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Author Topic: I thought rick warren was FALSE...
J4Jesus
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*Claps*


Allright!!!!


This is what i'm Talking about!!!


Weeding out this false teaching junk.


I Hate false gospels and teachings and prophecies.

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becauseHElives
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Hello everyone

1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? If the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.


Yeshua said few will be that enter!

The message of the Cross produces lives of disciples that understand and live accordingly.

The purpose driven live is an extension of the Word of Faith groups and the like. (They preach what the Gospel can do for your miserable life! They preach a self center Gospel)

They have learned how to mass produce tares and goats!

The thief on the cross entered Heaven with Yeshua that day because he had been born anew. He was a new creature and Yeshua new it.

The message of the Gospel of Yeshua was my life is now HIS, my will is no longer my own! I have been bought to live for the Kingdom of Yahweh and do HIS will alone.

If you think Yeshua preached a easy believes Salvation, you have not read the Bible, with the Holy Spirit leading and guiding you into all truth.

Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is, not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followed after, is not worthy me.

Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Anyone not preaching the same message as Yeshua preached will be eternally damned.

That what Paul said, not me!

Gal 1:8 But235 though2532, 1437 we,2249 or2228 an angel32 from1537 heaven,3772 preach any other gospel2097 unto you5213 than3844 that3739 which we have preached2097 unto you,5213 let him be2077 accursed.331

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Gramajo320
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Of course God knows exactly who each and every single one of His annoited ministers and also His annoited lay people are and each and everyone of them will most certainly receive their rewards in heaven! No one has ever said that the annoited lay people would not get their rewards in heaven. God keeps His promises to everyone!

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Gramajo320

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SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
It's like my momma told my sister when she worked like a dog behind the scenes as a Pastor's wife, while her husband refused to even help her drag heavy tables upstairs, so she had to do it by herself. (till she ended up in a wheel chair from hurting herself so many times): "It is not always the preachers who will get the great rewards in Heaven, but those quiet ones who work like a dog and get no reward on earth" No, I do not consider me in the group. I am talking about those who scrub the toilets at Church, who take out the trash and such jobs that go unnoticed but have to be done.
Just because someone has Rev in front of their name does not mean they preach the truth.
betty

AMEN to this too! [Smile]

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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by bygrace:
quote:
One thing for absolute certainty is that God knows who His annoited ministers are and He will give them their rewards in heaven as He has promised.


I agree with this Gramajo.

bygrace

I too agree with this [Smile]

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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Believe me; it is not because we enjoy being the kicking post, but because we are called by God to stand up for the truth of His Word. A calling we take serious.


Betty

AMEN SIS!

(Sorry I've been so quiet... I haven't had the time to particiate "the right way" so I thought it best just to keep my mouth shut for the moment [Wink] )

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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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TEXASGRANDMA
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It's like my momma told my sister when she worked like a dog behind the scenes as a Pastor's wife, while her husband refused to even help her drag heavy tables upstairs, so she had to do it by herself. (till she ended up in a wheel chair from hurting herself so many times): "It is not always the preachers who will get the great rewards in Heaven, but those quiet ones who work like a dog and get no reward on earth" No, I do not consider me in the group. I am talking about those who scrub the toilets at Church, who take out the trash and such jobs that go unnoticed but have to be done.
Just because someone has Rev in front of their name does not mean they preach the truth.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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bygrace
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quote:
One thing for absolute certainty is that God knows who His annoited ministers are and He will give them their rewards in heaven as He has promised.


I agree with this Gramajo.

bygrace

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Gramajo320
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One thing for absolute certainty is that God knows who His annoited ministers are and He will give them their rewards in heaven as He has promised.

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Gramajo320

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bygrace
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Carmela,

I do not feel as if I were running down - anyone, more like offering up my experience with this book, and what I have researched and my findings.
This post started out as a question about Rick Warren and his credibilities. I answered.

