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Author
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Topic: Is it Ok to Offend?
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Titus
Advanced Member
Member # 4394
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posted
Did Jesus ever offend anyone? Did Jesus ever call anyone a not so nice name? Surely not, after all He was a really nice guy and wouldn't offend anyone, right? In at least three different passages Jesus called the Pharisees "a generation of vipers." Matt 3:7 (Luke 3:7) Matt 12:34 and Matt 23:33.
Jesus wasn't too hot on being politically correct, and neither am I.
Titus
Posts: 27 | From: Indiana | Registered: Feb 2005
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Just because BA is your brother, does not mean you can start sounding like him! ![[cool_shades]](graemlins/cool_shades.gif)
AHHHH!!!! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) ROFL!!!!!! ![[pound]](graemlins/pound.gif)
(You know I Love you BA ![[Wink]](wink.gif) )
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Passes out cookies and juice so the children will not become restless. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Quick Sis, come back here with me  before those milk and cookies go flyin'
J/K! - You definitely know how much I Love You in the Lord Sister Linda!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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bygrace
Advanced Member
Member # 4847
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posted
Yes I agree, good points made here.
Linda, your post reminded me of an article written by Ray Comfort.
I posted it as a new topic- The Offence of the Cross.
while we must strive not to personally attack, truth is offensive... therefore this can lead to an attack from the person you are trying to show the truth to.
bygrace
Posts: 162 | Registered: Jul 2005
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
Passes out cookies and juice so the children will not become restless.
betty
okay just because my husband says I am stubborn, there is no need to talk about the donkey.
Truly sister there is a time to be stubborn for God's sake, because if a Christian is not stubborn in their faith they can be easily swayed by the world.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
Are you insinuating that my posts are long
Just because BA is your brother, does not mean you can start sounding like him!
One person picking on me my longwindedness is enough thank you ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[type]](graemlins/type.gif)
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
AMEN!!!! ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
That was Worth the time it took to read!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
I do think you said it well Redkermit.
I also think that if we think that God is more concerned with our feelings than our souls or the souls of those with whom we have influence or the souls of the lost that are in the church today then we might want to think again.
\I have found that I will get over my hurt feelings when I realize that this life is not about me but about HIM and what HE is doing.... and he is about setting captives free and pulling ears and arms and legs out of the mouths of wolves and destroying the works of the devil and bringing the sin of the wicked to its fullness that he can bring judgement and saving souls!
There will plenty of time for us in the life to come. Our reward is there. Reward for what? Faithfulness to HIS work here. This life in this earth is not ours and it is not about us it is about him and if we have to get some feelings hurt in the process oh well.
Why do our feelings get hurt? because we are focused on our selves and not on him and what he is doing.
The truth is offensive to the enemya and the enemy is in our flesh. The truth is not offensive to the spirit.
If I find myself being offended by the truth then I have to ask my self why I am listening with the ears of my carnal flesh's mind and not my spirit.
I am not talking about personal attacks... I am talking about truth. Though hurt feeling there come from our respect of our own person and can be avoided the same way, this is not what I am speaking
If I say your dress is ugly and your feet stink you can be offended and you can think I am rude.
If someone tells me that we who are christians ought not esteem men above that which is written and I are offended, then I better examine why because that is GOD's opinion and if God's opinion is offensive to me, I have a problem and a serious one that can cost me a whole lot more than my hurt feelings and will also cost those with whom I have been planted together in the same garden.
It is not about us; It is about HIM; this life does not belong to me; it belongs to him.
Do you think that the Pharisee found Jesus offensive... you bet they did. So did those who followed the Pharisee and thought them to be men of God.
So is it ok to offend? I think it is ok to offend the flesh with the truth. Yes sir absolutely.
A problem occurs when we want to make the one that brings the truth the subject or the issue and not the TRUTH the issue.
Now that is not to say that every one is able to bring the truth with grace or style; but you know what?
