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Author
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Topic: Hell and punishment
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
quote:
The question was how can an all powerful being keep less powerful beings in pain for eternity.
Perhaps I can help you out here.
I will not use any scripture or verse to answer your question. Since you do not seem to want to hear verse or scripture I will use basic analogies to best try to describe the answer to your question.
Sin is a wicked thing that will not go unpunished.
Take a child that has done something wrong after being warned not to by the parents. The parent will then in turn take an action to discipline the child. Now while the child may think this discipline is unfair, because they don’t understand why they couldn’t do this thing in the first place. The parent understands why they are being punished, because even if there was no point to saying don’t do this thing, it was still a commandment from the parent that the child choose to break. Knowing full well what the repercussions were going to be.
In effect the child choose to be punished rather than to obey.
Final Thought:
You see… you ask a question of how can God do this? Well the answer to your question is simply this: God is not keeping the creation in pain for all eternity. The creation choose to be there. They knew the reprecutions of what would happen if they broke their parents (God’s) commandments, and they did it any way.
Deep down they were just hoping that God would say “It’s ok… come on in to my house and have fun. I am going to over look a life time of transgressions with out any sorrow from you. It is fine that millions of others worked hard to get here and did what they were supposed to. But I am sure they will understand that I am going to let you in. Now come on in and enjoy your stay.” PLEASE!
All in all…
If that answer was not satisfactory for you then how about this one:
God can do what he wants with the creation. We are his.
If you are a potter and you make two pots. One’s clay doesn’t sit well while the other does are you going to glorify the defective pot, or the one that was good?
WE are God’s. We choose. So choose what you want. Do you want Hell? Or do you want Heaven?
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Miguel
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Member # 47
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posted
quote:
Wrath is
"the personal manifestation of God’s holy, moral character in judgment against sin. Wrath is neither an impersonal process nor irrational and fitful like anger. It is in no way vindictive or malicious. It is holy indignation—God’s anger directed against sin. God’s wrath is an expression of His holy love. If God is not a God of wrath, His love is no more than frail, worthless sentimentality; the concept of mercy is meaningless; and the Cross was a cruel and unnecessary experience for His Son." (Nelson's new illustrated Bible dictionary. Nashville: T. Nelson) (See also Holman Bible Dictionary)
Paul addressing even "religious" readers who may not be truly regenerate warns that
"because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality (note: their deeds don't save them but are external evidence of internal regeneration), eternal life but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation." (Ro 2:5-8)
God is glorified in the display of His Wrath: In Romans 9 Paul asks the rhetorical question
"What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?" (Ro 9:22) John MacArthur comments that in this section of Romans Paul "gives two reasons for, although not a complete explanation of, God’s allowing sin to enter and contaminate His universe. The Greek term behind willing is much stronger than this English word connotes. The Greek word carries the idea of determined intent, not indifferent or helpless acquiescence. First, Paul says, God determined to allow sin in His creation because it gave Him the opportunity to demonstrate His wrath. God is glorified in displaying His wrath, just as surely as in displaying His grace, because both of those attributes, along with all the others, comprise His divine nature and character, which are perfectly and permanently self-consistent and are worthy of adoration and worship. Even God’s anger, vengeance, and retribution poured out on sinners are glorious, because they display His majestic holiness."
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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Miguel
Advanced Member
Member # 47
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posted
We learn from God and agree to this attributes
Solitariness, Decrees, Knowledge, Foreknowledge,
Supremacy, Sovereignty, Immutability, Holiness, Power, Faithfulness, Goodness, Patience, Grace, Mercy and the Love of God; but when it comes to the Wrath of God they cant understand! For the Wrath of God is One of His Attributes!! This is a reality that the natural man cannot understand until God releaved this unto they hearts..
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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posted
Jeremiah 10:7-9. An idol, says Jeremiah, is itself “a doctrine of vanities.” Paul states exactly the same truth for his dispensation, and it is the same to-day. To worship a work of God is blasphemy. “For that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie” (Romans 1:25 rv). The ungodly disposition in a man makes him worship beings or things or ideas in order to render them powerless, and the same idea is apt to creep into the worship of God amongst Christians if not watched—“God will never let this or that come to me; I am a favourite of His.” Jesus Christ’s life is an illustration as to how God will deal with us, He will not shield us from the world, the flesh or the devil, they are allowed to do their worst because God has staked His all on what He has done in us (see John 16:33; 1 John 4:4). Trials and tribulations are trumpet calls to the witnesses to God. Beware lest Satan steals a march; when the tribulations begin.
