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Originally posted by Caretaker:
Acts 1:
9: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10: And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


Rev. 1:
7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matt. 25:
31: When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:


Let us believe the Bible not the deceived Parousia.

2 Tim. 4:
1: I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2: Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5: But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6: For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7: I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.


3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by Caretaker:
2 Tim. 3:
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Rev. 1:
3: Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
4: John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
5: And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6: And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


There will be those who are deceived and deny the Word.

There will be those who believe and receive the Word.

There will be those as the five wise virgins who the Bride Groom will gather.

There will be those as the five foolish who will be left behind and not enter into the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
thanks again. There is so much that the Bible has instore for us. God did not give us the Bible and forget about us. God knew this generation when He wrote the Bible though the pen of men. Knowing that God knew us before we were even born should make us all feel more special. God loved us before we were born.
betty

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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quote:

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Originally posted by Parousia:
One reason many believe the great tribulation is still a future even is seemingly unqualified statement in Matthew 24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

While the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 was certainly a calamity for the Jews,futurists argue,it was NOT the great tribulation that "will"take place on a [worldwide scale]..I believe scripture explains that the tribulation was local and confined to Judea.Matthew 23 Jesus condemmed the Pharisees and tells them that these judgements will come upon [this]generation that is==THEIR generation[23:26]Notice Jesus mourns over the city of "Jerusalem"(23:27}not the world,and He pronounces judgement upon the temple,leaving it,not a future temple,"desoloate" [23:38;24:2] The people live in houses with flat roofs [24:17]and the Sabbath was still in force with rigid travel restrictions[24:20].In Marks account of the Olivet discourse He tells us that the disciples will be delivered "up to the courts".flogged in the synagogues" and made to stand before govenors and kings[13:9] Matthew 10:17-18

But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

The Book of Acts actually tells us the FULFILLMENT of the prediction of Jesus about polictical tribulation [4:1-22;5:17-40;8:1-3;12:1-9;14:19-20;16:22-23;22:30-23:11....in the period BEFORE the destruction of Jerusalem..This explains clearly what life was like during the 1st century..The tribulation had reference to the Jews,the people of Judea....it was NOT a worldwide tribulation as many think and proclaim.

Those who remained in Jerusalem up unto the time of the temple's destruction had to be able to see the "abomination of desolation" [24:15]People around the globe will have no such advantage if what Jesus describes here as a worldwide tribulation period.The Only ones who can benefit are the ones who can see the temple..Another reason the trib is not global is because all one would have to do is flee to the mountains..Please notice what Jesus said and to WHOM he spoke.."let THOSE who be in Judea flee to the mountains [24:16] Judea is not the world;and it's not even in the nation of Israel..

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Revelation 3:10 is a verse used by many to teach a "tribulation"that is to come on the world.


Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Have you ever taken the time to look up the word [world] in this verse? It totally destroys the way people want to imply this verse..

Strongs number #3625-Strong's Ref. # 3625

Romanized oikoumene
Pronounced oy-kou-men'-ay

feminine participle present passive of GSN3611 (as noun, by implication of GSN1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specifically, the Roman empire:

The Roman empire?...this does not include the United States or does it include Russia...or even China..or any superpower we know of today..infact it strictly deals with the THEN known world of the 1st century!!!..what will you do with the truth?..you want to buy into the Tim Lahayes,Jack Van Impes,,Pat Robertsons opinion or would you rather believe the Bible many hold so dear?..this is in your Bible folks..and there is nothing you can do about it but believe it

Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by NotsoFast:

quote:

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Originally posted by Parousia:
One reason many believe the great tribulation is still a future even is seemingly unqualified statement in Matthew 24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

While the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 was certainly a calamity for the Jews,futurists argue,it was NOT the great tribulation that "will"take place on a [worldwide scale]..I believe scripture explains that the tribulation was local and confined to Judea.Matthew 23 Jesus condemmed the Pharisees and tells them that these judgements will come upon [this]generation that is==THEIR generation[23:26]Notice Jesus mourns over the city of "Jerusalem"(23:27}not the world,and He pronounces judgement upon the temple,leaving it,not a future temple,"desoloate" [23:38;24:2] The people live in houses with flat roofs [24:17]and the Sabbath was still in force with rigid travel restrictions[24:20].In Marks account of the Olivet discourse He tells us that the disciples will be delivered "up to the courts".flogged in the synagogues" and made to stand before govenors and kings[13:9] Matthew 10:17-18

