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Author
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Topic: The Gender Gap: Can Women Be In Authority
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Before God caused Adam to fall in a deep sleep, he wasn't a male in our sense of the word, he was a human being. God didn't call them male and female until after he created Eve.
Interesting! Paul assigned duties for women to assist in the church. Look at Phoebe, she was a deacon/ess,( some reports say that they are one and the same). Priscilla had equal billing along with her husband Aquila in teaching new converts to assist Paul
In the OT Deborah was a judge?? Oh my ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Happy New Year! May The Father of Lights, light up your soul with His Son, Jesus the Light of the World. God Bless. ![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif)
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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saved1948
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posted
Women did alot of wonderous things in the Bible. And women were highly respected in the Bible. For instance first to see that Jesus had risen was women.Women can teach in the church. But personally I do think the Bible states that they should not be pastors. Although this is debated through out the church.<><
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John 3:16+6\[/p..................For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,that whoever believed in Him should not perish but have everlasting life
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Before God caused Adam to fall in a deep sleep, he wasn't a male in our sense of the word, he was a human being. God didn't call them male and female until after he created Eve.
Interesting! Paul assigned duties for women to assist in the church. Look at Phoebe, she was a deacon/ess,( some reports say that they are one and the same). Priscilla had equal billing along with her husband Aquila in teaching new converts to assist Paul
In the OT Deborah was a judge?? Oh my
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Miguel:
From time to time I ponder on the thought of why Christ in His three-year ministry here on earth did not choose a female to be part of the 13 apostles He personally chose for His glory. Knowing that there is no respect of persons in His sight! There was few females at that time, but He chose only men to be (a) foundation not the (Foundation) of the New Testament church as heads and not females, after all He does sayest we are all a body!
What can we learn from Gen 2:23 that said unto us by God; And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
What thinkest thou In this matter..
In Christ Jesus
Bro. MAC
I think that God took DNA (rib) out of Adam's DNA to create woman. Notice that man's DNA is XY, and is missing a (piece) while woman's is XX. Woman received that extra piece and are literally composed of the same bone and flesh as men.
God didn't take it out of man's foot. He took it from Adam's side, and this where the woman is supposed to be. Beside the man, not under him.
Before God caused Adam to fall in a deep sleep, he wasn't a male in our sense of the word, he was a human being. God didn't call them male and female until after he created Eve.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
quote:
What thinkest thou In this matter..
I believe that God has ordained at the time of the fall that as long as we live in bodies of flesh where sin resides, man is to rule over woman. I believe that this is necessary because of sin that resides in the flesh.
Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
I dont see this as a punishment, but as a statement of fact of what God ordained and what was the best thing for mankind who would now live with sin in the flesh. I dont see that it will be necessary in our glorifed spiritual bodies.
It is a punishment. Look at how woman have been treated throughout history. Even the Jews before Christ's coming prayed that they were thankful that they were born a man and not a Gentile or a woman.
Jesus' ministry uplifted women. Who did He allow to be the first to see the empty tomb and Resurrected Christ? Paul named many woman who were prominent in the ministry. Paul would NEVER have done that as a Pharisee.
When Paul describes the hiarchy of power with the man as the head, notice he describes a "servant-leader". The man is to love his wife as himself, and nuture her and support her. Not dominate or rule over her in absolute power.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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WhiteEagle
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posted
I believe that woman can be in authority. It is God-given. Paul says that we are all equal in Christ, there is neither bond or free etc.
Being born again reverses the Curse as Jesus paID THE PRICE AND HUNG ON A TREE(THE CROSS).
In Genesis chapter 1, It says that God created (adam) which means in the Hebrew (human being) both male and female He created them.
He granted to both equally to have dominion over the earth and creatures on the earth.
After the Fall, God cursed Eve and told her that she would desire her husband's power, but he would dominate her.
So in the cursed and fallen and unsaved world this is true. Men have dominated and abused women since that day.
So it ought not to be in the Redeemed of Christ.
We are not under the curse any longer and woman is able to reclaim her rightful place beside man and not behind or under him.
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epouraniois
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posted
I think there are no female angels. That in order to make a female, God took that curve (dna) from the male. The nature of the angels that fell is that they partook of strange flesh. They are called sons of God. They took daughters of men, see Gen. 6.
Christ said angels niether are given or taken in marriage.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
Amen, yes MAC that is how I see it.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Miguel
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Member # 47
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posted
quote:
helpforhomeschoolers:
I dont see that it will be necessary in our glorifed spiritual bodies.
No, not at all but it will in this manner!
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
It is sown in this world a merely animal body - Maintained by food, sleep, and air, like the bodies of brutes: but it is raised of a more refined contexture, needing none of these animal refreshments, and endued with qualities of a spiritual nature, like the angels of God.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Phi 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
God have a order that He, Himself follow for His own glory!
