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Satan just played an April fool's joke on this message board. He lost though...and always will.

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Well was it funny???? nothing new, though that I missed it, my family teases me all the time for not getting the jokes people tell.

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I maybe wrong and am I just speaking from personal memory, but it seems that it is not a matter with Hinn that he has prophesied somethings that have not yet come to pass but that he has prophesied some things that DID not come to pass when and as he prophesied they would. I cannot remmber the specific one that comes to mind, but I remember talking about it in a Bible study group and people talking about viewing to see it come to pass.

I would ask you, can someone prophesy Thus say it the Lord... falsely and be a servant of the Lord? Scripturally? What does the scripture say about those that prophesy in this manner falsely?

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Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:

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I never petitioned David to open an Exposing forum, but was really delighted when he decided to do so, and thought, "Good - out of sight, out of mind."

However, I go where the Lord sends me to defend the truth. I don't want to go to Africa either, but if the Lord told me to go, I would have no choice but to obey.

No ministry is perfect, but I have never seen anything in the WOF'ers doctrine that would hinder anyone's salvation.

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Technically you are correct HisGrace, it was not you that wrote to david, it was our sister and your friend from another board whom you invited to join us here, Carmela and clearly from her posts on the subject she went and made that petition on behalf of you and GrandmaJoe as well as herself:

Here Carmela says "Our" intention: Who is this "Our"? Was it not you and Grandma Jo? There were only 5 who voted against these kind of threads in your little poll. I think it is pretty clear who at least 4 of those 5 are and not to difficult to know who the 5th one was. One person had no opinion.

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This is pure speculation HFHS. I had probably spoken to Carmela concerning being frustrated about apostacy permeating every thread and she probably was too. The dialogue between her and David was strictly her doing and I didn't have anything to do with what they were discussing with each other. I have thanked her different time since about being faithful to her convictions. ALL OF THE CREDIT GOES TO CARMELA.

Who made this quote?

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That isn't our intention, but anyone is welcome to read the posts. If you see that, we need to be informed because if David deletes them we won't realize what we said was offensive, the same goes if it is intentional. However, I feel it's best to tell us in PM rather than opening a whole drag out battle over it and then if that person continues, I would suggest sending David a PM and letting him know.

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This is you: Thanks David. Hoping that this will somewhat help solve the problem of a very difficult situation.

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Perhaps Hinn is a false prophet. I will leave that to the Lord as he is a servant of the Lord.


Then again, how long did the Jews wait for the Prophecies of the Old Testament?

Like Pleasemarantha stated, what is the(Hinn's) Fruit?

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I want a REAL Christianity, not a theory. I want the REAL God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
I want relationship with The GOD who resurrected Christ from the dead and relationship through Jesus Christ our Savior. and calls (me) His friend.

I believe in the God who parted the Red Sea, and rolled away the Stone, and Who Created the Heavens and the Earth. He's Holy and He's Awesome and Mighty. Lightning comes out of His arm, and the whole earth shakes at his Voice.

I don't know what else to say.

God declared His Word NEVER GOES FORTH VOID.

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Icon 1 posted April 01, 2006 04:24 PM Profile for WhiteEagle Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote

quote:Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Here are some IMPORTANT Points made by Sister Linda (Helpforhomeschoolers) in the above posts:

quote:There are people right now who are in our churches believing they have all things and are blessed beyond measure and they are naked, and blind and luke warm! There are people who are sitting on church pews today that tomorrow may hear I never knew you. There are people right now in this world strugggling with their faith because some preacher is telling them that they are still dying of cancer because they have not enough faith! There are people right now as we speak in bondage to sin in their flesh because all they hear about in their church is how to get material wealth and their preacher doesnt preach or use the word sin. There are right now people in churches that cant pay their rent and the church doesnt know and couldnt help if they wanted to because the wealth of that church is being consumed by some speaker at a camp meeting where the people do flock looking for something that they are not getting in their own church.

quote:When you tell me that that I can look around at your 400k home and 200k jet and what ever you can think of that you feel is blessing of God and tell me that you are living your reward... this is a sign of your faith... I say you are a liar because you do not have more faith than Paul and he had none of that.. you do not have more faith than a watchman Nee and he would have had no part of that! The Bible says we are blessed with all spiritual blessing in the heavenlies and in this life we will suffer because this world hates us as it hated him.

quote:When you tell me that you are without sickness because of your great faith and your bold prayers and because you believe that by HIS stripes you are healed. I say why? Why do you think that you have more faith than Paul's companion Epaphroditus, who was sick... nigh to death? Why do you think that you have more faith than the one who goes to their death praising God while their body is ravished by cancer and their hair falls out and their pain is beyond measure? How true to the word of God would this message be for this saint with cancer that has peace, Joy and power in the Holy Ghost though her body is being devoured from the inside out? Which message speaks of God most to those who watch each of these lives? Which illustration speaks most loudly of God's majesty to the angels?????

quote:When you tell me that because you just learned to believe God that he will give you the desires of your heart, just simply ask and believe and cars and planes and homes and new dresses what ever just come to you because you have learned to believe for them... and God just wills to bless you, I have to ask, why do you think that your faith is greater than the one that treks up a mountainside daily without shoes to preach Jesus to those in a remote village somewhere in India where people are dying and going to hell? Who is more in the will of God? How true to the word of God would your message of health wealth and prosperity and favormindedness ring in his ears?

