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Author Topic: Positive Confession
WildB
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Servant of Sillyness Mr Black,


I can see how you find this topic most amazing, but I must remind you to consider Jobs Pertection.

and most of your Vx2 script is Trickery.


Posted to draw out the stong in pride.


Repent while the day is yet called day.


For the baseball fans know the real score.

2Cor.4
[1] Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
[2] But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
[3] But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
[4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
[5] For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

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That is all.....

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Mike Black
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WildB,

I could not agree more! The things you posted from those books are more right than you probably even know! And I applaud you for your intensive reasearch!

The sources you cited had the idea down pat. What you are describing is the human will, which is much more powerful than most people think it. Everyone has a divine spark in them because we are the creation of divinity. Words are an expression of our will and our will is the power to do or change things. When you put your will into words, you are amplifying that will. Words and will and action are what makes things happen!

We are not merely ameba to the gods. Even they know of the potential we have, even if most of us don't. What you are describing is magick, and it exists within us all, even though most of us either don't realize it or choose to ignore it. Yahweh doesn't want us to know this. You yourself said "We are told by God Himself that He spoke the creation into existence (Genesis 1). He has not given that power to anyone else!" If only Yahweh was responsible for our creation, he probably would have intentionally crippled us this way!

When we project our will through words, if the will is strong enough and we make no attempt to hold it back, we are displaying the godlike powers that are a part of our very own DNA.

Food for thought.

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Good NewsforAll
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I didn't bring up the subject of WOF'ers. Obviously it is a free-for-all to drag them in the mud as much as you want, but democratically you can't stand up for them and defend any slander against them. [Confused]

I haven't said a word promoting the prosperity gospel, just commented on the video.

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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"


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KnowHim
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Please read the below rules that you were suppost to read before signing up for this message board:

http://www.thechristianbbs.com/rules2.html

This message boards purpose it to bring glory and honor to the Lord Jesus Christ not to man. We do not promote the prosperity gospel preachers on this message board. You have been asked not to teach this false gospel. There will be no warning from here on, you will just be removed from this message board. This is not debatable.

David

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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by sevenlamps:
The bible says if anyone prays in a tongue he should ask for the interpretation so that it can be edifying to the church.

I have heard WOF preachers speaking in tongues, only briefly, and not with a big splash like this video purports, and it doesn't sound like that.

You have to wonder about the motives of the makers of such videos. [Frown]

Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

James 4:11 Brothers, do not slander one another.Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.

1 Peter 2:1 Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.

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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"


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becauseHElives
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The clip is not altered in any way, I have a 4 hour DVD of this kind of trash going on in the so called Church ??????.

It is amazing how stupid and gullible human are.

I was one.

I thank Yahweh He loved me enough to open my eyes to the deception of Word of Faith teaching, I was one for a long time. I graduated 4 years Word of Faith.

Thing I saw done to deceive people by Bennie Hinn, Oral Roberts, Richard Roberts, Kenneth Copeland, Jerry Seville, and the list goes on

If you love the Truth, Yahweh will open your eyes.

If you enjoy playing games Yahweh will gladly send you a strong delusion that you may believe a lie and be damned.

2Th 2:12
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Good NewsforAll
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That video is doctored. [Eek!] Speaking in tongues doesn't sound like that at all. It has more of a Hebrew sound.

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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"


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sevenlamps
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There is not enough information in that clip IAA to make a judgement on it. You criticize it but give no scriptural references yourself. To do so is to say that you understand all manifestations of the Spirit. Spiritual gifts are excercised by faith. That's all I saw on the clip is two guys exercising their gift by faith. The bible says if anyone prays in a tongue he should ask for the interpretation so that it can be edifying to the church. Is that part on the clip? I couldn't judge it without seeing that part of it. Also if there was something that bothered me I would want to talk to the people to hear their testimony of what happened.

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Don't grieve the Holy Spirit

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IAAFOTL
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Hmmm I wonder why no one has commented on that video yet.... [Confused] (above) I would be interested in your thoughts regarding it. I should mention that I do believe in the Biblical gift of tongues and do possess the gift, however, the above video of Kenneth Copeland and Rodney Howard Browne's demonstration is clearly unBiblical at best and demonic at worst imo.

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Study to show yourself approved, a workman unto God who needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
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IAAFOTL
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There is no doubt, that God wants His people prosperous. Not just financially, but wealthy in health and in spiritual truths and power.

The world is not going to look to prosper the gospel,that's for sure so the saints of the Kingdom must have it in order to give it.
The world is also limited by means of healing and wholeness as well, which the Holy Spirit is not.

The church has barely tapped into the power that has been given to us in stewardship through Christ to give to the world.

We, with the power of finances, given us by the Lord for the sake of the gospel of Christ, should be able to outreach additionally to the physical needs of people. And yes, God determines who is faithful in the little things and will make them rulers over much.

I do not believe that God intends for us to misappropriate funds though. Good stewardship, I do not believe consists of 10M jets and $2500 a night hotel rooms. That is ridiculous.

Also, why are these big ministries trying to handle all of the ministry themselves? Why are they not duplicating and training up and supporting more and more missionaries? Why do we need to send money so that SO AND SO can reach the nations? Why isn't SO AND SO, funding more laborers for the harvest? I'll be glad to go coach, or in the hull of a ship.

I used to listen to Kenneth Copeland. I never heard him say anything unBiblical (not that I listened to every message, but this video did it for me. I will never listen to him again.)I already had my reservations regarding Rodney Howard Brown, but this video confirmed those reservations as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mqkt7nHong

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Study to show yourself approved, a workman unto God who needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
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My screen name stands for "I am a Friend of The Lord's"

