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Author
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Topic: Why can't they love me for who I am?
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TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
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posted
"The advice was given above to be true to yourself"
This is the wrong answer. We are to be true to God.
God should be the head of our lives. We should not make ourselves the "god" of our life.
We are to lay down our life for God. God will be first in our life or He will not be there at all.
He will not settle for 2nd or 3rd place.
When you make God first in your life, then all the other things will come into place. This doesn't mean that we will marry the person who is unsaved, but God will put the pieces back together of a broken heart.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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Brian3
Advanced Member
Member # 6417
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posted
Praying for this situation! Nothing is impossible with God!
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I have been crucified with Christ,and I no longer live,but Christ lives in me. Galatians 2:20
Posts: 63 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2007
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lonlesol
Advanced Member
Member # 4511
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posted
quote:
Your boyfriend and mother should love you for who you are, but unfortunatly, it doesn't always turn out such. Just as the light can guide us, so it can blind us.
Nythology, I wish to add a few more things...
Who said that Shining Star's mother and boyfriend don't love her for who she is???...It has nothing to do with who she is, it has to do with her soul either perishing in Hell or living in Heaven for eternity!...
If her her mother didn't love her, do you honestly think that she would rejoice over the choice that her daughter is making???...Who wants to see their child perrish in Hell???...
Christianity is not a religion, it is a way of living...you either walk with God or you walk with the devil...it is as simple as that!...
Shining Star, you said, and I quote:
quote:
I am spiritual, not religious.
Well, right on, girl!...I am not religious at all either!...
To me, God is not a religion,
He is the Almighty,
the Creator of all things,
of you and me,
of everyone and everything else on this earth,
the Creator of the whole universe,
the Alpha and the Omega...
He is my Father in Heaven,
and yours!...
Why turn your back on Him???...
And on your mother as well at the same time???...
because, I am sorry to say,
that is what you are doing right now
by acting this way... ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I want you to know that I am not yelling at you...
I am speaking to you with all my heart...
Please, think about what I have just told you... ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
Posts: 478 | From: Quebec | Registered: Mar 2005
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lonlesol
Advanced Member
Member # 4511
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posted
quote:
Your boyfriend and mother should love you for who you are, but unfortunatly, it doesn't always turn out such. Just as the light can guide us, so it can blind us.
I belive they do love you, yet they think they need to put their spirituality and their chance for heaven ahead of their phisical bonds. This is untrue. If they shun you for not believeing in what they do, then it is through no fault of yours. Our time on this world is a test by God, a test where our true love is. I feel that, if there is a God, and if He is as mercifal as He pertains to be, then He could not create a place of eternal torture and pain. Such a thing would undermind everything He upholds. I belive that if you live a good life, you love and accept others, then God shall grant you a place in his infinite heaven. How could such a good God not?
As Mythology said, your mother and boyfriend definitely love you, there is no doubt about that...
But, Nythology, your words to Shining Star are very deceiving...what you are saying to her is Very Untrue, you are giving Shining Star a little pat on the back with your words, but please, do wake up...you are unfortunately missing out on some of Jesus' most important words!...
I can understand that some people don't like Scripture being shoved in their faces, I used to hate that myself, I was not interested before and I am Soooo Sorry that I acted that way...
Being told that I am a sinner sure hurt my ego and it will hurt anybody else's ego but it is the Truth and it absolutely needs to be told and understood whether we like it or not...
God Will Not Tell Anyone, ''Don't worry, I know that you know that you are a sinner and you don't want to admit it, and you don't want to accept My Son Jesus as your personal Saviour, but it's ok, I will accept and forgive you anyways. Ok, don't cry now, it's over now...it isn't important that you repent, and it isn't important that you want to do things your own way...you win, I lose, it was only a game...''
Are you all in for a big shock!...No, God will Not say this...Hell does exist, it is all over the Bible...No one can deny it...Hell wasn't created for us, it was created for Satan...but if we follow Satan, then that is where we will go, it is as simple as that...do you want this to be your final destination???...
What you are trying to say to Shining Star, Nythology is that she is right by believing that she can get to Heaven by herself but the Truth is that she can't, Nobody can...
Jesus Is The Only Way To Heaven, There Is No Other Way To Enter The Kingdom Of God...
We should all love everyone, homosexuals, thieves, liars, murderers, ect ect ect...We are All sinners, whether we like it or not, and we are to love every living soul on this earth, no exception, otherwise, our intentions are not holy like they should be...
