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Topic: Televangelist paid $425k to quash homosex claim
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Niedziejkore
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Member # 2773
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posted
*shakes his head*
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Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.
Posts: 346 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2004
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Favor Minded
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I will end with this..
I have asked you repeatedly about your "Name" - You have NEVER opted to answer me til now.
In several threads I have asked, and NOT ONCE did you offer a response.
I will take you at your word that it is your name.
As for the "FACTS" -
The FACTS said Jesus was NOT King of the Jews, too -
The FACTS got him Crucified...
The FACTS said we were being invaded by Aliens...
Interesting how you take the News and believe it as law...
If the news printed that Satan was the Messiah, (Which it will someday do) would you also defend that?
Calling someone a nasty drag queen is neither Christian nor telling it like it is...It is the voice of immaturity
It is FAR from Christ like...
And his name was NOT Jim....
FM
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Niedziejkore
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Then you tell me the difference between what "judging" and "telling it like it is" is.
Oh, BTW... put that stuff back up that you said about me having to do something with that band... what was their name? And what are they about?
I do know what "allegedly" means
And I think we're getting off the point here: Paul Crouch PAID OFF a guy to KEEP HIM QUIET about his HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITIES.
I mean, how am I judging him? The facts speak for themselves, do they not? Should I repeat that?
Paul Crouch PAID OFF a guy to KEEP HIM QUIET about his HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITIES.
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Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.
Posts: 346 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2004
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Favor Minded
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quote:
You Said -
My take on the Crouches: they're just nucking futz! I mean, if the deal with Paul isn't weird enough, just look at his wife! She looks like a nasty drag queen! And that's pretty bad considering she's allegedy a woman.
And I'm the hypocrite...
hy·poc·ri·sy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h-pkr-s)
n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
from Greek hupokrisis, from hupokrnesthai, to play a part, pretend : hupo-, hypo- + krnesthai, to explain, middle voice of krnein, to decide, judge; see krei- in Indo-European Roots.]
\Hy*poc"ri*sy\ (h[i^]*p[o^]k"r[i^]*s[y^]), n.; pl. Hypocrisies (-s[i^]z). [OE. hypocrisie, ypocrisie, OF. hypocrisie, ypocrisie, F. hypocrisie, L. hypocrisis, fr. Gr. "ypo`krisis the playing a part on the stage, simulation, outward show, fr. "ypokr`nesqai to answer on the stage, to play a part; "ypo` under + kri`nein to decide; in the middle voice, to dispute, contend. See Hypo-, and Critic.] The act or practice of a hypocrite; a feigning to be what one is not, or to feel what one does not feel; a dissimulation, or a concealment of one's real character, disposition, or motives; especially, the assuming of false appearance of virtue or religion; a simulation of goodness.
Considering your need to condemn, put down, insinuate about his wife, your reverse letter swearing, and overall stand in judgement of them, I would say the definition does indeed fit someone who claims to be a Christian but does not act like one.
You consider your post "Christian" or Hypocritical?
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Niedziejkore
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way to go Favorminded, for continuing to epitomize hypocrisy.
And what are you talking about? I didn't take my name from anywhere... this is my last name.
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Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.
Posts: 346 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2004
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becauseHElives
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quote:
Then you can say "I publicly judged and made ignorant comments about Brother Crouch - But I cried too!" -
I made judgments on Paul Crouch.
I made a plain statement, "Pray for true repentance"
I did say that TBN has wasted much money with the worldly buildings and lavish set. I do believe it is a shame and a disgrace.
Benny Hinn one night said he never wore a pair of shoes twice. I am not wrong to judge that. That is wrong. I can not say he is going to hell, but I can say he does not love his neighbor.
The flesh, by definition I do not mean the actions of the flesh, but the enmity of the natural mind of man in opposition to the mind of Christ.
The flesh is ever resisting against the Spirit.
The Yahweh put His finger on something the flesh is in love with and watch people squirm.
This thread is not bout Christmas, but evidently the Lord must have hit a nerve in you.
Remember as Stephen stood and spoke to the Pharisees, they actually gnashed on Stephen with their teeth, before stoning him to death.
I am not religious, in fact I oppose religion with every breath.
But preaching Righteousness, right standing through the Blood of Yeshua and Holiness, separation from this world. That is not religion.
John was a voice crying in the wilderness, repent, the Kingdom is at hand.
Repentance is turning from any and everything against Yahweh’s Holy standard.
Let the thief steal no more, let the liar lie no more, and the list goes on, but John writes little children if you do sin you have an advocate Jesus The Righteous that makes intercession, if we confess our sin.
Have no other God’s before me, I think is the 3rd Commandment.
Christmas, it has pagan roots. That is enough for me to say it is not for me. And I will continue to stand against it. I do not say you or anyone is going to hell for taking part in it. But I have to say it displeases Yahweh to see His Son mixed with the pollution of this world.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Favor Minded
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Attempting to embellish your belief system with sensitivity does not do anything to edify you or the Father, or Jesus Christ.
Plainly put, you must follow after the things of God - Much of your preaching IS NOT what Jesus preached - Your saying that you will preach what he did is the sin of a lie - When did you EVER hear Jesus preach through condemnation and judgement of a brother? NEVER! No, he hung out with the sinners instead...
In your own words you admit to admonishment, yet you do not see anything anyone has said to you as such, or you say that yours is a higher standard.
Fundamentalism and legalism are not higher standards - They are for a select group of people who may or may not see Heaven.
You see, you are correct in your statements regaridng brokenness, and I am sure your testimony was indeed devastating, we all have one -
What I have to dismiss is your JW approach to things, and specifically the legalism associated with it - Referring falsely to Paganism without a true understanding if what that means is sin, pure and simple.
That is not Holy Spirit inspired, but rather the words of self righteousness and indignation.
I too am guilty of the same approaches, the same actions as of a Pharisee - As are all Humans.
You need to take a deep, hard look at your self proclaimed Higher Standard -
Your judgemental approach and condemnation are nothing short of PURE SIN and when you stand before the Almighty God you will have to account for it...
God DID intend for it to be fun...He DID intend for people to prosper - Prosperity in all forms is very biblical. The fundamentalist poor Christian stuff is not biblical at all.
You may think you are calling people to a higher standard, but what you are really doing is scaring them off - Putting them off with teachings that are inaccurate.
Your claims of weeping only serve to appeal to ones sensitivity and your own attempt at demonstrating your own heart of Jesus - That is no different that telling everyone how much you give at church or who to.
We are the body of Christ and we are to uphold his standards -
I am curious how many people at Christmas time you think you will convince of their salvation by telling them they are practicing a Pagan ritual?
I think I will stand in from of Wal Mart and tell the shoppers they are all going to Hell for practicing Paganism this year - Yeah, that'll go over big when Jesus asks you what you did...
And he IS going to ask...He IS going to ask how YOU took care of HIS bride.
That means with your time, your money, your talents and abilities, etc.
I am sure you believe your teachings to be spirit led - At least that is what you say but I would beseech you to study a little longer, learn a little more before you go out and preach the Gospel because the Lord has a few "admonishments" for you like STOP trying to tear down the Celebration of My Son's Birth!!
STOP trying to tear down others with your condemnation and words of Judgement - READ MY WORD! What does it say about gossips? WHAT does it say about MY CHURCH? WHAT DOES IT SAY about MY BRIDE? What does it SAY about Judgement? WHAT DOES IT SAY about fulfilling the Great Commission? And WHAT does it say about causing others to stumble?
When you have to account for your life, it will be intersting for you to tell God
Well, Gee, I thought Christmas was Paganism so I told everybody to quit doing it - And God asks you "And HOW MANY souls did you win in this way?" - That'll be a good conversation...
Then you can say "I publically judged and made ignorant comments about Brother Crouch - But I cried too!" -
I'd be careful with your self proclaimed Higher Standard - We are living in a sight and sound generation, a generation of Kids lost to dark forces that foolish speak like referring to Christmas as Paganism will do nothing more for those Kids that make them run far from you...
And Jesus said it is better to tie a brick around your neck and drown yourself than cause one of his kids to sin -
How much SINNING do you think that 12 year old will do after you tell him that his family traditions are Pagan rituals and he is going to Hell if he does not stop?
He is going to RUN FROM YOU, God, Jesus, and every other Pastor out there thanks to your false teachings....
That will be an interesting thing to explain to God come judgement day - When he asks you why you caused him to stumble, you can say - "Because I believed MINE was a higher Standard and refused admonition from others and refused to recognize the voice of the Holy Spirit in others" -
And the Lord will say "I never Knew You"
Favor Minded
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becauseHElives
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Amen, Endoxos
quote:
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Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Pray for true repentance for Paul Crouch.
