|
Author
|
Topic: Rapture
|
Favor Minded
unregistered
|
posted
AMEN Laurie!!
And what I find even more interesting is the vast amount of prophecy thatis currently being fulfilled.
I do not see how anyone who has studied prophecy can deny the events.
I wrote on the topic of the mark of the beast, and almost all of it has come true!
We see Revelation and Daniel being fulfilled daily -
Our own US is making biometric data mandatory in 2005.
How can anyone believe in the AD 70 doctrine that thinks prophecy already happened when it we see the events leading up to the Rapture and the Tribulation unfolding before our eyes!!
IP: Logged | 
|
|
LaurieFL
Advanced Member
Member # 3794
|
posted
I have to add this to this thread. I have only recently started reading the Left Behind books, and I must say I find them so far (just starting book 3) to be true to what I know of Biblical propehcy. These books have moved me tremendously.
Today, I was reading the section where the Jewish rabbi Tsion was giving his report of his study of the prohecies regarding the Messiah, and how the only conclusion that could be drawn was that Jesus Christ of Nazareth was and is the Messiah. When I got to the last bit, and some of the last prohecies he spoke of, such as the 483 year gap between the re-commisioning of the bulding of the temple to the crucifixion - I was overcome. Our God planned the coming of His Son, His sacrifice, His resurrection - all for us. And He has planned His return!!!! I can't wait.
It was funny. I had a job interview in an hour and I was bawling (with humility and joy and gratitude) trying not to let my make-up be destroyed.
I highly recommend reading these books. Even if you do not believe in Pre-Trib rapture, you will find it interesting to read a "fictionalized" account of the details of prohecies being fulfilled and the depiction of how God will still be working on this Earth and many will be saved during that time - very moving, especially with the Jewish people being saved.
Posts: 700 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
KjTsion
New Member
Member # 4165
|
posted
My friends The rapture is a real event that will occur in due time. The Left Behind Series (which I consider a very well written series) is what I like to call Biblical fiction.....Fiction based on events that will occur as predicted in the book of Revelation.
My interpretation of Revelation 1:7 "Look he is coming with the clouds and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him, shall it be! Amen" 8 " I am the Alpha and the Omega" says the Lord God "who is, and who was and who is to come, the Almighty"
my dear friends this verse to me represents to me the rapture occuring, The Lord God as it says in the Bible knows who is his and who is not. The rapture will occur and I honestly believe it will happen in a way very similar to the disappearances as I dont see where God would make dead bodies to be left behind where we need to perform massive burials, that does not seem like something God would do, and I honestly also believe that God himself had the power to just make bodies disappear like that. It may be fiction but the entire series gives us a greater idea of exactly what the judgements will be like. But I digress to the point, YES the rapture will occur as a real event, not some event that was just made up through a series of books, it will occur as will all the judgements after it I bid you all a good day my brothers and sisters and God Bless you
KjTsion
--------------------
Let the Glory of the Lord be our Rear Guard.
Posts: 5 | From: USA | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984
|
posted
Although the Left Behind Series are fiction in the sense that it has not truly happened; the message that it sends is clear-JESUS IS A COMING. Lets'face it majority of the world look at the bible as a myth or myth entertangled with facts etc..
A song by Wm. Edie Marks andRev Johnson Oatman Jr.
The Last Mile Of The Way
1) If I walk in the pathway of duty, If I work till the close of the day; I shall see the great King in His beauty, When I've gone the last mile of the way.
2) If for Christ I proclaim the glad story, If I seek for HIs sheep gone astray, I am sure He will show me His glory, When I've gone the last mile of the way.
3) Here the dearest of ties we must sever, Tears of sorrow are seen every day; But no sickness, no sighing forever When I've gone the last mile of the way.
4) And if here I have earnestly striven, And have tried all HIs will to obey, T'will enhance all the rapture of heaven.
When I've gone the last mile of the way, I will rest at the close of the day, And I know there are joys that await me, When I've gone the last mile of the way.