God used Balaam's Donkey to bring truth and he was not much in the area of finnesse.
We all have to learn how to deliver a message with grace.... even Paul was criticized for his style. Lord knows my style does at times lack. but I am a work in progress, God will finish me and polish me as he wills, but that doesnt mean I have to be finsihed and polished to hear him tell me to speak about something he lays on my heart.
By the time I am all finshed and polished it wont matter anyway cause when perfect comes ALL will see the TRUTH.
But some will be sorry to see HIM and there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and all the good feelings in the world that were had in this life will not matter then. Are this not worth the trouble of my hurt feelings? or Maybe even my hurting someone else's feelings?
What are feelings? Part of our fleshy self... part of what we are laying down so that he can be lifted up.
Whn God lays something on your heart to say, who wants to make the issue the messenger or the style of the messenger rather than the message that God layed on your heart or my heart?
Not God;He layed it there to be shared; God used a donkey to deliver a message. God used a low of speech shepherd to speak the Pharaoh, God used a Carpenter from Galilee of all places to speak to the Righteous Pharisee and the mighty Sanheidren Court.
The devil is the one that wants to take our ears off the message and put our eyes on the messenger - the devil wants to distract us so much that we forget what the message is about.
That should tell us something about the message and about those who speak against the messenger and ignore the message.
Yes, my friends we do not war with flesh and blood. We battle with powers and pricipalities and spiritual wickedness in high places that use men to do the devil's bidding and there is not one of us that is immune to his cunning and cannot be led to walk in the flesh and do his dirty work.
But we all who are born again do have the ability to not mind the mind of the flesh, but to walk in the Spirit praise God for the Blood of Jesus!
Still WE have to do the walking.
Why do we think Jesus said to Peter "Get behind me Satan, thou savourest not the things that be of God but the things that be of men." He said that because when Peter did savor these things it was Satan that spoke from his flesh.
Peter could have been offended.
We can all be offended; but when we are, we have stepped out of the spirit and into the flesh.
Many people do not get this scripture because they take it out of context but if we look at this in context we can see something:
Matthew 18:7 ¶ Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Jesus says woe to whom? To the WORLDbecause of offenses (stumbling blocks); offences or stumbling blocks that cause us to stumble in sin are of the world... and worldly things.
Peter savoured the things that be of men. And it seemed sweet; Peter did not want the Lord to go or to be killed. That was sweet. That was a good thought But was it?
No, it was not sweet because it was not of God. It was not about what God was doing. We need to be about what God is doing.
Stumbling blocks have to come; sin must manifest itself fully to be finished and when it is finished it brings death.
This is part of God's justness and mercy that there is an end to sin and it comes with death.
Sin is not stagnant. Sin lies at the door and waits for opportunity and when opportunity comes sin spreads.
If you remember the story of Cain, what was the opportunity for his temper and anger with God?
Was it God that caused that offence by not accepting the sacrifice?
No, it was Cain's sin that caused that... it was cain's desire to please God Cain's way and not God's way that led to his anger that led to his murder of his own brother.
But woe to whom? the one that calls sin sin? The work of the Holy spirit is to convict us of sin. So if one comes with a message of saying this is sin, this is the work of God.
The devil does not try to convict people of sin, the devil trys to make us feel guilty for sin that he encourages us to do.
God wants conviction so that we will recognizing sin and lovong him more repent.
No, Jesus does not say the offence was caused by the exposing of sin.
Jesus says woe to the one through whom the sin that leads to offence does come.
How do I know this is an accurate exegesis of this scripture?
Because JESUS was to the Pharisee a stumbling block on which the Pharisee did stumble and this is not saying woe to Jesus, it is saying woe to the pharisee.
Because they stumbled because of their sins....they stumbled because they trusted in themselves to please God their way and not God's way which was through the son.
Their sin of not believing made Jesus to be sin that caused them to stumble. Jesus was to them sin - offence, a stumbling block and their sin of disbelief made him to be sin who had not sin and in whom was not sin.