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sevenlamps
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I know that some people are misusing the prosperity message but the posts here have not convinced me that God does not want us to prosper for the sake of spreading the gospel. He who has been given much, much will be required. Aaron stated God did not give His creative power to anyone else. But if you read Genesis correctly, it states He created us in His image. What does that mean to you? You better study that out because God does not make cheap imitations. The bible says the mouth speaks what the heart is filled with. When you determine in your heart that what comes out of your mouth will agree with God's word, then you have begun a good discipline. When a father listens to his children speak, if everything the child speaks agrees with the father, he may still not bring all of it to fruition, only what he chooses for the child. Likewise our heavenly Father chooses what He will give us. That will depend on how much we can steward properly. He will be the judge of that, not us. But would you rather say disagreeable things and expect your Father to give you good things you never asked for. Faith pleases God. Wildb ends his dialogue by stating that this kind of activity is tantamount to occultic practice. I should remind you that attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil is considered blasphemy. When you judge in that manner you come perilously close to that. The Holy Spirit leads us to Jesus, the Word. If people constantly declare the word in their lives, how can that be occultic. Satan comes as an angel of light and causes deception. But he won't persevere in the Word because he cannot stand the real light of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I have heard testimonies of some of these word/faith teachers. Ken Coopeland stated when he started in ministry, his whole ministry fit into a station wagon. He also would give back up to 95% of his ministry income, by sowing it into fertile ministries. Many of those seeds gave harvests of a hundredfold decades later. We are human vessels trying to do the perfect will of God. Do you think any of us have not made mistakes? I agree some corrections with love are necessary. The bible says go to that person and discuss it. If you don't resolve it, get a couple more brethren and confront him again. If that doesn't work then bring him in before the body of believers. Abraham was wealthy. God blessed the Israelites mightily before they left Egypt. And if you are still sceptic, Jesus told Peter to catch a fish and check in his MOUTH for money to pay their taxes. I don't feel the message is incorret if it is revealing the Word of God. But we should check the fruit of the messenger to make sure it is also the Word of God. Paul stated he learned to live with or without provision. But remember one thing, God will provide for the spread of the gospel, no matter what the cost. Consider the population explosion. With more people able to produce supplies, we should expect that God will continue to increase the expansion of those supplies. There are still people to feed,clothe,heal,deliver,protect, and liberate. With half a trillion dollars spent on the war in Iraq I really believe we believers in the U.S. could have been more effective by getting over our faulty "separation of church and state" fallacy and investing that money in the distribution of the gospel. It shows you something is wrong with our politics. It's in Daniel chapter 2. I will let you do the homework on this. If you don't understand it ask the Holy Spirit to reveal it to you. Then contac me for discussion. The kingdom of God is near you, even in your mouth.

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Don't grieve the Holy Spirit

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IAAFOTL
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Dear Goodnews,

I certainly cannot speak for everyone here, as some may definitely be against faith in the Word of God bringing about manifestations of that which you have believed, but I for one have absolutely tasted and proven for myself that He and His Word is faithful and true, otherwise I would be pushing up daisies right now (actually my body would probably be a skeleton by now as it has been years. Anyone interested can go to the testimonies page on my website and read the testimony of my miraculous healing.)

But there are definitely "qualifiers" if you will throughout the Word of God. For instance, a double minded man, can make positive professions all day long, but receive nothing from God. Why? Because he wavers between belief and unbelief and the Word says he is therefore unstable in all of his ways, and let not that man think he will receive anything from God. (James 1:6-8) He is not believing nor asking in faith. He is merely speaking the word of God as though by some kind of magic, it will come true. No. This is not how it is done. That is by definition, witchcraft, as it has nothing to do with a relationship with the Lord Himself, the giver of good gifts, the Father of Lights, and having trust in Him who is the author of the Word. It is merely "hocus pocus" otherwise, and THAT is what I believe many here are speaking against as far as false teaching goes.

Jesus said, "Believe me not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwells in me, he does the works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it." John 14:10-14

The qualifier is BELIEVE. This is not head knowledge. This is heart and spirit knowledge.

First of all if we really believed (this is to the scoffers and mockers)in Jesus Christ and His purpose, we wouldn't be thinking of asking for a cadillac. (I really get sick of hearing that analogy. For a person to bring that up is evidence they do not have on the mind of Christ.)

If we seek first the Kingdom of God and all its righteousness, THEN all of whatever it is we need or desire (which as we grow closer to the Lord, desires change btw), ALL of those things will be added unto us.

Solomon asked for wisdom. That was very pleasing to the Lord. And we can see that Solomon lacked nothing. How much more so would this be true of those who have been purchased and redeemed by the blood of the lamb, when we seek after the things of God?

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Study to show yourself approved, a workman unto God who needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
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My screen name stands for "I am a Friend of The Lord's"

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Good NewsforAll
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I can never understand why 'Positive Confessons' is always such a controversial issue. The Bible is saturated with positive confessions. Every speaker I have ever listened to agrees that you have to have the right motives and heart to receive mighty blessings.

I sometimes think Christians are blinded to the unbelievable strength and power that is available to us.

Matthew 7:7 “Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened.

Matthew 19: 26 Jesus looked at them intently and said, “Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But with God everything is possible.”

Matthew 21:21 Then Jesus told them, “I tell you the truth, if you have faith and don’t doubt, you can do things like this and much more. You can even say to this mountain, ‘May you be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and it will happen. 22 You can pray for anything, and if you have faith, you will receive it.

Luke 17:6 He replied, "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it will obey you.

Phil.4:13 I can do everything through him who gives me strength.

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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"


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IAAFOTL
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Excellent post!

quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
No, GoodNewsforAll, the Word of Faith teachers pervert scripture.

They say a believer has the right to command Yahweh to do what they think the scripture teach.

Prosperity is not a promise to all that believe. Yes Yahweh meets all our needs but most of us have way more than we need and are not making sure our brother or sisters needs are being meet.

quote:
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness ; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings , Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. I Tim. 6: 3-5
"Faith Without Intimacy Is No Faith At All"
________________________________________
By David Wilkerson
March 25, 2002
________________________________________
I've always wondered at a question Jesus asks in Luke 18:8: "Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" What could the Lord mean by this? As I look around at the church of Jesus Christ today, I think no other generation has been so focused on faith as ours.

Everyone seems to be talking about faith. Sermons on the topic abound. Seminars and conferences on faith are held across the country. Books on the subject line the shelves of Christian bookstores. Multitudes of Christians flock to meetings to be propped up and encouraged by a message on faith.

Today there are faith preachers, faith teachers, faith movements, even faith churches. Clearly, if there is one type of subject specialization taking place in the church today, it's on this matter of faith.

Yet, sadly, what most people consider to be faith today isn't faith at all. In fact, God will reject much of what's being called and practiced as faith. He simply won't accept it. Why? It's corrupted faith.

Many preachers today totally humanize the topic of faith. They describe faith as if it exists only for personal gain or to meet self-needs. I've heard some pastors declare, "Faith isn't about asking God for what you need. It's about asking him for what you can dream of. If you can dream it, you can have it."

The faith these men preach is earthbound, rooted in this world, materialistic. It urges believers to pray, "Lord, bless me, prosper me, give to me." The needs of a lost world are not considered. I can't say strongly enough: this kind of faith is not what God is desiring of us. It cannot be about gain without godliness.
There's a particularly dangerous doctrine of faith being espoused today. It claims that the godliest believers are those who have "worked their faith" to gain a comfortable living for themselves. According to this doctrine, the people we're to emulate are those who drive the biggest, most expensive cars, and own the largest, most lavish homes.

