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» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Exposing False Teaching   » Should A Christian Celebrate Christmas? (Page 3)

 
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Author Topic: Should A Christian Celebrate Christmas?
oneyearandcounting
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Walt

Walt some like myself have said that we have taken the pagen parts out of Christmas, only to be told that it isn't enough.

What did you compare it to suger in the poison. That is what I have the problem with. It seems to me that if I say I am celebrating Christmas you and others are jumping up and down crying foul.

Heres the thing many times I have said I could be wrong in fact I have said I'm sorry to people on this board for pushing things to far. But right now you are doing the same thing you are pushing on something and don't know when to say ok enough. I can tell you this, this topic is not edifying to one person on this board.

We can probably go back and forth on this topic for awhile. The question would become would anyone change their mind. I say no.

As far as the wiccans poking fun at us guess what I don't care my God is bigger than their god.

I'm going to continue to praqy on this. Not that you see my way cause you won't in fact you can't. But I am going to pray that the Lord will continue to rain down his grace on me. Because believe it or not I do see your point. I just don't agree.

God bless you

greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

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oneyearandcounting
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Oh yeah I almost forgot.

I believe it was Drew who mentioned the angles praising the birth of the Lord. Lets see heavenly angels praise (which can mean sing) the birth of the Lord. But according to some we humans should not. Interesting. Mind you I don't believe we as Christians should get sucked into the whole holiday thing but as far as the birth of Christ I guess since the angles had no problem celebrating then I don't either. But what do I know I'm just one year and counting.(Actually its almost two now.)

God bless you all and Merry Christmas

greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

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oneyearandcounting
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Well I guess I'll join the party.

Here is a interesting couple of verses. Lets see how I do. Mind you I being the somewhat smart person I am know I can not change anyones mind. That is notmy intention. We now have the same topic being delt with on three seperate threads.

This very topic I have prayed on I really have. And well here is what I have, it isn't much but it will have to do. Now I know that the smart bible students like Walt and Drew will basicaly rip this apart but such is life.

Jhn 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.


Jhn 10:23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.


Jhn 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.


Jhn 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.


Jhn 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.


Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.


Jhn 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.


Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.


Jhn 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.


Ok Here is what I seecorrect me if I am wrong. The festival is Hanakuhh, man made. Jesus is there in the mist of all the people during the festival not hiding somewhere but partaking in it. Now it has been argued that because Christmas isn't mentioned in the Bible we shouldn't do it. But Hanakuhh isn't mentioned, yet the Jews celebrated it. And God in the flesh also took part in it.

The thing I find interesting about this is Christ didn't condemn the people for this. He took the time to teach you see this as you read down through the verses. In fact this is one of the key places in the Gospel that Christ said he was God. Right here during the winter festival. Oh by the way at this time Hanakhh was only a few hundred years old.

So with that said Iguess Ican leave that alone for a min.

Oh I saw someone say that since Groups like the Mormans celebrate the day we call Christmas that should be a clue thatitis wrong.

I see your Mormans and I trump it with Judism Islam And J. W. Lets see one denied thier Messiah. One thinks Christ was but a man and the other denys his divenity. So all that deny Christmas have put them selves in a grou with three false religions. Now I can't tell you you have to celebrate Christmas.

My brother in law goes to a church where they don't believe in wering makeup. The men dont wear shorts or t shirts. They say the sripture says it is wrong to do this. Now I can't tell him he is wrong even if I think it is because to him it is a sin. So if he thinks it is a sin to him it is sin.

I guess thats all i have for now.

God bless and Merry Christmas

greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

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TEXASGRANDMA
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so we should never sing a song that is not about Jesus. Goodness me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe we should all become monks. hmmmmmmmmmmm
betty
so how about:
Away in the manger
Silent Night
The First Noel
Joy to the World?
betty
walks off singing silent night

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
YOU CAN NOT DEFEND CHRISTMAS USING GOD'S WORD

BECAUSE IT IS MAN'S TRADITION

Amen Walt! That is it in a nutshell.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
This is just another spiritual battle about control of the world. And many of you grinches AND SCROOGES are playing right into the devil's hands.
Let see. Because some believe that Christmas is a hoiday that is steeped in pagan origin many have done the following:

Stopped hauling a tree into their homes and decorating it.

Satan's agenda or God's?

Stopped spending the hundreds of dollars each year on Christmas decorations and wrapping paper and tinsel and lights etc that were spent on these things which are mainly produced and imported from countries that persecute Christians.

Satan's agenda or God's?

Stopped wasting energy lighting the neighborhood with Christmas decorations.

Satan's agenda or God's ?

Stopped running up charge cards to buy Christmas presents.

Satan's agenda or God's?

Stopped filling their homes with the image of Santa Claus.

Satan's agenda or God's?

Stopped running around in holiday shopping madness with the world and looking like the world during the Christmas season.

Satan's agenda or God's?

Stopped telling the world that Jesus was born on December 25th.

Satan's agenda or God's?

Stopped teaching their children that Jesus was born on December 25th.

Satan's agenda or God's?

Stopped telling the world that the madness and commercialism of the Christmas shopping season, particularly in Western culture, is honoring God.

Satan's agenda or God's?

Started teaching our children that Jesus was probably born during God's appointed Feast of Tabernacles and why this feast is fulfilled in Christ and will be celebrated by the nations in the millennial reign.

Satan's agenda or God's?

Started being better stewards of their resources.

Satan's agenda or God's?

Started telling the world that God is not impressed or honored by the materialism and commercialism of Christmas.

Satan's agenda or God's?

Started checking themselves to make sure that Jesus is the focus of our attention in December and not the coming "Holidays"

Satan's agenda or God's?

Started having more to give and giving more to the preaching of Gospel.

Satan's agenda or God's

Started being more free and less stressed during this time of year.

Satan's agenda or God's?


I am sure that there are things that I have left off this list or not even thought of that others here could add, but it seems to me that if I were to think that these things amounted to playing into the devil's hand, then I might need to check my Bible to see if I know who God is and what HIS agenda might be.

Again, you want to embrace Christmas, go ahead, but I would caution your stating that those who don't are playing into the devil's hand. We should take care not to call good evil and evil good.

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oneyearandcounting
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And yet we still have grace.


God bless
greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

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Gramajo320
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Those of us who honor and celebrate Jesus's birth will have a very blessed and wonderful time doing so! Those of you who object cannot ruin it for us no matter how much you object or what you continue to say! Jesus' birth is the focus of our celebration!

--------------------
Gramajo320

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WhiteEagle
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BTW I was listening to the Laura Ingram's radio show this morning. She had an atheist leader of some sort on and was interviewing this person about Christmas.

The atheist said that Christians had stolen the "holiday" from the Pagan festival of Winter Solistice. The atheist stated she personally celebrated the winter solistice and admitted it was from the pagan celebration. (she's atheist???)

Laura asked her "who sent the sun? (Son) double meaning as the winter solistice celebrates the days getting longer.

The atheist kind of had no answer.

So it seems that the Pagans who worship the winter solistice are unhappy that Christianity "stole" the meaning away for so many years from them.

This is just another spiritual battle about control of the world. And many of you grinches AND SCROOGES are playing right into the devil's hands.

Praise God the meaning of this time of year became a time to honor the Lord Jesus Christ.

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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
"Theologically incorrect" ???

These songs paint a word picture of the night Jesus was born and angels singing and are inspired from Gospels' account of Christ's birth.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
angels singing????


10: And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11: For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
12: And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
13:And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
14: Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

Silent Night

Silent night, holy night,
Shepherds quake at the sight;
Glories stream from heaven afar,
Heavenly hosts sing Alleluia!
Christ the Savior is born,
Christ the Savior is born!

Silent night, holy night,
Son of God, love’s pure light;
Radiant beams from Thy holy face
With the dawn of redeeming grace,
Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth,
Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth.

Silent night, holy night
Wondrous star, lend thy light;
With the angels let us sing,
Alleluia to our King;

Keep the Letter of your Law.

I guess you believe you are saved by your theology?


Angels praising God can be singing.

Your brand or my brand or anyone's brand of theology will not get you saved.

Trust and Obey. Worship God in Spirit and in Truth.

Those who live by their law will die by their own law. I'll accept God's GRace. [youpi]

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TEXASGRANDMA
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Have yourself a merry little Christmas.
Let your heart be light,
From now on our troubles
Will be out of sight.
Have yourself a merry little Christmas,
Make the Yule-tide gay,
From now on our troubles
Will be miles away.
Here we are as in olden days,
Happy golden days of yore,
Faithful friends who are dear to us
Gather near to us once more.
Through the years
We all will be together
If the Fates allow,
Hang a shining star
On the highest bough,
And have yourself
A merry little Christmas now.

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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Caretaker
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Walt:
Drew you know what your problem is? (I have the same one by the way)

You don't want to swallow any lies along with the truth.