To which I add a hardy AMEN! These are some of the Destructive Heresies that are being taught by Word Faith teachers! They are Lies from the Pit of Hell – a total Twisting of Scripture made by those who claim to be teachers of God’s Holy Word… they are the Wolves in Sheeps Clothing who are deceiving and making merchandise of you!

Regarding Benny Hinn… He has been PROVEN (by his own words) to be a False Prophet many times over. Why would anyone listen to someone who prophecies falsely (and not just once, but Several Times!)

Softouch,

Linda is correct those things do happen, but they also happen in churches that are "so called preaching" what You would agree with, as the Truth.


Truth without the Holy Spirit's leading and the willingness of each person to submit and humble themselves to God alone is legalism.


Truth without LOVE of God is legalism.

Many churches of all brands do good for the Kingdom, and (some churches you would probably agree with in their teachings) have split due to adultry by the pastor, or deacons, or issues over how the MONEY should be spent.

Some churches which are those of whom, you would be agreeing with doctrinally split over even more petty reasons, and have "members" in them who practice all sorts of deviant behavior in private, yet put on a pious face for the world.

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Linda

It would be an interesting study about the 7 spirits of God. I have never studied that specifically, but am aware that scripture doesn't implicitly state that God is triune exclusively. Trinity has been a solid doctrinal dogma of the Church.

God is mysterious to us to say the least

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Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

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I never petitioned David to open an Exposing forum, but was really delighted when he decided to do so, and thought, "Good - out of sight, out of mind."

However, I go where the Lord sends me to defend the truth. I don't want to go to Africa either, but if the Lord told me to go, I would have no choice but to obey.

No ministry is perfect, but I have never seen anything in the WOF'ers doctrine that would hinder anyone's salvation.

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That isn't our intention, but anyone is welcome to read the posts. If you see that, we need to be informed because if David deletes them we won't realize what we said was offensive, the same goes if it is intentional. However, I feel it's best to tell us in PM rather than opening a whole drag out battle over it and then if that person continues, I would suggest sending David a PM and letting him know.

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Thanks David. Hoping that this will somewhat help solve the problem of a very difficult situation.

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David,

I want to thank you just ever so much for your posting in which I'm so much in agreement with.
I've wanted for so long for the focus to be only on Jesus Christ and for there to be a really good bible study in the bible study section where it should be and so have many others - some were those who've left. With your help, David, Carmela is attempting to make it be a reality and I pray also for God's help to make it be a reality so very soon. There is so much I and others want to learn.

You provided two sections for those who wish to expose the false teachers and that's a very good thing so that they can stay in their own section when they feel the need to be there and post there for that's their perogative to do so.

From what I read in the above postings it seems as though some attacks are continuing against Red Kermit and Carmela and this should not be happening because it's totally uncalled for. Also to the one who said that when I post, I'm "saluting." I'm not "saluting" however I'm encouraging. I also think that sarcasm and rudeness are totally uncalled for.

Please just let us have a truly good bible study in a bible study section and those of you who do not want to participate do not have to. The two sections for exposing false teachings are there on this board for those who wish to use it.

Jesus Christ needs to be and should be the focus and now please let us have our bible study in our bible study section.

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Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Pleasemaranatha:
There are other OT examples of people bringing false accusations in court against others but think for a moment of these New Testament examples.

Think firstly of our Savior Jesus and his being accused falsely.

Here we see Israel’s judicial system at its very worst, condemning the one who authored it.

The Pharisees were continually on the lookout in regards to finding things to charge Jesus with. They were also scheming and thinking of ways to get him and arrest him. Why? Because they hated him and wanted him dead.

When you of Jesus’ trial in the scriptures it says “they accused him of many things”. They accused him of opposing taxes to Caesar. They accused him of subverting their nation and of stirring up the people everywhere. They accused him of claiming to be the Christ, a king, etc, etc.

What was it that distinguished Jesus at his trial in face of all the accusations?

1. He did not reply to their charges. He remained silent and the scriptures say that Pilate was amazed at this

2. In the words of Pilate “I find no basis for a charge against him”

Jesus was innocent and yet he went to the cross dying a criminals death—not for his owns sins, because he was sinless, but for our sins which he bore upon the cross.

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Originally posted by hardcore:
I'm taking a break for a minute. Now would be a good time for me to take a long overdue trip to the grocery store.

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Scoot over Sis... I'm comin with ya! Think I'll pick up some Tylenol while we're there

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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by hardcore:

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Originally posted by HisGrace:

However, I go where the Lord sends me to defend the truth.

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Are you kidding me with this?

Between this comment and WhiteEagle saying that Benny Hinn is good, I'm actually speechless at the moment. There's nothing I could say right now that wouldn't sound unbelievably rude or unkind. Lord have mercy on us all.

