|
Author
|
Topic: I Never Knew You
|
KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
|
posted
23 And then will I profess unto them—or, openly proclaim. The verb means “to make confession”—in the legal sense, “to bear witness.” Here, Jesus is functioning as a judge. I never knew you—The Greek word for “know” is used in the NT for personal knowledge, intimate knowledge. Christ here claims that he did not have any personal relationship with these who claimed to be his servants. In effect, Christ said, “Our acquaintance, our relationship was not broken off; there never was any.” It should also be noted that the words “I never knew you” were used by rabbis to banish people. depart from me—cf. 25:41. The connection here gives these words an awful significance. They claimed intimacy with Christ and in the corresponding passage, Luke 13:26, are represented as having been on familiar terms with him. Jesus’ words came from Psalm 6:8. ye that work iniquity—lit., lawlessness.” Their works were not authorized by Christ. (See the almost identical, but even more vivid and awful, description of the scene in Luke 13:24-27.) Paul alluded to these words in 2 Timothy 2:19—“Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
From: New Commentary on the Whole Bible
--------------------
Video Tracts
Christian Media
LiveTracts
Friend Me On Facebook
Evangelism TackleBox
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
|
posted
Title: Wiersbe's Expository Outlines on the New Testament
"False prophets” does not only mean false preachers who proclaim a false gospel, but primarily false professors of faith in Christ. Their inward nature has not changed (see 2 Peter 1:4); they merely wear the outward guise of a sheep. They call Christ “Lord” and even do religious deeds, but they have not been saved! How do we detect these false believers? “You will know them by their fruits” (v. 16, NKJV). What fruits does Christ seek? He seeks: (1) the fruit of the Spirit, or Christian character as described in the Beatitudes and Gal. 5:22-23; (2) the fruit of the lips, testimony and praise to God (Heb. 13:15); (3) holy living (Rom. 6:22); (4) good works (Col. 1:10); (5) lost souls won to Christ (Rom. 1:13). Professing Christians may be involved in religious activities and pretend to be saved, but if they are honestly born again, they will reveal these fruits in daily life.
Note that these “counterfeits” are surprised at the judgment! It is possible to fool ourselves! Satan blinds the mind (2 Cor. 4:3-4) and deceives people into thinking they are saved. When Christ returns, millions of professing Christians will be surprised to find out they were never saved at all!
--------------------
Video Tracts
Christian Media
LiveTracts
Friend Me On Facebook
Evangelism TackleBox
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
Linda
I understand what you are saying about some Christian Org that feed people, but don't give out the gospel, but I think you are judging a little harshly.
People will only know Christ by our works of compassion toward them, especially when people are in dire straight and need food or shelter, which are basic needs. If we as Christians force our religion upon them when they are so helpless it will appear we are charging them to listen to our gospel so they can get food. It appears to outsiders we are making merchandise and taking advantage of people in needy circumstances.
If we say we come in Christ's name, that is enough. If we come and don't put any requirements on people to receive food except out of love and concern, I believe God will bless it and that person may later become interested in KNowing what this Christianity is all about.
Preaching the gospel is for those who are willing to listen. Acts of compassion and love is what our walk is about and how we can reach others.
We can't be putting restrictions on God's love and make people take a track to get some food.
Jesus said he who gives someone a drink of water in His name, is the same thing as giving it to Christ.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
Here's the verses again:
Matthew 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'"
Jesus only states that these people claim to have cast out demons in His name, Jesus doesn't say that they actually accomplished this.
These people are deceived, and believe they are saved and are functioning under a delusion and think they are doing spiritual things in Jesus name, yet they really are NOT.
These people think they are saved, but are not saved in the first place, as they do not Know Jesus, so He doesn't know them.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
You bring up a good point Aaron about the ones in Acts who were overcome by the demonic using Jesus' name.
So what does Jesus mean when He says He never knew those who cast out demons in His name?
It appears to have the authority at all one must be a born again person who has the Holy Spirit or Christ in them.
So are those who seem to be able to cast out demons, saved at that time, but later are not saved due to their falling away?
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Aaron
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Demons will come out at the authority of hIS name no matter who calls on it. They are doing the things that t hey see they should be doing, but they are works of their own flesh...trying to be good and not HIS works.
Hi Linda and Born Again:
To me, this is the clincher.
"Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, "We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches." Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.
And the evil spirit answered and said, "Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?"
Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded."
Here, heathens use the name of Jesus (the *real* Jesus, for the demons knew him) with dire consequences: the demon overpowered and prevailed against the men.
So, no, heathens cannot cast out demons by using the name of Jesus...authority and power are necessary for such things. And the Spirit cannot be coerced into the employment of men for fleshly desires.
Furthermore, there is this:
"When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, "Deaf and dumb spirit, I command you, come out of him and enter him no more!" Then the spirit cried out, convulsed him greatly, and came out of him. And he became as one dead, so that many said, "He is dead." But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose.
And when He had come into the house, His disciples asked Him privately, "Why could we not cast it out?"
So He said to them, "This kind can come out by nothing but prayer *and fasting."
Without going too much into this here I simply want to make this point: If we are to take part in the Lord's work we will need to be prepared by Him first. The character of a man is proportional to the Lord's working through him. Without the proper character such power (from on high) would corrupt a man. Heathens, those who have not been trained by the Lord, are unable to handle the power and authority of the Lord.
Bless you friends,
Aaron
IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
I agree that they are not backslidden Christians. but I believe that they believe that they are christians.
Ro 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
This tells us that those who are going to be conformed/transformed, are those who were known to HIM beforehand. Known to him from the beginning when the books were written.
Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
This tells me that they were not among the foreknown.
Today, we see literally millions that are being called to what is not God and Christ and HIS gospel and cannot save them.
Today, many come to ask Jesus in their hearts when they have not been called. They are doing great works, but they are works of thteir flesh in HIs name; they are not his works.
His Gospel is a Gospel of repentance, a Gospel t hat says come into MY life and lose yours that you may find it hid in me. But we see people being called to all sorts of things that are not repentance and not to HIs life. They are seeking the things that men have made gods to them and they think that it is God they seek.
This scripture's context clearly shows that they are seeking to enter the Kingdom... but your own works no matter how good wont get you there...
Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Think about Feed The Children. I hear a lot about what a wonderful group of Christians that organization is and how they are doing so uch wonderful t hings in HIS name.
I wrote to them. I asked them "Do you take the Gospel of Christ to those w hom you feed?" they replied: We are a Christian organization and we feed people regardless of their religious beliefs. I wrote back and said but Do you take the gospel to those children you feed? the rather exhasperated public relations person wrote me back: "No, we do not take the gospel to those we feed because we feed all religions or without regard to religion and soe might be offended byt he gospel. We are a christian organization who does not discriminate in who we feed.
Now, I know that this will not be a popular thing to say with some, but to me that is about as blatant as you can get in works of inquity. Because it is a work of the flesh. It is a work of man doing what he thinks God wants him to be doing in service. But I say that if you have the Gospel and you yourself are saved, and you go to somme poor hell bound child and fill the belly of his flesh and dont fill his ears with the gospel that will save his soul, you are a worker of iniquity... you have damned that child I dont care how good your intentions...there are no good intentions apart
from Christ and if Christ is not in you,, your works are works of the flesh. And if Christ is in you and you are working your works and not HIs you are working works of your flesh. And they will burn though you be saved.
But this is a picture of the works that these who are not saved are doing... they believe that they are doing good in HIs name, but they are workers of iniquity.
Yes, they are heathen; but they are deceived. Demons will come out at the authority of hIS name no matter who calls on it. They are doing the things that t hey see they should be doing, but they are works of their own flesh...trying to be good and not HIS works.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
That was good, Aaron. I liked that. It reminded me of the unbelievers standing in the Judgment Day before the throne and of the scripture which says:
Matthew 12:37
For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.
When the unbeliever stands before the Judgment Seat, I can see the Lord saying to him or her: "Go ahead, start talking...." and then in desperation the person, seeing the situation s/he is in, starts to "spout Christian", but, having no historical experience of talking to Jesus like a believer has, the unbeliever, given enough time, will just not be able to keep up the "Lord, Lord" and what little they know, if anything, of faith through Jesus Christ, and soon their own filthy words will condemn them.
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
IP: Logged |
|
|
Aaron
unregistered
|
posted
The *lying one* will perform lying wonders. His power is based on delusion and deception. Besides, the operative authority principle is "A house divided against itself will not stand". Satan will not cast out Satan.
Even so, I can only recall one such *Satanic* man performing wonders in the sight of men. It hasn't happened yet. This is the one who wars against the saints. But I don't recall him groveling at the Lord's feet.