Paul emphasises the fact that God is a sovereign Being, not a sentimental blessing. The Bible instils iron into our nature, it leaves none of the weak, sentimental things we hold in such esteem. The Bible is packed full of the most stern truths, yet it is anything but pessimistic. The Hebrew Scriptures know nothing about overwhelming sadness, they are optimistic. The modern Christian mind is not nourished with the Bible, it is nourished with conceptions that ignore Jesus Christ.
Chambers, O. (1999, c1936). Notes on Jeremiah (electronic ed.). London: Oswald Chambers Publication Association, Ltd.
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
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posted
Hullo,
I have a tough question that i struggle with.
Once someone goes to hell they are in pain for eternity.
How can that be? What crime justifies eternal pain.
If a human hurts another that is a sin. But God can do it to billions of Souls for eternity quote:
Dear McJW;
THE BIBLE TELLS US SO!
YOU SEEM TO WANT TO FIND FAULT WITH GOD of THE JUDIAC-CHRISTIAN BIBLE. THE BIBLE IS QUITE SPECIFIC IN REGARDS TO THAT WHEN HE OR SHE REFUSES TO MEET GOD ON HIS TERMS, THE PERSON ALREADY SETS HIM UP FOR FAILURE. IT IS QUITE FIRM THAT THE ANSWER IS THE BIBLE TELLS US SO. YOU MUST HAVE COME TO A POINT IN YOUR LIFE THAT YOU ARE ANGRY WITH GOD PERHAPS BECAUSE OF PERSONAL LOSS IN YOU LIFE. BELIEVE I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS ALOT. THE VERY FIRST TIME I DEALT WITH HUMAN DEATH WAS WHEN I WAS 12 YEARS OLD. WHEN MY GRANDFATHER DIED; I KNEW I LOST A BIG PART OF ME, BUT I HAVE TO LET GO AND LET GOD BE WHO IS GOD AND ACCEPT IT. MY GRANDFATHER WAS A DEVOUT JEW, BUT I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF HIM EVER ACCEPTING JESUS AS HIS SAVIOUR, BUT I DO KNOW MY AUNT WOULD HAD TOLD HIM BECAUSE SHE WAS THE FIRST IN OUR LEANAGE THAT I KNOW THAT BECAME A BELIEVER THAT JESUS WAS THE MESSIAH PROMISED TO REDEEM MANKIND FROM THE PENALTY OF THEIR SINS WHICH IS ETERNAL SEPERATION FROM GOD IN HEAVEN.
I HOPE AND PRAY THAT ONE DAY THAT YOU WILL FIND PEACE IN YOUR HEART CONCERNING THIS. I PRAY THAT ONE DAY YOU MEET GOD ON HIS TERMS. REGARDLESS THE HISTORY OF GOD CAN NOT BE DENIED.
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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KnowHim
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mjcw:
Ok - so what is being said here -
1 - If an inconvenient question is asked its ok to avoid it or answer another question that was not asked.
Your question was directly answered. You will be removed from this message board if you want to continue to be so hateful.
You are trying to create a god to suite yourself, but you will not get me to agree with you. You will answer for you and I will answer for me.
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
Mjcw
New Member
Member # 5902
Icon 19 posted July 09, 2006 08:05 PM Profile for Mjcw Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Ok - so what is being said here -
1 - If an inconvenient question is asked its ok to avoid it or answer another question that was not asked.
2 - If you can't answer the question you threaten the questioner with hell.
3 - The question was how can an all powerful being keep less powerful beings in pain for eternity.
4 - No question was asked how to avoid hell!!!!
5 - No question was asked about long irrelevant pieces of scripture!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6 - Some Christian religions believe in a hell where those in hell are "seperated from God". At least defensible.
7- Fundamentalist Christians (and Islamists) believe in a God who allows torture with no reprieve.
8 - Clearly those people believe that might makes right - if you are strong enough it is OK to allow pain for eternity.
9 - By their own defintion they do not believe in God as God must be just and no amount of dancing on the head of a pin can make it just to cause pain for all eternity.
