, you had to die even still. That cross is how. You had to die by faith in what i did for you, so that i could live in place of you. I cannot live in you if you have not died on the cross. You live unto yourself. You are a law unto yourself. Therefore the rules that you followed, the obedience that you thought you obeyed had no effect if you didn't die on that cross. You still lived!"

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Isaiah
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When one receives God's spirit within them, they are a new creature...
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new/Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
...though many do not understand what the spirit is, and do not have it.

Nonetheless, even if one does, they are not yet ACTUALLY born again -not yet saved.
One is truly born again when they are literally changed from flesh to spirit -for those in Christ, this will be at the last trump -when the kingdoms of this world become Christ's.
Joh 3:7-8 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit/Phi 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Until we are born again, we are not "saved", as it is possible we might turn from God.
Heb 10:26-29 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?/Luk 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost(spirit) it shall not be forgiven.
If you are worried you might have committed this sin -do not be -any who want to seek God may do so -willingly and willfully sinning are very different -those who commit this sin do not seek him -yet they know they will be judged by him. Everyone sins -even after receiving God's spirit -this does not mean one has rejected the spirit -just that you are human and must spend the rest of your life overcoming sin -before being saved out of this world -and from sin -completely -by God.

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Caretaker
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2 Cor. 1:
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
23 Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth.
24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

2 Cor. 5:
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

Eph. 1:
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


Earnest:

Strong's Number: 728 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
ajrrabwvn of Hebrew origin (06162)

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Arrhabon 1:475,80
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ar-hrab-ohn'
Noun Masculine
Definition
1. an earnest
a. money which in purchases is given as a pledge or downpayment that the full amount will subsequently be paid
John Gills exposition of 2 Cor. 1:22

John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
2 Corinthians 1:22
Who hath also sealed us?

"Two" things more are here attributed to God; "first", the sealing of his people. The use of seals is various, as to denote property in things, to distinguish one thing from another, to show esteem and affection for persons or things, and for security and protection, and to hide and conceal; all which might be applied to sealing, as expressive of the grace of God to his people, in claiming a property in them, distinguishing them from the rest of the world, setting his affections on them, securing and protecting their persons, and hiding them under the shadow of his wings: but sometimes a seal is used to certify, make sure, or assure the truth of a thing; see (John 3:33) (1 Corinthians 9:3) (Jeremiah 33:10) in which sense the word "sealing" is used here, and intends that assurance which God gives his people of their interest in his love, and the covenant of grace; of their election of God, and redemption by Christ; of their interest in Christ, and union with him; of their justification by him, and adoption through him; of the truth of grace in their hearts, their perseverance in it, and sure and certain enjoyment of eternal glory. The persons thus sealed are not carnal and unconverted persons, only believers in Christ, and these, after they commence such; the seal by which they are sealed, is not any of the ordinances, as circumcision under the Old Testament, or baptism, or the Lord's supper under the New; for these are no seals, nor are they ever so called; but the Spirit of God himself, as the Holy Spirit of promise; for the same who, in the next clause, is called the earnest, is the seal; see (Ephesians 1:13) .

"Secondly", the giving of the earnest of the Spirit:

and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts:

by "the Spirit" is meant, not the gifts and graces of the Spirit merely, but the Spirit of God and Christ himself; who was concerned in the creation of the world, in inditing the Scriptures, in forming and filling the human nature of Christ, and in his resurrection from the dead; he himself is given as an "earnest": the word (arrabwn) , here used, and in (2 Corinthians 5:5) (Ephesians 1:14) is the Hebrew word (Nwbre) , and comes from (bre) , which signifies "to become a surety, to give a pledge"; and is used for a pledge in covenants and bargains, both in Scripture, see (Genesis 38:17,18,20) , and in Jewish writings F4; which is given as an earnest, and in part of what it is a pledge of, and is never returned: the Spirit of God is an earnest or pledge of the heavenly inheritance, which is not only prepared for us, and promised to us, and Christ is in the possession of in our nature, in our room and stead, and as our representative; but the Spirit of God also is sent down "into our hearts" as a pledge of it; where he dwells as in his temple, supplies us with all grace, witnesses to us our sonship, and assures us of the heavenly glory: and as such he is "given"; and an unmerited free grace gift he is; for him to be given in this manner, and for such a purpose, is a wonderful display of the love of the Father, and of the Son, and is a surprising instance of his grace and condescension of the Spirit, and for which we should be abundantly thankful.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Believer has the absolute irrevocable guarantee from God of eternal redemption through the very indwelling presence of God the Holy Spirit. It is our seal that we ARE His for eternity.

