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Author
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Topic: Sun,Moon and Stars
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Parousia
Advanced Member
Member # 6448
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by MentorsRiddle:
There are many times in our lives when we must look at our own faith and question if we are living the correct one. Although some admit to this, there are many silent others who do not.
Prehaps you should look at your own soul and determine what is truth and untruth. Those on this board do not agree with your point of views P. At least none that I know of.
While I think that you are trying to spread truth, I think many here know that it is only the truth to you.
Prehaps you should question your faith base, and see if the corner stone is intact.
Biblical scholars have searched the scriptures for years to come to the conclusion that Jesus has not yet come.
But if all has been fulfilled as you say...
Then why is his kingdom not setup on this Earth?
Why has the old Earth not passed away?
Why has the old heaven not passed away?
The reason is because Jesus has not come yet.
I will speak no more.
I tell you I will not say anymore, because I have given you the truth.
It is your choice to see it.
God Bless and may the messengers of light watch over you and keep you.
Dear friend..thank you for the friendly advice
Mentor-Prehaps you should look at your own soul and determine what is truth and untruth. Those on this board do not agree with your point of views P. At least none that I know of.
And I am not forcing anyone to conform to my view..I have backed up everything with scripture and its all in your bible too..I have no secret Bible btw..I use the KJV
Mentor-While I think that you are trying to spread truth, I think many here know that it is only the truth to you.
I believe what I have read yes..and again all I say can be found within your Bible too!!
Mentor-
Prehaps you should question your faith base, and see if the corner stone is intact.
It is friend..Jesus taught it..I believe it..the apostles even taught it..What more can be said?
Mentor-Biblical scholars have searched the scriptures for years to come to the conclusion that Jesus has not yet come.
What?..You mean scofield? The pretrib view can be traced back to about 150-200 yrs..it is a fabricated doctrine not found in scripture and its creator is not Jesus Christ..but a said John Darby..To say Jesus did not fulfill ALL that was written is to call him a liar..I would not dare to do so..He said..ALL is fulfilled..ALL is a small word that means everything...
Mentor- But if all has been fulfilled as you say...
Then why is his kingdom not setup on this Earth?
It is..it has been..you have been taught dispensationalism..you have been fed this doctrine and quite frankly..its all you know..and its not your fault..You and many are "looking"for a physical literal Kingdom that is to come when YOUR bible says something totally different than what you were taught..How strongly do you really believe your Bible?Can you handle the truth?Do you want the truth? Please open your Bible to Luke 17:20
The Pharisees had the same mind set but only they "demanded"to know..you want to sit back and wait for it and Jesus clearly said
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Why are you physically looking for it?You watch CNN..you watch Israel today and she has NOTHING to do with it...
Luke 17:21-Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you...Where is it????? its WITHIN YOU..not from a future palestine state..not from a literal physical throne...its WITHIN you..Jesus has been reigning and ruling all this time..and to think how the church world has ripped him off of his glory..all along..He told us over and over..John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Yet people keep looking towards Israel..and what did Jesus say?..Its not even FROM THIS world...its doesnt come with observation..the Kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom..and the only way in is to be Born Again
John 3:5-Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Mentor-Why has the old Earth not passed away?
Why has the old heaven not passed away?
It has!!!! Heaven and earth is not what you think it is..its not what I think it is..It is what the BIBLE says it is..
Matthew 5:17-18-Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till HEAVEN and EARTH pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled
Do you believe the Law was fulfilled?
According to Jesus and Romans 8:3-4..the law WAS fulfilled!!!If heaven and earth did not pass..then we are STILL under the law!!!!!!
BTW- this planet earth is going nowhere..Ecc 1:4
One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever. The earth abides..FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!
Mentor-The reason is because Jesus has not come yet.
In your mind He hasnt..your looking for physical..this is what you been taught..What is Jesus today?..Is he physical?..How can we see him today?..Paul said he no longer knew Jesus after the flesh
2 Cor 5:16-Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. This is Paul..speaking about the risen Saviour..Paul does not even know Jesus to be flesh anymore..Paul does not even teach Jesus would ever put on flesh again..and the world is looking for a physical Jesus to appear?..Lets be reasonable..scripture does not say that..We will see him AS HE IS!!!!!and that will happen..upon death..The hope of the gospel..is the RESSURECTION....
Mentor-I will speak no more.
For some reason..I kinda doubt that..lol
Mentor-I tell you I will not say anymore, because I have given you the truth.
Dear Mentor..all you have given me was your opinion..not one time did you present scripture..and you want me to believe what you said is truth?...
Mentor-It is your choice to see it
Amen..and I keep a open heart and mind..and allow scripture to be the final say so in my life..It is also your choice as well..I am not here to force my opinion on anyone..and I hope nobody thinks that..May God bless you also..
Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
There are many times in our lives when we must look at our own faith and question if we are living the correct one. Although some admit to this, there are many silent others who do not.
Prehaps you should look at your own soul and determine what is truth and untruth. Those on this board do not agree with your point of views P. At least none that I know of.
