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Topic: Why do Catholic Confess to a Preist?
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KnowHim
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This thread needs to be in the Exposing False Teaching section.
No more teaching that Catholism is OK.
It is a false teaching and anymore discussing it must be in the False Teaching Teaching section or the thread will be deleted.
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
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So you would say this is a false way to pray?
"Lord, save us, we perish!" "Holy Mother of God pray for us, or we are lost!"
or
"Lord, save us, we perish!" "Holy Mother of God pray for us sinners!"
or any variation there of using the name of Mary in the prayer.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Pio
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um you seem to truely not understand that Catholics 1-Do NOT have a goddess, dispite misconceptions about Mary, True Catholics DO NOT WORSHIP Mary. I will grant however that some people who CALL themselves Catholics DO worship her however.
Second the Priesthood is not completly celebate, the Roman Rite is the ONLY Rite that does have celebate priest. Further the question of celebacy was something talked about by even Paul.
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becauseHElives
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Catholic Priestcraft Rooted in Babylonian Idolatry
One of the striking characteristics of Roman Catholicism is that it contains a complete sacerdotal (priest based) system not supported by Scripture. This system includes worship of a wafer, adoration of a goddess, prayers to and for the dead, infant baptism, confession to a priest, confiscation of God's grace to be dispensed through a system of sacraments, suffering for one's own sins after death in purgatory, a celibate hierarchy topped by an infallible pope who claims to be Christ's vice president on earth, no assurance of salvation, bowing to idols, worship of relics, repetitious prayers, etc.
None of these teachings can be solidly backed by the Bible. Many are expressly forbidden.
So, where did these come from? Were they just thought up along the way by imaginative pastors as the church grew? Or were they possibly part of other worship systems existing previously and along side the expanding church? Over a hundred years ago a brilliant Bible scholar named Alexander Hislop determined to find out. After many years of research in hundreds of volumes, he produced a timeless classic which details the origins of these anti-biblical beliefs.
As he traced their histories, incredibly, all trails led to ancient Babylon. There, in the shadow of the infamous tower of Babel he found their source. Shortly after Noah exited the ark, men quickly forgot God's judgment in the flood and set out to rebuild another culture of rebellion like the one God had destroyed. Refusing to worship the Creator, they set up an elaborate priestcraft system to worship God's creation: the sun, moon and sacred stones and His creatures: snakes, birds, bugs, kings and queens. Hislop documented in amazing detail how the Roman Catholic Madonna is just a modernized Babylonian Semiramis; the wafer worship is extracted from sun worship which was almost universal in the pagan world. The characteristics of wheat flour and round shape are traceable in history to requirements for cakes of an "unbloody sacrifice" to the sun god. Even the IHS imprint, according to Hislop, would have been interpreted by the pagan Egyptian to represent his chief deities, Isis, Horus and Seb.
Part of the pagan ceremony included eating the ceremonial cakes. The early apostate leaders the Apostle Paul warned "THE MYSTERY OF INIQUITY DOTH ALREADY WORK" (2 Thess 2:7).could not pass up the opportunity to pervert the meaning of the Lord's instructions at the last supper, in order to tighten the bondage of the people to the priesthood. This power mechanism had been fine tuned by the pagan priests for thousands of years. Hislop traces the papal system of sacramental grace obtained by good works and rituals back to a merit system which originated in Babylon under Nimrod and his queen. From there it spread universally as the expanding population carried paganism into each new colony of mankind.
Even baptismal regeneration was an early concept taught in Nimrod's system of rebellion. Hislop cites quotations from early writers describing pagan infant baptismal rites for not only cleansing from sin but exorcising demons. These ceremonies are strikingly similar to Roman Catholic infant baptism.
And so on down the list of anti-biblical papal dogmas, Hyslop's book, The Two Babylons, ties them all in one way or another to Nimrod's Babylonian "mysteries" the fountainhead of all idolatry which spread throughout the world. Roman Catholicism is nothing more than ancient paganism in a space suit, finely programmed to seduce the modern man who prefers to cover his rebellion with ritual, rather than submit to a loving, personal Savior.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
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A Catholic friend of mine told me that confessing to a priest simply encourages the process of confessing...of the need to confess, if the busy life of commerce has caused us to forget that we need to confess...
However, from a Protestant point of view, I would say that now that I am bornagain, I find myself easily noticing that what I just said or did was "not Godly" and I tell the Lord immediately, "sorry about that Lord, that was not nice."
