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Author Topic: nuclear technology exported by Pakistan
whitesands777
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Well, the thing about what is going on over there is very suspect to me.....I try to be careful about reading what the news media tries to send because it can easily be used to promote ideas that aren't true...

Are they really going to give them there own government ? Or, are they going to give them over to someone that agrees to operate under the authority of the U.N ?

Another thing that always bothers me is how the media or people try to blame economic performance on the President...But they never will mention who controls the money supply or that it is the policies of the Federal Reserve (privately owned central bank) that is what manipulates the economy for their benefit...

I think it's all just more things to move the world closer toward a one world government.

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Favor Minded
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Thanks MentorsRiddle!

And you are right on the money!! How easily "Christians" slip out of the Christian mode and into the Worldly Political mode...

niedziejkore

Does your name have anything to do with Jeff niedziejko of a band whose name I cannot say here?

Just curious -



Weapons of Mass Destruction - Worm Wood as prophesied in the bible.....



Oh, they exist - All over - Intelligence also knows where Saddams went.

The original premise was NOT JUST WMD though - It was to remove, finally 12 years after the first go around which it should have been done then, Saddam and stop him from doing what he was doing AND eliminate the threat.

Unfortunately he got wind early and his WMD materials were sent to Africa where they are currently be sifted to various other places...

More to come on that later....

Gotta run for now....

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whitesands777
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Mentors Riddle wrote
quote:
The war is over it is rebels that exist within Iraq that is causeing the problems. How do we track down individuals that can blend in and hide anywhere??? We can't untill they strike and so we must pick them off one by one. My friend is over there right now fighting for every one of you, FIGHTING FOR YOUR FREEDOM! SHAME ON YOU!
I guess it comes down to what your opinion of "war" is...

Bombs exploding, people shooting each other sounds like war to me...

quote:
Shame on you who is so greedy with your freedom that you woudln't want to fight for someone elses that they may enjoy the same liberties that you enjoy every single day... Say the liberty to SPEAK OUT AGAINST THE PRESIDENT AS YOU HAVE DONE!
You need to read my post again...You are making false assumptions and accusations...Did they not go over there under the premise of WMD ?
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whitesands777
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quote:
The War" is over -

Now it is insurgencies - And the root of it all is Israel -

And, unless you have first hand knowledge you cannot speak about something the media tells you and deny it one way or the other.

Where are the WMD ? Wasn't that the initial premise used for invading ?
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MentorsRiddle
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He fights for the concept of our freedom. The longer the insurgence goes on in the "3rd world countries", the more powerful they grow. Soon, if allowed to fester, the ideals of suppression would flood into this very country stripping us of what freedoms we have left.


When my friend tells me that a woman walked up to him in the streets and pointed at the American Flag on his arm and said "I love America" and all the children did too then that is worth all the things going on over there if just one life could be changed and made better. While that may seem ignorant to many, to the people over there fighting it does not seem dumb, and that is why they do it.

If we are not willing to fight for others freedom, the same freedom that we enjoy, then we are not worthy to have and atain the freedom we do now...

--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.

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Niedziejkore
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i'm sorry but your friend in not fighting for my freedom or your freedom.

--------------------
Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.

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MentorsRiddle
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Whitesands777 wrote:The same administration that is claiming this also said the war was over a year ago.....And that there were WMD....

Don't believe everything the media tells you...

The war is over it is rebels that exist within Iraq that is causeing the problems. How do we track down individuals that can blend in and hide anywhere??? We can't untill they strike and so we must pick them off one by one. My friend is over there right now fighting for every one of you, FIGHTING FOR YOUR FREEDOM! SHAME ON YOU! Shame on you who is so greedy with your freedom that you woudln't want to fight for someone elses that they may enjoy the same liberties that you enjoy every single day... Say the liberty to SPEAK OUT AGAINST THE PRESIDENT AS YOU HAVE DONE! in other countries you would be shot or hainged for your words but here you do not because someone decided one day to fight and stand up.. The Iraq people could not stand up and fight because Sadam's army would have put them down. They weren't allowed to have guns what were they going to use Rocks?!?!

As for the Media they will only report on what will get them the most rateings. If peace and happiness were going to get the most rateings you would be seeing a whole different side of the Iraq situation.

God help us in a Godless time!

--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.

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MentorsRiddle
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Favor Minded I agree 100% with everything that you have said. Thank you for being a light of reason in such a dark time.

--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.