When you taste a lie mixed in with what you're being fed - you spit it all out.

Most people don't care that there is lies mixed in with their truth, they look at it like sugar, makes it taste sweeter that's all.

NEVER MIND that the lies they swallow are theological soul poison.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Caretaker:

Amen Walt!

As a certified wastewater operator, I have learned that the wastewater coming into the treatment plant is 99.99% pure water. It is only that .01% that contaminates and make it unpalatable.

In treating the wastewater one uses test kits to analyze PH, BODs, SS, etc., and is able to determine when the filters, screens, weirs, clorinators, ect. have done their job and the water is ready for effluent.

There is a great deal of contaminated faith and practice coming into the Believer as influent. The true and faithful use God's Word to determine what is truth and what is poison and to be rejected. The Bible is the Believers Test Kit.

What we see in the celebration of Christ's Mass, is a great deal of the poisons of paganism, legend, myth, secular hedonism, decorated with .01% Jesus and being consumed by a huge population.

I see the colored lights, the decorated fertility symbols, Norse mythology in a red suit and instead of Thor's goats we see reindeer. We see the perpetual helpless sacrificial child, and the elevation of Heaven's Queen, paraded and embraced for centuries, an excuse for revelry and hedonism.


It is a poison which is being marketed to the youngest and most vulnerable. Parents taught to lie and deceive, and children being indoctrinated in a red suited demon with powers of omniscience, judgement, who operates with great mystical powers and is eternal, and embraced from our pulpits and pews.

An insidious poison with a facade of sweetness, light, and facilitated by those who have been called upon to stand and resist.

The celebration of Christ's Mass has begun to turn my stomuch, and my soul is repelled as my heart beholds the sheer iniquity parading as an angel of light.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by oneyearandcounting:
Good thing we have grace.


God bless

greg

Yes indeed.

P.S. I find the scripture from Acts at the bottom of your post quite ironic given the subject matter at hand. [Wink]

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oneyearandcounting
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Good thing we have grace.


God bless

greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

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Caretaker
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"Theologically incorrect" ???

These songs paint a word picture of the night Jesus was born and angels singing and are inspired from Gospels' account of Christ's birth.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
angels singing????


10: And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11: For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
12: And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
13:And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
14: Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

Silent Night

Silent night, holy night,
Shepherds quake at the sight;
Glories stream from heaven afar,
Heavenly hosts sing Alleluia!
Christ the Savior is born,
Christ the Savior is born!

Silent night, holy night,
Son of God, love’s pure light;
Radiant beams from Thy holy face
With the dawn of redeeming grace,
Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth,
Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth.

Silent night, holy night
Wondrous star, lend thy light;
With the angels let us sing,
Alleluia to our King;

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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TEXASGRANDMA
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http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=2561

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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TEXASGRANDMA
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We sang Christmas carols in Church Sunday. They are in the HYMN book and should be.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:


If you read the words of many of the Christmas songs, such as Joy to the World, The first Noel, Silent Night, O Holy Night, these songs tell the gospel message.

Merry Christmas!

From the posted article:

15. Christmas Carols -- What do you suppose the reaction would be by a church's leaders if its pastor were to propose that the following hymns be introduced into the church to commemorate the birth of Christ? After all, the tunes are quite lovely.

Hymn #1 -- A hymn by a Unitarian minister (Unitarians reject the Trinity and full deity of Christ) that does not mention Jesus Christ and reflects the liberal social gospel theology of the 19th century.

Hymn #2 -- A hymn by an American Episcopal priest, the fourth verse of which teaches Roman Catholic superstition about Christ coming to be born in people during the Advent season.

Hymn #3 -- A song, the words by an Austrian Roman Catholic priest, the music by a Roman Catholic schoolteacher, containing the Roman Catholic superstition about halos emanating from holy people, with no gospel message.

Perhaps you would expect the church's leaders to be very upset. It might surprise you to learn that they were upset when they suspected that the pastor might somehow prevent them from singing them! You see, those three hymns were already in the church's hymnals! The pastor did not have to introduce them. The three theologically incorrect "Christmas carols" referred to above are It Came Upon the Midnight Clear, O Little Town of Bethlehem, and Silent Night. (See the sub-report for an evaluation of some of the most popular Xmas carols found in church hymnals today.)

"Theologically incorrect" ???

These songs paint a word picture of the night Jesus was born and angels singing and are inspired from Gospels' account of Christ's birth.

The thief on the cross was probably theologically incorrect too. After all he did end up on the wrong end of the law. But he was close to Jesus, and that's all he had to know for theology.

"This day you will be with me in Paradise."

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helpforhomeschoolers
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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:


If you read the words of many of the Christmas songs, such as Joy to the World, The first Noel, Silent Night, O Holy Night, these songs tell the gospel message.

Merry Christmas!

From the posted article:

15. Christmas Carols -- What do you suppose the reaction would be by a church's leaders if its pastor were to propose that the following hymns be introduced into the church to commemorate the birth of Christ? After all, the tunes are quite lovely.

Hymn #1 -- A hymn by a Unitarian minister (Unitarians reject the Trinity and full deity of Christ) that does not mention Jesus Christ and reflects the liberal social gospel theology of the 19th century.

Hymn #2 -- A hymn by an American Episcopal priest, the fourth verse of which teaches Roman Catholic superstition about Christ coming to be born in people during the Advent season.

Hymn #3 -- A song, the words by an Austrian Roman Catholic priest, the music by a Roman Catholic schoolteacher, containing the Roman Catholic superstition about halos emanating from holy people, with no gospel message.

Perhaps you would expect the church's leaders to be very upset. It might surprise you to learn that they were upset when they suspected that the pastor might somehow prevent them from singing them! You see, those three hymns were already in the church's hymnals! The pastor did not have to introduce them. The three theologically incorrect "Christmas carols" referred to above are It Came Upon the Midnight Clear, O Little Town of Bethlehem, and Silent Night. (See the sub-report for an evaluation of some of the most popular Xmas carols found in church hymnals today.)

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Caretaker
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H4HS:
DREW! have you been eating your GREEN beans? You are looking rather GREEEEEEEN! [roll on floor] [pound]

Drew:
Yikes I have da Grinchitis, it be most contagious.... [crying]

H4HS:
quote:There will be no Christ's Mass tree around the Throne of David, when our Lord of Lords begines the righteous reign of the Root of Jessie.

There will be no stockings hung in Jerusalem, and no elf to come and fill them.

There will be no Christ's Mass songs sung in the presence of the Lamb of God, but only praises of Glory.

Amen, so true, but there will be a feast in the Millennial reign! I believe this is prophesy future, no?

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.


Drew:
13: And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
14: Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

Is not it amazing that possibly the true feast of the Incarnation of God will be observed during the glorious reign of the KING..... [clap2]

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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helpforhomeschoolers
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DREW! have you been eating your GREEN beans? You are looking rather GREEEEEEEN! [roll on floor] [pound]

quote:
There will be no Christ's Mass tree around the Throne of David, when our Lord of Lords begines the righteous reign of the Root of Jessie.

There will be no stockings hung in Jerusalem, and no elf to come and fill them.

There will be no Christ's Mass songs sung in the presence of the Lamb of God, but only praises of Glory.

Amen, so true, but there will be a feast in the Millennial reign! I believe this is prophesy future, no?

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

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Caretaker
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I found this from a Catholic justifying Jesus born on Christmas:

* The Liturgical Year: Dom Gueranger

And firstly, with regard to our Saviour's Birth on Dec. 25, we have St. John Chrysostom telling us in his homliy for this Feast, that the Western Churches had, from the very commencement of Christianity, kept it on this day. He is not satisfied with merely mentioning this tradition; he undertakes to show it is very well founded, inasmuch as the Church of Rome had every means of knowing the true day of our Saviour's Birth, since the acts of the enrollment, taken in Judea by command of Augustus, were kept in the public archives of Rome.The Holy Doctor adduces a second arguement, which he founds upon the Gospel of St. Luke, and he reasons thus: we know from the sacred Scriptures that it must have been in the fast of the sevent month (Lev 23.the 7th month, Tsiri, corresponded to out Sept, beginning of October) that the Priest Zachary had the vision in the Temple; after which Elizabeth, his wife, conceived St. John the Baptist; hence it follows that that the Blessed Virgin Mary having, as the Evangelist St Luke relates, received the Angel Gabriel's visit, and conceived the Saviour of the world in the sixth month of Elizabeth's pregnancy, that is to say March, the Birth of Jesus must have taken palce in the month of December.

* Or, one could ignore the Records of the Enrollment, the Bible, Tradition, Ecclesiastical Calendars etc and continue to sow enmity and error in an attempt to discredit the Church Jesus established (matt 16:18)

(Source: search FreeRepublic religion forum on thread "Why some Christians don't celebrate Christmas". I can't post the link here as it is another discussion board)

---------------------------------------

I also found this justifying Jesus born during Feast of Tabernacles:

http://biblicalholidays.com/Tabernac..._of_christ.htm

...

