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am neither defending or going against anyone that has been discussed in this forum such as JM

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Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

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I love ya Carmela! That is exactly who I was thinking of when I said that! Dont you just look forward to meeting people like David? Daivd is a man that I believe both truly knew his own sin and human error and surely lived the consequences of it, but he was also a man who truly knew his GOD.

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I don't think I read about him running down other ministries though either.

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Originally posted by HisGrace:
This sister is starting to get tired again from trying to defend Benny, Joyce and Kenneth.

I'll leave you to your fun and games and get back to talking about Moses, Paul and Jesus.

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This sister is starting to get tired again from trying to defend Benny, Joyce and Kenneth.

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Praise God! Reading your Bible is a fantastic alternative to trying to defend these three!



That could make me feel a little Pentecostal myself!



Pentecostals do dance dont they? I hope so!

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Here we go again... ignore the question, switch the topic. You've got it down to an art...

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Originally posted by by_grace:
I was using the Mormons as an example, false is false.

It doesn't matter what package it is contained in.

and maybe you need to re-read your words if you think you have called no one a liar.

when they say they have heard it with their own ears, and then quote them for you, and you say "show me the money"...is that not saying liar?????

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Originally posted by HisGrace:
Anyway,it is really disturbing how society is bringing Jesus down to new lows every day, and I would like us to focus more on ways we can bring Him up to the highest levels he deserves.

Psalm 92:1-5 IT IS A GOOD THING TO GIVE THANKS UNTO THE LORD, AND TO SING PRAISES UNTO THY NAME, O MOST HIGH:

To shew forth thy lovingkindness in the morning, and thy faithfulness every night, Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound.

For thou, LORD, hast made me glad through thy work: I will triumph in the works of thy hands. O LORD, how great are thy works! and thy thoughts are very deep.
Thank-you Jesus

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Here we go again... ignore the question, switch the topic. You've got it down to an art...



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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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Originally posted by by_grace:
His grace, you are calling people liars when you say these things.

when they are heard with their own ears, why do you so quickly refute it? maybe the websites do not pin point those particular things out? I can tell you this, The Mormon church sure does not tell the whole story of what they believe!!!!

I have family that are mormon, and it is a shame that they have been drawn into this deception! have you ever seen the Mormon commercials? they DO NOT depict what they really believe!

neither does their websites mind you.

please stop attacking your brethren over their convictions, and stop calling them liars.

bygrace

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Originally posted by HisGrace:
I repeat -

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Originally posted by HisGrace:
you are just easily deceived.

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I hope you're looking in the mirror when you say that

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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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Originally posted by HisGrace:
I am not saying you are lying wparr - you are just easily deceived.

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Originally posted by yahsway:
HisGrace, do you ever LISTEN to these preachers and watch their shows?

I don't care what their website statements are. Most of their websites only sell their books or tell of what they are doing. But you will have to watch and listen to them preach on TV.

I heard this with my own ears. And Yes, KC did mean rape as being sodomized.

This is what he said.

"Let me tell you something folks. Anybody in here that's ever been sexually abused, listen to me right now. Listen to me very carefully. The bible's very CAREFUL about the way it says these things. But down there in that dungeon, Roman, ungodly men, ungodly men, put him (Jesus) to every kind of abuse that you can think of. There is no sin that Jesus didn't bare. There is no thing, there is no such thing as a sexual abuse on somebody that Jesus doesn't know firsthand what its all about. He's been where you are. I don't care wat you've been through, Jesus has been through it. And everything's done to Him that we we couldn't even speak of."


And I, yahsway, heard him say this. Now, you are an educated woman HisGrace, can you tell me that KC did not mean Jesus was raped in the lieral sense by his statement? Sheeessh.

And he teaches what Joyce Myers stopped preaching about, Jesus suffering in hell. He said, and I heard this with my own ears, that..

"It wasn't the physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin, anybody could do that"

This really got my attention, and so he went on to say that Jesus's spirit had to also die in hell and be resurrected up by God when God said "Enough" and brought Jesus back to life again.

I challange all of you out there, LISTEN to their broadcasts. Pay strict attention to what these men/women are preaching. See if it lines up with the word of God. Do not get caught up in the hype and entertainment, but really listen.

My husband gets so angry everytime I turn on the tv and listen to Benny Hinn, KC, ect..
I just tell him I have to hear them. I need to know what they are preaching to the peoples. Oh I do hear truth also, but most of the time it is mixed with lies. Thats what we call deception. And thats what Satan is so good at.

There is deception in the church folks. And its coming from the pulpit. It breaks my heart when I hear a statement like this that KC made one morning on his telecast. He said
"God is the biggest failure in the Bible, the reason you have never thought that is because He (meaning God) never said He was one".