10 - They believe in a very powerful being but one who allows torture cannot be God. It is reasonable that a powerful being may exist and that that being allows hell as described but he is a long way short of a God.
11 - If man tortures other men he goes to hell to be tortored himself and that is just?
There is no doubt that no one has been able to justify eternal pain for those in hell.
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1) There is no doubt that you have rejected the answers which were given.
The rejection of Christ condemns oneself to Hell.
2) There is no doubt that the Word of God is true, and that the Lord Jesus Christ has spoken and that if you continue to reject Jesus you will find out for yourself the reality of Hell.
John 3:
14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19: And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21: But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
There is salvation of your eternal soul ONLY IN JESUS. Continue to reject Jesus and there is no alternative for your soul.
Romans 10:
8: But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14: How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15: And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16: But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
The TRUTH is to be found in God's Word, that is why it is being quoted. But man has been rejecting the Word for thousands of years and will continue to do so until the the Truth casts eternal judgement upon them.
John 1:
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: The same was in the beginning with God.
3: All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4: In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5: And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6: There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7: The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8: He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9: That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10: He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11: He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Mjcw
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Ok - so what is being said here -
1 - If an inconvenient question is asked its ok to avoid it or answer another question that was not asked.
2 - If you can't answer the question you threaten the questioner with hell.
3 - The question was how can an all powerful being keep less powerful beings in pain for eternity.
4 - No question was asked how to avoid hell!!!!
5 - No question was asked about long irrelevant pieces of scripture!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6 - Some Christian religions believe in a hell where those in hell are "seperated from God". At least defensible.
7- Fundamentalist Christians (and Islamists) believe in a God who allows torture with no reprieve.
8 - Clearly those people believe that might makes right - if you are strong enough it is OK to allow pain for eternity.
9 - By their own defintion they do not believe in God as God must be just and no amount of dancing on the head of a pin can make it just to cause pain for all eternity.
10 - They believe in a very powerful being but one who allows torture cannot be God. It is reasonable that a powerful being may exist and that that being allows hell as described but he is a long way short of a God.
11 - If man tortures other men he goes to hell to be tortored himself and that is just?
There is no doubt that no one has been able to justify eternal pain for those in hell.
Posts: 5 | From: NZ | Registered: Jul 2006
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
quote:
The truth is, God does not arbitrarily send people to hell. They choose to go there. And nobody is more heartbroken over this than God:
Amen David!
I am very visual and the way I see it is like this... every human born is born already bound for hell... like men drowning in the salty sea of sin.
The thing about salt is when your in the middle of taking it in it seems good. Once you stop consuming it for a while you realize that it really does not taste that good.
So there they are drowning, going under again and again taking in the salty water and God throws us a life boat.. a life jacket... but we must put ON HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.... We must put on CHRIST...
If we realize that we are drowning... we take the life jacket.. be get in the boat. Those who dont, dont because they do not believe that they are drowning.... they like the taste of the salt water and they gulp it down with joy till it fills their very lungs and they drown in their own sin...when just in from of them was a boat they could have climbed in or a vest they could have put on.
2nd Peter 3:3 ¶ Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 ¶ But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 ¶ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us–ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 ¶ Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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Just another thought on the question:
According to God's infallible Word, yes. This frequently asked question implies that God is somehow unfair because many people end up in hell. He is not. The truth is, God does not arbitrarily send people to hell. They choose to go there. And nobody is more heartbroken over this than God:
The Lord is not… willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
God loves you and does not want you in hell:
As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked… Ezekiel 33:11
Because God loves us so much, He paid the ultimate price to spare us from hell. He sent His only Son, Jesus Christ, to die a torturous death on the cross so we could escape hell's flames.
However, in His perfect love, God also gives us a free will. We can accept or reject His escape hatch from hell. If we reject it and burn, it is our fault, not God's.
Imagine an inmate sitting on death row. He is about to be executed when the warden appears at his cell with an official pardon signed by the governor. All this condemned man must do is accept the pardon and he can waltz out of prison a free man. But suppose he rejects the pardon and is executed. Is it the governor's fault? No. He did everything he could, but his offer was rejected.
Our eternal destiny is the same. We can accept God's offer, or we can reject it and suffer the consequences. The choice is ours. What could be more fair? Soon, you will have an opportunity to choose heaven as your eternal home. If you stop reading and do nothing, hell is where you will go.
