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Topic: Easy way to know...
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
quote:
This is one of the main reasons I don't post on EFD;
everything that is wrong with WOF is blasted to extremes, but the wrong of the mainline denominations such as Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostals, Church of Christ, etc....,
is never brougt up.
There is every bit as much error, and man made doctrine, tradition, and use of jargon, in the Baptist in my area as with any WOF teaching I hear.
I can't see the constant name calling of one and not the other.
Evidently what I see as mainline error most see as sound doctrine.
Then why do you think that God has given you to see it? I disagree Thunder. I am often blessed by your posts in this area, even when we disagree. And we disagree on not too much I think.
I think that before all is said and done the demnomiations have to fall; the denominations had to happen that those who were approved would be manifest, and right now we see them many if not all in some degree of apostasy and yes we do need to see it!!!
Good grief! Rick warren is a member of the Souhern Baptist Convention is he not??? What about tithing who does not teach tithing? Is it scriptural? What about one of your favorites... water baptism a requirement for salvation? Is it scriptural? What about the gifts? have they ceased? what about the Holy spirit? Does he speak to us personally? What about the word? Is it inspired? Inerrant? What about the bread and the wine? Is it a sacrament? What about sanctification?
It is so easy to just accept denominational differences. To move beyond them forces us to lay aside man's opinions and SEE GOD's opinion.
There is not one denominational difference that is not found answer to in the scripture, but it take work and prayer and most of all surrender of our flesh and yeilding to the Holy Spirit of GOD to find the truth and once we find it it takes faith to be bold enough to stand on it.
Anyway, I agree that there is much error and even heresy in the main line denominations and I personally believe that whether we be willing or HE has to drag us there, we are gonna have to see it all and get to the bottom line which is CHRIST and the WORD before all is said and done.
He is not coming back for a Baptist Bride or a Methodist Bride or a Catholic Bride or a Pentecostal Bride, or any other label that you want to paint in front of Christ in Christian. He is coming back for a bride that is betrothed only to HIM!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thunderz7:
everything that is wrong with WOF is blasted to extremes, but the wrong of the mainline denominations such as Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostals, Church of Christ, etc....,
is never brougt up.
There is every bit as much error, and man made doctrine, tradition, and use of jargon, in the Baptist in my area as with any WOF teaching I hear.
I can't see the constant name calling of one and not the other.
Evidently what I see as mainline error most see as sound doctrine.
Be blessed in Jesus
T7
I am not the one who constantly is tearing down the WOF'ers. I am only trying to defend them. I will never bring up what may or may not be wrong with many evangelical and charismatic churches, because no church is perfect.
For me a church has to be Christ-centred and believe in the Trinity. They also have to stress "Ye must be born again." and that Christ came to live with us in the flesh, and died on the cross to redeem us from our sins.
So many scriptures get into semantics where they are open to different interpration and discernment. I have no problem with that; just don't like straying away from the basic doctrine I just mentioned. First priority in a church for me is Christ-centred.
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Thunderz7
Advanced Member
Member # 31
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posted
HisGrace,
as you know I don't post a lot on the Exposing False Doctrine portion of these boards,
but I do read many of the threads.
Often when you are far outnumbered on these topics I see your points at least, if not better than, what you often stand against.
That said I must disagree somewhat with your statement
quote:
A lot of these churches which have broken away from the traditional Bible-based Baptist and Pentecostal churches have kept many of the old traditions and know all of the proper jargon to use, but there is usually a very subtle and dangerous twist. The devil is very crafty.
Knowing we are in different areas, even different countries;
From what I have seen, many of the groups who have broken away from traditional Baptist and Pentecostal churches, are now much more Bible-based than the Baptist and Pentecostals who are so tied up in man made tradition.
This is one of the main reasons I don't post on EFD;
everything that is wrong with WOF is blasted to extremes, but the wrong of the mainline denominations such as Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostals, Church of Christ, etc....,
is never brougt up.
There is every bit as much error, and man made doctrine, tradition, and use of jargon, in the Baptist in my area as with any WOF teaching I hear.
I can't see the constant name calling of one and not the other.
Evidently what I see as mainline error most see as sound doctrine.
be blessed in Jesus
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Someone once said that they wanted to talk about the loving side of God. I did not know if I should laugh or cry. God is LOVE; he has not a loving side, HE is love, and because HE is Love, HE is also Severe, and He is always JUST; but because HE is GOD... He is also Soveriegn.
Wow,what a great memory HFHS. That was me probably over a year ago.
God certainly displayed his wrath many times in the OT. Take a look at Exodus 33.1-6 -
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Leave this place, you and the people you brought up out of Egypt, and go up to the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, saying, 'I will give it to your descendants.' I will send an angel before you and drive out the Canaanites, Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. Go up to the land flowing with milk and honey. But I will not go with you, because you are a stiff-necked people and I MIGHT DESTROY YOU ON THE WAY."
When the people heard these distressing words, they began to mourn and no one put on any ornaments. For the LORD had said to Moses, "Tell the Israelites, 'You are a stiff-necked people. If I were to go with you even for a moment, I MIGHT DESTROY YOU. Now take off your ornaments and I will decide what to do with you.' " So the Israelites stripped off their ornaments at Mount Horeb.
~God told Moses that He was not going to send his Presence with Him, because he was afraid what he might do to Moses and his 'stiff-necked people.' Later we see that God's mercy prevailed.
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
Hey David: I liked this post, but I am not sure that I believe it is a "New" thing. I think that it is just becoming more blatant, more obvious, as we approach the end of days.
It is human-ism vs God-ism; Either man is God or God is God and you cant have both.
I think that this was presnt in the Garden, and at the time of the flood; at Babel; in Babylon, and with us today.