I'm taking a break for a minute. Now would be a good time for me to take a long overdue trip to the grocery store.

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Shake up is a good thing! Speechlessness can be wisdom.

Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by HisGrace:

However, I go where the Lord sends me to defend the truth.

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Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Here are some IMPORTANT Points made by Sister Linda (Helpforhomeschoolers) in the above posts:

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There are people right now who are in our churches believing they have all things and are blessed beyond measure and they are naked, and blind and luke warm! There are people who are sitting on church pews today that tomorrow may hear I never knew you. There are people right now in this world strugggling with their faith because some preacher is telling them that they are still dying of cancer because they have not enough faith! There are people right now as we speak in bondage to sin in their flesh because all they hear about in their church is how to get material wealth and their preacher doesnt preach or use the word sin. There are right now people in churches that cant pay their rent and the church doesnt know and couldnt help if they wanted to because the wealth of that church is being consumed by some speaker at a camp meeting where the people do flock looking for something that they are not getting in their own church.

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When you tell me that that I can look around at your 400k home and 200k jet and what ever you can think of that you feel is blessing of God and tell me that you are living your reward... this is a sign of your faith... I say you are a liar because you do not have more faith than Paul and he had none of that.. you do not have more faith than a watchman Nee and he would have had no part of that! The Bible says we are blessed with all spiritual blessing in the heavenlies and in this life we will suffer because this world hates us as it hated him.

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When you tell me that you are without sickness because of your great faith and your bold prayers and because you believe that by HIS stripes you are healed. I say why? Why do you think that you have more faith than Paul's companion Epaphroditus, who was sick... nigh to death? Why do you think that you have more faith than the one who goes to their death praising God while their body is ravished by cancer and their hair falls out and their pain is beyond measure? How true to the word of God would this message be for this saint with cancer that has peace, Joy and power in the Holy Ghost though her body is being devoured from the inside out? Which message speaks of God most to those who watch each of these lives? Which illustration speaks most loudly of God's majesty to the angels?????

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When you tell me that because you just learned to believe God that he will give you the desires of your heart, just simply ask and believe and cars and planes and homes and new dresses what ever just come to you because you have learned to believe for them... and God just wills to bless you, I have to ask, why do you think that your faith is greater than the one that treks up a mountainside daily without shoes to preach Jesus to those in a remote village somewhere in India where people are dying and going to hell? Who is more in the will of God? How true to the word of God would your message of health wealth and prosperity and favormindedness ring in his ears?

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To which I add a hardy AMEN! These are some of the Destructive Heresies that are being taught by Word Faith teachers! They are Lies from the Pit of Hell – a total Twisting of Scripture made by those who claim to be teachers of God’s Holy Word… they are the Wolves in Sheeps Clothing who are deceiving and making merchandise of you!

Regarding Benny Hinn… He has been PROVEN (by his own words) to be a False Prophet many times over. Why would anyone listen to someone who prophecies falsely (and not just once, but Several Times!)

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Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Joyce,What they're saying is true. It was HisGrace and a few others who petitioned David (the owner of this board) to create this section so they didn't have to 'deal' with reading our threads exposing the Error and Falsehoods of certain teachers/self-proclaimed prophets. Now, the same folks who wanted this section so bad (so they didn't have to read this stuff) are coming in here and complaining... it doesn't make any sense to me.

I explained to you in private (because you asked me) that it's not that we don't 'like' anyone... it's about God's Word and keeping it Unadultrated or UnTwisted, and Prayerfully, in the process, pulling some folks out of the Fake Fire of the False Word Faith movement (as well as other Apostate movements which are on the rise).

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Originally posted by SoftTouch:

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Originally posted by WhiteEagle:

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Hardcore writes: Can you please tell us which heresy you are seeing?

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WhiteEagle replies: Christians attacking other Christians over doctrinal side issues.

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What I see is that you are not Reading Linda's posts here or you would understand that those teachings are not side issues but Destructive Hersies.

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Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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There are people right now who are in our churches believing they have all things and are blessed beyond measure and they are naked, and blind and luke warm! There are people who are sitting on church pews today that tomorrow may hear I never knew you. There are people right now in this world strugggling with their faith because some preacher is telling them that they are still dying of cancer because they have not enough faith! There are people right now as we speak in bondage to sin in their flesh because all they hear about in their church is how to get material wealth and their preacher doesnt preach or use the word sin. There are right now people in churches that cant pay their rent and the church doesnt know and couldnt help if they wanted to because the wealth of that church is being consumed by some speaker at a camp meeting where the people do flock looking for something that they are not getting in their own church.

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When you tell me that that I can look around at your 400k home and 200k jet and what ever you can think of that you feel is blessing of God and tell me that you are living your reward... this is a sign of your faith... I say you are a liar because you do not have more faith than Paul and he had none of that.. you do not have more faith than a watchman Nee and he would have had no part of that! The Bible says we are blessed with all spiritual blessing in the heavenlies and in this life we will suffer because this world hates us as it hated him.