From:
http://www.chick.com/reading/books/136/136_02.asp
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The sentence to hell is irrevocable- it is a damnation that is forever - eternal...Once damned to hell and sent, one cannot be undamned..
Mr 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
The punishment is irreversible - ever lasting...
2 Thes 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
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Judgement is forever... not changing... eternally lasting...
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
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Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
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The fire (of hell and of judgement) is never quenched... it is eternal.. it burns forever...
Mt 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
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Those who accept the mark of the beast....
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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posted
John 3:
14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eduardo Grequi
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Member # 3984
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posted
You sound like JOB- Take time to read the book of JOB!
Human beings causes pain! People perceive pain whether it is real or not!
Likewise GOD DOES NOT STAND IN JUDGEMENT OF ANY! AND WHEN I SAY GOD,I am talking about the GOD OF ABRAHAM, OF ISAAC, OF JACOB! Many say all faiths lead to heaven- I say without Jesus, there is no heaven!
IT IS ALL THE MATTER OF FAITH!
THERE IS ONLY ONE SIN THAT SENDS YOU TO HELL AND THAT IS THE Sin OF UNBELIEF!
In flaming fire , taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord, who shall be punished with everlasting retribution away from the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ-2 Thess. 1:8 & 9
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by Mjcw:
Thanks for the replies, especially the only one that undertand that the question is very specific - but still no answer - how can God allow eternal pain to billions of weaker beings, no matter what their crime?
That is cruelty.
First of all. God is God and you are not. Who are you to question God? He made you and me and we are here to server Him. He is not here to server you or ansswer to you. He has offered everyone the FREE gift of salvation. If YOU choose to go to hell, then you will go to hell because you chose to, not because God sent you there.
But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ “ Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
Romans 9:20-21 (NIV)
Those who say that are right: their "god" would never create hell, because he couldn’t. He doesn’t exist. He is a figment of their imagination, a god they have created to suit themselves. It’s called "idolatry". Idolaters will not inherit the kingdom of God. The one true God, however, could and did create hell for those who reject His mercy. They will reap His just wrath.
Sinners often accuse God of being unjust, because they assume that everyone will receive the same punishment in hell. God’s judgment, however, will be according to righteousness (Acts 17:31). This verse shows that there will be degrees of punishment. See also Mark 6:11.
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In hell the wicked suffer the punishment of sense. Those who are not saved by Jesus Christ will suffer eternal torment. “And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Then he cried and said, ‘...I am tormented in this flame’” (Lk. 16:23-24). The Greek word for torment (basanos) often described hideous instruments of torture used in extracting information from prisoners. The word also depicted the severe pain caused by disease. When used of the torments of hell it is descriptive of the grievous pains of both body and soul in hell. “The master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, and will cut him in two [lit., torture or severely scourge him] and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Mt. 24:50-51).
The Bible sets before us many differing aspects of the torments in hell as a warning. The torments of hell help us to understand how much God hates sin. These torments also help us to understand just how precious is the saving, cleansing blood of Jesus Christ: “You [Christians] were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot” (1 Pet. 1:18-19). Oh what dreadful torments await those who die without Christ!
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Kindgo
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posted
Hell is God reluctantly granting non-Christians their wish.
Ultimately, life and every desirable thing comes from the God who created every molecule that we see, feel, enjoy and misuse.
Even sin’s fickle pleasure, that elusive shadow of the real thing seized while defying him, is possible only because the Son of God lovingly created his haters with the ability to experience pleasure.
Non-Christians push Jesus aside, yet in his extravagant love Jesus keeps giving and giving.
They don’t want him meddling in their lives, but he keeps forcing himself upon them, showering them with gifts of life and pleasure.
In hell they finally get their way. To be granted separation from the Source of every good and beautiful thing, however, is a terrifying prospect.
A different view: In the western world the concept of a God of love pops up so often that we forget the source of this notion. The only way of truly knowing that God is love is through the revelation of Jesus and the Bible, both of which lovingly and emphatically warn of hell’s grim reality.
Come or go, your choice.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
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Mjcw
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Thanks for the replies, especially the only one that undertand that the question is very specific - but still no answer - how can God allow eternal pain to billions of weaker beings, no matter what their crime?
That is cruelty.
