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Topic: Hello Andy
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Gramajo320
Advanced Member
Member # 4667
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posted
Caretaker,
Thank you very much for posting the news story of the woman in Florida. I really appreciate your doing so. Thank you lots too for showing me where I was wrong about this woman.
I truly don't think they should ever change the law for this woman. She should have to have her face uncovered to have her picture taken for her driver's license especially since it is the law and especially in view of September 11. I don't believe it is discriminatory against her religion or beliefs and she needs to obey the laws that are in place here in America if she wants to live here. Everyone else has their face uncovered and she should not get any preferential treatment just because she is islamic.
I would hope that she would realize that she is no longer in her own country, that the laws here pertain to everyone, and also I pray she doesn't win her lawsuit. It shouldn't even go to court. Her driver's license should be revoked if she doesn't comply with the law.
All of the muslim women I've seen who live here in our area who wear the beya cover only their hair.
Anyway, again thank you very much and you have a very blessed day. God bless!
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Gramajo320
Posts: 2385 | From: WA | Registered: May 2005
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
God bless you Grammajo;
You might want to read the other posts carefully.
1) The Islamic woman wanted a drivers license.
2) The law states that the driver's face must be shown on the DL photo, for the purposes of identification.
3) The woman desired to have her face veiled according to Islam.
4) The law would have to be changed for this woman to have her DL photo with the veil covering her face.
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Grammajo:
As far as a woman getting permission to have her head covered that is what muslim women do as it is their custom. They cover only their hair and not their face. Those same women do not try to make american women do the same. They too only wish to be welcomed here in our country and to be accepted. They certainly don't wish to change our country into one like the countries they left and they in no way want to change our christian beliefs.
The woman who covered her hair before she had her picture taken was probably not trying to being offensive. She was following her beliefs. We need to have respect for others and not condemn them if we do not personally know them.
As an american the laws that are in place do not have to be changed and no one asks that they be changed. As a christian of course we must love one another and also have the fruit of the Spirit. God is in control. We do not have to fear.
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http://news.ibn.net/newsgen.asp?url=veidis
ORLANDO, Fla. - Experts in Islamic law are being called to testify in the lawsuit of a Muslim woman fighting a state order to take off her veil for her driver's license photo.
Sultanna Freeman, 35, says Florida's insistence on photographing her face violates her religious rights.
"I don't unveil ... because it would be disobeying my Lord," Freeman testified Tuesday at the start of her non-jury trial.
Assistant Attorney General Jason Vail argued that having an easily identifiable photo on a driver's license is a matter of public safety.
"It's the primary method of identification in Florida and the nation," Vail said. "I don't think there can be any doubt there is a public safety interest."
Freeman's attorneys argue that state officials didn't care that she wore a veil in her Florida driver's license photo until after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, an allegation the state denies.
"This is about religious liberty. It's about whether this country is going to have religious diversity," said Howard Marks, an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.
Both sides planned to call experts in Islamic law at the trial, which continues Wednesday. A copy of the Quran has been entered into evidence.
Freeman, a convert to Islam previously known as Sandra Kellar, wore her veil for the photo on the Florida driver's license she obtained after moving to the state in 2001.
Nine months later, she received a letter from the state warning that it would revoke her license unless she returned for a photo with her face uncovered.
Freeman claims her religious beliefs require her to keep her head and face covered out of modesty and that her faith prohibits her face from being photographed.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Gramajo320
Advanced Member
Member # 4667
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posted
Texas Grandma,
First of all I don't live in that city in Florida of which you speak and second of all I've never heard of a lawsuit that you speak of. Please don't be so quick to say, think, or assume that I know of a woman who sued whoever in Florida. I live in the state of WA, east of the cascades, which is quite a great distance from Florida.
Now this is all I have or want to say in this particular thread other than God wants us to love one another and that means to love everyone - not just a few and not just now and then. Also we are to have the fruit of the spirit - which is:
Galatians 5:22 By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control.
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Gramajo320
Posts: 2385 | From: WA | Registered: May 2005
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Gramajo320
Advanced Member
Member # 4667
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posted
As an american the laws that are in place do not have to be changed and no one asks that they be changed. As a christian of course we must love one another and also have the fruit of the Spirit. God is in control. We do not have to fear.
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Gramajo320
Posts: 2385 | From: WA | Registered: May 2005
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Gramajo320
Advanced Member
Member # 4667
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posted
God commanded us to love one another and that means everyone at all times. We must also have the fruit of the spirit at all times. God is in control so with God in control we need not fear.