1Corin. 15:50-58:
Now, this I say; brethern, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. BEHOLD, i tell you a mystery: WE shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed- in a momnt, in the twingling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead wiil be raised ncorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must PUT ON incorruption, and this mortal must PUT ON immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then sall be brought to pass the sayng that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." (Is 25:8)
"O Death where is your sting? (Hosea 13:14)
O Hades, where is your vicotry"(Hosea 13:14)
The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, whogives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, my beloved brethern, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
When will the rapture occur? The raptue will occur before God rains his wrath on this adulterous and wicked world.
1 Thess 4:13-18
But I would not have you be ignorant,brethern, concerning them which are asleep, that you sorrow nor, even as ohers which have no hope. For IF we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also whichsleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are ALIVE and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are ASLEEP. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the rump of God: and the DEAD in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are ALIVE and reain shall be CAUGHT UP togehter wit them IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. WHEREFORE COMFORT ONE ANTHER WITH HESE WORDS.
AMEN
I am currently the Left Behind Series, I am on the Book named "The Mark". I believe that the Lord Has something to do with this series. In all of our years we never have had a series of readible book that depicted the biblical prophecies in such a way that it will cross over to people who has not called upon the Lord. I have and always will believe that Jesus will come before the tribulation. There is a verse in the New Testament that says something like this, "I will not suffer my church to see the wrath of God"- I read it before like always but just cann't remember the address for that verse. Does Anyone know? In the book of Mathew chapter 24, the verses1-2 " Then Jesus went out and departe from the temple, and his disciples came up to show Him the buildongs of the temple. And Jess said to them, DO you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say unto you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." When you read on the discples asked Jesus some questions. This is a Rabbi to follower relationships. So the students asked the Rabbi the following; verse 3 Now as He at on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him in private saying, " Tell us ,wen will these things be?
And what will be the SIGN of your
coming?
And of the END of age?"
The coming (rapture) is different from the end of the age! What is this age called? I believe the AGE is refering to the AGE of SIN/DEATH/SEPERATION
. My Dear Brother and Sisters what do you think? As I read the Left Behind Series it makes me more hungry for the word of God. I am also finding more and more catholics who really takes God's Word literal and the say to their brethern YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN. Believe it more and more catholics are leaving the Church for greener pastures. ANd if you ask any catholic about Mary. They do not worship MARIA- they venerate her. Read Proverbs:10-31. A very little of catholics would equate her as a Queen of Heaven, but that follows the line of SANTERISM. It is mixture of Catholism and Vous Dieux (VOO DOO).
ANY WAY the LORD HE"S A COMING AND COMING FAST prepare thyself, and witness with urgency. Do not be recoiled if anyone says no, the prayer of the Saints will help kick out the devil.But the choice is a personal choice. Witness tactifully, witness with love as tender of a lamb but the smarts of a vixen. KNOW your neighbor, witness for the trumpet is near sounding.
ALLELUYA-ALLELUYA-IMMANUEL-EL SHADDAI-SIMO VET HE TOV
SELAH
ALLELUYA-ALLELUYA-BAR-eABBAS- SIMO VET HE TOV
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Favor Minded
unregistered
|
posted
AMEN Helpforhomeschoolers!
And Tim -
As I said before, always glad to discuss.
I understood you - I just know that I do not want to see you "left behind" either ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
It is not about "futurist" - It is about rightly dividng the Word, and truly understanding the divine revelation God has given in Prophecy.
The problem lies in certain things like your believing that the world is going to be in smoking ruin with the Devil running around on it for 1000 years, while we are in Heaven.
This is simply not true.
That is "your" interpretation of prophecy and has no biblical foundation.
Ideas like that prevent us from discussing it.
You NEVER did tell me where you got that idea nor did you offer any scriptural support for it.
IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
quote:
I said that it rests upon his interpretation of Prophecy.
Not so!! It rests on understanding the difference between the Bride of Christ and the friends of the groom. It rest on understanding the next appointed time of God to be fulfilled is the feast of trumpets and the days of Awe and eventually the day of atonement, and realizing that those things are for Israel as is Daniel's 70th week. But then I guess one would have to understand that they are not the whole house of Israel to understand that. Then one would have to know that the reason Ephraim is not sealed in the tribulation is because they just might not be there;God set them before their brother manasseh.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Favor Minded
unregistered
|
posted
Actually, history is like this -
In 150, the Rapture idea was preached by the Shepherd of Hermas.
