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Author
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Topic: "Do not go beyond what is written." Examining 3rd Wave Teachings
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
quote:
I use Satan and demons interchangeably.
Why do you think that the bible does not use them interchangibly?
I do think the Bible uses them interchangably.
Jesus said after the 70 returned to Him saying they cast out demons in His name:
"I saw Satan fall like lightning."
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
quote:
I use Satan and demons interchangeably.
Why do you think that the bible does not use them interchangibly?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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SoftTouch
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
When the Holy Spirit leads us in all Truth, He opens our eyes to the fullness of the scriptures and how to apply them to our lives and live in them.
I suppose Softtouch, you would call that going beyond what it Written.
No, I would not.
I think the article is pretty clear on what is meant in regards to the extra-Biblical doctrines and practices that are being expoused by some today. That is what the article (which is the subject of this thread) is about. Please do not put words in my mouth - that is going beyond what I had originally posted and 'assumes' much ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
As far as posting articles, I see nothing wrong with doing this. It Does start discussions (or this thread would have gone nowhere). I wrote my own article once and it took me over three days to do so. I don't have that kind of time anymore. You'll just have to accept me for who God made me with the talents and gifts HE gave me, or not at all, but I will not 'conform' myself to what others would have me to be.
I have an extremely busy weekend so don't be surprised if you don't see much from me after this post ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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WhiteEagle
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posted
When the Holy Spirit leads us in all Truth, He opens our eyes to the fullness of the scriptures and how to apply them to our lives and live in them.
I suppose Softtouch, you would call that going beyond what it Written.
The letter of the Law or the Word kills, the Spirit of the Word is what brings us Life.
God's Love is talked about in scripture. Yet if one hasn't experienced His love personally, it is just a meaningly phrase in the Bible. It's a theory. Yes we can believe in God's Love by Faith, but Faith is not just a theory either. Faith is a living active state of believing what God says is Truth.
When one's life is changed by God's love I guess that's going beyond the written Word. If one get bathed in the Holy Spirit and embraced by God's Love I guess that must be going beyond what is written.
So I say that you are condemning those who are expounding the Word and are showing a fullness of the Word that just because you can't see it, you feel they are going BEYOND.
Example of my own:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
I see that they was Nothing of material substance prior to God speaking the worlds into existance. The heavens and earth are not eternal and had a Beginning.
Am I going beyond what is written?
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
SoftTouch instead of constantly 'going beyond' to
--www.deceptioninthehurch
--www.thewatchman
--www.........
--www.........
--265.--www..........
--266.--www.........., why not turn to the Bible? It would be nice to see you out in Bible Studies and other Worship Forums once in awhile to share your views on Jesus' teachings, your views on Moses and David, and your views on many other enriching lessons in the Bible.
I agree with you here.
Soft touch why not give us your own words and use scriptures to back them up, instead of going to other's writings.
It would make more of a true discussion and be more realistic to apply these things per ones' own experience with the Word.
Like do you know anyone personally who has been hurt by those doctrines? And how were they hurt?
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WhiteEagle
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posted
ByGod is the only ONE that can excercise authority over Satan because God is the only one that can deal with Satan in a way that is loving. God is excercising AGAPE over Satan by bringing him to the realization that he is not and cannot be God and thus he is judged and is guilty and will justly be imprisoned in the lake of fire. Satan is not without need for God. Satan needs God to destroy his works and end his perversion of his own wisdom, and evil and GOD is the only one that can provide him what he needs for his ultimate good.
Thus God is the only one that can have authority over Satan.
What think ye?
Linda:
I think you need to add 2+2. In other words there are multiple scriptures in the New Testament that talk of the believer's authority over demons. I use Satan and demons interchangeably. I agree Satan will be bothering us as long as we draw breathe on this earth, but as believers we can limit and defeat his goals.
You have stated repeatedly that we are seated in heavenly places by Christ Jesus.
We have Christ in us the Hope of Glory.
Jesus name is above every other name.
Greater is He who is in you, then he who is in the world.
All authority has been given to Christ and all things are under His feet.
The life we now live in Christ who died and gave Himself for us, and Christ lives through us.
Not to mention that Jesus gave his disciples power over the serpent and scorpions(Satan)
We are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
The gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church.
Most of all, we are covered by the Blood of Christ.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
quote:
We cannot bind Satan. Only Christ can do that when He returns. Demons can be cast out of people, but we can never be completely free from His attacks in this life. Temptations and trials are allowed by God to build us up in our faith, to develop perseverance.