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When you tell me that you are without sickness because of your great faith and your bold prayers and because you believe that by HIS stripes you are healed. I say why? Why do you think that you have more faith than Paul's companion Epaphroditus, who was sick... nigh to death? Why do you think that you have more faith than the one who goes to their death praising God while their body is ravished by cancer and their hair falls out and their pain is beyond measure? How true to the word of God would this message be for this saint with cancer that has peace, Joy and power in the Holy Ghost though her body is being devoured from the inside out? Which message speaks of God most to those who watch each of these lives? Which illustration speaks most loudly of God's majesty to the angels?????

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quote:

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When you tell me that because you just learned to believe God that he will give you the desires of your heart, just simply ask and believe and cars and planes and homes and new dresses what ever just come to you because you have learned to believe for them... and God just wills to bless you, I have to ask, why do you think that your faith is greater than the one that treks up a mountainside daily without shoes to preach Jesus to those in a remote village somewhere in India where people are dying and going to hell? Who is more in the will of God? How true to the word of God would your message of health wealth and prosperity and favormindedness ring in his ears?

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Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | 

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You see this is what I'm talking about. Linda, I love ya, but..... all this fuss about what Benny Hinn says about God being triune x 3.

It might surprise you that in scripture that Revelation talks about the 7 Spirit of God.

Rev.1:4, Rev. 3:1, and Rev 4:5.

Zechariah 3:9, 4:2, mentions about the seven spirits of God and in Zechariah 4:2-6 which is the vision of Zechariah of the 7 lights on the lampstand and the 2 witnessess. Altogether the 9 components is called the Word of the Lord to Zerubbabel by the angel. Then the well-known verse of Not by power, nor by might, but by My Spirit sayeth the Lord.

Zechariah 4:10 says that 7 is the number of the eyes of the Lord, which range throughout the earth.

God is more more more than we can fathom in His layers and facets and dimentions.

Yes I believe in the trinity concept due to 1 John in that the 3 bear witness in heaven, and other verses, but to remind you all, that the Word Trinity is NOT in the Bible. I could be wrong, and please correct me with scripture and verse, but I don't recall any verse in the Bible that says distinctly that "God in 3 persons, blessed Trinity". (that's from a song btw)

I don't know if Hinn is correct, but what he is spouting does NOT affect Salvation through Jesus Christ alone.


I stand by what I wrote to Caretaker. Writing pious words does not make one more spiritual. Even the disciples didn't recognize Jesus when He showed up after the Resurrection at first.

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Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by hardcore:

....and still, Hisgrace, you come in over and over as if you were the "post police".

If indeed you are bothered so very much, why do you continue to enter? It is just baffling!

good grief.

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by_grace!!!! Now there's a "grace" that's truly a sight for sore eyes around here.

I couldn't agree with you more; or HFHS or Caretaker.

The lack of discernment on this board, particularly in the "Exposing" forum, never ceases to amaze me; and yet, the bible tells us this would happen. How one can admit that they watch Benny Hinn or Kenneth Copeland and then turn around and try to convince themselves and others that they have discernment, is beyond me. They only fool themselves - darn near zero credibility for me at this point.

You're right, the "post police" in here are the very ones who whined and whined about these conversations; so much so that a new room was created. And yet here they are. Go figure. Apparently our threads weren't really that disturbing to them after all.

Oh well, as long as people continue to defend these false teachings, it gives us an opportunity to get the Truth out. Thankfully, not everyone will be deceived.

Good to see you! [/QB][/QUOTE]


Again:

WHAT IS TRUTH?"


If I were still going to the Baptist church of my childhood, I would most likely agree with you.

Praise God! He took me out of that Bondage of legalism and one-dimentionsal living.

God's TRUTH is found in Jesus Christ and is a LIVING, BREATHING, VITAL, and ABUNDANT AND DOESN'T LEAVE US WHERE WE WERE.


WE all see through the glass darkly, and what I see is the bondage in the darkness when people degrade things they do not yet understand.

The TRUTH takes us to the dark areas of our hearts and shines the light on it.

God is NOT one dimentional and flat like the pages on one's Bible.

I certainly don't know all Truth, like you think you do.

Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by WhiteEagle:

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WhiteEagle replies: Christians attacking other Christians over doctrinal side issues.

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Originally posted by hardcore:

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Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Well, I didn't request that. I'm here, and I'm seeing lots of heresy, but not what you think it is.

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Can you please tell us which heresy you are seeing?

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Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by hardcore:

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Originally posted by WhiteEagle:

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Originally posted by hardcore:

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Originally posted by Pleasemaranatha:
I do know some false prophets and teachers. But some of the ones you name are good not bad.

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Which ones would those be?

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Let's see, The Mormons preach a different Jesus, so do the Jehovah Witnesses, and the Muslims also preach as Different Jesus, as well as the New Age movement.

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Pleasemaranatha mentioned that some that we think are bad, are actually good. That's what I was asking. Which ones are the good ones that we are misinformed about?

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Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Well, I didn't request that. I'm here, and I'm seeing lots of heresy, but not what you think it is.