Surety:

2 a : a formal engagement (as a pledge) given for the fulfillment of an undertaking : GUARANTEE b : a basis of confidence or security

Main Entry: 3earnest
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ernes, ernest, from Anglo-French arres, erres, plural of erre earnest, from Latin arra, short for arrabo, from Greek arrhabOn, of Semitic origin; akin to Hebrew 'ErAbhOn pledge
1 : something of value given by a buyer to a seller to bind a bargain
2 : a token of what is to come : PLEDGE

It is within the heart of the Believer that the Holy Spirit produces spiritual fruit, and this fruit is evidence of the sealing of the Believer which has taken place.

A fruit of the Spirit is faith, and it is this faith by which we are saved.

Ephesians 2:
8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Galations 5:
22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23: Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Caretaker
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We are justified solely through the Blood of Christ.


Romans 5:1,9 “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:” “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.” Man’s legal standing with Heaven is one of condemnation, and worthy of the righteous wrath of almighty God. Romans 3:23 “ For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God;”

Justification is the act of God whereby He accepts the blood of Christ as the complete and satisfying sacrifice for all human sin, propitiation, thus changing our legal status and establishing a means of reconciliation with man.

Believers are justified by the grace of God through faith. Titus 3:7 “That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” Romans 3:28 “ Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” We see that the status of man is changed from that of the condemned to that of an heir, one who is able to inherit. Thus man is reconciled to God through the propitiation of Jesus Christ and restored to full legal righteous standing.


If one is truly saved, justified, then the Holy Spirit will begin the process of Sanctification, with the evidence of the Fruit of the Spirit. The Believer will turn their heart more and more to God, and thus from the heart keep His Commandments.


The word sanctification means to be set apart. The Holy Spirit is endeavoring to make the believer holy (set apart from the world), and spiritual (set apart to reflect the character of God). This is being accomplished in four phases.

First, the believer at conversion in receiving Christ, is set apart from sin (forgiven) and set apart to Christ, this is preparational sanctification. Matt. 23:19 “Ye fools and blind; for which is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift.”
Second, the believer is set apart from the worldly realm and is set apart to the Heavenly realm, this is positional sanctification. John 17:21 “That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
The third form of sanctification sets apart the believer from the “old man” (sin nature), to the “new man” (thirst after righteousness). This is practical sanctification. 1Thess. 5:23 “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
The fourth form of sanctification sets apart from the stain of sin and sets us apart to be presented pure and without blemish before the judgment seat of Christ. This is prospective sanctification. Eph. 5:27 “That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.


What could be clearer than the contrast of fleshly fruit and spiritual fruit found in Galations 5:
19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26
Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.


And these are the commandments which we are to keep:

1 John 3:

23: And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24: And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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WildB
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How old is the baby Jesus in You?

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That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
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quote:
That is all.....

[Confused]

[updown]

quote:
I sugjest you study sanctification, the process of making holy. Salvation is a act not a process!

Salvation is an act! You can have it. You can abandon it!

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. Because, 1cor10:5-10 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

[Eek!]

Sanctification is not a process. If it is, then salvation is also.

quote:
Heb.6
[1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[3] And this will we do, if God permit.
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Perhaps you should read it more slowly. It says that they 'Crucify the Son of God afresh.' So " it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance."

It is impossible to renew! My, that is strong verbage!

If you Crucify the Son afresh, it is a sad situation. Crucify! Consider the word. It means that you put Him on the Cross again, nullifying His resurrection. You reject! Moreover, moving on, it says 'let us go on to perfection'. That means that you get beyond the notion that sanctification is a process.

Have you repented from dead works? If not, you Crucify the Son afresh through your unbelief, and you are unable to receive the meaty revelation of the word.

Heb 5:14 "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

Recieve your salvation, your sanctification!
Heb 6:7 "For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:"

Or fall short by fruitless understanding of the word:
Heb 6:8 "But that which beareth thorns and briars is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned."

