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Topic: needing an answer for my question...
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Eduardo Grequi
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Member # 3984
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posted
The deciding factor of grace is your walk with the Lord and not your words only. Remember Jesus is the cornerstone. We as Christians are made steadfeast because of Jesus. I had posted the following on another thread.
I thought I would share my paper with you all!
The false teaching and misguided doctrines of the church are really a tough adverary to beat and to bear!As far as I cold remember when I became a believer in Jesus Christ, I always assume that if Jesus did it, we should too. However, that is not always the case with the church. The chuch has decided to advocate doctrines of men, forgetting their foundation in Jesus or barely having any gimpse of truth in it. In many churches today, we have baptized babies even before they could ever make a competent decision for Jesus. We have moved the day of worship from the Sabbath to Sunday and most Christians sAy the sabbath is not as important today as it was back then but Jesus continually says:
"If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He ma abide with you forever- the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you." JOHN 14:15-18
"As the father loved Me, I also haved loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love." JOHN 15:9-10
Jesus has plainly said it, If you love Me keep my commandments. What are his commndments. Since Jesus being the Son of God and was there at the beginning creating the earth and heaven (John 1:1-4), then it should be concluded Jesus' commandments are the same as those passed on to Moses. Even before the Jewish nation was ever establish there was an universal command and that being Honor the Sabbath and keep it holy. This is the first command of duty given to us Genesis 2:1-3,because God rested from a 6 day of work, we should too. Our rest must include praising and worshipping God. Jesus is still the Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:27-28) The Sabbath was made for Him. Our joy and righteousness is established in faith in Jesus Christ alone.
Traditions of men have eventually taken over the sweet sound of Jesus' name and they have made the salvation of the Lord burdensome, corrupt and removed the simplicity of "Without Faith it is impossible to believe in God". Is it any wonder the unsaved world look at the so-called christian and say, "If that is what is meant to become a followe of Jesus, Forget it!" Jesus came that we might have life and have it more abundantly. For every law of man whether in Church dogma or not, is a continual degradation and elimination of the Spirit of truth and salvation, "THE LOVE OF MONEY" has taken root in secular and religious societies to the point that each mimick one another unto bladant apostacy. SALVATION is the same as it was in the days of Jesus while He was on earth. FOR BY GRACE ARE YOU SAVED THROUGH FAITH;AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES : IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD: NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SOULD BOAST-Ephesians 2:8-9. There is coming a day when Jesus will judge the world, and He will say, "Depart from me fo I never knew you-" NOT EVERYONE who saith unto me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heave; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is heaven."-Matthew 7:21 Ye must be born again- and if you love Me receive Me be baptized unto faith in the Lord. We as Christans must be like the faithful Bereans and search the scriptures daily and discern every teaching thrown at us. If it concurs with the Word of God in its entirety, then it is an holy oracle of God. If it does not agree with the scriptures, destroy it, get rid of it . And do not propagate it at all- unless you teach the faithful to be cautions and know the advesary.
As christians (baptists) we are taught this particular saying-"Since the thief on the cross, was not baptized in water, neither should we need to be baptized in water if we choose to." However each and everytime people came to the Lord and repented first, then they were baptized. HELLO~! Check It Out!! This baptism was the key to seal and make a stand for righteousness.
Will you meet Jesus in the Jordan, and follow His example! Repent of your sins and declare this day that Jesus is Lord, and He has forgiven you of your sins through the shedding of His blood forever! Jesus says- IF YOU LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" Follow Him to the Jordan!
Because of sin, there is no way anyone of us could keep the entire commandmens layed before us, this is why Jesus came.
Romans 3:10-11 As it is written: There is none righteous, no not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one." Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1st- Acknowledge God! God is the creator, Our God!
2nd- You must have faith in God, that He alone established the Way!
3rd- Understand Sin has separated us from God. God will not accept us as holy!
What happened on the day Jesus was baptized by his counsin John the baptist?