But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

The Book of Acts actually tells us the FULFILLMENT of the prediction of Jesus about polictical tribulation [4:1-22;5:17-40;8:1-3;12:1-9;14:19-20;16:22-23;22:30-23:11....in the period BEFORE the destruction of Jerusalem..This explains clearly what life was like during the 1st century..The tribulation had reference to the Jews,the people of Judea....it was NOT a worldwide tribulation as many think and proclaim.

Those who remained in Jerusalem up unto the time of the temple's destruction had to be able to see the "abomination of desolation" [24:15]People around the globe will have no such advantage if what Jesus describes here as a worldwide tribulation period.The Only ones who can benefit are the ones who can see the temple..Another reason the trib is not global is because all one would have to do is flee to the mountains..Please notice what Jesus said and to WHOM he spoke.."let THOSE who be in Judea flee to the mountains [24:16] Judea is not the world;and it's not even in the nation of Israel..

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Clearly many people do not realize who Jesus was actually speaking too..If anyone would simply open their bible and look at vs 3..it tells who Jesus was speaking to...his apostles...He was talking to them..yet people want to take this scripture and make it mean for today..I will go with what is written..Thanks for the post Parousia

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Parousia:
One reason many believe the great tribulation is still a future even is seemingly unqualified statement in Matthew 24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

While the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 was certainly a calamity for the Jews,futurists argue,it was NOT the great tribulation that "will"take place on a [worldwide scale]..I believe scripture explains that the tribulation was local and confined to Judea.Matthew 23 Jesus condemmed the Pharisees and tells them that these judgements will come upon [this]generation that is==THEIR generation[23:26]Notice Jesus mourns over the city of "Jerusalem"(23:27}not the world,and He pronounces judgement upon the temple,leaving it,not a future temple,"desoloate" [23:38;24:2] The people live in houses with flat roofs [24:17]and the Sabbath was still in force with rigid travel restrictions[24:20].In Marks account of the Olivet discourse He tells us that the disciples will be delivered "up to the courts".flogged in the synagogues" and made to stand before govenors and kings[13:9] Matthew 10:17-18

But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

The Book of Acts actually tells us the FULFILLMENT of the prediction of Jesus about polictical tribulation [4:1-22;5:17-40;8:1-3;12:1-9;14:19-20;16:22-23;22:30-23:11....in the period BEFORE the destruction of Jerusalem..This explains clearly what life was like during the 1st century..The tribulation had reference to the Jews,the people of Judea....it was NOT a worldwide tribulation as many think and proclaim.

Those who remained in Jerusalem up unto the time of the temple's destruction had to be able to see the "abomination of desolation" [24:15]People around the globe will have no such advantage if what Jesus describes here as a worldwide tribulation period.The Only ones who can benefit are the ones who can see the temple..Another reason the trib is not global is because all one would have to do is flee to the mountains..Please notice what Jesus said and to WHOM he spoke.."let THOSE who be in Judea flee to the mountains [24:16] Judea is not the world;and it's not even in the nation of Israel..

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Posts: 6 | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
we have discussed this and there are many mentions of the person in the Bible of the antiChrist, even though they used different names for the same person.

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Daniel 7


Vision of the Four Beasts
7In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream and visions of his head while on his bed. Then he wrote down the dream, telling *the main facts.
2 Daniel spoke, saying, "I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea. 3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other. 4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 "And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: 'Arise, devour much flesh!'
6 "After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.
7 "After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.
Vision of the Ancient of Days
9 "I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The *court was seated,
And the books were opened.

11 "I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

13 "I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.
Daniel's Visions Interpreted
15 "I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit within my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16 I came near to one of those who stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of these things: 17 'Those great beasts, which are four, are four *kings which arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.'
19 "Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20 and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.
21 "I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.
23 "Thus he said:

'The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute* the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

26 'But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.'

28 "This is the end of the *account. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts greatly troubled me, and my countenance changed; but I kept the matter in my heart."