Aaron
IP: Logged |
|
|
wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891
|
posted
satan can do signs and wonders.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Aaron
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
Jesus NEVER disputed that they did what they claimed.
He didn't say "No you didn't" so it's assumed that they DID those things.
A person lacks the power and authority to do those things outside of the Kingdom of God.
And, lying is a *work* of the enemy.
Aaron
IP: Logged |
|
|
wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891
|
posted
He didn't say
"Depart from me you LIARS"
He said "Depart from me you WORKERS of evil"
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891
|
posted
Jesus NEVER disputed that they did what they claimed.
He didn't say "No you didn't" so it's assumed that they DID those things.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aaron:
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
They practice churchianity rather than have a relationship with The Author of The Bible.
But these people have no power from the Lord and are unable to properly deal with demons and prophesy what the Lord is saying. If they claim they have such power without a relationship with the Lord they lie.
Aaron
People can use the Lord's name and His power without knowing Him.
That's why Peter says to examine ourselves to make sure if we are in the faith. We are to work out our Salvation with fear and trembling.
Many people will pray to God and end the prayer "in Jesus name" Amen, yet their prayer is a carnal prayer and they do not seek God's will, they think their will is the same as God's will.
They think that they already know what God's will IS, and they think they can tell God how to accomplish their will.
Carnality is emnity with God. God resists the proud.
There is a carnal faith and their is a saving faith, and often people can't discern the difference.
People who never express any belief in God wouldn't use Jesus' name, So Jesus isn't referring to them at this point. He is referring to those like the Pharisees who are religeous, but have no real communion with the Lord.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Aaron
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
They practice churchianity rather than have a relationship with The Author of The Bible.
But these people have no power from the Lord and are unable to properly deal with demons and prophesy what the Lord is saying. If they claim they have such power without a relationship with the Lord they lie.
Aaron
IP: Logged |
|
|
Aaron
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
[QUOTE] The heathen wouldn't be going around trying to use Jesus name, only those who feel they are associated with Christ.
No, I believe they did no such thing. They are liars and are lieing.
Aaron
IP: Logged |
|
|
wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891
|
posted
GREAT analigy WhiteEagle
That's how I interpet that verse.
There are many many people sitting in pews and serving in ministry that don't have a relationship with Jesus
They practice churchianity rather than have a relationship with The Author of The Bible.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aaron:
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Aaron,
I think that is why we are instructed to submit to God and to draw close to God and to strive to seek God's face, so that He will know us.
As we get closer to Him, we will be changed and want to be obediant to Him out of OUR LOVE toward HIm because He first LOVED us.
The name of Jesus is above any other name, but we are not to LOVE Jesus' name and the power it has, we are to LOVE JESUS and the Father and and then God will know us because we will follow Jesus, not just hide under HIS NAME.
Anyone can use Jesus' name even if they don't knbow HIM.
I understand these concepts.
My assertion was simply this: the verses do not speak about back-slidden Christians. It speaks of heathens.
Aaron
I thinks it speaks of people who think they are saved, but are not saved. The heathen wouldn't be going around trying to use Jesus name, only those who feel they are associated with Christ.
It's like me saying " I know the president, because I've watched him on TV."
Yet the president would certainly say He never knew me.
the president would only know me, if I had personal contact with him and communications on a regular basis.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Bandit
Advanced Member
Member # 3643
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aaron:
Matthew 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'"
I'm just thinking here....
I have always been taught that the professors of "Lord, Lord" are religious folk who have the trappings of Christ-likeness but lack the reality of the rebirth.
Why is this assumed?
When I read it there is no indication that these people are telling the truth at the start:
1) They proclaim fealty to the one (Christ) who is obviously in charge at the moment. To me this seems like a desperate attempt to save their own skin.
2) They certainly know what power a spirit-filled Christian should possess... they name speaking the words of God, casting out demons, and other wonders. But since they are liars from the beginning (Lord Lord!) I assume they are continuing to lie to the Lord. Another desperate attempt at self preservation.
Also, I have never known a demon to obey any other authority save for the Lord's. They could not have dealt with demons apart from the Lord's authority and the Lord's authority is given only to those who possess born-again life.
3) "I never knew you." A back-slider is known at one time else there is nothing from which to slide. These people were never part of the Kingdom.