Deb, I had oprginally intended to stay out of this thread because I am not sure that I agree with this author on all things and I did not want to take the thread in a different direction, but I think that BA and Aaron both have brought clarity to where I would have been in disagreement with this author and so, I wanted to look at some other things in the article more closely.
This point above in quotes is I think very important. We have people running around claiming to have authority over Satan and I do not believe that the scripture supports this view at all.
The grace, and mercy of God made possible through the blood that is extended to us allowing us to become born again children of the Living God has freed us from Satan's authority. IT HAS NOT placed us in authority over him.
If we were to think long enough on the Biblical principle that according to God's way of doing things the one in authority leads, directs, the one held under authority by service, we would reject this idea in a second.
God who was the head of the Israelites served them, protected them, loved them, provided for them....encouraged them to let HIM be God and thus the one who met all their needs according to his riches and glory.
Jesus, who is our head and our authority leads us through service... he demonstrated this in the natural in the washing of the disciples feet and of course in the ultimate service of dying for us on the cross.
Jesus taught that the elders and bishops of the church were servants of the church, ministering to the needs of the Body.
This is completely upside down of how Satan's authority works.
If we found ourselves in authority over Satan, we would find ourselves ministering to him and that would be serving the wrong god.
God is the only ONE that can excercise authority over Satan because God is the only one that can deal with Satan in a way that is loving. God is excercising AGAPE over Satan by bringing him to the realization that he is not and cannot be God and thus he is judged and is guilty and will justly be imprisoned in the lake of fire. Satan is not without need for God. Satan needs God to destroy his works and end his perversion of his own wisdom, and evil and GOD is the only one that can provide him what he needs for his ultimate good.
Thus God is the only one that can have authority over Satan.
What think ye?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I do not think that I am alone in being weary of it.
Nope, you are not alone ![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
Hisgrace, respectfully, I do not intend to join you in turning this thread into something that it is not. I find it very sad that you cannot and will not look at yourself, with regard to needing any improvement or ever being in error, but seek to instead point out continually what you perceive to be wrong with those here who you call brother or sister. Disagree with someone scripturally and show your point scripturally and I will yell Bravo HisGrace! But your continual attack of what people are interested in and your need to show that what intrests others is not worthy of discussion is disgusting and I do not think that I am alone in being weary of it.
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
As for me, I know what the Lord would have me do and to which part of HIS body I belong But thank you for your suggestions ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif)
SoftTouch we both have a very difficult time with each other's views, and once again I have to back off from this forum.
Carry on.
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
HisGrace, Perhaps you should ask Brother Barry Kind (if he comes back here again) about the Freemason book "Morals and Dogma." He acquired a copy from a homeless man who died in a shelter he worked in. He read this book and has testified on this board (a while back) that this book is Satanic as is Freemasonry.
That is not the point. I am not saying that book is not true, but anyone at all can open up a myriad of websites and print anything they want about anyone they want without any accountability. It would be interesting to really know how many lies are printed just because of prejudicial vindictiveness.
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SoftTouch
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posted
HisGrace, Perhaps you should ask Brother Barry Kind (if he comes back here again) about the Freemason book "Morals and Dogma." He acquired a copy from a homeless man who died in a shelter he worked in. He read this book and has testified on this board (a while back) that this book is Satanic as is Freemasonry.
As for me, I know what the Lord would have me do and to which part of HIS body I belong But thank you for your suggestions
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Could you not have found anything worthy of bringing to the table yourself in over 60 scripture references that could have contributed to this discussion?
No - those were Sandy Simpson's words.
This is a quote by RioLion on another thread and he makes an excellant point.
"What is all too often disturbing is that in viewing anti-Masonic literature, the authors all too often use quotes out of context, or simply make statements that cannot be substantiated or even blatantly untrue.
Take for instance a partial quote from Morals & Dogma (page 321) - the bible of Freemasonry -
"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the son of the morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with it's splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!"
If one takes the time to research this quote, there is a sentence directly before this statement that states –
"The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the 19th degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer ."
The author of the article is trying to make the reader believe that Albert Pike, the arch Mason, actually believed in Lucifer as his guide. This is simply not true. "
Even though we may not support Freemasonry views, does that give us a right to print anything we want about them?
Is a half-truth just as bad as a lie?
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
Linda,
I agree. When I read HisGrace's remarks, my first thought was that she was trying to start a fight, but then I thought maybe I am just too defensive. The truth is we had a good discussion here and no one got mad and HisGraces should not have tried to turn it in to an argument.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
HisGrace: Why do you seek to dictate what others read, study, speak on? Why is what Deb speaks on or Watchman speaks on or is interested in speaking on less worthy of discussion than what you speak on or feel worthy of disucssion.