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We should pray for him to repent if it's true (after all, we don't know if it's true or not), or to learn from his mistakes from paying false accusers off (if it is a false allegation).
quote:
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Pray for the wasted money and time on TBN, as they flaunt a lifestyle that is against everything in the New Testament.
Pray for the Church to get serious and stop playing games and entertaining people. Pray for the Church to get out of their diapers To Born Again, To Born Again, , its time to grow up.
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Not just on TBN, but within EVERYONE who calls themselves Christian. We all waste our money one way or another... we all buy useless things when that money could've been given to the poor.
And you're right, we should pray for the Church to get serious. It is said only 2% of all Christians regularly share their faith. We can't be sitting on the docks playing our fishing music waiting for the fish to hop onto land to listen to our music... fish have no natural desire to go onto land, no matter how much they're enticed. We have to get in the boats, and cast our nets.
To Born Again, from the time I was 13 years of age till I was 21 I was addicted to pornography. I molested 3 little girls. When I got saved I could not rest till in tears I went to each girl and begged their forgiveness. But that did not free them from the devastation I had brought to their life. I stand strong against easy believism, I make no apologies for it. If you are anyone else read legalism into my words, you need to check your heart. The message of Jesus, is a message that many will seek to enter but few will find the way that leads to eternal life.
The way of the cross for Jesus was death to self. The way for everyone that chooses to follow Him is exactly the same.
Not my will but the will of the Heavenly Father.
When I was 13, I was invited by a cousin to a RA Camp, that for those that do not know what it is , is a Baptist youth camp. I went for all the fun I was told I would have. But we were required to go every morning and evening to hear preaching. The last day of the camp, I fell under the conviction of the preaching I wept and made my way to the altar. There I was meet by a consular. Because of his stupidity of the workings of God (Yahweh) many lives were affected for the kingdom of darkness.
He had me fill out a card, and told me when I got home to talk to my mom and dad and my pastor. My mom and dad were heathens, did not know anything about God and I had no pastor. He sent me back to my seat. The conviction of the Spirit of Yahweh left me and when I got home Satan was there waiting for me. In public school at that time the young and older boys had PE together, there I was introduced to pornography. I could not buy it so I stole it from stores and from homes that I would find it in. Satan had me, because the Church was and is teaching lies to the people.
We are our brothers’ keepers.
We have had enough pity pat sermons and telling people it is OK everyone has to sin a little bit everyday.
If the Church will preach that Yahweh is not a buddy, and pal, but that He is the HOLY ONE OF Israel, The great I am that I am, that HE is to be feared with a reverent fear. We will have the kind of living the early Church had. Fear of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom. Wisdom produces lives that walk uprightly before Yahweh.
If I am preaching legalism, then Yahweh is a legalistic GOD.
How can one say I love GOD (Yahweh) whom they have not seen, and not love those that they are with on a daily basis.
I know what it is like to go to ??Church?? and look down at the ground to keep my mind off of impure thought. God this should not be the case.
We "The Church" are the standard by which Yahweh will judge this world.
We "The Church" are judged by Christ.
Jesus is returning for a spotless Bride, one that has kept herself from the pollution’s of this world. Those that have washed themselves in the BLOOD of Jesus.
Hear me when I say kept herself from this world, that’s our part, that is prayer and fasting. That seeking after Yahweh with all our hearts. That Obedience to the Scripture, that taking up your cross daily.
That is not identifying with this world in anyway as Yahweh grows us up in our most Holy faith. That proclaiming the Truth no matter what people think.
I am not perfect, but as the Apostle Paul said I am pressing forward, leaving behind those thing in the past. Wanting to be more like Jesus every day. Not being satisfied with yesterday experiences.
I can say before God I weep I crying everyday over this board. If I am lifting the standard to high for you, whoever you may be, I make no apology. Jesus said lift me up and I will draw all men to me. He is the standard.
Jesus said Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
The Gospel being preached in America, for the most part says everyone that has said the sinners prayer is going to heaven.
You all can lie to people if you want to, I will preach, the message Yeshua preached and His disciples preached.
Preaching the straight and narrow , if that is legalistic, so be it.
I see it as walking after the Spirit.
Favor Minded , Who did God use? David? Moses? Samson?
The fact of the matter is that Yahweh did use these men you named, but not until they were broken. Yahweh dealt with each of their sins and judged them severely for them. Yahweh will do no less for those He loves today.
Every son He loves He chastens, if not they are bastards.
When Jimmy Swaggart fell I wept,
when Jim Baker fell I wept ,
when others judged I wept because I know except for Yahweh Grace (His ability to keep me from the hour of temptation, that could have been me.
I am only secure as I follow Christ, no eternal security, except as I cling to the cross, and forsake this world in response to His Holy Spirit that is living in me.
He will never leave me, but don’t you think for a moment you can not walk away from this precious wonderful free gift purchased by the BLOOD of Yeshua.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Endoxos
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Pray for true repentance for Paul Crouch. ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
We should pray for him to repent if it's true (after all, we don't know if it's true or not), or to learn from his mistakes from paying false accusers off (if it is a false allegation).
quote:
Pray for the wasted money and time on TBN, as they flaunt a lifestyle that is against everything in the New Testament.
Pray for the Chuch to get serious and stop playing games and entertaining people. Pray for the Church to get out of their diaper, its time to grow up.
Not just on TBN, but within EVERYONE who calls themselves Christian. We all waste our money one way or another... we all buy useless things when that money could've been given to the poor.
And you're right, we should pray for the Church to get serious. It is said only 2% of all Christians regularly share their faith. We can't be sitting on the docks playing our fishing music waiting for the fish to hop onto land to listen to our music... fish have no natural desire to go onto land, no matter how much they're enticed. We have to get in the boats, and cast our nets.
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My signature is apisdn umop.
Posts: 362 | From: HELP! I'm stuck in a DOS window! | Registered: Mar 2004
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BORN AGAIN
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I first posted this under the Bible Topic about the Tattoo, but it is approriate here too, after what has been said above.
God bless everyone. BORN AGAIN
Dear Bro. BecauseHElives, I sometimes get the feeling of legalism when I read your posts, and if I'm not mistaken, there are a number of other Christians on this BBS who have expressed that you seem to have a somewhat legalistic approach to Christianity. Am I wrong about that?
Can flesh clean up flesh? "Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit," says the LORD, "these mountains shall be removed, I will build My temple in you."
Personally, I am very weary of the flesh; the flesh is tricky and sneaky and will speak altogether falsehood to me to save its behind. Flesh loves to be flesh, and I don't trust it for one second.
But you seem to think that flesh can clean up flesh, at least as individual pieces of flesh are "cleaned up by the Holy Spirit's Counsel to your spirit", and I can see that side of it, the Bible says to dress modestly, for instance, so let's do it already, Amen? That's probably what you are also saying.
But you are preaching removing all adornments, viewing a goatee for instance as an adornment.
"Would you like to see all American Church women in burkas?"
"And all American Church men in shirt and tie?"
"Where would you draw the line of decency for Church people?"
"Will we have dress police in Church?"
"What to you is a decent dress for a Church woman and a decent outfit for a Church man?"
How did you get to be this way, BecauseHElives? Would you like to say something about these things from your perspective? God bless. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) BORN AGAIN
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Favor Minded
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I must admit I am ashamed of some of you so called "Christians" who are so obviously standing in judgement, trusting with all your might in the news media, and on top of that, seizing the opportunity to SLAM these people who have done more for Jesus in a day than most of us have done in a life time.
Who did God use? David? Moses? Samson? Need I go on, or are you familiar enough with them to know the sins they were guilty of? Did not God use them mightily?
becausehelives - some of the most judemental comments I have ever heard, and I am sure you have no logs to remove out of your own eye????
It is awesome to see others like Endoxus, Ripp, Born Again, stick to heart of the issues and not enter into Gossip -
You need to repent right now for allowing yourself to enter into gossip - If you don't believe me, ask the Lord - He can show verse after verse -
Who did Jesus hang out with? Who did he see as valuable?
I am amazed that "mature" Christians would conduct themselves this way and allow themselves to enter into controversy, gossip, as though it were written in the Bible!
Do you know what the word Alleged means? And please show WHERE in the Bible it states we are better than them? Hmmmm? YOU CAN'T!
Do you know when you pass that panhandler on the street, you know the one, holding up a sign that says I need a Beer! or work for food or smile, God loves ya - Do you know that God loves them EQUALLY as he does YOU!!