So, my thought is this: these guys are liars, the Lord knows this and He calls them on it. These are not Christians in need of correction. These are heathens who try to bribe their way onto the life-raft in a sinking-ship of a world.
"I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"
The Lord cannot be bribed.
Aaron
Hello Aaron,
I just want to briefly address your post, particularly your 3rd point. Many, like yourself, upon seeing the word “never” in Matthew 7:23, understandably assume that this must of necessity be taken literally - that Jesus never had a relationship with those in question. But I suggest there is another possibility. The possibility I suggest is that Jesus is issuing a judgement in judgement language rather than stating a literal truth.
First realize, as indicated in verse 7:22, that this is a judgement scene. There are one or two other depictions of God’s final judgement which tend to point along the line I suggest. Take Ezekiel chapter 18 for instance. In verse 24 God says,
“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he had committed, because of them he shall die.”
Notice that God says that when a righteous man turns from the path of righteousness and lives wickedly, that all his former righteous deeds are forgotten. This is very much the same as when a sinful man turns from his evil ways, all his sinful deeds are forgotten (see Ezekiel 18:22 for example). So, in the judgement, the righteous man does not have his sinful deeds held against him, for as scripture says, they are removed as far as the east is from the west (Psalm 103:12). But for the unrighteous, the situation is reversed: none of his righteous deeds are remembered. Therefore, it is quite possible that when Jesus says “never” in Matthew 7:23, that he is speaking judgement upon one who was formerly righteous, rather than stating a fact.
If you disagree with this assessment, realize that you have no problem with a saved person being forgiven all their sins. It seems that God also says that none of the righteous deeds of the wicked will be remembered as well. I suggest these are two sides of the same judgement coin. If you accept one side of the coin, then logically you should accept the other.
Also, please don’t fall for the claim by some that Ezekiel 18 is simply addressing physical life and physical death. This is how many in the once saved always saved camp try to dodge the implications of this passage. Sorry, but this passage in Ezekiel is dealing with eternal life and eternal death.
Sincerely,
Bandit
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Aaron
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Aaron,
I think that is why we are instructed to submit to God and to draw close to God and to strive to seek God's face, so that He will know us.
As we get closer to Him, we will be changed and want to be obediant to Him out of OUR LOVE toward HIm because He first LOVED us.
The name of Jesus is above any other name, but we are not to LOVE Jesus' name and the power it has, we are to LOVE JESUS and the Father and and then God will know us because we will follow Jesus, not just hide under HIS NAME.
Anyone can use Jesus' name even if they don't knbow HIM.
I understand these concepts.
My assertion was simply this: the verses do not speak about back-slidden Christians. It speaks of heathens.
Aaron
IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
Aaron,
I think that is why we are instructed to submit to God and to draw close to God and to strive to seek God's face, so that He will know us.
As we get closer to Him, we will be changed and want to be obediant to Him out of OUR LOVE toward HIm because He first LOVED us.
The name of Jesus is above any other name, but we are not to LOVE Jesus' name and the power it has, we are to LOVE JESUS and the Father and and then God will know us because we will follow Jesus, not just hide under HIS NAME.
Anyone can use Jesus' name even if they don't knbow HIM.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Aaron
unregistered
|
posted
Matthew 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'"
I'm just thinking here....
I have always been taught that the professors of "Lord, Lord" are religious folk who have the trappings of Christ-likeness but lack the reality of the rebirth.
Why is this assumed?
When I read it there is no indication that these people are telling the truth at the start:
1) They proclaim fealty to the one (Christ) who is obviously in charge at the moment. To me this seems like a desperate attempt to save their own skin.
2) They certainly know what power a spirit-filled Christian should possess... they name speaking the words of God, casting out demons, and other wonders. But since they are liars from the beginning (Lord Lord!) I assume they are continuing to lie to the Lord. Another desperate attempt at self preservation.
Also, I have never known a demon to obey any other authority save for the Lord's. They could not have dealt with demons apart from the Lord's authority and the Lord's authority is given only to those who possess born-again life.
3) "I never knew you." A back-slider is known at one time else there is nothing from which to slide. These people were never part of the Kingdom.
So, my thought is this: these guys are liars, the Lord knows this and He calls them on it. These are not Christians in need of correction. These are heathens who try to bribe their way onto the life-raft in a sinking-ship of a world.
"I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"
The Lord cannot be bribed.
Aaron
IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