Hi, Pio. As a Prosetant, I find myself confessing pretty much rightaway, and if I got to the weekly confessional of priest so-and-so, I'd be done fessed up, know what I mean?
Be blessed.
Eden
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becauseHElives
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Blood, gore and gut that is the Roman Catholic Church. Wh!ore of Wh!ores
Never was and never will be the Church of the God, Yahweh.
Built on lies and deception.
I pray for those trap in her system of lies.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Pio
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I didn't start this thread to DEBATE the subject. For one I'm not allowed to.
Second I was answeing a question about WHY Catholics have the Sacrament in the first place.
The only misconception that I still see about the Catholic view of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, is that Jesus is the one doing the forgiveness THROUGH a Priest. The Priest does not forgive on his own authority.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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The preisthood did not carry the sins of the people to the mercy seat or the blood to the mercy seat... only the HIGH PRIEST could enter the Holy of Holies and Christ is that HIGH PRIEST and HE HAS ALREADY entered once and for ALL.
We need no priest to forgive our sins. We now can all go boldly before the throne ourselves and ask what we will in HIS name. We do not go to aks forgiveness of our sins, we go to confess our sins and we go to pray and worship and praise and give thanks for what GOD has already done.
If we are in need of an advocate before the throne of God, there is but one and that is Christ.
1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
John 20:21-23 Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Recieve the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
This scripture does not speak to a priest absolving one of sin. This scripture explains this one...
Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
God can forgive your sins against him. When you confess your sins to GOD, he is FAITHFUL to forgive your sins against him because HE has accepted Christ's sacrifice for those sins.
God however can not forgive your sins against your brother. Your brother must forgive your sins against him.
Thus the scripture says:
Lu 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
If you sin against me, you sin against me and against GOD. You can go to God and he can forgive your sin against him, but he can not forgive your sin against me for me. I must forgive you, and If I do not forgive you, then I sin because I hold in sin what God will not because of the blood of Christ.
It is scriptural to confess to each other our sins, but why do we do this?
Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
So that we pray for one another.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Pio
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Acts chapter 6 shows the laying on of hands by the Apostles for men to share in the ministry of the Apostles by taking care of the community in ways that the Apostles do not have time for. These men Are the priest of the early Church. Priest are not necessarily Apostles (Bishops)However all Bishops are Priest.
Note that the men Jesus breathed on and gave the Holy Spirit for the specific purpose of forgiving sins, layed hands on the others who gained a share in Christ Authority for that part of the ministry.
We are called to forgive one another for wrongs recieved from someone else, however this is a personal forgiveness, and it is not the same kind of forgiveness which is Granted to us by Christ alone. Catholics believe that Christ has used his ordained preisthood to work though for the later kind of forgiveness. Forgiveness (for Grave, very serious, sins) happend by Christ through the ministerial ordained priesthood. Less serious sins are forgiven though a contrite heart.
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Aaron
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![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
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Eduardo Grequi
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Why Do Catholics use a Priest to confess their sins?
It is a part of their catechism to do so.
Is it scripturely sound?
Partily
Confession can be done 1 of 3 ways?
To God
To Man
And one to another
God said if we confiess our sins he is faithful to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness?
If a brother comes to you and has done something against you and he ask forgiveness- you are obligate to forgive.
If a leader does wrong to his nation and says to them -forgive me, my people! Yhan man in general can forgive the leader.
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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becauseHElives
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If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." This takes imparted Holy Ghost discernment….The Apostle Peter had the ability to forgive Ananias and Sapphira but they lied to the Holy Ghost in him and were struck dead.
quote:
John 20:21-23 Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
This is a very true scripture for the follower of Yeshua, that have been filled with the
Holy Ghost.
But it has nothing to do at all with the Roman Catholic Anti-Christ Church. The Pope, priests, cardinals, nuns and every office in the Roman Catholic Church all need to repent and turn from the Wh!orish wicked Roman Catholic Church ways and be saved be fore they can do the works of Yahweh.
When judgment from the True Church of Yahweh upon the true church, people are struck dead miraculously (no man has to touch them)
When you see forgiveness from the True Church of Yahweh you see people restored and healed..
When judgment fall from the Roman Catholic Wh!ore , you will see gruesome torture.