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Niedziejkore
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quote:
Niedzeijkore, how is it that you can put a price tag on a person's life? When 9/11 occured, how many of those people "weren't worth being saved" from that rubble? After all, they were merely collateral damage, 3000 lives aren't worth it... or are they worth it to you because maybe they were American sheeple who answer to the government's every beck and call?
Well, the government had nothing to do with whether or not the NYFD and NYPD would go into the WTC wreckage and save those people. That is the responsibility of the city. I support that action.

quote:
Is it because they're Iraqi that their lives are not worth it, that somehow, they are less human, and not quite created in God's image than you or I?
no

quote:
Is it because they are poor and can't contribute to the global society as you can?
no

quote:
Or perhaps because they begged soldiers "Please spare my family" because they said or did something while someone was having a bad day? Tell me... what makes their lives so expendable?
I never said their lives were expendable. The only point I made was that to go to war to save political prisoners is not worth the cost to us or the Iraqi people.

quote:
...and what is it about you that puts you above them... that your life is more valuable and worthy of being spared from a miserable existance?
My life is not more valuable than their lives... why do you assume I believe that? I'm not above them in any way and I am not more worthy to be spared a miserable existence.

--------------------
Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.

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BORN AGAIN
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Personally I prefer to fight Islamic Jihad-types on their own "if I die I go to heaven" turf and keep them as far away from us as possible.

Generally, I think Iraq will eventually be a less radical state than it was under Sadam Hussein. But then, the actions of this one Pakistani nuclear scientist alone can make all our progress in Iraq seem like child's play.

Our God will fight for us.

God bless, [Cross] BORN AGAIN

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Endoxos
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Look, the poorest people in Iraq aren't starving anymore, and the only real violence there is Al-Sadr attacking the soldiers and innocent bystanders. WMDs or not (btw, they *did* find WMD's, just in miniscule amounts... biological weapons were indeed there. I personally believe they were snuck out to Damascus, Syria), it is FAR better to give Iraqis the chance to live to be able to say "The people in charge can kiss my..." as opposed to harboring such feelings in fear, knowing that if they don't sing "Hail to the chief" with enough pride to please the leader, their wife and daughters will be raped and their husbands and sons killed before their eyes.

Niedzeijkore, how is it that you can put a price tag on a person's life? When 9/11 occured, how many of those people "weren't worth being saved" from that rubble? After all, they were merely collateral damage, 3000 lives aren't worth it... or are they worth it to you because maybe they were American sheeple who answer to the government's every beck and call? Is it because they're Iraqi that their lives are not worth it, that somehow, they are less human, and not quite created in God's image than you or I? Is it because they are poor and can't contribute to the global society as you can? Or perhaps because they begged soldiers "Please spare my family" because they said or did something while someone was having a bad day? Tell me... what makes their lives so expendable? ...and what is it about you that puts you above them... that your life is more valuable and worthy of being spared from a miserable existance?

Shame on you for degrading your fellow man.

--------------------
My signature is apisdn umop.

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Favor Minded
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"The War" is over -

Now it is insurgencies - And the root of it all is Israel -

And, unless you have first hand knowledge you cannot speak about something the media tells you and deny it one way or the other.

I would caution you to listen to the Holy Spirit says -

And again, it is about what is right to do - Not politically correct.

When you stand in front of Almighty God and he asks you how you think you did - You could say I obeyed the laws of the land, and I prayed and respected the leadership you appointed, or...

You could say - Well, I didn't like the leadership and I didn't trust it so I decided to not support what you had promoted and who you had placed in Leadership over me...Sorry God, I just didn't agree with you -

The Lord Says -

Your ways are not my ways -
Your thoughts are not my thoughts -

Pretty straightforward -

Beleive what they tell you? How about get involved and find out for yourself? I've been there.....

Thanks -

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whitesands777
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quote:
Caloric intake is up in the Food for Oil program now that he is gone - Their quality of life, food and medicines are MUCH improved because now the UN has control over their trades, food, farming, and overall government expenses.

The same administration that is claiming this also said the war was over a year ago.....And that there were WMD....

Don't believe everything the media tells you...

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Favor Minded
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I am not buying into ANY political stance -

I am simply addressing the specific comment about what is not worth it and maybe a little about "Look Around!" -

We sit back and judge what God has told us simply to follow.

God in his word demands that we obey the laws, pray for our leadership, and lift them up and support them no matter what.

It is not about the Hook, Line, and Sinker - It is about replacing Love for judgement -

Jesus said there is NO GREATER love than to lay down your life for another - This means reputation as well.

Are you willing to lay down your life for even one of these people? That is a VERY difficult question for anyone - I would like to say Yes, but sadly none of us have the Love that Jesus had for everyone.