This is absolute heresy. If it were so, then the saintliest believers would be those who gouge others financially. It would mean our daily focus is to work every angle for our own gain. That's simply not the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Yet my focus in this message isn't on prosperity preachers or doctrines of personal gain. It's on those who truly love Jesus, and who want to live by faith in a way that pleases him. My message to every such believer is this: all true faith is born out of intimacy with Christ. In fact, if your faith doesn't come out of such intimacy, it isn't faith at all in his sight.
________________________________________
Hebrews 11 speaks of a biblical pattern ________________________________________
As we read Hebrews 11, we find a single common denominator to the lives of the people mentioned. Each had a particular characteristic that denotes the kind of faith God loves. What was this element? Their faith was born of deep intimacy with the Lord.

The fact is, it's impossible to have a faith that pleases God without sharing intimacy with him. What do I mean by intimacy? I'm speaking of a closeness to the Lord that comes from yearning after him. This kind of intimacy is a close personal bond, a communion. It comes when we desire the Lord more than anything else in this life.

Let's look at just four examples of faith-filled servants who walked closely with God, as mentioned in Hebrews 11:

1. Our first example is Abel. Scripture declares, "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh" (Hebrews 11:4).

I want to note several significant things about this verse. First, God himself testified of Abel's gifts, or offerings. (Note that there was more than one offering. Abel clearly offered sacrifices to the Lord on a frequent basis.)
Second, Abel had to build an altar to the Lord, where he brought his sacrifices. And he offered not only unspotted lambs for the sacrifice, but the fat of those lambs as well. Scripture tells us, "And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof" (Genesis 4:4).

What does the fat signify here? The book of Leviticus says of the fat, "It is the food of the offering made by fire for a sweet savour: all the fat is the Lord's" (Leviticus 3:16). In short, the fat is food to God.

You see, the fat was the part of the sacrifice that caused a sweet aroma to rise. This part of the animal caught flame quickly and was consumed, bringing about the sweet smell. The Lord said of the fat, "It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that he eat neither fat nor blood" (3:17). The fat is the Lord's.

The fat here serves as a type of prayer or fellowship that's acceptable to God. It represents our ministry to the Lord in the secret closet of prayer. And the Lord himself states that such intimate worship rises to him like a sweet-smelling savor.

The Bible's first mention of this kind of worship is by Abel. Abel allowed the sacrifice and the fat to be consumed on the altar of the Lord. That means he waited in God's presence until his sacrifice rose up to heaven.

This is why Abel is listed in Hebrews 11's hall of faith. He's a type of servant who was in fellowship with the Lord, offering him the best of all he had. As Hebrews declares, Abel's example lives on today as a testimony of true, living faith: "He being dead yet speaketh" (Hebrews 11:4).

How did Abel obtain such faith? Think of the amazing conversations this young man must have overheard between his parents, Adam and Even. The couple obviously spoke of their former days in the garden with the Lord. No doubt they mentioned their wonderful times of fellowship with God, walking and talking with him in the cool of the day.

Imagine what went through Abel's mind as he heard these stories. He probably thought, "How marvelous that must have been. My father and mother had a living relationship with the Creator himself."

As Abel pondered this, he must have made a decision in his heart: he determined he wouldn't live off his parents' history. He couldn't settle for a mere tradition passed on to him. He had to have his own touch of God.

Could it be that Abel told himself, "I don't want to hear any more about past experiences with the Lord. I want to know him now, for myself, today. I want a relationship with him, to have fellowship and commune with him."
This is the very kind of "fat" we're to offer God today. Like Abel, we're to give him the best of our time, in our secret closet of prayer. And we're to spend sufficient time there, in his presence, allowing him to consume our offerings of intimate worship and fellowship.

Now, compare Abel's offering to that of his brother, Cain. Cain brought fruit to the Lord, an offering that didn't require an altar. There was no fat, no oil, nothing to be consumed. As a result, there was no sweet aroma to rise up to heaven.

In other words, there was no intimacy involved, no personal exchange between Cain and the Lord. You see, Cain brought a sacrifice that didn't require that he stay in God's presence, seeking his fellowship. This is why Scripture says Abel's offering was "more excellent" than Cain's.
Now, make no mistake: God honored the sacrifice that Cain brought to him. But the Lord looks on the heart, and he knew Cain didn't yearn to be in his presence. That was clear in the sacrifice Cain chose to offer.

In my opinion, Cain represents many Christians today. Such believers go to church each week, worshipping God and asking him to bless and prosper them. But they have no desire for intimacy with the Lord. They want their heavenly Father to answer their prayers, but they don't desire a relationship with him. They don't seek his face, long for his closeness, yearn for his communion. Like Cain, they simply have no desire to linger in his presence.

By contrast, the intimate, faithful servant seeks God's touch in his life. Like Abel, he won't settle for anything less. This servant tells himself, "I'm determined to give the Lord all the time he wants from me in fellowship. I long to hear his still, small voice speak to me. So I'm going to stay in his presence until he tells me he's satisfied."

2. Enoch also enjoyed close fellowship with the Lord. In fact, his communion with God was so intimate, the Lord translated him to glory long before his life on earth might have ended. "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God" (Hebrews 11:5).

Why did the Lord choose to translate Enoch? The opening words of this verse tell us very plainly: it was because of his faith. Moreover, the closing phrase tells us Enoch's faith pleased God. The Greek root word for pleased here means fully united, wholly agreeable, in total oneness. In short, Enoch had the closest possible communion with the Lord that any human being could enjoy. And this intimate fellowship was pleasing to God.

The Bible tells us Enoch began walking with the Lord after he begot his son, Methuselah. Enoch was sixty-five at the time. He then spent the next 300 years fellowshipping with God intimately. Hebrews makes it clear that Enoch was so in touch with the Father, so close to him in hourly communion, God chose to bring him home to himself. The Lord said to Enoch, in essence, "I can't take you any further in the flesh. To increase my intimacy with you, I have to bring you to my side." So he whisked Enoch away to glory.

According to Scripture, it was Enoch's intimacy that so pleased God. To our knowledge, this man never performed a miracle, never developed a profound theology, never did any great works worthy of mention in Scripture. Instead, we read this simple description of this faithful man's life: "Enoch walked with God."

Enoch had intimate communion with the Father. And his life is yet another testimony of what it means to truly walk in faith.

3. Our next example of a close walk of faith with God is Noah. Hebrews tells us, "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith" (Hebrews 11:7).
As we read this man's story in Genesis, we discover that "Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord" (Genesis 6:8). The next verse tells us how he found this grace: "Noah walked with God" (6:9). Noah clearly knew God's voice. Whenever the Lord spoke to him, he obeyed. Over and over we read, "The Lord said unto Noah" and "Noah obeyed the word of the Lord" (see 6:13, 22; 7:1, 5; 8:15, 18).