Beware of self righteousness, heresay, gossip and controversy - The Word says it is a REAL PROBLEM when you entertain and participate in it!
Proverbs 16:28
A perverse man stirs up dissension, and a gossip separates close friends.
Proverbs 20:19
A gossip betrays a confidence; so avoid a man who talks too much.
Proverbs 26:20
Without wood a fire goes out; without gossip a quarrel dies down.
Proverbs 26:22
The words of a gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to a man's inmost parts.
Romans 1:29
They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
2 Corinthians 12:20
...I fear that there may be quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder.
1 Timothy 5:13
Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to.
1 Timothy 1:4
nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work–which is by faith.
1 Timothy 6:4
he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
You should pray for your brothers and sisters in Christ - Pray for Gods will...NOT sieze your opportunity to engage in wicked activities -
A little white lie or Murder - It IS ALL THE SAME to God!
Favor Minded
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Favor Minded
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Pray for becausehelives to get a better understanding of what it means to not be judgemental...
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becauseHElives
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Pray for true repentance for Paul Crouch.
Pray for the wasted money and time on TBN, as they flaunt a lifestyle that is against everything in the New Testament.
Pray for the Chuch to get serious and stop playing games and entertaining people. Pray for the Church to get out of their diaper, its time to grow up.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Endoxos
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...by all means, save some.
Though I do not care for their outward appearance, the sets all in gold, and the approval of those who blatantly teach things that are against the Bible, they *have* reached out to many. Whether they preach Christ out of selfish gain, whether they preach Him to one-up Pat Robertson, or whether they preach Him for the sake of expanding God's Kingdom... it doesn't matter.
At least Christ is preached.
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My signature is apisdn umop.
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BORN AGAIN
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She is certainly a bit "wild" looking by my own standards, but aren't her looks reflective of the kinds of styles used in the South among people her age "back then"?
BORN AGAIN ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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Niedziejkore
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My take on the Crouches: they're just nucking futz! I mean, if the deal with Paul isn't weird enough, just look at his wife! She looks like a nasty drag queen! And that's pretty bad considering she's allegedy a woman.
Not to mention this, among other tidbits.
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Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.
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Ripp
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Thanks for that post Betty, I didn't realize they had said all of those things. Satan does hit harder when you are visible and doing God's work. TBN has been very successfull and I'm sure the entire Crouch family is a target of Satan. It's so important to have daily prayer and all the more so for those doing that kind of work. Let us pray for the Crouch family as well as those who are doing God's work on television and radio. How important is putting on the armor of God for them?!
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Favor Minded
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Thank you TexasGrandma and Israel!!
Betty - I thnak you for the words on the music too. I too listen to it often. I just wish I could find some more - Still looking for that Christmas song of Rays - Wish I knew the title of it...
I hope you all know that I was not saying anything to anyone specific - Just that these days especially this type of thing will happen more and more.
It always happens to the most prominent too.
Our job is to recognize what God wants us to do - Pray for his will to be done, His message to be proclaimed, His outreach, etc.
Think about this - The AntiChrist is going to need one big network, and his desired primary audience will be first all Non Christians - This will be easy now that the One World TV station exists in NBC Universal (They can broadcast to ALL the known world simultaneoulsy as of May 2004) then he will want to target the Most Prevalent of "Christian" networks - He will want to control their Tv stations too.
FM
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Israel
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Favor Minded, I meant ![[Kiss]](graemlins/Kiss.gif) ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Marilyn
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Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; they shall prosper that love thee.
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Israel
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Your right Favor Minded, Thanks:Kiss:
Marilyn
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Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; they shall prosper that love thee.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I have been doing so more thinking. Surprise, Surprise!
But, if Bro. Crouch is innocent, I do believe he will have to answer to God for paying that money to that guy. That money was sent in by people for the money to be used for the Glory of God and not to buy someone off. My mother is on a fixed income like me and she is a suporter of TBN.
If he is guilty, I believe he should resign his position and spend his time in counseling with a Christian doctor to find out why he gave into that kind of sexual sin.
Bro. Favor. I love your Rapture music and listen to it every day. It is a great source of comfort to me.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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Favor Minded
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Proverbs 11:13
A gossip betrays a confidence, but a trustworthy man keeps a secret.
Proverbs 16:28
A perverse man stirs up dissension, and a gossip separates close friends.
Proverbs 18:8
The words of a gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to a man's inmost parts.