Being a good and loving person is great, definitely, but it sure isn't good enough for anyone to enter the Kingdom of God, especially in God's Eyes, otherwise, Jesus would have died for absolutely no reason at all...He would have died in vain!...
We are to hate the sin for sure but we are to love the person!...
Sin is unnacceptable!...
It is a fact and it is the Truth!...And people need to ask forgiveness and repent for their sins!...
Please, I would strongly suggest both of you to read these verses, they are So Deep and full of Truth...and so easy to understand...
John 3
Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
9 "How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.
10 "You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things?
11 I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven — the Son of Man.
14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
God Loves you sooooo very much and so do I...if I didn't care about you, I wouldn't have spent over an hour and a half writing this post...
It is for your own good!...there isn't much time left...
Now I will go outside and use my snowblower because over 25 cm of snow came down today...and while I do this, I will pray that the Holy Spirit touches your heart by whispering those loving words to your spirit...
Praise our Lord Jesus Christ, He is our Only Hope, Lord and Saviour!...
Edited for spelling mistakes...
Posts: 478 | From: Quebec | Registered: Mar 2005
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shiningstar
New Member
Member # 6375
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posted
To all who have been posting,
Thank you for taking the time to share your feelings and advice with me. There are so many things I want to respond to, but life has been busy. Soon I'll have a few hours to respond properly.
But I have to say right now, Nythology, thank you for understanding where I am coming from.
Sincerely,
Shining Star
Posts: 3 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Nythology
New Member
Member # 6158
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posted
Your boyfriend and mother should love you for who you are, but unfortunatly, it doesn't always turn out such. Just as the light can guide us, so it can blind us.
I belive they do love you, yet they think they need to put their spirituality and their chance for heaven ahead of their phisical bonds. This is untrue. If they shun you for not believeing in what they do, then it is through no fault of yours. Our time on this world is a test by God, a test where our true love is. I feel that, if there is a God, and if He is as mercifal as He pertains to be, then He could not create a place of eternal torture and pain. Such a thing would undermind everything He upholds. I belive that if you live a good life, you love and accept others, then God shall grant you a place in his infinite heaven. How could such a good God not?
Tell your mother that when she preaches to you, it hurts you. Tell her you love her, and you always will. Ask her to stop, that it just pushes you away more when she does it. It may be hard, but everything in life comes with sacrafice. I'm afraid that there is no easy answer.
But, if you wish it, you will find a commrade in me. If you ever wish somebody to converse with and ask anything, then do not hesitate to e-mail me.
You came here asking not to be converted, yet that is what you received. You asked for advice, and you got scripture.
I do not give advice from a book, I give it from my heart.
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Give to every human being every right that you claim for yourself.
-Robert Ingersoll
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
-Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 4 | From: Rapid City, South Dakota | Registered: Oct 2006
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IAAFOTL
Advanced Member
Member # 6414
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posted
Hi,
I am new here, and am pretty blown away by many of the answers here, some coming from "Christians" themselves. Some of it is pretty frightening as well as saddening, as I see that deception of the enemy is abound.
The bottom line is this. Man is sinful, God is holy. God cannot abide with sinful man. As there is no fellowship between light and darkness.
The penalty of sin is death.
We have two choices. We can repent of our sin and recieve the gift of salvation from God, through Jesus Christ and then be reconciled and now able to have a relationship with God, or we can pay that penalty ourselves, and be eternally separated from God and be cast into the lake of fire, where death and hell and every one who is not redeemed will go.
If we lean to what "we think" is truth, we deceive ourselves. God has not hidden the Truth from us.
The Word of God says that
"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof is the ways of death."
Proverbs 14:12 and Proverbs 16:25
as well as Proverbs 30:12 which says, "There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness."
These are those of us who think we are good, as we compare ourselves to those who we think are worse.
We can be the most moral people that we know in our own sight, but God has said that our righteousness (compared to His holiness) is as filthy rags. Isaiah 64:6
We can never be good enough in and of ourselves to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. This is why we needed a Savior. Jesus was a pure sacrifice. He is God Himself, come in the form of man to pay the price for all mankind, by shedding His blood and paying the death penalty, and defeated death by rising again on the 3rd day and took back for us the keys of death and hell, that whoever repents of their sin and puts their trust in Him, (which is what "believes" means), and walk with Him for the rest of their lives, and do not turn away, will be granted eternal life.