I counted over 60 scripture references in Deb's post and got tired of counting; I would venture that Deb's post has perhaps 100 scripture references.
When was the last time that you posted anything with 50 scripture references; that you did not copy and past off someone's website?
Could you not have found anything worthy of bringing to the table yourself in over 60 scripture references that could have contributed to this discussion?
The only valuable thing that you cold contribute was to chide Deb about where she goes and what she posts?
I dont see Deb or Watchman or any one here trying to tell you what you can and cannot post about.
Have you ever thought that maybe you need your own forum where you can post about and force others to post about only the things that are apporved of you?
This is a good discussion. I think that Deb has brought some excellent points to the table and Aaron has brought some excellent points to the table and Grandma Betty asked a valid and pertainent question that should be addressed based on what Aaron said and we have had a civil, brotherly disucssion here.
There is no need to come in her rebuking Deb for what she studies or posts on. I assure you that Deb spends a great deal of time in her Bible and knows a great deal of the word and God has moved in her spirit that she understands how to keep that word in context and discern who is talking to whom and to whom a verse applies etc in scripture which is more than I can say for a good number of people in the world who call themselves Christians, even some with seminiary degrees.
I just dont see the point in your doing this and it is your doing this that turns too many threads into all out bashes.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
unregistered
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posted
SoftTouch instead of constantly 'going beyond' to
--www.deceptioninthehurch
--www.thewatchman
--www.........
--www.........
--265.--www..........
--266.--www.........., why not turn to the Bible? It would be nice to see you out in Bible Studies and other Worship Forums once in awhile to share your views on Jesus' teachings, your views on Moses and David, and your views on many other enriching lessons in the Bible.
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Aaron
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
On a side note please say a prayer for me. I lost my balance today and fell and hit the wall and my desk. That was this morning and now I am begining to feel the pain in my right arm and shoulder when I hit the wall and my left arm where I hit my desk. I am having issues lately with keeping my balance and this is the 2nd fall I have had in three weeks.
betty
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
My dear Grandma,
I will pray for you...as soon as I hit the "add reply" button. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Aaron
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
The hip probably is elated, but your muscles that hold your hip in place are probably not as strong as they should be for the new more active you! Does your Y have any machines? There are machines that are low to no impact like they have at curves that are simple to use even with the physical limitations that we have that can strengthen your inner and outer thigh muscles that support your hip joint. I know that my leg muscles have become quite weak as my arthritis has progressed because we tend to become less active as it hurts. This particular machine that I am thinking of only takes about 5-10 minutes 3x a day to make a huge difference and you use it sitting down just working your legs bringing your knees and ankles together and apart very easy not strenuous but the resistance makes the muscles stronger in no time. I bet that would help you betty. 34 pounds!!!!!!!!! WOW that is fantastic!!!!!!!!! You have been holding out on us sister betty!!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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SoftTouch
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
I thought you were talking about someone getting a "word" from God that contradicted the Bible.
That's what I was thinking as well. That or creating doctrines from twisted scripture - making more of them then what is said or meant (as in the original article here). I understand that the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth and reveals things to us, but those things will never contradict what's written in the Bible.
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
On a side note please say a prayer for me. I lost my balance today and fell and hit the wall and my desk. That was this morning and now I am begining to feel the pain in my right arm and shoulder when I hit the wall and my left arm where I hit my desk. I am having issues lately with keeping my balance and this is the 2nd fall I have had in three weeks.
betty
Ouch Sis I'll keep you in my prayers as well. Do Be Careful! Do you use your cain in the house? If not, it might not be a bad idea given the circumstances. It might be a 'pain' but it's less of a pain then what could happen from a really bad fall I'm Really Glad you weren't seriously hurt! ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
Ever since I started having issues with arthritis I have to be careful that I don't put to much weight on my right hip or I have a tendency to get off balance and fall. It just seems like my hip is weaker lately which is totally unacceptable cause I have been walking more and lost 34 pounds, in the last three months. You think my hip would be happier. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
But don't think I am taking credit for this, God has been helping me with that.
Seriously, I appreciate your prayers. I took some ibrophan and I feel a little better and still plan to go to Bible Study.
God bless you, Linda. I think of you and pray for you, often.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
That is scary Betty! Do you have an ear infection or something that you dont know about going on with your ears or sinuses that could be throwing your balance off? I will pray. Please keep us posted and dont let it go if you might have seriously injured yourself you need to get to the doc.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
Sorry Aaron and Linda,
I was confused. I thought you were talking about someone getting a "word" from God that contradicted the Bible. Now I understand. You are right about the witnesses; we used to wonder how people could see that all over the world.
