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Originally posted by Apilgrim2
If we fabricate a significance for Scripture which supports what we prefer to believe, are we faithful to His Word, or to our own "understanding"?

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Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by docrum:
A lot of these explanations are only required if we believe that once we are dead, the rules of time that apply to God's creation still apply
there's no reason that they would

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Posts: 49 | From: Sacramento California | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by docrum:
A lot of these explanations are only required if we believe that once we are dead, the rules of time that apply to God's creation still apply
there's no reason that they would.

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Originally posted by Zeena:
It will be an INSTANTANIOUS translation between creation and Eternity, just as it was instantanious the moment you [we] believed on Him!

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Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by WildB:

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Originally posted by Kindgo:
Zeena, dear little sister what happened to your last post? The woot woot one?

You makea me crazy...

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Hum?

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I sing praise to You, my Lord, for all You have made.

Thank you Jesus for WildB!

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Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

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Originally posted by Kindgo:
Zeena, dear little sister what happened to your last post? The woot woot one?

You makea me crazy...

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Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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There's so many errors in that I don't know where to begin Kindgo!

So I won't! hehe

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Apilgrim2:
The LORD Jesus Christ does not merely fit into my picture: HE IS the PICTURE ITSELF. The Lord is the center and circumference of my life.

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I originally posted that at the end of my post, until I editied it..

I'm glad you did! Praise God!

So then, Jesus is with you wherever you may go?
'Cuz this is really all that matters while at home in the body.

Arguing semantics day in and day out leaves little room for edification.

But knowing you are with Him wherever He is, now THAT's somthing!!

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I give thanks and praise to God each day that, regardless of whatever differences we may perceive in our understanding of the meaning of His Word, each of us has That Word before him/her, and we can acknowledge that He IS Lord.

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Let all who name the Name that is above every name say Amen and AMEN . . .

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Amen!

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Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Zeena:

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Posts: 49 | From: Sacramento California | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by apilgrim2:
My strength lies not in my ability to win a debate within a few message board postings, although I can usually provide plenty of Scripture to support what I believe.

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Apilgrim2:
But I wonder; do many verses taken out of context actually support your line of reasoning?

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Zeena:
It's not to support my response, rather, my response is based upon the Word in Scripture.

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This is part of the reason I thought about leaving the board some time ago, in favor of a Bible study atmosphere.

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Proverbs 27:17
As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Don't run from your cross, cling to it. You are not alone! God allows every single one of us to be broken and shattered, for only then can He pick up the pieces.
Squeeze every ounce of goodness out of it if it so be that you should suffer with Him, thus you shall also reign!!!

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I can most certainly defend the faith that is in me, but I am not well equipped to debate with other believers.

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I wasn't asking for a debate.. Not all all!
But for you to express how you came to your conclusions.

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I love to share my faith with others but I try to avoid starting a debate. I have, however, found myself having done just that from time to time.

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Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by apilgrim2:
Beloved Zeena I do love your enthusiasm!!

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Praise Jesus!

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You are lightning fast with many, many verses of Scripture to support your response.

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It's not to support my response, rather, my response is based upon the Word in Scripture.

I was ignorant of the Scripture not eight years ago, I knew NOTHING. It takes time to build a thesis, yet revelation is instantanious.

I did not formulate a thesis, it was given me.

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But I wonder; do many verses taken out of context actually support your line of reasoning?

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I [as you] can be deceived, however..

I am willing to admit as much and be turned towards the Truth, if I have been deceived.. If you will prove to me that I have.. Will you say the same?

It's been revealed that upon the decent of the Lord Jesus, things CHANGED.

Death was overcome, for it was not possible for Him to be holden of it.

Your website lacks His presence in Sheol.

For He indeed ravaged it!
He broke the gates thereof!

Come now, my beloved brother, we have much rejoicing to do!

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Or is it by sheer volume that you overwhelm the debate?

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Martin Luther wrote a wonderful statement about context. I'll bet you can find it faster than I can!

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I'm sure you already have a link standing by.

Do share!

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Martin Luther wrote:
Upon the cross Christ put death to death

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Martin Luther:
I believe in him by whom sin, death, and all things that afflict us, were led captive. It is a pleasing discourse, and full of comfort, when we are told that death is taken away and slain, so that it is no longer felt. However, it affords pleasure and comfort only to those who believe it.