Jesus met John in the middle of the Jordan River. Joh knew who Jesus was concerning the deity factor. John knew he was the Christ. Just before Jesus went out to John they had a discussion about two baptism which occured when Jesus was actually immersed in the water! 1) baptism of Water and 2) baptism of Spirit. Luke 3:21-22
TO BE CONTINUE
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Posts: 511 | From: El Paso, Tx | Registered: Oct 2004 | IP: Logged |
Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
posted June 19, 2005 01:42 AM
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THE CONTINUED PART
Luke 3:21-22 " Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was open, AND the HOLY GHOST dscended in a bodily shape like a dove upon Him, and a Voice came from heaven, which said, "THOU ART MY BELOVED SON; IN THEE I AM WELL BLESSED.
(The one and unique time that the Father,the Son, and Holy Spirit is present as God.)
Now that we know above all that JESUS is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, we must come to a personal decision!
4th Understand that sin has a penalty and a price! IT MUST BE PAID FOR! We either need to accept the payment from Jesus as a gift (John 3:16) OR attempt to buy our salvation with our works, HOWEVER ONE sin committed is the same of committing offense against the entire holy law of God, HIS commandments.
5th and final JESUS came to save us, and save us from a literal HELL, separation from HIM, GOD.
2Thess 1:8-9 IN flaming fire taking vengeance on them that obey not the gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power.
NOW that we see what is before us, we must come to decision that will change your destiny. WILL YOU MEET HIM IN THE JORDAN, more exactly we must repent first (ROMANS 10:9-10) and be baptized by the Spirit and prove obedience thru the water.
WILL YOU MEET HIM IN THE JORDAN?
Jesus said in Revelation 3:20 "BEHOLD I stand at the door and knock, if any man hear my voce, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Jesus wants to meet you, Will You meet him in the Jordan?
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belong2Him
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Member # 5411
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posted
quote:
Question: "Why are people baptized in water?"
Answer: "Because it's important."
Aaron [/QB]
Aaron, I agree it's important. my next question: why don't people teach acts 2:38? all i hear on tv is preachers telling people to pray to receive Jesus. is that for them to be saved or begin to know Jesus? what is that for?
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Aaron
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by belong2Him:
Aaron,
why in the book of Acts are there more people being water baptized than those who received the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
Question: "Why are people baptized in water?"
Answer: "Because it's important."
Aaron
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belong2Him
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Member # 5411
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posted
TexasGrandma, thank you. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I agree that Jesus died to forgive us and save us. I agree that we can't earn our salvation and that God offers the free gift of eternal life. I believe Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
But there's Titus 3:5, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost;". Paul wrote both verses. Why are there so many disagreements? And also in Mark 16:16, Jesus said, "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved...".
![[Confused]](confused.gif) ![[1zhelp]](graemlins/1zhelp.gif)
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
My grandfather was Church of Christ. One night two members of their Church came over and showed a Christian movie to us and the kids. After the kids went to bed, they tried to pressure us in to going to the Church and getting baptized, even though both of had been, baptized . I asked them what if a person got saved and then had a heart attack before he got baptized. They said he would go to hell. I do not believe that. I believe people can get saved on their death beds. This said I believe that getting baptized is an act of obedience to God.
Why did more people get baptized in Acts? I believe it was because this was a time of growing for the Church and many were getting saved. I believe when a person gets saved they should be encouraged to obey God and get baptized. But when we tie baptism to salvation, we are diminishing what Jesus did on the cross. We are saying in affect that Jesus' death was not enough to save us, we must be baptized too. We should do nothing to add to what Jesus paid for our salvation. The Bible makes it clear we cannot earn our salvation. It is a gift from God. The question should not be whether you have to be baptized, but why would a Christian who is physically about to be baptized, refuses to take the step of obedience and getting baptized. We as Christians should gladly be baptized if only as a step in showing our love for our Savior, Jesus Christ.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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belong2Him
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posted
Aaron,
why in the book of Acts are there more people being water baptized than those who received the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
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Aaron
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by zelda:
I believe that a person must be baptised to go to heaven.
I agree. But it's not the watery kind that counts. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Aaron
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zelda
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posted
I believe that a person must be baptised to go to heaven. I believe that all the good works we do will not get us to heaven. We do good works because we are Christians. If we are a true Christian we will want to do good deeds.
A person must believe in God and believe that Jesus died for us.
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Aaron
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by belong2Him:
Aaron ![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif)
But Jesus also told His apostles to go teach and baptize people before He ascended to Heaven. They baptized people in water.
I know of at least three different times when people were baptized with the Holy Spirit or the apostles laid their hands on people and they spoke in tongues.
