Home / Christian Website Hosting / Christian Domain Names / Christian Search Engine
Rules, Policies, and Disclaimers

Christian Message Boards


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Christian Message Boards   » Miscellaneous   » Political Discussion   » Outside interference!

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Outside interference!
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I understand why one might be concerned that I am paraniod when I say these things. But when one considers someone like Bamomama, considering who he is comfortable around, it is very much a concern. That he is a Marxist cannot be firmly discovered. But that he is soft concerning them, even if he considers not himself to so be, is unacceptable. For he is therefore naieve, which one cannot be concerning these types. That makes him more than dangerous.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes! I heard the story on the radio once, very long ago. It was produced by the Moody Bible Institute. I so want to revisit it! But I couldn't even get the Moody Institute to respond to my inquiry. Of course, all I had to go on was the memory of a preacher riding from town to town to preach. Also there was the fact that the person who was installed, whether he was a King or not, I cannot say, but he had the wrong govermental philosophy. All that I can remember is that I thought of him as communist.

Well, I have searched the internet and simply cannot brainstorm effectively enough to discover anything about what I am after.

Cherio!

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ahar     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Michael

The story sounds a bit like a cross between John Wesley (founder of Methodism) and Oliver Cromwell (cut off the head of Charles I). I'd be interested in reading it!

I feel we're not too apart on our view of good government - I suspect the difference is mainly that I don't believe that a 'moral and compassionate' person could hold the reins of power for very long and that the power hungry and unpleasant will somehower always work themselves in! I've always belived that a system of government needs to build in the ability to take this into account.

--------------------
Cheers

Andy

Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Paraniod? No, practical. Informed. Blessed!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Cheers Andy!
quote:
Communism creeping up unawares????? I see McCarthy is back. Object to their policies all you like but thinking that they have some master plan to make the US a communist country is pure paranoia.


I have made it a point to avoid learning the particulars about Socialism, Communism, or Marxism, just as I feel no need to learn the Koran, or of those who read it. I may be the richer for it if I were to, but I have no intentions.

I know enough about socialism simply from the model of our own Constitution, which ensures a sane group of people a resonable structure of limited government which will function well in the hands of a moral people. Socialism, while having a 'feelgood' appeal, only enslaves people. It seems right, but it doesn't work as well as our model will in the hands of moral and compassionate people. The major reason that this is so is that government 'usurps' its people, and ours is designed to be a 'limited model' which sidesteps usurping.

Exactly what our forefathers rebelled against is government usurping their personal lives. And the buzz word that often comes up concerning socialist tendencies in government in our circles, is 'entitlements', which is something which obligates others to carry those who do not carry themselves. Our governmental model supposedly accomodates everybody such that no one needs to be carried. But if some do, we can also accomodate that. The trouble is that once it becomes burgeoning, it threatens the model. That is where the Democrats come in today in the concern over socialism. For they would expand that which should be cut back, or pruned before it becomes expected as the norm, and topples the model which we have come to love.

But you are right! Marxism would not accomodate. It purely suppresses. And how it suppresses! It also persecutes. It has a demonic need for survival, and does so at the expense of 'freedoms' of the people (flaja). In fact, amoral freedoms actually set the stage for the 'revolution' that you mentioned ahar. For it can brood in such an environment, and those who can rise to power can do so in such an environment, but not so easily in the model we now know.

Mccarthy was before my time. I have in the past taken intrest in him though, wondering if he was right or wrong to be as fervent as he was. My conclusion, even if he was a little overboard is that we need him today. We are headed down the wrong road. It has a dead end. And people are tending towards the nonsense of socialism. In fact, in the Olympics in Bejing, the women's 400 meter relay group decided to wear red jerseys in honor of China's communist government. It sickened me.