Then KC went on to tell the reason why He(God) was the biggest failure was because He had to kick Satan out of heaven for his rebellion and He(God) lost a third of His angels.

This is what I call hoopola! Its sheer entertainment aimed at getting "Uneducated" people to believe this junk.

My God is not, was not, and never will be a FAILURE.

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Originally posted by wparr:
So are you implying I'm LYING that I heard KC say those words??

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Originally posted by yahsway:
The point is that Joyce Myers DID preach that salvation was impossible for anyone who did not believe that Jesus suffered in hell.

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The suffering in hell bit is adding to scripture. Kenneth Copeland said that the Roman guards "raped" (sodimized) Jesus before putting him on the cross, and to me that was also adding to scripture.

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Please STOP IT RIGHT THERE. This just shows the lengths people will go to drag someone through the mud. He wouldn't have meant that in a literal sense. You are better educated than that yahsway.

Rape - to destroy and strip of its possession (Example: "The soldiers raped the beautiful country")

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Originally posted by HisGrace:

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Originally posted by Carmela:
No one mentioned any of the good she does with her money, only pointing out the bad.

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It's more fun digging up dirt about people rather than looking at the good they do. If you go into Joyce Meyer's website you can see her ministry supports missions all over the world.

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Originally posted by wparr:
How much MORE good she could do if she lived more like a servant and less like a king.

If she got rid of her private jet, extravagant likestyle ect (in other words BIBLICALLY)

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Originally posted by Carmela:
No one mentioned any of the good she does with her money, only pointing out the bad.

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Originally posted by yahsway:
HisGrace, it maybe necessary to "re-hash" it because others are out there teaching the same thing.

I know I have heard Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn preach it, but to Joyce Myers credit she does not teach it anymore.

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I did not post it; Obviously this poster does not know that she no longer teaches this and has posted this article from CRI. I was telling him and anyone else who reads this that she has repented of teaching this. This is the thing that I stated in another thread that I wrote her about.

If we are going to talk about what she does in error, it ought at least to be accurate and I was setting it accurate.As Yahsway has said this is a terrible heresy and it is taught by many, but Joyce is not one of them at this time.

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Father, I come to You just as I am. There is nothing I can do to earn salvation I cannot work my way into a right relationship with You. The Bible says that we are saved by grace through faith as a gift from You. I confess that I have sinned against You and others. I ask You to forgive me and wash me clean with the precious, life-giving blood of Jesus Christ, Your Son. I believe that He died for me—He took my sin upon Himself and died on the cross for me. And I believe that He was raised from the dead, giving me power over the enemy. Jesus, I ask You to come live inside of me. I don't understand everything about being a Christian, but I invite You into my life to help me learn daily how I am to live. Thank You, Father, for Your gift of restoration and eternal life. I am so grateful for Your love and mercy. In Jesus' name, "

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Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
[QUOTE]She used to teach this; She no longer teaches this and she no longer prints this book; if she believes this still she does not teach it.

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In her 1991 booklet, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, she teaches a hallmark doctrine of Faith theology, namely, that Christ had to suffer in hell to atone for our sins and be born again:


During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin….He paid the price there.…no plan was too extreme…Jesus paid on the cross and in hell….God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, “Let Him go.” Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus….He was resurrected from the dead ¾ the first born-again man.[6]


Her assertions are not unlike those of leading Word of Faith proponent Kenneth Copeland, who also believes Christ’s death on the cross was not sufficient to atone for our sins, and that His work of redemption was completed by suffering in hell and being born again. According to Copeland,


When Jesus cried, “It is finished!” He was not speaking of the plan of redemption. There were still three days and nights to go through before He went to the throne….Jesus’ death on the cross was only the beginning of the complete work of redemption.7


[The] word of the living God went down into the pit of destruction and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life. He began to look like something the devil had never seen before. He was literally being reborn before the devil’s very eyes. He began to flex His spiritual muscles….Jesus was born again ¾ the first-born from the dead. 8


According to a recently published interview with free-lance writer Ken Walker, however, Meyer contradictorily denies ever believing or teaching that Christ was born again in hell.9


Moreover, in her 1991 booklet, Meyer asserts that salvation is impossible without believing Jesus suffered in hell as the believer’s substitute. Meyer writes, “There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell.”10


While historic Christianity has debated the issue of whether or not Jesus actually descended into hell (e.g., to proclaim the gospel, declare victory, etc. [1 Peter 3:18-19]), no orthodox believer ever held to


the belief that Christ suffered and atoned for our sins in hell, rather than on the cross. Yet, Word of

Faith teachers, including Joyce Meyer, teach the necessity of Jesus having to pay for our sins in hell, under the torment of Satan and his angels ¾ a teaching both unsubstantiated by and contrary to Scripture. The entirety of Christ’s atoning work (i.e., His suffering and death in our place) occurred on the cross (e.g., 1 Peter 2:24), ending with His proclamation, “It is finished” (John 19:30). The Christ of Faith theology literally had to become sin, taking on the nature of Satan while in hell, thereby needing to be born again in hell before His resurrection could occur.

