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Author
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Topic: Spirit, Soul and Body
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Can I get a yea or a nay on this, I can not go any proceed until I know.
originally posted April 25th,
quote:
White Eagle
The spirit has a will also, I don't see how the spirit part of us would not have a will.
The spirit of man is dead to Yahweh when we are born into this world, only at the “new birth’ is man spirit made alive.
Ephesians 2:1 says “And you hath he quickened who were dead in trespasses and sin. That word “quickened” means Spiritual Resurrection from death in trespasses and sin, to make ALIVE!
The bible tells us that the wages of sin is death. Sin brings forth death, and death is eternal separation from God, but the good news is that the Gift of God is eternal life.
Mankind’s "will" is very much alive when born as a child.
If you love a child you will conform or break the will of a child, so that later in life when that child has an opportunity to respond to the Gospel, the heart will be tender to the things of Yahweh, so that spirit may be quicken by Yahweh and made alive unto Yahweh.
Psa 34:18 The LORD [is] nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
The LORD [is] nigh unto them that are of a broken
1) to break, break in pieces
a) (Qal)
1) break, break in or down, rend violently, wreck, crush, quench
2) to break, rupture (fig)
b) (Niphal)
1) to be broken, be maimed, be crippled, be wrecked
2) to be broken, be crushed (fig)
c) (Piel) to shatter, break
d) (Hiphil) to cause to break out, bring to the birth
e) (Hophal) to be broken, be shattered
heart, will
1) inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding
a) inner part, midst
1) midst (of things)
2) heart (of man)
3) soul, heart (of man)
4) mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory
5) inclination, resolution, determination (of will)
6) conscience
7) heart (of moral character)
8) as seat of appetites
9) as seat of emotions and passions
10) as seat of courage
AV - heart 508, mind 12, midst 11, understanding 10, hearted 7,
wisdom 6, comfortably 4, well 4, considered 2, friendly 2,
kindly 2, stouthearted + 047 2, care + 07760 2, misc 21; ; 593
and saveth such as be of a crushed spirit, broken in spirit
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
Jesus said: " The spirit is willing, but the body is weak." When he was talking about his disciplines going to the Garden of Gesemane.
Jesus said; "Worship God in spirit and in truth."
I looked up the word "soul" and the word "spirit"
in Strong's concordance. There are so many verses it would be impossible to write them all down. But here's a beginning to what the Bible presents when referring to the soul.
The soul has deep feelings;
Job 14:22 it mourns
Gen 42:21 anguish of the soul
Lev chapter 4, it hears, touches, eats, tastes, as it loathes bread.
The soul can be knit to another soul
1 Sam 18:1 David and Jonathan
Gen 34:8 his soul clave to Dinah
God Breathe produced a "living soul" Gen 2:7
The soul can sin Lev 4:2
The soul lusts after things: Deut 12:5
The soul seems to be the "house" of our feelings and thoughts and our essence. It is our soul that needs the atonement. Lev 17:11
I think you are right Thunderz7 about the spirit part of us being the life or vitality part of the person.
In scripture the word spirit is used to desscribe living entities without a body such as a spirit of wisdom, or troubled spirit, spirit of jealousy, lying spirit, contrite spirit, broken spirit. So is the spirit we carry what we rue when we either obey and follow God or sin and take on a spirit of bitterness, or troubled spirit?
The spirit is a living vital fluid like thing, that is dfferent from the soul, in that we can have many spirits, such as joy, love, or wisdom, and even though we migh have those spirits at times, it can leave us also and we might have a spirit of heaviness or spirit of bitterness.
The soul and spirit are sometimes uses interchangably in scripture.
I see this is not an easy topic and not easy to separate the soul and spirit for their parts related to the body.
As you said the heart doesn't really seem to contain thoughts and feelings as it pumps blood, in the phyical, but since the Bible talks about the heart as the house of the thoughts and intents of people, it certainly could be the spiritual part of the heart.
Gosh this is confusing, forgive my writing my thoughts out loud.
The Bible makes the soul sound very close to how the Body feels as the soul has all the senses and feelings.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
I do have some thoughts Thunder and I am hoping to assemble them in some reasonable fashion, but it was late last night.
I will say to be sure no one misunderstands. I AM NOT teaching this. I am exploring this. I have been studying this for a long time. And my views have changed considerably as I have studied.
I think you are correct in your thoughts of Spirit-Soul as in that they are instrinsically interwoven... at least that is what I see you saying.
Only the word can divide them, which has many interesting implications. I would also like to come back to the image thing. I will try to organize some of my other thoughts on this and come back to you later today T7.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Thunderz7
Advanced Member
Member # 31
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posted
Linda, glad you got in this, you bring some good points.