Good point. I know of no water baptism or hands-laying, prior to the ascension of Jesus, that brought forth speaking in tongues. There are examples, however, of displays of power by the disciples prior to Jesus' ascension.
This power was a display of what would come by the Holy Spirit after Jesus' ascension.
The issues is clarified here:
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Jesus was glorified at the cross. He spoke about it just prior to His capture.
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee...
There is no "immersion with the Holy Spirit" prior to His ascension because the condition of that immersion was Christ's glorification. This happened at the cross.
But as far as apostles go, they simply do the work of the Lord. If they stretch out their hand they have first been prompted by the Lord to do so. The power received is still the King's.
Aaron
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belong2Him
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posted
Aaron
But Jesus also told His apostles to go teach and baptize people before He ascended to Heaven. They baptized people in water.
I know of at least three different times when people were baptized with the Holy Spirit or the apostles laid their hands on people and they spoke in tongues.
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Aaron
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by belong2Him:
Aaron,
Why not? Paul says there is one baptism {eph. 4}. Can you explain more?
Of course, that's why it is important to know which "immersion" Paul was talking about. Here, two immersions are mentioned in the same sentence:
"..he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire..."
..and not one of them is in water.
And another distinction is made here:
Mark 1:8 "I (John) baptize you with water, but he (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
Jesus, after his death and resurrection, appeared to his disciples. During one meeting he said this to them, "For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
This could not be a water baptism. Jesus had already ascended when this baptism occurred. Now, from Mark 1:8, we know that this baptism with the Holy Spirit is Jesus' to administer. He performed this baptism from Heaven.
So, when Paul mentions "one baptism" which one do you think he meant: John's baptism with water or Jesus' baptism, from Heaven, with the Holy Spirit?
Aaron
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belong2Him
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posted
Aaron,
Why not? Paul says there is one baptism {eph. 4}. Can you explain more?
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Aaron
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by belong2Him:
being baptized for the remission of sins?
Being "immersed" into what? You seem to think it's water. But that's not the only "immersion" spoken of in the scriptures.
Aaron
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belong2Him
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posted
Hi again, Stephanie.
I know Jesus said He would shed His blood for many, for the forgiveness of sins but what about Acts 2:38 -- being baptized for the remission of sins?
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Sunnysoleil
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Member # 6300
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posted
b2h: Yes we were taught these were false for these passage:
RE:
Myth #1 You must be baptized to be saved
Mark 16:16,He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned
Romans 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
MYTH#2 You must be baptized to go to heaven
Luke 23:43,And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
MYTH#3 You must be baptized to have your sins washed away
Ephesians 1:7,In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Colossians 1:20, And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
MYTH#4 Baptism is not important
Matthew 28:19, Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
I was also taught that we SHOULD be baptized as God's word instructs to be Matthew 28: 18-20
It's a public declaration of faith in Jesus Christ
It's a picture of the death and resurrection of our Lord
It's a picture of death to our own sin and resurrection of the new life, and that Jesus was baptized to identify with sinful man, as an example for believers to follow and as a public pronouncment that He was the Messiah.
This is from my Baptist church's course notes. As I said I am new to all this, but I do believe in baptism and it's importance, but not the necessity to go to heaven or be freed from sin, our faith alone withholds these adventures!
In faith,
~Stephanie
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My heart pounds within me, I cannot keep silent, for I have heard the sound of the trumpet, I have heard the Battlecry.’ Jeremiah 4:19
ATF 2006~ Hamilton Ontario
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belong2Him
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posted
Thank you Stephanie.
You were taught that those four statements about baptism were false?
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Sunnysoleil
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posted
I took part in a 7 day baptismal course at our church (I am Anglican, my fiance is Roman Catholic, we attend and are thinking of being baptized baptist though.)
During the course, we were taught 4 myths:
Myth #1 You must be baptized to be saved
Mark 16:16, Romans 10:9, Ephesians 2:8
#2 You must be baptized to go to heaven
Luke 23:43
#3 You must be baptized to have your sins washed away
Ephesians 1:7, Colossians 1:20, 22
#4 Baptism is not important
Matthew 28:19
We were also told that Baptism is secondary to personal belief and acceptance, but is still very important to prove our committment to holy living and to fulfill all righteous.