But if we try to make a God who will forgive us any other way than through Jesus Christ the provision God Himself gave us, (Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.)
then we make unto ourselves a false God, a false image of God that can conform to us, rather than us conforming to the only Way, He has said we can be saved.
And if we are going to do that we might as well carve a piece of wood and call it God, as there is no difference, and the end result will be the same.
That is why we must be "Born again." That is having our spirits be made alive once again unto God, and the only way we can do that is by repenting of our sins and making a commitment to return not to our sinful ways, and receive the payment Jesus made in our behalf, and the power of the Holy Ghost makes us able to obey and transform into the image of Christ, by renewing our minds to match our newly made alive spirits, by the Word of God.
Many "Christians" are currently on their way to hell, and don't even realize it because of false teaching of false security.
To turn from our sin and receive Jesus, we are expected to walk in the light as He is in the light. We are expected to obey and conform ourselves to the Word of God.
That doesn't mean that if we commit a sin we can't be forgiven, but it does mean that we cannot live a life of sin or live just as we did before and think we have some fire insurance or else we deceive ourselves.
Hebrews 4:4-6
"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame."
Hebrews 10:26-27,29
(26-27)"For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.
(29)How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?"
There isn't an auto-forgive policy either.
(the one prayer covers past, present and future sin...that's a lie!)
If we commit a sin or sins, we need to bring them before Christ our intercessor and repent, and the Bible says that if we will confess our sins to Him that He will be faithful to forgive us.
1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Let everyone who has ears to hear,(not what I have said but) hear what the Word of the Lord, has said and act on it accordingly for our own soul's sake ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) .
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Study to show yourself approved, a workman unto God who needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
_ ____ _
My screen name stands for "I am a Friend of The Lord's"
Posts: 64 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2007
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Juggernaut
New Member
Member # 6413
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posted
Hey DD,
You wrote;
What is heaven? Why the emphasis on getting into heaven? Let me ask this? If you found out there is only this life and the option of knowing Christ in this life, would you abandon Christianity? I would think that we should be grateful for whatever relationship with Christ that is given, value that, and not focus heaven.
Isn't HE our heaven?
DD
Why should'nt we focus on heaven? I agree that we should be grateful for our realationship now and that we should'nt abandon Christianity, but Heaven is the goal. Right now we are separated from God by our sinful nature, after the judgement we will be together with Him in Heaven. Why would'nt we want to focus on that wonderful future?
Shinning Star, I hope and pray that you will come to understand what it is that your Grandma and boyfriend see in Christ. They have come to the conclusion (correctly) that Jesus did exist and died for our sins. When this happens, all other realationships become secondary. That might sound harsh when veiwed from the worlds standpoint. But, when you realize that there is a great big allmighty powerful God out there who loves "you", it changes your perspective. I have a small book titled "More Than A Carpenter" that is an easy read and a good starting point for non-believers. If you send me your address in a private message, I will gladly mail it to you.
God bless,
Chris
Posts: 4 | From: St. Helens Oregon | Registered: Feb 2007
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desertdweller
Advanced Member
Member # 6383
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posted
What is heaven? Why the emphasis on getting into heaven? Let me ask this? If you found out there is only this life and the option of knowing Christ in this life, would you abandon Christianity? I would think that we should be grateful for whatever relationship with Christ that is given, value that, and not focus heaven.
Isn't HE our heaven?
DD
Posts: 51 | Registered: Feb 2007
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TB125
Advanced Member
Member # 2450
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posted
shiningstar,
It might help if you would understand that Christianity is not another religion. It is a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
I have written a couple of statements regarding this matter that also might help you to make some basic adjustments in your thinking. One of these is a statement that I have written on "Getting into heaven". It can be found here: http://www.christianityetc.org/heaven.php The other statement is one that I have written on the importance of Jesus entitled "Why Jesus?" It can be found here: http://www.christianityetc.org/why_Jesus.php
You will never be good enough or smart enough to get into heaven on your own. Your mother and your boyfriend understand this. You need to consider it.
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Bob
Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
hi, shiningstar. You said:
But my heart is broken. So much between us was right. It is very hard to connect with someone, especially for me, and this is the first guy I have opened up to in years. And Christianity came between us. I understand that truly Christian people must be with other Christians, evenly yoked. I understand this is what the Bible says. I could never share his faith, but I would always support him in it. But that's not the same thing I guess.
Eden here:
Yes, it is true. Christianity came between you. Jesus Himself said it would happen:
Matthew 10
33n But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
There is only one way to escape from this world into the world-to-come, and it is through the resurrected Jesus who has blazed the trail before us and knows how to get there.