Pay attention to this! The reason that Paul says that, Php 3:11 “I do not consider myself to have attained resurrection from the dead,” is that he knew that he could fall into temptation and override God’s grace. This is the very reason he also says, “if you endure to the end, you will be save.”

Php3:12 "but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus."

He follows after, 'to have' that which he is also apprehended of, in other words, what Jesus desires for him 'to have', his salvation sealed, eternally (after which, he cannot fall away).

Get ahold of this and you might become 'tame' wild.

Having said that, lest any be discouraged,
2Ti 1:12 "for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
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Your thinking is not Biblical....Maybe Dave will waste his time on this. Not me. You seam to be set in your error.

As for me and my house Christ has given us ETERNAL life.

John.3
[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


I sugjest you study sanctification, the process of making holy. Salvation is a act not a process!

Rom.10
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.



NO WERE CAN YOU FIND THE LOSS OF SALVATION IN THE NEXT TEXT. You will find that a believer who has fallen from grace, puts Christ to an open shame.

Heb.6
[1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[3] And this will we do, if God permit.
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
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quote:
1John.5
[16] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Do you think that this refers to physical death? I never even once thought that it was referring to physical, but spiritual death.

Mat 12:31 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

There is a sin unto death (1John5:16)

You are being saved, and if you die in sin, games over! You don't have anything that you do not receive and walk in. So if you say that you are being sanctified, you are, but it takes two. If you do not participate, you are not! Your house is on sinking sand.

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
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You post "You are being saved"

Try "You are being sanctified "...

Stop your sillyness.


PS once you are SEALED with the Holy Spirit you can't get un-sealed. However you can sin a sin which will cause your life to be shortened.

1John.5
[16] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

1Cor.5
[5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


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That is all.....

Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
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I believe that the greatest heresy in the church is ‘once saved, always saved’. For, you are not saved. You are being saved. You are born again if you have believed that Jesus was born of a virgin, died and rose again for you, and you have surrendered to His will for you. You are saved if you endure to the end.

You do not consider yourself to have attained (Php 3:12) wherein the freshness is locked in, sealed, never to be reversed. This is not to be confused with having attained perfection of faith of working relationship, a gift of grace, as in the finished work, and therefore the blessed union He died for you to have in this life (so that you may reach the end).

But when Jesus comes into your heart, He comes as a baby Jesus, into a manger. If He is not fed through faith, He stays a baby, or maybe he dies away. This is the parable of the talents, and of the sewer. It is so sad that many go on with life with a still born within. That which he thought he had is taken and given to him who had ten.

Think of a cornfield. Say that rains come and sprinkle the field so that all the corn begins to grow. Later, rain only gets one side of the field, and again the same, until corn on one end is tall and healthy. Some in the middle is less so, and the corn on the other end is dead. It reached a foot high, then couldn’t be watered, and was dead. It still looks like corn from a distance, to some, but is actually like that passage, “having a form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof.” It has no life in it though it looks like a stalk, and is still standing.

This is like the corn that fell on rocks, but had no root and couldn’t grow, that withered away. Speaking of corn, some fell among the thorns (Mk 4:7) and brought forth no fruit. These are the Christians who are either worldly minded and love their life in this world, or they who defeat the work of the Spirit by their own works through superfluity of zeal. For example, in order to love the Lord with all your heart, soul and mind, you have to quit trying – the opposite of doing. God works in mysterious ways.

You increase, with the increase of God. Faith grows. Sanctification shows. You have an eye opening experience when the Spirit Graces you. If born again is the baby stage, this is the adolescent stage. It is here where we try to imitate Christ, like kids try to imitate their parents.

We cannot though. We are not called to either. Only Christ can imitate Christ. But we want to be like Him, so we try, and sermons are preached to this tune, made to order. Don’t believe them though. However, Christ can be Christ through us, literally, if we yield to Him through faith, and quit trying to do it for Him.

So, are there any other heresies out there besides the one where people accept their salvation as a fact, and do not live pleasing to Jesus? Will he not say to these, "depart from me. i never knew you."

These will be cast into the lake of fire. The hardest part is, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. It will not be from those who primarily flat out rejected Christ's offer, as much as from those who had no doubt about salvation, but were wrong. Doesn't it hurt to think about it? I hurt thinking about it.

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator


 
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