When Zechariah was ministering in the temple, he received an announcement from God of a coming son. The eighth course of Abia, when Zekharya was ministering, was the week of Sivan 12 to 18 (Killian n.d.). Adding forty weeks for a normal pregnancy reveals that John the Baptist was born on or about Passover (Nisan 14). We know six months after John's conception, Mary conceived Jesus (Luke 1:26-33). Therefore, Jesus would have been conceived six months later in the month of Kislev. Kislev 25 is Hanukkah. Was the "light of the world" conceived on the festival of lights?

Starting at Hanukkah, which begins on Kislev 25 and continues for eight days, and counting through the nine months of Mary's pregnancy, one arrives at the approximate time of the birth of Jesus at the Festival of Tabernacles (the early fall of the year).


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I Chronicles 24 we know that the priests of the order of Abijah were assigned to Temple service between the 12-18th days of the month of Sivan.

Now it was during his time of service in the Temple, in the week of the 12-18th day of Sivan, that Zecharias was told by an angel that his wife Elizabeth would have a son.

Luke says that Zecharias went home and that Elizabeth conceived. We don’t know exactly when this conception took place. But let’s say that within a week of Zecharias’s temple service ending, she did conceive--around Sivan 25.

If so, Zecharias’ son, who was later known as John the Baptist, would probably have been born on or about Nisan 15, which is the Feast of Passover, 285 days later. Two hundred and eighty five days is the normal human gestation period.

Remember that the gospels say that John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah. In John’s time the Jewish people were looking for Elijah to come as a forerunner to Messiah, and they expected Elijah to come at Passover.

So if John the Baptist, the “Elijah” to come, was born on Passover, he literally fulfilled this expectation.

(By the way, those of you who have been to a Passover seder know that Elijah is still expected to come at Passover.)

Now IF this is true about when John was conceived and born, let’s consider Mary (Miriam), the mother of Yeshua.

According to Luke, the angel Gabriel visited Mary in the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy. The sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy would have begun on the 25th day of the month of Kislev, which just happens to be the first day of Hanukkah, the Feast of Dedication.

Hanukkah is the feast that celebrates a great miracle, when the Temple was being rededicated in 164 BC after being desecrated by a foreign king. Interestingly, it was on that day that tradition held that both the original temple of Solomon and the temple constructed by Ezra had been dedicated.

Hanukkah is an eight-day feast commemorating the miracle of the temple oil burning for eight nights when there was only enough for one day.

So if we place the appearance of the angel Gabriel to Mary during the Feast of Hanukkah, possibly Yeshua was conceived in Mary’s womb during that very feast. Another interesting tie-in to Yeshua: eight is the number traditionally associated with Messiah, and of course light is the major symbol for the Feast of Hanukkah.

Now 285 days from the first day of Hanukkah is Tisri 15, the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles. So if Yeshua was actually conceived during the Feast of Hanukkah, He would have been born during--the Feast of Tabernacles!

http://www.sidroth.org/prayer_main16.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

God bless you all;

For myself I reject the claim that the Roman archives would have revealed the taxation records from Bethleham and the name of Joseph.

1) If the record existed to be found under constantine it would have been venerated.

2) The individual taxation names, for all the Roman Empire would have been far too extensive and expensive to "waste" the scrolls on. The correspondance coming from the Roman Procurator for Palestine would have detailed amounts collected and administration business, only. An obscure carpenter, registering in a small village in Palestine would not have been of any concern to the Roman Empire, at the time of the census.

The Roman Census and collection for taxes was collected following the fall harvest, when crops and weaned animals could be available for revenues.

The shepherd would not have been out in the open during the rainy/snowy winter months in Palestine.

For myself the Jewish Festival of Succoth, could not be a more auspicious Feast for Messiah to Tabernacle with man.

For this old greybeard from Kansas it is not an easy matter, nor one lightly entered into, to divest my heart of a half century of man's Christ's Mass traditions.

There will be no Christ's Mass tree around the Throne of David, when our Lord of Lords begines the righteous reign of the Root of Jessie.

There will be no stockings hung in Jerusalem, and no elf to come and fill them.

There will be no Christ's Mass songs sung in the presence of the Lamb of God, but only praises of Glory.

For this old man I thirst for the purity of His Word and His eternal Truth. I find little truth in the celebration of Christ's Mass, but far more of myth and legend decorated with sacred trappings.

In my research I have found that apparently in 1969 the RCC removed St. Nicolas from their list of Saints, do to a lack of solid evidence that he in fact ever existed. The feast of December 6th has apparently been changed from obligatory to an optional celebration.

This is why I use the Grinch as an avatar, for to those who lift-up Christmas in their hearts, my heart appears as small as that of the Grinch as he stole the Who's Christmas.

I merely state my personal perspective and where my heart is. We will probably have a tree, presents, and Christmas programs and dinner with my children and precious grandbabies. I do not force myu personal heart belief onto others, and until the Holy Spirit moves in the hearts of my family they will celebrate, but I cannot any longer in my heart.

May God so bless His precious children.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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shadowmaker
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The versus you give in Deut, is talking about sacrifices of children to false gods. And not to worshipping God in the way that these people do. Now, if you want to get technical about it, according to that, we shouldnt pray to God bc the pagans prayed to the sun god. Now are you going to stop praying? I know that I am not.

The one in Jeremiah is referring to cutting down a tree, craving a statue out of it and worshoping the statue. Notice it says "the work of the hands of the workman". This isnt referring to a Christmas tree. I m not worshipping the Christmas tree and I m not craving it up.

This is the time of year whether its the right day or month that we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. And Satan will stop at nothing, to tarnish, put down, and elimnate this once a yr event. Satan knows this celebration brings people to church, its used to spread the gospel, and it saves lost souls.

You should be using this time to witness to people, pass out tracks, etc etc. Not arguing with other christians about how its wrong bc of something the pagans did. [Confused] [Confused]

If its all about Santa, the tree, etc etc, THEN WHY is the ACLU and some of the other morons out there trying to elimnate it? Its a christian event, it spread the gospel, how much more can I say that. Satan wants it the "winter festival". He wants it to be "happy holidays". He wants people to put "xmas". Notice xmas takes Christ out of Christmas. Satan wants Christ gone. BUT guess what, in the end, we still win.

Merry Christmas,
Brad

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helpforhomeschoolers
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I agree with you; but conviction of those things has to come in one's heart by the moveing of the spirit. We can't legislate to others. We have to speak the truth but the Spirit has to do the convicting.
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dguss
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
quote:
It's a great day when the Religous people are in agreement with the pagans and the ACLU that want to ban all public expressions of Christmas.

It's very ironic to say the least.

Perhaps Christmas has pagan roots, but it's the pagans ie ACLU types who wish to ban it.

Ask yourself why?

Maybe while your asking you could ask why Mormons celebrate Christmas?

Actually banning Christmas was never advocated here that I can see. Calling it a celebration of the birth of Christ and a "Christian" affair" was the topic of the discussion.


Since I'm inclined to agree with most of the posts AGAINST christmas, what does God himself have to say? Is christ-mass mentioned anywhere in Gods Word? Notice what God had to say to the House Of Israel concerning the "custom" of decorating a tree:

Does God say anything about the Christmas tree? Notice, "Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

"Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

"For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.

"They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not" (Jeremiah 10:1-4).

Reread these scriptures if need too, but notice what God has to say about the practice of adorning trees; "LEARN NOT THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN!" How much more clear does God have to be for people to understand this vital point? The verses above sound an awful lot like the Xmas tree to me.

What else does God have to say about these practices? Let's move on and find the truth!

"What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it" (Deuteronomy 12:29-32).

Many will argue that Christmas and other pagan/heathen festivals are "extra-Biblical"; that, while they are not enjoined by scripture, are nevertheless harmless inventions of sincere Christians in worship of God and Christ. But God thunders at rebellious mankind, "Thou shalt not add thereto" in methods of worship!

Now I know what you're thinking, that's the Old Covenant and has no bearing on me. Remember God is the same yesterday, today, and forever...so it does have a bearing on you! Remember the entire Bible constructs the entire Word of Truth.

Plainly, God commanded His people NOT TO COPY the modes of heathen worship of the degenerate pagan nations of the world; not to adapt their ceremonies, symbols, and rituals, and call them by a different name. Yet, in direct, flagrant disobedience to this divine command, tens of millions indulge in these non-Biblical customs.

"`Tis the season to be jolly! Fa-la-la-la-la, la-la-la-la! Deck the halls with boughs of Holly!"—a familiar refrain. The "Christmas season" is exactly the same thing as "observing times"; observing the winter solstice, just as pagan sun-worshipers did.

The "holiday season," or "yuletide," or the "twelve days of Christmas" are commonly used to connote the "Christmas" holiday, or the "Christmas season."

What does Almighty God say about this?

"For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD..." (Deuteronomy 18:10-12).

My family and I don't do any of these man-made traditions. Easter isn't allowed in our home either.

Each of us has the "right" to celebrate whatever we like in this country. I believe in personal freedom, and obviously so does God considering He gave us free will. If you so choose to observe the christ-mass thing, have at it! I just hope that the little that I've posted here will open up some eyes to the TRUTH about this abhorred abomination.

If any of you don't believe anything I've written? Do the research and find out where Santa Clause, the Yule Log, the christmas tree, and the rest of these wicked traditions originate from...then you decide whether to follow man's folly or Gods Truth.

My 2 cents worth!

"How can we put Christ back into christ-mass, when He was never there in the first place?"

--------------------
Deut 31:6 "Be strong and of good courage, do not fear nor be afraid of them; for the LORD your God, He is the One who goes with you. He will not leave you nor forsake you."

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WildB
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Is not Santa C much like Harry P much like the tooth fairy?

All being lies that permote a false sence of dirrection to a feeling of goodness?

So how manny little ones has this lie hurt when they became big ones and their faith in a A Real Living God is shattered when the lie made its self known?

--------------------
That is all.....

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J4Jesus
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dude, some kid in my class said something so RIGHT the other day, our class got to talking about christmas but he said "hmm, i wonder if santa clause is satan, but just a cover up to get kids to follow him".

i was thinking "you have no idea"

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shadowmaker
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Betty, youre not alone. Some of us, just arent taking part in this post. I dont care who sides with who but I will celebrate Christmas. I refuse to argue about it, I refuse to get upset over it, and I refuse to care what the pagans did. I m celebrating my Lord and Saviors birthday and did I mention, I DONT CARE WHAT THE PAGANS DID.

Do ya ll realize how many people get saved, rededicate their lives, and hear the gospel of Jesus during Christmas? I see more people in church during this time of year, that I may not for the rest of the year. But it plants that seed and it brings people who have strayed or dont know Jesus, to Christ. (For the record, I was saved on Easter Sunday. [clap2] ) Plus, its a perfect time to witness to the unsaved.

And I REFUSE to say "Happy Holidays or Happy winter festival". If they get offended, tough. As a Christian, I m making a stand.

So, dont leave us Betty, I ll make the stand with you.

Merry Christmas everybody,
Brad

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epouraniois
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If the course of Abia is understood, it's timeframe, &c, it will be seen that the conception occurred Dec25th, and not the birth of Christ.

And of course, like every other of God's feasts, festivals, and Christian holidays, Satan foreknew of these, and set Pagan days upon them prior to God's having making His important days known.

Of course, it is foolish to question whether God should be celebrated on His holy days, as we should always, imo, celebrate the conception of Christ.


Before Christ, as is probably known by all here, the pagans would go up to the green trees, to the grove - not a green tree - and place a gift to their gods on this day.

I think we can celebrate without the trappings of paganism, and it is our obligation to the children to tell them the real meaning of the day, even how it was and is undermined by pagan things which worship not God.

Here are the helpful links dealing w/the timing, the conception, and the course of Abia from the appendixes of the Companion Bible:

http://www.angelfire.com/nv/TheOliveBranch/append179a.html
http://www.angelfire.com/nv/TheOliveBranch/append179b.html
http://www.angelfire.com/nv/TheOliveBranch/append179c.html

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helpforhomeschoolers
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Sister Betty: I love you and I do not begrudge you celebrating Christmas. I believe that if God wants you to see or believe anything about Christmas that is different than what you believe right now, then he will take care of that in your heart. HE ALONE is author and finisher of our faith! Our growth in this walk is HIS work, not ours.

I loved Christmas a few years ago, it was my favorite time of year. When the Lord spoke to me about it that was not my wish and I did not like what I heard, and my feelings about Christmas changed not because I wanted them to but because HE changed them. I do not now enjoy feeling differently about Christmas than other people in my family. I just cant change what I do feel. I heard and read and studied and looked at myself and HE changed my thoughts and my heart abotu Christmas. So you have heard the truth about Christmas and for now you dont care. You are going to keep celebrating Christmas... Santa and all. You are HIS child and If God wants to change that HE will.

It seems to me that it is God who must enable us to examine ourselves and be honest withour selves about the things we hold in our heart. As long as we do not stick our feet in the mud and determine that we will ignore the spirit when HE speaks, then we have no worry because the Spirit is able to teach us all things and HE will in HIS time not man's.

Anyway, I wanted to talk about this:

quote:
If you and I would have been alive back then, we would have been Catholic, Jew, or non-Christians. Whether we believe everything the Catholic Church does or not, every Christian Church got their roots from the Catholic Church.
This is the truth.

Betty: this is not the truth. There was no Roman Catholic Church until the third century. The Roman Catholic Church was born when Constantine declared Christianity to be the official religion of the Roman Empire. (Which by the way the Bible teaches no man can do - Christ alone will stnd on the mount of olives and declare the Kingdoms of the world are become HIS) Under constantine any one who would not join the church became persecuted. The Church of Christ that had been the persecuted now became the persecutors. Where Paul and the Christians of the first two centuries had experienced poverty, suffering and persecution at the hands of Rome in order to remain faithful to their beliefs... now "being a Christian" was the thing to be... the thing that the ones in the power and in the wealth and in the graces or the emporor were. If you would not claim Chiristianity you were an enemy of the state!

There remained throughout history a remnant who did not follow the apostasy of the Roman Catholic Church. In fact the baptists are not decendants of Luther's PRO TEST ANT reformation but have always been from the days that John the Baptist was baptising.

So please, celebrate Christmas if you feel that you are at liberty, but I pray that you will not go about saying that the Roman Catholic Church was the only church that there was and you were either a believer and member of it or you were a Jew or a heathen. Because this is hardly the truth.

God Bless You and your house.
Linda

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Gramajo320
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Hi Betty,

Honoring and celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ at Christmas is not a sin whatsoever. Jesus Christ is the focus of and the reason why we celebrate Christmas and we will continue to celebrate Christmas! For those who do not celebrate that's their perogative. For all of us who do celebrate Jesus's birth that is our right to do so without being condemned, etc. Also it's a perfect time for evangelizing as Born Again pointed out!

God bless you very much, Betty!

With love from your friend,
Joanne

--------------------
Gramajo320

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becauseHElives
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quote:
Why does it always come down to this?

No one should leave.

I agree

If you believe in Christmas, go to your death defending it.

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

give sound reasoning from historical facts or the Scriptures.

These things we are dicussing are eternal, can we grasp that thought eternal.


I have talked too many in private messages and encouraged them not to leave, but I have never advised anyone not to speak the Truth.

My beliefs put me at opposition with many of those in my own family; I have lost many friends over my beliefs, I have even suffered loss of much financially over my beliefs.

But when I accepted Yeshua/Jesus as my Lord, I understood the Truth will not make you popular.

Yeshua said they hated me and you that trust in me will be hated also.

To answer SoftTouch, It was the Anti-Baptist that stood for Truth when the Catholic Church was in power and even after Martin Luther and his followers came along and tried to bring what light they had. It was still only the Anti-Baptist (called Anti-Baptist because they alone opposed infant baptism) that were the true remnant.

While the Roman Catholics killed the Lutherans and the Lutherans killed the Roman Catholics. The Roman Catholics and Lutherans killed the Anti-Baptist together.

The Anti-Baptist refused to kill, they hid in the mountains, caves and anywhere they could just as the true follower of Yeshua did at the beginning.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Bat Elohim
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Why does it always come down to this?

No one should leave.

We all have our opinions. That's what makes this message board so good. We see everyone's opinions and decide for ourselves what we believe.

Soft Touch, Mrs. Betty, please don't leave.

We have already lost so many.

Shalom.

--------------------
Numbers 6:24 May ADONAI bless you and keep you. 25 May ADONAI make his face shine on you and show you his favor. 26 May ADONAI lift up his face toward you and give you peace.

