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Author
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Topic: DONNIE SWAGGERT BLASTS OSTEEN
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hardcore
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Member # 4492
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by JAVA:
Refiman, we are taught by scripture to rebuke and chastise those that would decieve others in the faith. Osteen is "lukewarm".....
![[dance]](graemlins/dance1.gif)
A girlfriend of mine was telling me that she's been reading the letters to the seven churches. I wonder if Osteen has ever read them.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
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JAVA
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Member # 4576
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posted
Refiman, we are taught by scripture to rebuke and chastise those that would decieve others in the faith. Osteen is "lukewarm".....
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JAVA, "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose."
Posts: 147 | From: Columbia South Carolina | Registered: Apr 2005
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
From the Catholic Cathechism:
IV. THE SACRAMENTS OF SALVATION
1127 Celebrated worthily in faith, the sacraments confer the grace that they signify.48 They are efficacious because in them Christ himself is at work: it is he who baptizes, he who acts in his sacraments in order to communicate the grace that each sacrament signifies. The Father always hears the prayer of his Son's Church which, in the epiclesis of each sacrament, expresses her faith in the power of the Spirit. As fire transforms into itself everything it touches, so the Holy Spirit transforms into the divine life whatever is subjected to his power.
1128 This is the meaning of the Church's affirmation49 that the sacraments act ex opere operato (literally: "by the very fact of the action's being performed"), i.e., by virtue of the saving work of Christ, accomplished once for all. It follows that "the sacrament is not wrought by the righteousness of either the celebrant or the recipient, but by the power of God."50 From the moment that a sacrament is celebrated in accordance with the intention of the Church, the power of Christ and his Spirit acts in and through it, independently of the personal holiness of the minister. Nevertheless, the fruits of the sacraments also depend on the disposition of the one who receives them.
1129 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.51 "Sacramental grace" is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament. The Spirit heals and transforms those who receive him by conforming them to the Son of God. The fruit of the sacramental life is that the Spirit of adoption makes the faithful partakers in the divine nature52 by uniting them in a living union with the only Son, the Savior.
2020 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ. It is granted us through Baptism. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who justifies us. It has for its goal the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life. It is the most excellent work of God's mercy.
From the Council of Trent:
1. CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."
"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" (Rom. 3:20).
B. "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 3:24).
C. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Rom. 3:28).
D. "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3).
E. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1).
F. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Eph. 2:8).
G. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5).
2. CANON 12: "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed"
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"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" John 1:12).
A. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Rom. 3:28).
B. "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3).
C. "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the peoples: for this he did once, when he offered up himself" (Heb. 7:25-27).
D. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day" (2 Tim. 1:12).
3. Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."
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"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3).
A. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1).
4. Canon 23: "lf any one saith, that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the other hand, that he is able, during his whole life, to avoid all sins, even those that are venial,- except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard of the Blessed Virgin; let him be anathema."
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"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him" (John 3:36).
A. "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:40).
B. "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (John 10:28).
C. "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 5:21).
D. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us" (1 John 2:19).
E. "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God" (1 John 5:13).
Canon 24: "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."
. "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal. 3:1-3).
A. "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law" (Gal. 5:1-3).
Canon 30: "If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema."
. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1).
A. "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" (Col. 2:13-14).
Canon 33: "If any one saith, that, by the Catholic doctrine touching Justification, by this holy Synod inset forth in this present decree, the glory of God, or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ are in any way derogated from, and not rather that the truth of our faith, and the glory in fine of God and of Jesus Christ are rendered (more) illustrious; let him be anathema.
. This council declares that if anyone disagrees with it, they are damned.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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I got this from a Catholic site:
What must I do to be saved?
To be saved, you must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31). However, that's not all. Sacred Scripture clearly shows other things you must also do to be saved:
You must endure to the end. Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13.
You must accept the Cross (suffering). Matthew 10:38, Matthew 16:24-25, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:27.
You must be baptized with water. Mark 16:16, Titus 3:5, I Peter 3:20-21.
You must be a member in God's true church. Acts 2:47.
You must confess your sins. James 5:16, I John 1:9.
You must keep the Commandments of God. Matthew 5:19-20, Matthew 7:21.
You must heed the words of St. Peter, the first Pope. Acts 11:13-14, Acts 15:7.
You must eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus Christ. John 6:51-58, I Corinthians 10:16, I Corinthians 11:23-29.
Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to His call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. CCC 1996, John 1:12-18, John 17:3, Romans 8:14-17, 2 Peter 1:3-4.
The only Church that meets all the requirements of Salvation is the Holy Catholic Church.
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As you can see the Catholics have different views then Christian in what is required for salvation.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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refiman
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Member # 4839
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I agree Betty...very much. However, to slam an entire group of believers (after all Catholics qualify because they believe in the Trinity) I feel is wrong. I have friends who are Catholic and they know what it means to be "born again" and that they have to speak it with their tongue and believe it in their heart that Jesus is their salvation, their only hope for life everlasting. True, I understand that many Catholics believe what you say. We know otherwise, praise be to the Lord!
Posts: 10 | From: somewhere in Pa. | Registered: Jul 2005
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refiman
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I live in Central Pa. and yes it is very silly behavior. Yes, JSM (Jimmy Swaggert Ministries) is still around and Jimmy's son is doing a more than fair job preaching. Jimmy still sings and writes good commentary on Bible and I still enjoy him. I believe the Lord has forgiven Jimmy and I have too...these guys, preachers are still men. It saddens me when I see them use the pulpit to slay each other..remember Falwell and his attempt at inheriting PTL and how it backfired on him. He made out to be Jim Bakers friend but had other motives that came out later in the wash. Jessica brought some of this to light as well as Tammy Fay....just a thought.
Regards,
Refiman
Posts: 10 | From: somewhere in Pa. | Registered: Jul 2005
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TEXASGRANDMA
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. Further along in Donnie's dialog he commented on the Catholic religion as being false, I could understand his slam on the Morman's but really the Catholic's too?"
Too many Catholics think that they are going to Heaven not because they accepted Jesus as their Savior but becuase they were baptized as a baby.
I have talked to many Catholics who believe this.
So I can see where Donnie is coming from. I used to wactch his dad but haven't watched him in years. But, I believe he is right when he condemns the Catholic Church as a whole. The is not to say that there are not Catholic Christians. There are also Baptist sinners who feel the same way.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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hardcore
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Member # 4492
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quote:
Originally posted by refiman:
Early this morning I happened to catch Jimmy Swaggert's telecast in which Donnie, his preacher son spent an hour going over the entire transcript from the Larry King show. As many of you know Joel Osteen has been the recipient of much heat over his interview with King. Also, Joel Osteen has made an apology for some of the content in his interview with King. When I saw Donnie jumping around on the set blasting Joel this did not set right with me. I thought it was extemely bad taste and how lame Donnie was in not preaching on another subject, namely the Gospels of Jesus Christ. Maybe when Jimmy Swaggert fell short in less than a Biblical way Donnie feels compelled to be a "Watchdog" of sorts. Further along in Donnie's dialog he commented on the Catholic religion as being false, I could understand his slam on the Morman's but really the Catholic's too? Could it be that Donnie see's a splinter in some other Preachers eye when he has a log in his? I think it is high time Preachers stop battling each other and get along with their true mission, how about you?
Wow. I didn't even know Swaggert was still around, let alone that he had a preacher son on tv. Are you in the south?
My guess is that I would probably agree with Donnie regarding the topics you mention - Osteen, the RCC, Mormans - assuming he's coming from the proper scriptural basis, but I certainly don't condone this behavior. Kind of silly, don't you think?
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refiman
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Early this morning I happened to catch Jimmy Swaggert's telecast in which Donnie, his preacher son spent an hour going over the entire transcript from the Larry King show. As many of you know Joel Osteen has been the recipient of much heat over his interview with King. Also, Joel Osteen has made an apology for some of the content in his interview with King. When I saw Donnie jumping around on the set blasting Joel this did not set right with me. I thought it was extemely bad taste and how lame Donnie was in not preaching on another subject, namely the Gospels of Jesus Christ. Maybe when Jimmy Swaggert fell short in less than a Biblical way Donnie feels compelled to be a "Watchdog" of sorts. Further along in Donnie's dialog he commented on the Catholic religion as being false, I could understand his slam on the Morman's but really the Catholic's too? Could it be that Donnie see's a splinter in some other Preachers eye when he has a log in his? I think it is high time Preachers stop battling each other and get along with their true mission, how about you?
Posts: 10 | From: somewhere in Pa. | Registered: Jul 2005
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