You say you are not angry but I do sense that you are. I had no intention of angering anyone, but when we speak against a certain things this inevitably happens.
I did post that one should check out who the mentor behind this book was, and check out those beliefs, this apparently was ignored. Or was this done, and you agree with those teachings? If so, then the book is for you.

Because someone is against something that has been found questionable or false in any way, I don't think it is ok to say they cannot voice their opinon on that subject.

My point regarding the Mormons - I do not see how we would all come together on this. If their doctrine is so very contrary, how is it that this book appeals to them?

The Gospel message is diluted in this book, and repentance is not the focus.
In the book, it is stated- "receive and Believe"
I believe that there is more to salvation than this, and many will follow this line of thinking and be deceived into thinking it is easy-believism.

The use of many different versions also is to make his points in whatever the subject of that page is.

The tone of your post is not in love, but born of anger.-although you stated you are not, your words are visably the opposite.
As in the other thread about heresy- that I only read just today, you specifically resorted to demeaning the other members by calling them heresy hunters and saying they were "plagueing" that side of the board, and some have responded there as well.(I emplore you to read them).

my post was specifically in response to the topic query.


I only responded to J4Jesus' post with my own experience and findings.
bygrace

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TEXASGRANDMA
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There are none so blind that those who can see but close their eyes.
There are none so deaf, then those who have the gift of hearing but fill their ears with cotton, lest the truth gets in and they are forced to face the truth head on.
How sad it is to care more about people's feelings then the truth of the Word of God.
Tears will flow like rain when they face God and explain how they saw nothing wrong with watering down and sugar coating God's Word all for the cause of having a larger attendance in Church and more money in the offering plate.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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Gramajo320
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Carmela,

Amen to your posting with which I agree. God bless you.

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Gramajo320

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TEXASGRANDMA
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I think this is actually the place to discuss the book.
hmmmmmmmmm
Bible Study ------------ Bible Study Book

Seems like a great match to me.

I am sorry you are sick and tired of people putting down ministers who are watering down the truth and sugar coated the Gospel. But it is not going to stop. Why? Because the Holy Spirit is moving, causing even the most timid person to speak up about the truth of the Gospel.
Go back and read the Bible about when Jesus live on earth. He may have preached to big crowds, but when He answered questions to the disciples about what the parables meant he did so privately.
God is more interested in the meat of the Gospel then a Church that has large crowds. Churches where the people are not taught the truth about being a child of God, but are taught feel good, prosperity, and let's be happy sermons.
You and your friends can complain all you want about this, but we who are standing for the truth, we will not be persuaded to stop. Believe me; it is not because we enjoy being the kicking post, but because we are called by God to stand up for the truth of His Word. A calling we take serious.


Betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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Caretaker
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It is imperative to study the Word so as to ascertain between truth and what is counterfeit.

http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Foundation/fbcAnalysis.htm


"Real community happens when people know it is safe enough to share their doubts and fears without being judged" (p. 149).

"God warns us over and over not to criticize, compare, or judge each other (Rom. 14:13; James 4:11; Eph. 4:29; Matt. 5:9; James 5:9). When you criticize what another believer is doing in faith and from sincere conviction, you are interfering with God’s business. 'What right do you have to criticize someone else’s servants? Only their Lord can decide if they are doing right’ (Rom. 14: 4 CE V)" (p. 164).

"Paul adds that we must not stand in judgment or look down on other believers whose convictions differ from our own: 'Why, then, criticize your brother’s actions, why try to make him look small? We shall all be judged one day, not by each other’s standards or even our own, but the standards of Christ’ (Rom. 14:10, New Testament in Modern English)" (p. 164).

"Servants think about their work, not what others are doing. They don t compare, criticize, or compete with other servants or ministries ... Competition between God’s servants is illogical for many reasons: We’re all on the same team ... we've been given different assignments" (p. 268).