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Originally posted by WhiteEagle:

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Originally posted by hardcore:

quote:

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Originally posted by Pleasemaranatha:
I do know some false prophets and teachers. But some of the ones you name are good not bad.

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Which ones would those be?

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Let's see, The Mormons preach a different Jesus, so do the Jehovah Witnesses, and the Muslims also preach as Different Jesus, as well as the New Age movement.

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Originally posted by hardcore:

quote:

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Originally posted by Pleasemaranatha:
I do know some false prophets and teachers. But some of the ones you name are good not bad.

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Which ones would those be?

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Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Joyce,

What they're saying is true. It was HisGrace and a few others who petitioned David (the owner of this board) to create this section so they didn't have to 'deal' with reading our threads exposing the Error and Falsehoods of certain teachers/self-proclaimed prophets. Now, the same folks who wanted this section so bad (so they didn't have to read this stuff) are coming in here and complaining... it doesn't make any sense to me.

I explained to you in private (because you asked me) that it's not that we don't 'like' anyone... it's about God's Word and keeping it Unadultrated or UnTwisted, and Prayerfully, in the process, pulling some folks out of the Fake Fire of the False Word Faith movement (as well as other Apostate movements which are on the rise).

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Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Pleasemaranatha:
I do know some false prophets and teachers. But some of the ones you name are good not bad.

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Originally posted by by_grace:
Amen HFHS! my thoughts exactly.

I was thinking the very same thing when I saw yet another "I am leaving" thread.

how many times does this make now? and all over the same silliness.

This part of the forum has been put here by David as was requested....and still, Hisgrace, you come in over and over as if you were the "post police".

If indeed you are bothered so very much, why do you continue to enter? It is just baffling!

good grief.

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by_grace!!!! Now there's a "grace" that's truly a sight for sore eyes around here.

I couldn't agree with you more; or HFHS or Caretaker.

The lack of discernment on this board, particularly in the "Exposing" forum, never ceases to amaze me; and yet, the bible tells us this would happen. How one can admit that they watch Benny Hinn or Kenneth Copeland and then turn around and try to convince themselves and others that they have discernment, is beyond me. They only fool themselves - darn near zero credibility for me at this point.

You're right, the "post police" in here are the very ones who whined and whined about these conversations; so much so that a new room was created. And yet here they are. Go figure. Apparently our threads weren't really that disturbing to them after all.

Oh well, as long as people continue to defend these false teachings, it gives us an opportunity to get the Truth out. Thankfully, not everyone will be deceived.

Good to see you!

Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Ah HisGrace you are still here. I thought you might be here all along and if not I thought you would certainly be back; If I am really honest about my thoughts on your opening post here, I saw it as a ploy to have people jump in and say "Oh, HisGrace.. dont go!" as you have in the past made posts such as the one that opened this thread and then come back. I had no reason to believe that it would be any different this time. Some people just need that kind of attention every once and a while. That is why I did not respond to the opening post of this thread.

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Exactly

And AMEN on your Post about Drews post to HisGrace

And Welcome Back By_Grace!!!! It's good to see you here Sis!

--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:

quote:

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White Eagle writes to Caretaker: The Trouble is regarding your quote about teaching contrary to the Word of God.... YOu are basing it on a very rigid and narrow view according to the judgement of Caretaker.

I'll go with the Holy Spirit, thank you very much.

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The Holy Spirit does not contradict scripture. None of us should be interpreting scripture... we should be seeking to see how the scripture interprets scripture. The Holy Spirit will never cause someone to interpret scripture in such a way that scripture contradicts with what the Holy Spirit is teaching.

quote:

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Also Benny Hinn has not denied that Christ is come in the Flesh. He preaches Christ, in a fullness that you are not able to receive.

That's my opinion.

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I know you did not write the above to me, but how much do you listen to Hinn? Have you read any of his books? I dont know what it is that Hinn preaches, and I would not call it Christ, though he does; I might call it gnosticism with a twist, but I am thankful not to be able to receive it. This is a good example of what I speak of:

quote:

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"See, God the Father is a person, God the Son is a person, God the Holy Spirit is a person. But each one of them is a triune being by himself. If I can shock you, and maybe I should, there's nine of them."13 Hinn clearly rejects the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity for a bizarre formulation which is, in effect, tri-theism to the third power! While tri-theism is, as we have seen, a somewhat popular dogma taught by Bible teachers like Jimmy Swaggart, Hinn's formulation of this takes on a new dimension. In orthodox Trinitarianism, God is said to be one in substance, and three in person. Benny Hinn abandons this formula by insisting upon defining the persons in the Godhead in such a way as to destroy the idea of God existing in only one substance. For Hinn, God is not one in substance at all, but only one in purpose. Hinn writes of the Godhead, "what is true about one does not necessarily apply to all three. They are different, even in the way They move and in the way They talk. We've already discussed the fact that members of the Godhead are distinct persons -- yet they are one."14 But what does Hinn mean by his orthodox sounding assertion that they are one? "The Trinity, as we will see, is comprised of three distinct and unique entities. But you need to understand Their Oneness -- Their unity. It is essential that you recognize that the all-embracing Oneness we are talking about is connected to the work of the Godhead" (Italics in the original).15

Thus the oneness found in the Godhead is related only to the work of God, what is spoken of as the economic relationship within the Trinity. Hinn then goes on to cite I Corinthians 12:5-6 as a definition of the oneness of God. "There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but the same God who works in all." This text is used to set out how the oneness of God is economic (characteristic of tri-theism), rather than ontological (that is, one in substance, as in orthodox Trinitarianism).

Paul was unfolding the working of the Godhead. He explained that the Lord Jesus is the administrator, the Father is the operator, and the Holy Ghost is the manifestor....What is the primary work of the Father? He operates. And what about the Son? He administrates the operation of the Father. And the Holy Ghost manifests the administration of that operation.16

In other words, according to Hinn, what Paul is telling us is that these three distinct "gods," each with a body, a soul and a spirit, work so well together, and in such harmony that they are one - kind of one big, happy, divine family if you will!

In order to interpret Paul in this fashion, and to make him out to be a fellow tri-theist, Hinn must reject what orthodox Christians have considered the essential element to make sense of the Biblical data describing God as existing in three distinct persons. This is the fundamental point that the three persons of the Godhead are one in purpose because they are one in substance. The Scriptures repeatedly declare that there is only one God, and that each of the three persons of the Trinity mentioned in the Scriptures - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - are each called God. If these persons are not one in substance, then logically they are three distinct gods, each with their own unique substances. This reduces Christianity to polytheism. Benny Hinn, therefore, is not orthodox in his views on the Trinity. He leaves us with three distinct gods, who are each triune (with body, soul and spirit), and who do not share the same common substance, but are only one in purpose. Hinn's "god" therefore, is three in substance and nine in person. This is simply nonsense, for it amounts to tri-theism.

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You can read this article in full at:

http://www.modernreformation.org/krhinn.htm


The above is not from some "heresy hunter" webiste either, it was written by Dr. Kim Riddlebarger for Modern Reformation Magazine; Dr. Riddlebarger is the senior pastor of Christ Reformed Church in Anaheim, CA [URCNA], visiting professor of systematic theology at Westminster Seminary California, and co-host of The White Horse Inn radio program. I do not agree with him on all matters of theology, but i believe that the article does address some major issues with Hinn and does document well its sources, as you can see in the Bibliography.

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White Eagle says to Drew:It's ironic that you quote Romans 8:35-39 about the Love of Christ after you have backstabbed the very ministers of the Gospel of whom you disagree with and call heretics.

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What is your definition of backstabbing? I cannot see any where that Drew has ever backstabbed anyone. Can you show an example of what you feel was backstabbing?

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White Eagle: Sometimes when I'm reading these discussions, I believe with great fear, that if Christ Himself posted on this forum; you and some others would attack Him as being the son of the DEVIL, just as the Pharisees did.

Just my opinion.

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I have to tell you that because I find Drew to be a very solid person both doctrinally and personally, and I have seen in him much much much spiritual fruit, I was offened to read this.

One can be deceived and deny scriptural truth; one can be ignorant of scriptural truth; one can naivly and blindly defend the devil's work belieiving it to be good. Ignorance, deception, niavity can cause us to mistake the enemy for good.

BUT there is only 1 way to mistake Christ for the enemy as the Pharisee did....there is only one way that one could attack Christ as the Pharisee did and that is to lack knowledge of the Father and indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit... to be an unregenerate man... not born again.

It is one thing to diagree with what you see as someone's "interpetation" of the Bible; it is quite another to say what you have just said to Drew. I pray that you just have not thought through the implications of this statement.

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Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Caretaker:
To HisGrace:

1) You were one of those who desired that all studies of deception and heresy be moved from the Bible Study forum to the Exposing forum so that you would not have to be exposed to it.

2) You continue to enter the Exposing forum to defend any false teacher from Benny Hinn to Joel Osteen, and to seek to undermine the credibility of anyone speaking-out against the horrendous deception in the Church.

3) Deception is like an abcess, a wound which is filled with putrid pus, and not easily discernable with blinded eye. The poison is infiltrating the surrounding cell tissue, and if left untreated, or covered-up will continue to infect the Body and eventually kill through blood-poisoning. It has to be "lanced". the wound opened-up and exposed in order for the poison to be drained-out and healing enter-in.

4) The poison is sheer ugly, evil with a horrible stench in the Body. You can make all the protestations and declare, "that if you don't play nice I am going to pick-up my toys and go home", but you won't change the need for poison control one iota, nor the posts of those who have such a heart for the Word and desire for the Truth.

The trenches are ugly, the face of the enemy has a broad smile and warm personae, a false mask which conceals sheer putrid evil, and is leading so many into the dark pit of destruction, on a multitude of fronts.

You can be part of the cure, or you can continue to be part of the problem. One can enable heresy to proliferate, to seek to cover-over the festering wounds of deception with the broad brush of "sweetness and light", or one can "lance" through the layers of deception and allow the wound to be exposed, the abscess drained, and healing to begin.

It will never be sweetness and light in the trenches, but Praise God His Light will pierce through the darkness, will break asunder the shackles and will set captives free.

Romans 8:
35: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36: As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37: Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39: Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

Ah HisGrace you are still here. I thought you might be here all along and if not I thought you would certainly be back; If I am really honest about my thoughts on your opening post here, I saw it as a ploy to have people jump in and say "Oh, HisGrace.. dont go!" as you have in the past made posts such as the one that opened this thread and then come back. I had no reason to believe that it would be any different this time. Some people just need that kind of attention every once and a while. That is why I did not respond to the opening post of this thread.

quote:

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never go by second-hand information. HFHS you said that you don't know what Benny Hinn preaches. If you are ready to expound on him so much, how come?

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Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                

quote:

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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I know you did not write the above to me, but how much do you listen to Hinn? Have you read any of his books? I dont know what it is that Hinn preaches, and I would not call it Christ, though he does; I might call it gnosticism with a twist, but I am thankful not to be able to receive it. This is a good example of what I speak of:

"See, God the Father is a person, God the Son is a person, God the Holy Spirit is a person. But each one of them is a triune being by himself. If I can shock you, and maybe I should, there's nine of them."13 Hinn clearly rejects the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity for a bizarre formulation which is, in effect, tri-theism to the third power! While tri-theism is, as we have seen, a somewhat popular dogma taught by Bible teachers like Jimmy Swaggart, Hinn's formulation of this takes on a new dimension. In orthodox Trinitarianism, God is said to be one in substance, and three in person. Benny Hinn abandons this formula by insisting upon defining the persons in the Godhead in such a way as to destroy the idea of God existing in only one substance. For Hinn, God is not one in substance at all, but only one in purpose. Hinn writes of the Godhead, "what is true about one does not necessarily apply to all three. They are different, even in the way They move and in the way They talk. We've already discussed the fact that members of the Godhead are distinct persons -- yet they are one."14 But what does Hinn mean by his orthodox sounding assertion that they are one? "The Trinity, as we will see, is comprised of three distinct and unique entities. But you need to understand Their Oneness -- Their unity. It is essential that you recognize that the all-embracing Oneness we are talking about is connected to the work of the Godhead" (Italics in the original).15

Thus the oneness found in the Godhead is related only to the work of God, what is spoken of as the economic relationship within the Trinity. Hinn then goes on to cite I Corinthians 12:5-6 as a definition of the oneness of God. "There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but the same God who works in all." This text is used to set out how the oneness of God is economic (characteristic of tri-theism), rather than ontological (that is, one in substance, as in orthodox Trinitarianism).

Paul was unfolding the working of the Godhead. He explained that the Lord Jesus is the administrator, the Father is the operator, and the Holy Ghost is the manifestor....What is the primary work of the Father? He operates. And what about the Son? He administrates the operation of the Father. And the Holy Ghost manifests the administration of that operation.16

In other words, according to Hinn, what Paul is telling us is that these three distinct "gods," each with a body, a soul and a spirit, work so well together, and in such harmony that they are one - kind of one big, happy, divine family if you will!

In order to interpret Paul in this fashion, and to make him out to be a fellow tri-theist, Hinn must reject what orthodox Christians have considered the essential element to make sense of the Biblical data describing God as existing in three distinct persons. This is the fundamental point that the three persons of the Godhead are one in purpose because they are one in substance. The Scriptures repeatedly declare that there is only one God, and that each of the three persons of the Trinity mentioned in the Scriptures - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - are each called God. If these persons are not one in substance, then logically they are three distinct gods, each with their own unique substances. This reduces Christianity to polytheism. Benny Hinn, therefore, is not orthodox in his views on the Trinity. He leaves us with three distinct gods, who are each triune (with body, soul and spirit), and who do not share the same common substance, but are only one in purpose. Hinn's "god" therefore, is three in substance and nine in person. This is simply nonsense, for it amounts to tri-theism.

---

I don't need any Dr. Riddlebargers, with pre-conceived agendas and biased opinions, to interpret what Benny Hinn or anyone else says. I test their words out in the Bible and use my own discernment.

Notice that 3/4 of the 'quote' is by Riddlebarger and 1/4 is what Hinn supposedly said. Looks like Dr.R is the one doing the 'twisting.'

I never go by second-hand information. HFHS you said that you don't know what Benny Hinn preaches. If you are ready to expound on him so much, how come?

Probably some are uncomfortable to see me back, but others encouraged me to do so, so here I am.

IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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White Eagle writes to Caretaker: The Trouble is regarding your quote about teaching contrary to the Word of God.... YOu are basing it on a very rigid and narrow view according to the judgement of Caretaker.

I'll go with the Holy Spirit, thank you very much.

---

quote:

---

Also Benny Hinn has not denied that Christ is come in the Flesh. He preaches Christ, in a fullness that you are not able to receive.

That's my opinion.