I have no religious background, even though I was baptized, I never set foot in a church again unless for funerals or Weddings, until now. So I feel as though if I were to be baptized again it would be symbolic of me washing away my once ignorance in faith and starting anew...
Just my belief
in faith,
~Stephanie
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My heart pounds within me, I cannot keep silent, for I have heard the sound of the trumpet, I have heard the Battlecry.’ Jeremiah 4:19
ATF 2006~ Hamilton Ontario
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Aaron
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by belong2Him:
"what can wash away my sin, nothing but the blood of Jesus". absolutely! i believe that. but doesn't that happen at or in baptism? i think i'm a bit stumped here! every verse i can think of that means baptism for salvation ya'll have a different answer for.
i know that rev. 1:5 says that Jesus loved us and washed us from our sins by His blood. but Paul was told to be baptized and wash away his sins, calling on the name of the Lord. but someone else told me i had that wrong too because they believed he had remission of sins by calling on the Lord's name, not from baptism. is baptism for the remission of sins?
Mar 1:8 I (John the Baptist) indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit.
To "baptize" means to immerse. John immersed people in water.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.
See? Now, another immersion is mentioned: the Holy Spirit. Recall that John said "He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit". Jesus said "you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." We know this immersion took place in the upper room AFTER JESUS DIED AND ASCENDED TO THE FATHER.
So, who accomplished this immersion? Jesus Christ. And with what were the people immersed in? The Holy Spirit.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Here, after Peter was immersed in the Holy Spirit, he tells the beleaguered crowd to repent so that the baptism of the Spirit can occur.
Aaron
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TB125
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Member # 2450
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posted
It may help in this thread to recognize that most Protestants do not believe that there are any "sacraments" that function as "agents" for one's salvation. This means that the rituals of baptism and participation in the Lord's Supper are "symbolic" acts for believers who have been saved by their faith in Jesus who shed His blood for their redemption.
Baptism, eating of the "bread", drinking of the "cup", even tithing, visiting the sick, comforting the afflicted, clothing the poor, or other acts of compassionate service are not to be recognized as "agents of salvation", which is only accomplished through faith. They are important parts of a believer's witness and testimony, his/her obedient service for God, but they are not "works" that secure his/her salvation.
I hope that this helps in the understanding of this matter.
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Bob
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belong2Him
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posted
"what can wash away my sin, nothing but the blood of Jesus". absolutely! i believe that. but doesn't that happen at or in baptism? i think i'm a bit stumped here! every verse i can think of that means baptism for salvation ya'll have a different answer for.
i know that rev. 1:5 says that Jesus loved us and washed us from our sins by His blood. but Paul was told to be baptized and wash away his sins, calling on the name of the Lord. but someone else told me i had that wrong too because they believed he had remission of sins by calling on the Lord's name, not from baptism. is baptism for the remission of sins?
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artm
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Member # 6243
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posted
Hi,
Titus 3:5 Says " By the Washing of regeneration "
This does not refer to Water Baptisim. For there is only one way for a person to experience Regeneration as described here,
Ephesians 1:7 Declares, " In Whom we have Redemption through His(Christ) Blood.
Again the old song says, " What can wash away my sin,NOTHING but the Blood of Jesus.
God Bless. Pastor Mann
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
I think the below says it quit well:
The Living Bible
then he saved us—not because we were good enough to be saved but because of his kindness and pity—by washing away our sins and giving us the new joy of the indwelling Holy Spirit,
Titus 3:5 (TLB)
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The below is from:
New Commentary on the Whole Bible
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done—Since we were without any inherent righteousness, we were necessarily without any righteous works. Only by God’s mercy were we saved. according to his mercy he saved us—God saved each one of us because he acted out of mercy. Faith is presupposed here as instrumental to our salvation because our actual salvation is spoken of as an “accomplished fact.” Paul did not mention faith because his purpose was not to describe man’s new state; rather, Paul emphasized the saving agency of God (independent of man’s work) in bringing about this new state. by—“through,” “by means of.” washing—Greek loutron, which can signify the receptacle of washing (the laver) or the act of washing itself. In Ephesians 5:26, the only other NT occurrence of this word, the natural meaning is washing. Here also the action of washing is presented (Hiebert). Many commentators have understood this washing to signify baptism, but such exegesis would lead to the belief in baptismal regeneration. Quite simply, the text says that regeneration is characterized by (or, accompanied by) the action of washing. The regenerative activity of the Holy Spirit is characterized elsewhere in Scripture as also cleansing and purifying (see Ezek. 36:25-27 and see comments on John 3:5). regeneration—lit., “birth again,” indicating a new birth, an actual regeneration. Such a regeneration is effected by the Holy Spirit (see John 3:6; Rom. 8:16; Gal. 4:6). and renewing of the Holy Ghost [Spirit]—According to the Greek, this phrase is also governed by the one preposition dia (“through”). God saved us through (or, by means of) one process with two aspects: the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. Regeneration washes away the old element and also renews us—giving us a new element (God’s life) and a new nature (the divine nature—2 Pet. 1:4). Both the regenerating and the renewing are produced by the Holy Spirit.