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TEXASGRANDMA
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If anyone should go, it should be me. It is obvious that more agree with you than me. Please do not let me run you off. I did not say what I said to hurt you, but spoke from my heart.
I can't stand it when people kiss up to people than rat on them behind your back. Yes, I have a problem with people making me feel bad about Christmas and that is why I am being honest about it with you. But, I do NOT want to cause you pain. To lie to your face would cause you more pain then to speak the truth in love.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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SoftTouch
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You don't have to leave Betty. I think it's time that I do. This is breaking my heart [Frown]

--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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TEXASGRANDMA
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I grew up in the Assemblies of God Church but, I attended all the Bible Schools in my town. I always felt welcome at all the different Churches. We had the same values and we all celeberated Christmas. Christmas was very big in our town and very big with all the Churches.
When I joined the Christian BBS, I suffered a huge awakening that just because Christians in my town were similar, did not mean that Christians from around the Country were. Here I have met Christians who don't believe in going to Church, or tithing, and now Chrisitans who don't celeberate Christmas. It makes me sad that as a Christian I could be an outsider among other Christians. There are other Christian boards that celeberate Christmas and don't condemn Christians for doing so. The truth is I like it here, and I thought I had friends here, I hate that I am becoming more and more unwelcomed here. It is easy to say a person should not be hurt, but when one implies that you will go to hell for celeberating Christmas and another implies your commiting a sin by doing so, it can't help but make you feel like a bull in a china shop.
It breaks my heart, that people can be so anti-Christmas. Well at least I have my Church and my Church in Texas behind me on this. They too believe that Christians should fight very hard to keep Jesus the reason for the season. It does not bother me that others dont' celeberate Christmas. But, when my friends look down on me for doing so, I wonder if they were really my friends at all. But then again the devil has won by turning Christmas from good into evil in Christians eyes.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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SoftTouch
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[Frown] I am so sad that this is causing a wedge between us again this year. I knew it would [Frown] I am Not condemning you or anyone for what they choose to celebrate; but in the same breath, I can not deny the convictions that are on "my" heart (that others share as well). Each of us needs to deal with the convictions the Holy Spirit brings on our own hearts. This is a thread to discuss those convictions, but not to accuse anyone on either side. I understand all too well how this makes you feel and believe me it grieves me to see that. You Know that I Love you my Sister!

quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Why did Christmas began with the Catholic Church? Because that was the only Christian Church at the time. If you and I would have been alive back then, we would have been Catholic, Jew, or non-Christians. Whether we believe everything the Catholic Church does or not, every Christian Church got their roots from the Catholic Church.
This is the truth.

I don't have the research at my finger tips, but there has always been a "remnant" of Believers that were not in the Catholic Church. (I was just reading about this yesterday and I can't remember the source!). Messianics were never part of the RCC, and from what I've read on Fundamental Baptist's origins, they wern't either. I'm sure there's more then this... they may not have been 'formally organized' during the 'reign' of the RCC through history, but they we not a part of it (and many died horrible deaths because of that). I'm willing to bet Dale or Linda have info on that... I've lost all of my research from two computer crahses a while back [Frown]

I Understand that you're not worshiping santa and I don't believe you ever would!

For me it's the whole idea of taking a high pagan day (Dec. 25th) which was dedicated to just about every pagan 'sun' god that's been worshipped and assigning it to our precious Lord and Savior (and incorporating all the festivities and decorations used by the pagans and giving them 'different' meanings). Jerimiah had a lot to say to the children of Israel about doing these kinds of things. I can't help but feel that if it was offensive go God then, that it still is - as He does not change. That's where I'm coming from. This is the Conviction that the Holy Spirit has laid on My heart.

I was shocked by Linda's post and felt the need to comment on it. I'm sorry I caused you offense again Betty. I do not condemn you or anyone else.

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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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becauseHElives
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SoftTouch

quote:
What must the Lord think of his children doing these same things? There are so many references in the Old Testement where God tells His children not to worship him the way the pagans do...

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge(Hosea 4:1-6)

Knowledge: A Necessity for Godly Living


When Peter wrote about the traits of godliness or the fruit of the Spirit, he urged that knowledge be added to our lives. Knowledge of God's will is and always has been one of the most vital virtues among God's people. Jesus said, "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32). In the long ago God said, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being My priest. Since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children" (Hos. 4:6). When God allowed the ten tribes to go into Assyrian captivity, it was because of a lack of knowledge properly applied. When the people of Judah were taken into Babylon, it was because of a lack of knowledge. People refused to listen to men like Jeremiah. How vital knowledge is!

What A Lack Of Knowledge Does

1. A lack of knowledge keeps us in spiritual slavery to Satan. When Jesus said, "You shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free" (John 8:32), the Jews responded, "We are Abraham's offspring and have never been enslaved to anyone; how is it that you say, 'You shall become free'?" Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin" (vv. 33-34). They were in spiritual bondage because of a lack of knowledge. I am sure that there are multiplied thousands on earth today who are not Christians because they do not know. They, too, are in bondage because of a lack of knowledge. What a dynamic responsibility is placed upon the Christian to carry the Lord's words of freedom to the lost so that they might "come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved" (1 Tim. 2:4). Surely a lack of knowledge keeps us enslaved to the devil.

2. A lack of knowledge causes us to be lost. In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul spoke of the lawless one "whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming" (v. 8). This lawless one works in complete harmony with Satan (v. 9). In Paul's words he uses "all the deception of wickedness for those who perish" (v. 10). Why would they be deceived? Why would they perish? "Because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved" (v. 10). Because they did not have the love of the truth, "God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false" (v. 11). The result of their believing what is false is condemnation (v. 12). What is the cure for this condition? A love for the truth that will cause us to search for that truth, learn it, and live by it is the solution.

3. A lack of knowledge keeps us as children tossed and carried by winds and waves. One reason that Jesus gave gifts to the church - apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers - was to help us come to "the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man" (Eph. 4:11-13). As a result of this knowledge, he says, "we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves, and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming" (v. 14). So, a lack of knowledge would leave us as children. It puts us in the position of being tossed by the waves and carried about by the trickery and craftiness of scheming men. This may well explain why "millions call him (the pope) 'holy father."' It may well explain why millions are happy in denominationalism. It can well explain why thousands of brethren have no concept of Bible authority and therefore practice those things which are unauthorized. They are deceived because of a lack of knowledge.

4. A lack of knowledge keeps us from being able to teach others. This was precisely the situation described by the Hebrews writer in 5:12-14: "For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for some one to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For every one who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil. " They had been Christians long enough to be able to teach others, but their lack of knowledge left them in the baby class where milk had to be used rather than solid food. The church is robbed of able teachers because some lack knowledge that they should have gained. Souls may be robbed of salvation because someone didn't teach them the way of life. How tragic indeed is a lack of knowledge when that knowledge could have been gained!

5. A lack of knowledge causes us to be ashamed. We often quote 2 Timothy 2:15: "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." A failure to study means that I will have a lack of knowledge. This will cause me shame in not knowing God's will. It will cause me shame in not being able to "give an answer for the hope that is in me." It will cause me shame in not being able to guide my children properly. It will cause me shame in not being able to be a fountain of spiritual wisdom for my grandchildren. More than anything else, it will cause me shame when I stand before the Lord on the day of judgment. Oh, how I need to gain the knowledge of the Lord and his way!

How Knowledge Comes To Us

1. A person is not born with knowledge. It is not a gift that can be bestowed as a birthday present. The Holy Spirit does not come down and zap us with knowledge. Knowledge is acquired only by the use of our own mind in that activity called study. Our minds are capable of so very much, and yet we use them so very little. Psychologists tell us that we only use 2 to 5 percent of our mental abilities. Oliver Wendell Holmes said that the average person goes to his grave with his music still in him. I am sure that this is true in our spiritual lives. We could learn so very much about God and his word and yet we do not apply ourselves. We remain spiritual pygmies when we could become spiritual giants! The only way we can know God's word is by study. There is no other way. That study may be in form of our own reading of God's word and information about it or by our listening to others and discussing it with them. But the truth is self-evident: we must study in order to gain knowledge.

2. God commands us to study his word in order that we may know his will. Peter tells us to be "like newborn babes" and "long for the pure milk of the word, that by it you may grow in respect to salvation" (1 Pet. 2:2). He further said, "but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Pet. 3:18). The need is evident; the order is clear: we must study the word!

3. We are inspired by some noble examples of Bible study. The attitude of Cornelius is a beautiful example of one's desire to learn the truth. He said, "Now then, we are all here present before God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord" (Acts 10:33). Inspiration praises the people of Berea as being "noble" because "they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so" (Acts 17:11). Their quest for knowledge let them to the diligent effort necessary to come to know God's will.

4. God places upon parents some heavy responsibility along this line. In speaking to the parents in Israel, he said:

"Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one! And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart; and you shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. And you shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates (Deut. 6:4-9).

Parents today have a grave responsibility resting upon their shoulders. They are responsible for teaching children honesty, purity, dedication, and faithfulness is worship. They are responsible for guiding their children into sexual purity. We cannot leave it to the church or to the schools. So many parents have abandoned their sacred trust! We must restore to parents their allegiance to God and their children. How mighty is the call to parents to impart spiritual knowledge to children!

Truly, knowledge comes only through the learning process. It is up to us as to how much we learn and know.