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To quote the part of Daniel-13 "I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.

Notice this says NOTHING about a rapture..it does not say Jesus coming to get his saints..

What does it say?..

Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,

He came to who?..Ancient of Days..Jesus presenting the Kingdom to His Father..this prophecy was fulfilled by Jesus when He came in 70 AD..this is my opinion

Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
The Jews will accept Jesus as their Messiah, but the Holy Spirit will deal differently with people then it does now. The Jews who reject Christ now, will go through the tribulation.
Jesus cried over Jerusalem the week before He died on the cross because He saw that they had rejected the truth which was He was their Messiah. The Bible says because they rejected Jesus they will as a Nation accept the anti-Christ as the Messiah. It will be only after the anti-Christ breaks the 7 year peace agreement with Israel that they will see him as the devil that he is.
betty

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Jesus told the discples that He had to go so the Comforter would come. It was not until the day of Pentecost that all believers could be filled with the Holy Spirit. Yes, it was the Jews but it was not just to any Jews but to those who had accepted Jesus. The Jews who have not accepted Jesus as their Savior are not filled with the Spirit.

It is because you do not believe in the trinity that you have an issue here. But like I said Jesus told the discples that He had to leave so the comforter could come.
betty


Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
The Age of the Gentiles began with the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit fell on the Apostles.
I will not see the anti-Christ because he will come in power after the rapture, but it will be easy for the whole world to see him, because of sattelite tv we can see things live from all over the world.
when the Jewish people see the anti-Christ proclaim himself as God in the Temple they will know the truth.
betty

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
I never said a Jew could not be saved. But God's focus is on the Church until the age of the Gentiles is over. After the rapture then the Church Age will cease. That is when God will call 144 thousand (not sure about the number at the moment, because i am hurting) Jews who will be wittnessing to Israel for Christ. The Bible makes it clear that this are real people who will be working for the cause of Christ.
At the half point of the peace aggrement that Israel will sign with the anti-Christ, the Jews will see the anti-Christ as being the devil that he is and they will have to flee. This is when the Bible says for them to pray that it is not winter nor are they nursing children when they have to flee.
betty

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Woe to them with child is not referring to the Church. The Church will not be here during the tribulation. This is referring to the Jewish people. At the moment of the rapture the Church Age begins and God's focus will be on Israel.
betty

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Parousia:
One reason many believe the great tribulation is still a future even is seemingly unqualified statement in Matthew 24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

While the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 was certainly a calamity for the Jews,futurists argue,it was NOT the great tribulation that "will"take place on a [worldwide scale]..I believe scripture explains that the tribulation was local and confined to Judea.Matthew 23 Jesus condemmed the Pharisees and tells them that these judgements will come upon [this]generation that is==THEIR generation[23:26]Notice Jesus mourns over the city of "Jerusalem"(23:27}not the world,and He pronounces judgement upon the temple,leaving it,not a future temple,"desoloate" [23:38;24:2] The people live in houses with flat roofs [24:17]and the Sabbath was still in force with rigid travel restrictions[24:20].In Marks account of the Olivet discourse He tells us that the disciples will be delivered "up to the courts".flogged in the synagogues" and made to stand before govenors and kings[13:9] Matthew 10:17-18

But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

The Book of Acts actually tells us the FULFILLMENT of the prediction of Jesus about polictical tribulation [4:1-22;5:17-40;8:1-3;12:1-9;14:19-20;16:22-23;22:30-23:11....in the period BEFORE the destruction of Jerusalem..This explains clearly what life was like during the 1st century..The tribulation had reference to the Jews,the people of Judea....it was NOT a worldwide tribulation as many think and proclaim.

Those who remained in Jerusalem up unto the time of the temple's destruction had to be able to see the "abomination of desolation" [24:15]People around the globe will have no such advantage if what Jesus describes here as a worldwide tribulation period.The Only ones who can benefit are the ones who can see the temple..Another reason the trib is not global is because all one would have to do is flee to the mountains..Please notice what Jesus said and to WHOM he spoke.."let THOSE who be in Judea flee to the mountains [24:16] Judea is not the world;and it's not even in the nation of Israel..

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged |