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Topic: Should A Christian Celebrate Christmas?
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Thunderz7
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Member # 31
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posted
1Cor. 8-
1 ¶ Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
4 ¶ As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 ¶ Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend
1Cor.8:8, to me, says if your conscience is not condemed by the meat offered to idols, it is alright to eat it.
1Cor.8:9-12, is very plain in its warning that in eating the meat offered to idols,
not to overstep your liberty and become a stumblingblock to those whose conscience is defiled and condemed by the meat offered to the idol.
verse 12 could not be plainer-
12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
Now this is just about eating the meat in front of those who think it wrong.
But to call the meat holy, and proclame the idols to be a part of holiness is far beyond a sin against Christ.
T7
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TEXASGRANDMA
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so since praying is ordering God, do you suggest, my friend that we stop praying?
shame on you!
betty
In my home, we ask people for favors and don't order. I believe even Jesus prayed.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Is it wrong to pray that people will be saved? Asking God to deal with lost souls is quite different from ordering the Holy Spirit, my friend.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Jesus Christ Super Star was not a Christian movie.
And just because you did not get saved at Christmas, does not mean someone else can't.
betty
But it got me. So now you are going to tell the Holy Spirit how to walk into a kids heart that is hurting?
Oh Betty~ put not our Christ in the golden box of Mosses.
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That is all.....
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Jesus Christ Super Star was not a Christian movie.
And just because you did not get saved at Christmas, does not mean someone else can't.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
I tell you what I am praying about. My Pastor in Houston, asked us to pray that God will use the Christmas season to bring in the lost to Churches and to open their hearts to accept Jesus as their Savior.
betty
I asked both Pastors one in Texas and one in Washington State, and they both said it is not only not a sin to celeberate Christmas but it is a special honor for us to be able to celeberate Christ birth. So don't worry about me.
betty
As a teenager I was making out with a girl at Jesus Christ Supper Star(the movie)it didnt save me.
Ask not from mortal man clearence, things that you do write .
Look to the Book....That Tec Manual of Life.
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That is all.....
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I tell you what I am praying about. My Pastor in Houston, asked us to pray that God will use the Christmas season to bring in the lost to Churches and to open their hearts to accept Jesus as their Savior.
betty
I asked both Pastors one in Texas and one in Washington State, and they both said it is not only not a sin to celeberate Christmas but it is a special honor for us to be able to celeberate Christ birth. So don't worry about me.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
and how many unsaved people will attend Church on Christmas Day and get saved? Without Christmas there is no salvation.
Do you ever read and prayfully post as it matters to The Tec Manual of Life?
You are starting to worry me.
My spider sences are tingling.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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TEXASGRANDMA
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and how many unsaved people will attend Church on Christmas Day and get saved? Without Christmas there is no salvation. Jesus would have never died for you and my sins if He had not been born in a manger. Remove Christmas and we all go to hell.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
get over it, they worshipped Jesus
betty
SORRY~can't 2 yearold kids were bashed because of this mission.
Wake up girl.
Without it, The Fox wouldnt of known where the hens did lay.
Matt.2
1. [18] In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.
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That is all.....
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TEXASGRANDMA
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get over it, they worshipped Jesus
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
whether the wise men were invited the first night or not, they were invited by God and they worshipped the baby Jesus.
that is all that is important.................
betty
No~ They followed a propecy from Balam that need a arss to correct his coarse.
from the text http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=677751
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That is all.....
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TEXASGRANDMA
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whether the wise men were invited the first night or not, they were invited by God and they worshipped the baby Jesus.
that is all that is important.................
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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TEXASGRANDMA
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HisGrace,
Some Christians hate Christmas so much, that they are willing to bad mouth everything about Christmas including the wise men. Sadly they are too blind to see that they are playing right into the devil's hands who is trying to remove everything about Jesus from Christmas. Many Christians (including myself) are fighting tooth and nail to keep Jesus the reason for the season. I expected to fight the ACLU but I never thought I would have to fight fellow Christians to keep Jesus as the reason for the season.
These fellow Christians sit back and feel pride because they do not celeberate Christmas but they are in the same bed with athiest and other ACLU card members and sadly this does not bother them.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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helpforhomeschoolers
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I just love this statement:
quote:
I'm sorry to tell you that the Babylonians invented New Age.