The first time Jesus suffered for our sins, the second time Jesus is coming as Conquering King Jesus to take over the earth and rule the earth from Jerusalem.
Believe what you want, it is your right. Your mother can grieve for you not being there, but first and foremost she can rejoice that at least SHE is going there.
As for your boyfriend, hey, I also don't want to be unequally yoked anymore: I don't want anything to do with Islam, nor with uddhism, nor with Hindism, nor with Darwinism, or whateverism, I ONLY WANT JESUSISM now in my life. I'd rather be single than EVER having to hear a non-Christian song in my home.
I'm beting that Jesus will win.
Who are you betting on?
Be blessed,
Eden
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Hi, shiningstar, sorry, when I read on I read this also. You wrote:
Recently, I have been very upset and introspective, and the catalyst of my turmoil has been Christianity. First, my mother has become Born Again Christian. Things have been rough between us at times, what daughter and mother have not had their disagreements? But lately it has been especially hard. She is deeply saddened and worried because I no longer accept Jesus as my lord and savior, and she knows I have no wish to. I have tried to explain to her that I try to be a good person, that I love others and her so much, and that daily I try to live a good life and bring happiness to others. I am spiritual, not religious. She says this does not matter, because when the final judgement comes, I will not be with her in heaven. What can a daughter say to her mother when she hears this? How am I supposed to feel, knowing that my own mother thinks I am going to burn in hell? She read to me from the Bible for an hour, and I told her how I disagreed with many of the things that she was reading, and that is why I do not believe. When I went to bed, I heard her crying. She was crying for my soul. She was crying because she feels that I am lost. What am I supposed to do? I can't believe something I do not think is right.
Eden here:
Continue to be true to yourself and believe whatever it is you currently think is the truth. Tell your mother just to pray for you if she wishes, but that you currently do not believe in the Lord Jesus and that is your right to believe that.
We must not be like the Taliban and FORCE Jesus on ANYONE. My God is a God of love, of whom it becomes said, "Oh taste and see that the LORD is GOOD! (as in, tastes great).
The God of Israel wants people to believe in Who He is voluntarily, not by force, as the Bible says, "not by might, nor by power, but by MY Spirit, says the LORD".
Christians should not be like the Taliban. All your mother can do is pray for you, tell you once that she wants you to believe in Jesus because through Jesus's work on the cross we can inherit eternal life like Jesus had, and after saying that one time, your mother should only pray for you.
AND since your mother is having such a good time in Christ, your mother should be WINNING YOU OVER WITH HER JOY. Your mother shouldn't ge sad or mad, she should be JOYFUl and REJOICING in what she has found in Christ, that you may be surprised by it, Amen, and seek after it too?
Psalm 34:8
O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed {happy} is the man that trusts in Him.
Have a great day, shiningstar. I pray that the eyes of your understanding may be opened:
Matthew 20
32 And Jesus stood still, and called them, and said, What will ye that I shall do unto you?
33 They say unto him, Lord, that our eyes may be opened.
34 So Jesus had compassion on them, and touched their eyes: and immediately their eyes received sight, and they followed him.
Be blessed, shiningstar
Eden
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Hi, shiningstar. You said:
I'd like to start by saying I am not a Christian. I was raised Catholic and over time began to realize I did not agree with many of those beliefs. I believe in many of Jesus' teachings, and I try to live true to those morals, to others, and to myself. I understand though that Christianity is more than just the morals though; in any faith, one must believe the entire religion, even the parts that cannot be easily understood or explained. That is the definition of faith.
Eden here:
That may be YOUR definition of faith, but there are some parts of the Bible that I still will have to ask the LORD YHWH and the Lord Jesus about when I meet Them. I do,however, believe or have faith in the Bible narrative that describes Jesus rising from the dead, and I believe the Bible narrative that Jesus’s miracles really happened, as described.
But shiningstar, you said:
“Christianity is more than just the morals though; in any faith, one must believe the entire religion, even the parts that cannot be easily understood or explained. That is the definition of faith.
Eden here:
As I have studied my faith and am learning my faith, most parts of my faith now ARE understood by me and feel explained to me. But my faith came by hearing and reading the Word of God, even the parts that I cannot explain yet, like how the sun could have stood still most of the day without affecting the earth?
shiningstar, you also say:
That is not me.
Eden here:
And that’s not me either; the Bible continues to reveal more and more parts to me as I study it.
