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Topic: Jesus Died Spiritually = JDS = doctrines of devils
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
Amen Yahsway and Watcher!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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yahsway
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Member # 3738
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posted
I do not think KC is saying anyone will go to hell because they do not believe as he does.
I believe the statement he made means that Jesus did not pay it all (the full price for redeemtion) on the cross, and that it also took His going to hell (His spirit going to hell) to pay the full price. And if He did not go to hell spiritually, then we would have to. I believe that is what KC is trying to say.
I do disagree with this, as I believe He paid it all on the cross. I know he said "Father, into Thy hands I committ My Spirit. I do not think Jesus had to do anything more than what He did on the cross. He himself also said "It is finished"
Apparantly KC does not believe it was finished on the cross , but that Jesus also had to go suffer in hell.
But it is true as Watcher said that Satan is not yet in hell, but one day he will be.
I do not believe he "set the captives free" from Hell, but moved Paradise to Heaven. Since He (Jesus) is the only way to the Father in heaven, He moved Paradise to heaven.
Remember the story of Lazarus and the rich man? There was a big gulf between them. And Lazarus was in Abrahams bossom, not the Fathers. So there was a paradise that held the OT saints and a hell that held others.
Yeshua did not go to Hell, but to Paradise just as he told the thief on the cross that He would be with Him there.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Jesus Died Spiritually = JDS = doctrines of devils
Kenneth Copeland : "I can't understand Christians that refuse to believe that Jesus went to hell. I want to tell you something if he didn't go, your going to have to." (The Christian Channel Europe "Believer's Voice of Victory" [May 1998)
JDS? This is a new one. I thought you called them WOF? Obviously you are not familiar enough with Kenneth Copeland to know that he would not preach that someone is going to hell because they don't believe as he does. I gave concrete evidence that such a remark by Joyce Meyer was twisted, so has this one. An absolutely ridiculous accusation ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Watcher
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Member # 3589
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Nice post SoftTouch, ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
Did Christ die spiritually? The answer is no! At least not in the way the leaders of this JDS movement teach. The Bible does not teach that Jesus died spiritually. As a matter of fact, the Bible teaches just the opposite.
In I Peter 3:18, Peter states that Christ was "Put to death in the flesh, but quickened (made alive) by the Spirit." This does not mean that He was once dead spiritually and now He is alive spiritually, or by the Spirit.
If what the Word-Faith teachers claim regarding the atonement of Christ is true, then one will have to rewrite the words of Christ on the cross.
For instance, instead of saying "It is finished," Christ should have explained Himself by saying, "I'm not talking about the plan of salvation, but I'm talking about the Abrahamic covenant."
Instead of Christ saying to the thief on the cross, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise," He should have said, "Today you will be with Me suffering in hell."
Instead of saying, "Father, into Thy hands I commend My spirit," He should have said, "Satan, into your hands I commend My spirit."
There is still one more problem with this movement's teaching that Jesus defeated Satan in hell: Satan is not in hell.
One day he will be!
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Watcher
Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house. He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Proverbs 17:13,15
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WhiteEagle
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Member # 3728
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Rev 1:5 "From Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth."
Rev 1:18 "and the Living One, I was dead, but look - I am Alive forever and ever, and I hold the Keys of death and Hades."
Matthew 12:40 "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and nights in the heart of the earth."
Ephesians 4:8-10 "Wherefore he said, when He ascended up on high, he led captivity captive(or a multitude of captives), and gave gifts unto men. Now that He ascended, what is it, but that He also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that He might fill all things."
Isaiah 53:10 " Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him: he hath put him to grief: when thou shall make his soul and offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand."
There are other verses that refer to Christ's suffering. He is the spotless Lamb and His blood was shead for our sins, as He alone was sinless.
All I know is that Christ did descend into Hell and he set the Old Testament saints free to be able to enter into heaven. He cast Satan down to earth. He took the keys of death and hell.
I don't believe Satan was able to torment Christ after His death. The Blood was accepted by the Holy One Most High and Satan has nothing. Jesus went to Hell and openly spoiled Satan's power and authority.