Jesus came bringing the truth of God's word and it was a word that called some to repentence and others to judgment.
But the sin of the Pharisees made Jesus to be sin and when that sin was made fully manifest in their beating and scouraging of him, then it lead to their murder of the brother.
Now we know in reality that Jesus was not murdered and no one took his life, but he laid it down. But that is God's eye view. The early view is they murdered the messenger and in doing so fulfilled the prophesies against themselves.
The of God has not changed; God is calling men to repentance and those who will not repent to judgment.
Today, he does that work, a lot like he did in Noah's day. Noah was one who found grace in the eyes of God in a time when man was apart from the law.
We the body of Christ are like Noah, Righteous in our genration by the Blood of the Lamb and we have found grace in the eyes of God in a time when we are apart from or not under law.
The building of the ark had the same effect on those who were called with Noah into the ark as our living in covenant has on those that will be called into our the ark of our covenant with us as members of the body of Christ. But the work of building the ark also was a work to the world that would not repent:
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
I do not know if you can see this. But today in continuing to add to the church doing what we do, preaching the Gospel of righteousness through Christ, making disciples, we are like Noah who was a preacher of rigteousnss.
And we are building a living ark of covenant that is a body and a kingdom of people who are all parts in a bigger body that is Christ and thus we are Christ working in the world drawing people to repentance and reconcillition with God made possible by the blood.
But we are also as we work and live and build this living ark of covenant bringing sin to its full manifestation in the world.
That when it is fully manifest in the world and we are all that are coming into the ark that are going to come, our hoilness and righteousness- which is HIS holiness and righteousness- will bring the manifestation of the condemnation of the world that was done on the cross.
This is the work of the Holy spirit of God being done in the world through the Body of Christ that indwells the persons of the born again:
John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Now, I know that I may have lost you and forgive me for my human lack in the ability to communicate spiritual things.... but what does this have to so with offending people?
In the days of Noah there were scoffers; you know that there were pople that thought that Noah was as nutty as your momma's nuttiest fruitcake. What was Noah preaching? Noah was preaching righteousness in a world of unrighteousness. You could have painted a sign and stuck it in the front of that door of that ark that said: GOD INSIDE - SALVATION; the wicked would have scoffed and went about savouring the things of men.
Jesus was preaching righteousness in a Kingdom of Righteous looking, self righteous, unrighteousness. Jesus preached to the Kingdom of God in the land of Israel. In Jesus day thier were scoffers and the scoffers were brothers of Christ and were living as the Kingdom of God's people in the land of ISreal though they were under Rome, and the scoffers were among them and Jesus could not have done any more of he held a sign that said GOD INSIDE _ SALVATION THIS WAY. The Pharisee would have still savoured the things that were of men. The Phrisee had their own signs that said GOD INSIDE - SALVATION THIS WAY.... but they did not point to Jesus.
We are today preaching righteousness in the Kindom of God that is in the Land of the world and the world is among us and some are holding signs that say GOD INSIDE - SALVATION THIS WAY and the signs point to Jesus and the Word. And amog us are scoffers and false teachers who savour the things that be of men and they have signs too that say GOD INSIDE - SALVATION THIS WAY.... but they point not to Jesus but to the worldly things that men savour, just like the signs that the Pharisee held.
It was the savouring of the things that be of men that kept the wicked scoffing at Noah and not helping him build the ark that they coukd enter of Judgement day.
It was the savouring of the things of men that kept the Pharisee scoffing at Jesus. And it was the esteeming of the Pharisee over the word of God that stood before them that caused the people to rise up and crucify the messenger of God that held the sign that pointed the way to God and Salvation.