III. Some Things We Must Know

1. We must know God. In fact, those who do not know God are in the group of those who will be banished from the presence of the Lord and the glory of his power (2 Thess. 1:7-9). Paul's intent in his precisely logical presentation on Mars Hill was to produce the knowledge of God in order that man may "seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us" (Acts 17:22-30). It is a lack of knowledge of God that causes the bulk of the immorality in the world. Paul said that we are not to live "in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God" (1 Thess. 4:5). We can only come to know God through his revelation of himself in his word. True, in nature we can know that there is a supreme being, but we cannot know who he is or what his characteristics are. Only by divine revelation can we know God and that revelation is the Bible (1 Cor. 2:9-13). To know God, we must study his word. The proof of our knowing God is seen in our keeping his commandments. "And by this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected" (1 John 2:3-5).

2. We must know Jesus. Paul's desire was to know him (Jesus) and the power of his resurrection (Phil. 3:10). John wrote, "Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name" (John 20:30-31). Thus, we come to know Jesus just as we come to know God -through the revelation that is given to us in the Bible. It is only by knowing Jesus that we can have the salvation that is made possible by his death, burial and resurrection. Paul tells us of the gospel which he preached "by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:1-4). We must know that Jesus was born of a virgin (Luke 1:26-38), that he did signs and wonders among the people (John 20:30-31), that he died for me, that he was raised for my justification (Rom. 4:25), that he ascended into Heaven to sit at God's right hand where he reigns over his kingdom (Eph. 1:19-23; 1 Cor. 15:24-26) and ever lives to make reconciliation for the sins of his people (Heb. 7:25). When I come to know him, I win only want to love him and serve him as the King of kings and Lord of lords (Rev. 19:16).

3. We must know the truth. Only by our knowing the truth can we be made free from sin (John 8:32). The reason that "the man of sin" could deceive so many people was that "they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved" (2 Thess. 2:10). The reason that many people "go onward and abide not in the doctrine of Christ" (2 John 9) is that they often do not know the truth. If I love the truth, I will diligently seek to know it so that I can live by it.

The writer of the majestic Psalm 119 is a dynamic example to us of love for the truth of God's word. As he uses the Hebrew alphabet to label each section, in practically every verse he uses a term that refers to the law of God. Observe:

v. 11: Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

v. 14: I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches.

v. 16: I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.

v. 24: Thy testimonies also are my delight, and my counselors.

v. 47: I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.

v. 72: The law of thy mouth is better unto me than thousands of gold and silver.

v. 97: O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.

v. 105: Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

v. 140: Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

Our need is to develop this same kind of love for the truth. Then we will diligently seek it.

4. I must know the truth about salvation. In very simple language Jesus sets forth his plan of salvation in such passages as Matthew 28:18-20, Mark 16:15-16, and Luke 24:47. We should have little trouble understanding it. It is tragic that these demagogues of religious theology have concocted ways of salvation that are not in God's book and deceive the hearts of the simple with such teachings as "faith only," "give your heart to Jesus as we pray, " etc. Jesus teaches that we must hear the gospel, believe it, repent, and be baptized in order to be saved or receive the remission of sins. Not only did he set it forth very plainly, but we see it consistently in action in the book of Acts. In the second chapter Peter tells his inquiring listeners to "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins" (v. 38). In every case of conversion we see the same plan in operation. Now, I must know this truth in order to be saved. I cannot be scripturally baptized without knowing the purpose of that baptism (Col. 2:12). Knowing and obeying his truth will make me free from sin.

5. We must know how to live. The purpose of divine revelation is to teach us how to live our lives in this world. Paul wrote Timothy in order that men might "know how to behave themselves in the house of God" (1 Tim. 3:14-15). The Lord's message teaches us to "live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world (Tit. 2:11-12). And "as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul" (1 Pet. 2:11-12). The character of God and of Jesus is revealed in the Bible. My goal is to become as God is. Therefore, I must know how to live and I can do that only as I know his truth.

6. We must know God's promises. We five in a world where there are temptations, discouragements, and numerous hindrances to godly living. We need motivations to keep on living as God desires. Some of the greatest motivations are the "exceeding great and precious promises of God" (2 Pet. 1:4). When temptations come, when discouragements weigh heavy upon us, the promises of God will sustain us. He has said that he will never leave us (Heb. 13:5-6). He has said that "all things work together for good to those who love God" (Rom. 8:28). He has said that we will have a gloriously new body in Heaven (2 Cor. 5:1-2). He has promised eternal life (Tit. 1:2). When we know and believe these promises, we have the incentive to keep on keeping on. We have the positive assurance that our labor is not in vain in the Lord (I Cor. 15:58). Let us loam and rely on the promises of God.

IV. Our Knowledge Must Be Connected With Doing

Our reason for learning the truths of the Bible is not that we might be a "walking encyclopedia." It is not that we might be a master at Bible trivia. We learn that we may do. Jesus said that the man who heard and would not do is like the foolish man who built his house on the sand (Matt. 7:24-28). James gives us the graphic picture of one who looks in the mirror and then forgets what he saw and then compares the forgetful hearer to such a foolish one (Jas. 1:22-25). We must be doers of the word. John tells us how we truly come to know God. He says, "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments" (1 John 2:3). He goes on to say that a person who claimed to know and did not keep his commandments is a liar (v. 4). Our whole purpose in gaining the knowledge of God is to five as he wants us to live (1 Pet. 1:16).

Once again we look to the Psalmist as he spoke of applying truth to life in Psalms 119.

v. 33: Teach me, O Lord, the way of thy statutes, and I shall keep it unto the end.

v. 34: Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.

v. 112: I have inclined mine heart to perform thy statutes alway, even unto the end.

As a result of following God's way we can say as the psalmist said: "Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them" (v. 165). May we come to have the kind of knowledge in our hearts that will make us free and will keep us in the pathway of righteousness all the days of our lives.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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TEXASGRANDMA
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Sorry Soft Touch,
But I celeberate Christmas as a form of worship to Jesus not santa. In my apartment are 3 ornaments showing santa praying to Jesus, not Jesus praying to santa. To imply that those who celeberate Christmas is indeed insulting to millions of Christians who will not only celeberate Jesus' birth in their homes, but in their Churches Sunday morning. Why did Christmas began with the Catholic Church? Because that was the only Christian Church at the time. If you and I would have been alive back then, we would have been Catholic, Jew, or non-Christians. Whether we believe everything the Catholic Church does or not, every Christian Church got their roots from the Catholic Church.
This is the truth.
When Christians go in their Churches Christmas Sunday morning, we will be sining praises to our Heavnly Father, not singing praises to santa claus. Please do not imply that there is no Christian connection to Christmas. It is Christ---mas. celeberbrating Christmas is worshpping Jesus not santa. even non Christians do not offer worship to their tree or fake santas.
thank you and Merry Christmas
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Celebrating Winter Solstice
by Selena Fox

Winter Solstice has been celebrated in cultures the world over for thousands of years. This start of the solar year is a celebration of Light and the rebirth of the Sun. In old Europe, it was known as Yule, from the Norse, Jul, meaning wheel.

Today, many people in Western-based cultures refer to this holiday as "Christmas." Yet a look into its origins of Christmas reveals its Pagan roots. Emperor Aurelian established December 25 as the birthday of the "Invincible Sun" in the third century as part of the Roman Winter Solstice celebrations. Shortly thereafter, in 273, the Christian church selected this day to represent the birthday of Jesus, and by 336, this Roman solar feast day was Christianized. January 6, celebrated as Epiphany in Christendom and linked with the visit of the Magi, was originally an Egyptian date for the Winter Solstice.

Most of the customs, lore, symbols, and rituals associated with "Christmas" actually are linked to Winter Solstice celebrations of ancient Pagan cultures. While Christian mythology is interwoven with contemporary observances of this holiday time, its Pagan nature is still strong and apparent. Pagans today can readily re-Paganize Christmastime and the secular New Year by giving a Pagan spiritual focus to existing holiday customs and by creating new traditions that draw on ancient ways. Here are some ways to do this:


Celebrate Yule with a series of rituals, feasts, and other activities. In most ancient cultures, the celebration lasted more than a day. The ancient Roman Saturnalia festival sometimes went on for a week. Have Winter Solstice Eve and Day be the central focus for your household, and conceptualize other holiday festivities, including New Year's office parties and Christmas visits with Christian relatives, as part of your Solstice celebration. By adopting this perspective, Pagan parents can help their children develop an understanding of the multicultural and interfaith aspects of this holiday time and view "Christmas" as just another form of Solstice. Have gift exchanges and feasts over the course of several days and nights as was done of old. Party hearty on New Year's Eve not just to welcome in the new calendar year, but also to welcome the new solar year.
Adorn the home with sacred herbs and colors. Decorate your home in Druidic holiday colors red, green, and white. Place holly, ivy, evergreen boughs, and pine cones around your home, especially in areas where socializing takes place. Hang a sprig of mistletoe above a major threshold and leave it there until next Yule as a charm for good luck throughout the year. Have family/household members join together to make or purchase an evergreen wreath. Include holiday herbs in it and then place it on your front door to symbolize the continuity of life and the wheel of the year. If you choose to have a living or a harvested evergreen tree as part of your holiday decorations, call it a Solstice tree and decorate it with Pagan symbols.
Convey love to family, friends, and associates. At the heart of Saturnalia was the custom of family and friends feasting together and exchanging presents. Continue this custom by visiting, entertaining, giving gifts, and sending greetings by mail and/or phone. Consider those who are and/or have been important in your life and share appreciation.
Reclaim Santa Claus as a Pagan Godform. Today's Santa is a folk figure with multicultural roots. He embodies characteristics of Saturn (Roman agricultural god), Cronos (Greek god, also known as Father Time), the Holly King (Celtic god of the dying year), Father Ice/Grandfather Frost (Russian winter god), Thor (Norse sky god who rides the sky in a chariot drawn by goats), Odin/Wotan (Scandinavian/Teutonic All-Father who rides the sky on an eight-legged horse), Frey (Norse fertility god), and the Tomte (a Norse Land Spirit known for giving gifts to children at this time of year). Santa's reindeer can be viewed as forms of Herne, the Celtic Horned God. Decorate your home with Santa images that reflect His Pagan heritage.
Honor the Goddess as Great Mother. Place Pagan Mother Goddess images around your home. You may also want to include one with a Sun child, such as Isis with Horus. Pagan Goddess forms traditionally linked with this time of year include Tonantzin (Native Mexican corn mother), Holda (Teutonic earth goddess of good fortune), Bona Dea (Roman women's goddess of abundance and prophecy), Ops (Roman goddess of plenty), Au Set/Isis (Egyptian/multicultural All Goddess whose worship continued in Christian times under the name Mary), Lucina/St. Lucy (Roman/Swedish goddess/saint of light), and Befana (Italian Witch who gives gifts to children at this season).
Honor the new solar year with light. Do a Solstice Eve ritual in which you meditate in darkness and then welcome the birth of the sun by lighting candles and singing chants and Pagan carols. If you have a indoor fireplace or an outdoor fire circle, burn an oak log as a Yule log and save a bit to start next year's fire. Decorate the inside and/or outside of your home with electric colored lights. Because of the popularity of five pointed stars as holiday symbols, this is a good time to display a pentagram of blue or white lights.
Contribute to the manifestation of more wellness on Planet Earth. Donate food and clothing to poor in your area. Volunteer time at a social service agency. Put up bird feeders and keep them filled throughout the winter to supplement the diets of wild birds. Donate funds and items to non-profit groups, such as Pagan/Wiccan churches and environmental organizations. Meditate for world peace. Work magic for a healthier planet. Make a pledge to do some form of good works in the new solar year.

For further reading:

Campanelli, Pauline & Dan, Wheel of the Year: Living the Magical Life. St. Paul: LLewellyn, 1989, pages 1-16.
Crim, Keith, editor, The Perennial Dictionary of World Religions. San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1989, pages 154, 182.
Ek, Hildur, Jul Tomtar, Jul Bockar and Sheaves of Grain. Lindsborg, KS: Barbos Printing, 1983.
Farrar, Janet & Stewart, Eight Sabbats for Witches. London: Hale, 1981, chapter 11.
Funk & Wagnalls, Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology and Legend. New York: Funk & Wagnalls, 1979, pages 229-230, 974-975,
Royale, Duncan, History of Santa: from 2000 BC to the 20th Century. Fullerton, CA: M. E. Duncan, 1987.
Scullard, H. H., Festivals and Ceremonies of the Roman Republic. Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press, 1981. pages 205-212.

This article was first published in Circle Network News.

EGADS! [Eek!]

What must the Lord think of his children doing these same things? There are so many references in the Old Testement where God tells His children not to worship him the way the pagans do... [Frown]

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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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becauseHElives
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It is very easy to lie to yourself why you do a thing.

Truth is it’s easier to follow the crowd than to stand for Truth.

The Faith of Yeshua and the faith expressed in the pages of Scriptures is never the way of the crowd but ever against the flow this world is going.

Christmas is with the flow of this world!

A person express it is about Yeshua’s birth and that’s a lie and their actions prove it

I can not judge whether someone who participates in Christmas is saved

but I can from the Scriptures and recorded history judge that December the 25th is a pagan holy day dressed up to deceive the masses

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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WhiteEagle
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BecauseHelives:

You are correct to live according to your conscience on this issue of celebrating Christmas.

I believe that as a Christian it is neither a sin to celebrate it or to shun it.

As you state "Christmas is not taught" in the Bible per se.

What is taught in the New Testament in 3 out of the 4 gospels is Christ's birth in Bethleham.

So Jesus' miraculous birth is part of the gospel message.

If He was never born, we would NOT have a Savior.

Christ's birth was part of the fulfilling of Old Testament prophecies and is part of God's triumphant plan to redeem us from sin and back to communion with God through Christ Jesus.

I'll celebrate that great event.

People who aren't Christian are free to celebrate it as they wish, but that doesn't change the reason why I will celebrate it.

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becauseHElives
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quote:
As Christians we have a duty to keep the story of Christ's birth and message of the gospel.
You are so wrong!

As Christians we do have a duty

but it is not to keep the traditions of The Roman Catholic wh!ore and the pagans of Babylon alive, such as Christmas and such.

Yeshua said “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

When Truth is set aside for traditions of men that have all their roots in pagan teaching people can never be free.

John 3:21
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 4:23-24
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

John 8:44
Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-15
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Christmas is not taught by Word or Epistle

“but had pleasure in unrighteousness” helping to continue the teaching of ancient Babylonia “Christmas”

There have been many that have practiced / participated in Christmas ignorantly of its roots but once you have received the Truth you are responsible for the Truth.

John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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WhiteEagle
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Linda (I love your grinch picture) very funny, as I know you are not a grinch at heart, even though you have your beliefs about this issue)


You make good point. But those people celebrate Christmas as winter solistice or whatever would continue that practice unless they got saved.

Born Again makes a very good point that Christmas is an opportunity for evangelism, and it reminds people that there IS a Savior, and HOPE, and that Angels sang when Christ was born and that a miracle occurred 2000 years ago, when God was sent to earth.

My family is abusive and on Christmas that was about the only time they acted loving when I was growing up. There is something special about this celebrating of Christ's birth.

The angels proclaimed: "Peace on earth and good will toward men."

The KIng of KIngs was born in a manger. Even the poorest person can relate to His humble birth.

As Christians we have a duty to keep the story of Christ's birth and message of the gospel.

If you read the words of many of the Christmas songs, such as Joy to the World, The first Noel, Silent Night, O Holy Night, these songs tell the gospel message.

Merry Christmas!

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oneyearandcounting
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I posted this somewhere else but I'm putting it here to.


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posted November 30, 2005 11:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really sucks that I can see both sides to the debate. I personnally think you have to do what is placed in your heart to do by the Lord.

Born again made a good point though Satan does get sloppy. I married into a Christian family but after one or two times of them preaching Christ I said enough no more. WEll evey Christmas My mother in law bought me two books. Always sports books by Christain athletes. You know what happened I knew what I was gettingalways said thank you. And because I like to read I read them.

The good thing about them was they talked about Christ but basically there wasn't any meat at all. In reading them the planted a small seed but nothing major that affected the way I now look at Christianity. When I got saved last year For Christmas we bought all our family and friends Christian type gifts. Mostly DVd's not one person was bold enough to throw them back at us. It's a seed.

I think that as Christains we need to look at the world. Can we use a day like Christmas to our advantage? Yes we can.

I looked at the pagan parts of Christmas, and as the man of the house was gonna say no more Christmas. My wife was angry and I couldn't figure out why. One night she actualy told me. I am going to share it with you right now.

When she was 5 her real father started molesting her. This happened till she was 16 yearsold.Now on Christmas every year he basically was a changed man for a week or so. That became my wifes favorite time of the year. So even now as a 31 year old it is her favorite time of the year.

I asked her why and she said that for that one week or so every yea Satan left her alone. And her family was somewhat normal. In talking to her brothers and sisters they all feel the same way.

This year I will be celebrating Christmas. I will celebrate my Saviors birth and I will celebrate it because it was the only time of the year that my wife got to have a normal childhood.
You know what I think God will understand.


God bless you

greg

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Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

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the whole tradition of Chrstmas, whether accurate or not, provides a magnificent opportunity for evangelism--that's probably why the devil would like to get rid of Christmas.

when else can I get away with singing on the street corner that Jesus, the Savior of the world, was born in a manger in Bethlehem?

like, who cares if the holiday is real or not, the devil is rarely so sloppy as he finds himself having to be around Christmas--yea, he can get 'em to "shop till they drop", but unfortunately, those Christians take advantage of the devil's "goodness" to evangelize about that Jesus of Nazareth fellow.