---

quote:

---

"See, God the Father is a person, God the Son is a person, God the Holy Spirit is a person. But each one of them is a triune being by himself. If I can shock you, and maybe I should, there's nine of them."13 Hinn clearly rejects the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity for a bizarre formulation which is, in effect, tri-theism to the third power! While tri-theism is, as we have seen, a somewhat popular dogma taught by Bible teachers like Jimmy Swaggart, Hinn's formulation of this takes on a new dimension. In orthodox Trinitarianism, God is said to be one in substance, and three in person. Benny Hinn abandons this formula by insisting upon defining the persons in the Godhead in such a way as to destroy the idea of God existing in only one substance. For Hinn, God is not one in substance at all, but only one in purpose. Hinn writes of the Godhead, "what is true about one does not necessarily apply to all three. They are different, even in the way They move and in the way They talk. We've already discussed the fact that members of the Godhead are distinct persons -- yet they are one."14 But what does Hinn mean by his orthodox sounding assertion that they are one? "The Trinity, as we will see, is comprised of three distinct and unique entities. But you need to understand Their Oneness -- Their unity. It is essential that you recognize that the all-embracing Oneness we are talking about is connected to the work of the Godhead" (Italics in the original).15

Thus the oneness found in the Godhead is related only to the work of God, what is spoken of as the economic relationship within the Trinity. Hinn then goes on to cite I Corinthians 12:5-6 as a definition of the oneness of God. "There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but the same God who works in all." This text is used to set out how the oneness of God is economic (characteristic of tri-theism), rather than ontological (that is, one in substance, as in orthodox Trinitarianism).

Paul was unfolding the working of the Godhead. He explained that the Lord Jesus is the administrator, the Father is the operator, and the Holy Ghost is the manifestor....What is the primary work of the Father? He operates. And what about the Son? He administrates the operation of the Father. And the Holy Ghost manifests the administration of that operation.16

In other words, according to Hinn, what Paul is telling us is that these three distinct "gods," each with a body, a soul and a spirit, work so well together, and in such harmony that they are one - kind of one big, happy, divine family if you will!

In order to interpret Paul in this fashion, and to make him out to be a fellow tri-theist, Hinn must reject what orthodox Christians have considered the essential element to make sense of the Biblical data describing God as existing in three distinct persons. This is the fundamental point that the three persons of the Godhead are one in purpose because they are one in substance. The Scriptures repeatedly declare that there is only one God, and that each of the three persons of the Trinity mentioned in the Scriptures - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - are each called God. If these persons are not one in substance, then logically they are three distinct gods, each with their own unique substances. This reduces Christianity to polytheism. Benny Hinn, therefore, is not orthodox in his views on the Trinity. He leaves us with three distinct gods, who are each triune (with body, soul and spirit), and who do not share the same common substance, but are only one in purpose. Hinn's "god" therefore, is three in substance and nine in person. This is simply nonsense, for it amounts to tri-theism.

---

quote:

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White Eagle says to Drew:It's ironic that you quote Romans 8:35-39 about the Love of Christ after you have backstabbed the very ministers of the Gospel of whom you disagree with and call heretics.

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quote:

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White Eagle: Sometimes when I'm reading these discussions, I believe with great fear, that if Christ Himself posted on this forum; you and some others would attack Him as being the son of the DEVIL, just as the Pharisees did.

Just my opinion.

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Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Caretaker:
To HisGrace:

1) You were one of those who desired that all studies of deception and heresy be moved from the Bible Study forum to the Exposing forum so that you would not have to be exposed to it.

2) You continue to enter the Exposing forum to defend any false teacher from Benny Hinn to Joel Osteen, and to seek to undermine the credibility of anyone speaking-out against the horrendous deception in the Church.

3) Deception is like an abcess, a wound which is filled with putrid pus, and not easily discernable with blinded eye. The poison is infiltrating the surrounding cell tissue, and if left untreated, or covered-up will continue to infect the Body and eventually kill through blood-poisoning. It has to be "lanced". the wound opened-up and exposed in order for the poison to be drained-out and healing enter-in.

4) The poison is sheer ugly, evil with a horrible stench in the Body. You can make all the protestations and declare, "that if you don't play nice I am going to pick-up my toys and go home", but you won't change the need for poison control one iota, nor the posts of those who have such a heart for the Word and desire for the Truth.

The trenches are ugly, the face of the enemy has a broad smile and warm personae, a false mask which conceals sheer putrid evil, and is leading so many into the dark pit of destruction, on a multitude of fronts.

You can be part of the cure, or you can continue to be part of the problem. One can enable heresy to proliferate, to seek to cover-over the festering wounds of deception with the broad brush of "sweetness and light", or one can "lance" through the layers of deception and allow the wound to be exposed, the abscess drained, and healing to begin.

It will never be sweetness and light in the trenches, but Praise God His Light will pierce through the darkness, will break asunder the shackles and will set captives free.

Romans 8:
35: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36: As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37: Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39: Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

---

Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Caretaker:
If a teacher is wresting scripture and teaching contrary to the Word, it matters not how "good" it feels/appears, it is corrupt.

There are large numbers who flock to, and defend Benny Hinn, and he is as false and corrupt as any of the current flock on TBN.

Rev. 3:
17: Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19: As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

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Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged |