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Topic: John Hagee
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Endoxos
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Member # 2929
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Thanks that is what I would guess, is that the Islamics would pretend to accept the Catholics' concessions, for a "lie" and then turn on the Catholic powers if they didn't get full Submission to all of "Allah's" ways.
Islam doesn't appear to be very unbending.
Someone on these forums here wrote that Islam feels they are the most complete of the 3 monotheists religions.
They do start out with the Torah, only they believe that Ishmael is Abraham's true heir, not Isaac. As they point out, Ishmael is the first born. They have sort of cut and pasted the scriptures of the Old Testament and New Testament and added the Teachings of Mohammad.
I have read that Islam believes that the Jews are the ones who have perverted the true scriptures.
In that our scriptures point to Isaac as the heir of Abraham, as he was the son of the promise.
Yeah, Islam won't bend an inch, though they outwardly may seem so. If a Muslim believes in the Koran literally, they fall into the same fundamentalist catagory the terrorists do... the liberals who don't believe in the inerrancy of the Koran, or take it as being "spiritual, not literal"... those are the friendly ones we can get along with on a day to day basis. ...though I occasionally wonder if they're using taqiyya to appear moderate or liberal... (I'm NOT paranoid! Some of 'em really ARE out to get us! ^_^)
Cut-and-pasted would have been respectable. You give it too much credit. Mangled is a more appropriate word. They took the Torah, the Bible, and the Apocrypha and pretty much put it in a blender with the lid open. Things such as Satan's reason for being expelled from Heaven (because he wouldn't worship Adam as Allah told him to), djinni (good, but fiery, demons), a sea creature remotely like Leviathan (Bahamut... a mangling of Behemoth) holds a bull on its back, and this bull holds the world up... Gabriel the Archangel breaking open Muhammed's chest and washing his heart with the filthiest water (from the well of Zamzam) in the whole area, then closing and healing it brings about Muhammed's visions... The stuff from the Bible and Torah are mangled with Apocryphal stuff, with pre-Islamic Arabic myths added in for good measure.
You're half right about the Jews. The Koran teaches the Jews re-wrote the Torah, and Paul caused Christian teachings to go astray from Jesus' teachings... that both Jews and Christians perverted scripture. Oddly enough, the Koran also proclaims that its words came from the Torah and the Gospel, and is perfect. Either 1.) If the Torah and Gospel are corrupted, then the Koran is corrupted too, or 2.) If the Koran is perfect, then the Torah and Gospel must be too, since we have unchanged copies of both from pre-Islamic times. They don't see that, though. Go figure.
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My signature is apisdn umop.
Posts: 362 | From: HELP! I'm stuck in a DOS window! | Registered: Mar 2004
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Ripp
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posted
WhiteEagle wrote:
quote:
They do start out with the Torah, only they believe that Ishmael is Abraham's true heir, not Isaac. As they point out, Ishmael is the first born.
"For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar-- for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children--but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
For it is written:
"Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband."
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman." So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free."
[Gal 4:22-31]
![[1zhelp]](graemlins/1zhelp.gif) ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif) ![[dance]](graemlins/dance1.gif) ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Endoxos:
Yes, they will allow it... temporarily.
Taqiyya - their version of apologetics - allows for lying IF it is for the purpose of defending Islam. In fact, even Muhammed himself [no shocker there] practiced it (in the Hadith, a group of Arabian Christians asked a servant of Muhammed why he had said in the Koran [Surah 19:28] Mary's brother was Aaron (Moses' brother, Aaron). The servant was so confused, he had to go to Muhammed for an answer. Muhammed replied [Sahih Muslim Book 025 verse 5326] that "The ancients used to give names to their persons after the names of Apostle and pious persons who had gone before them"... meaning either 1.) "Sibling of so-and-so" was an idiom implying that a good person could be likened to an important Biblical person (ie brother of David, sister of Esther), however no such idiom existed either during Mary and Joseph's time (or in Muhammed's time either), and even if it *did* exist, noone would have even questioned it... it would have been immediately understood, or 2.) Muhammed was saying Mary's brother was named Aaron after the first High Priest of God... though no such record of Mary having any brothers exists in the Bible or in any Jewish records. I don't think it's in any Gnostic writings either. [Naming kids after holy people are Catholic and Arabic traditions, not a Judeo-Christian one. The Jews named their children after their own family {Luke 1:59-61}.]