Give me Christmas or give me death!

God bless, [Cross] BORN AGAIN

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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
It's a great day when the Religous people are in agreement with the pagans and the ACLU that want to ban all public expressions of Christmas.

It's very ironic to say the least.

Perhaps Christmas has pagan roots, but it's the pagans ie ACLU types who wish to ban it.

Ask yourself why?

Maybe while your asking you could ask why Mormons celebrate Christmas?

Actually banning Christmas was never advocated here that I can see. Calling it a celebration of the birth of Christ and a "Christian" affair" was the topic of the discussion.

You are right the secular humanists behind the ACLU do want to ban Christmas and anything that has association with God, but the fact is you could ban Christmas and a whole lot of people who are not Christian would be affected. Most pagans I know believe that Christ lived. Most pagans dont deny God. There are two different issues when you speak of athiests and when you speak of pagans or wiccans or druids.

That is the point. The secular world celebrates the Christmas season. There are abortion doctors that celebrate Christmas, I used to volunteer at a Planned parenthood office that closed for Christmas and had a Christmas party for its staff every year!!! There are practicing homosexuals that celebrate Christmas buy buying gifts for each other that you could not paste the picture of on this website because they are so sexually obscene. I have known some personally. In fact I used to employ a couple who could fit into this catagory.

Actually I know personally some very religious Roman Catholics and some very pagan wiccan's who personally who would be very upset if one were to ban Christmas. They will be spending Christmas together this December 25 exchanging gifts... some of them which are hand made and hours were spent preparing as Christmas gifts. I know one such wiccan man who made for his wife one year the most interesting pair of earings crafted by hand out of silver - a cross with a pentagram attached to its center. I said to him oh, that is very unusual! His reply was yes is it not beautiful... it symbolizes perfectly my beliefs. These two groups of people have celebrated Christmas together for many years. One prays the rosary and attends mass and the other attends a winter solstice festival, but Christmas day you will find them sitting round the same table for Christmas dinner the decorations will all be there the tree, the manger scene, the santa that bows to the infant in the manger, the pretty packages, the good times and cheer and the smells ... wonderful smells there is just one problem.... it is not about Jesus or his birth it is about the traditions that all enjoy.

Here is an example from a pagan website of how the pagans view Christmas; most pagans are very accepting of other religions.... Now there is a thought... religion... religious people. There is a huge difference in religion and relationship isnt there?

Celebrating Winter Solstice
by Selena Fox

Winter Solstice has been celebrated in cultures the world over for thousands of years. This start of the solar year is a celebration of Light and the rebirth of the Sun. In old Europe, it was known as Yule, from the Norse, Jul, meaning wheel.

Today, many people in Western-based cultures refer to this holiday as "Christmas." Yet a look into its origins of Christmas reveals its Pagan roots. Emperor Aurelian established December 25 as the birthday of the "Invincible Sun" in the third century as part of the Roman Winter Solstice celebrations. Shortly thereafter, in 273, the Christian church selected this day to represent the birthday of Jesus, and by 336, this Roman solar feast day was Christianized. January 6, celebrated as Epiphany in Christendom and linked with the visit of the Magi, was originally an Egyptian date for the Winter Solstice.

Most of the customs, lore, symbols, and rituals associated with "Christmas" actually are linked to Winter Solstice celebrations of ancient Pagan cultures. While Christian mythology is interwoven with contemporary observances of this holiday time, its Pagan nature is still strong and apparent. Pagans today can readily re-Paganize Christmastime and the secular New Year by giving a Pagan spiritual focus to existing holiday customs and by creating new traditions that draw on ancient ways. Here are some ways to do this:


Celebrate Yule with a series of rituals, feasts, and other activities. In most ancient cultures, the celebration lasted more than a day. The ancient Roman Saturnalia festival sometimes went on for a week. Have Winter Solstice Eve and Day be the central focus for your household, and conceptualize other holiday festivities, including New Year's office parties and Christmas visits with Christian relatives, as part of your Solstice celebration. By adopting this perspective, Pagan parents can help their children develop an understanding of the multicultural and interfaith aspects of this holiday time and view "Christmas" as just another form of Solstice. Have gift exchanges and feasts over the course of several days and nights as was done of old. Party hearty on New Year's Eve not just to welcome in the new calendar year, but also to welcome the new solar year.
Adorn the home with sacred herbs and colors. Decorate your home in Druidic holiday colors red, green, and white. Place holly, ivy, evergreen boughs, and pine cones around your home, especially in areas where socializing takes place. Hang a sprig of mistletoe above a major threshold and leave it there until next Yule as a charm for good luck throughout the year. Have family/household members join together to make or purchase an evergreen wreath. Include holiday herbs in it and then place it on your front door to symbolize the continuity of life and the wheel of the year. If you choose to have a living or a harvested evergreen tree as part of your holiday decorations, call it a Solstice tree and decorate it with Pagan symbols.
Convey love to family, friends, and associates. At the heart of Saturnalia was the custom of family and friends feasting together and exchanging presents. Continue this custom by visiting, entertaining, giving gifts, and sending greetings by mail and/or phone. Consider those who are and/or have been important in your life and share appreciation.
Reclaim Santa Claus as a Pagan Godform. Today's Santa is a folk figure with multicultural roots. He embodies characteristics of Saturn (Roman agricultural god), Cronos (Greek god, also known as Father Time), the Holly King (Celtic god of the dying year), Father Ice/Grandfather Frost (Russian winter god), Thor (Norse sky god who rides the sky in a chariot drawn by goats), Odin/Wotan (Scandinavian/Teutonic All-Father who rides the sky on an eight-legged horse), Frey (Norse fertility god), and the Tomte (a Norse Land Spirit known for giving gifts to children at this time of year). Santa's reindeer can be viewed as forms of Herne, the Celtic Horned God. Decorate your home with Santa images that reflect His Pagan heritage.
Honor the Goddess as Great Mother. Place Pagan Mother Goddess images around your home. You may also want to include one with a Sun child, such as Isis with Horus. Pagan Goddess forms traditionally linked with this time of year include Tonantzin (Native Mexican corn mother), Holda (Teutonic earth goddess of good fortune), Bona Dea (Roman women's goddess of abundance and prophecy), Ops (Roman goddess of plenty), Au Set/Isis (Egyptian/multicultural All Goddess whose worship continued in Christian times under the name Mary), Lucina/St. Lucy (Roman/Swedish goddess/saint of light), and Befana (Italian Witch who gives gifts to children at this season).
Honor the new solar year with light. Do a Solstice Eve ritual in which you meditate in darkness and then welcome the birth of the sun by lighting candles and singing chants and Pagan carols. If you have a indoor fireplace or an outdoor fire circle, burn an oak log as a Yule log and save a bit to start next year's fire. Decorate the inside and/or outside of your home with electric colored lights. Because of the popularity of five pointed stars as holiday symbols, this is a good time to display a pentagram of blue or white lights.
Contribute to the manifestation of more wellness on Planet Earth. Donate food and clothing to poor in your area. Volunteer time at a social service agency. Put up bird feeders and keep them filled throughout the winter to supplement the diets of wild birds. Donate funds and items to non-profit groups, such as Pagan/Wiccan churches and environmental organizations. Meditate for world peace. Work magic for a healthier planet. Make a pledge to do some form of good works in the new solar year.

For further reading:

Campanelli, Pauline & Dan, Wheel of the Year: Living the Magical Life. St. Paul: LLewellyn, 1989, pages 1-16.
Crim, Keith, editor, The Perennial Dictionary of World Religions. San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1989, pages 154, 182.
Ek, Hildur, Jul Tomtar, Jul Bockar and Sheaves of Grain. Lindsborg, KS: Barbos Printing, 1983.
Farrar, Janet & Stewart, Eight Sabbats for Witches. London: Hale, 1981, chapter 11.
Funk & Wagnalls, Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology and Legend. New York: Funk & Wagnalls, 1979, pages 229-230, 974-975,
Royale, Duncan, History of Santa: from 2000 BC to the 20th Century. Fullerton, CA: M. E. Duncan, 1987.
Scullard, H. H., Festivals and Ceremonies of the Roman Republic. Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press, 1981. pages 205-212.

This article was first published in Circle Network News.

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BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA writes
quote:
Like I believe WhiteEagle said, Christians should be ashamed of being on the same side as the ACLU against Christmas.
sometimes the truth (or expedience) makes strange bedfellows. See the article under End-Time News, Televangelists on Unusual Side in Indecency Debate.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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No, it is because if Christians forsake Christmas celeberations and the ACLU have their way then then Christmas will become Winter Holidays and any resemblence of Christ in Christmas will be gone completly.
Like I believe White Eagle said, Christians should be ashamed of being on the same side as the ACLU against Christmas.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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