Read the Word of God, so that faith can rise up in you.
Romans 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Be blessed and saved,
Eden
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lonlesol
Advanced Member
Member # 4511
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posted
ShiningStar...
Read the words of a mom with a broken heart. Just like your mom, I am sooooo afraid for my daughter's soul...
quote:
I do not believe a Christian should even date a non Christian.
I know for a fact that a marriage between a born-again Christian and an unbeliever has very little chance of surviving. Ours didn't...soon to be ex-husband thinks that I have become crazy since 2004 for accepting Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, for believing what the Bible says and for caring for others...our daughter is 15 years old, she is very easily manipulated. She wants more freedom and husband gives it to her so she went to live with him...I am a little more strict. No alcool, no sex, and no running out at all hours of the night, studies should be a priority...she is failing her 10th grade for the second time...I haven't seen her in months. He told a friend of mine that he will do everything he can to keep our daughter away from me...so far, he has succeeded...
Sister-in-law and her boyfriend live in sin, they are not married and are very materialistic and superficial, they love and live for money. The boyfriend's mother which says she is a born-again Christian believes that they are doing the right thing, that God has mercy on them, therefore, they will go to Heaven when they die...Our daughter adores her aunt, she looks up to her, and wants to be like her. Excessive make-up, sexy clothes, basically wanting to do whatever she wants, whenever she wants, however she wants...she wants to live like an adult, a sinful adult, but she is only 15, barely out of childhood...
How can one cope with that?!?!...Believing and Praying is my only hope!... ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
No Other Hope
by David Meece
All our silver and our gold,
All our sweet illusions,
All our heroes have gone down like Babylon
I can feel a winter's chill
As the flowers fade away
CHORUS
There is no other hope but You
No one else to cry to
And nothing left for us to do
But turn to You
There is no other Just and True
No one else can help us now
There is no other hope but You
You
So we fall down on our knees
With our faces hidden
And our shame unveiled and seen
By all the world
Lying naked in our sin
No one left to run to now
BRIDGE
All we like sheep
Have wandered away
All we have sinned and fallen
Save us
Save us
quote:
I was raised Catholic and over time began to realize I did not agree with many of those beliefs.
I too was raised Catholic and began realizing that I did not agree with many of those beliefs...Baptism is one of them...making parents baptize a baby that knows nothing between right and wrong is useless. It is only a ritual because the baby does not understand yet and it isn't his/her choice...babies will go directly to heaven, not to hell like a priest tried to make me believe when our baby son died...
Asking third grade kids to accept Jesus in their heart and repent for their sins is another issue for me...I do not remember doing this when I was young, therefore I cannot believe that I was saved. I lived my life in sin since then...in 2004, I have accepted Jesus as my Saviour and Lord, it was my choice, I then knew exactly what I was doing...I now live according to Jesus' teaching, it isn't always easy though but I will trust Him...
quote:
I can't believe something I do not think is right.
Do you really understand what the verses say???...Maybe that is the problem!?...Maybe you just don't understand what they mean deep down!?...but please, I beg you, don't say that God's Word is wrong!...
Posts: 478 | From: Quebec | Registered: Mar 2005
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TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
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posted
Shinning Star,
As much as it is hard to hear, your boyfriend did the right think. The Bible makes it clear that a Christian should not marry a non Christian.
2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
I do not believe a Christian should even date a non Christian.
I do hurt for you, but you need to make peace with God. God is the one that bring healing to your heart.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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desertdweller
Advanced Member
Member # 6383
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posted
ShiningStar,
I'm new to this forum - but have been Christian and athiest and new-age and Catholic and Protestant, so maybe having been down all those paths .....
I think your mom loves you, but it must be very frustrating to you that she's convinced you will burn in hell. My advice is to try to stay connected with her on a level that will cut through all the fear....let her know that you love her, are certain she loves you, and tell her you're certain you can use as much prayer as she will say for you. If praying for you is the way she is happy, ask her to pray for you. Remind her that according to scripture, all things work together for good for those who love the Lord (And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. Romans 8:28) She should be at peace, pray, do not fret and worry. Bring her some cookies or her favorite food.
Regarding your boyfriend.....that's so sad. But if your fundamental beliefs are so different, you would probably be heading for some serious relationship problems anyway. To everyone some things are essential; most of us do not love unconditionally - we are all needy in one way or another. Doesn't help the pain, though. Although you are an athiest (agnostic) now, you could say a prayer for him (sounds nuts but ..?) Do you want the best for him? Ask God to watch over him and have God help him find the right girl for him. Wishing the best for someone is very healing.