Very good one BA; Indeed they did!
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
From the Internet: "Who were the Magi"?
when it is added that these fellows came from the east, you get the picture, don't you?
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
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posted December 08, 2005 10:20
AM
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Caretaker
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God bless you;
Romans 14:
1: Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2: For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3: Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4: Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5: One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6: He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7: For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8: For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9: For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10: But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11: For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12: So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13: Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14: I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15: But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16: Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18: For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19: Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20: For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21: It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22: Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23: And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
For this old greybeard it is difficult to divest ones-self of 5 decades of Christ's Mass tradition. The Lord is leading me gently into focussing on what is Biblical and to refrain from that which is not.
I do not force my perceptions on my family. We will probably put up the same lovely artifical fir tree we have used for the last quarter century. There will be Christ's Mass presents under the twinkling glow of the tree lights and ornaments. The nativity scene will take prominance in the center of our dining room table.
We will probably join our children and grandbabies at the candlelight service on Christ's Mass eve.
For myself alone the Lord is leading me to recognize that the majority of the Christ's Mass celebrations, including the date are from the Roman Catholic and pagan traditions.
The coming of and Incarnation of God as a wee-babe in that feeidng shelf over 2000 years ago is the greatest Gift of God, and His ministry and His glorious Redemption of Calvary the only hope for all humanity. We can truly honor it in our hearts and in our lives, and in our praises and reverence.
For myself alone the Lord is leading me into an awareness that in the righteous reign of the Root of Jessie, Christ's Mass will not be celebrated, but instead a Feast will be observed when shepherds would have been camped out under a midnight sky, not the rainy/snowy season of Israel's December, and that during the celebration when the Inn would have been filled.
Zech. 14:
16: And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Unlike Scrooge after his night of epiphany, who from thence-forward kept Christmas in his heart, I find myself no longer keeping Christ's Mass in my heart. My heart is focussed more and more on Christ Jesus our Lord and His eternal Word and truth.
Praise the Lord for my precious Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus. The primary time when the Coming of Christ is celebrated, advertised, and the doors of celebration opened and available to the lost is at Christmas. This season and Easter are the times when so many of the lost hear of Christ, which is the imperative. I do not judge each precious one who desires to celebrate the Coming of Christ at Christmas.
It is just for this old man he finds himself led to a commemoration of the day when God Himself once Tabernachled with lost humanity.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA writes quote:
there were NO New Agers in Bible days. New Agers do NOT worship Jesus. The wise men did.
TEXASGRANDA, I'm sorry to tell you that the Babylonians invented New Age.
They didn't call it "New Age", they called it astrology and divination and familiar spirits and soothsaying.
Our "New Agers" also believe in astrology, tarot cards, ouija board, psychic, the Christ, and always in religions other than being saved only by the cross and exchanged life of Jesus for ours.
The Babylonians invented astrology and southsaying and black magic:
Ezekiel 21:21
For the king of Babylon stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright, he consulted with images, he looked in the liver.
Acts 16:16
And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, who brought her masters much gain by soothsaying.
New Age is the same thing, invented in Babylon, except New Age is a more modern name.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
"I will make you fishers of men"
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TEXASGRANDMA
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there were NO New Agers in Bible days. New Agers do NOT worship Jesus. The wise men did.
betty
new age agenda:
Belief in Deity
God is the impersonal life force, consciousness, ultimate truth and reality, the incorporeal, formless cosmic order personified within all people and matter. God is all and all are God.
• Incarnations
Most believe there are no particular incarnations to worship, as all in the universe are embodiments of God.
• Origin of Universe and Life
The universe, life, and matter were not created by God but "are" God. The universe and life emerged out of the creative power of the eternal universal life force.
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does this sound like a group that prays to Jesus.
I don't think so
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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BORN AGAIN
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From the Internet: "Who were the Magi"?
Herodotus (I, ci) is our authority for supposing that the Magi were the sacred caste of the Medes. They provided priests for Persia, and, regardless of dynastic vicissitudes, ever kept up their dominating religious influence.
To the head of this caste, Nergal Sharezar, Jeremiah gives the title Rab-Mag, "Chief Magus" (Jeremiah 39:3, 39:13, in Hebrew original — Septuagint and Vulgate translations are erroneous here).
After the downfall of Assyrian and Babylonian power, the religion of the Magi held sway in Persia. Cyrus completely conquered the sacred caste; his son Cambyses severely repressed it.
The Magians revolted and set up Gaumata, their chief, as King of Persia under the name of Smerdis. He was, however, murdered (521 B.C.), and Darius became king. This downfall of the Magi was celebrated by a national Persian holiday called magophonia (Her., III, lxiii, lxxiii, lxxix).
Still the religious influence of this priestly caste continued throughout the rule of the Achaemenian dynasty in Persia (Ctesias, "Persica", X-XV); and is not unlikely that at the time of the birth of Christ it was still flourishing under the Parthian dominion. Strabo (XI, ix, 3) says that the Magian priests formed one of the two councils of the Parthian Empire.
Biblical Evidence
The Greek word magoi often has the meaning of "magicians", in both the Old and New Testaments (see Acts 8:9; 13:6, 8; also the Greek Septuagint of Daniel 1:20; 2:2, 2:10, 2:27; 4:7; 5:7, 5:11, 5:15).
Daniel 1
20 And in all matters of wisdom and understanding, that the king enquired of them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians {Greek LXX, magoi} and astrologers that were in all his realm.
Daniel 2
2 Then the king commanded to call the magicians {Greek LXX, magoi}, and the astrologers, and the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans, for to shew the king his dreams. So they came and stood before the king.
10 The Chaldeans answered before the king, and said, There is not a man upon the earth that can shew the king's matter: therefore there is no king, lord, nor ruler, that asked such things at any magician {Greek LXX, magos}, or astrologer, or Chaldean.
27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king has demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians {Greek LXX, magoi}, the soothsayers, shew unto the king.
BORN AGAIN adds: And look what company these fellows are keeping: astrologers and soothsayers.
Daniel 4
7 Then came in the magicians {Greek LXX, magoi} and the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers: and I told the dream before them; but they did not make known unto me the interpretation thereof.
when it is added that these fellows came from the east, you get the picture, don't you?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA writes quote:
Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
the wise men worshipped Jesus. Satan would not send anyone to worship Jesus. {bold by BORN AGAIN}
Satan would not send anyone to worship Jesus...are you kidding? The New Agers all worship Jesus.
In their case, they worship Jesus as an Ascended Master and not as the Biblical Savior of the world, but worship Jesus for being an Ascended Master, that they most certainly do. I know, I was a New Ager before I became a bornagain Christian.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
Mat 2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
the wise men worshipped Jesus. Satan would not send anyone to worship Jesus.
betty
Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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BORN AGAIN
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John 19:22
Then Pilate answered, "What I have written I have written." ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif)
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Yes, I believe God used these wise men. Betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA writes to BORN AGAIN quote:
unless you can prove they are new agers, you should not bad mouth them.
I have copied my response to His Grace below:
HisGrace writes quote:
Proverbs 10:14
Wise men store up knowledge, but the mouth of a fool invites ruin.
Now you're mixing apples with oranges, HisGrace.
In Strong's Concordance (www.eliyah.com), the word "wise" (the word "men" is implied but not in the text) in the OT is:
2450 chakam, from 2449; wise, (i.e. intelligent, skilful or artful):--cunning (man), subtil, ((un-)), wise((hearted), man).
In the Greek, "chakam" became "sophos" and NOT "magos".
In Egypt, Pharaoh had wise men (sophos) and he had "magicians":
Gen 41:8 And it came to pass in the morning 01242 that his spirit 07307 was troubled 06470 ; and he sent 07971 and called 07121 for all the magicians 2748 of Egypt 04714, and all the wise men 2450 thereof: and Pharaoh 06547 told 05608 them his dream 02472; but [there was] none that could interpret 06622 them unto Pharaoh 06547.
Strong's Concordance (www.eliyah.com)
2748 chartom, from the same as 2747; a horoscopist (as drawing magical lines or circles):--magician.
New Testament
Mat 2:1 Now 1161 when Jesus 2424 was born 1080 in 1722 Bethlehem 965 of Judaea 2449 in 1722 the days 2250 of Herod 2264 the king 935, behold 2400 , there came 3854 wise men 3097 from 575 the east 395 to 1519 Jerusalem 2414.
Strong's Concordance (www.eliyah.com)
3096 mageuo, from 3097; to practice magic:--use sorcery.
3097 magos, of foreign origin (7248); a Magian, i.e. Oriental scientist; by implication, a magician:--sorcerer, wise man.
Other occurrences of "magos" in the NT:
Act 13:6 And 1161 when they had gone through 1330 the isle 3520 unto 891 Paphos 3974, they found 2147 a certain 5100 sorcerer 3097, a false prophet 5578, a Jew 2453, whose 3739 name 3686 [was] Barjesus 919.
Act 13:8 But 1161 Elymas 1681 the sorcerer 3097 (for 1063 so 3779 is his 846 name 3686 by interpretation 3177 ) withstood 436 them 846, seeking 2212 to turn away 1294 the deputy 446 from 575 the faith 4102.
Do you really thing that God would use sorcerers and horoscopists to go "honor His Son the child Jesus"? I don't think so.
But Lucifer-Satan would.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA
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If God had issues with the men bringing gifts to Jesus, it would have been in the Bible. It was often in the Bible when God had issues with people.
Unless you can prove these guys were new agers, you should not bad mouth them.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA writes quote:
besides if God had been displeased with these men bringing gifts, He would have said so in the Bible.
many, many things happened which, for the sake of expediency, were not mentioned in the Bible:
John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA
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TEXASGRANDMA
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besides if God had been displeased with these men bringing gifts, He would have said so in the Bible.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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You have no right to call these men new agers. They may have indeed been men of faith and you, my friend, have spoken things you do not know for a fact to be true.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA wrote quote:
Mat 2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
they obeyed God, not the devil.
they may have been "magi" but they were NOT stupid.
they were of the class of people, as we see in our modern-day "New Age" people, they'll just about accept "anyone who appears superior in power".
Also, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God, and these "magi" no doubt chose the better part of wisdom and skedaddled home by another way to save their own skins.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Mat 2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
They obeyed God not the devil. Yes, the God sent the wise men. IF they had been of satan they would not have obeyed God and satan would have killed the baby Jesus.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA writes quote:
What is important is that God did send wise men to see the Christ child. Why is it important? It re-enforces the truth that Jesus' birth was a very important event in History.
How do you know that God sent the wise men? I think Lucifer-Satan sent the wise men, because the result of the wise men coming to Jerusalem is that numerous children under 2 years old were killed, and Joseph and Mary and the child Jesus had to flee to Egypt.
in addition, these wise men or magi came from the east, which was the seat of Lucifer-Satan.
I therefore do not think that God sent the wise men, but Lucifer-Satan.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA
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No Problem, hon,
and Peace be to you and your household.
God blessings,
betty lou ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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yahsway
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TG, I agree, I was just showing how traditions become well, traditions! Shalom
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I don't think it matters whether it was three or 10 wiseman. What is important is that God did send wise men to see the Christ child. Why is it important? It re-enforces the truth that Jesus' birth was a very important event in History. An event that many many Christian Churches around the world will celeberate in great joy, that God would leave His glorious home to become a lowly babe in a manger just so that He could bring salvation to a world that does not deserve it. When it is all said and done, it does not matter when Jesus was born, but that we, as His children take the time to celeberate and be thankful for the greatest gift mankind was ever given. Christmas and Easter go hand in hand for without Chirstmas there would be no Easter and without the death of Jesus and ressurrection of Jesus, there would be no salvation. My Pastor in Texas puts out a cross with his Christmas decorations in his yard, because he says we must never forget the great gift of Christmas led to the victory at the cross.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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yahsway
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Here is an example of a tradition.
The "three" wise men.
The scriptures do not refer to 3 wise men. It only refers to "wise men" coming from the east.
There were however 3 gifts that these wise men brought for Yeshua.
We are not told how many wise men came, but down thru the years songs such as We three Kings have become a tradition.
On another note, the scriptures do say that there was a heavenly host praising God and saying Glory to God in the Highest and on earth Peace to men of Goodwill. I believe they (angels) were singing.
Rev 5:9 is not refering to the angels singing a new song, but of the prayers of the saints:
And they (saints) sang a new song, saying;
You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals
For you were slain, and have redeemed US (not angels) to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe tonge and people and nation
And have made US (not angels) kings and priests to our God; And WE shall reign on the earth.
Amen!
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Gramajo320
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Hi Betty,
I completely agree with you that the angels did sing when Jesus was born. God bless you very much, Betty!
With love from your friend,
Joanne
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Gramajo320
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
someone said how do we know that the angels sang at Jesus' birth, but God is for singing. I believe the angels did sing with joy at the birth of Jesus.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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Gramajo320
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Shadowmaker,
A huge Amen to your posting too! Another beautiful Christmas song! I love Christmas songs and it's a true joy to see texasgrandma and you posting these wonderful blessed songs! God bless you very much!
With love,
Joanne
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Gramajo320
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shadowmaker
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Hark! the herald angels sing,
Glory to the newborn King,
peace on earth, and mercy mild,
God and sinners reconcile.
Joyful, all ye nations, rise,
join the triumph of the skies;
with the angelic host proclaim,
'Christ is born in Bethlehem'
Hark! the herald angels sing,
Glory to the newborn King.
Christ, by highest heaven adored,
Christ, the everlasting Lord,
late in time behold him come,
offspring of a virgin's womb.
Veiled in flesh the Godhead see;
hail, the incarnate deity,
pleased as Man with to dwell,
Jesus, our Emmanuel!
Hark! the herald angels sing,
Glory to the newborn King.
Hail, the heaven-born Prince of peace!
Hail the Sun of righteousness!
Light and life to all he brings,
risen with healing in his wings.
Mild he lays his glory by,
born that man no more may die,
born to raise the suns of earth,
born to give them second birth.
Hark! the herald angels sing,
Glory to the newborn King.
![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif) ![[dance]](graemlins/dance1.gif)
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Joanne,
thank you,
I love Christmas songs.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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Gramajo320
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Hi Betty,
I say Amen to your postings and I love your songs!
We love to honor and celebrate Jesus's birth no matter what any of those who object say! We who celebrate in honor of Jesus will have a truly blessed wonderful time!! God bless you very much Betty!
With love from your friend,
Joanne
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Gramajo320
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Gramajo320
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WParr,
Read about Jesus's birth in Matthew chapter two.
They brought Jesus gifts!!!!! The child is Jesus!!! We honor and celebrate Jesus's birth. You've made it clear that you don't do such a thing and that's your perogative, but you do not have the right to judge other people's hearts at all! WParr you read your bible!!!! You will be judged by every measure in which you judge others!!!!
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Gramajo320
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Chestnuts Roasting On An Open Fire
Chestnuts roasting on an open fire
Jack Frost nipping at your nose
Yuletide carols being sung by a choir
And folks dressed up like Eskimos
Ev'rybody knows a turkey and some mistletoe
Help to make the season bright
Tiny tots with their eyes all aglow
Will find it hard to sleep tonight
They know that Santa's on his way
He's loaded lots of toys and goodies on his sleigh
And ev'ry mother's child is gonna spy
To see if reindeer really know how to fly
And so I'm offering this simple phrase
To kids from one to ninety-two
Although it's been said many times, many ways,
"Merry Christmas to you."
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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TEXASGRANDMA
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don't worry gramajo, only a mean old scrooge would call The Drummer Boy song, trash.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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Gramajo320
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WParr,
You are wrong!
The three wise men most assuredly brought gifts to Jesus and the gifts were gold, frankincense, and myrrh!
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Gramajo320
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TEXASGRANDMA
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there is nothing wrong with that song. I love that song.
Written by Vince Guaraldi, Lee Mendelson
Verse 1:
Christmas time is here
Happiness and cheer
Fun for all that children call
Their favorite (fav’rite) time of the year
Verse 2:
Snowflakes in the air
Carols everywhere (ev’rywhere)
Olden times and ancient rhymes
Of love and dreams to share
Bridge:
Sleigh bells in the air
Beauty everywhere
Yuletide by the fireside
And joyful memories (mem'ries) there
Verse 3:
Christmas time is here
We'll be (Fam'lies) drawing near
Oh, that we could always see
Such spirit through the year
Instrumental
Repeat to Bridge and with last Verse (3) substituting Fam'lies for "We'll be"
Thanks to tenilly for these lyrics.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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THE LITTLE DRUMMER BOY
(Davis-Onorati-Simeone)
Come they told me (pa-rum pum pum pum)
A newborn King to see (pa-rum pum pum pum)
Our finest gifts we bring pa-rum pum pum pum
To lay before the King
So to honor Him (pa-rum pum pum pum)
when we come
Little Baby (pa-rum pum pum pum)
I am a poor boy too (pa-rum pum pum pum)
I have no gift to bring (pa-rum pum pum pum)
that's fit to give our King
Shall I play for You? (pa-rum pum pum pum)
On my drum
Mary nodded (pa-rum pum pum pum)
The ox and lamb kept time (pa-rum pum pum pum)
I played my drum for Him (pa-rum pum pum pum)
I played my best for Him
Then He smiled at me (pa-rum pum pum pum)
Me and my drum
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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I see that that you are correct Greg. God does not begrudge us traditions!
Traditions have wonderful cultural value to our society! A community might have a tradition to celebrate he harvest of their specific crop. When I lived in Florida we had a tradition of the Strawberry Festival. The small community of Plant City Florida grows a good deal of the strawberries that are grown in this country and every year at harvest they have a festival and you can go and see crafts and eat the best going strawberry short cake around. This festival knits the community together and is good!
Thanksgiving someone mentioned in another thread. There is nothing wrong with our tradition of Thanksgiving here in America.
There is nothing that I know of wrong with our tradition of celebrating our birthdays or our anniversaries or Maple Syrup cooking day or what ever your families traditions are. God does not deny us or begrudge us having traditions.
The problem that I see with Christmas is that we took what was the pagan RELIGIOUS celebration of winter solstice which the Christians should have gladly given up as they no longer worshiped or served gods that were no gods and we rather than chastising the church for its continued delving in religious paganism claimed their traditions as ours and painted them over with "Christian" meaning and significance and claimed them to honor THE only God who is God.
The truth is HE is not honored.
Why?
Because the Birth of Christ was perfectly and precisely appointed to the time that it was and it was not December 25th. Do we not understand that GOD is a precise God? Every thing about the life, death, resurrection ascension and even the return of HIM is specifically and precisely appointed and exact time by GOD and those times are prophesied and taught in the natural by God himself and they are the times of the feasts and fasts found in the scripture.
Gee God I know that you did this most incredible thing. You precisely picked the very day that Christ would be born out of all the days that you gave to the earth and you picked it and kept it for more than 6 thousand years and order every feast through calendar changes and wars and changes of power and all that happened throughout history that Jesus would be born on that day and would come into the world at a time, not when his earthly mother would be at home but while she would be journeying to Jerusalem and when there would be no place to stay because there were so many others also journeying to Jerusalem for the specific festival of your divine appointment that has prophesied of me from the beginning, but I like my tree and my present giving and my Holiday cheer and so I want to celebrate this great magnificent thing that you have done then because it suits me. Come on!
I just read an article in the Chicago time that Willow Creek is not going to have church service on Sunday so people can be with their families.
50K plus people are regular attendees at that church's church service. I wonder how many of them have any idea in the world the significance of Sukkot? I honestly do not know how anyone can know the significance of Sukkot and claim that Christmas is the celebration of Jesus' birth. There is not one thing in the celebration of Christmas that speaks to GOD's providence in the appointed time and festivities of Sukkot. Then again neither do many know why the Bible speaks of people coming down from the roof tops either or why at the transfiguration when the disciples wanted to build a tent for Jesus and Moses and Elijah, God stepped in and said... THIS IS my Beloved SON with whom I am well pleased. That was a purposed intentional and meaningful statement if you know the meaning of Sukkot. And you will note that they did NOT build tabernacles.
I could go on and one of the things that are part of the tradition of Christmas that became our traditions relabeled for the fooling of God's people and the taking away of there attention from what GOD has done and appointed.
Jesus may have attended many festivals that were the celebrations or traditions of men. But I guarantee you Jesus never lit a Yule Log or covered his mantle in mistletoe and Holy or did any of the other things that were done unto the gods that were not gods and called it being done unto the Father GOD.
Someone brought up the scripture the other day about the not decorating the trees and said it was speaking to the carving of idols. This may be, but do we think that God did not know that in 2005, people would be decorating trees in another way? Do you really think that it is just coincidence the language of that scripture? If that is how we are to interpret the word then there is no idolatry in Christianity today because there are not gold cast calves, right?
The problem is not as I see it that man has traditions. The problem is that Christians have traditions that were done to summon the works of the pagan god... to bless a harvest or return warmth and the sun to the land etc and we continue to do them and call them by HIS name, when the scripture clearly says not to LEARN the way of the heathen.
Jesus told us what to do in remembrance of HIM and it was to celebrate HIS covenant - the breaking of bread - what we call communion. No place in the scripture do we find the apostles celebrating the birth of Christ. No place in the scripture do we see Jesus doing anything that was associated with the worship of pagan gods or practicing the customs of the nations.
I mean come on... we give EACH other gifts because the wise men brought HIM gifts. I might be able to buy that if it was to HIM we were giving gifts. Gifts were given to each other by the druids this is why we give gifts to each other... we adopted their heathen culture and we like it! Putting Christ's name on it allows us to justify it.
Jesus through out the money changers in the temple built of stone and said you wont merchandise in the temple. Do you think he approves of the merchandising we do in this one that is not made of stone? The commercialism and materialism of Christmas is appalling even if it were still done as it was done by the druids and the Nordic peoples and Christ's name was not on it; It was appalling I am sure when it was the Roman culture buying and giving sigillaria dolls to sacrifice to the gods, but put Christ's name on it and appalling does not describe the disgust I feel when I look at Christmas trees going up before Halloween is past and the droves of people pushing and shoving and acting like fools to get their (what ever the fad) gift of the season is.
There is not anything wrong with traditions. God does not bar us from having traditions; but there is much wrong with traditions that were learned of the heathen religious practices and there is much wrong with claiming that our traditions are HOLY or that God even approves of our traditions that amount to our having learned the way of the heathen. There is much wrong with our knowing more about the traditions of the druids than we know about the appointed times and feasts and fasts of God, and there is much wrong with telling the world that we honor God by doing things that are directly opposed by God and things that Jesus would not do.
I am done on this subject. It was never my intention to be acting or sounding like a bully; I don't see that it is my place to convince any one to see things as I do. I personally understand your thoughts Greg with regard to your wife's feelings about the season. I think that my husband made a similar decision in allowing a tree to remain in our home for my daughter who just simply loves the "Christmas time" glow of things and the cookie baking and the family time that the personal traditions in our home have always been. I would have taken a different approach, but God gave me a husband who is a Godly man and much more able to run this house than I could ever be and I whole heartedly submit to his leadership and wisdom in this and I trust that God does and will continue guide him. Still I look forward to the year that we will be empty Nester and have no tree. I am thankful for the things that we have changed mostly my heart about the matter because there is no way that I can sit here and tell you that for me Christmas was all about Jesus though it is why I thought we celebrated, when I examined with honest heart our traditions they were just that traditions. I did not decorate for Jesus or cook for Jesus or shop for Jesus. I cooked because I loved to cook for a crowd; I cooked because i loved being the home that showed hospitality to anyone and everyone my family would drag home that had no place else to be and I decorated because I like pretty things and I don't decorate all year long this was the one time that my home looked like it was planned and not just a hodge podge of things collected. And I shopped because I wanted to be the one remembered for finding that just perfect gift. It was for me all about me and the "Christ" in Christmas gave me a legitimate excuse. There may be someone out there who really does all these things FOR Christ and to them I say... WOW! Because I have never met anyone who did and I don't personally know (understand)how you do it,because I could not know what I know about it and really feel that I was honoring him, but that is me personally and if you really do do it for HIM then Praise God!
Peace Be with you all! Not just this season, but in all seasons.
Linda
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