Today, it is the savoring of the things of men that led men called, annointed and appointed by God to hold signs that say God INSIDE -SALVATION THIS WAY that point to the things that they savour and not Jesus. And it those that esteem these men above the word of God that will rise up and murder the messengers of God that point the way to the GOD and HIS salvation through the WORD of GOD and the Blood of HIS SON. THey make the messenger to be sin to them and their own sin makes the messenger a stumbling block that causes their bodies to sin.
If we go back to Matthew, we see this in the conclusion of this lesson from Jesus.
Jesus has said woe to them through whom stumbling of the body does come:
8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee:
it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
If you sin with your hands the sin and the stumbling of your body comes through your hand.
Your body did not stumble because Jesus said thou shalt not steal, the stumbling of your body came because of the sin in your hand that was an offense to your body.
We are a body, if my brother Pastor Billy Bob Joe causes me to sin the sin of Idolatry by teaching me to make the persuit of purpose my god instead of teaching me to persue HIS righteousness, the the person who exposes Pastor Billy Bob Joe's error is not the cause of offense; my sin of idolatry is and my sin does offend the whole body not just your part but my part as a little leaven leavens the whole lump.
9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
If my eye savors the things that be of men, My eye cause me to sin against my brother who speaks the TRUTH when he says we ought not esteem men above that which is written because my eye looks at a preacher and my ear likes what it hears from the mouth of that preacher more than it likes the WORD.... it is the sin in my own eye that caused me to stumble it is not the brother that said it was sin my your eye to esteem men. Further, If I do not repent when confronted with my sin, then my sin will infect more of my body and my mouth will soon sin against my brother calling good evil and evil good. Or I might even try to discredit my brother and make him look foolish for trying to speak what he knew God had layed on his heart.
When we a saint of the Most High God are confronted with Truth and it is to our flesh offense we have two choices.
1. we can be offended and let that offence grow to the point that we kill our brother and greive the Spirit that sent him with the message about sin in the body.
or
2. We can humble ourselves and repent of our sin and walk in the spirit being thankful to our brother for loving us and the whole body enough to call our sin sin and thankful to God for giving us a brother in the first place.
One of these choices is flesh and being flesh is the work of Satan and the other of these choices is spirit.
We have to choose every day and with every decision to walk in the flesh or walk in the spirit.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eduardo Grequi
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Member # 3984
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posted
Is it okay to purposefully offend?
NO NO NO
WHY?
The Blood of Jesus Christ, His Son cleanses us from all unrighteousness! There is NOT A CHRISTIAN in this world who is free from sin and that includes me! HOWEVER we are challenged to be like the Bereans and study the word of God to see if those things are so!! ACTS 17:11
In the Pauline epistles it states that we who are mature, should hold the weak (debil). If drinking a can of beer offends your brother DO NOT DO IT!!!
I learned this lesson a hard way! A while back when stationed in Germany, I met a youngman- He was a Mormon. His light and handcuff was the mormon church. I being too eager and immature and zealous for God made a person not want to search for GOD. He said my friends and I were demons. He the youngman eventually became a drug addict and drunk and guess what so did I for a season!
It wasn't until I heard a message at the Hospitality House did I understand the graveness of this situation. I looked for him but could not find him. I prayed to God for another chance and He gave me it. It was a Mormon but a different person, and we talked and talked and eventually he asked do you really believe in all this? Of course I said and I have learned to walk charitably. You can witness better and bring people to God with honey than with scorn.
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
I understand what Redkermit has said and I very much agree with his summary of what's been happening ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I especially appreciate this part:
quote:
Originally posted by redkermit:
Instead of being offended first, take the teaching to the Word of God and see if the teaching stands or the exposing is correct. At the same time, some of the attitudes directed at those who have defended the teachers are just as wrong.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Gramajo320
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Member # 4667
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posted
RedKermit,
Thank you very much for your posting which states the words of truth. God bless you.