It is just that sin, when it is allowed to becomes increasingly sinful until the whole is leavened.
What began as man's arguments over choice and will once seemed simple enough, but the truth is there is only one choice... man's way or God's way; only one will God's will or not God's will.
The whole idea of "asking God into my heart" speaks not of surrender, but of control and rebelliousness. Do we dare think God needs and invitation? We cling to our will and our choice and we re-write the nature of God to accomidate our rebelliousness... God doesnt ever.... God wont.. God wants....
When I look at the scipture whole, I see one thread that is present throughout... God desires ALL men to know that HE Alone IS the omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent GOD.
Some men by Grace learn this and humble themselves. Some men go to their death not knowing this, but when they stand before the Great White Throne, then they will know and they too will bow before they are carted off to the lake of fire.
When one knows that GOD iS GOD... there is no choice but to bow! If you do not bow it is because you do not know.
Even Satan is going to bow before the Almighty!
Someone once said that they wanted to talk about the loving side of God. I did not know if I should laugh or cry. God is LOVE; he has not a loving side, HE is love, and because HE is Love, HE is also Severe, and He is always JUST; but because HE is GOD... He is also Soveriegn.
Today we are sometimes it seems almost submerged in a society that seeks to understand man. What is his purpose, what makes him tick, what are his creative abilities, what is the mind of man capable of knowing, doing, understandting, solving, providing...etc etc etc..
This is antithesis of what God wills for man. God wills us to KNOW GOD.... that HE is... and that HE is a rewarder of those who seek; and that HE is IAM; HE is GOD; ALL knowing, All Present; ALL Powerful GOD... completely and totally Sovereign, but whose will and person is WHOLLY GOOD JUST and HOLY.
Anyway... just dont think it is a new thing... just a more openly blatant expostion of the same old thing.
God Bless you and your House David and may you never stop plowing on! ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by David:
If it is man centered, it is not from God.
If it is God centered, it is from God.
A lot of these churches which have broken away from the traditional Bible-based Baptist and Pentecostal churches have kept many of the old traditions and know all of the proper jargon to use, but there is usually a very subtle and dangerous twist. The devil is very crafty.
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
For those that can not tell if something is from God this is an easy way to know:
If it is man centered, it is not from God.
If it is God centered, it is from God.
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God vs. Man-Centered Spirituality
By Pastor Bill Randles
The Church is currently being divided. Like the broader culture in which we live, the Pentecostal and Charismatic, and to a large extent, the Evangelical world, is engaged in a profound philosophical struggle. None of the old dividing lines are adequate. It is no longer liberal or conservative, or “Spirit-filled” versus “cessationist.” The real schism goes deeper.
We are seeing two competing visions of the very definition of Christianity struggling for the hearts and minds of those in the Church. The faultline could be designated as being either “God-centered” or “man-centered” spirituality. It is clearly illustrated in our view of the basic elements of the Gospel itself, which are the contrasting views of God, Christ, man, and our response.
In the new man-centered view of God, love is the first and foremost attribute of God. It is primary. “God isn’t mad at you. He loves you with an unconditional love, and He longs to help you and to meet your needs” is the substance of much of the preaching today, particularly much of the evangelism these days. But, it is a love out of context.
Curiously, a quick review of the apostolic preaching in the book of Acts shows that there was no preaching of that nature or emphasis in the beginnings of the Church. God was held up as being Holy, and the Creator of all, as well as our Judge. His sovereignty was also frequently acknowledged. There was no talk of such things as unconditional love, or “longing to help” us. In contrast, the wrath of God was held forth as an inevitable reality.
Today, there are conflicting views of man and his dilemma. Man is indeed seen as lost, in the man-centered view, but lost in the sense of someone “seeking,”yet unable to find what he is looking for. The God-centered view charges man with being lost, yet also declares that he is not seeking, rather running from God: “There is none that seeketh after God.”
The new emphasis is on the “felt need” of people, whereas the old was on the need to face up to our sin and be forgiven. “Felt needs” such as loneliness, emptiness, alienation, and so forth, are appealed to in the new gospel, but usually without any reference to the Law or Character of God.
In a real way, the man-centered view of man puts us as earnestly seeking, but lost victims. The God-centered view has us as utter rebels, in denial of what God has shown us (see Romans 1:18-31).
There has even been a shift in philosophy of ministry to people from a so-called “courtroom style” which has us as guilty sinners standing before our Judge, condemned, to a “relational style” which sees us as needy victims, getting in touch with our “felt needs” which God longs to meet.
This philosophical shift inevitably changes the way we view Jesus Christ and His work. In the God-centered view, Christ has come to satisfy the Wrath of God, to save us from the consequences of our sins. He is our Prophet, Priest and King, emphasized over and over in the sermons of the book of Acts as the Lord. He is gathering unto Himself a kingdom, and one day, every knee will bow to Him, and all will confess Him as Lord.
In the man-centered view, He is standing outside, with hat in hand, hoping that you will one day “get around to inviting Him into your heart,” making Him a “part of your life.” In that view, He is “always there for you,” hoping you will let Him be your personal Savior. Even if you do allow Him to be your personal Savior, He really hopes you will one day “make Him your Lord.” On the contrary, God Himself has made this Jesus Lord and Christ!
This brings us to our response. What should we do? Even in the phrases, the conflict between the two views is evident. Does God command all men everywhere to repent? Or is He asking us to invite Him into our heart? Is it our decision? Or, does He choose us? Who responds to whose initiative?
I believe that the answer to the current dilemma of powerlessness in the Church is the restoration of a high view of God, a balanced view of man, and consequently, a new appreciation for Jesus Christ!
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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