When you see forgiveness from the Roman Catholic Wh!ore , you see people looking for money to pay somebody.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Aaron
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quote:
Originally posted by Pio:
John 20:21-23 Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Recieve the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
The qualifier is "receive the Holy Spirit".
Whether or not one is forgiven is known by the Holy Spirit. The ones who have the Spirit discern the truth and operate upon it.
Now, it would be of utmost importance to know whether or not the Holy Spirit is given to more than just the apostles. If this is so then the authority to forgive or retain sins may also be discerned by them.
Furthermore, if one should argue that "priests" alone retain the discernment to forgive or not to forgive then it would be important to know whether or not the label "priests" is ever applied to believers other than apostles.
The person who finds the answers (scriptures) first gets a cookie. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Aaron
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Pio
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John 20:21-23 Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Recieve the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
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Caretaker
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We are justified solely through the Blood of Christ shed on Calvary. Through faith He is our justification and He is our propitiation:
1 John 2:1-2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
CHRIST IS OUR REDEEMER!!!!
We ARE NOT co-redeemers with HIM, and our works DO NOT add one iota to our salvation.
Faith alone in Christ alone.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Pio
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A Sacramental Reconcilliation (Confession) has ALWAYS been there, the form has changed for the Roman Rite which your post shows. Secondly, The Prace of private confession according to your cut n' paste, came from Eastern monasticism. The Eastern and Western Church was still in Full Union with each other during the seventh Century, so the practices of the East were Practices of the Whole Church the same way that practices of the West were practices of the whole church.
A Catholic believes that the Form of a Sacrament may change, but the Scarament none the less is the same. Catholics DO NOT have to utilize reconcilliation for venial sins, just as Augustine said. however for the Serious Sin, like those Augustine mentioned did and do still require sacramental reconciliation and penance.
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Caretaker
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http://www.justforcatholics.org/a23.htm
Auricular Confession: A Late Invention
Question: Since it was Jesus who established the sacrament of Penance, why is it that Protestants do not confess their sins to a priest?
Answer: Confession to a priest is not a biblical practice; it is not even a custom of the early church.
Our Lord taught us to confess our sins directly to God the Father. He told us to pray, "Our Father in heaven...forgive us our sins as we forgive those who trespass against us." Reading the New Testament we do not find a single instance of the apostles hearing private confession; nor do we find the disciples confessing to a priest.
There was no auricular confession to a priest in the early church either. Augustine gives us a snapshot of the church in the 4th and 5th century. In his Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed, Augustine writes:
“When ye have been baptized, hold fast a good life in the commandments of God, that ye may guard your Baptism even unto the end. I do not tell you that ye will live here without sin; but they are venial, without which this life is not. For the sake of all sins was Baptism provided; for the sake of light sins, without which we cannot be, was prayer provided. What hath the Prayer? "Forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors." Once for all we have washing in Baptism, every day we have washing in prayer. Only, do not commit those things for which ye must needs be separated from Christ's body: which be far from you! For those whom ye have seen doing penance, have committed heinous things, either adulteries or some enormous crimes: for these they do penance. Because if theirs had been light sins, to blot out these daily prayer would suffice.”
How did Christians deal with sin at that time? They dealt severely with those who committed grievous sins, casting them out of the church. A period of "penance" was required before the repentant sinner was re-admitted. But what about the daily sins that all Christians commit? Did they confess them to a priest? No, they confessed directly to God in prayer, asking the Father for forgiveness. Prayer was considered sufficient for daily cleaning.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church admits that private confession first came on the scene in the seventh century:
“Over the centuries the concrete form in which the Church has exercised this power received from the Lord has varied considerably. During the first centuries the reconciliation of Christians who had committed particularly grave sins after their Baptism (for example, idolatry, murder, or adultery) was tied to a very rigorous discipline, according to which penitents had to do public penance for their sins, often for years, before receiving reconciliation. To this ‘order of penitents’ (which concerned only certain grave sins), one was only rarely admitted and in certain regions only once in a lifetime. During the seventh century Irish missionaries, inspired by the Eastern monastic tradition, took to continental Europe the ‘private’ practice of penance, which does not require public and prolonged completion of penitential works before reconciliation with the Church. From that time on, the sacrament has been performed in secret between penitent and priest. This new practice envisioned the possibility of repetition and so opened the way to a regular frequenting of this sacrament. It allowed the forgiveness of grave sins and venial sins to be integrated into one sacramental celebration. In its main lines this is the form of penance that the Church has practiced down to our day” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1447).