Proverbs 20:19
A gossip betrays a confidence; so avoid a man who talks too much.
Proverbs 26:20
Without wood a fire goes out; without gossip a quarrel dies down.
Proverbs 26:22
The words of a gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to a man's inmost parts.
Romans 1:29
They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
2 Corinthians 12:20
For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder.
1 Timothy 5:13
Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to.
3 John 1:10
So if I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, gossiping maliciously about us. Not satisfied with that, he refuses to welcome the brothers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.
1 Timothy 1:4
nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work–which is by faith.
1 Timothy 6:4
he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
We must be cautious and gaurd our thoughts -
Pray for our Brothers and Sisters. It is not ours to judge or to know - Only God can do that.
Pray for their safety and Gods will in their lives while tugging on the log in your own eye...
Favor Minded
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Israel
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Member # 3254
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I just read what the L.A. Times said about this whatever you want to call it with Paul Crouch. I don't know if Paul did it or not ![[Confused]](confused.gif) but why did he(Paul) pay that guy??? If he didn't do it then he has nothing to worry about, because Greater is He that is in us then he that is in the world!!!! It just seems funny that Paul would pay somebody just to keep quiet, If God be for us, then WHO CAN BE AGAINST US!!!!!! He should of just told the truth, rather he did or didn't do it, if he lied then God will deal with him, if he didn't lie then he has nothing to fear!! It just seems that Paul has something to hide, you always do when you pay someone off. Why do we as people think that God is so small that He can't take care of a situation like this, I mean I have been there, thinking that the world is bigger than God, but Thank You Jesus, YOU are BIGGER than life ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif) I for one don't think that you need to sit in gold chairs to please the Lord, after all Jesus and His deciples sat on the ground, are better than they, even with modern techo things around us. I mean a plain old simple chair will do the same thing as a gold chair, just like a $500 car will get you where your going just like a $50,000 one will. Sooner or later no matter what it is, except human beings, will ALL WIND UP IN THE JUNK PILE ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) I know that the house I live in will one day be gone, as with the car I drive, but I don't need a car that is $50,000 or a house that is $100,000, I don't need to keep up with the Jones's, I just need to be like Jesus Christ, the Author and Finisher of my Faith!!
Marilyn
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Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; they shall prosper that love thee.
Posts: 97 | From: Indiana | Registered: Apr 2004
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
I hope it turns out that Paul Couch is innocent. I don't usually watch his show, but his ministry does alot of people, good. Whether he is guilty or innocent, he needs our prayers.
The devil seeks to destroy all of us but he takes great pleasure in going after someone who is in a position to reach more people for God. I guess that should be warning for us to pray for all ministers and their families, especially one in a position to reach more people because the devil is going to be seeking to attack them the most.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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Niedziejkore
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Member # 2773
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posted
Televangelist Paul Crouch Attempts to Keep Accuser Quiet
By William Lobdell Times Staff Writer
Televangelist Paul Crouch, founder of the world's largest Christian broadcasting network, has waged a fierce legal battle to prevent a former employee from publicizing allegations that he and Crouch had a sexual encounter eight years ago.
Crouch, 70, is the president of Trinity Broadcasting Network, based in Orange County, whose Christian programming reaches millions of viewers around the world via satellite, cable and broadcast stations.
The source of the allegations against him is Enoch Lonnie Ford, who met Crouch at a TBN-affiliated drug treatment center in 1991 and later went to work for the ministry.
After Ford threatened to sue TBN in 1998, claiming that he had been unjustly fired, Crouch reached a $425,000 settlement with him. In return, Ford agreed, among other things, not to discuss his claim about a sexual encounter with the TV preacher.
But in the last year, Ford has threatened to go public with his story, prompting a flurry of legal maneuvers — conducted in closed court hearings, sealed pleadings and private arbitration.
In court papers, Crouch has denied the allegations, and ministry officials have described Ford — who has a history of drug problems and has served time for a sex offense — as a liar and an extortionist.
At stake are the public image of one of the world's most successful televangelists and, potentially, the fortunes of the broadcasting empire that Crouch and his wife, Jan, built over the last 31 years.
TBN and Crouch went on the legal offensive after they learned that Ford had written a book manuscript that included an account of the alleged sexual encounter.
In a dramatic flourish, Ford had appeared at a TBN broadcast studio in Costa Mesa, minutes before the start of a "Praise-a-thon" fundraiser, and, without comment, handed Crouch a copy of the manuscript
Ford's lawyer later told ministry officials that they could keep the work out of public view by buying the rights. After some discussion, he suggested that $10 million might be a reasonable price.
While negotiations continued, Crouch sued to enforce the 1998 secrecy agreement and obtained a restraining order barring Ford from seeking a publisher for his book.
Orange County Superior Court Judge John M. Watson also granted Crouch's request to conduct the case in secret, sealing all documents and expunging any mention of the suit from public court records.
Both sides eventually agreed to let a private arbitrator decide the matter. In June, the arbitrator ruled that Ford could not publish the manuscript without violating the 1998 settlement — an act that could subject him to monetary damages.
This account of the controversy is drawn from interviews with friends of Ford's, unsealed court records, correspondence among TBN lawyers and a copy of the arbitrator's confidential ruling. The arbitrator's decision contains details about the 1998 settlement and Ford's manuscript — both of which are under seal.
Records and interviews show that even as they battled to keep Ford's story from leaking, TBN lawyers worried that details would eventually come out.
"I am absolutely amazed that Lonnie hasn't gone to Penthouse or Dianne [sic] Sawyer with his manuscript, notwithstanding the [judge's] injunction," TBN attorney Dennis G. Brewer Sr. wrote in a March letter to the network's other lawyers.
In a subsequent letter, in May, Brewer mentioned the anguish that Ford's accusations had caused Crouch's youngest son, Matt, when he learned of them in 1998.
Brewer wrote that the younger Crouch had told his then-law partner, David Middlebrook: "I am devastated; I am confronted with having to face the fact that my father is a homosexual."
Middlebrook and Matt Crouch have denied that there was such a conversation.
Millions of Viewers
Paul and Jan Crouch started TBN in 1973, using a rented studio in Santa Ana. Over the next three decades, they built a worldwide broadcasting network by buying TV stations and negotiating deals with cable systems and satellite companies.
Today, TBN's 24-hour-a-day menu of sermons, faith healing, inspirational movies and other Christian fare reaches millions of viewers from Spain to the Solomon Islands.
Paul Crouch is the driving entrepreneurial force behind the network and one of its most popular on-air personalities. He and Jan, his wife of 46 years, have cultivated a folksy on-screen image as a devoted couple.
TBN officials have long been concerned about how Ford's allegations could affect the network, which relies heavily on donations from viewers. Officials said they were particularly worried about possible comparisons to the scandal that brought down televangelist Jim Bakker in 1987.
Bakker resigned from his PTL Ministries in 1987 after admitting to paying a secretary $265,000 in ministry funds to be silent about an earlier affair. Bakker later went to prison for bilking donors.
TBN officials said they were careful not to pay Ford with ministry funds in 1998. They declined to say whether the money came from an insurer, Crouch personally or some other source.
Ford, 41, said he could not discuss his manuscript or his allegations against Crouch but he did provide basic facts about his background and his time at TBN.
Ford, whose father and grandfather were ministers, grew up in Fairfax County, Va., moved to California in 1989 and worked in a string of jobs that included jewelry salesman, produce clerk and gas station attendant. For years, he struggled to kick a cocaine habit.
In 1991, he checked into a Christian drug treatment program in Colleyville, Texas, on a TBN-owned ranch. It was there that Ford met Crouch. In 1992 the network hired him to work on a phone bank in Orange County. Ford said he also ran errands for the Crouches and drove Paul Crouch to appointments.
Ford repeatedly ran into trouble with the law, but TBN stood behind him. In 1994, he pleaded no contest in San Bernardino County to having sex with a 17-year-old boy and served six months in jail, according to court records. TBN took him back after his release.
In 1995, he pleaded guilty in Orange County to possession of cocaine and served about 30 days in County Jail. Again, TBN took him back.
Lake Arrowhead Cabin
The alleged sexual encounter between Ford and Crouch occurred in the fall of 1996, according to Sandi Mahlow, a Tustin housewife who met Ford in a Fullerton church 10 years ago and became a close friend.
Mahlow, 50, who helped Ford write his manuscript, said he broke down in tears after returning from a weekend spent alone with Crouch at a TBN-owned cabin near Lake Arrowhead. Mahlow said Ford told her that he and Crouch had engaged in sexual acts.