Someone in your country which I have been trying to find out about is (bear with me, I may not be able to articulate this well) a pastor who rode from town to town on horseback once upon a time. I have been trying to find out who he was, and from what era. But it so happens that England installed a socialist, or communist, or totalitarian leader. Overnight this befell the country once upon a time. This pastor however was stunned at the lethargy of the people and rode from town to town, from church to church, preaching to people to wake up, which they did. The mistake was reversed. That is the best description that I am able to give. Details are sparse. I want to reread the story. I fear that it is quickly coming to my country.

Anyway, pip, pip, cheerio, and all that rot! [happyhappy]

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ahar     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by flaja:
[QB]They were boring, but no more so than Hitler was in Mein Kampf.


Ug - had to read some of that at School. Surprised I didn't die of boredom!

quote:
Originally posted by flaja:
[QB]
Marxists believe that government-sponsored socialism is a necessary step in society’s progression towards stateless communism. The first social security system in the world was implemented by Bismark as a way of taking the wind out of the sails for German socialists/communists so they wouldn’t ferment a revolution.

Two thing I can think of. I've always understood that marxists don't think that Communism can come about gradually or through the democratic process. They've advocated revolution from below as the only way of getting communism to work. Anything less isn't communism, just socialism.
The other is that because something is a step on the way, doesn't mean that it is that thing. Believing in social security doesn't make you a socialist any more than being anti abortion makes you a Christian. Christians don't support abortion, but then a whole other group don't support it either.


quote:
Originally posted by flaja:
[QB] Then you don’t know much about Democrats. The people who want to remove religion from American public life (prayer in public schools for example) are the Democrats. The people pushing marriage for sodomites (thus destroying the sanctity of normal marriage) are the Democrats.

Removing religion from public life is different from getting rid of religion altogether. In fact, from what I understand actually Marx didn't hate religion too much - it was more that he saw religion as a symptom of a disease in society. Removing religion from public life (e.g. prayer in schools) is something very different. I'm not defending the policy of separation of religion and state, but I don't think that you could call that action Marxist.

quote:
Originally posted by flaja:
[QB]You live in the U.K.? Are you an American? If not, how can you know much about the Democrats at all? How are you in a position to know enough about Democrats to know whether or not they are communist sympathizers?

You'd be surprised at just how much US politics gets covered in the UK. Given that the US is the richest country on earth how your politics works affects everyone, not just the US. On satellite we get CNN (I tend to watch it in the morning when I'm in a hotel as the BBC morning news is virtually all puff stories), Fox, MSNBC and a few others as well as working with a number of Americans (I work for an American company) who range from left of Marx to right of Mussolini. Politics is a hobby of mine so I keep up well with what's going on - the internet is a wonderful thing!

One of the key things that shows that the policies that the Democrats have are not Marxist is that the Marxists are decrying them and don't see a difference between Obama and McCain. When the people who do call themselves Marxist and Communist (have a dig around the Socialist Worker for example) think that Obama is a right wing capitalist, that should tell you something.

Michael - The Soviet Union was never really a Marxist state. Even Lenin thought that Marx needed amending (hence Marxism-Leninism). After the 1920s that was it - the Soviet Union was just another dictatorship, totalitarian in all but name (state capitalist as the Marxists now call it).You said yourself that you know next to nothing about Marxism - how can you then tell whether the democrats are?
Communism creeping up unawares????? I see McCarthy is back. Object to their policies all you like but thinking that they have some master plan to make the US a communist country is pure paranoia.

--------------------
Cheers

Andy

Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Democrats are communists! Gimme a break. They cannot just come out in a society like this and declare so. They have to take it little by little until the system is compromised, then in a moment of confusion or despair, there is a power grab.

I don't know why you thhink you know so much about Marxism ahar. I know almost nothing at all, but from what I've read by people who were tortured, or imprisioned for Christ, I perhaps know more about it than you. And this is what concerns me. People exactly like you, with your same views are what let ssomething like communism creep up on a people and snare them before they know it.

If it weren't so sickening, and disheartening, it would be funny, but, heard just the other day on the news that Russia invaded Georgia on the basis of the Bresnev law. That law states that Russia is obligated to invade a 'non Marxist' country which threatens its borders.

Now on BomOmama, he has Marxist ideals. He it deadly dangerous to this country. It is that serious, and I hate to be the one saying it. But if no one else will, I am obligated. And I gave him the benefit of the doubt early on. I almost choked on my error.

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
flaja
New Member
Member # 5676

Icon 1 posted      Profile for flaja     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ahar:
[QB] Excellent - flaja you have read Marxist texts. Did you find them as dull as I did?

I had to read some of both Marx and Lenin for a freshman political science course in college. They were boring, but no more so than Hitler was in Mein Kampf.

quote:
You're mixing mild socialist with Marxism. Both left, but they are not the same. You wouldn't describe the GOP as Facist just because they want to ban gay marriage (thus making the same mistake - mixing mild right wing with extreme right wing)
Actually, there was little difference between German National Socialism and Russian Soviet socialism. I have posted a summary on various message boards explaining what the Nazis did in Germany without identifying the country or the time period involved and only a few people recognized it as National Socialism; most thought it was socialism and one respondent even wanted to know which 2008 Democrat Party presidential candidate it came from.

Marxists believe that government-sponsored socialism is a necessary step in society’s progression towards stateless communism. The first social security system in the world was implemented by Bismark as a way of taking the wind out of the sails for German socialists/communists so they wouldn’t ferment a revolution.

quote:
I'm not an expert on the Democratic party, but I suspect that the Marxist view on Religion (opiate for the people, a symptom not a disease) is very different from the Democrats.
Then you don’t know much about Democrats. The people who want to remove religion from American public life (prayer in public schools for example) are the Democrats. The people pushing marriage for sodomites (thus destroying the sanctity of normal marriage) are the Democrats.

quote:
It is in fact very different. Marx wanted to get rid of nation states. The Democrats I suspect would never get another single vote if they said that.
I think you are wrong. Pushing a U.N. agenda instead of standing up for U.S. national security and sovereignty has been part and parcel Democrat policy since FDR, but this hasn’t stopped people from voting for them.

quote:
I want to reiterate that I don't care for Democrats or Republicans (living in the UK we have our own useless unprincipled powerhungry group of politicians to worry about).
You live in the U.K.? Are you an American? If not, how can you know much about the Democrats at all? How are you in a position to know enough about Democrats to know whether or not they are communist sympathizers?
Posts: 6 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ahar     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Excellent - flaja you have read Marxist texts. Did you find them as dull as I did?

quote:
Originally posted by flaja:


The Democrats' welfare programs and income redistribution schemes point the country in a Marxist direction- from each according to his ability to each according to his needs.

You're mixing mild socialist with Marxism. Both left, but they are not the same. You wouldn't describe the GOP as Facist just because they want to ban gay marriage (thus making the same mistake - mixing mild right wing with extreme right wing)

quote:
Originally posted by flaja:


Both the Democrats and Marx reject things like marriage and religion because they believe that such things are detriments to "freedom" for the individual.

I'm not an expert on the Democratic party, but I suspect that the Marxist view on Religion (opiate for the people, a symptom not a disease) is very different from the Democrats. Again you're lumping them together far too strongly. You may as well compare the conservative Christian view of mix of state and religion (God's law enshrined in federal law) with the Wahabbist view of Sharia Law

quote:
Originally posted by flaja:

Marx wanted to do away with nation-states since he saw the nation-state as a mechanism whereby capitalists could persecute the proletariat. This is little different from the Democrats’ wanting to subjugate U.S. foreign policy and national sovereignty to international organizations such as the U.N.

It is in fact very different. Marx wanted to get rid of nation states. The Democrats I suspect would never get another single vote if they said that. You're misrepresenting their policy position with an extreme case.

I want to reiterate that I don't care for Democrats or Republicans (living in the UK we have our own useless unprincipled powerhungry group of politicians to worry about). However what you're saying is just plain wrong. You may not like the democrats but do you really really believe that they are Marxist? Come on, really?