In 270 Victorinus, the Bishop of Pettau, a Catholic leader preached it.
In 350 Ephraim the Syrian
In 400, Jerome in the Latin vulgate
(Jeromes LAtin Vulgate bible translation used the word Rapiamore which means Rapture, or Caught Up to describe the Rapture - 1600 Years ago!)
Then there were the thousand years called the “dark ages”, and then it came back.
In 1304, Reverend Dolcino proclaimed the Pre-trib Rapture.
In 1400 Bible translations in the native tongues led to a new propagation of the Pre-trib Rapture.
In 1627, Joseph Mede
1627 Increase Mather
1687, Peter Jurieu
1700 John Asgill
1738, Philip Doddridge
1748 John Gill
1763, James McKnight
1744, Morgan Edwards
1792, Thomas Scott
And then in 1830, John Darby.
Now, the TRUTH about the Rapture -
Matthew 24
The Day and Hour Unknown
36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
"And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain, ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable."
- I Corinthians 15:14-19
The Apostle Paul said it as well as it can be said. One cannot overstate the profound importance of the reality of the Resurrection of our Lord Jesus to our faith as Christians. If Jesus had not risen from the dead as the Bible states, then all who had and have fallen asleep (died in Christ) are perished and our hope for eternal life is gone. If Jesus had remained in the grave so would we - but praise God He is risen.
Think about what happened when Christ rose from the grave? What was left behind? All they found in that sepulcher was our Lord's grave clothes. What's the significance of that?
In I Corinthians 15:23, it says, Christ is the "firstfruits" of the Resurrection. The first fruits. Isn't that plain? Then in the text it explains that afterwards, or later, "they that are Christ's at his coming" will follow. It's there in God's Word. What it means is that since His clothes were left behind, ours will be also. Those that belong to Christ at the time of His coming will be bodily translated into heaven just as Jesus was - leaving behind the rags of sin for new robes of righteousness.
When Jesus Christ comes to call us home at the Rapture, He will come exactly as He left. How did He leave? He left bodily into the clouds. Acts 1:9 says, "And when he (Jesus) had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go.'"
In other words, if I can prove that He went bodily, then I don't have to go any further to prove that He's coming back bodily. Why? Because the Bible says He's coming back exactly as He left. How did He leave? After spending three days in the grave, He rose and stood on the earth in His new body. In Luke 24:39, He says to some of His followers, "Behold, my hands and my feet. It is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." In verse 41, He says, "Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them."
This is Christ in His new resurrected body - a body that could be seen, a body that could be touched, a body that could partake of food. It's a picture of what we will have at the time of the Rapture. How quickly will it happen? "Behold, I show you a mystery," the Bible tells us in I Corinthians 15:51-54. "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible (the dead) must put on incorruption, and this mortal (the living) must put on immortality."
This is going to be a glorious event. We shall be changed to be like Jesus. The Psalmist said in chapter 17, verse 15: "I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness." In Philippians 3:21, Paul says that God will change our vile bodies - not leave them behind, change them - that they may be fashioned "like unto his glorious body." In I John 3:2, it says that when we see Jesus, we shall be like Him, "for we shall see him as he is."
Did you know that Jesus wasn't the first person to be "raptured" out of this earth? In fact, when the Rapture occurs, it will be the fourth one documented in the Bible. The first was Enoch in Genesis 5:24: And Enoch walked with God; and he was not; for God took him. In Hebrews 11:5, Paul adds, that Enoch was translated by faith so that he should not see death. He was "raptured" - caught up in the twinkling of an eye, without dying. The second documented "rapture" is Elijah in II Kings 2:11. Elijah was caught up by a whirlwind into heaven. He, too, never saw death, foreshadowing what we believers will experience on the day the Lord catches us up in the clouds. Then, of course, Jesus was "raptured" away in Acts 1:9: "And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight."
