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Topic: The So called Christian Music of today is a sign of the endtimes
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WildB
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Project Canterbury
A Sermon Delivered in the Cathedral Church of Canterbury,
Concerning Church-musick
by John Reading
[1588-1667]
London: Printed by Thomas Newcomb, 1663.
2 KING. 3.15, 16.
--And it came to pass when the Minstrel played, that the hand of the Lord came upon him; And he said--
I Come to you this day (as Jacob to Padan-Aram) to remove the Stone and Rock of Offence taken at our Church-Musick, that the Flock may be watered. My endeavour shall be (by Gods assistance, and your wonted. patience) to shew why we use it, and you should joyn with us therein; and my desire is your serious attention, left the loss of one point beget a misunderstanding in others.
God mercifully indulgeth to mans infirmity, omitting no means to save him, as 'tis written--What could have been done more to my Vineyard, that I have not done in it? Whereas therefore mans innate affections bear a great part in good or evil, much byassing the Will and Understanding to either; God, not willing to destroy, but to correct the Affections, that they may be necessary hand-maids to Virtue, saith not, Thou shalt not hope, but, Hope thou in God: Neither, Thou shalt not fear, but, Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God: so,--Thou shalt love the Lord thy God: and Ye that love the Lord, hate evil: and Delight thy self also in the Lord, and he shall give thee the desires of thy heart.
The Holy Ghost, seeing mankinde hardly drawn to Virtue, and that Righteousness is less esteemed, by reason of our Affections proneness to that which delighteth; in his Wisdom, mingled Heavenly Mysteries with pleasing Melody, that by the Ear he might secretly convey the Treasure of Divine good into the Soul: To which purpose were those melodious Hymns and Psalms appointed for us, in God's service, that we might at once be both delighted, and profited.
To the words of the Text; It came so pass when the Minstrel played, Et suit secundumm modulari modulantem: Thus it came to pass by Gods Providence so appointing it. The LXX, give the Hebrew mng' in the Greek, by o yallwn, the Singer, or Musician: The word is of that which signifieth to sing or make musick; and here signifieth any kind of Musician skilfull in singing, or playing on Instruments, Lute, Harp; Organ, or other like: the fence is, When the Prophet heard the Musick, the hand of the Lord came upon him, that is, a Divine motion, or influence of Gods Spirit: and he said--or spake the words of the following Prophecy. Here are two Causes of the Effect following.
The
1. Subordinate, or minus principalis--it came to pass, when the Minstrel played.
2. Principal, chief, and supream, efficient, producing the effect; He said, Thus saith the Lord.
I. That such a Cause as a little Musick should open the Archives of Gods secret counsel, concerning things to come, in matters so dubious and unexpected, of such high consequence and concernment, as the saving of three Kings, and the lives of all the Israelites, and much other auxiliar Forces present; and by means so improbable to carnal wisdom, as filling that dry valley with water, to relieve them and their cattle, when neither wind should be perceived, nor rain seen; that such an occasion as Musick should come within the verge of Causes thereto subordinate, Could be by no other means, or others appointment but his, who by his unlimited power produceth the most difficult effects by what causes he pleaseth. He created this Universe of nothing praeexistent; Dixit & facta sunt. He appointed that Naamans leprosie should be cleansed by his washing seven times in Jordan; and that Jericho's deathfull Waters should be cured by casting into them a new cruse of salt; and that the Widows Oyl should increase in the barrel, by pouring out so long as there was a vessel to receive it; and that Israel should march into the Red Sea, to be saved; that it might be to them a type of Baptism, wherein the water toucheth the body, to cleanse body and soul from all sin, by the blood of Jesus Christ. 1 Joh. 1.7. He commanded Moses to smite the Rock at Horeb with his Rod, that the waters might flow, to relieve the numerous Hoste of Israel, with their herds and flocks: He, to supply the want of Wine at the Cana marriage, commanded the Waiters to fill their water-pots with water to the brim. It were too long to pursue the Examples of this kind, which demonstrate God the most free Agent, not bound to the use of any second causes, but producing what he will, how he will. Fear not whatever work or estate God assigns thee to; He is Almighty who provides for his Agents: Fear not thy abilities; but remember that thou art in Gods service, who by a sufficient measure will enable thee to that which he enjoyneth thee. Were it thine own work, thou mightest reasonably require probable and apparent means to warrant thy undertakings; but if God command thee, thy sufficiencie shall be of him; so that thou shall not need to say, with Gideon,--O my Lord, wherewith shall I save Israel? Behold, my family is poor in Manasseh, and I am the least in my fathers house: if God be with thee, who can be against thee? If there remained but wounded men, they should be enabled to do that which God will have done. Thou needest not say, as Moses, Send, I pray thee, by the hand of him whom thou wilt send: While he looked not toward the power of God, but his own abilities, diffident of the success, he said,--O my Lord, I am not eloquent--I am slow of speech: and Isaiah said, Wo is me, for I am undone, because I am a man of polluted lips; and Jeremy--Ah, Lord God, behold, I cannot speak, for I am a child: they remembred not, at present, that God could touch their lips, to enable whom, and to what he will. In Gods service, to forget his power is so dangerous, that Jonah will rather be miching toward Tarshish, then obey Gods command at Nineve: And good Ananias willing to decline the service, will say, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy Saints at Jerusalem.
But to come to the intended point, we must necessarily consider the coherence of these words with the rest of this History. Moab, after the death of Ahab, rebelled; Jehoram his Son implored aid against them, of Jehoshaphat King of Judah; he consented; they agree to fetch a compass by the Desert of Edom; in seven days march they are distressed by want of water; they are enforced to consult the Lord by Elisha: they come to meet him; he sharply greeteth Jehoram; What have I to do with thee? get thee to the Prophets of thy Father, and to the Prophets of thy Mother. At his further presentation of their imminent destruction, the Prophet subjoyneth, As the Lord of Hosts liveth, before whom I stand, surely were it not that I regard the presence of Jehoshaphat the King of Judah, I would not look toward thee, nor see thee: But now bring me a minstrel; and it came to pass, when the minstrel played, that the hand of the Lord came upon him, and he said; that is, he prophesied.
It may here be demanded, Why Elisha, so great a Prophet of the Lord, being to prophesie, to so serious and so grave a work, would seem to require so youthfull an expedient, as a minstrel, and musick? Concerning which, here are several probable Reasons assigned.
1. It was necessary to lift up and comfort his mind, at present perplexed and troubled with bitterness of sudden passion, as indignation at the presence of the idolatrous Jehoram, so also for sorrow and sympathy in the distress of good Jehoshapat, and the people of Israel with him, in so evident a danger of destruction by the Enemies of God.
2. To revive and chear up his drooping spirit, that it might be enabled and fitted to prophesie; as also the hearts of the people to attend unto the same.
3. This Musician was probably a Levite, skilfull in singing Psalms and Hymns to Gods glory, and Services thereto appertinent, and playing them on Lute, Harp, Organ, Viol, or other like Instrument. So had the people of God, in those days, solemn Musick at their Sacrifices, to quicken them up to prayer and praises of God. So at that great Solemnity, 2 Chron. 7.6. performed by Solomon--The Priests waited on their offices, the Levites also with instruments of musick of the Lord, which David the king had made to praise the Lord, because his mercy endureth for ever; and the Priests sounded trumpets before them. So Hezekiah set the Levites in the house of the Lord, with Cymbals, with Psalteries and Harps, according to the commandement of David--for so was the commandement of the Lord by his Prophets. Now David having excellent skill in Divine Poetry and solemn Musick, knowing that both of these were accommodate and necessary for the service and House of God, left behind him many Psalms, and, as some learned Divines observe, was the Author of joyning Melody to Poesie in publick Prayer, for the raising up of mens hearts to attention (without which, he well knew, all our service would be but vain and fruitless) and also by vocal and instrumental musick, for the sweetning of humane affections towards God, that men might delight in the Worship of God. So the Church of Christ still reteineth these as an ornament in Gods service, and for an help to Devotion.