Of course you know I agree with your deduction that the soul must be the seat of the mind and will.
I have also had a problem with those that teach spirit, soul and body by starting with the statement - "man is a spirit, has a soul and lives in a body".
Looking into "living soul", and with the scriptures you shared;
I looked into root words and related words in Strong's, both Hebrew and Greek,
(which is where some get inot a stretching of truth leading to error, so don't take it on my say)
and with the scripture thought that God is a Spirit;
God, who is Spirit, breathed into man, (breathed spirit) making man a living soul(spirit-soul).
I am not troubled in my spirit with this,
BUT -
Please pray and check this on your own, it is my position at present, but I would have to have some more scripture backing and conformation in my spirit, from The Spirit, before I would "teach" it.
I feel 1Cor. ch. 2 is as good a section of scripture as we have to prove that the spirit is the part of man that is GOD conscious.
1Cor.2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
It seems I remember we had some different thoughts on being created in GOD's image, and though I agreed with your position, it didn't change mine, just added to it.
If you have some different thoughts on that could you relate them.
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
I used to believe the commonly taught" man is a spirit that lives in a body and posseses a soul."
I am not so sure that is accurate. Let me show you what I see.
First lets look at God:
God is a Spirit:
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
God has a mind:
Romans 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
God has a will:
2 Corinthians 8:5 And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God.
God manifest himself in a body:
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Father Son and Holy Ghost are of ONE mind and will.
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What do we know about man?
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![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif) We know that man is a living soul-
(5590 quch psuche psoo-khay’ in the NT) (05315 vpn nephesh neh’- fesh - in the OT )
1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
We know that the Soul of man lives on after the body dies:
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
We know that all souls belong to God:it it is the soul that sins
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
We know that the souls of the unjust are sent to hell and the souls of the just are redeemed and found to be present with the Lord:
1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
We know that the living soul of man occupies a body.
Now what do we know about bodies?
We know that there are spiritual bodies and natural bodies:
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
In this life we walk in a natural body that will corrupt because of sin when we die.
We know that man and beast have spirits
What do we know about spirits?
We know that God gives man his spirit and the spirit of man returns to God at death:
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Zechariah 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
We know that the Spirit of Man reveals to God the things of man:
Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.
1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?
NOTE: At this point it seems to me that the body of man is mortal; the soul of man surviving death of the body is either destroyed in hell and eternally separated from God in the Lake of Fire or having put on imortality goes on the eternal life with God. The spirit of man is eternal and is returned to GOD.
It seems to me that the spirit is the life force that makes body and Spirit to be a living soul.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead,
Here we see it is the spirit that returned that made the girl to live again:
Luke 8:55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.
So it seems to me that man is born in the natural like this: This is man born in the flesh and of the flesh.
Body + Spirit of Man = Living soul
It seems to me that man is a soul, made alive by the union of spirit and body. Once living, it continues on past the life of the body.
This man has a mind and a will: The will and mind of the flesh and these are enmity with God: It is important to understand that will is desire.
When the mind of the flesh mind the things of the flesh, the will of the flesh which desires those things directs the body to satisfy the the will. This is sin or works of the flesh.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
1 Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
When the carnal/natural man of the flesh dies that happens?
Body (separated from Spirit) Spirit of Man (returned to God)= Dead Body, but the living soul of the body that died, ...the soul itself is conscience in hell.
According to Luke 16 - the soul of the rich man, had memory, knowledge, and desire.
Thus the soul must be the seat of mind and will.
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Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Thunderz7
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Member # 31
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posted
WE asks quote:
You have clearly outlines how you understand soul and spirit and catagorized "the will" under the soul.
Where is that stated in scripture? Or where is any of the definers listed in scripture under body, soul, and spirit?
For the first part I'll have to look into some notes.
For the last part "scripture under spirit, soul and body.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
WE asks quote:
If the soul is "will" is that confined to the brain? The brain is part of the physical body. is it not?
The way I see it, Heb.4:12 indicates that the WORD is the divider.
The spirit and soul are the heart of a man, where lie the thoughts and intents.
This is clearly spiritual and not physical.
The heart that pumps blood, and the brain, are part of the body.
Heb.4:12 is not about running a twoedged sword through the physical heart.
by WE quote:
The spirit has a will also, I don't see how the spirit part of us would not have a will.
I believe the spirit has a will,
a will toward GOD,
the spirit is GOD conscious,
without being born again (born of the spirit)
we are spiritualy dead.
The spirit seeks to serve GOD.