Sorry about the misunderstanding.
On a side note please say a prayer for me. I lost my balance today and fell and hit the wall and my desk. That was this morning and now I am begining to feel the pain in my right arm and shoulder when I hit the wall and my left arm where I hit my desk. I am having issues lately with keeping my balance and this is the 2nd fall I have had in three weeks.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
But think about this Betty.
There is not one word in the bible about satalite technology and yet today we believe that it is by satalite that the whole world will witness the 2 dead witnesses 3 days on the ground dead in Jerusalem.
Is that contradicting the Bible? No. Is it in the Bible? No. what then? The spirit gives us to understand the Bible.
The Bible does not tell you it is wrong of Joyce Meyer to stand and ask for you to open your checkbook and send her money. But the Spirit does cause us to discern that when we read about the providing of needs to the local body and "make merchandise" of the saints is explained by the Spirit though there is not one word of books and tapes and the comptetition among evangelists for the pocketbooks of saints in the Bible, by the Spirit you can see that people - saints have become what the popular TV so called Bible teacher is brokering.
We are not to esteem men above what is written. We are not to say God said what HE did not say, but "go beyond what is written?" if the Spirit did not take us beyond what is written, we would not be able to apply to our lives today scriptural principle that was written 6k years ago.
It is because the Spirit leads us to think beyond what is written not above... but beyond, that we can see that the ark is a picture of Jesus and the Gospel is in the story of Noah or that we can understand that the feasts prophesy of Christ... etc.
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Aaron
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Aaron,
So you are saying the Holy Spirit will contrdict the Bible?
betty
Of course not, Grandma.
Aaron
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RedeemTheTime
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posted
SoftTouch...great article, thanks for posting it. It does seem to be the way it is in general doesn't it? Even here...Look at the areas on here that get the most attention, and it is not down the page where there is prayer,praise and evangelism topics. We do need to be fulfilling God's purpose for our lives irregardless of our circumstances and be ready always to give an answer an indeed go out of our way to give the gospel out. That should be our main focus. Thanks again for the article!
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
Aaron,
So you are saying the Holy Spirit will contrdict the Bible?
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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Aaron
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
quote:
At the time of this writing to the Thessalonians the whole of the Bible had not been completed and put together. The Bible is our Written Authority given by God (God Breathed) and I’m certain that the Lord made sure that he included everything we need in it:
[QUOTE]2 Timothy 3: 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Yes, Jesus IS The Word and IS God and he does still speak to men today, but HE is not the only one who speaks to men… The enemy also likes to present himself as being of God and that’s when we need to take everything we hear back to God’s Written Word (The Holy Bible) to ‘see if it be so.’ Jesus/The Holy Spirit will not speak something that is contrary to HIS Written Word. We must be Beareans (sp?) and God gave us His Written Word so we could be.
But the Bible makes no claim that it is the final authority. In fact it says another, living, being has all authority.
Aaron
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
God's Holy Word should be the authority on anything we hear spoken to us. If we hear a voice that is contrary to the Bible we should reject it as the voice of the devil. That idiot in Waco, Texas told his people that God told him that all the women should get pregnant my him, obviously this was contrary to the Bible and the Bible's teaching on adultery.
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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SoftTouch
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aaron:
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold to the traditions which you have been taught, whether by [spoken] word, or our epistle.
Since the spoken teachings were not written in an epistle (and therefore extra-Biblical) should we conclude that they lacked the "Word of God" power to affect the spiritual well-being of the Thessalonian brothers? If so, then Paul's instruction to "hold to them" is egregious at best.
At the time of this writing to the Thessalonians the whole of the Bible had not been completed and put together. The Bible is our Written Authority given by God (God Breathed) and I’m certain that the Lord made sure that he included everything we need in it:
quote:
2 Timothy 3: 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Yes, Jesus IS The Word and IS God and he does still speak to men today, but HE is not the only one who speaks to men… The enemy also likes to present himself as being of God and that’s when we need to take everything we hear back to God’s Written Word (The Holy Bible) to ‘see if it be so.’ Jesus/The Holy Spirit will not speak something that is contrary to HIS Written Word. We must be Beareans (sp?) and God gave us His Written Word so we could be.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Aaron
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Well, if Christ is "the Word" then I agree. He has given all things to the Spirit to give to men.
If the Bible is "the Word" then I do not agree.
To note:
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold to the traditions which you have been taught, whether by [spoken] word, or our epistle.
Since the spoken teachings were not written in an epistle (and therefore extra-Biblical) should we conclude that they lacked the "Word of God" power to affect the spiritual well-being of the Thessalonian brothers? If so, then Paul's instruction to "hold to them" is egregious at best.
Aaron
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
Dear SoftTouch, I don't necessarily require an answer, but regarding a part of the article (which was good, BTW): quote:
Therefore we can conclude that all believers in Christ must submit to the absolute authority of the Word in all matters of faith and practice. Our final authority is the Scriptures and everything we believe and do must be laid down on the anvil of God's Word and tested (Jer. 23:29).
I do think that it's possible to, after experience and practice, to hear directly from the LORD through the Holy Spirit:
1 John 2:27
But the anointing which you have received of Him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in Him.
What the Holy Spirit will teach will of course line up with what the Word of God says. But I'm just pointing out that the Word is "not the only Authority" in the life of a Christian, as seemed somewhat implied in the above quoted portion.
Thanks for sharing, SoftTouch.
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
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Dear SoftTouch, I don't necessarily require an answer, but regarding a part of the article (which was good, BTW): quote:
Therefore we can conclude that all believers in Christ must submit to the absolute authority of the Word in all matters of faith and practice. Our final authority is the Scriptures and everything we believe and do must be laid down on the anvil of God's Word and tested (Jer. 23:29).
I do think that it's possible to, after experience and practice, to hear directly from the LORD through the Holy Spirit:
1 John 2:27
But the anointing which you have received of Him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in Him.
What the Holy Spirit will teach will of course line up with what the Word of God says. But I'm just pointing out that the Word is "not the only Authority" in the life of a Christian, as seemed somewhat implied in the above quoted portion.
Thanks for sharing, SoftTouch.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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Third Wave NeoPragmatism
Christianity's New White Witchcraft?
by Sandy Simpson, 8/00
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Apologetics Premise:
The apologetics premise I am using, indeed the apologetics premise all true believers in Christ use, is the Word of God, the Scriptures, sola Scriptura. The authority of Scriptures in the life of the believer cannot be superseded by anything else. Not by words of prophecy, not by signs and wonders, not by experience, and certainly not by pragmatic "How To" manuals.
Christians are clearly commanded to follow the example of Paul and Apollos in not going beyond the written revelation of Scripture.
1 Cor. 4:6 Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
The Word, who is Jesus Christ incarnate, is our authority in this age, as the prophets were in ages past.
Heb. 1:1-2 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
Jesus, Himself is the Word.
Jn 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
Yet as an example for us Jesus Christ used the Scriptures to rebuke Satan three times when He was tempted in the wilderness, thereby dispelling any arguments against the authority of the written Word of God.
Mt. 4:4,6,10 Jesus answered, "It is written: `Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'" ... "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "`He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'" ... Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'"
Therefore we can conclude that all believers in Christ must submit to the absolute authority of the Word in all matters of faith and practice. Our final authority is the Scriptures and everything we believe and do must be laid down on the anvil of God's Word and tested (Jer. 23:29). We are not to just make up doctrines (1 Tim. 6:3-5) or bring strange fire before the Lord our God (Lev. 10:1), but are to abide by His commands (1 Jon. 2:3) and submit to Him in obedience (Heb. 5:8-10). The teaching and examples in Scripture, the Word and the Testimony (Is. 8:20), must be followed. Anything that adds to or takes away from Scripture (Rev. 22:18-19) must be abandoned because there are dire consequences from going beyond what is written. The Bible is our guard and guide. True believers do not twist or distort the Word of God for their own purposes.
2 Cor. 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
This is the premise for this article. Every new pragmatic teaching mentioned, and there are countless others we could cite, will be compared to the Word of God. It will be demonstrated that the new Third Wave pragmatism is not only going beyond what is written, but has much in common with sorcery and witchcraft, which the Word of God expressly forbids.
"How To" Pray Deliverance Prayers - C. Peter Wagner, et al
These kinds of prayers binding demons, wiping out past memories, instantaneously eliminating bondage to addictions, healing of memories, etc. have become popular in recent times. Entire seminars are built around teaching people how to pray some kind of "effective" prayer to get the desired result they want and think is appropriate for their lives. Of course, as luck would have it, seminars, books, and tapes generate lots of money too. There is nothing wrong with model prayers, as long as they remain biblical. Jesus Christ gave us probably the ultimate model prayer in what is called the "Lord's Prayer" but should more properly be called the "Disciples Prayer".
Matt. 6: 9-13 "This, then, is how you should pray: "`Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.'