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belong2Him
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Member # 5411
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posted
wow! Aaron, David and artm -- thank you for replying.
one question. i know alot of people quote Paul when he says "for by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast". but Paul also wrote Titus 3:5, which says "not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost". is that a reference to baptism?
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artm
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posted
AMEN
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KnowHim
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posted
Question: "Is baptism necessary for salvation? What is baptismal regeneration?"
Answer: Baptismal regeneration is the belief that a person must be baptized in order to be saved. It is our contention that baptism is an important step of obedience for a Christian, but we adamantly reject baptism as being required for salvation. We strongly believe that each and every Christian should be water baptized by immersion. Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Romans 6:3-4 declares, “Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” The action of being immersed in the water illustrates being buried with Christ. The action of coming out of the water pictures Christ’s resurrection.
Anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ as being required for salvation is a works-based salvation. To add ANYTHING to the Gospel is to say that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our salvation. To say that we must be baptized in order to be saved is to say that we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ's death in order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus' death alone paid for our sins (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus' payment for our sins is appropriated to our "account" by faith alone (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9). Therefore, baptism is an important step of obedience after salvation, but cannot be a requirement for salvation.
Yes, there are some verses that seem to indicate baptism as a necessary requirement for salvation. However, since the Bible so clearly tells us that salvation is received by faith alone (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5), there must be a different interpretation of those verses. Scripture does not contradict Scripture. In Bible times, a person who converted from one religion to another was often baptized to identify conversion. Baptism was the means of making a decision public. Those who refused to be baptized were saying they did not truly believe. So, in the minds of the apostles and early disciples, the idea of an un-baptized believer was unheard of. When a person claimed to believe in Christ, yet was ashamed to proclaim his faith in public, it indicated that he did not have true faith.
If baptism is necessary for salvation, why would Paul have said, "I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius" (1 Corinthians 1:14)? Why would he have said, "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel - not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power" (1 Corinthians 1:17)? Granted, in this passage Paul is arguing against the divisions that plagued the Corinthian church. However, how could Paul possibly say, “I am thankful that I did not baptize…” or “For Christ did not send me to baptize…” if baptism were necessary for salvation? If baptism is necessary for salvation, Paul would literally be saying, “I am thankful that you were not saved…” and “For Christ did not send me to save…” That would be an unbelievably ridiculous statement for Paul to make. Further, when Paul gives a detailed outline of what he considers the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-8), why does he neglect to mention baptism? If baptism is a requirement for salvation, how could any presentation of the Gospel lack a mentioning of baptism?
http://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-salvation.html
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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Aaron
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quote:
Originally posted by artm:
Hello.
It is not wise to make more of water baptisim than we ought.
Water Baptisim is a symbol,and a type.
For the Believer,Water Baptisim is a Public Portrail of the Death,Burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.
No More.
It shows our faith in Christ and what He did on the Cross of calvary.
Salvation comes by faith in Christ and Him Crucified.
Its really simple to understand when rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
God Bless. Pastor Mann
My explanation addresses the "to fulfill all righteousness" portion of the oft misunderstood passage. Jesus' baptism was unique in that it signified His submission to the will of the Father.
Water baptism for the believer is a symbol of their immersion into Christ's death. The reason we bring them up out of the water is to prevent them from drowning.
Aaron
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artm
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posted
Hello.
