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Topic: who are these gods
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Kindgo
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posted
[QUOTE] I really wonder what the motivation is of those false teachers who yell out at their followers... "Say it with me, I am a little messiah.... I am a godman." Wow, what statements like that must do to the ego, ya know?
[QUOTE]
Hard to be a humble servant and be a god man too.
Anything for the dollar bill... ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
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SoftTouch
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
But "gods" can refer to ourselves as being a god and putting ourselves before the Almighty.
Absolutely... this is the whole "New Age" premise. They say it's mankinds destiny to 'evolve' into the higher state of godhood (paraphrase). This is also the first deception Satan used on Adam and Eve.
I really wonder what the motivation is of those false teachers who yell out at their followers... "Say it with me, I am a little messiah.... I am a godman." Wow, what statements like that must do to the ego, ya know?
And T7, Thank you for explaining that for me above ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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WhiteEagle
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posted
Reading through this section again, I realized something else. From the Ten Commandments, the Commandment, "Thou shall have no other "gods" before me."....
Many times when I was younger I would read this and think "Well, in today's world, we don't worship gods like Zeus, or Apollo, or others from the ancient world, we live in a modern world".
But "gods" can refer to ourselves as being a god and putting ourselves before the Almighty.
As well as anything else that is placed higer than God.
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KnowHim
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posted
Title: Word Pictures in the New Testament, Vol. 5: John & Hebrews
Author: Robertson, Archibald Thomas
Ye are gods (theoi este). Another direct quotation after eipa but
without hoti. The judges of Israel abused their office and God is represented in
Psalm 82:6 as calling them “gods” (theo, elohim) because they were God’s
representatives. See the same use of elohim in Exod 21:6; 22:9, 28. Jesus meets
the rabbis on their own ground in a thoroughly Jewish way.
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KnowHim
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posted
John 10:34-37
34-36 Is it not written in your law—in Psalm 82:6 (the term “law” could
encompass the entire OT), respecting judges or magistrates. Ye are gods—being
the official representatives and commissioned agents of God. If he called them
gods, unto whom the word of God came . . . Say ye of him whom the Father
hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest—The whole force
of this reasoning lies in what is said of the two parties compared. The comparison
of himself with mere men, divinely commissioned, is intended to show that the
idea of a communication of the divine Majesty to human nature was by no means
foreign to the revelations of the OT. But there is also a contrast between himself
and all merely human representatives of God—the One “sanctified by the Father
and sent into the world”; the other, “to whom the word of God [merely] came.” It
is never said of Christ that “the word of the Lord came to him”; whereas this is
the well-known formula by which the divine commission, even to the highest of
mere men, is expressed, as with John the Baptist (Luke 3:2). The reason is that
given by John the Baptist himself (see 3:31). The contrast is between those “to
whom the word of God came”—men of the earth, earthy, who were merely
privileged to get a divine message to utter (if prophets) or a divine office to
discharge (if judges)—and “him whom (not being of the earth at all) the Father
hath sanctified (or, set apart), and sent into the world,” an expression never used
of any merely human messenger of God, and used only of himself. because, I
said, I am the Son of God—It is worthy of special notice that our Lord had not
said, in so many words, that he was the Son of God, on this occasion. But he had
said what beyond doubt amounted to it—namely, that he gave his sheep eternal
life, and none could pluck them out of his hand; that he had got them from his
Father, in whose hands, though given to him, they still remained, and out of
whose hand none could pluck them; and that they were the property of both,
inasmuch as “he and his Father were one.” Our Lord considers all this as just
saying of himself, “I am the Son of God: one nature with him, yet mysteriously
of him.” The parenthesis (10:35), “and the Scripture cannot be broken,” referring
to the terms used of the judges in Psalm 82, has an important bearing on the
authority of the living oracles. “The Scripture, as the expressed will of the
unchangeable God, is itself unchangeable and indissoluble” (Olshausen).
Title: New Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Testament Volume
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Thunderz7
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posted
SoftTouch asks quote:
Thunder... may I ask why you started this thread, and why in the Exposing section?
This subject came up at work last week in a discussion with a co-worker,
then again Sunday, Ps.82 was bought up in Bible study.
I gave examples of some teachings that go to extremes with these verses; then we looked at these verses in realtion to
Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
&
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Knowing that these verses have often been taken out of context by some,
and knowing that others jump to lable someone just for quoting these verses,
I thought it just as well in the exposing section, since it would probably turn into that anyway.
(In looking back before adding reply,
that last paragraph seemed a bit harsh, its not meant to be.)
I have enjoyed the response.
be blessed in Jesus
T7
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SoftTouch
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posted
Thank you for posting that Kindgo. That definitely helps my understanding out!