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May the LORD bless your enthusiastic heart . . .

-apilgrim2

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He already has, He made it new, just as yours!

And so, will He continue to reveal to us exactly what He accomplished..

So that we can have HOPE!

http://www.tpwmi.com/captivity.html

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JESUS CHRIST TRIUMPHANT by William Pascoe Goard:
By "leading captivity captive," our Redeemer gave us great hope for Kingdom life to follow this one.

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Commentary on the Epistle to the Galatians (1535)
by Martin Luther
Translated by Theodore Graebner

By faith in Christ a person may gain such sure and sound comfort, that he
need not fear the devil, sin, death, or any evil. "Sir Devil," he may say, "I
am not afraid of you. I have a Friend whose name is Jesus Christ, in
whom I believe. He has abolished the Law, condemned sin, vanquished
death, and destroyed hell for me. He is bigger than you, Satan. He has
licked you, and holds you down. You cannot hurt me." This is the faith
that overcomes the devil.

Paul manhandles the Law. He treats the Law as if it were a thief and a
robber He treats the Law as contemptible to the conscience, in order that
those who believe in Christ may take courage to defy the Law, and say:
"Mr. Law, I am a sinner. What are you going to do about it?"

Or take death. Christ is risen from death. Why should we now fear the
grave? Against my death I set another death, or rather life, my life in
Christ.

Oh, the sweet names of Jesus! He is called my law against the Law, my sin
against sin, my death against death. Translated, it means that He is my
righteousness, my life, my everlasting salvation. For this reason was He
made the law of the Law, the sin of sin, the death of death, that He might
redeem me from the curse of the Law. He permitted the Law to accuse
Him, sin to condemn Him, and death to take Him, to abolish the Law, to
condemn sin, and to destroy death for me.

This peculiar form of speech sounds much sweeter than if Paul had said:
"I through liberty am dead to the law." By putting it in this way, "I
through the law am dead to the law," he opposes one law with another
law, and has them fight it out.

In this masterly fashion Paul draws our attention away from the Law, sin,
death, and every evil, and centers it upon Christ.

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Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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According to Gen. 2:7 the Lord God formed man of the dust of the earth, or ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath (Heb. neshamah) of life and man became a living soul (Heb.-nephesh). So man is a soul, and without life (given by God) man is-or becomes-a dead soul. It is the spirit, or life, that God gives and takes away. There are no souls (as separate parts of the person) in Heaven.

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Revelation 6:9-11
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

While it is true that when spirit is separated from the body, soul ceases to exist, it is also true that our God is The God of BOTH the Living and the dead

1 Peter 3:18-22 AMP
For Christ [the Messiah Himself] died for sins once for all, the Righteous for the unrighteous (the Just for the unjust, the Innocent for the guilty), that He might bring us to God. In His human body He was put to death, but He was made alive in the spirit, In which He went and preached to the spirits in prison, [The souls of those] who long before in the days of Noah had been disobedient, when God's patience waited during the building of the ark in which a few [people], actually eight in number, were saved through water.

And baptism, which is a figure [of their deliverance], does now also save you [from inward questionings and fears], not by the removing of outward body filth [bathing], but by [providing you with] the answer of a good and clear conscience (inward cleanness and peace) before God [because you are demonstrating what you believe to be yours] through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. [And He] has now entered into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with [all] angels and authorities and powers made subservient to Him.

There is no cessation of the soul in Heaven, nor Hell.

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Revelation 4:8
And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all around and within, and day and night they never cease to say,
"Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!"

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Mark 9:44, 46, 48
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

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When our Lord was in the grave, He preached to those who were in prison, namely, the Patriarch's. Upon believing on Him, He raised them [too] up to sit in Heavenly Places in Christ Jesus, even so as we are now!

Psalm 139:8
If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

Psalm 16:10
For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, or let your holy one see corruption.

Colossians 2:15
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Jude 1:9
But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you."

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Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Others posit unconsciousness (soul sleep) between death and resurrection, but Scripture speaks of conscious relationship, involvements, and enjoyments (Luke 16:22; 23:43; Phil. 1:23; 2 Cor. 5:8; Rev. 6:9-11; 14:13).

