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Topic: Joel Osteen's New Age Professions
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
think of that song... there is a beautiful video that goes with it and shows a saint arriving in heaven and being greated by people they do not know but whom their lives touched. ughhh what is that song??? something about a life that was changed? do you know it? It makes me cry every time I hear it and now I cant think of the name of it or who sings it.
Would it be "Thank You For Giving To The Lord?" I Love that song!
I haven't finished reading your post yet, but I wanted to see if I could answer that question ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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HisGrace
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Yes, it not only shows how we store up treasures in heaven, but by learning humility, we can abound on earth as well.
We see the word abound twice in Phil. 4 and also the word flourish once. Their definitions -
Abound - abundant or plentiful; to exist in large quantities.
Flourish - gain in wealth; grow stronger.
It is clear that Paul is talking about, not only treasures in heaven, but his needs on this earth.
Phil.4:10-17 But I rejoiced in the Lord that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity. Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am therewith to be content.I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
~Paul knew how to survive under dire circumstances with patient contentment,and he also knew how to handle ample supply with prayerful gratitude. In verse 10 he says that once again he is flourishing again because of the care of the Philippians.
Vrs's 15-17- Now ye Philippians know also, that in the of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only. For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity. Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.
~The churches hadn't yet the importance of giving and receiving, except for the Philippians. Because of this Paul desired that they would gain much fruit and rewards back into their account. He rejoiced at his gifts, not because he was covetous, but that it would result in their own rewards by fruit into their accounts.
When we bear fruit out of giving, it not only lays up treasures in heaven, but we are blessed with every need being fulfilled on earth -
Vrs's 18,19- But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.
What would be the fruit and reward for their giving of gifts?
"BUT MY GOD SHALL SUPPLY ALL YOUR NEED according to his riches in glory by
Christ Jesus.
~Paul had learnt how to accept bounty by learning to keep his heart right in
prospertiy. It requires just as much grace as in adversity.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Paul is a missonary; Paul was orginally commisioned and sent out by the church of Antioch to preach the Gospel and start new churches; Paul pointedly did not take pay for his preaching; Paul made tents to support himself, but Paul did accept gifts from this church at Philippi.
This church at Philippi was begun on his 2nd misionary journey somewhere around 51 AD. It is the first church Paul established in Europe. Luke was pastor here for the first 6 years. Hisotrically the church at Philippi is said to be one of the most pure of the NT churches. It is now some 10 years after Paul established the church at Philippi, Paul is in prison now in Rome and he writes to them after having received a gift from them brought by Epaphroditas. This is particularly moving to know because Paul's life has up to this point been anything but easy. He has been mobbed beaten, accused, persecuted, imprisioned, and at this time in prison he has been alone almost it seemed at times forgotten, and yet his word to the Philippians is rejoice, be full of Joy and peace... this was Paul! Having nothing and yet possessing all things! What a glorious testimony of the sufficiency of Christ!
Philippians 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
Paul says they learned from him, they received from him, they heard from him and they saw him walk his talk... now he says to them do as you have seen and heard and been taught and the GOD of PEACE shall be with you! Paul knows the God of Peace and Paul knows PEACE in all circumstances.
10 ¶ But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity.
Paul says you cared for me and I flourish again because of your care for me. What had they done? They sent him a gift of money to help him with his need.
11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. 12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
Paul says I do not flourish because I wanted and you filled my need because I am content with what I have no matter how much or how little. I love these words... I know how to be abased and how to abound! God has instructed him to be full and to be hungry at the same time all the time, to abound and to suffer need. Paul did not expect all his needs to be met, but Paul understood to be full even so... to abound even so.
13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
How can he be like this??? Paul says! I can do all things through Christ wich stenghtens me!
14 Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction.
Paul says but even though this is so of me, you did bear my burden still... you communicated with my need my affliction, you cared for me; you thought about what I might need and you reached out to me!
15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.
16 For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.
Not only that, but you Philippians are the only ones and you did it not this time only but twice before this!
17 Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.
Not because Paul told them he needed or asked of them and he does not take it because he desires a gift, but he takes it because in his taking their blessing to him, they are blessed!!! Fruit abounds to their account. What fruit? His fruit. When Paul's fruit is gathered and God takes stock of all the souls that received the Gospel by his preaching and teaching.... that fruit of the Gospel that he preached is also fruit not just in his basket but in theirs because they made it possible for him to do what he did. As you said.. storing up treasure in heaven... souls saved are the fruit of the Gospel. I think of that song... there is a beautiful video that goes with it and shows a saint arriving in heaven and being greated by people they do not know but whom their lives touched. ughhh what is that song??? something about a life that was changed? do you know it? It makes me cry every time I hear it and now I cant think of the name of it or who sings it. But this scripture speaks to it.
18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.
Paul says because of your gift I am full and the sacrifice you made for me was a sacrifice made to God.
19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
20 ¶ Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Paul tells them that God will take care of them as they have taken care of the one that is God's.... that being Paul who was their brother in Christ and was doing the will of God.
This is a beautiful testimony of how the church/body is taught to perceive and care for and minster to the needs of the body and how when it does that the fruit of the one in the body is fruit of the whole body. This is a picture of kingdom economics.
It also is a powerful witness of the power of Christ to make us to be full of peace and joy no matter our circumstance. It also witnesses to me Paul's faith.. he did not need to ask for gifts; all things by prayer and supplication, Paul made his needs known to God who supplied his needs here by moving in the spirit of the Philippians to think of Paul.
Paul restates his faith in this by saying to the Philippians.. MY God will supply all your needs, just as he has mine.