There are also many types of prayers taught and demonstrated in the Word. Here is a list of some of them: Pray for the people of your nation (Num 21:7) Pray for your city (Jer 29:7) Pray for peace in Jerusalem (Ps 122:6) Pray for your persecutors (Mat 5:43-44; Luke 6:28) Pray for children (Mat 19:13) Pray for escape from judgment (Luke 21:36) Pray you will not fall into temptation (Luke 22:40) Pray for Christians (Job 17:9; 1 Thes 5:25; Heb 13:18) Pray for boldness in proclaiming the gospel and for God to do miracles in people's lives (Acts 4:29-31) Pray all the time, be alert, pray for the saints (Eph 6:18) Pray for fearless preaching (Eph 6:20) Pray to be filled with the knowledge of His will (Col 1:9) Pray for open doors for the gospel (Col 4:3) Pray that the Word of God may be glorified (2 Thes 3:1) Pray for deliverance from evil men (2 Thes 3:2) Pray for everyone, kings, authorities, peace, quiet, godliness, holiness (1 Tim 2:1,2) Pray for life for dead sinners (1 John 5:16)
These are all Scriptural prayers. However, when prayers are given in books, seminars, articles and tapes that (1) guarantee a certain result (2) claim to empower the one who prays them to be able to create the reality of their request with their words (3) order God to fill a request by "commanding", "summoning" or invoking the names of God ... these types of prayers are not consistent with the Word of God. Guaranteeing a result based on commanding God by speaking certain words of power is clearly sorcery and not Christianity. This is the "force of faith" false doctrine of the Word-Faith Movement through people like Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn and numerous others featured regularly on Trinity Broadcasting Network.
But the Bible is clear that God Himself did not use some mythical "force of faith" to create the world but did so by His word (1 Pet. 3:5), His power (Is. 20:46), and by His will (Rev. 4:11). We do not command God but we may ask, seek and knock (Matt. 7:7) if we do so according to His will (1 Jn. 5:14) as long as His words remain in us (John 15:7). We do not believe in ordering God to do our bidding like Balaam was hoping to do on behalf of Balak (Num. 22:8, 2 Pet. 2:15, Jude 1:11). That is sorcery, one of the sins for which Balaam was judged, and is something that God strictly forbids (Duet. 18:10, Gal. 5:19-21). We always pray "Thy will be done" just as Jesus, John, David, Peter, Paul, James and even the Holy Spirit did (Matt. 6;10,26:42; Luke 11:2; 1 John 2:17,5:14,15; Ps. 40:8; Heb. 10:7; Rom. 8;27; 1 Pet. 3:17; Col. 1:9; James 4:13-16).
"How To" Heal - Happy Hunters, et al
There are so many seminars and materials out there on steps to take in healing people today. It is interesting that all these materials go well beyond the simple instructions of James.
Jas 5:14-15 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.
Jesus also went out of His way to demonstrate a lack of pragmatism in the accounts of Him healing people. The fact of the matter is, He rarely healed anyone the same way twice! If there were some kind of magical formula, some format, some incantation we needed to use, surely Jesus would have done it over and over again so we could learn from Him. But Jesus did not. Let's look to see if there is any "method" Jesus used that will work for us today if we just parrot His actions, or say His exact words. We'll just examine one problem ... blindness.
Blind People Healed By Jesus
Verse(s) Action Words said Matt. 9:27-30 Touched their eyes "According to your faith will it be done for you" Matt. 15:30 Laid at Jesus feet None Matt. 20:30-34 Touched their eyes No words recorded during or after healing Matt. 8;22-26 Spat on eyes, touched eyes twice "Do you see anything?" - "Don't go into the village." Mark 10:46-52 None "Go, your faith has healed you." John 9:1-7 Spat on ground, made mud, put "While I am in the world, I am the light of the world." it in the man's eyes, told him to wash in Pool of Siloam
Is there any pragmatic method in the way Jesus healed blindness? Did Jesus repeat any magical secret incantations? Is there a pattern here we are supposed to follow as Christians, assuming the gift of healing is still active today? (God obviously heals people sovereignly, but I have my questions about "faith healers") If what Jesus did is supposed to be a manual for healing the blind, He sure made the method very obscure. Could this be because there is no method? Jesus is God. He can heal anyone any way. Jesus needs no words or actions to heal. As a man He was simply living in obedience to the will of the Father. I do believe that His actions in healing the blind as well as all his other healings are clear on one point. There is no pragmatic method. Any healing from God is based purely on the will of God.