As for you....well, you have a brain, clearly. As another responder noted, there is lots going on in modern day religion that is objectionable. Shows you have integrity. My experience is (may or may not be useful to you) is that the fundamental need we humans have is relationship. We crave meaningful relationships. There are some theologians who believe that thirst for relationship is an expression of our innate desire for intimacy with God. I don't believe the journey to finding God is necessarily easy. It's not about (at least for me) saying yes or no to a question, but rather yes to our own thirst for God, and letting that hunger be the prayer....
You can investigate Buddhism - I did - I found it left me cold - there is a sort of advocating of destroying of emotion - kind of killing off the desire for relationship.
For me, I find that 'love me for who I am' in Jesus. I am not interested in denominational battles; I do think different denominations are right for different people depending upon their needs. I do think God hears all things, even prayers don't put into words.
Blessings.
DD
Posts: 51 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Bandit
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posted
Hello Shiningstar,
I do agree that you are at a sort of moral crossroads. As far as the evolution thing goes, all biochemical processes are governed by physical laws (unless God is doing things behind the scene which violate these laws). Since biology is governed by the laws of physics, and since evolution would violate physics, then evolution would also violate biology. And spontaneous generation (life coming from non-life) does not happen, nor can it, for such would violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Anyway, you reveal that you see things from a more or less relative humanistic perspective. In other words, you do not see (or don’t yet believe) that there could be some right and wrong moral absolutes. And you also believe it is wrong for one group of people to stand in judgement over another. I would agree with you on this regarding many things, but suppose there is a Creator. Would He be in a position to dictate the moral absolutes? And would He be in a position to stand in judgement over all humanity? That is real issue you are facing. If there is a Creator, then He is the one who defines the moral absolutes - not man. And everything you said about moral relativism, which may sound good and right to you (and to many others), could be very wrong. If there is a Creator, then what happens to people when they die is His call. And if there is a Creator, and if He has revealed Himself to mankind, then somewhere His moral absolutes will also have been revealed. And if so, then those who accept His moral absolutes would be in the right, and everyone else would be in the wrong - whether they liked it or not.
Here is the heart of the lie of evolution: there is no God and no moral absolute. This is a very pleasing notion to many people, for this means that they get to define whatever morals they want - for nothing is morally absolute!
Here is an important bible verse which is true of the Creator: “Without faith it is impossible to please Him, for He who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.” [Hebrews 11:6]
So before you can find God, you must believe that there is a God to find! By buying into evolution, you have pretty much said that God doesn’t exist, so why search for what doesn’t exist. I must tell you that not only as a Christian, but as a scientist also, I have a real tough time understanding how people can say that there is no God. (It just blows my mind!) I think, “How can they not see it.” To me it is kind of like looking for buried treasure, if you believe there really is buried treasure on an island, you are willing to look diligently for it; but if you don’t believe there is any buried treasure, you’re not likely to want to waste time and energy looking for something that doesn’t exist. That is what I believe buying into the lie of evolution does: it tells one that the treasure does not exist. So if this is what you believe, then you are not likely to seriously seek God.
I hope you can somehow come to understand that evolution is a major deception. Evolution says that God does not exist. I will be praying that somehow you come to realize that there is a God worth finding.
Sincerely,
Bandit
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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shiningstar
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posted
Thank you both for responding. I do agree Bandit that I have reached some sort of spiritual crossroads. Maybe it is finally time for me to figure out what it is exactly that I believe in, because I'm not entirely sure. I have a rather analytical mind, and religion is something I need to research, as strange as that may sound. I know the Bible is a place to start, but I'm not sure that the Judeo-Christian idea of creation is right to me. I need to research other religions and philosophies, and see what I connect to most deeply. Maybe I'm Buddhist. I'm not sure, but it seems the closest to how I often feel. I have to read up. I'm not sure that any creation based religion is right for me. Personally I believe in evolution, i think it has more to do with biology than physics but then again I never took physics. But I respect how you feel. I know that by reading the Bible, it will help me to understand what my mother and ex-boyfriend believe in. It is worth reading just to be closer to them. I will always feel like I have dissappointed them, but I hope that understanding will make it all hurt less.
The train analogy makes sense Brian. I would do anything to save my mother if I thought she was in danger. And her love for me is the same. She is trying to save me from something she believes is very important. I do not believe it is real for me though; I don't believe the train exists in my world. And it is hard to respect her belief when her belief is that I am damned. But I will try becuase I love her.
I believe that if my mom and boyfriend want to go to heaven and be with Jesus, and they try and follow his ways and are faithful, that they will join him in heaven. I also believe that my friends who are Athiest, who believe in nothing, will return to nothing as they wish. My friends who are Jewish, if they follow their faith, they will join God in heaven or be reincarnated, whichever they feel is right. I believe that if people are true to themselves and what they feel is right, and live good lives, then their afterlife will be what they hoped it would be. I don't believe that any one way of thinking is the only way. I don't agree that people with different beliefs will be damned. I don't agree that people who have led terrible hateful lives will be damned either, I think they will just die and be gone, and the world will be free of them. I have a problem with faiths that condemn different beliefs. At the moment I feel condemned by two people I care so much for.
I agree I need time away from them, at least time away from the religious debates we have been having. My mom has trouble with that though, I cannot talk to her without being preached to, and it is hard to hear. I need time to understand more, so I can have a conversation with her, and not a fight.
Thank you both for helping.
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BrianGrass1234
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posted
I don't know about the boyfriend, but it sounds to me like your mother still loves you very much. If she didn't you being not saved would not hurt her so. She cries because she believes you are going to die without Christ.
Look at it this way. What if your mom was walking into an oncoming train. You try to tell her a train is coming but she doesn't believe you. You are unable to stop her an you know she is going to die. Would that not cause you to cry for your mother who is going to die when she could be saved?
Thats how you mom sees you. That you are going to suffer after death, even though you could choose not to if you would only believe what she is telling you.
Don't take disagreeing with you as not loving you.
Posts: 203 | From: Weed, CA | Registered: Jun 2006
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Bandit
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posted
Hello Shiningstar,
I will try to give you my insight. First, your mother and your boyfriend have a relationship with the one they believe to be their Creator. This means that all other relationships are secondary. This you will have to accept and respect. It is not that they don’t love you, they are just disappointed that you do not share with them in this same relationship, which is to them their primary relationship. And since you do not share in this primary relationship, there is a significant part of themselves in which you simply can not be a part - because you are not a part.
As for you, there are many things you need to think about. First, do you believe in God or not? How do you think you and this world came to be? Do you really believe the lie of evolution? I have a degree in physics and engineering and I can tell you that evolution defies the most fundamental law of physics. Evolution just can not happen. Period. End of story. This should force an honest person (and most scientists are not honest) to acknowledge that there must be a Creator. So that is the choice: either everything evolved (which is scientifically impossible) or it was created by a super-powerful, super-intelligent, Creator. So given the fact that there must be a Creator, He (She or It) must have created us for a purpose. So the why we are here must be important. Now if it is important, then surly such a purpose must be revealed somewhere, somehow. So it should be obvious that this Creator would reveal Himself and His purpose somewhere and somehow. This means that in the world we live, perhaps even within ourselves, the Creator must have left evidence of Himself and His purpose. And you, by your very reaction to both your mother and boyfriend, are exhibiting the most essential desire every human has - that being a desire for love and acceptance. So if this desire is essential to man, who is a created being, then perhaps this also reflects the desire of the Creator Himself. Such a Creator is exactly who we find described in the bible. And, in particular, in the Person of Jesus, we find this Creator/God at work in the world drawing men to Himself. The Creator through the person of Jesus illustrates His love for those He created, and His desire to restore a relationship severed by sin. So, from a personal perspective, I see in Christ everything I could ever want or could ever hope to find in the Creator. There is no need for me to turn elsewhere. But I did not arrive at this conclusion apart from an effort on my own part. The Creator desires to be found, but He has made it such that only those who diligently seek Him will find Him. In other word, if this is not an important thing for you, to find the Creator, then you shall not find Him. I take it from what you have written that thus far in your life this has not been an important issue to you. Perhaps now is the time to make finding the Creator a priority.
Here is my recommendation. If you believe there is a Creator, then it is His responsibility to reveal Himself, right? But if He has already revealed Himself, then perhaps you are not looking in the way that you should, which would mean the blame is on you, right? Now if the bible is one of the Creator’s primary methods of revealing Himself, and if you have not diligently sought to find Him within it, then again, the blame is on you. I recommend that you sit down and seriously start to read the bible. In particular, read the four gospels, for in them the person of Jesus is revealed. As you read, pray to the Creator to reveal to you whether or not this Jesus is important. If you sincerely do this, then it is up to the Creator to validate or invalidate what you read.
