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Author
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Topic: I went to see the Pastor of an affirming Church
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WKUHilltopper
Advanced Member
Member # 5472
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posted
Spong is a heretic and his "message" is a first class ticket to the pit of Hell.
If these guys told you to read his book, I would have immediately suggested they read 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Then I would ask, "which is the truth? The Scriptures or what Spong thinks?"
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be deceived: no sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals,
10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, or swindlers will inherit God's kingdom.
King James Version (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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Keeping Him Close
Community Member
Member # 3843
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by ahar:
What's 'the affirming churches'? Is it the name for a group of churches?
Affirming Churches are churches that welcome gays and lesbians and transgender people and accepts thier lifestyle. In a nutshell. In most cases as with the chruch I went to see, it also performs gay and lesbian marriages.
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...then sings my soul, my saviour God to thee, How Great Thou Art..
April (36)
Husband David (52)
Stepson Stephen (23)
Daughter Alicia (16)
Posts: 10 | From: Hamilton, ON | Registered: Sep 2004
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ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
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posted
What's 'the affirming churches'? Is it the name for a group of churches?
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
God bless you;
Here is a sermon by John Shelby Spong:
Jesus Did Not Die For My Sins, Spong
Let me state this boldly and succinctly: Jesus did not die for your sins or for my sins.
That proclamation is theological nonsense. It only breeds more violence, as we seek to justify the negativity that religious people dump on others because we can no longer carry its load. We must rid ourselves of it. One can hardly refrain from exhorting parents not to spare the rod lest they spoil the child, if the portrait of God at the heart of the Christian story is that of an angry parent who punishes the divine Son because he can take it and we cannot.
The interpretation of Jesus as the sacrificed victim is a human creation. It was shaped in a first-century world by the disciples of Jesus, who drew on their Jewish liturgical symbols as a way the Crucifixion might be understood. They borrowed this understanding directly from the Jewish Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur, in which an innocent lamb was slaughtered to pay the price for the sins of the people. The sinful people then had the cleansing blood of that sacrificial lamb sprinkled on them.
We are not fallen, sinful people who deserve to be punished. We are frightened, insecure people who have achieved the enormous breakthrough into self-consciousness that marks no other creature that has yet emerged from the evolutionary cycle. We must not denigrate the human being who ate of the tree of knowledge in the Genesis story. We must learn rather to celebrate the creative leap into a higher humanity. Our sense of separation and aloneness is not a mark of our sin. It is a symbol of our glory. Our struggle to survive ... (our) radical self-centeredness, is not the result of original sin. It is a sign of emerging consciousness. It should not be a source of guilt. It is a source of blessing. We do not need to be punished. We need to be called and empowered to be more deeply and fully human and to develop the godlike gift of being able to give ourselves away freely in the quest for an even deeper sense of what it means to live. Jesus did not die for our sins. Jesus demonstrated in an ultimate way that it is by giving that we receive and by loving that we enhance life.
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1 John 2:
1: My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5: But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6: He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Main Entry: pro·pi·ti·a·tion
Pronunciation: prO-"pi-shE-'A-sh&n
Function: noun
1 : the act of propitiating
2 : something that propitiates; specifically : an atoning sacrifice
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Keeping Him Close
Community Member
Member # 3843
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
1) Bishop Spong,(retired Anglican Bishop), is apostate and openly rejects the basic tenents of the Christian faith. He has zero credibility in regards to faith and practice.
2) The "affirming churches" legitimize the sin of homosexuality. The Word of God is declared arbitrary, and moral absolutes compromised. To ordain practicing homosexuals is the blind leading the blind. To sanction homosexual unions is rebellion against God.
This was clearly evident from my research. I choose not to put another dime into Bishop Sprong's pocket and purchase his book. My mind is clearer now. My parting coment to the Pastor on the way out was that at some point we are all going to answer to God for our actions. He seemed rather uncomfortable with that comment although no disrespect was intended.
Thank you for your response.
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...then sings my soul, my saviour God to thee, How Great Thou Art..
April (36)
Husband David (52)
Stepson Stephen (23)
Daughter Alicia (16)
Posts: 10 | From: Hamilton, ON | Registered: Sep 2004
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Keeping Him Close
Community Member
Member # 3843
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aaron:
That being said, God has given some in the church the gift of evangelism. This means God intends to rescue the "lost sheep" from the world. Which is a good thing because, as you've noted, you, yourself needed such rescuing at one time.
But there is rescuing and then there is change. Change must occur for the lost to be made part of the Body, otherwise they are incompatible with the Head.
[/QB]
Thank you for your wisdom and insight. You have made my revalation about this matter that much clearer.
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...then sings my soul, my saviour God to thee, How Great Thou Art..
April (36)
Husband David (52)
Stepson Stephen (23)
Daughter Alicia (16)
Posts: 10 | From: Hamilton, ON | Registered: Sep 2004
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
1) Bishop Spong,(retired Anglican Bishop), is apostate and openly rejects the basic tenents of the Christian faith. He has zero credibility in regards to faith and practice.
2) The "affirming churches" legitimize the sin of homosexuality. The Word of God is declared arbitrary, and moral absolutes compromised. To ordain practicing homosexuals is the blind leading the blind. To sanction homosexual unions is rebellion against God.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Aaron
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Keeping Him Close:
I must admit I was a little nervous. Welcoming sinners into the church is very much something I agree with. Otherwise people like me would never get in.
I have much on my mind but I will strive to be as brief and as precise as possible....
Using the Biblical definition of "church" and "sinner" I would have to conclude that sinners are not welcome in the church nor can they part of it. To be precise: there is no place in the church for the sinner to occupy.
The "church" is both "the body of Christ" and "a collection of saints". Nothing about a building or structure. She is, in fact, a living organism whose head is Christ.
A "sinner" is not simply "one who sins" but rather "one who is ruled by sin". It is a definition NOT of behavioral tendencies (to sin) but of character (sin). It is the difference between "doing something" and "being something".
I am a "new creation" and therefore I have a place in the Body of Christ, the church. I may commit a sin but I will never again be "a sinner" because my very being has been changed. I am no longer ruled by sin but by God and now, through grace, He is alive in my innermost being, not sin. A sinner, however, is not a new creation, does not have God (or rather God does not have him) and is therefor unfit for the Body of Christ. There is no place for a sinner in the church, which is His Body.
That being said, God has given some in the church the gift of evangelism. This means God intends to rescue the "lost sheep" from the world. Which is a good thing because, as you've noted, you, yourself needed such rescuing at one time.
But there is rescuing and then there is change. Change must occur for the lost to be made part of the Body, otherwise they are incompatible with the Head.
Saying to a sinner "you are part of the church" runs contrary to the ministry of the Spirit and will ultimately drag both the minister of the false doctrine and the sinner into greater peril.
Bless you,
Aaron
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Keeping Him Close
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posted
I went with the intention to understand the role of the affirming church and how it relates to the Biblical scripture. I must admit I was a little nervous. Welcoming sinners into the church is very much something I agree with. Otherwise people like me would never get in. We are all people in the eyes of the Lord and God Loves us all. I would welcome fellowship with everyone regardless of being gay or not. When I attempted to talk about the clear Biblical scriptures outlining the noted sin of homosexuality. It was rather abruptly noted that I should read "The sins of the scripture" by Bishop Spong. I did some research and to be honest I am a little reserved about that. Regardless I cannot find it in my heart to hate the person that dwells in the body. It is my choice to hate the sin. I hate all sin even the ones I commit. I am human however and I strive for better.
The marriage issue is another matter. While I support thoes who choose to walk in the ways of the Lord and strive to be the best they can be and change thier sinning ways. I wonder about thoes who choose to say. "This is our life and you have no choice but to accept it and we want recognition for it."
Maybe I am wrong but that is where I am in my journey.
Please share your feelings but please be respectable of others.
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...then sings my soul, my saviour God to thee, How Great Thou Art..
April (36)
Husband David (52)
Stepson Stephen (23)
Daughter Alicia (16)
Posts: 10 | From: Hamilton, ON | Registered: Sep 2004
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