Praise God..
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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Miguel
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Member # 47
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posted
So, if I am reading correct homes; God have establish a order to be follow. Correct!
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
quote:
What thinkest thou In this matter..
I believe that God has ordained at the time of the fall that as long as we live in bodies of flesh where sin resides, man is to rule over woman. I believe that this is necessary because of sin that resides in the flesh.
Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
I dont see this as a punishment, but as a statement of fact of what God ordained and what was the best thing for mankind who would now live with sin in the flesh. I dont see that it will be necessary in our glorifed spiritual bodies.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Miguel
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Member # 47
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posted
From time to time I ponder on the thought of why Christ in His three-year ministry here on earth did not choose a female to be part of the 13 apostles He personally chose for His glory. Knowing that there is no respect of persons in His sight! There was few females at that time, but He chose only men to be (a) foundation not the (Foundation) of the New Testament church as heads and not females, after all He does sayest we are all a body!
What can we learn from Gen 2:23 that said unto us by God; And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
What thinkest thou In this matter..
In Christ Jesus
Bro. MAC
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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epouraniois
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by shadowmaker:
My wife just recently got mad at me for pointing this out in a discussion with her. It doesnt matter whether you believe God is "bias gender" or not. It says in Gods word that preachers,deacons, etc are suppose to be men. I am not saying God wont use women but men are suppose to be leaders of the church. Dont try to twist Gods word to mean something it doesnt just bc you dont agree with it.
Brad
If this is directed at me, and it IS directed at someone, then I can only say that I thought I was quoting Scripture.
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shadowmaker
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My wife just recently got mad at me for pointing this out in a discussion with her. It doesnt matter whether you believe God is "bias gender" or not. It says in Gods word that preachers,deacons, etc are suppose to be men. I am not saying God wont use women but men are suppose to be leaders of the church. Dont try to twist Gods word to mean something it doesnt just bc you dont agree with it.
Brad
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epouraniois
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posted
Women were prominent and a rich feature life of the Christ, and in the witness in the Lords resurrection, housing in faith those apostles made ready to go forth and preach the good news to Israel (Act_1:14). They were eminent, as in the case of Dorcas, in charity and good deeds (Act_9:36); foremost in prayer, like Mary the mother of John, who assembled the disciples at her home to pray for Peter's deliverance (Act_12:12). Priscilla is equally gifted with her husband as an expounder of “the way of God,” and instructor of Apollos (Act_18:26), and as Paul's “fellow-worker in Christ” (Rom_16:3). The daughters of Philip were prophetesses (Act_21:8, Act_21:9). The first convert in Europe was a woman, Lydia of Thyatira, whose hospitality made a home for Paul and a meeting-place for the infant church (Act_16:14). Women, as truly as men, were recipients of the charismatic gifts of Christianity. The apostolic greetings in the Epistles give them a place of honor. The church at Rome seems to have been blessed with a goodly number of gifted and consecrated women, inasmuch as Paul in the closing salutations of his Epistles sends greetings to at least eight prominent in Christian activity: Phoebe, Prisca, Mary “who bestowed much labor on you,” Tryphena and Tryphosa, Persis, Julia, and the sister of Nereus (Rom_16:1, Rom_16:3, Rom_16:6, Rom_16:12, Rom_16:15). To no women did the great apostle feel himself more deeply indebted than to Lois and Eunice, grandmother and mother of Timothy, whose “faith unfeigned” and ceaseless instructions from the holy Scriptures (2Ti_1:5; 2Ti_3:14, 2Ti_3:15) gave him the most “beloved child” and assistant in his ministry. Their names have been conspicuous in Christian history for maternal love, spiritual devotion and fidelity in teaching the Word of God. See also CLAUDIA.
Phoebe (Rom_16:1) was evidently a deaconess, whom Paul terms “a servant of the church,” “a helper of many” and of himself also. Those women who “labored with me in the gospel” (Phi_4:3) undoubtedly participated with him in preaching. Later on, the apostle used his authority to stay this privilege, when “usurping authority over the man” (1Ti_2:12). Even though he bases his argument for woman's keeping silence in public worship on Adam's priority of creation and her priority in transgression (1Ti_2:13, 1Ti_2:14), the apostle gives the woman reasurrance as fellow partakers of the exceeding riches in the church of the one body, yet maintains that the man is the head of the woman just as Christ was the covering for her during the kingdom hope of Israel during the Acts.
The calling of the church is to a full grown man, the word for man not the usual anthropos, but aner or husband, being the body of Christ - the example is that the husband is the head of the woman and they are one body, just as Christ is head of the church called to be a full grown aner, His body.
The following verses are normally altered by that which is 'public worship', but we desire God's understanding, not the pulpits oration right?
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
(the union making them one body) The dative plural case shows that the verb is understood from v.21, submiting selves one to another in equality by which the unity was made, namely marriage.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, (and here is the contrast) even as Christ is the head of the church: (as the husband is to the woman, Christ is to His body) and he is the savior of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
This is saying love like this, for ye are one even as the body (church) is one with the head (Christ). The subject is not marriage. Not the man and the woman. It is the head and the body being introduced as the revealed closest relationship ever presented, and in this body all are equal in the terms of the absolute.
This does not say the church is the woman, so men love the church as your wife. Satan has twisted these verses at every opportunity to keep us from realizing His blessed hope.
The idea which unfolds has multiple levels of teaching, the surface is that the woman is not left out of the one hope of His calling due to gender, both are called into this newly created church body. The reassurance to the woman seeing Christ calls the church to be not a wife, not a bride, but a man, His body.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives,
even as
Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
This is the practical section, the practice of what we learned in the doctrine of ch's1-3.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
AND HERE IS THE CONTRAST AGAIN
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth (brood over in caring love) it,
even as
the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we (BOTH GENDERS) are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Not a marriage relationship, but one of head to body.
Christ sees us, irregardless of gender, as being His body, contrasting gthat which was the closest relationship made known until this dispensational secret was revealed, which was that of husband and wife, so He uses this to show forth by way of contrasting the two to make known the one, new, and even closer,in fact, the closest relationship ever revealed, for what is closer than head and body?
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
(even as the head is one with the body) Again, this does not state Chrsit is marrying the church. The church is never called a woman, a wife, a bride, a she, a her, or any other word but that of a man. All those terms are reserved for Israel throughout Scripture, even in Revelation.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Of course it is a great mystery, He is not speaking of husband and wife, but of head and body, for if the church was the bride or the wife instead of Israel it would be a travisty to Scripture because Israsel from the beginning holds that relationship to Christ. The entire church body being now built up is for an heavenly calling, was a secret hid in God, and never refers to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Never refers the church body to the earthly inheritance or that of New Jerusalem. They teach it, but the verses are conspiquoulsy absent because this is not the same relationship as Rev20, &c. It is a newly revealed relationship.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
Being so great a secret, it is now revealed that all are equal so love each other the same way that Christ loves His body and gave Himself for it.
This is quite different than the relationship during the Acts where the women had their own seperate court,the gentiles awaiting outside the middle wall of partition. In Eph2, the doctrinal section, we learned that Christ has broken down that middle wall of partition which had existed between unequal members during the Acts period.
Col 3:1
If (the condition is assumed as fact) ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
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yahsway
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1 Timothy chapter 3
This is a faithful saying; If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.
A bishop must be blamless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach: not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;
one who rules his own house well, having his own children in submission with all reverence, for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?
Titus chapter 2
But as for you, speak the things which are proper for doctrine: that the older men be sober, reverent, temperate, sound in faith, in love, in patience. the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things, that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands that the word of God may not be blasphemed.
Genesis 3:16
To the woman He said:
"I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you."
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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mom2jules
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
We only need to look to Genesis to see if Yahweh is Gender-bias or not.
Men should be priest and leaders in their homes first, even before and above any assembly. They must be able to run their own households well before running an assembly.
Women also should teach the younger women as scriptures say. I have no problem with women teaching in the assembly as long as they are under a male headship. This is scriptural.
I believe scripture in the NT is clear on the gender responsabilities in an assembly gathering.
I guess we have to agree to disagree...God Bless and Merry Christmas ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me
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yahsway
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posted
We only need to look to Genesis to see if Yahweh is Gender-bias or not.
Men should be priest and leaders in their homes first, even before and above any assembly. They must be able to run their own households well before running an assembly.
Women also should teach the younger women as scriptures say. I have no problem with women teaching in the assembly as long as they are under a male headship. This is scriptural.
I believe scripture in the NT is clear on the gender responsabilities in an assembly gathering.
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mom2jules
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posted
I believe that women can be a major role ( preacher, pastor..etc.) in teh church. I have been inspired by a few women preachers. I don;t think God is gender bias.
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I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me
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chaoschristian
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This was orignally posted on another thread on the board:
becauseHelives wrote:
quote:
1. First must be a man (not a woman, a woman can not be in authority at all in the Church))
It was originally written in response to a question about whether or not a divorced man could be a deacon in a particular church.
Which leads me to the question, "Oh really?"
Is it scriptural truth that a woman cannot be in authority in The Church (note use of capital letters) Is all of heaven split along gender lines? And if it is true, then why would God bother to create women who have obvious leadership qualities? And why would he create men who have none? And before you say it, yes I know we each have talents, etc, etc, etc. That's not the point here. The point is that if this gender seperation is true, then there ought to be an observerable difference between men and women. In other words, there should be a meaningul, significant statistical difference between the leadership acuity of men and women, with men being demonstrably more suited towards leadership then women. Is this the case?
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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