I've never worked out there is such revulsion still in the US to Marx. I don't think that his ideas are good ones or would work but the view I read alot is that they are inherently evil - something on a par with baby murdering and calling someone a Marxist is akin to that.

--------------------
Cheers

Andy

Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
flaja
New Member
Member # 5676

Icon 1 posted      Profile for flaja     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Russia hasn't been a communist country for at least 17 years. Do keep up!
Russia still has a Communist Party that regularly runs candidates in Russian elections.

And don’t forget that Putin was the head of the KGB.

BTW: Hasn’t the Russian government taken steps to restrict freedom of religion (religious groups other than the Russian Orthodox Church must register with the government)? And was it the oil or telecommunications industry that was nationalized in Russia a while back?

Posts: 6 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
flaja
New Member
Member # 5676

Icon 1 posted      Profile for flaja     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ahar:
[QB] flaja - from what I see of American politics Democrats DO NOT have Marxist leanings.

Have you read anything by Marx or Engels?

Yes.

The Democrats' welfare programs and income redistribution schemes point the country in a Marxist direction- from each according to his ability to each according to his needs.

Both the Democrats and Marx reject things like marriage and religion because they believe that such things are detriments to "freedom" for the individual.

Marx wanted to do away with nation-states since he saw the nation-state as a mechanism whereby capitalists could persecute the proletariat. This is little different from the Democrats’ wanting to subjugate U.S. foreign policy and national sovereignty to international organizations such as the U.N.

Posts: 6 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zeena
Advanced Member
Member # 7223

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Zeena   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?

--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ahar     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
flaja - from what I see of American politics Democrats DO NOT have Marxist leanings.

Have you read anything by Marx or Engels? They advocated a completely capitalist free country with every place of work controlled by workers councils. They opposed any notion of free enterprise (small contradicition here with their statements about the petty-bourgeiose) or anyone having more money than another.

I care neither for Rebuplicans or Democrats, but couldn't let that statement flow by

--------------------
Cheers

Andy

Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
flaja
New Member
Member # 5676

Icon 1 posted      Profile for flaja     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In my view, all Democrats have Marxist leanings; I don’t know why the Russians would choose Obama over any other Democrat that ran for president this year. I wouldn’t say that Obama is a Manchurian Candidate. But I do know history and I think this election is little different that many other election year going back to the end of World War II. The Russians/Soviets have a habit of provoking international incidents in American election years.

1948 The Soviets blockade Berlin, thus prompting the Berlin Airlift.

1956 The Soviet Union invaded Hungary which was trying to break away from the Warsaw Pact.

1962 The Cuban Missile Crisis.

1968 The Soviets invade Czechoslovakia to halt the reform movement that came with the Prague Spring.

1980 The Soviets invade Afghanistan.

1984 The Soviet Union boycotts the Summer Olympic Games held in Los Angeles, in retaliation for the U.S. boycott of the 1980 Olympics in Moscow which was the result of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

1986 If I remember right the Soviets kidnapped an American journalist named Danilov hoping to get the U.S. to trade him for a Soviet spy that we had captured.

Posts: 6 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zeena
Advanced Member
Member # 7223

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Zeena   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Spiritual Answers to the International AIDS/Drug Problem
By Dr. Charles Solomon
July 20, 2006
[June 5, 2006 marked 25 years since first report of AIDS. Cumulative U.S. deaths due to AIDS exceeds 530,000. Globally more than 40 million people are living with HIV/AIDS...][1]

We read in history of the Dark Ages which were caused by an extinction of the Light. The printing press had not been invented; and the church was, to a great degree, in darkness as well.

Today, we have free access to the Bible with homes in the Western world frequently having several copies of God's Word. In addition, we have seminars, all sorts of media, and megachurches; and yet, there is a dearth of teaching which is life-transforming for believers. As a result, the church is still guilty of withholding the light from the world. "...If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!" (Matt. 6:23).

The U.S.A. has been, and is yet, the greatest supplier of missionaries and humanitarian aid; but now much of our decadent society is exporting pornography and all sorts of life-enslaving (instead of life-transforming) messages and materials.