So Muhammed lied to get out of getting caught in a lie. And "Allah" didn't make him a smear upon the earth. So a lie that severe against a Prophet's mom was no big sin in Allah's eyes.
If it means that Catholics would convert willingly to Islam if they accept Mary "Queen of Heaven" as being someone special, they would say to the Catholics "we accept her as being something special to you", but in their heart reject her as anything other than a decent woman with a miraculous birth. If not, then go into initiate-Jihad-mode.
Thanks that is what I would guess, is that the Islamics would pretend to accept the Catholics' concessions, for a "lie" and then turn on the Catholic powers if they didn't get full Submission to all of "Allah's" ways.
Islam doesn't appear to be very unbending.
Someone on these forums here wrote that Islam feels they are the most complete of the 3 monotheists religions.
They do start out with the Torah, only they believe that Ishmael is Abraham's true heir, not Isaac. As they point out, Ishmael is the first born. They have sort of cut and pasted the scriptures of the Old Testament and New Testament and added the Teachings of Mohammad.
I have read that Islam believes that the Jews are the ones who have perverted the true scriptures.
In that our scriptures point to Isaac as the heir of Abraham, as he was the son of the promise.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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Endoxos
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Member # 2929
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posted
Yes, they will allow it... temporarily.
Taqiyya - their version of apologetics - allows for lying IF it is for the purpose of defending Islam. In fact, even Muhammed himself [no shocker there] practiced it (in the Hadith, a group of Arabian Christians asked a servant of Muhammed why he had said in the Koran [Surah 19:28] Mary's brother was Aaron (Moses' brother, Aaron). The servant was so confused, he had to go to Muhammed for an answer. Muhammed replied [Sahih Muslim Book 025 verse 5326] that "The ancients used to give names to their persons after the names of Apostle and pious persons who had gone before them"... meaning either 1.) "Sibling of so-and-so" was an idiom implying that a good person could be likened to an important Biblical person (ie brother of David, sister of Esther), however no such idiom existed either during Mary and Joseph's time (or in Muhammed's time either), and even if it *did* exist, noone would have even questioned it... it would have been immediately understood, or 2.) Muhammed was saying Mary's brother was named Aaron after the first High Priest of God... though no such record of Mary having any brothers exists in the Bible or in any Jewish records. I don't think it's in any Gnostic writings either. [Naming kids after holy people are Catholic and Arabic traditions, not a Judeo-Christian one. The Jews named their children after their own family {Luke 1:59-61}.]
So Muhammed lied to get out of getting caught in a lie. And "Allah" didn't make him a smear upon the earth. So a lie that severe against a Prophet's mom was no big sin in Allah's eyes.
If it means that Catholics would convert willingly to Islam if they accept Mary "Queen of Heaven" as being someone special, they would say to the Catholics "we accept her as being something special to you", but in their heart reject her as anything other than a decent woman with a miraculous birth. If not, then go into initiate-Jihad-mode.
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My signature is apisdn umop.
Posts: 362 | From: HELP! I'm stuck in a DOS window! | Registered: Mar 2004
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Pope John Paul II has kissed the Koran, prayed in a Muslim mosque, declared that the Catholics worship the same god as Islam, all while claiming that the Roman Church is the one TRUE Church.
Mary Queen of Heaven, not to be confused with Mary the mother of Christ, is to be the uniter of Islam and Rome. Beg to differ if you so choose, but watch.
Islam is the fastest growing world wide religion.
Check this out....
http://www.harpazo.net/Queen.html
I agree that the Pope and the powers of the Catholic church are attempting to find common "ground" with Islam. The question is....Will the Islamic Fundamentalist leaders and radicals really allow it.
I agree the Islam is growing worldwide. I think it's about 1/4 or 1/3 of the world is Islamic.
I'm always watching. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
They did a show on 60 Mins 2 that the Muslim relegion is one of the fastest growing relegions in Texas of all places. These are non arab Texans who have left Baptist and other tradional faiths to embrace the Muslim faith.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Pope John Paul II has kissed the Koran, prayed in a Muslim mosque, declared that the Catholics worship the same god as Islam, all while claiming that the Roman Church is the one TRUE Church.
Mary Queen of Heaven, not to be confused with Mary the mother of Christ, is to be the uniter of Islam and Rome. Beg to differ if you so choose, but watch.
Islam is the fastest growing world wide religion.
Check this out....
http://www.harpazo.net/Queen.html
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I see that the Roman Church and Islam will come together in the name of eccumenism and be the religious portion of the religious/political system that will be worldwide and is Babylon.
I beg to differ. The Roman Catholic Church powers may try to come together with Islam, but Islam would NEVER accept them.
It was the Holy Roman Empire that started the Crusades. Islam won't forget, even though it was 1000 years ago. Only if Rome "submit" to Allah would they accept Rome.
The EU which is the lands of the Holy Roman Empire may appease Islam enough to make a false peace, but I can't see Islam ever coming together with any other religion in an Ecumentical movement.
So that could leave Islam as the Beast, or Islam is destroyed so that other religions do come together, so that no Religion ever gets as fanactical as Islam.
That's just from seeing them in action since 9-11.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SciptureAndPrayers:
Is there anybody out there who isn't anti-Catholic?
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
I'm not anti-catholic. I don't think much of some of their church traditions or tenets, but ... many catholics are truly Born-again. They do believe in the redemptive work of Christ.
They worship Christ and Catholics aren't the only christian sect that adds "works".
I began to start having a respect for Catholics as they are the most vocal Christian group holding the line against abortion and euthanasia.
Try getting a Protestant Church to hold a rally to show support to over-turn Roe vs Wade. Maybe other places can, but not my area.
I think Abortion is the one big single sin of this country that God will judge us. Catholics are the most vocal in being active to change the laws. There are other "sins" of America, but that's the most heinous, we/ve killed 1/3 of the next generation.
I like John Hagee, but I think he needs to seek God and get an update on the Beast and who's Babylon.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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BORN AGAIN
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Isaiah 13
1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.
4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
Judging from the above, it seems that Babylon refers to the nations of the world, or the Satanic system which found its greatest outlet at Babylon, with soothsayers, witchcraft, and the like.
When Satan's Babylon system is fallen, the LORD will take over with His system.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I found this interesting.
http://www.angelfire.com/de/knowledgeoftruth/rcislam.html
The Roman Catholic Church and Islam
The Roman Catholic Church and Islam have much in common:
1. Both the Roman Catholic Church and Islam believe that they are the one true church/religion.
2. The Roman Catholic Church and the Islam require mandatory fasting.
3. The Roman Catholic Church worships, prays to and gives titles of God to Mary. Islam highly esteems Mary and she is mentioned 34 times in the Qu'ran.
"Even the infidel Muhammed glorifies Mary in his Koran, saying, 'The angels shall say to Maryam, "Allah has chosen thee; he has made thee exempt from all stain'". The Marian (Roman Catholic) Bible
4. The Roman Catholic Church and Islam base their salvation on a complicated system of works and deny salvation by faith alone. There is no assurance of salvation in either religion.
5. Both cults deny the Biblical view of the Atonement. The Roman Catholic Church doctrine dictates that one must go to Purgatory to have his sins purged, Jesus just paved the way. The Muslims believe their works will save them but will not know until Judgment Day. This is because there is no atonement for sin, and God's grace does not exist.
6. The Roman Catholic Church claims visions and apparitions in an effort to add false doctrine. Muhammad claimed to be purified as a child by angels. He claimed to receive revelations from Archangel Jibril or Gabriel.
7. The Roman Catholic Church uses a rosary for their prayers, Islam uses prayer beads. The rosary/prayer beads are concepts taken from paganism.
8. The Pope is the vicar or substitute of Christ for the Roman Catholic Church. (# 882 RCC Catechism) In Islam, Muhammad is called the last and final Messenger of God, the successor to Jesus.
9. The Roman Catholic Church and Islam have their own divorce system. The Roman Catholic Church grants anullments and Islam allows a man to divorce his wife by telling her she is divorced.
10. Islam rejects the Trinity doctrine, the Deity of Christ, salvation by grace through faith and teaches that Christians should be killed. However, the Roman Catholic Church accepts them and believes that they are offered salvation because of their faith in Abraham. (# 841 RCC Catechism)
11. Both church organizations believe that leaving their church will result in eternal damnation.
12. The Roman Catholic Church and Islam share a hatred for the Jews.
13. The Roman Catholic Church and the Islam base some of their doctrine on pagan traditions. For The Roman Catholic Church the traditions of a goddess, rosary, pope, relics, purgatory, transubstantiation, praying to dead people, and idol worship are all based on paganism. The Allah of Islam was actually a pagan god, and not even the major deity.
14. The Roman Catholic Church and Islam have added books to support false doctrine. The Roman Catholic Church has added the Apocrypha and Islam the Qu'ran.
15. The Roman Catholic Church priest system (including Popes) has a history of sexual abuse of women and children. Islam has a history of (including Muhammad) sexual abuse of women and children.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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Niedziejkore
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posted
quote:
I know there has been a spotlight in the current news about the Catholic Church's attempts at reconciliation with Islam, but I haven't seen any of the details. To me this is like reconciling oil and water; I don't see how it could be done.
It's been done. It was called the RENNAISANCE!
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Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.
Posts: 346 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2004
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SciptureAndPrayers
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Member # 3633
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I see that the Roman Church and Islam will come together in the name of eccumenism and be the religious portion of the religious/political system that will be worldwide and is Babylon.
I know there has been a spotlight in the current news about the Catholic Church's attempts at reconciliation with Islam, but I haven't seen any of the details. To me this is like reconciling oil and water; I don't see how it could be done.
Is there anybody out there who isn't anti-Catholic?
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In Christ's love. Amen.
Posts: 345 | From: Rochester NY | Registered: Jul 2004
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Aaron
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I see that the Roman Church and Islam will come together [snip]
Just those two? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Aaron
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HisGrace
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I understand that Babylon will entail gov't., commerce and religion. Maybe this gov't will be centralized in Rome, but I believe that "Babylon" is also a symbol of the sin of the world as set out in O.T. times.
Isaiah 14
22 "I will rise up against them," declares the Lord Almighty. "I will cut off from Babylon her name and survivors, her offspring and descendants," declares the LORD .
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
I see that the Roman Church and Islam will come together in the name of eccumenism and be the religious portion of the religious/political system that will be worldwide and is Babylon.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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BORN AGAIN
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I don't think that Rome is Babylon of Revelation. I tend to think that Babylon refers to the whole world system which will fall down when the LORD returns to Zion:
Jeremiah 51:7
Babylon has been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.
Jeremiah 51:8
Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed.
Psalm 47
8 For God reigns over the heathen: God sits upon the throne of His holiness.
The secular, political part of Rome and Italy at large will of course be included in that great fall of the "Babylonish world system," but the Catholic Church is part of Christianity and whosoever in the Catholic Church is a true believer will also be saved, just like the Protestant believers and Israelite believers will be saved.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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KnowHim
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I saw the program also and it was very good. We all need to be looking for the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. That is our hope!
We live in exciting times and we must not be asleep! So to everyone:
WAKE-UP
grin!!!
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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Israel
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posted
I saw John Hagee today, I also taped him, I always do. I say Mr. Hagee hit the nail right on the head. It makes since what he said about the catholic religion, but I'm not surprised by it.
Marilyn
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Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; they shall prosper that love thee.
Posts: 97 | From: Indiana | Registered: Apr 2004
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Ripp
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Did anyone see John Hagee's show today on TBN? I encourage all of you to catch a repeat of it when you can this week. It was the first part in a 3 part series on the events leading up to the tribulation. His theory is that Rome is the Babylon mentioned in revelation. He based the reasoning for this on all the pagan beliefs the Catholic religion adopted and some other things. I need to catch the repeat episode as well since I was caught off guard by what he said. It is a 3 part series that will be continued next week. Let me know what you guys think and if you have heard about that theory before. Thanks and God bless.
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