4.Thus the Prophets used to have Musick, when they were to prophesie. So Saul, according to the word of Samuel, met a company of Prophets with a Psaltery, and a Tabret, and a Pipe, and an Harp before them, and they prophesied, and Saul also prophesied with them. From all which it may appear, That
Musick (where it can be conveniently had) is of excellent use in relation to prophecy, and other parts of Gods service, publick or private.
Now Musick is either Instrumental, Vocal, or mixt of both. Concerning the First and Third of these, some School-men make scruple; Whether Instruments with Voices, in the Churches, and Gods publick service under the Gospel, be lawfull? Concerning vocal Musick, or singing Psalms, no sober Christian makes any question; we say, both Vocal and Instrumental are here, respectively, both lawfull and convenient: For which we offer these following Reasons.
1. Musick (whether vocal or mixed) is scientia benè modulandi; or, of high and low sounds a due proportionable disposition: Therefore they who acknowledge the one still necessary and lawfull, ought to shew cause, why the other is not; or in what part of Holy Scripture, that which all know was once commanded as necessary, is since forbidden, as no longer necessary, or unlawfull.
2. Mixt Musick is as an ancient in Gods service as the Temple, or Tabernacle, (whose Structure, Rites, and Services the Lord himself appointed) yea, before the Ceremonial Law was given, Moses and the people of God did sing unto him; and Miriam the Prophetess--took a timbrel in her hand, and all the women went out after her with timbrels, answering them--Sing ye to the Lord. Mixed Musick therefore, in Gods service and praises, seems not a branch of the Ceremonial Law, that it should thence be concluded abrogated, but, as subordinate to Gods service, and fitting mens minds thereto, of the ever-binding Moral Law, which saith in the Gospel, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God; wherein are comprehended all things thereto subordinate, and necessary for Gods service, as is all that which conduceth to edification in Christ.
3. As Musick was appointed by God, to praise him in his Tabernacle and Temple, to which Christ in the days of his flesh often resorted; so was it used by Christ, as at his last Supper, and institution of that great Mystery appointed by him to represent and shew his death and passion till he come; wherein Christ sung his pare with his Apostles, (for we may not think, that he sat by them onely to keep time, or as an Auditor.) Add hereto, that even under the Gospel, Musick is expresly commanded, for edification in Christ, and therefore must still be lawfull and necessary: of which the Apostle saith, Ephes. 5.19, 20--Be filled with the spirit; speaking to your selves in psalms and hymns, and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord: giving thanks always for all things unto God, and the father, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. So Colos. 3.16. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another, in psalm, and hymns, and spiritual songs: (this could be no Jewish ceremony;) How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine--Let all things be done unto edifying.
4. Musick hath such natural proportion with the reasonable soul, that some defined the soul it self by harmony. It is remarkable, that Solomon, the wisest of meer men, and the worlds greatest Philosopher, made a thousand and five Songs, wherein he excelled all the children of the East-countrey--as in that Song of Songs, Solomon in deep mysteries excelled Solomon. And David, the man after Gods own heart, and sweet Singer of Israel, composed many Psalms to divers musical Instruments, as may appear in the Titles of many of his Psalms, which have ever been in use in the Church of Christ, as to the matter and substance, though not always to the same manner and circumstances, which the Exigents and times of persecution could not at all times permit the Christian Churches not then constituted, as may appear in Plinies Epistle unto Trajan, reporting the custome of the Christians, then used to sing Hymnos antelucanos Christo.
5. The Soul much depending on the temper of the Body, it must needs be, that according to the right composure or distemper thereof, a man is more or less apt to Divine Offices; which the subtil Adversary well knowing, that he may hinder us from right performance of our Duties in the service of God, complieth with all second Causes, to discompose us by sundry passions and perturbations of mind, in whose storms we cannot steadily and duely perform our parts. Now solemn Musick, by reason of its native affinity with the Soul, excellently accommodates it, by calming and appeasing the boisterous storms and distempers thereof with a pleasing allay, gently drawing it to a sweet mediocrity, carrying it up for a time above it self in an holy rapture and extasie, as S. Paul into the third Heaven, to the contemplation of unutterable things: It excellently composeth distempered minds, which S. Basil and S. Ambrose seem to note, in Pythagoras commanding the Musicians Dorion canere, which changing the mood, S. Ambrose interpreteth by molliora canere. It draws out tears of Devotion, as Augustine confesseth of himself,--I often wept in the hymns and songs of thy sweet-sounding Church; the affections of piety thereby enflamed, my tears ran down. I could easily be perswaded, that those monstrous vails of morals, not contemptible, related hereto, concerning the strange effects of Terpander's Musick, so famous among the ancients; and Amphion's drawing stones together, to build the Walls of Thebes, by his Musick; and Orpheus, charming wilde beasts and pale ghosts with his Harp; Arion carried on a Dolphins back; Herodutus, &c. Doubtless melody doth admirably compose the distracted mind, which it formeth to holy attention, as hath been seen in the sudden lucid intervals, and abundant tears of mad-men, hearkening a while to the Churches solemn Chores. Neither need this seem strange to any that reade Saul's History,--When the evil spirit came upon Saul, David took an harp, and played with his hand, and Saul was refreshed and eased, for the evil spirit departed from him. Not that Musick of it self hath such vertue to drive away soul spirits; but it came thus to pass then, by Gods providence, forelaying all the consequences hereof relating to David: yet I doubt not, but that Satan (making use of all advantages to destroy men, by hindering them in holy Duties (as Preaching, Hearing, Praying, and Thanksgiving, and praising God) hath less power to hurt, by how much more the Body and Soul of Man are freed from turbulent obstructions thereto. Nor can I wonder that solemn Musick should put moody Saul's Devil to flight, when. I consider,
1. That the same now drives so many Congregation-men from our Church.
2. That all that which tendeth to edification and praise of God, is destructive to Satan's Kingdom, whose Fortifications (like the Walls of the beleaguered Jericho) fall down at the sounding of the sacred Trumpets, whereof he saith, Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgressions, and the house of Jacob their sins. Indeed when Christ's seventy Disciples preached the Gospel, Satan like lightning fell from Heaven.
3. Considering the Tempters amusical disposition, whose usual descant is impious discord, and setting division amongst Brethren, and his whole endeavour to afflict mans soul, and to barr it from all comfortable help to devotion, and assistance in the service of God; therefore although he hath sometimes been transformed into an Angel of Light, yet we reade not that he did ever sing, or play upon any musical Instrument, except in the obscene lips of Catamites and impious Libertines; and once in the Pope's Chore, when (as Cyprian de Valera, a grave Author, writeth) he got into the Organ, and roared out so prodigious a Diapason, that it made the earth tremble under them.