While we were--to some degree--helpful in pulling down the Berlin Wall, those who were liberated have taken in much of the worst of our culture. While many churches and groups from various countries have done evangelization, there has been little done by way of discipleship (which is much less glamorous and more time consuming). Also, the Word tells us in Luke 14:27 that taking up the Cross is the beginning of discipleship. Since very few churches are teaching the fullness of this truth (Romans 6:1-14; Col. 3:1-4; Gal. 2:20), it is understandable that most of those going to Eastern Europe and other parts of the world did not take this message.

Without the message of identification with Christ, the churches on the "mission field" are likely to replicate the powerlessness of the church in America. With the mammoth AIDS/drug problem developing there, the church at large is ill equipped to enter the fray.

Because of this neglect of Christ-centered, Cross-based discipleship, the Western Church has neglected her duty; there is spiritual darkness engulfing the world. Yes, Satan is the author of the consummate darkness, but God has provided His church to be the Light (Matt. 5:14-16).

We have sown the wind and are reaping the whirlwind. The world does not know what it needs, and the church is failing to provide a full-orbed gospel; thus, churches are planted but are not Spirit-empowered to be a force for God in their countries.

This spiritual vacuum is causing cultures around the world to **** in the worst of Western values to the detriment of the church. In times past, we could hold up our society as an example of honesty, mutual trust and moral standards. Democracy was modeled and other countries were admonished to do likewise (which now has a hollow ring).

Now, American freedom of religion has been turned around by humanistic courts to be freedom from religion (which amounts to turning off the Light). Then we are amazed that we are living in darkness!

This brings us to consider, What are the core spiritual issues that drive aberrant behaviors around the world--including that of the AIDS/drug subcultures?

In the realm of the spirit, the Bible states that each person has been born "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1). We were born dead to God and alive to Satan (which places us under his influence in all of our pursuits - 1 John 5:19). Being devoid of faith, doubts reign supreme and people live in fear of death (Heb. 2:15).

Since by our natural birth we are part of Satan's kingdom, we are open to deception--if not actual involvement--in occult activities. We were born in sin and, therefore, enslaved to the power of sin (Rom. 5:12). We enter this world "in the flesh" and ruled by its propensities (Rom. 8:8). That being the case, self (flesh) becomes a despot which brings our souls (personalities) under its control. The mind has been darkened, the emotions are vacillating and the will is bound due to enslavement to the power of sin and Satan's devices.

There are only two ways, ultimately, to transcend the pull of this world system. These ways are both related to the spirit world--either Satan's realm (with his principalities and powers) or God's Kingdom, through the Lord Jesus Christ. Since man is innately religious, he will serve one god or the other. With a spirit that is open to Satan, man is inclined toward the power of darkness and religions which are in opposition to the claims of the Lord Jesus Christ. Thus, people are an easy target for the prince of "the power of the air" and the occult--including witchcraft, drugs, alien religions and humanistic initiatives (Eph. 2:2,3).

Since abortion, homosexuality and pornography are tied to aberrant sexual orientations, these coupled with drugs, serve further to enslave a person to Satan's kingdom, hardening him/her in alienation from God (Rom. 1;24-29; 2 Tim. 3:1-5).

Each of us operates out of an identity that is tied to a federal head, that of Adam or the Lord Jesus Christ. Though each of us has his own unique version of displaying such an identity, we are either in the life of Adam or that of the Lord Jesus Christ and the eternal destination dictated by the life in which we live (or exist!).

The identity in Adam is necessarily tied to time/space relationships and, because of this, is subject to change without notice. On a practical basis, it may have its expression in physical appearance, possessions, relationships or accomplishments--all of which are fleeting and none of which has eternal meaning.