Today, as followers of Christ, we can anoint the sick with oil and pray for their healing. It is up to God whether He will choose to heal or allow sickness to continue for His own purposes. And lest you think that being sick cannot be in the will of God, consider that people in Galatia were saved because God allowed Paul to continue in sickness.
Gal. 4:13-14 As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you. Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself.
The Word of God is a complete manual on healing. It is also a complete manual on enduring trials.
James 1:2-4 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. Heb. 12:7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?
Throw away your healing manuals, your Christian spell books, your conference tapes filled with the teachings of men and go back to the Word of God! Otherwise, be prepared to face the consequences of doing what you want to do and have to hear the rebuke of the Lord at the end.
Matt. 7:22-23 Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
"How To" Be Delivered - Cleansing Stream
Some excellent articles have been written showing the unbiblical teachings of the newest wind of doctrine to hit the "Church" called "Cleansing Stream". Read http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/nextgnostic.htm#stream The Cleansing Stream - Warning! Contaminated Water! by Tom Launder, 8/00. Also please read http://www.letusreason.org/curren21.htm Is Jesus Cleansing His Church With "Cleansing Stream"? by Mike Oppenheimer, 8/00
What I want to bring out about "Cleansing Stream" is that this course seems to be upstaging and even usurping the power of the Gospel message.
Rom. 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
Everyone who truly believes on the Lord Jesus Christ is fully delivered from the law of sin when they believe.
Rom. 8:1-2 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
We then must continue in the faith, standing firm and putting on the armor of God against the devil's schemes.
Eph. 6:11-18 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled round your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
Once we have placed our full trust and faith in Jesus Christ to save us by grace alone, we must stand firm in that faith because the enemy will continue to attack us. Satan can and does attack Christians and we will never be free of those attacks and his temptations as long as we are living in this body. But we are free from sin because of the imputed righteousness of Christ when we stand in faith. We need to "put on" or clothe ourselves in that faith, truth, righteousness, the gospel of peace, the Word, in prayer always. The issue is one of faith, not of binding Satan or getting rid of any possibility of demonization. Like it or not the enemy will be with us until he is bound by the Lord Jesus Christ during His earthly millennial reign for a thousand years and finally done away with for good on judgment day.
Satan bothered Paul throughout his ministry (2 Cor. 2:7, 1 Thes. 2:18). He can bother believers and non-believers alike. The extent to which he can do so is a matter of debate, but consider these passages of Scripture that show that believers can be troubled in diverse ways by the enemy.
Job 1:8-9; 2:3; 2:7; 1 Sam. 16:14-16, 18:10, 19:9; Matt. 15:22-28; Matt. 16:22-23; Mark 1:23; Luke 9:52-56; Luke 13:11-16; John 6:70-71, 13:27; Acts 5:1-11; Acts 8:9-24; 1 Cor 5:1-5; 1 Cor. 10:12-14; 2 Cor 2:10-11; 2 Cor. 11:3-4; 2 Cor. 12:7; Gal. 3:1; Eph. 4:25-27; 1 Thes. 2:18; 1 Tim. 1:19-20; 1 Tim. 3:6-7; 1 Tim. 4:1-2; 2 Tim. 2:24-26; 1 Pet. 5:8-9
The point is that, though a Christian can be attacked by the enemy, it does not mean he can be defeated if he stands in faith. Nothing can defeat those who stand in faith!
1 Pet. 1:3-5 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade-- kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
We cannot bind Satan. Only Christ can do that when He returns. Demons can be cast out of people, but we can never be completely free from His attacks in this life. Temptations and trials are allowed by God to build us up in our faith, to develop perseverance.
James 1:2-4 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
The issue is not some kind of permanent deliverance from the temptations and attacks of the enemy. Sometimes his attacks are tests of our faith and God can turn them around to our ultimate good in Christ! The bottom line issue is whether or not we will stand in faith. Some will and some will not. The only way to take oneself out from under the protection of God is to turn away and follow the enemy, to shrink back and be destroyed, to not hold on to faith and be shipwrecked.
1 Tim. 5:15 Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan. Heb 10:39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved. 1Ti 1:19 holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith.
Faith is the issue, not permanent deliverance from the schemes of the evil one. We can always pray for deliverance from evil (Mt. 6:13) but that does not guarantee that we will be delivered because sometimes God has an agenda for the deliverance of others through our sufferings, or perhaps our spiritual deliverance through persecution, or some other plan entirely through trials and attacks of the enemy (Job 1:21, 2 Cor. 12:7). Through it all we are simply called to place our faith and our fate in God's hands. Ultimately that kind of trust pays off because no one, not even the enemy, can snatch a person from the hand of God (John 10:28).