It is not wise to make more of water baptisim than we ought.
Water Baptisim is a symbol,and a type.
For the Believer,Water Baptisim is a Public Portrail of the Death,Burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.
No More.
It shows our faith in Christ and what He did on the Cross of calvary.
Salvation comes by faith in Christ and Him Crucified.
Its really simple to understand when rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
God Bless. Pastor Mann
Posts: 50 | From: New York | Registered: Dec 2006
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Aaron
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13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him.
I'd like to stop here for the moment.
Jesus knew that His destiny would come by way of the cross. The Father's plan was to rescue the Lost, to restore them. Sin was the problem and death was required. Jesus knew His death was the answer for both sin and the reconciliation of men to the Father.
14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?"
So, John freaks out a bit. John is aware of Jesus' place in the Kingdom (He's THE King) and he believes he may mess things up somehow. I wonder, if the Spirit had not restrained John, would the next sentence have read "And John swam as fast as he could to the far shore."
Now the next part is where I used to trip up.
15 But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed Him.
See, I read Jesus' word "us" as meaning "all Christians". Actually, this is what was taught to me as a young boy: to be righteous we all had to be baptized in water at some time or another. Yet, as was already pointed out, it was not required to enter Heaven. I guess in Heaven the baptized believers get better parking spaces or something. I don't know. What I do know is that nobody had a good explanation for the benefit of baptism only that "Jesus said so."
Well, I think I see it for what it is, now.
When Jesus said "..it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." He meant ONLY "you and me" meaning only John and Jesus. "To fulfill all righteousness you and I, John, need to do this."
John was the son of Zachariah, the priest. John was a Levite. Under the law (and they were still under the law at the time of Jesus' baptism in water) only Levites could be priests. That is to say: Levites were charged with carrying out the affairs of God. Now, remember, Jesus was about to be sacrificed.
What must the priest do to the sacrifice before it is killed?
He must wash it.
Jesus, knowing His destiny, goes to the priest and says, "wash me." This was prudent to do because the law demanded it. The priest washes Him. And then we get this next part:
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
There is no question; our Lord embraced His calling. He knew what must be done. In front of witnesses He chose to become the Lamb of God; the acceptable sacrifice for our sins. And, in due time, the reality of the eternal plan is exposed when our Father responds to Jesus' obedience with a magnificent declaration: "This is My Beloved Son!"
Rom 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
Be blessed,
Aaron
P.S. There is a reason for water baptism but I did not address it. Shall I explain?
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artm
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Hi, Just thought I would put my two cents into the mix.
You can't have it both ways. Either one is saved by grace,Or by works.
" For by grace are you saved,Not of works lest any man should boast."
To make Water Baptisim a " Requirement " for being saved, Is to make Salvation of works,and not of grace.
Romans 4:4 Declares," Now to him who works is the reward not reckoned of GRACE,But of debt."
The phrase," Arise,Be baptised,And wash away thy sins,Calling on the Name of the Lord."(acts 22:16)
Refers to a present action,But being done because of a past action.
In other words, " One is not baptised in water in order to wash away sins, But rather, Because the sins have already been washed away by the precious Blood of Jesus Christ.
An old song says, " What can wash away my sin,NOTHING,But the Blood of Jesus.
Sometime ago,A man asked me, " if water baptisim washed away my sin ?" I said no, All water baptisim will do without first having been washed in the Blood of Jesus,is wash away your dirt.
Water Baptisim has its place in the Church, But not as a requirement for Salvation.
Thank you and God bless. Pastor Mann
Posts: 50 | From: New York | Registered: Dec 2006
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Bandit
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Hello belong2Him,
I kind of agree with the notion that baptism is to the Christian as circumcision was/is to the Jew. When one converted to Judaism, circumcision is required, and so it is with baptism for Christianity. But some Christians make more of baptism than they should, just as many under Judaism made too much of their physical circumcision. Many Jews wrongly thought that since they were physically circumcised, that they were pretty much guaranteed a right status before God. But scripture is clear that such physical circumcision did not guarantee a right status. In other words, more than physical circumcision was need by the Jew. And so it is with the Christian and baptism. Many Christians make far more of the physical act of baptism than they should. They claim that the physical act of baptism guarantees a right standing before God.