Young people who have no set values are seeking meaning and purpose with many today choosing short term pleasure which results in long term devastation. Those who grow up in an atheistic environment have no eternal guidelines or absolutes to shape their lives, identities and behaviors. Since they are in a humanistic morass, anything which allows them to escape the pain of meaninglessness--however fleeting--provides a strong appeal. They may attempt to transcend their hopeless situation through drugs or indulging sensual appetites, even for a brief period of time. However, this route easily leads to addiction and irresponsible lifestyles. People become easy prey for the wiles of the enemy, Satan (1 Pet. 5:8,9).

Whether one tries to live out of an irresponsible identity or one which conforms to the tenets of society, the only way to gain freedom is to be born into the Kingdom of God through the Lord Jesus Christ. When rightly understood, such a transaction simultaneously separates the believer from the temporal identity in Adam, of whatever persuasion, and endows him/her with an identity that is equally effectual in time and eternity (Cf. 2 Cor. 5:17; 1 Cor. 15:22).

Through full surrender and personal reckoning on this truth of identification, God's people can experience dynamic spiritual growth and effective service in these difficult times. Only the proliferation of such an identity in Christ by the church worldwide will serve to stem the tide of humanism and militant apathy that pervade the Western world. Through the message of the Cross and the power of the Holy Spirit, personal and corporate revival could typify the church of Christ internationally. May each of us experience and express this ultimate, liberating Answer in Christ.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

An exerpt from HANDBOOK TO HAPPINESS FOR THE WORLD: The Church and the AIDS Pandemic, by Charles R. Solomon. Pigeon Forge, TN: Grace Fellowship International, 2004.

[1] Statistics from L.A. County Office of AIDS Programs and Policy



--------------------
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ahar     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Russia is not Marxist or Communist. If you had read Das Capital (I wouldn't bother, it's very very boring - I didn't manage to get all the way through) then you would realise that they exhibit none of the traits that Marx and Engles set out for a Communist state.

Russia is a Capitalist state, and not a very free one at that. It's not yet a dictatorship but is certainly veering in the totalitarian direction. In fact it's actions in Georgia are far more Facist that Communist.

Anyway, you mention I'm dangerous. Well, I probably am but that's just because I'm clumsy and keep dropping things! Of course Russia is seeking to use it's new found confidence and oil wealth to re-asserting it's influence in the region - I said as much before. In fact, not sure if you caught it on US news but Russia cut gas supplied to the Ukraine last year after a pro-western guy (Victor Yushenko) came to power (google the Orange Revolution) and mentioned that he wanted to join Nato.

You really think that Obama would sit down with the Russian ambassador and say 'Well, whadda ya think about this Georgia situation. Speak slowly so I can take notes and work it into a speech later?'. Come on - you may not like Obama but to say that he would in effect commit treason?? Dear oh dear.

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less who wins in the US Presidential race, but I'm pretty sure that neither candidate would say or do anything that wasn't 100% going to help win favour with the American public (or certainly the bit of the public that they are targeting).

Georgia recklessly attacked a civilian population in South Ossetia to 'punish' them for supporting sepratist guerillas. Does that justify the Russian invasion? Of course not. It doesn't mean that we should ignore the bad things that Georgia did in the first place.

Don't think that the US, UK or Europe are playing the hero defending Georgia or squaring up to Russia on this though. Its self interest pure and simple. The Bush administration are pretty hacked off with Russia continually blocking them in the UN security council and not helping enough with Iran - Georgia is just a stick to beat them with. We're back to the old days - two rivals not wanting a direct conflict so fighting by proxy in small countries!

Regarding the radio show - I was a little glib with my comment. However, having listened to a number over the internet over the last few years I haven't found one that isn't hosted by someone willing to say anything or do anything to increase his ratings with truth, balance, calm rational debate all being things that don't help push that magic figure higher.

--------------------
Cheers

Andy

Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ahar. You are an extremely dangerous person. extremely! You read a lot into what I said, and volunteered to 'help' me out. You made a few factual statements, however, they don't take into account that Russia is looking for an excuse to retake, and redominate the region. Not only that, they were itching to flex their military might, and test out their newest weapons. Moreover, they are getting wealthy on oil, which American technology is helping them to drill for, and are they spending the money on their people? They are advancing their military machine. It comes back to what I said about their wanting to 'use' their newest destructive devices.

