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Author
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Topic: A riddle of Revelation 13:17
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studious
Community Member
Member # 5867
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posted
"But of the times and the seasons, brethern, ye have no need that I write unto you.
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
But ye, brethern, are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you as a thief.
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breatplate of faith and love; and for a helmet, the hope of salvation.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ."
1 thessalonians 5: 1-9, authorized version.
So some things can be known. Sudden destruction, for instance, seems to imply the tribulation, which is the time when God pours Wrath upon the earth. Thus, if we are not appointed to wrath, that time must see us Gone with the Wind!
And in Rev, it mentions the earth and its people being drunken with the wine of the church Mystery Babylon. rev 17:2. Furthermore, it is some church or religious orders that God says is drunken with the blood of the saints and the martyrs of Jesus.
Rev 17:9 doesn't say "And ye who know her are guilty of hate crimes for knowing and speaking publically about another persons faith." So the book of Revelation is contrary to the end times when Mystery Babylon is so drunk that she reveals herself to be The Woman riding the political powers of the earth, the beast. But whaat Revelation says in the ninth verse is that "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth."
So the mother of harlots and abominations has a location we can know, and has been around a while, in order for all the blood shed to be laid at her feet.
Who might it be? OH MY IF WE COULD ONLY UNDERSTAND!
AND this beast and woman fuse together: These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength to the beast.
And what do they do? Verse 14 in 17 chapter says:
"These shall make war with the Lamb..."
So we can see the coalitions forming for the latter days when the world will come against the Jew in Jerusalem, especially after they convert with the 144,000, and the whole earth will rage against them over their Divine right to the land from the nile river to the Euphratis valley.
And no one else has the slightes right to one square inch.
Dispute that? Well, you fight with the Lamb, then.
Posts: 15 | From: Indiana | Registered: Jun 2006
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ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I think that the more we seek to see Christ in the book of Revelation the more obvious who and what all the other players are becomes.
That's a really interesting idea, not a way that I'd thought of it before. How do you mean this in practice?
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
The important thing to remember about studying the book of Revelation is to remember WHO it reveals... it reveals CHRIST.
The book is about CHRIST... the Lamb who was slain that is coming again the Lion of the Tribe of Judah.. the King of Kings... GOD almighty... the Alpha & Omega!
It is not the Revelation of the AntiChrist.. it is the Revelation of THE CHRIST of GOD.
I think that the more we seek to see Christ in the book of Revelation the more obvious who and what all the other players are becomes.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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InHisName
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Member # 5853
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posted
Hi Folks,
My name is Bob, and I'm fairly new to the the message board. Hope I'm not intruding. I also agree that one shouldn't completely focus on the end times. However, I'm also always struck by Revelation 1:3 - "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it".
John's words certainly don't tell me that we should completely dwell on this book, however, he seems to feel that reading it is pretty important...
-Bob
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It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery Galatians 5:1-26
Posts: 6 | From: Chelmsford, Massachusetts | Registered: Jun 2006
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
Andy,
I see where you are coming from. We as Christians can do even little things to help each other out. My hubby, will often think of those around us who can't afford fresh fruit and even though we are retired and on a fixed income, he will pick up some fruit and take to a neighbor.
I love studying about the end times and pray every day for the soon coming of our Lord and Savior, Jesus. But until He does come back for me, I must still be working for Him. I can't sit on the sidelines doing nothing waiting for His return.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
ahar,
I believe there is enough hours in the day to help others and study Revleations.
We are doing a study in Sunday School at my Church.
betty
Hi Betty
I think a study at Sunday School is an excellent idea!
What I was trying to refer to (and didn't do it very well) is to guard against spending large amounts of time looking to the future and predict when the events as described by John may come about, and forgetting that our main responsibilities as Christians rest with the here and now - spreading the word, helping those in need etc.
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
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posted
ahar,
I believe there is enough hours in the day to help others and study Revleations.
We are doing a study in Sunday School at my Church.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rogg
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Member # 5394
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posted
Though the Bible speaks of the AC being of Roman decent. I have also read that the AC will be an Assyrian. When AC's fatal wound is healed, the beast that accends out of the bottomless pit comes to breath life back into the AC. In Hebrew, this is calculated as Nero, also in Daniel it talks about the Prince that destroyed Israel also makes a treaty with many for 7 years, is also Nero.
Revelation 17:10-11
10.There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.
11."And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.
The beast from the bottomless pit is of Roman decent.
Posts: 83 | From: St. Louis MO | Registered: Jan 2006
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InHisName
New Member
Member # 5853
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posted
Hi SpiritSeeker,
Good observation on Solana. When I looked at his biography on wikipedia.com, I found this at the bottom. Note the end of the first sentence. The Bible says that the AC will be of Roman decent. Do you think it means having to be of birth descent?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javier_Solana
He is a Knight of the Order of St Michael and St George, a member of the Spanish section of the Club of Rome. He has received the Grand Cross of Isabel the Catholic in Spain and the Manfred Wörner Medal from the German Defence Ministry. He has been President of the Madariaga European Foundation since 1998. He received the Vision for Europe Award in 2003. Also in 2003, he received the 'Statesman of the Year Award' from the EastWest Institute, a Transatlantic think tank that organizes an annual Security Conference in Brussels
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It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery Galatians 5:1-26
Posts: 6 | From: Chelmsford, Massachusetts | Registered: Jun 2006
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Spirit Seeker
New Member
Member # 5841
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posted
Check out Javier Solana. I think what he has done, who he is, what his itinerary is like, and what his plans are for the future will make your eyes pop.
Even if he isn't the anti-christ, his role in heralding in the New World Order will be undisputable.
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Through God all things are possible!
Posts: 4 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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Duane
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Member # 5643
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posted
The verse(Matt.24:36/Mark 13:32= No man knows...)is a reference to a Jewish wedding custom of Jesus' day. The bridegroom(Jesus) would leave his bride(the church)and go to his father's house(heaven),where he would build on the rooms(many mansions) for his bride. He would stay there until the father(God)said that it was finished. Then the father would tell the bridegroom to go get his bride(the rapture). So when a bridegroom was asked when he would return, he would kind of shrug and say, Only my father knows. We aren't prohibited in any way from guessing who the antichrist is, but 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 tells us that he won't even be revealed until the church(the restrainer empowered by the Holy Spirit) is removed. But it's still fun to guess! BTW: it can't be Abbas(Abu Mazen) because he doesn't fit the scriptural profile: no respect for the gods of his fathers, doesn't desire a woman, stern faced, comes in peace but is actually a warrior(Abbas was Yasser Arafat's second in command of the PLO, from which the Fatah Party is an offshoot--so he is by no means a peacemaker). I do look for the antichrist to come from Islam(with some help from the RCC).
-Duane
Posts: 5 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Apr 2006
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trafield
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Member # 5358
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posted
quote:
I think too many Christians spend time focused on Revelations and possible interpretations, when that time could be better spent helping others.
I see it quite the opposite.
I see too many Christians not concerning themselves with prophecy even though we are commanded to watch and to know the times we are living in.
Posts: 225 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Dec 2005
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ahar
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Member # 5810
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posted
I think too many Christians spend time focused on Revelations and possible interpretations, when that time could be better spent helping others.
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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trafield
Advanced Member
Member # 5358
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posted
quote:
That verse is often used to say we should not guess who it could be but I don't see it being about that. I mean not knowing the day doesn't mean we can't guess about the person. just a thought.
betty
Not only that, Betty, but we are called to have wisdom and insight to calculate the number of the beast (Revelation 13:18).
Posts: 225 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Dec 2005
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
That verse is often used to say we should not guess who it could be but I don't see it being about that. I mean not knowing the day doesn't mean we can't guess about the person. just a thought.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
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posted
Are you saying Mahmood Abas (AKA Abu Mazen) the Palestinian President may be the anti-christ?
Don't forget Matthew 13 verse 32:
32"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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ephraim65
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Member # 4998
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posted
666
Here is a riddle for prophecy scholars to ponder. Let's say there is this man who lives in a distant place and he is also the leader of his country. His government was created by the world for the sole purpose of giving his people a homeland. In the course of his reign another party comes to power. Both have aspirations of a homeland. The latter party, being elected by their people legitimately, not only wants a homeland but all of the land in question. During the reign of this opposing regime the world has said we will no longer deal with this new party. It just so happens that this government was almost totally supported by the outside world. Furthermore, most of the money supplied this government came from nations that were culturally different. Now the world having dealt with the original government decides it can no longer support the present one and cuts off all funding. What is the world to do? It cannot support a government that wants independence for itself and wants to take away the independence of its neighbor. Also, it doesn't want to fund security forces that would be used to further this goal. Nevertheless, many of this government's employees provided health care and necessary humanitarian services to its people. So the world says we will fund this people as long the funding goes through one man. We will set up a temporary mechanism and allow this funding to get to these essential humanitarian needs. This money will allow these organizations to continue functioning and prevent total collapse of the government. More than that, it will provide needed funds to the employees who haven't been paid in months. Who Am I?
Remember the mark of the beast can be three things: his mark, his number or his Name.
Ephraim
Posts: 33 | Registered: Aug 2005
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