While I think that you are trying to spread truth, I think many here know that it is only the truth to you.
Prehaps you should question your faith base, and see if the corner stone is intact.
Biblical scholars have searched the scriptures for years to come to the conclusion that Jesus has not yet come.
But if all has been fulfilled as you say...
Then why is his kingdom not setup on this Earth?
Why has the old Earth not passed away?
Why has the old heaven not passed away?
The reason is because Jesus has not come yet.
I will speak no more.
I tell you I will not say anymore, because I have given you the truth.
It is your choice to see it.
God Bless and may the messengers of light watch over you and keep you.
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Parousia
Advanced Member
Member # 6448
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
quote:
Originally posted by Parousia:
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Acts 1:
9: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10: And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Rev. 1:
7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Matt. 25:
31: When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
The Lord Jesus Christ WILL COME, and every EYE SHALL SEE.
No amount of denial by a deceived Parousia or the little yes-man Notsofast will in any way change the TRUTH of God's Word.
Jesus is Coming.
Maranatha!!!!!!!
LOL..there is no denying..I agree..its there in plain KJV english..every eye will see INCLUDES those who pierced him...are you willing to say they those individuals who pierced him are alive somewhere today on this earth?
Yes the House of David is still alive, and thge Jews are in the Promised Land:
Zech. 12:
10: And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Nation Israel WILL mourn for our Lord Jesus Christ when they come to realize that He IS Messiah Ha'Mesheach.
Rev. 1:
7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Zech 12:10 was fulfilled!!!!!!!!!
John 19:33-37-But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
36 For these things WERE DONE, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall LOOK ON HIM whom they pierced.
Revelation 1:7...those who pierced him...How do you ignore the obvious?..it plainly says.[those who pierced]him..Do you understand what that means?..the very ones who nailed him to the cross..will see him...it is either they SAW him come back in their lifetime..or we have a serious problem..we have individuals living today who are more than 2000 yrs old...incredible life span..
Revelation 22:7...Behold, I come quickly
22:12....And, behold, I come QUICKLY; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
22:20- Surely I come QUICKLY....
Quickly is a word that has a meaning..the greek meaning
Strong's Ref. # 5035
Romanized tachu
Pronounced takh-oo'
neuter singular of GSN5036 (as adverb); shortly, i.e. without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication, of ease) readily:
shortly,without delay..SOON...How can this possibly mean to stretch it out past 2000 yrs?
Also..we find in Matthew 28:7...
And go QUICKLY, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
Same greek word..Do you suppose it took Mary more than 2000 yrs to go and tell the disciples?
Matthew 28:7-And they departed QUICKLY from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
Did he take the disciples more than 2000 yrs to leave the sepulchre?
Jesus told Judas..what thou doest...do QUICKLY..
Did it take Judas 2000 yrs?..course not..the word means what it says..Its easy to believe Mary left right away or soon..its easy to see the disciples took off shortly..and its is easy to see Judas acted in a hurry to betray the Lord..but when it comes to the very words of Jesus..and he plainly said..He was coming QUICKLY..the prophecy brakes get applied and all the sudden people cannot believe He just spoke them words...somebody surely misquoted his words..surely there is a misprint...sorry to say there is no error in the words of Jesus..He said what He meant and He meant what He said..I want to add something you might be overlooking..Your reading 1st century writing..with 21st century glasses on..otherwords..read it from THEIR persepective..How did the original audience view the bible?..I believe when we look at scripture THROUGH THEIR eyes..we can easily see what..how..and why...something was said..spoken..or taught...and let us not forget what John said to begin the Book of Revelation
Rev 1:1-The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto HIS SERVANTS things which must SHORTLY COME TO PASS; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Parousia:
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Acts 1:
9: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10: And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Rev. 1:
7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Matt. 25:
31: When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
The Lord Jesus Christ WILL COME, and every EYE SHALL SEE.
No amount of denial by a deceived Parousia or the little yes-man Notsofast will in any way change the TRUTH of God's Word.
Jesus is Coming.
Maranatha!!!!!!!
LOL..there is no denying..I agree..its there in plain KJV english..every eye will see INCLUDES those who pierced him...are you willing to say they those individuals who pierced him are alive somewhere today on this earth?
Yes the House of David is still alive, and thge Jews are in the Promised Land:
Zech. 12:
10: And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Nation Israel WILL mourn for our Lord Jesus Christ when they come to realize that He IS Messiah Ha'Mesheach.
Rev. 1:
7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Parousia
Advanced Member
Member # 6448
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Acts 1:
9: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10: And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Rev. 1:
7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Matt. 25:
31: When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
The Lord Jesus Christ WILL COME, and every EYE SHALL SEE.
No amount of denial by a deceived Parousia or the little yes-man Notsofast will in any way change the TRUTH of God's Word.
Jesus is Coming.
Maranatha!!!!!!!