The soul being self conscious seeks to serve self, and must be brought under subjection of the spirit.
Jn.1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
v.13 explains that it is born again people being spoken of in these two verses.
v.12 says that these born again have the power "to become" sons of God.
If they bring the soul under subjection to the spirit.
Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
In this scripture we can see triune man and the tri-part tabernacle/temple
Holy of Holies = spirit = all GOD
Inner Court = soul = GOD and man
Outer Court = body = all man
When revelation comes to the spirit,
transformation can then take place in the soul,
and manifestation can happen with/to/from the body.
WE says quote:
If we are instructed to Worship God in spirit and in truth then we have made a decision of the will.
The spirit is what has a will. It is part of our consiousness and thoughts and it is the gatekeeper to the soul. It can protect or hurt the soul by it's decisions and will. It's prime directive is in fact to protect body and soul.
I believe worshiping GOD in spirit and truth is putting the self-will of the soul in subjection to the born again spirit,
taking every thought of the soulish mind captive, to be obedient to Christ.
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
I agree that the spirit has a will, but again say it is a GOD conscious will, to serve GOD.
Being a born again spirit, it's prime directive would be to protect the soul and body as long as the soul and body were in subjestion to the spirit.
I agree also that the spirit is the gatekeeper to the soul, to give the soul what is needed to become GOD-serving and not self-serving, and not to let the self-will come through the gateway.
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
Thunderz7
I think we need to avoid mixing up the elements.
You have clearly outlines how you understand soul and spirit and catagorized "the will" under the soul.
Where is that stated in scripture? Or where is any of the definers listed in scripture under body, soul, and spirit?
If the soul is "will" is that confined to the brain? The brain is part of the physical body. is it not?
The spirit has a will also, I don't see how the spirit part of us would not have a will.
If we are instructed to Worship God in spirit and in truth then we have made a decision of the will.
I believe the soul is that eternal part of us, that absorbs all that we go through in life, our inner man. It is our soul that gets redeemed.
It's like an absorbant material that takes in all that occurs to it. It takes in the good, the bad and it can be hurt and wounded by events.
The spirit is what has a will. It is part of our consiousness and thoughts and it is the gatekeeper to the soul. It can protect or hurt the soul by it's decisions and will. It's prime directive is in fact to protect body and soul.
Anyhow that's how I understand the three. Actually this is the first time I put it in words. I beleive it is accurate by scripture.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
quote:
Heb.4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
The will, being part of the soul, is hard to separate from the spirit;
but the discnction can be made by the sword of the WORD.
For man to serve GOD the will must be in subjection to the spirit, not opposed to it.
The self-will must be broken, that the spirit is in control under the leadership of the Holy Spirit.
![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
chastening of the Lord effects this in the heart of mankind
just as the chastening of parents effect the breaking of self-will in a child
the scripture have no other answer to the problem!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Thunderz7
Advanced Member
Member # 31
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posted
This subject has come up before;
is it truth or false doctrine?
I'm posting in response to a side issue in another thread in which it was said that breaking the will is the same as breaking the spirit.
I have heard many independent, non-denominational, charismatic and WOF people teach this.(and yes, I have heard it taken to extremes by Hinn, who I still say, is not WOF)
I have also heard it taught by Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Penticostal and other mainline denominational ministers.
When I rededicated my life to YHWH by the Blood of Yashua in 89, one of the first subjects to come to my attention was this of spirit, soul and body.
I had heard nothing of it in my earlier "church life".
Through reading, studying, praying and listening, I have come to believe that man is a triune being, made up of spirit, soul and body.
I have seen scripture used well to stand in opposition to this doctrine;
where do you stand on it?
I have said before that I believe in One GOD who is triune, Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
I see some truth in Trinity doctrine, and some truth in Oneness doctrine, but too much error and not enough truth in either to be called a supporter of it.
My belief on spirit, soul and body is that-
Triune God = Father, Son, Holy Spirit
created triune man = spirit, soul, body
in HIS image.
Gen.1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
The animal kingdom consist of two-part creatures of soul and body.
The spirit makes a man different from the animals,
only man can be born again, and have his spirit led by the Holy Spirit.
spirit = the life, light and love of a man.
soul = the mind, will and emotions.
body = flesh, blood and bones.
spirit = GOD conscious
soul = self conscious
body = world conscious
Heb.4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
The will, being part of the soul, is hard to separate from the spirit;
but the discinction can be made by the sword of the WORD.
For man to serve GOD the will must be in subjection to the spirit, not opposed to it.
The self-will must be broken, that the spirit is in control under the leadership of the Holy Spirit.
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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