Try to imagine the amount of time Noah must have spent alone with God. After all, he had to receive detailed instructions from the Lord on how to build the ark. Yet Noah's intimacy with God went beyond the direction he received. Scripture says the Lord shared his heart with Noah, showing him the evil in humans' hearts. And he revealed to Noah his plans for the future of humankind.

4. Abraham also shared intimate fellowship with the Lord. Consider the way God himself described his relationship with this man: "Abraham my friend" (Isaiah 41:8). Likewise, the New Testament tells us, "Abraham believed God" and he was called the "Friend of God" (James 2:23).
What an incredible commendation, to be called the friend of God. Most Christians have sung the well-known hymn, "What a Friend We Have In Jesus." These biblical passages bring home that truth with power. To have the Creator of the universe call a man his friend seems beyond human comprehension. Yet it happened with Abraham. It's a sign of this man's great intimacy with God.

The Hebrew word that Isaiah uses for friend here signifies affection and closeness. And in Greek, James' word for friend means a dear, close associate. Both imply a deep, shared intimacy.
________________________________________
The result of intimacy is not only a close affection for the Lord, but also an ever-increasing detachment from this world.
________________________________________
The closer we grow to Christ, the greater our desire becomes to live wholly in his presence. Moreover, we begin to see more clearly that Jesus is our only true foundation.

The Bible tells us Abraham "looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God" (Hebrews 11:10). To Abraham, nothing in this life was permanent. Scripture says the world was "a strange place" to him. It was no place to put down roots.

Yet Abraham was no mystic. He wasn't an ascetic who put on holy airs and lived in a spiritual haze. This man lived an earthy life, heavily involved in the world's affairs. After all, he was the owner of thousands of head of livestock. And he had enough servants to form a small militia. Abraham had to be a busy man, directing his servants and buying and selling his cattle, sheep and goats.

Yet somehow, despite his many business affairs and responsibilities, Abraham found time for intimacy with the Lord. And because he walked closely with God, he grew more and more dissatisfied with this world. Abraham was wealthy, prosperous, with plenty of good things to keep him occupied. Yet nothing in this life could distract him from yearning for the heavenly country ahead. Each day, he longed more and more to be closer to that better place.
The heavenly country Abraham yearned for isn't a literal place. Rather, it's being home with the Father. You see, the Hebrew word for this phrase, "heavenly country," is Pater. It comes from a root word meaning Father. So, the heavenly country Abraham sought was, literally, a place with the Father.

What does this mean to us today? It means that moving on toward that heavenly country isn't just about attaining heaven someday in the future. It's about longing daily to experience the Father's presence right now.

Hebrews tells us that all four of the men I've mentioned - Abel, Enoch, Noah and Abraham - died in faith (see Hebrews 11). Each man was detached from the spirit of his age. And each was seeking a different country. The world simply wasn't their home.

Yet this doesn't mean they were waiting until they got to heaven to enjoy closeness with the Father. On the contrary, as pilgrims passing through this life, they continually sought the presence of God. Nothing on earth could stop them from moving forward, seeking a deeper and closer walk with the Father.

By their faithful examples, these men were saying, "I'm looking for a place closer to my Father. And that place is beyond what this world has to offer. I cherish the many blessed gifts God has given me in my beloved family and godly friends. Nothing in this world could replace the love I have for them. But I know there's an even greater love to be experienced with the Father."
Hebrews 11 speaks of many others whose close walk of faith pleased the Lord. By faith, these servants wrought great miracles and did many astonishing things. And as we examine their lives, we see they too shared the same common denominator: they all forsook this world and its pleasures to walk closely with God.

Can you make this same claim? Does your heart yearn for a closer walk with the Lord? Is there a growing dissatisfaction in you with the things of this world? Or, is your heart attached to temporal things?
________________________________________
Without intimacy, your faith isn't true faith ________________________________________

Mark 4 relates a story with Jesus and his disciples in a boat, being tossed about on a stormy sea. As we pick up the scene, Christ has just calmed the waves with a single command. Now he turns to his disciples and asks, "How is it that ye have no faith?" (Mark 4:40).

You may think this sounds harsh. It was only human to fear in such a storm. But Jesus wasn't chiding them for that reason. Rather, he was telling them, "After all this time with me, you still don't know who I am. How could you possibly walk with me for this long, and not know me intimately?"

Indeed, the disciples were astonished by the amazing miracle Jesus had just performed. Scripture says, "They feared exceedingly, and said to one another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?" (4:41).
Can you imagine it? Jesus' own disciples didn't know him. He had personally called each one of these men to follow him. And they had ministered alongside him, to multitudes of people. They'd performed miracles of healing, and fed masses of hungry people. But they were still strangers to who their Master really was.

Tragically, the same is true today. Multitudes of Christians have ridden in the boat with Jesus, ministered alongside him, reached multitudes in his name. But they really don't know their Master. They haven't spent intimate time shut in with him. They've never sat quietly in his presence, opening their hearts to him, waiting and listening to comprehend what he wants to say to them.

We see another scene regarding the disciples' faith in Luke 17. The disciples came to Jesus, asking, "Increase our faith" (Luke 17:5).
Many Christians today ask the same question: "How can I obtain faith?" But they don't seek the Lord himself for their answer. Instead, they rush off to seminars that claim to teach believers how to increase their faith. Or, they buy stacks of books that offer ten quick steps to an increased faith. Or, they travel hundreds of miles to listen to lectures on faith by prominent evangelists and teachers.

I can tell you without doubt, you'll never truly increase your faith in any of these ways. If you want increased faith, you have to do the same thing Jesus told his disciples to do in this passage. How did he answer their request for faith? "Gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken" (17:8).

Jesus was saying, in essence, "Put on your garment of patience. Then come to my table and sup with me. I want you to feed me there. You happily labor for me all day long. Now I want you to commune with me. Sit down with me, open your heart, and learn of me. There are so many things I wish to speak into your life."

Don't settle for any more theological explanations of faith. Don't look for any more steps to try to obtain it. Just get alone with Jesus, and let him speak his heart to you. True faith is born in the secret closet of intimate prayer. So, go to Jesus and learn of him. If you spend quality time in his presence, faith will surely come. He'll birth faith in your soul as you've never known it. Believe me, when you hear his still, small voice speaking, faith will explode inside you.
________________________________________
That heavenly country - the city with foundations, sought by generations before us - is the place
we now live.