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Gramajo320
Posts: 2385 | From: WA | Registered: May 2005
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TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
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posted
I have never sought to offend anyone. I have stated over and over, let us judge a Preacher or teacher by the Word of God. The Bible is the ruler that measures the teaching, not me. Yes, I have defended my fellow Christians who have been hurt because people will not see the truth, but none of seek to hurt them. We have just sought to open their eyes to the truth. I feel it is better to see the truth now then be explaining ourselves to God in Heaven.
If you see that I have been cruel, I apologize for that. It was never my intention.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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redkermit
Advanced Member
Member # 4059
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posted
I really do not want to get involved in this, but something has been on my mind as I read through the many, many posts over the last couple of days.
If I really wanted to put in the time, I could make quite a post that shows behavior that isn't exactly Christ-like from both "sides".
I wholeheartedly agree that it is biblical to point out false teachings. And, I think it has been shown that false teachers have been exposed by name, and not just by Jesus.
Some have defended the named teachers, and then in turn have been ridiculed for defending them. Also, in a recent thread I just read, several posts had a very sarcastic theme directed at some of the posts here where the teachers have been defended.
I really like what Soft Touch said in another thread:
quote:
At any rate... let what the BIBLE Says be the Rule and let us each Examine ourselves to see if we're lining up with HIS Word and then do what is necessary to correct our actions if we're not. Perhaps then we can Truly bring GLORY TO GOD!!!
False teachings need to be exposed, and we should always be comparing what we're being taught to the Word of God. I agree with what many have said regarding being offended. Instead of being offended first, take the teaching to the Word of God and see if the teaching stands or the exposing is correct. At the same time, some of the attitudes directed at those who have defended the teachers are just as wrong.
And, that's all I have to say about this, also.
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I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)
1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org
Posts: 604 | From: Michigan | Registered: Nov 2004
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
My sister, the true offense comes from those who twist, water down, and right out re-write the Bible in order to have more numbers at a Church meeting. While it breaks my heart to offend another Christian, it would be more painful to explain to God in person why I was more concerned with making friends then standing up for the truth of His Holy Word. How would I face the apostles and everyone else who was tortured and died defending the very words of the Bible? If the apostles had been willing to water-down the Bible to please the Jews, they would have all lived long lives. But they saw the Bible was worth fighting for. How can we face them, if we now say we should keep our mouth shut?
GramaJo talks about email of people complaining because we speak the truth. Well, I have email from folks who write with tears running down their faces of how painful it has been, being tormented right off a Christian BBS for speaking the truth. The truth is the God's Holy Word is worth fighting for.
My dear children open your eyes to the truth. More and more preachers and teachers will speak with elegant voices, while speaking lies and half-truths. Most of us cannot compete with this, but we have the truth on our side. God's Holy Word is worth fighting for. We will have to choose to stand up for God or for popularity. I pray that Jesus returns before we have to choose Him or die, but how can we do that, if we run because someone is offended because we dare criticize a preacher or teacher for polluting the Word of God for a price.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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HisGrace
unregistered
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posted
Many think that it is ok to post these endless statements against all of these televanglists without considering and being sensitive to the fact that they may be offending fellow brothers and sisters.
When I first joined BBS over a year ago I posted a very inspirational piece about a teaching that I received from a very high-profile preacher on TV and innocently mentioned his name. Boy, did I open up a can of worms. Immediately I was admonished for being "misguided' and threads started opening up all over the place about this person. I don't think I received one welcome from anyone.
Not too long ago I wrote a little blurb about a very controversial church and found out that one of our sisters belongs to that church. I would think it would be height of rudeness to continue printing material against that church, even though I am dead set against its philosophy. Wouldn't even dream of setting myself up for dissention and bitternes.
Where is the respect on this Board? The contention seems to be that it is ok to continuously print this sort of thing, even though many seeds have planted, but I would hope you would at least be considerate enough not to name names. Is it worth hurting the feelings of fellow members?
This is the first and last post I am going to print on this subject, so if I remain silent it is not because of guilt, it is because I am honouring God's wish not to be argumentive.
Christ First ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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