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And "torments" for unbelievers.

Zechariah 14:13
And on that day a great panic from the LORD shall fall on them, so that each will seize the hand of another, and the hand of the one will be raised against the hand of the other.

Jeremiah 7:32
Therefore, behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when it will no more be called Topheth, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter; for they will bury in Topheth, because there is no room elsewhere.

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Isaiah 30:33
For a burning place has long been prepared; indeed, for the king it is made ready, its pyre made deep and wide, with fire and wood in abundance; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of sulfur, kindles it.

Isaiah 9:5
For every boot of the tramping warrior in battle tumult and every garment rolled in blood will be burned as fuel for the fire.

Isaiah 9:19
Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts the land is scorched, and the people are like fuel for the fire; no one spares another.

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Isaiah 66:24
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

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Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by apilgrim2:
Scripture, however, teaches resurrection as the hope of future life.


Am I misunderstanding Scripture, or is there is something wrong somewhere?

-apilgrim2

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That 'Life' has been given you in the Person of Jesus in your spirit, in and through your soul as you abide in Him, and in your body in the hereafter.

Romans 8:10-11
But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

We HOPE for that which is yet unseen.
And we WAIT for it patiently!

1 Kings 18:41-42
And Elijah said to Ahab, "Go up, eat and drink, for there is a sound of the rushing of rain." So Ahab went up to eat and to drink. And Elijah went up to the top of Mount Carmel. And he bowed himself down on the earth and put his face between his knees.

We are pregnant with Christ!
As He is pregnant with us!

1 Corinthians 15:37-38
What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body.

Be Loved precious Saint!

1 Corinthians 15:53-55
For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

"Death is swallowed up in victory."
"O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?"

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Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Kindgo:
Zeena, dear little sister what happened to your last post? The woot woot one?

You makea me crazy...

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I deleted it!

I found that just the "Agreed" was sufficient and said it much better than the 'woots'

I also edited my [original] reply as to NOT imply soul sleep

Oh, yea..

I might be a 'little sister', but my God created the universe!
[no offense, just making a funny! ]

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Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Kindgo:
Lazarus and the rich man is absolute proof that we are conscience and active after death.

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Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by apilgrim2:
In conversations among Christian people, in church newsletters, in magazine and newspaper articles, we often learn that believers intend to go to directly to heaven when they die, directly into the bliss of the presence of the Lord. We even read stories of those who came back from the bliss of heaven.

For example, I recall reading in a church bulletin some time ago: "This past Saturday, Mary Jones' grandmother Eunice passed into the presence of the Lord and His angels, and she is now enjoying the fruit of her lifelong hope."

Scripture, however, teaches resurrection as the hope of future life.

Am I misunderstanding Scripture, or is there is something wrong somewhere?

-apilgrim2

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Jesus Himself spent three days in the grave..

Shall not the Lord also give us all things pertaining to Him?

Sheol [the grave, or the pit], contains the three places of Paradise, Hades with Tartarus [the Abyss] separating them as a river.

Paradise and Hades are holding tanks for the dead until the ressurection. Paradise holds the souls of those who have believed on Jesus through thier word, and Hades contains the souls of the unbelievers. Paradise, Hades & Tartarus are all situated within this creation, that is, in time. Tartarus [if I'm spelling that correctly] is the darkness reserved for fallen angels kept in chains until He releases them.

Heaven and Hell are outside of time, and not a part of 'this' creation. They are the Eternal abode of those who have either accepted or rejected the Lord Jesus.

For those who have recieved the Eternal Life of God in Christ Jesus [whosoever has believed on Him] this waiting period in Paradise will be instantanious. We will be there, but we will also be in Heaven with Jesus on His Throne, PRAISE GOD!

It will be an INSTANTANIOUS translation between creation and Eternity, just as it was instantanious the moment you [we] believed on Him!

For those who have not recieved the Eternal Life which is only in Christ Jesus, this will be a loong wait in Hades indeed!

Ecclesiastes 12:7
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

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Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Posts: 749 | From: Toronto, Canada-EH! | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged |