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Topic: HEY YOU! WHO’S SIDE ARE YOU ON ANYWAY?
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TB125
Advanced Member
Member # 2450
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posted
Marcopolio, you say that you are quote:
hoping to find some people willing to DISCUSS the christian faith with me
, so you have joined this forum.
I would be glad to discuss the "christian faith" with you, but I'm not going to engage in endless and fruitless debate with you to try to prove any of my points with you.
I have a personal website that is focused on the Christian faith and some other interesting topics. It includes a basic statement on the nature of Christian faith, a statement on "Truth", one on "Why Jesus?", one you may find interesting on "Getting into heaven" and several others that you may find interesting. You can find it here: http://christianityetc.org
I invite you to check it out. I will be glad to respond to any questions that you may have about any of my statements. OK? I hope to hear from you in this forum or by email.
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Bob
Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
I did not mean my comment to be an insult, but fact. I have read several of your posts and I hear in them a complete disregard or ignorance of God's omnipotence and sovereignty.
I do think that the Gnostics have value. They show what the mind set of some were at the time; they show the apostasy of gnosticism that was dealt with first by the spostles and then later by the eccumenical counsels.
Your posts witness what happens when we do not have a standard on which to base our world view. God does not change. God is the same yesterday today and forever. His word is not gray. It is not changed by archaeological discovery, popular culture of the time or place etc.
You think that I am ignorant or fearful. I am neither ignorant nor fearful. I have just come to the place in my walk where my faith is in God alone. I have no faith in man and especially this woman. If the word says that something is so, then it is so, and I dont care how things appear in the world, or whether my empirical knowledge is contrary or whether my feelings or experiences are contrary. In the end when all is said and done I want my faith to be in HIM alone.
Faith is the evidence of things NOT SEEN.
If you want discuss the Nephilm then post a post about the Nephilim, but any discussion you get here will likely be based on a Biblical wordlview and not based on something that is written in a gnotic writing.
If we dont have a standard.. a place where the buck stops, a place where things either agree or disagree then there can be no truth. it is like.. If everything is Holy then nothing is Holy.
If I have no standard, then the next time someone digs something up from a cave that says Jesus was just a man and not the Messiah or was not without sin or what ever lie the enemy wants to propgate without the standard of the scripture then those things become possibility and the truth is not known. We must have a standard and for the Christian it must be the Bible.
Today we see the results in our church buildings of this being neglected.. For example, several years ago the Lutheran church decided that the Bible was not inerrant and today we have the ordination of homosexuals and many other things that are contrary to the scripture.
Gnosticism is heresy. Paul, Peter, John and Jude all speak against Gnosticism. The eccumenical councils of the church refuted Gnosticism. At the root of Gnostic thinking is Humanism and this is a denial of the omnipotence and sovereignty of God.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Marcopolio
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posted
Nice post Homeschooler... It really sheds light on why you dont feel that the Gnostics hold value.. Maybe you could explain? Think a little or even dare I say debate? Show some proof? Your post is about the same as saying "I know you are but what am I" Really ignorant. You do everyone here a disservice by spreading your ignorance and fear. No one has anything to gain here. I will probably leave soon, its clear that I am not wanted here, I was just hoping to find some people willing to DISCUSS the christian faith with me and not looking for people who are ignorant and closed minded.
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Marcopolio
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Wow! Now I have my own false gosepel!??? You guys are great.. just creating reality around you as you go.. dont like it, it doesnt exisit.
Brilliant!
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
The value of the gnostic books that you speak of is witnessed in your posts here.
There is hardly one of them that I have read which does not speak with ignorance of God's omnipotence and sovereignty.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
Marcopolio,
You are the one that seems to be doing most of the attacking.
When you signed in to be on the BBS you were told what we believe:
The Holy Scriptures as originally given, inspired by God, to be the only infallible authority in all matters of faith and practice.
http://www.christian-chats.net/statement.htm
So if you don't believe this, you are not welcome to come here and debate it because it is not debatable. As it is the truth.
Do not contiune tryint to teach your false gospel here or you will be banned. Period.
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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Marcopolio
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posted
Wow, yet another attack on my faith.. I love you guys! You are so smart and godlike to be able to see into my soul! I will bet non-christians are flocking to you just to be ridiculed..
Anyhow.. With that out of the way, I am a Christian, you cant take that away from me because you dont agree. I am not telling you that you have to agree with me, I am just presenting my views as a way to get some perspective. I dont understand why that requires a personal attack from other Christians? We are brothers.
As for Jesus, Of course I believe he is the son of God. But As far as scripture goes, I even find parts of the gospels suspect. I have been reading the Books of the Gnostics. Which if you arent aware, are the books of the bible that were Ommited from the bible by Constantine. They were ommited for various reasons, but its very simple truth is that the bible has been revised and edited just like any other book.