6. The Custome of God's Church (in S. Paul's Logick, thus disputing, 1 Cor. 11.16.--We have no such custome, neither the Churches of God) is very considerable. It was S. Ambrose Rule,
To whatsoever Church (of Christ) ye shall come, observe the Custom thereof, if you will neither take, nor give offence. S. Augustine gives the Reason; In those things concerning which Divine Scripture determineth nothing certain, the Custom of Gods people, or determinations of our Ancestors, are to be held for a Law. Therefore, we must beware, lest by the storm of contention (about matters less then Fundamental) the calm or serenity of Charity be clouded.
Now concerning the Custom of Gods Church herein, David saith, They have seen thy goings, O God, even the goings of my God, my King, in the sanctuary. The singers went before, the players on instruments followed after; among them were the damsels playing with timbrels, bless ye God in the congregations. Therefore did Moses write that Song, Deut. 31.19, 30. for Israel and their posterities. And David composing many Psalms, appointed singers and players on instruments in the sanctuary, to prophesie with harp, with psalteries, and with cymbals.
Whether the Heavenly Orbs (in their regular motions, the certain measures of time) do make a melodious harmony, I leave to others disputes; sure I am, that the Heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament sheweth his handy-work; and that we reade of heavenly Citharists and Harpers, and of holy Angels and happy Spirits, singing their Hallelujahs and praises to Christ, Rev. 5.8, &c. Rev. 14.2, 3. & 15.2, 3. For the better understanding whereof, consider with me, what he, who had a divine rapt into heaven, saith, Hebr. 10.1. The Law had a shadow of good things to come. Now you know, that the shadow holdeth a proportion to the body that casts it. And again he saith, Hebr. 8.5. that the Priests that offer gifts according to the Law, serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things,--what things? 'tis presently expressed--as Moses was admonished of God, when he was about to make the Tabernacle--See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
These Reasons laid down, I hope will, in this controversie, satisfie the moderate: If we cannot gain others to our party, who, like that Gadaren Herd, are violently carried with spirits of contention unto that desperate precipice of Schism, it shall not be my labour lost, if it shall confirm our own: Could we bring an hundred Arguments more from Heaven, yet some would dislike Church-Musick.
1. Because, say they, we cannot edifie by it, 'tis a scandal to us, irksom and odious also. I answer, So doth the Feverish Palate distaste sweet and wholsom meats: where must the Cure be made? in some contrary season of those Meats, or the disaffected Palate? The sacred Word of God, (unto holy David, sweeter then honey) is a savour of death to death unto the wicked; they find no comfort in it, but are embittered thereby to the death of those who preach it to them. I hate him, said Ahab, he prophesieth no good, but evil to me. That sweet Oyntment should kill Vultures and Scarabes (which delight in carrion and filthy stench) it must needs be in the indisposition of the receivers; for good savours are very pleasant and comfortable to others
2. They are offended because we sing some Prayers. And are not many parts of David's Psalms excellent Forms of Petitions to God? and did not he, and the Church of God, with, and after him, in every Age since, sing the same? Was it then lawfull and expedient to sing holy Elegies, solemn Prayers, and Doxologies to God? If so, how cometh it since to be unlawfull?
3. They say, they cannot understand what is sung. On whom is their not understanding to be charged? Aquinas, after S. Augustine, answereth hereto--
All the affections of our souls, as they are divers, have their proper Moods in the voice and singing, by whose secret familiarity they are stirred up: so in hearers, among whom, though some understand not those things which are sung (by others) yet they understand why they are sung, to wit, to the praise of God; and this (saith he) is enough to stir up devotion.
Give me leave to doubt, whether if these pretenders to so much knowledge were presently taken up into Paradise, as S. Paul was, and admitted to hear those ineffable words there sounding, they would understand, &c. though, &c. all to the praise of God, &c.
4. They say, Musick is abused to superstition, and corruption of good manners. I answer, so have the best things been; meat, drink, and the spiritual food of souls, Gods holy Word and Sacraments not excepted. Can you reasonably think, that impious abuse by some, concludes a necessary abolition of an holy use of these, to all others? I say, of things so excellently serving to our necessary use in the worship and praise of God, keying and tuning of holy Chores, so much approved by the Prophets, Apostles, and Martyrs, the wisest and best of the sons of men; as also by the continual practice of heavenly Chores of Saints and holy Angels; above all, by Jesus Christ, daily hearing therewith their Prayers, and accepting the same as sweet odours of incense? what, is this lawfull in Heaven, but not in Christ's Church on earth? May we not, in imitation of such patterns of sanctity, with sacred musick, heighten our dull minds to speak, hear, pray; and,in the praises of God, as it were, tune at the door, until we be admitted into the full Chore in the Church triumphant? Doth not our Saviour Christ teach us to say, and do we not accordingly say--Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven? Must we pray to be enabled to do that which (however enabled) we may not do? Let the most bitter-spirited Antagonist ingenuously say, Is not the whole Book of Psalms (so often avowed, cited, and used by Christ) Sepher-Tehillim, a Book of Praises, composed for the Churches use unto the end of time? or think you that this so excellent a part of Scripture was written, onely to inform us what the Saints of God did before us, but not what we also must do by their example? As for the abuse of Musick, we abominate it; but affirm, that holy melody is accommodate to every estate and condition; the Apostle saying without exception, Is any merry? let him sing. There may here be a fault in defect: for some, like those curious Solar instruments, make sweet musick, and bless the Lord, so long as the Sun of prosperity shines on them; but no sooner is that clouded, but they are silent, and then Musick is to them as--the Lords Song in a strange land: But David, in his affliction, called to remembrance his song in the night: And Paul and Silas, laden with stripes, and in strict durance, did sing and pray at midnight, with admirable effect, to their own comfort and others. It is above all dispute, that we have as much need to have our minds and affections calmed and lifted up from worldly thoughts, deviations, and distractions in God's service now, as his Israel had of old time, when he prescribed them both singing and instrumental Musick, to prepare and fit them to his Worship; and why we may not now use the means thereto expedient and formally commanded, I challenge all gain-sayers to shew us any good Reason.
So come I to the Principal Cause of the specified Effect,--The hand of the Lord came upon him; that is, the power and influence of Gods Spirit; which Metonymical manner of speaking is frequent in Scripture: as Ezek. 3.22. The hand of the Lord was there upon me. Judg. 6.34. The Spirit of the Lord came upon Gideon. So on Jephtah; so on Sampson: So Elisha said to Elijah, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me; that is, of Gods Spirit, wherewith thou hast been assisted. The sum of all amounteth to thus much;
The Spirit of the Lord enableth his servants to prophesie: Holy men of God spake, as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. His hand and power is still upon them in their Ministration, as 'tis written--The spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets. And our Saviour Christ saith to his Apostles,--I am with you alwayes, even unto the end of the world: and--He that heareth you, heareth me.
And now the time admonisheth me, that the remainder of this Discourse be like a natural motion, swiftest near the end: I must tell you therefore, that the Apostle makes our Application, 1 Thes. 5. 20. Despise not prophesyings. He gave the reason before, 1 Thes. 4. 8. He that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit: and--He that despiseth you, despiseth me.
Let the Grecians, in their profane levity, account Preaching of the Gospel foolishness, and the Pharisees reject the counsel of God against themselves; they shall once (though too late) know, who now neglect so great means of salvation, undervaluing this Heavenly Treasure, because we have it in earthen vessels, that it is the power of God to salvation, to every one that believeth.
Consider therefore, before it be too late, That he that despised Moses Law, died without mercy, under two or three witnesses; of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God--and hath done despite to the Spirit of Grace? Which secure sinners do, when they undervalue the Word and Ordinance of God. If thou so do, there will be, in thine own Conscience, not onely two or three, but a thousand unavoidable Witnesses, which can neither be withdrawn by favour, nor silenced by reward: If thou hast been a careless or negligent Hearer, yet seriously repent thee, and henceforth more diligently frequent holy Assemblies, and more attentively hear the Word of God: It is as the Eastern Star, to lead Wise-men to Christ; as 'tis also written--Psal. 107.43. Who so is wise, and will observe those things, even they shall understand the loving kindness of the Lord.
O Lord God, who hast the Key of David, which opens, and none shutteth, open our Hearts and Affections; lift up these everlasting doors, that the King of Glory may come in, and cause us to understand thy loving kindness in Christ: breathe into our divided parts the Spirit of Life and Peace, that we may live to Thee in this world, and live with Thee in the world to come, through Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour. AMEN.
FINIS.
http://justus.anglican.org/resources/pc/music/reading.html
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That is all.....
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I believe music can touch our hearts. I have sat in Church at times my heart so filled with despair that the Preacher could not reach me, but then a person would sing a song, that seemed to reach into my very soul, I would cry and start praying to God.
I don't think it is wrong to listen to songs that are not Christian within reasons. We have songs that touch as because of memories. My hubby sang "I love how you love me", by Bobby Vinton on our honeymoon. This by a man who doesn't even sing in Church because he hates his singing voice. But, because he loved me so much, he copied the words down and sang it to me. Of course I enjoy hearing that song.
But music does touch us so we need to be careful what songs we do listen to.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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Gramajo320
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Favorminded, Danny 458, David,
Amen! God bless each of you!
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Gramajo320
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yahsway
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I do not think that Christian music turns us To or Away from the cross.
What does turn people to the cross and Yeshua is the school master, the Ten Commandments, which shows us that we are all sinners and in need of a savior.
I do not understand why the church today wants to "adopt" the things of the world. A lot of the music today tickels the ears and glorifies the flesh. Many people I know want to be "pumped" up for Jesus. They want to "feel" good. But is all about us? Is it all about our feelings?Or better yet, is it even "all about the music?"
I see kids in different churches, dressing like gang members, doing a song and dance before the Lord and I think to myself, is this right?
Watch some Carmen videos. He appeals to every musical sect out there. But are we as believers suppose to appease the masses or Yeshua?
Many churches of today are trying to appease and appeal to the masses. But should this be? Who is the one we should be pleasing to? And how should we be pleasing to Him. Through our dress (modesty) through our actions, and yes even through the way we praise Him. And who are the MANY that Yeshua spoke of that says Lord, Lord look what we did in your name and He says depart from me I never knew you?
I personally believe it is how we present our form of worship to Him. Is it holy in dress, is it holy in words, is it pure in heart? Does it lift Him up or ourselves up? Someone once asked me how do we reach the youth of today for Christ? My only answer was tell them the TRUTH, not watered down or appealing to their flesh. Tell them without holiness, no man shall see the kingdom of God. Music has become the Main theme in some churches today. Bigger systems, lighting, ectt.. just a form of entertainment.
A girl once told me that if the music wasnt good at a particular assembly, she was not going. She said she had to go where the music was good enough for her. My thought was, wonder what she would do if she was called of God to go into another country to teach the gospel and there wasnt nothing more than their own voices to lift up praise to Him?
I am very aware of all the different Christian music of today. I was worshipp leader for almost 10 years in the Assembly of God church. But I can honestly tell you that when the Spirit of God moved during a worshipp service I lead, it was usually when no music was playing and all were singing from their heart in unity. No entertainment, just hearts and voices lifted up in total adoration to Him.
I have to agree with BecauseHeLives. I do not think his views are extreme at all. Its not about "taking back what the devil stole from us" Yeshua did that already. The DEVIL doesnt own anything I want. Just my 2 cents. Cindy
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becauseHElives
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quote:
Extreme views like these are best kept out of the public arena. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and have every right to believe and say what you want... But keep this to yourself or you will be turning many people away from the cross.
Yeshua had extreme views like these; if He had kept them to Himself they would not have crucified Him.
Yeshua said few will enter eternal life, that the path is narrow
Danny, you, favorminded and others say many will enter eternal life
It is not a tough decision for me, I will believe Yeshua
Rock music, long hair on men, women dressed immodestly these things are of their father the devil, and will lead all that follow such to an eternal separation from Yahweh, the Father of Life.
There is music that glorifies Yahweh, it can be fast or slow
But music that conforms to this world, and causes those that listen to it to conform to this world is antichrist.
In the last days the scripture tells us people would not endure sound doctrine.
I know favorminded preaches an easy believism gospel, I guess you do to Danny.
Just remember as you preach that trash, Yeshua said
Matthew 7
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
If you don’t understand the broad path that today’s music has taken, may Yahweh have mercy on you that you may repent before it is to late.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Favor Minded
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AMEN Danny!!
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Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father
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danny458
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Extreme views like these are best kept out of the public arena. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and have every right to believe and say what you want... But keep this to yourself or you will be turning many people away from the cross.
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MySavingGrace
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i dont think they did it to be satanic. satanic music with fast beats etc was done on purpose. if that makes sense. what i mean is these people aren't doing it to summon spirits/demons etc, just be more modern/dancable.
you oculd be right but i find it hard to belive its done on purpose etc. i think the differnece is if done on purpose, and if it is it probably is done in a way to be harmful.
even if a christian artist is in it for the money, that doesnt mean they are purposely summing up satnic things. I personally don't like the contemporary songs as much as old celtic/gaelic typse. i like modern music for secular stuff, but when i listen to music about faith, i go back to the celtic/classical music. I like rap and pop but noot so much with music for my faith. Don't know why, I just do.
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http://crawfordpeace.nfshost.com/forum
Support the mother who lost her son protest the war
http://crawfordpeace.nfshost.com/
here are my comments, I am UHaventDoneNothin
http://crawfordpeace.nfshost.com/node/121
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KnowHim
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Frimpy,
Good point and $.50 worth.
It is good that God can look on the inside and know the ones that love Him. The ones that are really out there that are trying to serve God with their music will be pleasing to God.
There are a lot of Christian music groups out there that are in it for the money, just like there are a lot of preacher out there that are in it for the money.
Also there are a lot of Christian music groups out there whos lives are a reflection of Jesus. And a lot of preachers out there who's live are a reflection of Jesus. They still have that sweet heart love for Jesus and they give Him all they have.
Read the bible, know what the real thing looks like and you will not be decieved. Get a sweet hearth love for Jesus!
Revelation 2:4 (KJV)
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
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Frimpy
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I'm not trying to be facetious, but ALL music has a beat. Most rock music carries a simple 4/4 beat, as does all mainstream music. Other kinds of music, such as jazz and classical get into more complicated beats, but they still have a beat.
As for saying that Christian artists on a label from Nashville arent legitimate because Al Gore is a senator from there is a huge stretch. Tennessee may have a liberal senator, but its governor, Phil Bredesen is a Republican. Tennessee is also the buckle of the bible belt. I know that Nashville is home to all the country music labels, and the christian labels are in most cases off shoots from the country labels, but that doesnt necessarily mean that the artists are not legitimate Christians. If they just wanted the money, I believe they would be recording secular music. There is alot more money in that.
Let me just say that I understand the point of your post, but at the same time, I think to say that all Christian rock is of the devil isnt true. Some of the Christian artists offer a watered down message, yes, but the people who are their target audience might not respond well to lyrics with a strong message. I look at them as doing the right thing. Once the people hear a positive message, as opposed to the sex, gloom and doom that they are used to, and it sinks in, these people will look for answers on their own.
Just my $.50 worth.
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Backslidden Christian, ready to come back. I'm so glad that God forgives.
Yahoo ID: billselby9773 Come say hi if you like.
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becauseHElives
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Please read, please
MUSIC
God made our bodies with a natural rhythm of our heartbeat - Music that follows this order, FIRST, the RHYTHM; SECOND, the MELODY (THE WORDS); THIRD, the BEAT, this is Yahweh's order for music.
Much music have these three items out of sequence by putting the beat first. This upsets the natural rhythm in our being, as God created it. Rock and roll does this, and most all music, including "Christian" music. One sure sign is the BEAT of the drum (usually starting out the song) is just out there in front most of the time. It is real obvious. Ever wonder why drums are such a part of satan worship services? They "drum up" the demons. The witchdoctors in Africa and other places "drum up" the demons. (When was the last time you said you were going to "drum up" business or something else?) Next time you are listening to "Christian" music, listen for the BEAT. The words might be about Jesus, but if the BEAT is in the wrong place, the enemy may be involved. Find this hard to believe? Do some DELIVERANCE on it first.
CHRISTIAN ROCK
BY: JACQUIE M. JONES
"CHRISTIAN ROCK IS OF GOD"
WE HEAR CHRISTIANS SAY
"TOUCH NOT GOD'S ANOINTED
DON'T STAND IN THEIR WAY".
"JUDGE NOT THAT YE BE JUDGED"
THEY ONCE AGAIN PROCLAIM
"THEY'RE CALLED TO THIS MINISTRY THEY'RE GETTING SOULS SAVED!"
EVERY TIME I HEAR THIS
OH, HOW MY HEART GRIEVES
TO SEE CHRISTIANS SO SEDUCED
SO SWAYED - SO DECEIVED
LET'S OPEN THE BIBLE
LET'S SEE WHAT GOD HAS TO SAY
ABOUT THE ABOMINATION OF 'ROCK'
THAT'S LABELED 'CHRISTIAN' TODAY
WE ARE INDEED TO JUDGE
LET'S LEVEE THE SCORE
JUST OPEN YOUR WORD
TO JOHN 7:24
LEVITICUS 19:15,
MATTHEW 7:1 TO 5
INSTRUCTS US TO JUDGE ANOTHER'S MINISTRY OR LIFE
IT IS PREACHING NOT MUSIC TO CHRIST SOULS ARE WON
LET'S FLIP OVER SOME PAGES TO 1 CORINTHIANS 1:21
WHEN EXPOSING THIS JUNK ROCK SUPPORTERS GET ANGRY
WELL THAT'S NOT OF GOD SEE JAMES 1 and VERSE 20
THEY LOOK and SOUND LIKE THE WORLD
CHRISTIANS ARE SUPPOSED TO TRANSFORM
THEY'RE THE ENEMIES OF GOD
JAMES 4 and VERSE 4
THE MENS HAIR IS LIKE WOMENS
WEAR MAKE UP AND THINK IT'S FINE
WHAT ABOUT 1 CORINTHIANS 11:14
AND 1 CORINTHIANS 6 and VERSE 9
"WE MUST LOOK THIS WAY FOR THE UNSAVED TO RELATE"
WELL, 1 THESSALONIANS 5:22
IS NOT OPEN TO DEBATE
THEIR STAGE LIVES ARE A SHAM
THEIR PRIVATE LIVES ARE NO BETTER
2 TIMOTHY 3:1 TO 6
DESCRIBES THEM TO THE LETTER
"WE DON'T REALLY WORSHIP THEM"
ALL THE SUPPORTERS WILL AGREE
BUT, THEY BUY ALL THE RECORDS and POSTERS
CONTRARY TO EXODUS 20 and VERSE 3
"WELL WE'VE PRAYED ABOUT THE MUSIC
AND NOT CONVICTED AT ANY TIME"
GOD WILL TELL YOU JUST WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR
ACCORDING TO EZEKIEL 14:1 TO 5
BE NOT CONFORMED TO THIS WORLD
SAYS ROMANS 12:2
IF YOU SAY YOU'RE A CHRISTIAN
GOD IS TALKING TO YOU
THEY SAY THEIR WORKS ARE GOOD
THEY'RE HELPING THE WORLD AND THE KIDS
GOD DOESN'T NEED CHRISTIAN RESUMES
SEE ISAIAH 64 and VERSE 6
THE BASIS OF CHRISTIAN ROCK IS AS WICKED AS CAN BE
IT IS REBELLION AND WITCHCRAFT
SEE 1 SAMUEL 15:23
THEIR LYRICS AREN'T EVEN GODLY
THEY'VE BEEN SEDUCED BY THE DEVIL
"FOR GOD IS NOT MOCKED"
GALATIANS 6 and VERSE 7
SOME HAVE EVEN ADMITTED
"WE'RE TRYING SECULAR THIS TIME"
THEY'VE LEFT OUT JESUS COMPLETELY
SEE ISAIAH 3 and VERSE 9
CHRISTIANS ARE NEW CREATURES CLEANSED, FORGIVEN AND CLEAN
GET OUT OF THAT JUNK
2 CORINTHIANS 5:17
THE WAGES OF SIN
READ ROMANS 6:23
REPENT FOR THIS TRASH
AND LET JESUS SET YOU FREE
MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS FOLLOW 'ROCK'
BUT THE NARROW GATE LEADS TO HEAVEN
MILLIONS TRAMPLE THE BROAD ROAD
VERSES 13 and 14 OF MATTHEW 7
The following is excerpted from the important book, Occult Invasion: The Subtle Seduction of the World and Church
by Dave Hunt, Harvest House Publishers, Eugene, Oregon 97402;
In Greek mythology the arts were under the direction of the nine daughters of Zeus by Mnemosyne. These nymphs, or lower deities, also known as muses, inspired writers and artists. The Muse Euterpe was the inspirer of lyric poetry; the Muse Terpsichore inspired music and dancing. Johannes Brahms felt that at times when composing he was "in tune with the Infinite."
Although he believed that his inspiration came from God, the fact that he admitted having to be "in a semitrance condition... [with] the conscious mind... in temporary abeyance,"'[Willis Harman and Howard Rheingold, Higher Creativity (Jeremy P. Tarcher, 1984), pp. 46-47; cited in Knlimo, Channeling, p. 314.] as with a spirit medium, betrays another source. God does not inspire trance mediums. Tchaikovsky confessed that under similar inspiration he "behaved like a madman." [P.E. Vernon, ed., Creativity Selected Readings (Penguin Books, 1970), p. 57.]
Richard Strauss was sure that at least some of the music he wrote was "dictated" to him by "Omnipotent Entities" not of this earth. [Harman and Rheingold, Higher Creativity, p. 46.] The great opera Madame Butterfly, Giacomo Puccini was convinced, was dictated to him "by God." [Ibid.] Gustav Mahler claimed that he was compelled by other powers to compose what he hadn't chosen to write.
George Gershwin testified that Rhapsody in Blue came to him suddenly, that he heard and saw as though on paper "the complete construction of the Rhapsody, from beginning to end." Of his hit song "The Blizzard," country-western composer Harlan Howard said his pencil just kept on writing, surprising him as it went, and he wondered, "Did some great songwriter in the sky use me as a medium?" [Klimo, Channeling, pp. 314-15.] Operetta composer Rudolf Friml said:
"I sit down at the piano, and I put my hands on the piano. And I let the spirit guide me! No, I never do the music. I never compose it; oh no, no!