Consider the Great Commission as given in Matthew 28:19-20.
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them..., teaching them...”
The problem I have with some churches is that they are mainly concerned with baptism, but concerned little with making disciples and teaching them. So that is why I say we should be careful to not make the physical act of baptism into something it is not. Just as physical circumcision by itself does not guarantee the Jew continued right standing, neither does baptism for the Christian. The following has always been true: “The just shall live by faith.”
But do not think that I am against baptism, for I am definitely for it. I see baptism as a important initial step in the walk of faith, but there are many other steps which are just as important, and if left undone will negate the initial step of baptism.
Bandit
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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belong2Him
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hi Bandit. thank you for replying. you said that we should be careful to not make baptism something that it isn't. what did you mean by that? i don't believe baptism to be a work, the way some say that we try to merit our salvation. which i believe we can't. i do believe it is a free gift. it is by God's grace we are saved. the same Paul who wrote "for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast" also penned "but when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit". i believe that is why there are people who teach that to be saved baptism is included. but like the song goes "what can wash away my sin? nothing but the blood of Jesus" {rev. 1:5}. but Paul was told to be baptized and wash away his sins {acts 22:16}. what are your thoughts on this?
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Bandit
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eduardo Grequi:
...
Many other people say the thief on the cross was not baptized, but Jesus said He will remember him in paradise. Consequently that thief was not under grace but under the law...
Let us be careful to not make baptism into a kind of "work". The thief expressed faith in Christ, but the thief also had no opportunity to express his faith through actions. I strongly disagree with the sentiment that the thief was saved under law and not under grace. He expressed faith in Jesus as King. That puts him squarly under the New Covenant. That people are to express their faith through their walk is true, and baptism certainly is a critical part of this walk, but let us be careful that we do not attribute more to baptism than the other aspects of walking by faith. The moment immediately after one's baptism, one is not more saved than they were the moment immediately before their baptism. One is saved by an active faith in Christ - and that faith precedes baptism. Baptism is an important and commanded part of that faith, just as is loving one's neighbor, but let's be careful to not make baptism into something it is not.
Bandit
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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Eduardo Grequi
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There are many views of baptism, however, the two main views are?
1)Once someone has professed faith in Jesus the Christ, he must be obedient in the first step and that is baptism.
2) Now some Christians hold to the following (which I do) Jesus said He that believes and is baptised shall be saved. The person must believe and also be baptised to be saved. It came out of Jesus' mouth. He rules.
Mark 16:15, 16
Throughout the books of Acts all believers who came to knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, were baptized immediately.
Many other people say the thief on the cross was not baptized, but Jesus said He will remember him in paradise. Consequently that thief was not under grace but under the law, because Jesus had not yet died and resurrrected victorously. It was his faith that justified him similar to the faith like Abrahm, Isaac, Jacob ( Read the book of Hebrews). The thief is a cop out for many baptist who teach that it is okay just to believe without being physically immersed in water. Jesus does not teach "If you just believe and not be baptized you will still be saved". Jesus teaches he that believes and is baptiaed shall be saved.
Acts 22:16 converts became obedient to the Lord after first Confessing with thier mouths and believing in their hearts then they were baptized. (Romans 10:8-10) The Apostle Paul stated in Romans 6 that when we are baptized, we spirotually portray the following. We were buried into his death, and raised a new man. Confession of the heart leads to baptism and not the other way around. Galat. 3:27; Ephesians 1:22,23 teaches that One who has not been baptized is not in Christ. Even the Ethopian Eunich ones Philip taught him, professed Jesus as the Messiah and was baptized. Galat. 3:27 teaches that when we put on Christ it is when we are baptized.
According to the scriptures, a person must believe the gospel of Christ, repent and be batized which is immersion in water. The Lord washes away your sins by His blood when you are baptized, saves you by His grace and adds you as one of the saved to His blood-bought church.
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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belong2Him
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Hi. I am here hoping to have a discussion [not a debate] on baptism. Anyone please feel free to post your views on this topic. I know my view of it differs from a lot of people but that is what I want to get down to. The reasons why and scripture to back up our beliefs. Hopefully I can get answers without having another one of "those" conversations that doesn't get anywhere. ![[Wink]](wink.gif) Thank you.
Posts: 14 | Registered: Jan 2006
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