Thunder... may I ask why you started this thread, and why in the Exposing section?
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Kindgo
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posted
Exodus 7 - Miracles and Plagues Before Pharaoh
A. God lays out the plan to Moses again
1. (1-2) The re-affirmation of Aaron's place in the ministry of Moses
a. God is patient with Moses; after the outburst at the end of chapter six, we might expect that God had enough with Moses. But God doesn't even chastise Moses; He simply tells him what to do and sets him to do it. God is rich in mercy!
b. I have made you as God to Pharaoh: Pharaoh had rejected having any direct dealing with Yahweh (Who is the Lord, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? [Exodus 5:2]), so God would deal with Pharaoh through Moses. This would let Moses know that when Pharaoh was rejecting him, he was really rejecting God - and he wouldn't take it so personally!
i. In the same way, God will make us "as God" to people we encounter who are rejecting God; if they harden their hearts or reject us, we shouldn't take it personally!
c. Aaron your brother shall be your prophet: if Moses is as God to Pharaoh, then Aaron would be "God's" (that is, Moses') "prophet" - his spokesman before Pharaoh
i. Also, even as Moses was not to act on his own initiative, but to wait for God's direction, Aaron was not to act on his own initiative, but to wait for Moses' direction
d. God will not allow Moses to let the seeming failure of his first encounter with Pharaoh to discourage him; Moses is simply commanded, you shall speak all that I command you;
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1146617601-2265.html#94
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thunderz7:
And GOD told Moses
Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Just imagine GOD calling men gods, and making a man, a god, to a worldly king.
T7
It's something to make one take a second look! Did God say that? Yes He did, it is in the scriptures.
I don't think of myself as a god whatsoever, yet we have these scriptures.
The Lord God uses lots of descriptions about us.
So what is the definition of these "gods" in scripture? Or what is the definition of "gods" in context of these scriptures?
I think we must be careful and not just ignore them. It's important to take all of what God tells us about human beings.
He did authorize Adam and Eve to have dominion over the earth and subdue it.
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SoftTouch
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
quote:
Adam is called a son of God. So the Adamic race; "us" are the "gods". We are as a race the Children of God. He created us.
I dont think that I agree with this. I see that Adam was a son of God; but Adam the Son of God died in the day that he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,just as God said that he would, and we who were born to the sons of AAdam, Adam whom God covered in skins and sent out of the Garden, were not born of God, but are the procreation of Adam... we are the sons of men... but through Christ we are given the power to become the sons of God.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
I agree with you on this Sis. I had a little problem with that part myself, but I posted that at such an early hour in the morning that I didn't do a real good job of reading the Whole Thing. (Not real smart, I know) However, I agree with the authors statements about the enitre issue of men being called "gods" being twisted and taken out of context by the WOF groups.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
Adam is called a son of God. So the Adamic race; "us" are the "gods". We are as a race the Children of God. He created us.
I dont think that I agree with this. I see that Adam was a son of God; but Adam the Son of God died in the day that he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,just as God said that he would, and we who were born to the sons of AAdam, Adam whom God covered in skins and sent out of the Garden, were not born of God, but are the procreation of Adam... we are the sons of men... but through Christ we are given the power to become the sons of God.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
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SoftTouch
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posted
(With Thanks to "IttyBittyGirl" (aka Rose on the EWOP) for pointing this article out to me!) Ye Are Gods has been Twisted and taught wrongly by the Word of Faith leaders for years now.
The below is just a snippet of the article, there is more at the link:
http://www.myfortress.org/AreChristiansLittleGods.html
Let us look at Psalm 82 in context to see what it is saying. Do you agree that we translate the bible in a literal sense, but if the context is speaking figuratively we will do harm to translating it literally.
For example, Jesus said to pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands if they cause you to sin. Does Jesus actually want us to chop off our hands? A resounding no! Jesus is simply telling us how serious sin is and that we should make every effort to avoid it.
When Psalm 91 says that we shall find protection under God's wings is it saying that God is a bird? When David calls God his rock, is God a literal rock? Of course not! They are simply describing the attributes of God so that we can understand. This is called an anthropomorphism.
Let us quote Psalm 82 in full:
"God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations."
What is going on in this verse? The judges of Israel are called god's (Elohim) because they were in a position of God. They ruled matters of life and death, they were appointed by God to rule and judge as Romans 13:1-2 clearly states.
Compare Romans 13:1-2 with Exodus 4:16, 7:1-2. God calls Moses god in Exodus 7:1. Why is that? Well, God explains that it means you are a spokesman for him. Exactly like the wicked judges in Psalms 82. See for yourself what God said about Moses and him being a god, i.e., spokesman for Him:
"And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land, "Exodus 7:1-2.
With this in mind do you see what is happening in Psalm 82? God is actually mocking these judges and telling them, "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes." God is telling them that your position of a judge has corrupted your thinking and your actions. Despite your high and lofty view of yourself you shall die like a man! How can a god die like a man? Do you see the contradiction in believing that this verse proves that men are gods? In context this verse actually mocks people for thinking this.
See what God has to say about there being any other gods beside Himself:
"Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? Ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any," Isaiah 44:8.
"Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me," Isaiah 43:10.
"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me...Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God...Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? Have not I the LORD? And there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else," Isaiah 45:5, 14, 21-22.
"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors. Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me," Isaiah 46:5, 8-9.
In the book of Acts chapter 14 after Paul healed a man the people said, "The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men." Here is a perfect opportunity for the apostle Paul to teach the doctrine that Christians are gods. Let's see what Paul says, "Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein."
The apostles were outraged at being called "gods" yet this is what Word Faith teachers preach from pulpits. This was the perfect opportunity for them to teach us that we are gods--instead of doing that they tore their clothes and told them that they were also men just like them.
MISINTERPRETATION:
Jesus answered a group of Jews and said, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, you are gods.’” Does this mean that humans can become God? New Agers tell us that “we can be the God that Jesus proclaimed us to be: ‘Ye are Gods’” (Spangler, 1978, 47). Mormons also cite this verse to support their view on the plurality of gods (Bruce McConkie, 1977, 24).
CORRECTING THE MISINTERPRETATION:
This text should not be used to support the view that we are (or can become) little gods, for such an interpretation is contrary to the overall context. Jesus is not speaking to pantheists (who believe that God is everything and everything is God) or polytheists (who believe in many gods). Rather, he is addressing strict Jewish monotheists who believe that only the Creator of the universe is God. So, his statement should not be wrenched out of this monotheistic context and given a pantheistic or polytheistic twist.
Jesus’ statement must be understood as part of his overall reasoning here which is an a fortiori argument: “If God even called human judges ‘gods,’ then how much more can I call myself the Son of God.” Christ had just pronounced himself one with the Father, saying, “I and My Father are one” (10:30). The Jews wanted to stone him because they thought Christ was blaspheming, making himself out to be equal with God (vv. 31–33). Jesus responded by quoting Psalm 82:6 which says, “I said, you are gods.” So, Jesus reasoned, if human judges could be called “gods,” then why can’t the Son of God be called “God”?
Note that not everyone is called “gods” but only a special class of persons, namely, judges about whom Jesus said, they are those to “whom the word of God came” (v. 35). Jesus was showing that if the Old Testament Scriptures could give some divine status to divinely appointed judges, why should they find it incredible that he should call himself the Son of God?
These judges were “gods” in the sense that they stood in God’s place, judging even life and death matters. They were not called “gods” because they were divine beings. Indeed, the text Jesus cites (Psalm 82) goes on to say that they were “mere men” and would “die” (v. 7). It also affirms that they were “the sons of the Most High,” but not because they were of the essence of God himself.
It is possible, as many scholars believe, that when the psalmist Asaph said to the unjust judges, “You are gods,” he was speaking in irony. He was saying, “I have called you ‘gods,’ but in fact you will die like the men that you really are.” If this is so, then when Jesus alluded to this psalm in John 10, he was saying that what the Israelite judges were called in irony and in judgment, he is in reality. Jesus was giving a defense for his own deity, not for the deification of man.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Thunderz7
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posted
And GOD told Moses
Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Just imagine GOD calling men gods, and making a man, a god, to a worldly king.
T7
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WhiteEagle
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posted
To add: The terms "gods" doesn't in any designate the human race anywhere in equality with God Almighty. It's not meant to, and certainly I don't either.
We are lesser obviously "lesser gods", but God calls us "gods" as we are His Children. But we will still die like men (human beings)
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WhiteEagle
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I must say that Jesus truth about Origins is much better than Darwins' ape man idea. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by Thunderz7:
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Pslams 82:1 ¶ <<A Psalm of Asaph.>> God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 ¶ I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
T7
In Luke 3:38 which is part of the geneology of Jesus Christ: "the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."
Adam is called a son of God. So the Adamic race; "us" are the "gods". We are as a race the Children of God. He created us.
Jesus states the Law cannot be broken in scripture and you have the Psalm 82.
"gods" are mankind. Kind of strange concept, is it not?
We are created in God's image. Jesus was reminding the Pharisees of their origins.
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Thunderz7
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John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Pslams 82:1 ¶ <<A Psalm of Asaph.>> God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 ¶ I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
T7
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