"I am a tool. I am nothing. I am being used. It comes from someone, a spirit perhaps, using me." [Ibid.]
We can only conclude that, just as they all believed, some entity or entities not of this world have guided these composers. But who are these entities? And what about Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland and other charismatic leaders who claim that the Holy Spirit inspires them to speak forth some prophecy that proves to be false? And what of the claims that Christ has even appeared to some of them?
Would Jesus really appear to Yonggi Cho in a red fireman's uniform, or to Oral Roberts in a form 900 feet tall, as these men claim? And could the countless apparitions around the world really be the Mary who gave birth to Jesus, when they speak forth so many lies and continually contradict Scripture? Who or what are these beings? What is their purpose? The question of the identity and purpose of these entities requires a careful answer.
Identifying the Modern "Muse"
Music has had a key role in the occult as far back as history records. The pulse-beat of drums and rattles is vital in voodoo and most shamanism, to which rock music is closely related. "Christian rock groups" mimic the beat that shamans have long used to call up demons. Ray Manzarek, keyboard player for the rock group The Doors, explains the relationship between shamanism and modern rock:
"When the Siberian shaman gets ready to go into his trance, all the villagers get together... and play whatever instruments they have to send him off [into trance and possession]....
"It was the same way with The Doors when we played in concert... I think that our drug experience let us get into it... [the trance state] quicker....
"It was like Jim [Morrison] was an electric shaman and we were the electric shaman's band, pounding away behind him... pounding and pounding, and little by little it would take him over....
"Sometimes he was just incredible. Just amazing. And the audience felt it, too!" [Jerry Hopkins and Daniel Sugerman, No One Here Gets Out Alive (Warner Books, 1980), pp. 158-60.]
Many rock stars have been involved in the occult and admit to a mysterious source of inspiration. John Lennon told of mystical experiences as a young teenager: "I used to literally trance out into alpha... seeing these hallucinatory images of my face changing, becoming cosmic and complete."
[The Playboy Interviews with John Lennon and Yoko Ono (Berkeley, 1982), p. 169.] Of his songwriting Lennon said, "It's like being possessed: like a psychic or a medium." [Ibid., p. 203] Much credit for fomenting rebellion and turning millions of youth against God and the Bible belongs to the many rock stars beginning with Elvis Presley. The Beatles' own press agent, Derek Taylor, confessed:
"They're completely anti-Christ. I mean, I am anti-Christ as well, but they're so anti-Christ they shock me..." [Saturday Evening Post, August 6, 1964.]
According to Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones, "The Stones' songs came spontaneously like an inspiration at a seance. The tunes arrived 'en masse' as if the Stones as songwriters were only a willing and open medium."
[Rolling Stone, May 5, 1977, p. 55.] Of the Beatles Yoko Ono has said, "They were like mediums. They weren't conscious of all they were saying, but it was coming through them." [Playboy Interviews, p. 106.] Of the inspiration process Marc Storace, vocalist with the heavy-metal band Krokus, told Circus magazine:
"You can't describe it except to say it's like a mysterious energy that comes from the metaphysical plane and into my body. It's almost like being a medium...." [Circus, January 31, 1984, p. 70.]
"Little Richard" said, "I was directed and commanded by another power. The power of darkness... that a lot of people don't believe exists. The power of the Devil. Satan." [Charles White, The Life and Times of Little Richard (Harmony Books, 1984), p. 206.] Jim Morrison called the spirits that at times possessed him "The Lords," and wrote a book of poetry about them.
[James Douglas Morrison, the Lords and New Creatures (Simon &Schuster, 1970).] Folk rock artist Joni Mitchell's creativity came from her spirit guide, "Art." Nothing could detain her when he "called." [Time, December 16, 1974, p. 39.]
Contemporary musicians offer the same consistent testimony regarding inspiration by otherworldly entities that we find among the most famous composers from the past. Today's musicians, however, admit that much of their inspiration comes from an evil source. Why should we doubt their testimony? David Lee Roth, who wrote "Running with the Devil" and called himself "toastmaster for the immoral majority," admitted that the goal in the world of rock was to conjure up evil spirits and surrender to them:
"I'm gonna abandon my spirit to them, which is actually what I attempt to do. You work yourself into that state and you fall in supplication of the demon gods..." [Rock, April 1984, p. 30.]
Superstar Jimi Hendrix was not so eager to be possessed but seemed rather to have been a victim. Called "rock's greatest guitarist' and known as the Voodoo Chile of the Aquarian Age, Hendrix "believed he was possessed by some spirit," according to Alan Douglas. His former girlfriend, Fayne Pridgon, has said:
"He used to always talk about some devil or something was in him, you know, and he didn't have any control over it, he didn't know what made him act the way he acted... and songs.. just came out ......... He was so tormented and just torn apart . . and he used to talk about ...having...somebody... drive this demon out of him." [Sound track from film Jimi Hendrix, interview with Fayne Pridgon (side 4).]
Steven Halpern, one of the best-known New Age composers, testifies, "I started recording what I received in trance or altered states.... I ended up being guided." [Ibid.]
This type of spirit guidance is widespread. In Chapter 1 we referred to the nuclear scientist who was taught advanced concepts by spirit beings. We noted that Chester Carlson, inventor of the Xerox photocopying process, received guidance for his invention from the spirit world. [Chester Carlson, New Frontiers Center Newsleter, Fall/Winter 1986, p. 9.] Medical scientist Andrija Puharich, holder of more than 50 patents, gave his opinion about these strange inspirations:
"I am personally convinced that superior beings from other spaces and other times have initiated a renewed dialogue with humanity. While I do not doubt [their existence] ... I do not know what their goals are with respect to humankind." [Andrija Puharich, Uri: A Journal of the Mystery of Uri Geller (New York, 1975), p. 213.]
DRUMS - These are a big no, no because of the ORIGIN of the drum. Look it up in a good Encyclopedia for the roots. Drums are used to DRUM UP DEMONS.
The following came from http://radicalpilgrim.da.ru/
Innocence and simplicity!?
Hey, do you remember the Christian (contemporary) music scene back there in the 70's? The dynamic testimony of Barry Maguire. Jamie Owens "Growing Pains", written through brokeness and experience. Sonlight singing, "Jesus is the answer for the world today, above Him there's no other, Jesus is the way!" Phil Keaggy's surrendering and waiting for the Lord to raise him up if it was His will. Not to forget the rich, colourful, expressive sound of Koinonia. And may we never forget the late Keith Green's uncompromising stand for the Gospel (message, not music) and his vision of not selling the gospel. Remember his articles .... "The selling of Jesus", "What's wrong with the Gospel", "Unity at what price", and so on?
We followed Keith's convictions and his abandonment (in spirit that is) of the trappings of LA to his moving to the sticks of Texas, where he set up Last Days Ministry to escape the rubbish of Westernized, commercialized, "Christian" culture, and minister truth.
Music and literature; meaty, challenging, and cutting ... free of charge (would you believe!?) or whatever you could afford. When just as he made a public whole hearted stand against apostasy, ecumenicalism, and the Church of Rome, did Keith die an unduly death in a plane crash under unresolved circumstances. It was not long after his departing did we receive a letter from Last Days how they had decided to chuck out Keith's controversial exposé's on the Church of Rome (along with his vision may I add) reassuring us that Keith would have done the same had he lived. Would this redefined image of respectability been the will of Keith who previously said in regards to his Catholic Chronicles:
LDs Newsletter Jan-Mar 1981 we want to repeat again what is on all of our hearts here at Last Days. We really, really love Catholics! It is our only motive for publishing this series of articles. We realize that many cannot help but see this as other than an "attack" on their church. Many have said, "Why are you picking on my religion?"
But God knows our hearts, we will only do what he commands. People have written saying, "We know the Holy Spirit has told you to write these articles!" While others have said just as assuredly, "We know God has definitely not told you to do this!" So who are we to believe? We are held accountable to do that which we believe in our hearts God has told us to do.
Page 26. An introduction to the Catholic Chronicles ....family: It is truly from a heart of love that we publish these articles - a love for Catholics ... a love for their souls!
And who are we to believe? Keith before he died, or someone else apparently speaking on his behalf after he died?
Let you decide!
Steve Camp "Nails" CCM
http://www.av1611.org/crock/scamp.html (used by permission)
CCM artist, Steve Camp, "nailed" the Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) with his "A Call for "Reformation in the Contemporary Christian Music Industry" and his "107 Theses". Following the pattern of Martin Luther as Luther nailed his 95 these onto the door at Wittenberg in 1517, Camp "nailed" his "107 Theses" to CCM. Steve Camp mailed out 1,500 copies of his "Call for Reformation - 107 Theses" on October 31, 1997 - Reformation Day to 1,500 people involved in CCM.
Camp readily admits in his early CCM career of compromise and fleshly lusts:
"Early in my own musical journey I wrote songs that neither represented good music or precise theology. My motives were vitiated; my actions were not godly; and my lips were unclean. The thirst for prominence and position made my heart prideful, judgmental and callused."
Steve Camp says of Satan's infiltration of CCM:
"But beloved, THE SERPENTINE FOE of compromise has invaded the camp through years of specious living, skewed doctrine and most recently secular ownership of Christian music ministries. . . The Apostle Paul warns "it takes only a little leaven to leaven the whole lump." (1 Corinthians 5:6) When sin is tolerated ultimately permeates and corrupts the entire church. What is pure today will inevitably be polluted tomorrow if we do not "purge out the old leaven. . . "
(Ibid. 5:7) In the past several years, there has been a not-so-subtle drifting away from Christocentric music to an anthropocentric music. Sadly, this has resulted in various visible manifestations of spiritual sedition-where currently, the CCMI finds itself on a slippery slope sliding away at accelerated speeds from the Savior, the Scriptures and the church."
"Contemporary Christian Music originally began unashamedly declaring Jesus Christ as Lord. Within a few years His name was replaced by several generic titles filtering out the name of God ultimately to the non-specific cognomen, "Love." This led to a multitude of pseudonyms: "The Man Upstairs"; "My Higher Power"; "Our Family Values Expert" ad nauseam...ad infinitum. This Biblical illiteracy I've coined as theological ebonics-Biblical language diminished to cultural unintelligible chatter affirmed as profound, acceptable spiritual truth. Os Guinness is "spot on" when saying, "[we have seen a change] from an emphasis on 'serving God', to an emphasis on 'serving the self' in serving God." The object of faith is no longer Christ, but our self-esteem; the goal of faith is no longer holiness, but our happiness; and the source of faith is no longer the Scriptures, but our experience. Christian music currently reflects this. We are producing a generation of people that "feel" their God, but do not know their God."
While we do not agree with Brother Camp's "hanging on" to the rock music roots of CCM, we certainly agree with many of his "107 Theses". Here's a few of Camp's "107 Theses":
6.We fail to glorify Him when we praise the servant through awards and accolades rather than exalt the master. "I was but a pen in god’s hand and what praise is due a pen?" (Baxter) God will not share His glory with another. (Psalm 115:1; Isaiah 42:8)
7.We fail to glorify Him when we speak of God out of our own vain imaginings or recreate Him in our own image; instead of honoring Him by how He has revealed Himself through His holy Word. (Psalm 50:21; 1 Corinthians 2:13-16)
31.For if in our worship we pervert the truth about God. If in our music we distort His doctrine, we distort a right view of Him. If in our song we misrepresent the Scriptures, we misrepresent the Savior. And if in our ministries we twist His truth, we dishonor His character. (2 Timothy 2:15) (DTTM: ditto, Carman-Resurrection Rap, dcTalk - Jesus Freak, Bride-Scarecrow Messiah, et. Al.)
32.Failure here is costly-for it is tantamount to breaking the third commandment: "do not take the name of the Lord God in vain." (Exodus 20:7)
41.Christian music, originally called Jesus Music, once fearlessly sang clearly about the gospel. Now it yodels of a Christ-less, watered-down, pabulum-based, positive alternative, aura-fluff, cream of wheat, mush-kind-of-syrupy, God-as-my-girlfriend kind of thing.
45.Christian music stands separate from the world’s music for by definition it is Christ-centered music. Even the style is not neutral and music in and of itself is not amoral, but it is "the incarnation of the message." (Horton) Both must honor and bring glory to the Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Chronicles 15:16)
46.Therefore, when Christian artists today take the old song of the world, dress it up, modify it and say that it now represents the person of Jesus Christ, a Christian message or describes the character of God, they fortuitously assault the gospel and diminish the gift that has been entrusted to them. This is inappropriate at best and sacrilegious at worst. We cannot pour new wine into old wineskins. (Psalm 137; Mark 2:22) (DTTM: ditto: dcTalk, Amy Grant, Point of Grace, Rez Band, Johnny Cash, Pat Boone, Holy Soldier, Jars of Clay, Mark Farner, MxPx, Petra, etc.)
74.The CCMI has committed spiritual adultery in joining itself with the wayward world in trying to forward the message of the gospel. This has and will prove to be fatal for Gospel music as we know it today. (Deuteronomy 32:22-24; Psalm 1; Jeremiah 7:5-8)
81.Satan’s number one assault on the church is to infiltrate with error. He doesn’t want to fight the church-he wants to join it. (John 8:44; 2 Corinthians 11:12-15; 1 Timothy 4:1)
82.Undicerning believers think it a profound ministry strategy to join forces with unregenerate people in forwarding the gospel. Unwittingly, they harness Jesus Christ, the Worthy One, with Belial or Satan, the worthless one, in an unholy alliance-the very essence of being unequally yoked. (2 Corinthians 6:15)
83."Ephraim is joined to idols. Let him alone." (Hosea 4:17)
It's a BIG blessing to see somebody in CCM with any spiritual discernment and any spiritual "convictions"! The vast majority of CCM supporters have no spiritual discernment, and even less convictions.
We heartily "commend" Brother Camp and say, "Amen, amen and amen, Brother Camp — Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet... Isaiah 58:1"!
Although I don't want to be drawn into a political debate, here's more food for thought confirming the mitigating effect in this industry, and the cost of putting Jesus first:
Email received - Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000
Christian Artist Allies With Gore Campaign
August 18, 2000
Carr News Service
Los Angeles, CA - Minutes after watching Al Gore finish his presidential nomination speech in front of a star-studded audience, Christian singing artist Phil Driscoll stepped on stage to hug the Democratic Presidential candidate. A few moments later, Driscoll began to lead the audience, with his signature trumpet in hand, in a rendition of "God Bless America" much to the joy and admiration of on looking Al Gore and his family.
