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Topic: Pastors Reveal Major Influencers on Churches- Christ is not in this list
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Godbehere
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Member # 4187
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posted
Laurie,
Thanks. I've always known we were called fundamentalists, but other than taking the bible literally, I wasn't sure what that meant, and where the charismatic part fit in. My baptist church has some of the hand raising and clapping, but I've never been exposed to tongues or anyone claiming to prophesy.
Carl
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Carl
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face:now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Posts: 50 | From: FL | Registered: Dec 2004
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
Just a note, the Baptist are coming out of that somber type of service. The last 3 I have been apart of where not afraid to clap their hands, stand and raise their hands.
The Baptist Church we attend now has two services, one that is blended and one that is very contempary. Because of husband we attend the blended. He prefers the "quiet" worship. But the blended has both so we both can be happy.
Our Pastor does not think that Holy Spirit Gifts have passed away. He feels that you should let the Holy Spirit move through you the way the Holy Spirit wants to move. To open your heart and give the Holy Spirit freedom to move.
I think it could be that because we are living in the end times that God is begining to move in many Churches that before where less open to change.
I like the Calvary Church on the net but the one in our area, I did not care for. We went three weeks and no one talked to us. The last service the preacher spend most of the Bible study telling us why we did not want to go to his Church. We got the hint.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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LaurieFL
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Member # 3794
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posted
Typically the difference between a charismatic and a fundamentalist is that while both groups claim to take the entire book of the Bible literally and at face value, charismatics believe in the current practice of certain gifts of the Holy Spirit (tongues, prophecy) and are often more outwardly expressive in their worship (hands raised, clapping, some dancing perhaps).
Fundamentalists, typically a label associated with the Baptist denomination, but not exclusive to that one, tend to be more somber in their worship and usually do not agree that the gifts of prohpecy or tongues are for today's current world.
Both groups can take their views to the extremes, which is why I like Calvary Chapel churches which are a nice middle ground between the two.
Posts: 700 | Registered: Aug 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
I do not find any definition on the Barna site for these terms. It seems that this is not a "group" distinction that they use in their serveys. So, I would then think that Charismatic means what charismatic means in the dictionary. I honestly have no other clue???
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Godbehere
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Member # 4187
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
“Evangelicals” are a subset of born again Christians in Barna surveys. In addition to meeting the born again criteria, evangelicals also meet seven other conditions. Those include saying their faith is very important in their life today; contending that they have a personal responsibility to share their religious beliefs about Christ with non-Christians; stating that Satan exists; maintaining that eternal salvation is possible only through grace, not works; asserting that Jesus Christ lived a sinless life on earth; saying that the Bible is totally accurate in all it teaches; and describing God as the all-knowing, all-powerful, perfect deity who created the universe and still rules it today. Further, respondents were not asked to describe themselves as “evangelical.” Being classified as “evangelical” is not dependent upon any church or denominational affiliation or involvement.
HTHS,
Thanks for that post, it cleared me up on the difference as well. If you could explain to me what "charasmatic" and "fundamentalist" are, I would greatly appreciate it.
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Carl
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face:now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Posts: 50 | From: FL | Registered: Dec 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Maybe this will help Redkermit.
“Born again Christians” were defined in these surveys as people who said they have made “a personal commitment to Jesus Christ that is still important in their life today” and who also indicated they believe that when they die they will go to Heaven because they had confessed their sins and had accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. Respondents were not asked to describe themselves as “born again.” Being classified as “born again” is not dependent upon church or denominational affiliation or involvement.
“Evangelicals” are a subset of born again Christians in Barna surveys. In addition to meeting the born again criteria, evangelicals also meet seven other conditions. Those include saying their faith is very important in their life today; contending that they have a personal responsibility to share their religious beliefs about Christ with non-Christians; stating that Satan exists; maintaining that eternal salvation is possible only through grace, not works; asserting that Jesus Christ lived a sinless life on earth; saying that the Bible is totally accurate in all it teaches; and describing God as the all-knowing, all-powerful, perfect deity who created the universe and still rules it today. Further, respondents were not asked to describe themselves as “evangelical.” Being classified as “evangelical” is not dependent upon any church or denominational affiliation or involvement.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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redkermit
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Member # 4059
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posted
quote:
Evangelicals Head the List
Although evangelical Christians are only 7% of the nation’s adult population, evangelical leaders were three out of every five names (59%) listed by pastors as the greatest influence on churches. In contrast, only 6% of the top influencers were associated with mainline Protestant denominations and 5% were Catholic.
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but can someone please explain the difference between being an "evangelical" and a "protestant"?
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Posts: 604 | From: Michigan | Registered: Nov 2004
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
Eeek! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) Now That is Scary!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Pastors Reveal Major Influencers on Churches
January 14, 2005
http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=178
(Ventura, CA) - Billy Graham may not be as active or as publicly visible as he once was, but he remains the most trusted spokesman for the Christian faith in the U.S. His ministry peers also regard him as the person who has the greatest influence on American churches and church leaders. That is the assessment of a national sample of pastors of Protestant churches in a survey conducted by The Barna Group (Ventura, California). The survey also discovered that the ranking of the most influential and the most trusted spokespersons varied among different groups of pastors – with the exception of Mr. Graham topping both lists among every segment of the clergy.
Greatest Influence On Churches
The 614 Senior Pastors interviewed were asked to identify up to three individuals whom they believe have the greatest influence on churches and church leaders in the U.S. Pastors named more than 300 different individuals, but only 10 of those leaders were listed by 4% or more of the clergy. Billy Graham was chosen by 34% of the pastors, with Rick Warren (pastor of Saddleback Church and author of the multimillion-selling book, The Purpose-Driven Life) second with 26%. The only other individuals listed by at least 10% were President George Bush (14%) and radio broadcaster and family advocate James Dobson (11%).
Other influencers who were among the ten most frequently listed were Bill Hybels, pastor of Willow Creek Community Church (9%); Bishop T.D. Jakes of The Potter’s House (7%); author and motivational speaker John Maxwell (6%); researcher and author George Barna (5%); Pope John Paul II (5%); and author and speaker Max Lucado (4%).
Most Trusted Spokesperson
Billy Graham also led the pack as the most trusted spokesperson for Christianity, garnering the support of six out of ten pastors (58%). James Dobson was a distant second, with 20% naming him, followed by the 14% who identified Rick Warren. T.D. Jakes placed fourth (7%), followed by veteran pastors Charles Swindoll and Jerry Falwell, each at 6%; and by Bill Hybels and author and prison ministry pioneer Charles Colson (5%). Pastor D. James Kennedy, President Bush, broadcaster Pat Robertson, and author Max Lucado rounded out the top ten individuals, each mentioned by 4% of the clergy.
Evangelicals Head the List
Although evangelical Christians are only 7% of the nation’s adult population, evangelical leaders were three out of every five names (59%) listed by pastors as the greatest influence on churches. In contrast, only 6% of the top influencers were associated with mainline Protestant denominations and 5% were Catholic.
The analysis also found that an equal percentage of the influencers listed were from parachurch ministries (40%) and local churches (39%). One out of nine (11%) were political figures, 6% were educators and 4% were predominantly media ministers.
Among the most trusted spokespersons mentioned, evangelicals were again the dominant segment, representing three out of every five leaders mentioned (59%). Mainline Protestants were offered by 6% of the pastors interviewed and Catholics were named by 2%.
Occupationally, parachurch leaders were by far the most likely to be cited as trusted ambassadors of Christianity. Half of those listed (50%) serve through a parachurch ministry, compared to one-third (36%) who serve in a church, 6% who are educators, 5% in the media and 3% in the political realm.
Different Segments Prefer Different Leaders
Denominational background affected pastor’s choice of leaders who influence churches. For instance, pastors from mainline churches added Professor Martin Marty and newly-elected Methodist Bishop William Willimon to their list. Baptist pastors included two of their own – Jerry Falwell and Adrian Rogers – along with John MacArthur. In addition to Bishop Jakes, Pentecostal pastors included five other Pentecostals among the top-ten influencers. They included Bishop G.E. Patterson, evangelist-healer Benny Hinn, Pat Robertson, Bible teacher Joyce Meyer, and broadcaster Paul Crouch in their top ten.
Ethnicity was also a factor in people’s perspectives. Non-whites not only elevated Bishop Jakes from sixth place to third in the ranking, but also included five leaders who were not deemed to be as influential by white pastors. Those five were Bishop Patterson, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Bishop Eddie Long, and Paul Crouch.
Pastors who describe themselves as theologically liberal also provided a different understanding of who influences churches. Within their top-ten, they included three unique names: evangelist Franklin Graham, and pastors William Shaw and Rod Parsley.
Similarly, there were variances across categories in regard to the most trusted spokespersons. Pastors aligned with a mainline church identified Robert Schuller, Martin Marty, and Wil Willimon in their “top ten” list. Pastors associated with a Pentecostal congregation mentioned Patterson, Robertson, Kennedy, and John Hagee among their top-ten. Liberals added activist Jim Wallis, Bishop Patterson, and televangelist Kenneth Copeland to the mix.
The Findings Signal A New Era
Change comes slowly when related to the development of influence. However, the ranking of the most influential leaders affecting church life in America struck researcher George Barna as a demonstration of the shift in authority within the ranks of American church leaders.
“Billy Graham has been a consistent presence in the minds and hearts of church leaders and the public at-large for many years. However, many of the other leading influencers in the Christian Church are relative newcomers to such widespread impact. Names like Rick Warren, T.D. Jakes, Franklin Graham, John Maxwell, Joyce Meyer and Will Willimon would not have appeared on the list a decade ago. It is also interesting, though, how relatively few names – less than two dozen – show up on the two lists, across multiple segments of the pastoral community. That suggests that the influence of these leaders is both broad and deep.“
Barna noted that being deemed a trustworthy spokesperson for the Church seems to be fostered by longevity. A majority of the individuals on the spokesperson list are 60 or older. That is in contrast to the list of those who influence churches, which contains only a few men who are in their sixties or beyond. Also, parachurch individuals are much more likely to be among the greatest influencers of churches and church leaders than are pastors: eight of the ten highest-ranked church influencers are not exerting their influence from a pastorate.
The research also showed that pastors tend to value the leadership from the people who are most similar to themselves. “There was a noteworthy correlation between a pastor’s theological traditions and theological bent and that of the people chosen as the most influential,” Barna explained. “Nationally, just one of the top ten leaders influencing churches is charismatic, but charismatic pastors listed six Pentecostals among the top-ten influencers. Only two Baptists appear in the national top-ten list, but twice as many were listed in the top-ten by Baptist pastors. President Bush is the only mainline Protestant in the national top-ten, but mainline pastors included two others in their ranking. T.D. Jakes was the only black leader in the national top-ten, but African-American pastors have three black leaders in their top-ten.
“Pastors tend to list the people they know best and with whom they feel most comfortable, whether the individual has a national audience or not. It’s natural for pastors to assume that whoever influences them also influences other people to a similar degree. However, this research indicates otherwise.”
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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