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Gramajo320
Posts: 2385 | From: WA | Registered: May 2005
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yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
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posted
I agree with you GramaJo if she was just covering her hair. But she was wearing a covering that covered her hair and face. Only her eyes could be see.
Most Muslim women who are not married just wear a head covering. Muslim women who are married cover their faces. Not all do mind you, but some do according to their husbands belief and wishes.
This women seeking a DL in this country wanted her DL picture to show only her eyes, not her entire face. This is not a good identification according to our Standards for a DL in this country. I have to agree with TG that if you are living in this country, then you should obey this country rules/laws.
Driving is a privlidge, not a right, and as such the rules should be the same for everyone who lives here.
GJ is right in that we cannot lump people into one category for America is the "melting pot" of the world, but this should not change the laws of the land.
If I go to Saudia Arabia, I am not allowed to enter their country with a bible, and being a woman, I am not allowed to walk their streets without a headcovering. That is their law. Yes, we must respect each others beliefs, but the laws of the land do not pertain to ones religious beliefs. If it did here in this country what a mess we would have.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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Gramajo320
Advanced Member
Member # 4667
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posted
The woman who covered her hair before she had her picture taken was probably not trying to being offensive. She was following her beliefs. We need to have respect for others and not condemn them if we do not personally know them. Also we cannot lump all people into one big category and we cannot and do not know what is in their hearts. Again only God knows each person's heart and it is up to only Him to judge. The fruit of the spirit teaches us how we should be and also God wants us to love one another.
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Gramajo320
Posts: 2385 | From: WA | Registered: May 2005
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Gramajo320
Advanced Member
Member # 4667
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posted
When I worked as office assistant to the office manager for the Spokane Neighborhood Centers our administrative office building had many offices.
There was one located upstairs that helped all of the refugees that were coming into our country. They helped the refugees to learn to speak english, learn the customs of our country, learn the laws of our country, find employment, etc. I met many of the refugees and found them to be very pleasant people who wanted nothing more than to be accepted in our country and to become americans. They didn't even attempt to impose their culture or beliefs on anyone whatsoever. Their only wish was to be welcomed here and to be accepted. Due to the fact that the reason they escaped from their own countries due to tyranny, genocide, ruthless governments was and is all the more reason they would not and do not want to make our country into one like they escaped from.
As far as a woman getting permission to have her head covered that is what muslim women do as it is their custom. They cover only their hair and not their face. Those same women do not try to make american women do the same. They too only wish to be welcomed here in our country and to be accepted. They certainly don't wish to change our country into one like the countries they left and they in no way want to change our christian beliefs.
I worked with 13 political refugees in the tri-city area who were chosen by representatives of our government, to come live in our country. They were wonderful people and I truly enjoyed helping them to adjust to living in our country. I tutored them in many areas to help them how to adapt to living in our country. They were so grateful to be here and they said many thanks all of the time. The Holy Spirit lead me to meeting these refugees and it was truly a great experience and also a privilege to have met them, become acquainted with them, to have tutored them, and to have had many long discussions with them. I really thanked God for my getting to be of help to them.
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Gramajo320
Posts: 2385 | From: WA | Registered: May 2005
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andyman
Moderator
Member # 4781
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posted
Hello TexasGrandma Im glad you like this new political section. Feel free to contribute here as well as Christian Evangelism. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
There was a saying if you play around a hornets nest, you will get stung. True - but that doesnt mean you give them your backyard and its also not wise to let them continue to multiply. These people want to completely ruin the west and turn it into their own fascist nation. And you and I are on their list. Im kinda disappointed seeing that after the Madrid Spain attacks, Spain isnt fighting back neither are European countries continuing any effort to the war on terror. Perhaps this recent attack should wake them up a bit.
Actually, to be dead honest i was never into politics. But now i am incredibly eager to learn. Im not really an expert in this field yet so its best to leave it to others. So im actually somewhat new to it in a way.
anyways i hope you enjoy your time here.
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IN 2000, WE AMERICANS spent 94 Billion Dollars lavishly on our home churches. However, the average North American Christian gives only 50 CENTS a week to global missions.
Gospel for Asia - Fire on the Altar
Posts: 60 | From: Las Vegas | Registered: Jun 2005
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TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
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posted
This sounds like a great idea!. So, what do you think this new attack by terrorist will do to the fight in Iraq and around the world, against terrorism?
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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