Good stuff. I love this letter.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Yes indeed but what were they doing that was putting fruit in their account and what was the fruit?
Helping others in need.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Yes indeed but what were they doing that was putting fruit in their account and what was the fruit?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
This is such a good scripture:
Philippians 4:17
Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account
What does Paul speak of that they are doing that will cause fruit to abound in their account?
It's all about laying up rewards and treasures in heaven.
Matthew 6:19-21 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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This is such a good scripture:
Philippians 4:17
Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account
What does Paul speak of that they are doing that will cause fruit to abound in their account?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
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From Joel Osteen -
"Thank you for being a part of our family! God is using your prayers and faithful support to reach millions of people all around the world with the saving message of Jesus!
You've blessed us in so many ways by partnering with us as together we share the powerful, positive, and encouraging message from God's Word. Because of you we accomplished so much in 2005:
• Over 100,000 people made public decisions for the Lord during 25 special events in 16 cities
• Nearly two tons of food were distributed to local food banks
• $1.8 million was contributed to those most affected by Hurricane Katrina and Rita "
Philippians 4:17
Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
We can give a testimony of our personal experiences with the Lord and scripture.
We can't develop a DOCTRINE though, based on our personal experiences. Although our personal testimony should reflect what the Bible says.
Amen! and Amen!
I just recently read a testimony in which someone was giving the Holy Spirit credit for giving them information from a person who had died. This person was testifying esperience, but calling their experience the work of the Holy Spirit. The whole time I was reading I was thinking ... oh the Bible does speak of this phenomenon of which you speak, but it is not the work of the Holy Spirit, but of which the Bible calls "familiar spirits" and it is not to be desired!!!! I cant build doctrine about the Holy Spirit based on this person's experience. The Bible does not say that the Holy Spirit will give you ESP type knowledge or a word from your dead aunt sarah!!!!
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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
sister WhiteEagle writes [QUOTE]Ones who are teachers need to be careful I agree they shouldn't be trying to teach the scriptures according to their own personal experience.
dear sister WhiteEagle, if a teacher is not allowed to teach according to his/her own experience, according to whose experience should he or she teach then?
Yours is a foolish statement. We are ALL teaching only that which we, with our peculiar human variation and family background and human talents and with the help of the wise Holy Spirit, have been able to teach so far.
There is not a saved human being alive who is teaching by someone else's experience.
Rather, we are all teaching as we have heard and seen, and to the extent that we have been listening to the indwelling Holy Spirit and have been reading the Word of God to be washed and to pray to Him Who answers prayers for those who love Him.
To repeat what you wrote, sister WhiteEagle quote:
Ones who are teachers need to be careful, I agree they shouldn't be trying to teach the scriptures according to their own personal experience.
Perhaps they should teach it according to...whom?
BORN AGAIN in the USA
Read my original post again. and the one I just wrote to Linda.
We can give a testimony of our personal experiences with the Lord and scripture.
We can't develop a DOCTRINE though, based on our personal experiences. Although our personal testimony should reflect what the Bible says.
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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
we can testify our personal experience; we teach the word. Two very different things!
quote:
Here is what I originally wrote above: Ones who are teachers need to be careful I agree they shouldn't be trying to teach the scriptures according to their own personal experience.
They can offer their testimony of how God is working in their life.
Some things you see or I see in scripture has been imparted to us through the Holy Spirit for our edification and growth. It may not be totally applicable for another person, in the same way as that other person is an individual.
I just said the same thing.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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we can testify our personal experience; we teach the word. Two very different things!
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BORN AGAIN
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sister WhiteEagle writes quote:
Ones who are teachers need to be careful I agree they shouldn't be trying to teach the scriptures according to their own personal experience.
dear sister WhiteEagle, if a teacher is not allowed to teach according to his/her own experience, according to whose experience should he or she teach then?
Yours is a foolish statement. We are ALL teaching only that which we, with our peculiar human variation and family background and human talents and with the help of the wise Holy Spirit, have been able to teach so far.
There is not a saved human being alive who is teaching by someone else's experience.
Rather, we are all teaching as we have heard and seen, and to the extent that we have been listening to the indwelling Holy Spirit and have been reading the Word of God to be washed and to pray to Him Who answers prayers for those who love Him.
To repeat what you wrote, sister WhiteEagle[quote]Ones who are teachers need to be careful, I agree they shouldn't be trying to teach the scriptures according to their own personal experience.
Perhaps they should teach it according to...whom?
BORN AGAIN in the USA
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Inky
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I will keep an eye on him. So far everything I seen he has basically stayed to scripture. Today on TV he taught "WITH A SMILE" and quiet positively. That God says No to prayers sometimes. That God sometimes delays prayers. That he is glad that God has not always answered every prayer because he would of missed out on God's plan. So he basically isn't a one sided teacher that I can see of.
Most the message I get from him is remain positive no matter what the situration is.There is nothing wrong with having a Postive Attidude.
As far as I know he has not strayed estremly to far from Christians beliefs. I will try and find some position papers or request some to find out where he stands on the main issues of Christian Teachings.
That is the test right? His terminology is a little awkard but not dangerously so yet. Not as bad as Kenneth Copeland terminology.
Anyways I will have to investigate further. I will write him and find out what his is position is on the major issues of Christian Teachers so as to determine if he is a False Prophet.
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SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Ones who are teachers need to be careful I agree they shouldn't be trying to teach the scriptures according to their own personal experience.
They can offer their testimony of how God is working in their life.
Some things you see or I see in scripture has been imparted to us through the Holy Spirit for our edification and growth. It may not be totally applicable for another person, in the same way as that other person is an individual.
Remember in Acts on the Day of Pentacost? All the people heard the Gospel in their own language.