Again we find that we need no other manual than the Word of God with regard to salvation or deliverance from evil. Methods of deliverance, if not based on the Word and the Testimony, are not only useless, they can be dangerous faith destroyers.
"How To" Cast Out Demons - Bob Larson, et al
Casting out of demons is clearly not based on the exactitude of the words used, information gleaned from interviewing demonized individuals, or certain special techniques. It is true that demons only recognize one name under heaven. That name is Jesus Christ (Phil. 2:10). Even the angels do not dare rebuke the enemy, but rather say "The Lord rebuke you" (Jude 1:9). But it is not even the use of the name Jesus Christ that gets demons to quit demonizing an individual. The real power is in the relationship of the person to Jesus Christ who has all power to send demons where He wills, not in someone's use of the name(s) of the Lord.
Acts 19:15 One day the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?"
There are no methods, no human devices, no formulas that can substitute for a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. The seven sons of Sceva found that out pretty quickly. Simon Magus also found that out when he wanted the "ability" to impart the Holy Spirit and do signs and wonders. His heart was not right with the Lord (Acts 8:21). He was lacking the relationship.
Jesus also did not cast out demons using any standard technique or mystical words. One time he asked for a name from a demonized person, not because He did not know the demon's name but because He was exposing that there was more than one demon in the man (Mark 3:9). He told another demon to come out and never to return (Mark 9:25). He told some to be quiet (Luke 4:35). The disciples never used techniques and methods but simply said "In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out ..." (Acts 16:18). Again, this was not a function of the words but of their relationship to the One who has the power, Jesus Christ. There are dire consequences for those who think that words alone will protect them without a relationship to Jesus Christ (Acts 19:13-16). It is very dangerous to attempt to cast out demons based on the methods of people like Bob Larson. Pragmatism is no substitute for relationship, and relationship is the only thing that matters.
"How To" Claim Wealth And Health - Word-Faith Movement
Nothing is more despicable than the "name it and claim it" Prosperity doctrines that have made a home in many churches in this decade. The claims that Jesus Christ was rich, Judas was handling large sums of money, and that every Christian should therefore be well-to-do are simply not to be found in Scripture and are ludicrous beyond belief.
Excuse me while I lapse into a bit of sarcasm on this subject ...
Whatever happened to selling everything and following Jesus? (Mark 10:21) Or was that just advice for one man and, if so, why him and not the rest of us? I guess it doesn't matter that the disciples were actually recorded as being poor (Mark 6:8) and that Jesus was poor and homeless (Matt. 8:20). Apparently today we need not worry that for a rich man it is, for all intents and purposes, impossible to enter the kingdom of heaven without a miracle of God (Matt. 19:24). We live in New Testament times so none of those nasty things Jesus said about choosing which master to serve apply to us. The thought that the Apostles were self-supporting, not making money from their ministry (no book sales, videos, expensive seminars) is just so archaic (2 Thes. 3:7-8). If those silly Apostles hadn't wasted their time making negative declarations like the kind they did they probably would never have been persecuted and martyred and the Church would have grown a lot faster. Good thing we have the new "super-apostles" to let us in on these better ways of doing things. I'm so glad we no longer need to worry about being the "servant of all" to be on top of the Christian food chain (Mark 9:35). Big hair accompanied by a huge ego works a lot better on TV. Times have changed. The old Gospel is out, the new gospel is in. Why read the Bible at all?
Now that I am done with my tirade, there is the other demonic part of the "name it and claim it" that is basically outright sorcery. Taking a page directly from witchcraft books, Christians today are being told to just say what you want and if you believe it enough you can create reality with your words. You are a "little god" say people like Benny Hinn, so you too can use the force of faith to create just like God did when He created you. The problem with this new doctrine is that it runs smack dab into the problem of submission to the will of God (Matt. 6:10, 26:42). As previously discussed, we may ask, seek, knock but always in His will and as a result of His words remaining in us and our faith not wavering (James 4:3, 1 Jn. 5;14, Jn. 15:7, Mark 11:24). One of the major tenants of witchcraft for centuries has been the search for "secret knowledge" and the speaking of magical words which purport to create reality. This doctrine of "name it and claim it" is nothing more than white witchcraft in Christian garb. We can name it, but we only claim it if God wills. Don't you think that is actually a better arrangement anyway? How many times have you wanted something that turned out to not be what you really needed? I rest my case.
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(c) 2000 Sandy Simpson This article can be freely copied and distributed as long as the content is not changed in any way.
Souce: http://www.cephasministry.com/apostles_third_wave_witchcraft.html
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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