There were some very strange things that I had read in the bible, and the books of gnostics tell you where some of those things come from. For example the race of giants as referred to in the book of Genisis. Its never really explained, and they never go back to it In the Gnostics, it claims that after the fall of the angels, some of them bred with humans and had children. These were the race of giants. Well Constantine, didnt feel like people would be willing to believe something so fantastic and left the explaination of the race of giants out of what we know as the old testament.
There is also the gospel of Mary. Which I believe wasn't able to be substantiated because the oldest written copy was found to be written 200 years BC. However It just goes to show that there was a lot that Jesus said and did that was not recorded, or very simply was ommited. So please dont try to tell me that the bible is a Perfect book and that God would not allow it to change... Just think about how many different VERSIONS of the bible there are.. and how nothing has stopped other religions from either changing, or adding to the Bible. I mean God didnt stop the Mormons from writing a whole new appendix to the Bible. So your arguements about it all being purely the divine word of God is flawed.
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
Marcopolio, I am sorry that someone has lied to you and you are so decieved. I hope that all true Christians on this BBS will join with me to pray for you to find the Truth about Yeshua and His Word.
Your beleif system is built on Humanism, as is much of the apostate Church is today.
Only Yahweh can open your blind eyes.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
quote:
so many people throw around scripture here.. its like AMMO.. what about what people think? Are people afraid to think? Are you afraid to critically ask yourself how much of the Bible you believe?
I personally believe that the Bible is our guide as Christians, but that as a work of Mankind, it is flawed. I think Faith comes into play in that you cant lean on the Bible like a crutch, expecting to give you nice little quotes to answer everything that life presents to you, but that you actually have to think about the meaning behind it.
We think ... we just have purposed not to think contrary to the scripture...
Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Pr 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Most of us here have decided that we believe ALL of the scripture.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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HE LIVES
Advanced Member
Member # 4931
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posted
Marcopolio,
I just want to ask you one question. Do you believe that Jesus was the Son of God, and that he knew God's will for our lives?
If you answered yes to the question then I just have one more question for you.
Why didn't He tell us that the very scriptures that He quoted from were man made and not to be believed?
I'll tell you why, because He knew that they were True, as He said "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God".
Think about it.
Posts: 182 | From: Missouri | Registered: Aug 2005
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TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
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posted
Isa 45:17[But] Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
The Sealed of Israel
7After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads." 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.
Isa 46:13I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
Isa 49:3And said unto me, Thou [art] my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
Reject the Word and you reject He who the Word reveals. God manifest in the flesh, the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Romans 1:
16: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17: For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19: Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20: For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23: And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24: Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Marcopolio
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posted
Yes, In my great wisdom I do. When God comes and tells me himslef that he likes Jews more than Anglos, or Asians.. I will apologize. Until then I will have to acredit the scripture being written as it was to some ethnocentric jews that WANTED to be the chosen race of God. You see MEN are flawed, and MEN wrote the Bible. I am sorry.. but its true. I know people hate to hear that arguement.. and I have heard arguements to the contrary.. but if you take every single word of the bible to be the truth.. your doing yourself and God a disservice. I would think God would want us to make choices for oursleves, not just be walking automatons that believe everything they are sold becuase someone older and wiser than them told them so.
so many people throw around scripture here.. its like AMMO.. what about what people think? Are people afraid to think? Are you afraid to critically ask yourself how much of the Bible you believe?
I personally believe that the Bible is our guide as Christians, but that as a work of Mankind, it is flawed. I think Faith comes into play in that you cant lean on the Bible like a crutch, expecting to give you nice little quotes to answer everything that life presents to you, but that you actually have to think about the meaning behind it.
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
Marcopolio:
Dont you think its possible they just made up that whole chosen people of the lord thing? I would find it hard to believe that an omnicient being would say that..
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So in your great wisdom you deny what the Word of God declares?
God chose Abraham and through Abraham Issac, and through Jacob who became Israel. After 400 years of captivity God raised up Moses and he led the Children of Israel out of Egypt, and into the wildreness. God gave Moses the Law unto the Children of Israel. Through the Children of Israel came King David and through King David came the man Jesus fully man and Fully God manifest in the flesh, the Messiah of Israel and the Savior of all who will come unto Him.
The Lord Jesus Christ validated the Word. God revealed and inspired the Word. God illuminates the Word in the hearts and lives of Believers. The Believer follows the Word and the Lord Jesus Christ is Lord of the heart and life of the Believer.
You deny what the Word declares.
2 Tim. 3:
14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
You stated that you were a "christian", in another thread.