Also, they 'lied'! (Oh shucks. Be amazed.) They assaulted Georgia, and in the same breath, in the spirit of Marxism, accused their target as being the antagonist. They accused them of tossing grenades into basements where civilians were hiding from the trouble. In fact there is film of the Russian military doing this. So, just like the animal that they are, they are creating pandemonium and deflecting blame from themselves by labeling the victim as the perpetrator in true (and ugly) communist fashion. They haven't changed. They simply suffered a setback.

You are stupidly unaware of the insidious nature of the beast that they are. And when this country is as naieve as you, which is beginning to take place now, as evidenced that someone like Barak Oboe is running for president, we will meet our destruction. And it will be final. And it will be painful.

People like you annoy me. For there are those who will sell their soul thinking that they are doing everybody a favor, who will only say they are sorry when it is too late - irreversable.

And since you think yourself qualified to disrespect the talk show which you likely know nothing about, you help illustrate just how incomplete your thinking is.

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ahar     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:

I was listening to a talk show radio host the other night,

Mistake number 1 [Smile]

quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:

... Obama took their talking points from the Russians when they were discussing what should be done about the invasion of Georgia. They literally agreed with the Communist view of what took place, and used their words.

Russia hasn't been a communist country for at least 17 years. Do keep up!

Russia wasn't even a Marxist country beyond the early 1930s. Just because they say that they are a Marxist country doesn't make it so. After all, Saddam Hussein claimed Iraq was a democracy and held elections every now and again (and threatened to shoot anyone who voted against him !)

The old Soviet union was a totalitarian state that called itself Marxist. About the only country near to Marxism is Cuba (and it's not that close). China for example gave up on Marx a long time ago and is now state capitalist.

Anyway, enough of that. It all depends on what the line of the argument was. Just because an atheist says that the sky is blue wouldn't kae you an atheist if you agreed with him on that point...

The problems in Georgia are more complex than you might think. To be honest I think that both sides share the blame. Russia has shamelessly taken advantage of the situation to punish a country that is looking for NATO membership at a time when they are not happy about the Polish missle shield deal, but Georgia started indescriminately firing rockets and shelling the main town in South Ossetia in revenge for some guerrlia attacks. If you look at the TV pictures of the town parts of it have been flattened.

The reason that the US (and UK and EU) have been condeming Russia isnt really to do with the potential civilian casualties - its a stick to beat Russia with as it becomes more confident on the international stage after the humiliation of the country after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Russia doesn;t really care about the people in Abkhazia or South Ossetia (after all, they did far worse in their breakaway region of Chechnya), they have a good excuse to hammer a baltic state that doesn't like them and to send a message to the US that they are back.

Bet you won't find that analysis on Talk Radio or Fox news!

--------------------
Cheers

Andy

Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Betty Louise     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I agree with what you say. We really don't have any idea what is being done behind the scenes against us by our own people. [Embarrassed]

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Posts: 3992 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Michael Harrison     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Think it impossible that a country outside of ours could try to influence the election process in our country? Obama is rumored to have Marxist ideas. If a country like Russia wanted to influence the general population here, they could 'inform' someone like Obama, who might well be receptive to it, and give him the words to say. Then having done so, Russia could perform something to look like they were respecting the advice of the presidential hopeful. Then people could be inclined to think that someone like Russia would listen to someone like Obama.

Now I know that this is vague. I am not sufficient to explain what I am trying to say. So I am only trying to illustrate that something this horrible could happen if we are sleeping, rather than praying. But someone could envision a practical scenario and detail it for the readers.


I was listening to a talk show radio host the other night, and the host observed that the news media, and the democrats, and Obama took their talking points from the Russians when they were discussing what should be done about the invasion of Georgia. They literally agreed with the Communist view of what took place, and used their words.

This is what you should be concerned about GreenHornet, or candle.

Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator


 
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Christian Visual Media | Privacy Statement



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0