"Lonnie had a lot of bad traits; one thing he isn't, and that's a liar," Mahlow said. She said she helped Ford with his manuscript for no pay, as a favor to a friend, and has no financial interest in the book.
After the alleged encounter, Ford continued to work at TBN. For a time, he lived rent-free in an apartment at the network's Tustin headquarters, according to Mahlow and another friend of Ford's, Diane Benson, who met him at an Anaheim church 14 years ago.
A third friend of Ford's said that in October 1996, about the time of the alleged Arrowhead encounter, ministry officials gave her a $12,000 check to pay back money Ford owed her. The woman spoke on condition that she not be named, saying she feared retaliation.
TBN officials acknowledged that the ministry paid some of Ford's debts. They said the network commonly extends such generosity to employees in financial trouble.
Within weeks of the Arrowhead trip, Ford tested positive for drug use and was arrested for violating terms of his probation. While Ford awaited sentencing, the ministry again came to his support, urging the judge not to impose more prison time.
Ford "has continuously shown a very positive attitude regarding whatever we have asked him to do," wrote Ruth M. Brown, Paul Crouch's sister and TBN's director of personnel. "He carried out his duties cheerfully and always tries to do more than asked."
The judge sent Ford to the California Rehabilitation Center in Norco, a drug treatment facility in the state prison system.
In August 1997, Jay Jones, TBN's director of telephone ministry, wrote prison officials that Ford would have a job with the network after he got out, despite his "extended leave of absence."
But Ford said that after he was released in February 1998, he was told he no longer had a position at TBN.
"There comes a point in time when you have to say, 'Enough is enough,' " said John Casoria, a TBN lawyer who is a nephew of the Crouches.
Ford responded with his threat to sue. The settlement followed.
Despite TBN's efforts to keep Ford's charges secret, they surfaced in an unrelated 1998 lawsuit. A former bodyguard for TBN personality Benny Hinn testified in a deposition that during a European bus tour that year, Hinn had told a group of associates about "a sexual relationship that Paul Crouch had with his chauffeur."
The witness, Mario C. Licciardello, quoted Hinn as saying: "Paul's defense was that he was drunk."
Hinn and six others mentioned by Licciardello, who died in 2000, told The Times that Hinn never made such remarks. However, Rick Jones, a retired police officer and ordained minister who worked for Hinn, said he heard Hinn talk about Crouch's alleged homosexual relationship on that bus.
Jones said he was disgusted by the talk and "got up and walked away. I didn't want to hear gossip."
Asking $10 Million
Meanwhile, Ford began to have second thoughts about keeping silent. Last year, with Mahlow's help, he wrote his manuscript, titled "Arrowhead."
Friends said Ford wanted to expose what he viewed as Crouch's hypocrisy. They said he also needed money and hoped to earn some by selling the manuscript. It's unclear how Ford spent his 1998 settlement, but today he leads a modest existence, living in a room of a Lake Forest home and working as a mortgage salesman.
Ministry officials learned of the book in April 2003, when Ford walked onto the set of TBN's Costa Mesa broadcast studio and handed a copy of the manuscript to Crouch.
Ford's attorney, Eugene Zech, said that Brewer, the TBN lawyer, called him the next business day. In court papers, Zech said that Brewer asked "if Ford might be willing to accept $1 million in exchange for the manuscript."
Zech said in the court filing that he suggested $10 million.
When the parties went to arbitration, Crouch's lawyers argued that publication would violate the 1998 settlement and cause irreparable damage to Crouch's reputation. Ford's lawyers argued that the secrecy agreement was overly broad and violated his free-speech rights.
Arbitrator Robert J. Neill ruled that Ford's right to make his allegations public "was sold to [Crouch] for $425,000." Ford "bargained away his right to speak on certain matters and now suggests that his right to free speech trumps that bargain…. [His] right to discuss these matters was bought and paid for. He relinquished that right."
Paul Crouch Jr., a TBN executive and the televangelist's oldest son, said that despite the favorable ruling, he wished his father had never entered into the settlement with Ford.
Crouch said advisors persuaded his father that it would be cheaper to settle than to litigate. He said TBN was particularly anxious to avoid negative publicity because the ministry was celebrating its 25th anniversary that year.
"In hindsight, we should have fought Lonnie tooth and nail," the son said in an interview. "We should have drawn the battle lines right there."
[Source.]
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Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.
Posts: 346 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2004
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