So, private confession was introduced a full seven centuries after Christ and His apostles. Ironically the Roman Church curses us if we dare assert the plain historical fact that secret confession to a priest was not observed from the beginning:
“If anyone denies that the sacramental confession was instituted, and is necessary for salvation, by divine Law; or says that the manner of confessing secretly to a priest alone, which the Catholic Church has always observed from the beginning and still observes, is at variance with the institution and command of Christ and is a human invention, anathema sit” (Council of Trent, Session 14, Canon 6).
Friend, I urge you to disregard Rome’s vain threats; you cannot deny the truth. If you want to follow the teaching of the Bible, and the practice of the early church, stop once and for all going to private confession to a priest. Pray to God. He knows your heart and He hears your prayers. He will certainly forgive you if you repent and believe in His Son, Jesus Christ.
Copyright Dr Joe Mizzi. Permission to copy and distribute this article without textual changes.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Pio
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quote:
Originally posted by: Ahar
Given that David threatened to ban me for 'teaching catholic doctrine' (I was saying that Catholics do believe that christ has died for their sins), I suspect this will be your one and only post.
But I hope not - I would be interested in the debate.
The first question I have (if you're not
immediately banned) is why are priests needed for confession? If Catholism teaches that priests are simply there as a conduit but that you can pray directly for forgiveness (like the thief) why are priests needed to perform this function at all? I mean, why bother - why not pray directly to ask for forgiveness?
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Cheers
Andy
I have been informed that I may not use the Catholic Bible, as such I will be using The Oxford Annotated Bible With the Apocrypha RSV, C. 1965 for my Biblical quotes.
Mathew Chp 16:18-19 "18 And i tell you you are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church., and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you they keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earthon earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ."[b/]
verse 19 is the key verse in regards to confession. verse 18 is put in to help with context. Jesus is talking to Peter in verse 19 when he gives the keys, and then turns to instructs the rest of the disciples.
[b]Mathew 18:18 "Truely, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
This verse is spoken to the whole of the disciples in regards to rebuking and teaching a fellow brother, as well as casting that brothr out. Notice the keys (by Catholic Understanding)were given ONLY to Peter, the power to bind an loose to all of the disciples.
Furthermore, when the Bible speaks of Confessing your sins, Catholics understand it to be a real confession. Many non-Catholics even at this point will still point out to the Catholic that God does not need a man to do what he can do. A Catholic would agree that God does not NEED a man to to what he can do in terms of forgiveness. However that does not change the fact that God did use men.
John 20:21-23 Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Recieve the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
This verse does two things for a Catholic First clearly shows Christ commissioning MEN to hear the Confessions of other MEN and decide if they are forgiven or retained. Second it shown an Ordained group of men for the Purpose of Ministry (...even so I send you.)
Next Read the first two chapter of Acts. This is too long to post on here. We see the beginnings of the Apostolic Church going on. A couple key things to point out on the subject here. First Judas even though dead, before Jesus breathed on the disciples still has a share in the Ministry which must be fulfilled. And Mathi'as took his place among the Apostles. This is the beginning of what Catholics call Apostolic Succession. This has continued to the present day ordination of Bishops.
next we get to the authority of Confessing to a PRIEST.
Acts 6 gives the account of laying hands on the seven (those to help the Apsotles take care of the people). The Apostles share the Authority with these seven others. This is the beginning of an Ordained priesthood. So the Connection of Catholic Theology is thus.
Jesus gave his Authority to the Apostles
The Apostles shared their Authority with ordained ministers.
Jesus named the power to bind and loose, and forgiveness and retention of sins among the authorities he gave the Apostles. That power has been granted and shared in by the ordained Priest.
Another note should be made about the Catholic understanding of Confession. there are two ways to recieve this sacrament. the first is the ordinary way of physically going to the confession with a Priest and enumerating the sins in our life asking for God's forgiveness. The second is the extraordinary way, where to to extraordinary reason the sacrament of confession is not available then you can recieve the sacrament by desire. That is to say if someone has a perfect act of contrition, desiring God's forgiveness they will be forgiven. A perfect act of Contrition is being sorry for the offense one's sins Solely because it has disappointed God, and broke him commandments. The fear of punishment is not the reason for the contrition.
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