This appearance would come as a shock to most Bible-believers. Why would a Christian artist sing at a Liberal Democrat function? Why would a Christian be associated with a party that vows to "make America a better place to live for those who have been persecuted like the gay/lesbians and to make it easier for a woman to get an abortion". Could this be a case of public payback support for future considerations once Gore is elected? The answer goes all the way to the top of the "Christian" music industry.
In the early 1980's, Christian music was a small, unprofitable business that catered to only a very few of the millions of music listeners. Most of the new recordings were largely ignored by the mass media and music buyers.
Late in the decade, that began to change. With new artists coming out with a sound that compared to the secular side and Christian music pillars Amy Grant and Michael W. Smith trying to forge secular careers, the music genre began to flourish.
By the early 1990's, Christian CD sales were becoming comparable to those of secular music. This is where the "roots of evil" began to grow.
Not wanting to be left out of any profitable ventures, the major record companies began to buy out every Christian-owned label. Time-Warner bought out Sparrow while Virgin Records purchased Forefront Records. Soon, there was not a Christian record label that was still owned by Christians.
The way business was done began to change. Christian singing artist Steve Camp, in a speech given in 1997 said that he had "been effectively black-balled from having any music published." "When they took over, all projects were cancelled until they reviewed them and made the changes that they wanted. The new owners wanted total control of the image, lyrics, sound, and everything else that had to do with the music. They wanted restrictions on how many times the name of 'Jesus' was to be used in a song if at all. The artist lost all control over the music. They wanted us to conform to be like the secular musicians in appearance and style because that sells more records."
Camp, and others like David Meece, fought against the changes and their projects were never completed. "Mine was almost finished," sighed Meece. "I only had one or two more songs to add and it was ready."
David continued to tell how the changes had not only affected that project but his past work as well. "I wouldn't produce the music they wanted and I wouldn't change what God had laid on my heart to sing about. I decided to wait out my contract and schedule free-will offering concerts wherever I could. After doing these concerts for awhile, I began to run low on my stock of CDs so I went back to the label to buy more. I was told that I would not be able to buy any more and no more would be made. I was shocked. I fought with them for over a year and finally they told me to come in and pick up what inventory was left."
"Once I got there, they led me to a barrel in a warehouse. It was just about full of ashes. I asked what these were. The label representative said that this was my old recordings as well as my masters.
They decided to burn the whole lot," as Meece looks to the floor in sadness.
"Once the stores sell out, that's all that there will be of my music. When it's gone, it's gone."
There is an ugly trend in today's Christian music that has been slow but deliberate. There are now as many types of Christian music as there is secular. Sadly, you most often can't tell the difference between the secular and the "Christian". Beautiful praises to God and songs about the power of Jesus have been replaced with driving beats and screaming Godless (as in NO reference to God or Jesus) lyrics. Peter Furler, leader of the Newsboys, a popular band with the Christian youth, has been quoted as saying, "we don't need to sing about Jesus all of the time. We are a music group and there are other messages we want to sing about."
The Christian music labels are based in Nashville, Tennessee. Al Gore was a Senator from that same state and still has a residence there.
Seem too much like a conspiracy theory to be real? Maybe, but more is done to control the population from the highest levels than is led to be believed. Why not control what the Christians listen to and slowly wean them from the truth found in the scriptures?
Contact your local Christian radio station(s) and ask them to not play any more of Phil Driscoll's music to let it be known that he was not speaking for those who truly call upon the name of Jesus and believe that homosexuality and abortion are against God's commandments.
The following was received from Cutting Edge Ministries:
1. "They Sold Their Souls For Rock-n-Roll Video". Absolutely the hardest-hitting expose' on the true nature of Rock-n-Roll, Pop Music, and Country Music we have ever seen! Pastor Schimmel was a minor Rock-n-Roll star who had visions of future riches and glory before Jesus Christ got hold of his heart! This video takes you backstage, showing the true nature and face of Rock stars from the 1950's through today. Even Brittney Spears, 'N SYNC, Ricky Martin, Garth Brooks, and Eminem are included, just to mention a few. If you are fighting with your children or your grandchildren about Rock, this video will give you the ammunition you need to convince your loved ones of the Satanic nature of Rock-n-Roll.
We at Cutting Edge were completely limp as we reviewed this video. Our Webmaster was thoroughly into Rock-n-Roll, even after he had been saved, talking himself into the lie that he could listen to this "music" and not be affected; going to a Liberal church contributed to this delusion. As Jim said:
"Here are some of my impressions of this video and what brought me to tears. This video ties many things together and shows how Aleister Crowley, black magik witchcraft and the new age movement are a calculated plan to steal our children from us and to turn us away from Christianity or as in my case make us useless to the cause of Christ. A member of the group Jefferson Aiplane whose albums I once owned said "Our music is intended to broaden the generation gap and alienate children from their parents". And "We get them while they are young and bend their minds".
"Two things shocked me about this video. First is that how the musician’s admit boldly to being Satanists, to being demon possessed and to being part of this Satanic plan. Secondly, you will see parents look with approval as their young children wriggle their little bodies and sing lyrics about sex as they heard it from the Spice Girls and Britney Spears. I am talking about 6 and 7 year old little girls. Then I saw Ozzy Osborne painted like a demon and heard his bold Satanic lyrics on the video; the images of "George Bush and Ozzy" at the White House came back to me and I cringed."
Since we have just come through Christmas, Jim was burdened by the fact that many parents, even Christian, have probably given their loved ones some of this Rock music as Christmas gifts. Jim said:
"After seeing this video you may discover that you have given the gift of Black Magik Satanist music to a young child or grandchild this Christmas and didn’t even know it. You may have made a terrible mistake in the past with your music purchases and gifts but you don’t ever need to again. My heart breaks for our children and for the parents who unknowingly provide the very instrument of their destruction. I taught a class on Rock music to senior citizens at a church once. You would think that this group would not need to hear this message would you? Two of the grandmothers had just given the gift of rock music that glorified sex to their granddaughters and one was getting ready to make a purchase that she now knew was wrong."
This video excellently demonstrates not only what Rock-n-Roll is and how it is so Satanic, but it also links the effects this music has on the children and the society of which we are all a part. You will also see how Rock-n-Roll is preparing the masses of youngsters to be the future army of Antichrist, just as Cutting Edge has been saying for 10 years! You will see how the tremendous rise in sexual promiscuity taught by Rock has resulted in the hardening of our children and adults, and in a dramatic increase in abortion. I have never seen such convincing graphics on abortion in my life, and it brought the tears cascading down; if you or a loved one is undecided on abortion, this video will change their minds forever.
Finally, the last 30 minutes of this video pictorially show the Biblical view of Hell far better than anything I have ever seen. We Christians love to say we are "saved" but we really have forgotten what it is we are saved from! After hearing numerous Rock stars sing to Lord Satan and sing to the glories of Hell, to the obvious delight of tens of thousands of fans, this video graphically and powerfully shows what the Bible describes as Hell. This videos proves the old adage, "A picture is worth 1,000 words" to be absolutely correct. After viewing this video, you may conclude that these pictures are worth 10,000 words!
This video is as powerful as it is, because it was written by an insider who is now Born Again. If you like the hard-hitting style of Cutting Edge, you will absolutely love this beautifully produced, 2-Tape, 4 hour video. We consider this video to be the most informative, most powerful, and most potentially soul-saving of any we have ever seen or carried. VHS Format, not PAL. [http://cuttingedge.org/detail.cfm?ID=424]
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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