Satan did have Christ to torment while He was dying on the cross, and God turned His back on the Lamb as He became the Sinbearer for all the world.
Satan thought he had it made until Jesus' die physically, and then Satan's kingdom and power was broken and spoiled.
God raised Christ from the dead. God's Holy one did not see corruption and his soul was not left in hell.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
(I did not write the following. I took the following from a couple of articles to create this post)
Jesus Died Spiritually = JDS = doctrines of devils
The JDS doctrine, abbreviated for Jesus Died Spiritually, teaches simply that our Lord Jesus Christ had to die spiritually in hell in order to fully and completely redeem mankind from our sin and its effect, namely death. And then He had to be reborn, literally a born again man. Now in addition to this there are other facets to the JDS theology. For instance, JDS teaches that Christ had to take upon Himself the nature of Satan while He hung on the cross. JDS teaches that the spirit of Jesus, after His physical death on the cross, had to go to hell and literally suffer and be tormented by Satan himself and demons for the 3 days and 3 nights that He was there in hell. Then the spirit of Jesus spiritually dies after all of this suffering at the hands of Satan and his demons and then God breathes new life into the dead spirit of our Lord and then our Lord is raised from the grave. This is the teaching of JDS doctrine.
quote:
[1] But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
[2] And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
[3] And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. - 2 Peter 2:1-3
[18] (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
[19] Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) - Philippians 3:18,19
Here are just Some examples:
Kenneth Copeland : "I can't understand Christians that refuse to believe that Jesus went to hell. I want to tell you something if he didn't go, your going to have to." (The Christian Channel Europe "Believer's Voice of Victory" [May 1998)
Frederick K.C. Price : "Do you think that the punishment for our sin was to die on a cross? If that were the case, the two thieves could have paid your price. No, the punishment was to go into hell itself and to serve time in hell separated from God. . . . Satan and all the demons of hell thought that they had Him bound. And they threw a net over Jesus and they dragged Him down to the very pit of hell itself to serve our sentence." (Ever Increasing Faith Messenger [June 1980], 7; quoted in D.R. McConnell, A Different Gospel [Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1988], 120.)
E.W. Kenyon : "Jesus was conceived without sin. His body was not mortal. His body did not become mortal until the Father laid our sin nature upon Him when He hung on the cross. The moment that He became sin, His body became mortal, only then could He die. When this happened. spiritual death, the nature of Satan, took possession of His Spirit....He was to partake of Spiritual Death, the nature of the Adversary. . . .Jesus knew that the moment had come, and He was to he made Sin. He must partake of that dread nature of the Adversary. His body would become mortal. Satan would become His master. . . . He [Jesus] had been lifted up as a serpent. Serpent is Satan. Jesus knew He was going to be lifted up, united with the Adversary." (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne [Lynnwood, WA: Kenyon's Gospel Publishing Society, 1969], 20, 33, 44-45.)
Charles Capps : " If there's any part of hell Jesus did not suffer, you'll have to suffer it. But, thank God, Jesus suffered it all, for you! In the place of the wicked dead, all the demons of hell and Satan rejoiced over the prize. The corridors of hell were filled with joy. 'We've done it! We've captured the Son of God! We'll no longer be in the pit of the damned! The earth and all that is therein is ours! Forever it will be ours!' Rejoicing in hell had never been so great as it was that day. But it was short-lived." (Authority in Three Worlds, 143, emphasis in original.)
Kenneth Copeland : "That Word of the living God went down into that pit of destruction and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life. He began to look like something the devil had never seen before." ("The Price of it All," Believer's Voice of Victory 19, 9 [September 1991]:4.)
Kenneth Copeland : "He [Jesus] was literally being reborn before the devil's very eyes. He began to flex His spiritual muscles. . . .Jesus was born again--the firstborn from the dead the Word calls Him--and He whipped the devil in his own backyard. He took everything he had away from him. He took his keys and his authority away from him." (Ibid., 4-6.)
Joyce Meyers: "During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin...He paid the price there.…no plan was too extreme...Jesus paid on the cross and in hell….God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, “Let Him go.” Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus...He was resurrected from the dead -- the first born-again man" (The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make: A Complete And Thorough Understanding Of What It Means To Be Born Again, 1991, pages 35-36, Joyce Meyer)
The Truth from God’s Holy Word:
[18] Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
[19] But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
[20] Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
[21] Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. - I Peter 1:18-21
[13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
[14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
[15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
- Eph. 2:13-15
[24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. - Heb. 12:24
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. - Heb. 10:10
[8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[10] For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. - Romans 5:8-10
[19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
[20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the New Testament in my blood, which is shed for you. - Luke 22:19,20
JDS theology goes against the reason and doctrine of the communion of our Lord. The above scriptures clearly and plainly show that our justification and our redemption was purchased with the shed blood of Jesus Christ. The communion service is a memorial service for our Lord by which we remember that it was His shed blood which paid the price for the sins of mankind. It was the physical flesh body of our Lord Jesus which was broken and reconciled mankind back to our Holy, Heavenly Father. Nowhere in the above scripture is there even any hint that Jesus had to die spiritually to fully and completely pay the price for the sins of mankind. A spirit has no blood in it to give, therefore Jesus had to become a flesh and blood man in order to fulfill His work as the sacrificial Lamb of God by shedding His sinless blood. If we believe and teach the JDS theology we mock our Lords’ sacrifice and our memorial to Him in the communion service. We are in truth as Paul writes to the Philippians, enemies of the cross.
Did Christ take on Satans’ nature? Did the divine light of Christ go out as He took on Satans’ nature in His Spirit on the cross?
[5] This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. - I John 1:5
[ 58] Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. - John 8:58
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:1-5
[9] That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
[10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
[11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. - John 1:9-14
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and forever. - Heb. 13:8
[18] Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
[19] But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
[20] Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
[21] Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. - I Peter 1:18-21
These verses of scripture show that Jesus is the Light and He is unchangeable. Peter clearly tells us that mankind was not redeemed with corruptible things. If Jesus took on the nature of Satan on the cross then He became corrupted and therefore could not logically redeem mankind. He then failed in His work of saving mankind from sin and death. Furthermore, if such a drastic change occurred in the nature of Jesus, then Jesus is not the same yesterday, today and forever. So once again we see the blatant fault and heresy of the JDS doctrine.
[21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. - 2 Cor. 5:21
[3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: - Rom. 8:3
[24] Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1 Peter 2:24
Jesus bore Our sin in His flesh body but not His Spirit. He did not obtain a sinful nature or the nature of Satan in His spirit. He was sent to earth in human flesh form so that the problem and end result of sin could be justifiably judged by a Holy God in the flesh on the cross. Jesus was the sacrificial lamb of God who shed His natural sinless blood for sinful mankind. Jesus became the bearer of sin in His flesh, His natural body, so that His natural body would take the judgment, the justified condemnation for sin on the cross. Jesus never had sin in His Spirit. Jesus did not die a spiritual death but a natural death. Jesus did not pay the penalty of sin in His Spirit in hell nor in the garden of Gethsemane. He did not purchase our redemption by suffering and dying in hell. Jesus bought our redemption, our salvation by paying the penalty for sin in His flesh on the cross, shedding His sinless blood.
[1]Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
[2]By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[3]For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
[4]And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 1 Corinthians 15
[19]For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
[20]And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
[21]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
[22]In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: Colossians 1:19-22
[30]When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. John 19:30
Jesus taught that His death and shed blood was sufficient for the atonement of our sins. When Jesus said "It is finished" He was teaching an absolute truth that the payment for sin was paid in full. The Greek of "It is finished" is "tetelestai" which was a common way of saying dept paid in full, it is done.
If a teacher is teaching that Jesus had to die “Spiritually” or we would not be saved, or that he had to be “Tortured and Born Again in Hell” then that teacher is a False Teacher. The Bible is CLEAR… It is the Shed Blood of Christ that makes atonement for our Sins.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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