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Originally posted by saved1948:
CHRISTIAN RESEARCH INSTITUTE
Moreover, in her 1991 booklet, Meyer asserts that salvation is impossible without believing Jesus suffered in hell as the believer’s substitute. Meyer writes, “There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell.”10

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OTHER QUESTIONABLE TEACHINGS

Although there is no biblical precedent, she makes the assertion that angels tell her what to preach:

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She goes on to promote the superstitious belief that certain kinds of jewelry attract evil spirits:

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To say that she is superstitious is a downright slander. Certain kinds of jewelery possibly could attract evil spirits. I am surprised that the author isn't more spiritually astute on how the devil is very real and a powerful force to be reckoned with. Many people wear the peace sign not really aware of its significance. You often see it on jewelry. I have seen adament unbelievers wearing crosses. Do you not think that the devil could use this as a powerful weapon?



"Throughout the last 2,000 years this symbol has designated hatred of Christians. Nero, who despised Christians, crucified the Apostle Peter on a cross head downward. This hideous event resembled the Teutonic cross and became a popular pagan insignia of the day. Thereafter, this sign became known as the 'Neronic cross.'

"The symbol's origin in history proves it to be the visual mystic character for 'Aum' (the split 'Y'). This is the sacred word to the Hindu. Chanting 'Aum' is supposed to help awaken 'the serpent power of Brahma' at the base of the human spine. Occultist Albert Pike also identifies this symbol as mystical in his book on Freemasonry Morals and Dogma.

The peace symbol (also called the "broken cross," "crow's foot," "witch's foot," "Nero Cross," "sign of the 'broken Jew,'" and the "symbol of the 'anti-Christ''') is actually a cross with the arms broken. It also signifies the "gesture of despair," and the "death of man.''

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Also problematic are some of Meyer’s beliefs regarding spiritual warfare. According to her, for instance, generational spirits supposedly torment families for generations with specific sins, and she even believes that a demon of lust torments her family. On one occasion she says,

I told you that there was a spirit of incest in my family bloodline….And the thing that I want you to understand today is when there’s a spirit like that in a bloodline, until some person believes on Jesus and takes the blood of Jesus and draws it across that natural bloodline, that devastation goes on for generations and generations….Well see, my father’s grandfather had problems and so his father had problems and so my dad had problems and so I had problems and so if I wouldn’t have stood and believed Jesus, my kids would have had problems and their kids would have had problems and so on and so on.15

Scripture, however, does not support the existence of a demon or spirit of lust, nor any demon of a particular sin. It is true that certain sins (e.g., alcoholism) are perpetuated and can affect families for generations (see Exod. 20:5; Num. 14:18), but these are the consequences of sin ¾ not generational spirits. James’ epistle is clear that we sin because of our own evil desires (v. 1:14). Demons cannot force us to sin; however, they can influence our behavior through temptation (e.g., Gen. 3:1-6). Nonetheless, we are ultimately held accountable for our actions (e.g., Ezek. 18:4, 20). If this were not so, we would have license to exclaim, “the Devil made me do it!”

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Because of Joyce Meyer’s adherence to a major tenet of Word of Faith theology and her subjective and unbiblical teachings concerning spiritual warfare, CRI cannot recommend her ministry.

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Spiritual warfare?? As we have already seen The Bible speaks very clearly about spiritual warfare.

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Originally posted by Carmela:
Joyce may have preached something in the past until God opened her eyes to the truth. The longer we remain Christians, the more revelation we receive. (we) meaning everyone. I know people always question why I use we or our statements.

This is why I think it's wrong to run people down when we should be praying for them instead.

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Hey Carmela,

I know what you mean about the "we" and "our" thing. Due to the huge chance that someone somewhere will misunderstand our intent, we sometimes have to write as though we're talking to children.

Hopefully Joyce's eyes have been opened to some past error. In theory, we all learn and grow. Maybe she'll turn the corner fully some day soon.

I don't think it's right to run people down either, but as you know, I also feel strongly about pointing out doctrinal error. We don't judge her, just what she says. Scripture backs this position clearly and solidly.

And you're right, we should indeed pray for those who are teaching falsely, as well as for those who follow them.

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