When Elijah was caught up, angels and chariots of fire came to get him. I personally believe that, in a similar way, angelic hosts may come after those of us who ascend in the Rapture. Why? Because every believer - not just Elijah - has his own ministering angel. They could come to whisk us home in the twinkling of an eye. Luke 16:22 provides a precedent for us: "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom."
Is all this something that should frighten us? Excited, yes. Frightened, no. So many people today are facing the our new millennium with dread - with fear and foreboding. There is an anticipation - even in the secular media - that we may be nearing the end of the world. There is anxiety and hopelessness everywhere. The world seems to get just a bit uglier every day as crime increases and wars break out and immorality reigns.
This is not the way believers should feel - especially in this season when we are remembering what Jesus did for us on the cross of Calvary and how He victoriously defeated the last enemy, death, I Corinthians 15:26. What could be more exciting and encouraging than the idea that some of us will never die? In Titus 2:13, Paul calls the Rapture our "blessed hope." In I Thessalonians 4:18, he says, "Comfort one another with these words." "Comfort one another," he says, not frighten one another.
It is clear from scripture that the world will not even end after Christ's 1,000-year reign on earth. The world will never end. Isaiah 45:17 is unequivocal: It's a world without end. "Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen," Paul writes in Ephesians 3:21.
Skeptics will no doubt point to Matthew 24:3 which states: "As he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" Let's recall that the New Testament was written in Greek. The Greek translation of that last world is "age," not "world." Once again, the world is not coming to an end. But this epoch, this age, is closing. And, yes, the advent of the year 2000 does have some significance. Why? Because it could conceivably be the ending of the age of grace and beginning of the millennial age when the King of kings and Lord of lords returns (compare Matthew 24:3 and Matthew 25:34 for proof).
Long before Christ was born, the Jewish rabbis taught a six-day theory about the future of the world. They believed that the world would face several eras lasting a total of 6,000 years, from Adam's creation until the Messiah would come. This theory was based, in part, on Psalm 90:4: "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday." Since God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh day, they reasoned, the world would go on for 6,000 years followed by a 1,000-year millennial "rest" period presided over by the Lord himself.
Think about this. From the creation of Adam until the birth of Christ a period of 4,000 years - or four days passed. From Christ's time on earth until now represents approximately another 2,000 years - or two days. This total of six days is just one more reason to believe that Jesus could return very, very soon.
Six-day periods, followed by remarkable transitions, have been important throughout scripture. Look at Matthew 17:1, for example. "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And he was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light." Jesus was giving them a preview of what it would be like when He comes back as King of Kings and Lord of Lords as described in Revelation 19:16. When they came down from that mountain, He told them not to tell anyone of these things until after His Resurrection.
Not only did the ancient Jewish rabbis teach this six-day theory, but so did the church during the first 300 years of Christendom. The church leaders based their belief on II Peter 3:8: "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." St. Victorinus, the bishop of Petah, wrote a commentary on the book of Revelation in 270 AD. He said he saw another great and wonderful sign - "Seven angels having the last seven plagues, for in them is completed the indignation of God. And these shall be in the last time when the church shall have gone out of the midst." In other words, St. Victorinus was talking about the Rapture! This teaching is not a present day innovation but a doctrinal statement dating back 17 centuries to St. Victorinus and 20 centuries to Jesus and Paul.
In the 16th century there were those expressing assurance of the Rapture. Hugh Latimer, burned at the stake for his faith in 1555, said: "It may come in my days, old as I am, or in my children's days, the saints shall be taken up to meet Christ in the air and so shall come down with him again." Joseph Medde, the great 16th century literalist understood I Thessalonians 4:13-18 to teach the catching up of the saints and even used the word "rapture." So this is not some new idea.
However, understand this: The Rapture is not taught in Matthew, Mark and Luke. You can find it twice in the Gospel of John. Any other time you are reading about Christ's return in the gospels, it is not referring to the Rapture. Instead, these are references to the second phase of Christ's return - when He physically comes back to earth to rule over it after a seven-year Tribulation period and it's called, in theological circles, "the Revelation" or the revealing of Christ upon earth.