LOL..there is no denying..I agree..its there in plain KJV english..every eye will see INCLUDES those who pierced him...are you willing to say they those individuals who pierced him are alive somewhere today on this earth?
Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
Acts 1:
9: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10: And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Rev. 1:
7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Matt. 25:
31: When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
The Lord Jesus Christ WILL COME, and every EYE SHALL SEE.
No amount of denial by a deceived Parousia or the little yes-man Notsofast will in any way change the TRUTH of God's Word.
Jesus is Coming.
Maranatha!!!!!!!
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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NotsoFast
New Member
Member # 6469
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Parousia:
Matthew 24:29-Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Millions take this verse literally and use it as their "proof"Jesus has not come simply because this has not happened in world history...what your paperbacks,tim lahayes,Dwight Pentecost and even your Dallas Theological Seminary will not tell you..the mentioning of the sun,moon,and stars disapearing..is nothing new to the 1st century believer!!!...they heard it all before..!
We have to remember one thing we all forget..The 1st century did not have a Barnes and Noble..they didnt have 10 or more translations to read from..no..all they had was the Old Testament and with that book..the 1st century church was all to familiar and they knew it better than anyone living today...so when Jesus mantions Matthew 24:29..they did not shake in their boots...they realized something that many do not today..it was the language..
The imagery cosmic phenomena is used to describe historical facts of judgement that came in the OT to nations...so mentioning this language again in the NT..is nothing new..least not to the 1st century...they understood..the end of a nation was at hand..
Isa 13:10- For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
A description of a localized judgement of a world power that once existed long ago...
who did God bring against them to judge Babylon?
Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. This proves that the Babylon ago is the object of judgement!! and the disciples..[audience of Matt 24] understood very well..
Ezekiel 32:7-8-And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD
Egypts conqueror was Babylon [32:11]
For thus saith the Lord GOD; The sword of the king of Babylon shall come upon thee.
Lights out for Edom!!!
{Isa 34:4-5]
And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
Did God come down [physcially]and mete out judgement?..course not..Notice the text says that [His sword] shall descend for judgement upon Edom..Did a giant sword come down from heaven? Did the host of heaven wear away?..Did the sky roll up like a scroll?..such language that was used was simply describing Edom's national judgement
Matthew 24:29 is a description of coming judgement upon the "end of the age"of the Jewish law system..and the disciples understood this very clearly..and yet today..millions have made profits off of book sale after book sale promoting a theory that can not be proven in a future tense.People choose to buy into the doom and gloom..and believe there is better tomorrow on the horizon and fail to realize the true message Jesus proclaimed..I am alive and well..and I reign over all...and MY KINGDOM is within YOU..not from a throne in a palestine state.
Awesome post...It is true Parousia..reference to the Sun.moon,Stars can be found in the Old testament as well and like you said...it was not literal..or else..we would not be here...
Posts: 6 | Registered: Mar 2007
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Parousia
Advanced Member
Member # 6448
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posted
Matthew 24:29-Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Millions take this verse literally and use it as their "proof"Jesus has not come simply because this has not happened in world history...what your paperbacks,tim lahayes,Dwight Pentecost and even your Dallas Theological Seminary will not tell you..the mentioning of the sun,moon,and stars disapearing..is nothing new to the 1st century believer!!!...they heard it all before..!
We have to remember one thing we all forget..The 1st century did not have a Barnes and Noble..they didnt have 10 or more translations to read from..no..all they had was the Old Testament and with that book..the 1st century church was all to familiar and they knew it better than anyone living today...so when Jesus mantions Matthew 24:29..they did not shake in their boots...they realized something that many do not today..it was the language..
The imagery cosmic phenomena is used to describe historical facts of judgement that came in the OT to nations...so mentioning this language again in the NT..is nothing new..least not to the 1st century...they understood..the end of a nation was at hand..
Isa 13:10- For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
A description of a localized judgement of a world power that once existed long ago...
who did God bring against them to judge Babylon?
Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. This proves that the Babylon ago is the object of judgement!! and the disciples..[audience of Matt 24] understood very well..
Ezekiel 32:7-8-And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD
Egypts conqueror was Babylon [32:11]
For thus saith the Lord GOD; The sword of the king of Babylon shall come upon thee.
Lights out for Edom!!!
{Isa 34:4-5]
And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
Did God come down [physcially]and mete out judgement?..course not..Notice the text says that [His sword] shall descend for judgement upon Edom..Did a giant sword come down from heaven? Did the host of heaven wear away?..Did the sky roll up like a scroll?..such language that was used was simply describing Edom's national judgement
Matthew 24:29 is a description of coming judgement upon the "end of the age"of the Jewish law system..and the disciples understood this very clearly..and yet today..millions have made profits off of book sale after book sale promoting a theory that can not be proven in a future tense.People choose to buy into the doom and gloom..and believe there is better tomorrow on the horizon and fail to realize the true message Jesus proclaimed..I am alive and well..and I reign over all...and MY KINGDOM is within YOU..not from a throne in a palestine state.
Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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