Now some practical words. You may have some preconceived notions about Jesus and Christianity and what a Christian must believe and do. You don’t know me, but there is a lot of stuff I see in various Christian circles which I don’t care for. Some of it is personal preference, but some of the stuff I see is just not biblically correct (in my opinion). But don’t let such stuff get in your way. If there is truth there, the Creator will reveal it, and it may be that you come to accept Jesus as God, but you need not agree with your mother or boyfriend on every single issue. The essential thing is for you to determine whether or not the Creator is revealed through Jesus, and if He is, then develop a relationship with Him. And ask your mother and boyfriend to give you some space while you do this. When I did this kind of thing, I devoted about 2 to 4 hours a day reading the bible. It does take time, but if finding the Creator is not important to you, then that is a choice you will have to live with, and you may regret it later. (In fact, you seem to be suffering for it now, though you don't recognize it as such.)
Those are my two cents worth. You can pay me later.
Bandit
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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shiningstar
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posted
I'd like to start by saying I am not a Christian. I was raised Catholic and over time began to realize I did not agree with many of those beliefs. I believe in many of Jesus' teachings, and I try to live true to those morals, to others, and to myself. I understand though that Christianity is more than just the morals though; in any faith, one must believe the entire religion, even the parts that cannot be easily understood or explained. That is the definition of faith. That is not me. That does not mean I am anti-christian. I am accepting of all people, all faiths. I am here because I need help. I have some questions, some things I need to let out, and I hope that someone with a Christian viewpoint can explain all this to me.
Recently, I have been very upset and introspective, and the catalyst of my turmoil has been Christianity. First, my mother has become Born Again Christian. Things have been rough between us at times, what daughter and mother have not had their disagreements? But lately it has been especially hard. She is deeply saddened and worried because I no longer accept Jesus as my lord and savior, and she knows I have no wish to. I have tried to explain to her that I try to be a good person, that I love others and her so much, and that daily I try to live a good life and bring happiness to others. I am spiritual, not religious. She says this does not matter, because when the final judgement comes, I will not be with her in heaven. What can a daughter say to her mother when she hears this? How am I supposed to feel, knowing that my own mother thinks I am going to burn in hell? She read to me from the Bible for an hour, and I told her how I disagreed with many of the things that she was reading, and that is why I do not believe. When I went to bed, I heard her crying. She was crying for my soul. She was crying because she feels that I am lost. What am I supposed to do? I can't believe something I do not think is right. I can't lie to her and tell her I'll believe something I don't. It kills me inside though to think that I am upsetting her so much, that I am causing her so much pain. My mother thinks I am damned, and I don't believe I am. I believe that no matter what happens after we die, I will be with her, because we love eachother and she is my mother and I am her daughter. And that love will always be. But according to the Bible, she thinks that isn't what will happen.
And second, I was recently broken up with because my boyfriend was devoutly Christian and I obviously am not. Aside from our difference in faith, we paired really well together. He is an amazing person, and the more I got to know him, the more I cared for him. I admire him for his strong beliefs, it is rare to find someone who is honest and true to what they believe, and I love that about him. I care for him, all of him, and his faith and love for Jesus is a large part of who he is. He really cares for me too, and admires me for the person I am. We are still talking and I know that we will always remain friends. But my heart is broken. So much between us was right. It is very hard to connect with someone, especially for me, and this is the first guy I have opened up to in years. And Christianity came between us. I understand that truly Christian people must be with other Christians, evenly yoked. I understand this is what the Bible says. I could never share his faith, but I would always support him in it. But that's not the same thing I guess.
What this all boils down to I think, is that I feel like two very important people in my life cannot love me for who I am because Christianty will not allow them to. And I don't understand that. I am so confused as to why my own mother is crying for me, and why my boyfriend cannot continue to be my boyfriend. I do not put rules on my love. I love people for who they are, so why can't these two Christians, two very important people in my life, love me for who I am?
Please help shed some light on this for me. I have no friends who are truly religious, so I don't know who to ask. I'm not looking to be converted, I just need some explanation, so I can try to understand a way of thinking that does not match my own. I believe peace can be found through understanding, and until I have some idea what is going on, I will be in turmoil. I am getting alternately upset with myself and then angry with both my mother and my boyfriend because I do not understand. Please help.
Posts: 3 | Registered: Feb 2007
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