________________________________________
That place, that city, is in Christ by faith. The rest our fathers yearned for is found in him. We have received today the promise they could only foresee and embrace by faith.
Jesus said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad" (John 8:56). Abraham foresaw a day when Christ would come to earth and build the foundation he envisioned. And the patriarch rejoiced in knowing a blessed people would live in that day. He knew they would enjoy uninterrupted access to heavenly conversation and communion with God.
Today, however, many Christians are missing this promise completely. Instead, they live in needless turmoil. They scurry here and there, trying to work up a faith that "gets results." They're constantly caught in a rush of activities, doing things for God that in the end are merely burdensome. They're never fully at rest in Christ. Why? They don't simply shut themselves in with the Lord, to spend quiet time alone with him.

If you're in love with someone, you want to be in that person's presence. You both want to share yourselves with one another, opening your hearts and becoming intimate. The same is true of our relationship with Jesus. If we love him, we ought to constantly be thinking, "I want to be with my Lord. I want to enjoy his presence. So I'm going to draw near to him, and wait in his presence until I know he's satisfied. I'll stay until I hear him say, "Go now, and rejoice in my love."

In recent days, I've heard the Lord's still, small voice whisper something to me after my times of prayer with him. He says, "David, please don't go yet. Stay with me. There are so few who commune with me, so few who love me, so few who stay to hear my heart. And I have so much to share." It's almost a cry, a plea that I hear in his voice.

Then the Lord tells me, "Let me show you where I find your faith, David. It's in your coming to me. It's in your waiting on me, and ministering to me, until you hear and know what's on my heart."

"Your faith is in your growing desire to come into my presence. It's in your looking forward to our next time together. It's in that sense you've developed, that being alone with me is the joy of your life."

"It's no longer work for you to draw near to me, no longer a difficult labor. Now you look forward to it all day long. You know that when your labors are finished, you're going to come to me, to feed me and commune with me."
This is true faith.



--------------------
Study to show yourself approved, a workman unto God who needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
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My screen name stands for "I am a Friend of The Lord's"

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becauseHElives
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No, GoodNewsforAll, the Word of Faith teachers pervert scripture.

They say a believer has the right to command Yahweh to do what they think the scripture teach.

Prosperity is not a promise to all that believe. Yes Yahweh meets all our needs but most of us have way more than we need and are not making sure our brother or sisters needs are being meet.

quote:
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness ; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings , Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. I Tim. 6: 3-5
"Faith Without Intimacy Is No Faith At All"
________________________________________
By David Wilkerson
March 25, 2002
________________________________________
I've always wondered at a question Jesus asks in Luke 18:8: "Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" What could the Lord mean by this? As I look around at the church of Jesus Christ today, I think no other generation has been so focused on faith as ours.

Everyone seems to be talking about faith. Sermons on the topic abound. Seminars and conferences on faith are held across the country. Books on the subject line the shelves of Christian bookstores. Multitudes of Christians flock to meetings to be propped up and encouraged by a message on faith.

Today there are faith preachers, faith teachers, faith movements, even faith churches. Clearly, if there is one type of subject specialization taking place in the church today, it's on this matter of faith.

Yet, sadly, what most people consider to be faith today isn't faith at all. In fact, God will reject much of what's being called and practiced as faith. He simply won't accept it. Why? It's corrupted faith.

Many preachers today totally humanize the topic of faith. They describe faith as if it exists only for personal gain or to meet self-needs. I've heard some pastors declare, "Faith isn't about asking God for what you need. It's about asking him for what you can dream of. If you can dream it, you can have it."

The faith these men preach is earthbound, rooted in this world, materialistic. It urges believers to pray, "Lord, bless me, prosper me, give to me." The needs of a lost world are not considered. I can't say strongly enough: this kind of faith is not what God is desiring of us. It cannot be about gain without godliness.
There's a particularly dangerous doctrine of faith being espoused today. It claims that the godliest believers are those who have "worked their faith" to gain a comfortable living for themselves. According to this doctrine, the people we're to emulate are those who drive the biggest, most expensive cars, and own the largest, most lavish homes.

This is absolute heresy. If it were so, then the saintliest believers would be those who gouge others financially. It would mean our daily focus is to work every angle for our own gain. That's simply not the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Yet my focus in this message isn't on prosperity preachers or doctrines of personal gain. It's on those who truly love Jesus, and who want to live by faith in a way that pleases him. My message to every such believer is this: all true faith is born out of intimacy with Christ. In fact, if your faith doesn't come out of such intimacy, it isn't faith at all in his sight.
________________________________________
Hebrews 11 speaks of a biblical pattern ________________________________________
As we read Hebrews 11, we find a single common denominator to the lives of the people mentioned. Each had a particular characteristic that denotes the kind of faith God loves. What was this element? Their faith was born of deep intimacy with the Lord.

The fact is, it's impossible to have a faith that pleases God without sharing intimacy with him. What do I mean by intimacy? I'm speaking of a closeness to the Lord that comes from yearning after him. This kind of intimacy is a close personal bond, a communion. It comes when we desire the Lord more than anything else in this life.

Let's look at just four examples of faith-filled servants who walked closely with God, as mentioned in Hebrews 11:

1. Our first example is Abel. Scripture declares, "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh" (Hebrews 11:4).

I want to note several significant things about this verse. First, God himself testified of Abel's gifts, or offerings. (Note that there was more than one offering. Abel clearly offered sacrifices to the Lord on a frequent basis.)
Second, Abel had to build an altar to the Lord, where he brought his sacrifices. And he offered not only unspotted lambs for the sacrifice, but the fat of those lambs as well. Scripture tells us, "And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof" (Genesis 4:4).

What does the fat signify here? The book of Leviticus says of the fat, "It is the food of the offering made by fire for a sweet savour: all the fat is the Lord's" (Leviticus 3:16). In short, the fat is food to God.

You see, the fat was the part of the sacrifice that caused a sweet aroma to rise. This part of the animal caught flame quickly and was consumed, bringing about the sweet smell. The Lord said of the fat, "It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that he eat neither fat nor blood" (3:17). The fat is the Lord's.

The fat here serves as a type of prayer or fellowship that's acceptable to God. It represents our ministry to the Lord in the secret closet of prayer. And the Lord himself states that such intimate worship rises to him like a sweet-smelling savor.

The Bible's first mention of this kind of worship is by Abel. Abel allowed the sacrifice and the fat to be consumed on the altar of the Lord. That means he waited in God's presence until his sacrifice rose up to heaven.

This is why Abel is listed in Hebrews 11's hall of faith. He's a type of servant who was in fellowship with the Lord, offering him the best of all he had. As Hebrews declares, Abel's example lives on today as a testimony of true, living faith: "He being dead yet speaketh" (Hebrews 11:4).

How did Abel obtain such faith? Think of the amazing conversations this young man must have overheard between his parents, Adam and Even. The couple obviously spoke of their former days in the garden with the Lord. No doubt they mentioned their wonderful times of fellowship with God, walking and talking with him in the cool of the day.

Imagine what went through Abel's mind as he heard these stories. He probably thought, "How marvelous that must have been. My father and mother had a living relationship with the Creator himself."

As Abel pondered this, he must have made a decision in his heart: he determined he wouldn't live off his parents' history. He couldn't settle for a mere tradition passed on to him. He had to have his own touch of God.

Could it be that Abel told himself, "I don't want to hear any more about past experiences with the Lord. I want to know him now, for myself, today. I want a relationship with him, to have fellowship and commune with him."
This is the very kind of "fat" we're to offer God today. Like Abel, we're to give him the best of our time, in our secret closet of prayer. And we're to spend sufficient time there, in his presence, allowing him to consume our offerings of intimate worship and fellowship.

Now, compare Abel's offering to that of his brother, Cain. Cain brought fruit to the Lord, an offering that didn't require an altar. There was no fat, no oil, nothing to be consumed. As a result, there was no sweet aroma to rise up to heaven.

In other words, there was no intimacy involved, no personal exchange between Cain and the Lord. You see, Cain brought a sacrifice that didn't require that he stay in God's presence, seeking his fellowship. This is why Scripture says Abel's offering was "more excellent" than Cain's.
Now, make no mistake: God honored the sacrifice that Cain brought to him. But the Lord looks on the heart, and he knew Cain didn't yearn to be in his presence. That was clear in the sacrifice Cain chose to offer.

In my opinion, Cain represents many Christians today. Such believers go to church each week, worshipping God and asking him to bless and prosper them. But they have no desire for intimacy with the Lord. They want their heavenly Father to answer their prayers, but they don't desire a relationship with him. They don't seek his face, long for his closeness, yearn for his communion. Like Cain, they simply have no desire to linger in his presence.

By contrast, the intimate, faithful servant seeks God's touch in his life. Like Abel, he won't settle for anything less. This servant tells himself, "I'm determined to give the Lord all the time he wants from me in fellowship. I long to hear his still, small voice speak to me. So I'm going to stay in his presence until he tells me he's satisfied."

2. Enoch also enjoyed close fellowship with the Lord. In fact, his communion with God was so intimate, the Lord translated him to glory long before his life on earth might have ended. "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God" (Hebrews 11:5).

Why did the Lord choose to translate Enoch? The opening words of this verse tell us very plainly: it was because of his faith. Moreover, the closing phrase tells us Enoch's faith pleased God. The Greek root word for pleased here means fully united, wholly agreeable, in total oneness. In short, Enoch had the closest possible communion with the Lord that any human being could enjoy. And this intimate fellowship was pleasing to God.

The Bible tells us Enoch began walking with the Lord after he begot his son, Methuselah. Enoch was sixty-five at the time. He then spent the next 300 years fellowshipping with God intimately. Hebrews makes it clear that Enoch was so in touch with the Father, so close to him in hourly communion, God chose to bring him home to himself. The Lord said to Enoch, in essence, "I can't take you any further in the flesh. To increase my intimacy with you, I have to bring you to my side." So he whisked Enoch away to glory.

According to Scripture, it was Enoch's intimacy that so pleased God. To our knowledge, this man never performed a miracle, never developed a profound theology, never did any great works worthy of mention in Scripture. Instead, we read this simple description of this faithful man's life: "Enoch walked with God."

Enoch had intimate communion with the Father. And his life is yet another testimony of what it means to truly walk in faith.

3. Our next example of a close walk of faith with God is Noah. Hebrews tells us, "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith" (Hebrews 11:7).
As we read this man's story in Genesis, we discover that "Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord" (Genesis 6:8). The next verse tells us how he found this grace: "Noah walked with God" (6:9). Noah clearly knew God's voice. Whenever the Lord spoke to him, he obeyed. Over and over we read, "The Lord said unto Noah" and "Noah obeyed the word of the Lord" (see 6:13, 22; 7:1, 5; 8:15, 18).

Try to imagine the amount of time Noah must have spent alone with God. After all, he had to receive detailed instructions from the Lord on how to build the ark. Yet Noah's intimacy with God went beyond the direction he received. Scripture says the Lord shared his heart with Noah, showing him the evil in humans' hearts. And he revealed to Noah his plans for the future of humankind.

4. Abraham also shared intimate fellowship with the Lord. Consider the way God himself described his relationship with this man: "Abraham my friend" (Isaiah 41:8). Likewise, the New Testament tells us, "Abraham believed God" and he was called the "Friend of God" (James 2:23).
What an incredible commendation, to be called the friend of God. Most Christians have sung the well-known hymn, "What a Friend We Have In Jesus." These biblical passages bring home that truth with power. To have the Creator of the universe call a man his friend seems beyond human comprehension. Yet it happened with Abraham. It's a sign of this man's great intimacy with God.

The Hebrew word that Isaiah uses for friend here signifies affection and closeness. And in Greek, James' word for friend means a dear, close associate. Both imply a deep, shared intimacy.
________________________________________
The result of intimacy is not only a close affection for the Lord, but also an ever-increasing detachment from this world.
________________________________________
The closer we grow to Christ, the greater our desire becomes to live wholly in his presence. Moreover, we begin to see more clearly that Jesus is our only true foundation.

The Bible tells us Abraham "looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God" (Hebrews 11:10). To Abraham, nothing in this life was permanent. Scripture says the world was "a strange place" to him. It was no place to put down roots.

Yet Abraham was no mystic. He wasn't an ascetic who put on holy airs and lived in a spiritual haze. This man lived an earthy life, heavily involved in the world's affairs. After all, he was the owner of thousands of head of livestock. And he had enough servants to form a small militia. Abraham had to be a busy man, directing his servants and buying and selling his cattle, sheep and goats.

Yet somehow, despite his many business affairs and responsibilities, Abraham found time for intimacy with the Lord. And because he walked closely with God, he grew more and more dissatisfied with this world. Abraham was wealthy, prosperous, with plenty of good things to keep him occupied. Yet nothing in this life could distract him from yearning for the heavenly country ahead. Each day, he longed more and more to be closer to that better place.
The heavenly country Abraham yearned for isn't a literal place. Rather, it's being home with the Father. You see, the Hebrew word for this phrase, "heavenly country," is Pater. It comes from a root word meaning Father. So, the heavenly country Abraham sought was, literally, a place with the Father.

What does this mean to us today? It means that moving on toward that heavenly country isn't just about attaining heaven someday in the future. It's about longing daily to experience the Father's presence right now.

Hebrews tells us that all four of the men I've mentioned - Abel, Enoch, Noah and Abraham - died in faith (see Hebrews 11). Each man was detached from the spirit of his age. And each was seeking a different country. The world simply wasn't their home.

Yet this doesn't mean they were waiting until they got to heaven to enjoy closeness with the Father. On the contrary, as pilgrims passing through this life, they continually sought the presence of God. Nothing on earth could stop them from moving forward, seeking a deeper and closer walk with the Father.

By their faithful examples, these men were saying, "I'm looking for a place closer to my Father. And that place is beyond what this world has to offer. I cherish the many blessed gifts God has given me in my beloved family and godly friends. Nothing in this world could replace the love I have for them. But I know there's an even greater love to be experienced with the Father."
Hebrews 11 speaks of many others whose close walk of faith pleased the Lord. By faith, these servants wrought great miracles and did many astonishing things. And as we examine their lives, we see they too shared the same common denominator: they all forsook this world and its pleasures to walk closely with God.

Can you make this same claim? Does your heart yearn for a closer walk with the Lord? Is there a growing dissatisfaction in you with the things of this world? Or, is your heart attached to temporal things?
________________________________________
Without intimacy, your faith isn't true faith ________________________________________

Mark 4 relates a story with Jesus and his disciples in a boat, being tossed about on a stormy sea. As we pick up the scene, Christ has just calmed the waves with a single command. Now he turns to his disciples and asks, "How is it that ye have no faith?" (Mark 4:40).

You may think this sounds harsh. It was only human to fear in such a storm. But Jesus wasn't chiding them for that reason. Rather, he was telling them, "After all this time with me, you still don't know who I am. How could you possibly walk with me for this long, and not know me intimately?"

Indeed, the disciples were astonished by the amazing miracle Jesus had just performed. Scripture says, "They feared exceedingly, and said to one another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?" (4:41).
Can you imagine it? Jesus' own disciples didn't know him. He had personally called each one of these men to follow him. And they had ministered alongside him, to multitudes of people. They'd performed miracles of healing, and fed masses of hungry people. But they were still strangers to who their Master really was.

Tragically, the same is true today. Multitudes of Christians have ridden in the boat with Jesus, ministered alongside him, reached multitudes in his name. But they really don't know their Master. They haven't spent intimate time shut in with him. They've never sat quietly in his presence, opening their hearts to him, waiting and listening to comprehend what he wants to say to them.

We see another scene regarding the disciples' faith in Luke 17. The disciples came to Jesus, asking, "Increase our faith" (Luke 17:5).
Many Christians today ask the same question: "How can I obtain faith?" But they don't seek the Lord himself for their answer. Instead, they rush off to seminars that claim to teach believers how to increase their faith. Or, they buy stacks of books that offer ten quick steps to an increased faith. Or, they travel hundreds of miles to listen to lectures on faith by prominent evangelists and teachers.

I can tell you without doubt, you'll never truly increase your faith in any of these ways. If you want increased faith, you have to do the same thing Jesus told his disciples to do in this passage. How did he answer their request for faith? "Gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken" (17:8).

Jesus was saying, in essence, "Put on your garment of patience. Then come to my table and sup with me. I want you to feed me there. You happily labor for me all day long. Now I want you to commune with me. Sit down with me, open your heart, and learn of me. There are so many things I wish to speak into your life."

Don't settle for any more theological explanations of faith. Don't look for any more steps to try to obtain it. Just get alone with Jesus, and let him speak his heart to you. True faith is born in the secret closet of intimate prayer. So, go to Jesus and learn of him. If you spend quality time in his presence, faith will surely come. He'll birth faith in your soul as you've never known it. Believe me, when you hear his still, small voice speaking, faith will explode inside you.
________________________________________
That heavenly country - the city with foundations, sought by generations before us - is the place
we now live.

________________________________________
That place, that city, is in Christ by faith. The rest our fathers yearned for is found in him. We have received today the promise they could only foresee and embrace by faith.
Jesus said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad" (John 8:56). Abraham foresaw a day when Christ would come to earth and build the foundation he envisioned. And the patriarch rejoiced in knowing a blessed people would live in that day. He knew they would enjoy uninterrupted access to heavenly conversation and communion with God.
Today, however, many Christians are missing this promise completely. Instead, they live in needless turmoil. They scurry here and there, trying to work up a faith that "gets results." They're constantly caught in a rush of activities, doing things for God that in the end are merely burdensome. They're never fully at rest in Christ. Why? They don't simply shut themselves in with the Lord, to spend quiet time alone with him.

If you're in love with someone, you want to be in that person's presence. You both want to share yourselves with one another, opening your hearts and becoming intimate. The same is true of our relationship with Jesus. If we love him, we ought to constantly be thinking, "I want to be with my Lord. I want to enjoy his presence. So I'm going to draw near to him, and wait in his presence until I know he's satisfied. I'll stay until I hear him say, "Go now, and rejoice in my love."

In recent days, I've heard the Lord's still, small voice whisper something to me after my times of prayer with him. He says, "David, please don't go yet. Stay with me. There are so few who commune with me, so few who love me, so few who stay to hear my heart. And I have so much to share." It's almost a cry, a plea that I hear in his voice.

Then the Lord tells me, "Let me show you where I find your faith, David. It's in your coming to me. It's in your waiting on me, and ministering to me, until you hear and know what's on my heart."

"Your faith is in your growing desire to come into my presence. It's in your looking forward to our next time together. It's in that sense you've developed, that being alone with me is the joy of your life."

"It's no longer work for you to draw near to me, no longer a difficult labor. Now you look forward to it all day long. You know that when your labors are finished, you're going to come to me, to feed me and commune with me."
This is true faith.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
When we speak according to His Will, we have what we ask!

So what's the problem? That's what the word-faith movement preaches.You're contradicting yourself.  -

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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"


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becauseHElives
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When we speak according to His Will, we have what we ask!

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Aaron
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quote:
We are told by God Himself that He spoke the creation into existence (Genesis 1). He has not given that power to anyone else!
But how then do we deal with this scripture?

2Corinthians 4:13 "And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, 'I believed and therefore I spoke,' we also believe and therefore speak..."


I think too often the church "believes" according to the desires of her soul and not according to the Spirit of God. She replaces the word of God with her own words but calls them "God's word". She does this because she is dull of hearing...a condition that arose when she rejected the gifts of the prophet and apostle.

"I will do my own thing" she says, "but I will say it is God's doing". A lot of work gets done but none of it is for the Kingdom. In fact, the wayward church grows in her ability and boldness to accomplish things apart from God to the end that God is no longer needed. Oh, what a dangerous destination!

"Not my will, but Yours be done..." Because we are not the source of life (we are the conduit through which God's life is revealed) we cannot operate as a "creator" in the Kingdom of God. God is life. Any life that we impart to others is His: He wills it, we obey, and life is imparted to the other. Such is the destiny of the surrendered believer.

Aaron

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WildB
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Positive Confession is the belief that if a believer speaks "spiritual" or "faith-filled" words then he can have what he says. Unfortunately, this influence has invaded the church and continues to cause much turmoil and confusion.

Many of the teachers of the word-faith movement believe that words are so powerful that they can influence the physical and spiritual worlds. For example:

In The Tongue, a Creative Force (1976), positive confessionist Charles Capps, teaches that there are powerful "spiritual" words. Such words, which are ordinary words, can under certain circumstances, become vehicles for creative or supernatural power.

When "faith-filled" spiritual words are spoken (as words of power), they can alter the physical and spiritual world. Capps says, "You see there is more to it than just saying it. The words must originate from the inner man where spiritual power is released through words."

He goes on to state that "spirit words can control both the spirit world and the physical world. Because the words themselves have power, they will work for either God or man in the same manner." He goes on:

"The spirit of man is not of this world, it is of the spirit world. The creative ability of man comes through his spirit. He speaks spirit words that work in the world of the spirit. They will also dominate the physical world. He breathes spirit life into God's Word and it becomes a living substance, working for him as it worked for God in the beginning. These spirit words dominate the natural world" (p. 117-118).

What Capps is alluding to in the above statement is his teaching that since God, "by His faith" (using words) spoke this physical world into existence; the believer, using faith, can do the same. That is, the believer can speak things into existence. However, God's word is already "quick and powerful" (Hebrews 4:12), and it is referred to as the "Word of Life" (Phillipians 2:16). It is not necessary to activate it by speaking words of faith as though it were asleep or dead! Rather, it is by hearing the "living" word that one is brought to salvation through faith in Christ. (Romans 10:17)

A number of the prosperity teachers believe that the spiritual world controls and continually forms the physical world. So, if one can learn to control the spiritual world, then he can learn to control the physical world as well. This teaching then becomes the foundation for securing individual prosperity.

That is why in Releasing the Ability of God, Capps states, "You can have what you say! (because) the powerful force of the spiritual world that creates the circumstances around us is controlled by the words of the mouth. This force comes from inside us; the confession of our mouth will cause you to possess it" (pp. 98-99, parenthesis mine). This is why he teaches, "Discipline your vocabulary," and "today your word is god over your circumstances" (pp. 101-104).

Capps also teaches that the power within a Christian, within one's spirit, functions according to unchangeable laws. He says "These principles of faith are based on spiritual laws. They work for whosoever will apply these laws" (The Tongue, p. 103).

D. R. McConnell, in his book, A Different Gospel, directly traces the origin the spiritual laws taught in positive confession to the metaphysics of E.W. Kenyon, a man of 50-60 years ago whose theology was that of Pentecostal Christian Science (A Different Gospel, pp. 3-56).

McConnell records Kenneth Copeland in The Laws of Prosperity (p. 98, 101) as saying, "You can have what you say! In fact, what you are saying is exactly what you are getting now. If you are living in poverty and lack and want, change what you are saying. It will change what you have. Discipline your vocabulary. God will be obligated to meet your needs because of His word. If you stand firmly on this, your needs will be met" (Ibid., p. 173).

McConnell further states, that E.W. Kenyon's New Thought classmate, Ralph Waldo Trine, attributes the confession of prosperity to "Occult power." He says that "Trine believed that thought is a force, and it has Occult power of unknown proportions when rightly used and wisely directed" (Ibid., p. 174).

The usage of Occult powers is, of course, a practice that the Word-Faith teachers would publicly reject. Of course, this is not to say that those offering these teachings are Occultists. They are teachers who may never have thought through the implications of the practices they advocate. They may be unaware of the similarities between certain aspects of positive confession and Occulict practices. Nevertheless, the similarities do exist, and these practices are neither Biblical nor Christian.

John Ankerberg's issue of News and Views, June 1988, p. 1, reports that these words are used in religious rituals to influence both the spirit world and the material world. The report quotes Occult magician David Conway discussing the power of magical words to affect these worlds:

"Unseparable from magical speculation about words is the theory of vibrations, which supposes that certain sounds have a powerful acoustic impact on both the spiritual and astral worlds. Like the spiritual world and astral plane can in some circumstances be affected by sound, so that verbal magic may be said to derive its power not only from the idea contained in certain words, but from the peculiar vibrations these words create when spoken" (Magic: an Occult Primer, pp. 74-75).

Occultists, of course, have long claimed the true inner nature of man is powerful, capable of exercising divine ability. This is why New Ager Benjamin Creme says, for example, "One doesn't pray to oneself, one prays to the God within. The thing is to learn to invoke that energy which is the energy of God. Prayer and worship as we know it today will gradually die out and men will be trained to invoke the (inner) power of deity" (The Reappearance of Christ and the Masters of Wisdom, pp. 135-136, parenthesis mine).

The reason that positive confessionists can place so much emphasis on the inner man and his divine power is that they think the believer is a god. Kenneth Copeland says, "You don't have a god in you, you are one" (Copeland's sermon tape The Force of Love). And Kenneth Hagin says, "The believer is as much an incarnation of God as Jesus Christ" (Hagin, Word of Faith, p. 14).

To the positive confessionist, scripture passages such as Proverbs 18:21, "Death and Life are in the power of the tongue;" and James 3:8-10 are taken as proof of this doctrine, because they believe as "little gods" they have the same power as God through their own words.

Is it any wonder that Charles Capps says "The confession of your mouth even after you have prayed correctly will determine whether or not you receive. You can release the ability of God through the words of your mouth" (Releasing the Ability of God, 1978, pp. 93, 96).

For Christians words and faith are important, but there is a limit to what words can do.

It can help or hurt a close friend or a total stranger by what one says, but to treat words as if they were some "star wars" type weapon by which one alters or manipulates reality is not biblical, but Occultic. If one could change reality by the power of words spoken, then that would put man on the same level with God. This is exactly what teachers of the "positive confession," or word-faith movement, claim.

We are told by God Himself that He spoke the creation into existence (Genesis 1). He has not given that power to anyone else!

http://www.watchman.org/reltop/posconf.htm

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That is all.....

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