Where are the two Rapture texts in the Gospel of John? John 14:1-3: "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." This is not His coming to the earth. This is the point at which He receives us unto Himself at the great Rapture - the snatching away - to be with Him in heaven as the seven years of torment occur on earth. The second reference is in John 11:25,26. Christ said: "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
Jesus is contrasting those who experience death and live again ("for the dead in Christ rise first," I Thessalonians 4:16) with those who never experience death (because "we which are alive and remain" are caught up without dying, I Thessalonians 4:17).
It's a fact that God always spares His own from judgment. When the horrendous worldwide flood came in Noah's day, Noah told those who were prepared to COME INTO the ark, Genesis 7:7. When the judgment fell on Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19:14, the angels told Lot and his family to COME OUT of the city. Notice this trilogy: In Noah's day, it was COME IN. In Lot's day it was COME OUT. In our day, it will be COME UP, Revelation 4:1.
But, of course, as always, only a select group will be saved - rescued from the worst period in human history. During the Tribulation period that follows the Rapture, all hell is going to break loose on planet earth. It will be a furious time because the hindering power of the Holy Spirit will be temporarily removed. With all the Bible tells us about how we should live on earth, there are almost no instructions about how to prepare for this post-Rapture period.
How bad will things get? In Revelation 9:18, it indicates that a third of mankind will be killed by fire, smoke and brimstone. That, my friends, is nothing less than a first century way of explaining all-out thermonuclear warfare. Imagine. There are nearly 6 billion people on the earth today. If one-third are killed, that's a holocaust representing 2 billion lives. But that's just the beginning. In Revelation 6:8, the rider on the fourth horse brings with him a worldwide plague of disease that causes another fourth of humanity to perish. That's another billion. So half the human race will be annihilated in this relatively brief period. This pictures the judgment predicted by Jesus in Matthew 24:41 and 42.
As terrible as that fate sounds, there is still hope for those left behind. As long as one is alive there's hope. Joel chapter 2 and Acts chapter 2 describe the calamitous tribulation period. In the midst of all the carnage and destruction Joel 2:32 and Acts 2:21 states: "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
If interested, you can visit my website for much in the way of scriptural documentation and proof of the PreTrib Rapture...
http://favorminded.com
And know that Pre Tribulation Rapture is the ONLY truth that makes sense, and the only one that supports what Paul taught. There is a special crown for those who watch daily -
Any other idea does one very BOLD thing it should not, and that is, it teaches that we know one thing FOR SURE, Jesus IS NOT coming, YET...And this is against the Word.
IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
The Left Behind series is fictional, but apparently it is based on actual facts from the Bible, and therefore quite accurate.
I personally believe that the Rapture could be at any time, and will be before the tribulation.
IP: Logged |
|
|
LaurieFL
Advanced Member
Member # 3794
|
posted
The books, Left Behind are works of fiction. However, this theological doctrine hardly began with those books but extends back to the beginnings of the church. There is apparently quite a bit of controversy within church about the exact timing of this event. Some believe that before the Tribulation time begins that all saved people will be removed from teh Earth. Some believe that the rapture occurs halfway through, when the AntiChrist makes his true identity known. Some believe that there is no rapture per se, but that Christ returns triumphantly to start His new kingdom on Earth after the tribulation.
We have many here who are very studied in end times prophecy who can lead you to certain verses, books, chapters in Scripture for more information. The books of Daniel, Revelation, II Peter, Matthew and many more contain many passages addressing some of these things.
The book Late, Great, Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey is a book many recommend on this topic as well, although I have not read it myself.
Posts: 700 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Crusader
Community Member
Member # 4035
|
posted
Is the Rapture of the Church real? A friend of mine told me it began in a fictional story series, called "Left Behind" and people started to take it as the truth. Is it just a fictional story or is it true?
--------------------
Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and unless you save me I am lost forever. I thank you for dying for me at Calvary. I come to you now, Lord the best way I know how, and ask you to save me. I now receive you as my Savior. In Jesus Christ Name, Amen.
Posts: 19 | From: Tallahassee | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