"When you're busy serving, you don't have time to be critical. Any time spent criticizing others is time that could be spent ministering ... It is not our job to evaluate the Master’s other servants" (p. 268).

Of course, anyone should feel free to share his doubts and fears with other believers and speak his mind, but a truly loving Christian will also "Judge" the doubts, fears, beliefs and teachings of the individual if such are harmful to his spiritual well-being. Likewise, believers are commanded by God Himself to "judge righteous judgment" (Jn. 7:24) and to discern between truth and error, good and evil. Discernment entails righteous judgment. Warren claims believers are not to judge or criticize another believer who is ministering "in faith and from sincere conviction," yet the Bible clearly declares repeatedly that man is capable of being deceived! Self-deception is a real danger among believers today. False teachers are not only "deceiving" others but are "being deceived" themselves (2 Tim. 3:13). Sincerity cannot be the test of truth! Yes, God forbids malicious ill-will and unwarranted criticism among believers, but a child of God is not exempt from inspection and criticism simply because he is a believer or because he is ministering in sincerity. Personal attacks against any person are unbiblical. Yet, God Himself requires analysis and discernment of one's doctrine or teaching. Notice several other quotes by Warren:

"Conflict is usually a sign that the focus has shifted to less important issues, things the Bible calls 'disputable matters’ (Rom. 14:1; 2 Tim. 2:23). When we focus on personalities, preferences, interpretations, styles, or methods, division always happens. But if we concentrate on loving each other and fulfilling God’s purposes, harmony results. Paul pleaded for this: 'Let there be real harmony so there won't be divisions in the church. I plead with you to be of one mind, united in thought and purpose’ (1 Cor. 1:10 NL T)" (p. 162).

"We share the same salvation, the same life, and the same future—factors far more important than any differences we could enumerate" (p. 161).

"Because you were formed to be a part of God’s family and the second purpose of your life on earth is to learn how to love and relate to others, peacemaking is one of the most important skills you can develop" (p. 153).

"But for unity’s sake we must never let differences divide us. We must stay focused on what matters most—learning to love each other as Christ has loved us, and fulfilling God’s five purposes for each of us and his church (pp. 161-162).

"Nothing on earth is more valuable to God than his church. He paid the highest price for it, and he wants it protected, especially from the devastating damage that is caused by division, conflict, and disharmony" (p. 161).

God does love His church and paid the highest price for it, and He does want us to protect it. However, believers do not protect it by clamoring for peace at any price and minimizing important doctrinal differences for the sake of a false unity. According to Warren, God wants His church protected "especially" from damage caused by division, conflict and disharmony. According to the Bible, however, God wants His church protected "especially" from contaminating agents such as false teachings, false teachers and wicked behavior (Acts 20:273 1; Rom. 16:17; 1 Thess. 4:1-3; 2 Thess. 3:6, 14; 1 Tim. 1: 18-20; 2 Tim. 2:16-22; 1 Jn. 4:1-6). The church is protected when believers in the church exercise discernment and judge all teachings, philosophies and programs by the Word of God and subsequently separate from any that conflict with the doctrine of the apostles as given by God Himself.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Carmela
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Bygrace says:
quote:
I do not believe that any book, regardless of its merit should take the place of God's Word.

My question is this...Since when does God need another book to increase His kingdom? Who deemed it necessary to "help the Almighty out" because the original Gospel is just "too much" for the seekers?

Also,
quote:
One red flag to me initially was that the Mormons also embrace this book and the teachings...I have Mormon family members- I can tell you that we don't see eye-to-eye on the Gospel message.
1(Cor.5:6)Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a lttle leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

The book is not being used instead of the bible. There are many times that people will use a book or devotional to help study groups. The bible is also used along with it.

You said Mormons embrace it. Well they are the ones that have the lost book of the bible I was referring to...or so they think. The Josheph Smith version. It can't be compared with someone using it for a bible study.

quote:
My question is this...Since when does God need another book to increase His kingdom? Who deemed it necessary to "help the Almighty out" because the original Gospel is just "too much" for the seekers?
This is bull. No one ever said this book is needed to advance His Kingdom. I'm just so sick and tired of seeing these constant put downs in posts. Not just about a book because I can't defend what I haven't read yet but about many minisitries already. CONSTANTLY putting them down behind their backs doesn't change their ministry at all. When I read those posts, that is where I sense the enemy at work but I don't think you guys even realize it. I am not saying you are not Godly people, but the behavior express is NOT Godly behavior and it causes many believers to leave this board. Here is something one of them said to me:

quote:
In either event, there are plenty of Scriptures which declare that we are to speak the truth in love, that to hide a matter is the choice of kings, that love covers a multitude of sins, that we are to consider our brother as ourselves in love, etc, and many more that declare "evil speaking" to be one of the sins God hates. It is also said that to join hands with the enemy of the people of God is to rebel against God. So how is it then, that these ladies have been given a mission to defame those who claim the Name? Someone is deceived.
If you want to continue running people down it's fine but it DOES NOT belong in the section entitled BIBLE STUDY. No, I'm not yelling or upset but I am quite sick of it myself and almost left the board but I was asked to stay so I decided to stay in Bible Study which is now being plagues and I won't stand for it. Bible Study does NOT mean run everyone down in the process. It's BIBLE STUDIES....I want to learn the BIBlE in this section and I stay away from the other sections so I don't have to read the (what I call) trash.

Sorry HardCore that was my mistake. I misinterpreted it. I thought I wrote in my opinion....

I called the church to ask questions about the book and teaching they are about to do. We have a meeting Sunday morning on it also. As far as I can see the study is about learning to take our focus off of ourselves and on God. We may know this already but there are many in the church that don't and need to be taught. There will be fasting and praying and stuff taught also I believe.

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www.pinecrest.org

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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by Carmela:
My words were a bit twisted here which is fine. However, since I admitted that I have only read a few pages of the book so far I can only give an opinion. I did not say that God's word says....since I'm not even far enough to know. However, I do trust my church but I also have a mind of my own. I typed out the first few pages in this book that I read and I totally agree with it. I didn't promote the entire book, but what I did type was biblical to me. It was about taking our focus off ourselves and on to God. That is a definite biblical statement.

My church is not using this another bible. It isn't taught in church either. However, they do feel there are some good lessons we can learn in this book. Why someone would suggest it's being used as a type of "lost bible" is beyond me. The book doesn't claim that like the mormon book does.

I'm not sure how your words were twisted Carmela. Anyway, I was really commenting on the content of the book being discussed, not your words. Please don't take offense. None was intended.

I am curious to know which lessons it is that your church thinks will be good and what they think they'll find in the PDL that they can't find in the scriptures.

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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Hardcore says:
quote:
It is not the opinion of man that matters. The Purpose Driven Life crumbles when tested against scripture. A believer should need no other "opinion" than that.
Amen! I have been struggling with how to deal with something for about a week, and this word was for me Hardcore. "A believer should need no other opinon than that."

I think I am gonna make a little banner over my desk here that says:

________________ crumbles under the test of scipture; a believer should need no other opinion than that!


Seems to me this works even if it is our own opinion that is not needed huh? Sometimes you just need to hear what you already know in a different way.

Thanks!

Glad I (the Lord through me, of course) could be of service! [Smile]
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bygrace
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quote:
Why someone would suggest it's being used as a type of "lost bible" is beyond me. The book doesn't claim that like the mormon book does
I didn't know anything about this.

Who said the Mormons use it as a "lost Bible"?

I wasn't aware of this.

bygrace

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Carmela
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My words were a bit twisted here which is fine. However, since I admitted that I have only read a few pages of the book so far I can only give an opinion. I did not say that God's word says....since I'm not even far enough to know. However, I do trust my church but I also have a mind of my own. I typed out the first few pages in this book that I read and I totally agree with it. I didn't promote the entire book, but what I did type was biblical to me. It was about taking our focus off ourselves and on to God. That is a definite biblical statement.