One can take a "christian tag", but if they deny the Word, if their faith is not in Christ Jesus our Lord. If their is no spiritual fruit present, then the tag may be just lip-service and not reality.
Turn your heart to the Living Christ, the Lamb of God and the LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDAH. Wow the tribe of Judah is one of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, one of the Children of Israel. God's Chosen People.
Romans 11:
25: For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
26: And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28: As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29: For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Israel:
Rev. 12:
1: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3: And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4: And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5: And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6: And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8: And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10: And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11: And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12: Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13: And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14: And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15: And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16: And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev. 19:
10: And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
11: And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12: His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13: And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14: And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15: And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16: And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Marcopolio
unregistered
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posted
Dont you think its possible they just made up that whole chosen people of the lord thing? I would find it hard to believe that an omnicient being would say that..
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
De 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
De 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
This does not make God racist... there is one race.. human. God is however a nationalist. He has chosen the nation of Israel above all nations.
He is God and HE can chose whom he wants..
Ro 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
freddie05 quote:
I don´t know about the rest of you, but I can not imagine Jesus walking among 500 dead civilians and analyzing how those dead fit in to a view of the end times eschatology. I believe he would be exerting more emotion grieving than waving an Israeli flag.
I can't imagine the 6 millions Jews murdered at the hands of Hitler/Germany
or
the 12 million Christians killed at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church
and how it fits into end time eschatology
but then I'm not God.
But I know I believe the scriptures and the scriptures tell me plainly that Israel is the apple of Yahweh's eye.
Zec 2:8 ¶ For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
Zech. 14:
1: Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2: For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3: Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4: And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5: And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8: And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9: And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Marcopolio
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posted
I agree, if you think God would side with Israel, why not convert to judiasm? I personally dont think that god would be a racist. Thats what your saying when you say that he has chosen the people of Isreal.
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ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sussy:
as a believer, we must stay on God’s side
I think that the difference between us is that I don't think God is always on Israel's side.
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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freddy05
Advanced Member
Member # 5854
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posted
Israel has sinned many times. The example below from 2 Kings is only one example. There are many more. Don´t support Israel in whatever they do just because its Israel.
THINK for yourself. Don´t just take foxnews, raptureready.com, Hal Lindsay, or some modern packaged view of how the end times will play out at face value.
I don´t know about the rest of you, but I can not imagine Jesus walking among 500 dead civilians and analyzing how those dead fit in to a view of the end times eschatology. I believe he would be exerting more emotion grieving than waving an Israeli flag.
If you support sin, then guess who´s side you are on.
2 Kings
17:7 For so it was, that the children of Israel had sinned against the LORD their God, which had brought them up out of the land of Egypt, from under the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and had feared other gods,
17:8 And walked in the statutes of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel, and of the kings of Israel, which they had made.
17:9 And the children of Israel did secretly those things that were not right against the LORD their God.
Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2006
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Sussy
New Member
Member # 5889
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posted
Having spent the past week praying for Israel and keeping myself informed about the happenings there, I am seeing the prophecies of the
Bible come to pass right before my eyes. All the things that have transpired in the last three weeks, are all precursors of the prophecy yet to be fulfilled. What is that?
Isaiah 17:1?The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
When doing a search on Damascus, when I googled this ancient city, this is what I found:
Damascus (Arabic: transliterated Dimashq Also commonly: ash-Sh?m) is the capital and largest city of Syria. Founded approximately 2500 BCE, it is thought to be the oldest continuously-inhabited city in the world, before Al Fayyum, and Gaziantep. Its current population is estimated at about 4.5 million. (as you can see, the prophecy in Isaiah has never been fulfilled).
Many Bible scholars believe that this will happen prior to or right after the rapture of the church. Next on my prophetic calendar will be the buried feelings and emotions of countries that have always hated Israel, to come to the surface. The destruction of Damascus, and a Russian-Arab coalition, including Turkey, will move toward their prophesied destiny.
Also, Iran’s plans for ushering in the 12th Iman, beginning with an escalation with the current war, leading to World War 3
(if we’re not already there).
I’m sure by now you have heard of Mel Gibson’s episode involving his anti-semitic rants. I don’t have a comment on that, but as we see Israel everyday in the news and the bombings of Lebanon, we must not lose focus, that Israel is God’s chosen people and that, as a believer, we must stay on God’s side regardless of what it may seem like in the natural.
There are only two sides in this conflict: good versus evil.
WHO’S SIDE ARE YOU ON ???
The pieces are finally coming together.
visit us at:
http://web.mac.com/itisfinished/iWeb...ANCE/HOME.html
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-KEEP LOOKING UP-
Posts: 5 | From: Italy | Registered: Jun 2006
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