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Kindgo
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What about those who haven't heard?
Romans 1:19-20 says, "That which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."
This means that everyone has some knowledge of God, which is revealed through creation. If you look at a skyscraper you know that an architect designed it and someone built it, even though you weren't there to see it constructed. The complexity of the world reveals a Divine intelligence and Creator behind it.
Romans 2:14-15 gives us some more insight. God places a conscience within everyone to know right from wrong. "For when the Gentiles (pagans) who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them. This means that God will judge those who haven't heard according to how they followed their consciences.
Jesus died for "the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2:2). He then commissioned His disciples to preach this good news to the entire world. Until that goal is accomplished, God will deal with those who haven't heard about Jesus according to their hearts. "In every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him" (Acts 10:35). God will judge those who haven't heard according to how they followed the revelation that was given to them.
The real question is what about those who have heard about Jesus? You must either accept or reject Him.
Come or go, your choice.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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Kindgo
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"God made me like this. Sin is His fault!"
If this won’t work in a civil court, it certainly won’t work on Judgment Day.
Even with an expert defense lawyer, it would take a pretty inept judge to fall for the old "God made me do it" defense.
We are responsible moral agents. The "buck" stopped at Adam. He tried to blame both God and Eve for his sin; Eve blamed the serpent.
It is human nature to try, but it doesn’t work with God.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
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Mjcw
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Hi,
With all due repect that doesn't answer the question.
The answers provided say -
There is a hell - not doubted.
How to avoid hell - not doubted.
That God does not "send" one to hell - if God is all powerful then he permits less powerful beings to be in pain for eternity.
The tough question which no one has ever been able to answer is what crime can justify eternal pain.
- If a human causes pain it is a sin.
- No matter how henious the crime no human suggests keeping someone alive just to torture them!
- It is possible that a more powerful being could allow billions of other souls to be in pain for all time but that is not just, therefore that being cannot be a God.
- Hell as taken literally from the Bible is unimaginable cruelty.
- If as one writer has it that all who do not accept Christianity (and many Christians say that you have to accept their particular brand of Christianity) go to Hell, then there are souls that are in perpetual pain who were born before Christianity existed. How can that be just?
This s a legitmate question - we are not debating if hell exists or how to avoid hell etc, we are debating how can beings who have done no wrong be put in eternal pain?
And even if they have done wrong how can they be punished eternally.
Thanks,
Mark
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KnowHim
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Who did God create Hell For?
Look at (Matt 25:41) and note that it was not created for Mankind – But for Satan and his demons.
So do we take from this that men do not go to Hell?
– No, we know that men do go to Hell because Jesus told us they do in (Luke 16)
So what does this tell us?
– Only that God did not create Hell for Man, therefore, we understand that it was never God’s intention for man to be in Hell.
So why does man go to Hell then?
– Because like Satan and his demons, man chose to rebel against God – He chose to set himself up, in his own heart, as the authority rather than God
Since man can not go to Heaven with his sin debt unpaid
And since he cannot live on the earth indefinitely because of the curse of death and since man is an eternal being who, once born, never ceases to exist
If he rejects the only path provided for sins to be forgiven – then Hell is all that remains because he has rejected Christ, the only payment for his debt of sin
What is the Purpose of Hell?
- (Matt 25:46) And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” – Church the purpose of Hell is one thing – Punishment
Some think of Hell as Jail or a Prison
– Hell is nothing like that – In our country the purpose of Jails and Prisons is Correction In the United States, when a person commits a crime and they are sentenced to so many years in Prison, while there may be an element of punishment involved, the primary purpose of that sentence is to hopefully teach that person a lesson
The goal is that the offender will be rehabilitated, perhaps even educated and that one day, having served their sentence and learned their lesson, they will walk free from that prison to walk the streets again a free and productive member of society.
But Hell isn’t like that at all – there is no hope that the offender will be rehabilitated – there is no hope that the person will learn their lesson
The sole purpose, and what takes place at all times in Hell is punishment.
How Long does Hell last? – Vs 46 says - And these will go away into everlasting punishment… - Hell is eternal
There is no chance for parole – no chance of escape – no 2nd chance.
Those who leave this world without the Grace of God upon their lives through Jesus Christ spend all of eternity in the torments of Hell never to escape, never to receive reprieve.
Not Everyone Believes In Hell – 3 Philosophical Objects To Hell
Many say that modern Biblical scholarship denies the existence of Hell.
You can travel to many of the mainline denominational seminaries today and find PhD Professors who will tell you that recent discoveries in Biblical studies show that Hell is not a literal place where people go.
But I don’t need a PhD to understand that if you take the Bible at face value – Using the time-tested tools of Biblical Interpretation – That it absolutely declares in no-uncertain terms that Hell is a literal place, and that real people who reject Christ go there after this life
It’s not Biblical Scholarship that denies the existence of Hell – But rather faithless men and women who are filled with Human sentimentality who deny the existence of God.
Many say God is too loving to send anyone to Hell.
It is true that God is loving – (John 3:16) God so loved the world that He have His only begotten Son that whosoever believes on Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
It is true that God does not send people to Hell – The truth of (John 3:16) tells us that God has done everything He can, to keep us from going to Hell.
He has given us revelation about Hell to warn us not to go there
He has given us His Holy Spirit to convict us about our sin and to help us see Christ as the answer.
He sent His only Son to bear our sins on the Cross and to die in our place so that we could be forgiven of our many sins against Him
The truth of the matter is – God doesn’t send man to Hell – If a man goes to Hell it’s because he chose to go there himself – And he made that choice for Hell by rejecting the only answer God has provided to Hell – Jesus Christ His Son.
It may be rightly said that God IS too loving to SEND man to Hell – But let me say that is can also be rightly said that God is too JUST to allow a man to reject the sacrifice of His Son and come into Heaven
God does not send people to Hell – But He does allow them to Go there if they reject His offer of salvation through Jesus Christ.
Many say that Jesus’ nature and character are opposed to the concept of Hell.
Again, this is utterly false – Remember that the text (Luke 16) and the things we discovered in (Matt 25) come directly from the lips of Christ
In fact Jesus talked more about Hell in his life than He did about Heaven, He talked more about Hell than He did about His Father, Jesus spoke more about Hell than He did The Holy Spirit
Why did Jesus speak so much about Hell? – Because it was to keep people out of Hell that He came to earth.
There are many objections that people raise about the reality, existence and finality of Hell – but in the end they all are shown to be false in the light of God’s Word and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Hell & Heaven: every persons eternal destiny
When you look at that title, do you notice anything strange? – Normally people say Heaven & Hell – Not – Hell & Heaven
This is purposely put it this way because I’m afraid that many assume that the first word in that phrase is the Default and the Second word is the possible option.
Heaven, Default – Hell, only if I mess up bad enough.
Have you ever taken a class where the teach said, “everybody here starts out with an “A”, only if you fail to do the work will you get a lesser grade”?
The eternal realities of Hell and Heaven are not like that at all – the reality in this arena is that Everybody is on their way to Hell – only if you accept the sacrifice of Christ for Sin and Surrender to His Lordship will you receive Heaven
In other words – Everybody starts out with an “F” (Hell) – If you want an “A” (Heaven), you must by faith trust in Christ is the only pathway to Heaven.
Jesus said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” (John 14:6)
We are go through all the expense, time, energy and heartache to tell people about Jesus and His sacrifice for them . What about you – Have you trusted in Jesus as your Lord and Savior?
It’s a question you must consider because, your life on earth will not last long and when it comes to a close Only Hell or Heaven await
Only those who Trust in Christ will be in Heaven – All others go to Hell.
Also see: http://hellspassion.com
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Kindgo
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Matthew 25:41 tells us hell was originally created for the devil and his angels as a place of punishment from them.
Matthew 25:31-46 says people will also go to this horrible place. Because God is holy and righteous, He must judge sin.
But God is also loving and gracious, and provided a way of salvation through Jesus Christ so that no one has to go to hell.
God is not willing that any should perish in hell, but wants everyone to repent ( 2 Peter 3:9).
Jesus Christ took the punishment for your sins on the cross and by accepting Him as your Lord, He will give you eternal life. If you reject Jesus, you must pay for your own sins forever in the lake of fire (Rev. 20:15).
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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Mjcw
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Hullo,
I have a tough question that i struggle with.
Once someone goes to hell they are in pain for eternity.
How can that be? What crime justifies eternal pain.
If a human hurts another that is a sin. But God can do it to billions of Souls for eternity.
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