My church is not using this another bible. It isn't taught in church either. However, they do feel there are some good lessons we can learn in this book. Why someone would suggest it's being used as a type of "lost bible" is beyond me. The book doesn't claim that like the mormon book does.

--------------------
www.pinecrest.org

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LaurieFL
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When I first rededicated my life to the Lord and began eagerly seeking spiritual sustenance, a well-meaning person gave me this book (Purpose Driven Life). I read several chapters in addition to my usual Bible studies and found it to be....weak and extraneous and pointless when compared to the living scriptures. No one had to tell me it was drivel. The Holy Spirit showed me how much richer the Bible was and I had no interest in junk food for the soul disguised as Christian teaching.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Hardcore says:
quote:
It is not the opinion of man that matters. The Purpose Driven Life crumbles when tested against scripture. A believer should need no other "opinion" than that.
Amen! I have been struggling with how to deal with something for about a week, and this word was for me Hardcore. "A believer should need no other opinon than that."

I think I am gonna make a little banner over my desk here that says:

________________ crumbles under the test of scipture; a believer should need no other opinion than that!


Seems to me this works even if it is our own opinion that is not needed huh? Sometimes you just need to hear what you already know in a different way.

Thanks!

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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by Carmela:
Everyone has their own opinion, but I have been reading the book and haven't found any false teaching yet. I think it's more like he is misinterpreted by people that may hear only a portion of his message or hear/read what others say without actually reading the book themselves.

It is not the opinion of man that matters. The Purpose Driven Life crumbles when tested against scripture. A believer should need no other "opinion" than that.

If one defends Warren's teaching, they are misinterpreting scripture, not the PDL book.

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bygrace
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Warren writes “Being seeker sensitive in our worship is a biblical command” (Purpose Driven Church. p. 243) and “Keep your pastoral prayers short in your seeker services. . . . The unchurched can’t handle long prayers; their minds wander or they fall asleep.”

This was taken from RW's website in regard to his book THe Purpose Driven Church.

I have myself seen the end result of the churches who take this book and add obsession.

Many a division has been created...many a testimony ruined, views on the Gospel have been changed all for the love of the words of a man.

I do not believe that any book, regardless of its merit should take the place of God's Word.

My question is this...Since when does God need another book to increase His kingdom? Who deemed it necessary to "help the Almighty out" because the original Gospel is just "too much" for the seekers?

I have personally seen the end result with this book...I suppose Rick's book is just easier to digest in the belly of the un-repentant?

If you can - read up on the views of RW and who he calls a "mentor" and then read up on that mentor.

The underlying theme is New Age.

One red flag to me initially was that the Mormons also embrace this book and the teachings...I have Mormon family members- I can tell you that we don't see eye-to-eye on the Gospel message.
1(Cor.5:6)Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a lttle leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

bygrace

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HisGrace
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I have been tempted to judge Rick Warren's work because of one statement, which I may have misinterpreted. Of course much has been said, but I am not going to set myself up as a great authority to judge this man's motives.

It has been said that preachers have been ministering from his book in the pulpit. If indeed this is happening, I don't agree with that. They should be following the Bible.

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Carmela
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Everyone has their own opinion, but I have been reading the book and haven't found any false teaching yet. I think it's more like he is misinterpreted by people that may hear only a portion of his message or hear/read what others say without actually reading the book themselves.

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J4Jesus
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Hi. I felt like making this up because i don't feel that i reply of mine in the other thread would get read.


Some of ya'll sounded encouraged by this purpose driven life stuff.


but i thought it was all FALSE and not to be followed.


if some of ya'll are Encouraged by a FALSE teacher, isn't something Wrong there??

hmmm....

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