Perhaps we aren't of a different language but when the WORD of God goes forth each person will hear in It; different parts that they can understand for themselves.
We are to give the word of our testimony. But we are not to preach that testimony as the Word of God.
"they overcome him (satan) by the blood of the Lamb, and the word of their testimony, and loved not their lives unto death." Rev 12:11
Example:
My husband testifies he got saved through "fear of the reality of Hell." Love wasn't how the Holy Spirit drew him. Love had been corrupted to my husband through his childhood abuse. Love meant beatings, and getting yelled at for his own good. The Holy Spirit has since washed away the corruption of tainted false love for him, and He knows about real Love through Christ.
For me, a fear of hell didn't draw me back to God, since I felt I already was livng in Hell on earth. It seemed to me, that all God had to offer me was hell and punishment. I learned that from my parents. I knew I had never experienced real love ever, and had been taught that love was weak and not important. Duty and submission to authority was all I ever knew about God. I got to the point with God about punishment an attitude of "Bring it on, God". See I thought I knew that God would never accept me, since my parents never accepted me unless I did exactly as their wanted.
God totally threw me a curve ball, when I did surrender to Him, as I did come to the end of myself. He gave me a taste of Love from Him that surprised me and gave me strength. It changed my life, sort of like the Grinch. Remember his heart was too small, and then He saw Love and his heart began 10 times greater.
That was me, I was a Grinch.
AWESOME Post and Testimony WhiteEagle! ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif) Thanks for sharing this! I totally agree with what you said about folks hearing God differently. It's like Linda has said so many times... we're all at different places and what God may have for one of us will be very different then what he has for another who may be in a very different place. (Sheesh... This is why I rely on others words LOL!!!! I think you get what I mean? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) )
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Awesome testimony White Eagle! Thank you for sharing it.
I totally agree with you. God meets us at our place and brings us to HIS place. His timing is always perfect as well. In my own life, I have noted that there were times when I could not receive something someone else had received and that was because it was not my time. God had other things to work out in me... other issues he was dealing with or things I had to gain understanding of before I could receive somethings. But one thing is for sure God will never contradict HIs word. The spirit will never speak contrary to the written word.
Your husband had a piece of the truth of God that you could not receive in a sense, but your husband's piece was every bit as true to the written word as was the piece that you did receive. Behold both the severity and the goodness of God!
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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
While I may feel that I know through the scriptures the answers to these questions, I wont post them here as I dont want to take away from this statement.
This is so beautiful and I do understand what you are saying.
There are loads of things that I can see in scripture, but to articulate them and not blaspheme is quite another story!
There are things I think I get, but am not sure enough to print them for fear I mislead someone. There are things I through out from time to time a carefully say... this is not doctrine, but my thoughts and I dont know how right they be at this point.
We are human and there is no crime in our lack of understanding for understanding comes by HIS spirit and in HIS perfect time. There is not even crime in having error in understanding because God is developing your understanding and will correct our errors as we go; and there surely is no crime in not being able to rightly articulate the huge things of God that are beyond our human words.
But may I say to you sister, that the difference between you and the WOF teachers is that you do not either hold yourself up as understanding it and then with self proclaimed authority proceed to teach things that cannot be substantiated in the scripture.
Sadly, there are many who do, and Copeland is but one.
Ones who are teachers need to be careful I agree they shouldn't be trying to teach the scriptures according to their own personal experience.
They can offer their testimony of how God is working in their life.
Some things you see or I see in scripture has been imparted to us through the Holy Spirit for our edification and growth. It may not be totally applicable for another person, in the same way as that other person is an individual.
Remember in Acts on the Day of Pentacost? All the people heard the Gospel in their own language.
Perhaps we aren't of a different language but when the WORD of God goes forth each person will hear in It; different parts that they can understand for themselves.
We are to give the word of our testimony. But we are not to preach that testimony as the Word of God.
"they overcome him (satan) by the blood of the Lamb, and the word of their testimony, and loved not their lives unto death." Rev 12:11
Example:
My husband testifies he got saved through "fear of the reality of Hell." Love wasn't how the Holy Spirit drew him. Love had been corrupted to my husband through his childhood abuse. Love meant beatings, and getting yelled at for his own good. The Holy Spirit has since washed away the corruption of tainted false love for him, and He knows about real Love through Christ.
For me, a fear of hell didn't draw me back to God, since I felt I already was livng in Hell on earth. It seemed to me, that all God had to offer me was hell and punishment. I learned that from my parents. I knew I had never experienced real love ever, and had been taught that love was weak and not important. Duty and submission to authority was all I ever knew about God. I got to the point with God about punishment an attitude of "Bring it on, God". See I thought I knew that God would never accept me, since my parents never accepted me unless I did exactly as their wanted.
God totally threw me a curve ball, when I did surrender to Him, as I did come to the end of myself. He gave me a taste of Love from Him that surprised me and gave me strength. It changed my life, sort of like the Grinch. Remember his heart was too small, and then He saw Love and his heart began 10 times greater.
That was me, I was a Grinch.
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SoftTouch
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AMEN Joyce ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Nothing is more important or effective then Prayer!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Pleasemaranatha
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Just because many don't post on these subjects doesn't mean they aren't interceeding in prayer on their knees for God's will to be done. No matter which point of view they have God can lead them into all truth. ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
If we do anything as unto the Lord we have to trust HIM and not ourselves. I believe prayer is more important than anything! ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
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My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning. Psalms 130 verse 6
Joyce
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SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
You know what
MOST PEOPLE DON'T CARE
They DON'T want or care about TRUTH
They have their OWN image and concept of God, and search out teachers that support or promote how they believe.
Yes Bro, unfortunately this is true of Many... but there Are those who want to know the truth. They may Never post a reply here, but they may be reading. It is for these few that we must keep sounding the shofar that the wolf is in our midst.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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wparr
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You know what
MOST PEOPLE DON'T CARE
They DON'T want or care about TRUTH
They have their OWN image and concept of God, and search out teachers that support or promote how they believe.
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SoftTouch
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And Again I say AMEN!!! Great Post Bro!
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, and the rest of the Preacher's of the "User Friendly Gospel" are leading the way to the Great Apostasy
A Falling Away From The Faith... This is one of the biggest signs of the times ... Unbeknownst to many.
Everyone seems to know about: the Wars and Rumors of Wars, the Earthquakes, the Famines, Pestilence etc. But how many are aware that Religious Deception is forewarned even more often then these!
The Bible's Prophets and Yeshua Himself warned us of this great spiritual delusion that would occur just prior to Christ's return. Warnings of false prophets who could perform great signs and wonders that would be so convincing that "if possible, they shall deceive the very elect" (Matthew 24:24 /Mark 13:22)
This is Exactly why I spend so much time researching these things and trying to Expose them.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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becauseHElives
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Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, and the rest of the Preacher's of the "User Friendly Gospel" are leading the way to the Great Apostasy
A Falling Away From The Faith... This is one of the biggest signs of the times ... Unbeknownst to many.
Everyone seems to know about: the Wars and Rumors of Wars, the Earthquakes, the Famines, Pestilence etc. But how many are aware that Religious Deception is forewarned even more often then these!
The Bible's Prophets and Yeshua Himself warned us of this great spiritual delusion that would occur just prior to Christ's return. Warnings of false prophets who could perform great signs and wonders that would be so convincing that "if possible, they shall deceive the very elect" (Matthew 24:24 /Mark 13:22)
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first..." 2Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV)
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;" 1 Timothy 4:1-2 (KJV)
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (KJV)
What Last Days Revival?
Many seem to assume that a final great Revival must occur in these last days.
... as if the Lord cannot return until the world is 'Overtaken with Revival.'
Where exactly is that found in Scripture?
What we instead find is:
..."When the Son of Man returns will He find faith left on the earth" ... Luke 18:8
....It will be like the "Days of Noah" ... Matthew 24:37-39
..."But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived." 2Timothy 3:13
The Church has often been so obsessed with this notion of Worldwide Revival that it seems this glorified concept has almost become a distraction in and of itself. Waiting for this great awakening has even become - to some - an excuse 'to not do more today' as they instead wait for the "next outpouring" ... "the next touch from heaven" ... and talk about it over and over.
And on the flip side of this, many are no longer "waiting for Revival" as they are proudly proclaiming "IT" has arrived. So for that group it seems what they really waited for was some physical evidence (manifestations) to stimulate, entice and excite them ... something more tangible to place their faith in.
It comes as a shock to most Christians to discover that the word "revival" is not found in the entire King James Bible. "Revived" appears six times, but it always refers to the physical revival of an individual. "Revive" occurs eight times, mostly referring to Israel. Never is there even a hint in the entire Bible of a "spiritual revival" as Christians think of it today. Not Once!
"Revival" sounds so biblical, so spiritual, and is the most sought after goal among Christians in our time. Everyone remembers the great revivals in history: under Wesley, Whitefield, Edwards, Finney, Moody, and others. Surely it must be right to desire another such "visitation of the Holy Spirit." Isn't that every godly pastor's hope for his church, for our country, and for the world? And it isn't in the Bible? Impossible!
... If Christ is in us and with us, as he surely is, and we are being "filled with the Spirit" (Ephesians 5:18) as Paul indicates may be a continual experience (not something special), then we ought to be supremely happy, victorious, and fruitful. That being the case, what is this "outpouring of the Holy Spirit"? And if it takes a special "outpouring," then could we not blame God for withholding it? And if it only comes through prayer and fasting, then we are to blame for souls going to hell and Christians living in sin. The Bible advocates prayer and fasting for special needs (Daniel 9:3; Matthew 17:21; 1 Corinthians 7:5) but never to bring about a "fresh outpouring" of revival with special manifestations.
... Could it be possible that looking for a special annointing or outpouring or revival could prevent us from living in the fullness of what God has already given us, and could even provide us with an excuse for failure to do so? (Dave Hunt, Occult Invasion - pg's 526-527)
Now, many will take issue with what I am saying and say you give a "hopeless outlook" ...
Some might think "If we can't expect some glorious world wide revival - then what is the use of trying!" ... On the contrary ... Christians - true Christians should be more Alert - Awake - and Sober than ever before!
"Go into all the world and preach the gospel"
Teaching all nations - Make Disciples! Matthew 28:19 / Mark 16:15
"...Earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 3
"Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth." Colossians 3:2 (KJV)
No, I do not believe "True Biblical Christianity" will ever become the POPULAR thing .. as nice as that would be ... it simply does not line up with Scripture. But this should not stop us from trying our best to seize every opportunity - everyday - to spread the GOOD NEWS! It is time we look at the importance of each and every individual we share the Lord with and stop being obsessed with numbers and popularity!
This is actually an EXCITING time to many of us.
Because regardless of how sad the condition of the world may seem .... Jesus told us;
"...when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors." Matthew 24:33
"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." Luke 21:28
Finally, it seems the "Great Revival Concept" seems to shift responsibility from OUR OBEDIENCE to God and His Word - to instead being subject to WAITING on Him to "Pour out His Spirit" when in fact He already has!
Now what are you going to do with it?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Miguel
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Member # 47
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posted
I believed that even do we know that we are not perfect and that sanctification comes by the Word of God we should look for sermons like this in any so called assembly.
They will bring a message of:
1. The hope of the Lord Christ Jesus
2. The sanctification of the Lord Christ Jesus
3. The Justification of the Lord Jesus Christ
4. Fornication
5. Adultery
6. Idolatry
7. Covetness
8. Uncleanness
9. Lustfulness
10. Idolatry
11. Sorcery
12. Hatreds
13. Fightings
14. Jealousies
15. Angers
16. Rivalries
17. Divisions
18. Heresies
19. Envyings
20. Murders
21. Drunkennesses
22. Revelings
23. Hell
24. Damnation
If you don’t hear this kind of sermons from the pastor which is responsible to eat bread all week to bring what God have show him in the scriptures during that time of isolation, I suggest unto thee to begin to cry unto God with all thine heart.
The main purpose of the gathering of the saint is so that the Word of God may reveal sin and that satisfaction in the hearts of man may be established by the the Word Of God Alone.
Take care, and may the Lord guide His people.
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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SoftTouch
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posted
And I'll add my AMEN your last two posts Sister Linda (to WhiteEagle and Jim)!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
Jim: I appreciate your response. I think that your answer is a much better reflection of the human compassion that is truly in your heart than your first post and so I am glad you posted it.
While I understand your point and I know that there are many who would agree with you, we both know that I see a different perspective. I dont either wish to argue and so I wont personally address any of your specific points where we disagree, I will just thank you for explaining your self more clearly.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
God Bless you White Eagle for this humbling word:
quote:
And guess what, I do NOT understand the Atonement.
I can't as a human being, understand what suffering it meant to Christ to do what He did.
Never will until I see Him face to face, and even then I hope Christ will have mercy on me.
I accept the atonement with great gratitude and by Faith in Christ my Hero, MY King and My Savior as the Mighty Warrior. He is called the Mighty Warrior and not for nothing. Think about it.
If WOF is attempting to impart some of the unknown grandeur of what Christ accomplished for us, so that we don't take it for granted.
If... it were as easy as you make it sound, then why would Christ have asked the Father to let this Cup pass? Why did Christ have agony when He shouted "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
He somehow paid the full price of death for all men, so that He gained the keys of hell and death and He is Worthy to set us free.
I don't understand it. I believe it and accept it.
God bless.
While I may feel that I know through the scriptures the answers to these questions, I wont post them here as I dont want to take away from this statement.
This is so beautiful and I do understand what you are saying.
There are loads of things that I can see in scripture, but to articulate them and not blaspheme is quite another story!
There are things I think I get, but am not sure enough to print them for fear I mislead someone. There are things I through out from time to time a carefully say... this is not doctrine, but my thoughts and I dont know how right they be at this point.
We are human and there is no crime in our lack of understanding for understanding comes by HIS spirit and in HIS perfect time. There is not even crime in having error in understanding because God is developing your understanding and will correct our errors as we go; and there surely is no crime in not being able to rightly articulate the huge things of God that are beyond our human words.
But may I say to you sister, that the difference between you and the WOF teachers is that you do not either hold yourself up as understanding it and then with self proclaimed authority proceed to teach things that cannot be substantiated in the scripture.
Sadly, there are many who do, and Copeland is but one.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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ToBeContinued
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quote:
Come on JIM! Do you really believe this???? Is it really about numbers? Is the success of a ministry wrought in the number of people that sign committment cards on Sunday??? Sit in a church pew? Is it even based on the number of
dollars in the plate at the end of the day or the number of good works done in the community?
Is it really your belief that the church of Jesus Christ is measured in these things????
Of course I do notthink that way however, statistically, these organizations are giving so much more than the rest of the organizations.
Is that because of size? Yes, I suppose it is - And I can't help but believe that God is using that for good - Certainly there ar flaws in the way things are taught at times - But that does not negate the fact that these have been entrusted with massive wealth which in turn is, in some cases, being used to head up giant mission field organizations.
Thats all I am saying - If we took away the mega church givers such as TBN, JO, Meyers, we would take away over 70% of the $$$ donated to world wide hunger, rebuilds, disaster recovery, etc.
So while I agree with much of what is said, I cannot help but think that God is using their wealth to further his cause - If not as much here, at least where remebering the poor are concerned in other parts of the world.
And to that end, I cannot help but believe that God would not and does not condone others trying the tear down the ministry of say, Joel Osteen or Joyce Meyers, who have given mega millions over the past 10 years.
Thats all I am trying to say - I do not want to argue or cause division over it, I simply believe that thier wealth is indeed being used of God.
I hope that made sense : )
I have spent far too much time in the past defending things when I believe what is truly important is that we do what we have been commissioned to do, and being tasked to do.
God says keep the commandments - The great commission is to tell others of Jesus Christ - So that no one is left behind, and we are to Love the Lord with all that we are - This is the greatest commandment - And we are to love each other, and give to the poor.
I think that the love of God is indeed demonstrated to the poor and devastated souls around the world when a group from Osteens church show up and stay for months to help rebuild, provide funds for the rebuild, bring in Gods promises of food shelter and clothing, all the while giving glory to God - I think that is part of the necessary fulfillment of the thigns we are to do.
If we were successful in bringing them down, would we not also be successful in destroying those outreaches? And what would God say if we were able to stop these missions?
I would rather err on the side of doing what God has asked us as mortals to do while we are here, than not - And we have been asked to do what these wealthy organizations are doing, and there has to be a reason why they make up such a large portion of the world wide $$$ -
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
They have to print disclaimers because people will do exactly what you do. I might print an article on my website that is right on target about a particular subject, but it might be written by someone who is for example a preterist and not on target in all that he currently believes.
So I have to print a disclaimer even though I may agree with every thing in this particular article, because if I dont someone who is more intrested in trying to discredit a source than hearing the truth will ignore the truth in this article and now try to discredit me by saying that I believe what the preterists believe, and thus you cannot trust anything you see on my site.
This is why disclaimers must be printed. Because when people cannot dispute a position scripturally or cannot defend their own positions scripturally they seek to discredit the one they disagree with as a credible source and that often means they will look for something to discredit someone whose article you have used, without any regard to the truth of this particular article.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
http://www.worldviewweekend.com/secure/cwnetwork/article.php?&ArticleID=505
Again -
Disclaimer: Worldview Weekend, Christian Worldview Network and its columnists do not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the feedback button.
~Why do all of these sites have to print disclaimers if they don't believe it is the Gospel Truth? They are representing Jesus.There are no disclaimers in the Bible. Such irresponsible and deceitful writing is grieving the Holy Spirit and an insult to the deity.
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/word-faith2.html
Be Careful Folks - Read carefully this disclaimer re the deception the the church website.
DISCLAIMER:
Deception In The Church web site is a ministry of the Apologetics Coordination Team (ACT).
The articles, booklets and media by Sandy Simpson, Webmaster of the Deception In The Church web site, do not necessarily reflect the views of any mission or church organization that Mr. Simpson is affiliated with.
The other articles on these pages are from a wide variety of denominations and authors. I DO NOT AGREE WITH EVERY STATEMENT MADE IN THEM There may be someone that you admire that you think has been put down or something mentioned in these articles that you very much disagree with. You have a few options ----
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WhiteEagle
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Member # 3728
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posted
I'll add this to my above in reference to understanding the Atonement as being central.
Yes it is central to the gospel that Christ is the Only Sacrifice acceptable to God for sin. There is no other way to God, except through Christ.
Yet we have many Christians who do not believe in God the Creator and of Christ the Creator. Yet say they believe in the Resurrection of Christ.
Only if God is the Creator could He have resurrected Christ.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
Caretaker I do not believe that WOF actually teaches that **** .
And guess what, I do NOT understand the Atonement.
I can't as a human being, understand what suffering it meant to Christ to do what He did.
Never will until I see Him face to face, and even then I hope Christ will have mercy on me.
I accept the atonement with great gratitude and by Faith in Christ my Hero, MY King and My Savior as the Mighty Warrior. He is called the Mighty Warrior and not for nothing. Think about it.
If WOF is attempting to impart some of the unknown grandeur of what Christ accomplished for us, so that we don't take it for granted.
If... it were as easy as you make it sound, then why would Christ have asked the Father to let this Cup pass? Why did Christ have agony when He shouted "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
He somehow paid the full price of death for all men, so that He gained the keys of hell and death and He is Worthy to set us free.
I don't understand it. I believe it and accept it.
God bless.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
White Eagle:
See that is the Key here. The Gospel.
You are adding things to the basic Gospel. The Gospel is simple: Jesus Christ Son fo God, born of a virgin, died on the cross for the sins of all the world, and rose the 3rd day by the Power of God, the first born of the the Resurection and is our Savior and Way to God for Salvation through repentance of sins and acceptance of His atonement and Faith in Jesus for our Salvation.
That's It! That is the Gospel!
WOF preaches that.
You don't agree with their application of how to walk with God after Salvation, and that's the conflict. It's not about preaching another Gospel.
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Caretaker:
The problem is that the WOF heretics do not preach the Gospel, but preach another gospel and another Christ, in their twisting and wresting of scriptures, and those who follow these false prophets are deceived.
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http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/word-faith2.html
Did Jesus Die Spiritually, His Spirit Become Re-Created, And He Become Born Again?
Neil Rivalland
The cross of Christ and the Atonement are at the heart of the Christian faith. Our understanding of the doctrine of the Atonement affects our understanding of all other fundamental Christian doctrine - everything from the attributes of God, to the person of Christ, to the doctrine of salvation, and to our understanding of sanctification. It cannot be put more clearly than what has already been written by the New Testament writers of Christ's atoning work found in the Scriptures (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Tit. 3:4-7; Eph. 1:7, Col. 1:14). To formulate doctrine beyond what the Scriptures declare is the imagination of man's conceit, inventive theory and vain speculation.
The New Testament atonement, the deity, and the sinlessness of Jesus Christ are the most attacked doctrines by the cults and the false religions. In this article elaborated upon will be the New Testament atonement and Christ's sinlessness in defense against the unscriptural teachings of the word of faith/ positive confession movement.
Our salvation by which we have been redeemed to God through Christ hinges about the atonement; the propitiatory sacrifice of His body which was broken so His blood could be shed. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; (Eph 1:7).No more was required for our salvation than redemption through his blood (1 Pet. 1:18, 19). To say Christ died spiritually, took on the nature of Satan, was dragged to hell to be tormented of Satan, became re-created in spirit, and born again as the word of faith/ positive confession has taught is the fabrication of the imagination, as nowhere is it to be found that the Holy Bible supports such a theories. Sadly, the teaching that Christ died spiritually is one of the many doctrines they have plagiarized from works of E.W. Kenyon of who's works I will discuss in this article.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
You could watch/listen to JWs and Mormons and say they are Bible based.
But they take Scripture OUT OF CONTEXT (as do many false teachers)
The promote a different Gospel (as does the prosperity people)
See that is the Key here. The Gospel.
You are adding things to the basic Gospel. The Gospel is simple: Jesus Christ Son fo God, born of a virgin, died on the cross for the sins of all the world, and rose the 3rd day by the Power of God, the first born of the the Resurection and is our Savior and Way to God for Salvation through repentance of sins and acceptance of His atonement and Faith in Jesus for our Salvation.
That's It! That is the Gospel!
WOF preaches that.
You don't agree with their application of how to walk with God after Salvation, and that's the conflict. It's not about preaching another Gospel.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
HisGrace:
This is something that a handful on this Board would like to keep hidden from us. Please read for yourselves and don't be drawn in by the nay-sayers, folks. Decide for yourselves.
Amazing World Missions - Benny Hinn
Amazing World Missions II - Joyce Meyer:
Under 'Site Search' on the left-hand side of the home page click on 'World Missions'
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Caretaker:
Interesting how you can defend Benny Hinn, the slickest of the snake=oil salesmen in the House of the Lord.
When one sends a dollar to Feed the Children, then one can be "partnered" into wherever Feed the Children is ministering. Hinn sends a few dollars to legitimate missions and then he can promote himself as being partnered-in. More like a piggy-backed-in, while continuing to slop-down at the immense hog-trough of the gulliable's dollars.
Benny Hinn is a proven liar, a deceiver, a false prophet, and a self promoter of the worst kind. He has no accountability and will not allow any accountability organization to oversee his ministry, as the legitimate ministries do.
Joyce Meyers is WOF/Positive Confession, with a smooth presentation and an unaccountable grandiose lifestyle of the rich and famous.
I see many similarities in these photos but it has serious eternal ramifications for those led astray by these WOF merchants of deception:
http://www.jhm.org/current/cufi3852.jpg
The originals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Stooges3.jpg
__________________
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
¶ Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write 2 I know thy works, and thy labour, ......4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee,
12 ¶ And to the angel of the church in Pergamos......13 I know thy works,......... 14 But I have a few things against thee,
18 ¶ And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; ........19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee,
1 ¶ And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write.....I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
4 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891
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posted
Good works don't make a Christian
Mormons have lots of missionaries in the world.
Benny Hinn is a PROVEN - UNDISPUTEABLE False Prophet
What does God's Word say about false prophets?
If his prophecy is NOT of God, neither is the other stuff
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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Caretaker
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posted
His Grtace:
That is the problem with this whole discussion; I have watched Copeland, Meyer, Hagee and others - all of their sermons and material are totally Bible-based.
Caretaker:
And so was the teachings and ministry of David Koresh and the Branch Davidians. Bible based upon scriptures which they twist and pervert to substantiate heresy.
HisGrace:
If some of you people say you have watched their programmes and read their books, how come you are always cutting and pasting second-hand material from other sites?
Caretaker:
Because it declares the truth about these false prophets which you so blindly continue to defend.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891
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posted
You could watch/listen to JWs and Mormons and say they are Bible based.
But they take Scripture OUT OF CONTEXT (as do many false teachers)
The promote a different Gospel (as does the prosperity people)
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
Bible-Based and Biblically Solid/Sound Doctrine are Two Completely Different Things!
What does it matter if I post an article that says Exactly what I believe or if I put it in my own words? I use articles because I'm not gifted in putting these things together. What matters is that whats said in the article(s) is the Truth.
You've had several people here testify that they have Heard, Seen, and Read for themselves the False Teachings of these teachers you defend; and you've been given gobs of Scripture over the past two or more years to try to show you the Errors/Falsehoods those teachers teach. The Bible says it only takes the testimony of two witnesses to settle a matter... you've had far more then two here with Scripture as our backing. We can do no more...
I only pray that anyone reading this thread will have the eyes to see and the ears to hear the Truth about these False Teachers/Prophets.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
Anyone who really wishes to know the truth can check it out themselves. Read their books for goodness sakes. Their words are right there for all to see. Contrary to popular opinion around here, we're not making this stuff up.
If one does not have enough discernment to catch unsound doctrine when listening to a sermon or reading a book, that's another issue all together.
That is the problem with this whole discussion; I have watched Copeland, Meyer, Hagee and others - all of their sermons and material are totally Bible-based.
If some of you people say you have watched their programmes and read their books, how come you are always cutting and pasting second-hand material from other sites?
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
~Like Rick Warren, I probably don't know anymore about Joel Osteen than you do, so I must be very cautious not to tear down God's anointed ones. How can we know for sure from all of these second-hand sites, if indeed they are telling the truth?
You might try reading their books and comparing what they teach with what the Bible Says...
Exactly SoftTouch.
I have seen, heard, and read Osteen, Hagee, Meyer, and Warren, to name a few. I am not getting my information second-hand from another person, website, or article.
Anyone who really wishes to know the truth can check it out themselves. Read their books for goodness sakes. Their words are right there for all to see. Contrary to popular opinion around here, we're not making this stuff up.
If one does not have enough discernment to catch unsound doctrine when listening to a sermon or reading a book, that's another issue all together.
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SoftTouch
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
~Like Rick Warren, I probably don't know anymore about Joel Osteen than you do, so I must be very cautious not to tear down God's anointed ones. How can we know for sure from all of these second-hand sites, if indeed they are telling the truth?
You might try reading their books and comparing what they teach with what the Bible Says...
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
quote:
If it wasn't for ministries like these, it wouldn't happen.
Come on JIM! Do you really believe this???? Is it really about numbers? Is the success of a ministry wrought in the number of people that sign committment cards on Sunday??? Sit in a church pew? Is it even based on the number of
dollars in the plate at the end of the day or the number of good works done in the community?
Is it really your belief that the church of Jesus Christ is measured in these things????
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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redkermit
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Member # 4059
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posted
I'm not taking sides here, as I have not researched Joel Osteen myself, but I think we do have to remember that not everyone who claims to be a Christian is all that they appear to be. That's why it's so important to take their preaching and compare it to the Word. I have many evangelists within my denomination that I admire greatly, but that doesn't stop me from taking what they preach back to the Word to make sure everything lines up. There are wolves in sheep's clothing that are deceiving even the elect, if that were possible (Matthew 24:24)...
Matthew 7:21-23
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I think it was in a different thread where it was mentioned, and I'd have to agree. Anyone can put anything they want on their web site, regarding a SOF, or they acts they do, but we still need to examine the actual preaching and teaching.
I was checking out Osteen's web site earlier this morning, and I believe you can view/listen to his broadcasts, so I suppose it would be easy enough to check him out if desired...
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I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)
1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org
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HisGrace
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Originally posted by hardcore:
There is no defense for Osteen's false teaching, so you will get no response other than cut and pastes from his website; which as you said, don't have anything to do with the discussion.
'Exposing' is cut and paste paradise, so I might as well join in. If the posts involve defamation of character, defence of such persons has everything to do with the discussions.
Joel Osteen Ministries -
"WE BELIEVE…the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine.
WE BELIEVE…in one God who exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came to this earth as Savior of the world.
WE BELIEVE…Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again. We believe that eternal salvation is found only by placing our faith in Jesus Christ and what he did for us on the cross.
WE BELIEVE…water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ and an outward testimony to our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
WE BELIEVE…in the regular taking of Communion as an act of remembering what the Lord Jesus did for us on the cross.
WE BELIEVE…every believer should be in a growing relationship with Jesus by obeying God’s Word, yielding to the Holy Spirit and by being conformed to the image of Christ.
WE BELIEVE…as children of God, we are overcomers and more than conquerors and God intends for each of us to experience the abundant life He has in store for us."
~Like Rick Warren, I probably don't know anymore about Joel Osteen than you do, so I must be very cautious not to tear down God's anointed ones. How can we know for sure from all of these second-hand sites, if indeed they are telling the truth?
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SoftTouch
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Yes, these things are necessary and it is good that they do them... but... without Sound Doctrine to back it up, who is really saved? Without preaching the problem of Sin and Repentance, how can there Be Salvation? If you don't know you need to repent, how can you be forgiven? If you're not forgiven, then you're not saved! See the Problem?
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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ToBeContinued
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• Over 100,000 people made public decisions for the Lord during 25 special events in 16 cities
• Nearly two tons of food were distributed to local food banks
• $1.8 million was contributed to those most affected by Hurricane Katrina and Rita
• We've ministered to those who have responded to our outreaches through more than 511,000 phone calls and over 117,000 prayer requests
Note that the above quote was for a 1 year period, not a lifetime. This is every year. Good thing God is using the Catholic missionaries and groups like WOF (Joyce Meyers) and Joel Osteen to get done what Jesus, the apostles, and Paul all taught was one of the single most important things to do. If it wasn't for ministries like these, it wouldn't happen.
Of course, as Christians, we have a duty to try to stop them, and to call them heretics!!
Proverbs 28:27
He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses.
A. AS COMMANDED BY JESUS...
1. In His sermon on the mount - Mt 5:42
2. In His sermon on the plain - Lk 6:34-36
3. In His words to one who invited Him into his home - Lk 14:12-14
-- Jesus taught we should be willing to help the poor
B. AS CHARGED BY HIS APOSTLES AND PROPHETS...
1. Paul, in several of his epistles - Ro 12:13; 1 Ti 6:17-19
2. The writer of the epistle to the Hebrews - He 13:16
3. James, in describing pure and undefiled religion before God
- Ja 1:27
4. John, in describing the love of God, exemplified by Jesus - 1 Jn 3:16-19
5. For needy Christians, churches were charged how to provide aid
a. With a weekly collection, as one prospers - 1 Co 16:1-2
b. With thoughtful purpose, and a cheerful heart - 2 Co 9:1,7
6. Yet the local church most not be burdened (for its mission is spiritual, not social)...
a. Individuals are to fulfill their familial duties - 1 Ti 5:16
b. Individuals have their duty to be a 'good Samaritan' - cf. Lk 10:29-37
-- As we have opportunity, we have the duty to do good unto all men - Ga 6:10
1. Sometimes it is due to sinful actions on the part of the individual
a. Laziness - Pro 6:6-11
b. Refusing to heed correction - Pro 13:18
c. Pleasure seeking - Pro 21:17
d. Drunkenness, gluttony - Pro 23:21
2. Other times it is due to sinful actions of other men
a. Usury and extortion - Pro 28:8
b. Greed - Isa 3:14-15
c. Unfair labor practices - Jer 22:13
d. Oppression - Amo 4:1
e. Persecution - 2 Co 8:1-2; He 10:32-34
3. It can also be due to natural disasters
a. Plague, economic depression, war
b. Hurricane, earthquake, tsunami
4. It may be due to God's chastisement
a. As was the case in Haggai's day - Hag 1:5-11
b. Again in the days of Malachi - Mal 3:8-12
5. It can be due to voluntary choice
a. As in the case of Jesus - Lk 9:57-58
b. As in the case of His apostles - Mk 10:28; 2 Co 6:10
-- One cannot assume that poverty is due to laziness or wickedness
[Poverty has many causes, and both Moses and Jesus taught the poor would be with us (Deu 15:11; Mt 26:11). God hears the cries of the poor (Psa 69:33), and it is interesting to note how He made provision for them in both the Old and New Testament...]
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