I ahve been a student of Prophecy for a long time, and I have been a parent for longer. I am 42 years old and have 6 children.

Could I tolerate what happens in the rest of the world here? NO - But what about Abraham? Do we follow and trust Christ so much that we would go so far as to have the dagger poised and ready to impale our own child as he did?

I dare say most do not although I believe as Christians, we desparately desire that level of faith -

So, with in mind, I implore EVERYONE to look around - Get involved - You think Kerry could do better? You think Bush does not deserve our support?

He IS IN THE DRIVERS SEAT! The bible says support him, pray for him, do as he says!

So I have to trust that God knows exactly what HE is doing - I could never say someone is NOT WORTH IT, referring to $$$ -

Politics? Jesus cared little of such things, as do I - I care about what is happening and it saddens me when "Christians" care more about judging the Presidential seat than saving a few dollars to help feed a starving African child...

Or deciding that our government knows little or nothing and needs to be ousted for something better - TRUST God! That is what he wants us to do.

I am not saying we should not be educated about who is who and what they stand for come election time, but who in history has ever stood in the face of homosexuality, oppression, Christianity which is a BIG one, and has stood in the face of such adversity and said WE SHOULD NOT SIT IDLY by and watch???

That is all - DO I believe Bush is the BEST THERE IS? The Word says God placed him there, and that is good enough for me.

At election time, I have to decide if a guy who goes after the oppressors in the world, at the expense of middle Americas wallet is better than a guy who goes after the Gay and Pro Choice vote....And so does everyone else -

We spend too much time trying to find wrong, instead of trusting what God has placed in front of us, and doing what he has asked - Support them, lift them up, and pray for them and obey the law -

Get involved and fulfill the great commission - Stop being so critical and start being more helpful....

So no, I am not hooking in, only obeying what God has commanded I do ....
[type]

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SciptureAndPrayers
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FavorMinded,

Although I can't commit 100% to Niedziejkore's views, I do think that you're being a little naive. Surely you don't buy the Bush administration's party line hook, line, and sinker?

[Eek!]

--------------------
In Christ's love. Amen.

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quote:

I don't think the amount of money the US spent on freeing the Iraqi political prisoners was worth it. The political prisoners really weren't worth saving anyway.

And what do you suppose the money should have been spend on? And, furthermore, what is the cost of a soul? So you think that God would have preferred we not bother to protect one of his children? WOW! What would have been "Worth it"??

quote:

And furthermore, I don't believe it is our right to interfere with the third world. I think we should feed them, give them medicine and vaccines... help with infrastructure even... but this whole idea that our government can impose regime change at will is crazy. If things are that oppressive, the people will revolt.

Have you ever wondered why our Country STILL today enjoys freedoms that MOST of the rest of the world -3rd world included, do not? WHy do think it is that we are not yet (Although it is beginning to happen here, just as prophesied) tortured and beaten for our beliefs? WHy as Christians are not hanged, beheaded, etc. yet?

Revolt? HOW? Saddam oppressed the entire nation - He skimmed enough from the Oil for Food program and Oil sales in general to build his Palaces, and to pay those he saw fit to pay - Others lived under threat of death to their children and families, etc. We NEVER saw this type of oppression here - NEVER!

The Prophet Daniel was from IRAQ - How do you suppose he would feel living under the leadership of someone who performed regular acts of genocide, starvation, demanding Worship of his statues, etc.? Why do you think the US has been BLESSED with abilities far and away (Not so very soon) above the rest?

quote:

We had to figure that out during our revolution, and other people need to find out that they can flip over the status quo through revolution the same way we did.

What if we were outnumbered? What if the "leadership" regulalry raped and killed our families, susters, and children. WHat if we had to watch while a soldier raped our little daughter, then our mother, then killed them and said now you will join us or we will kill you next. We NEVER had to endure the type of oppression that these people lived under and in some ways still are...

It is ALL in prophecy though - And being fulfilled everyday...

quote:

Are the Iraqis better off now that we got rid of Saddam? I don't think so in the long run. Imagine if instead of us revolting, France came in, destroyed our continental congress, and made our constitution for us. I don't think we'd be as patriotic now if that was the case... and I doubt Iraqis will have the sort of love for their country the way we do.

Caloric intake is up in the Food for Oil program now that he is gone - Their quality of life, food and medicines are MUCH improved because now the UN has control over their trades, food, farming, and overall government expenses.

With proper $$$ management, their children are living, not suffering, being killed, raped, exploited and otherwise being forced to fight for a cause that clearly did not deserve to be fought for.

And, lastly, consider this - The Bible, Gods Holy, and Infallible Word explains in detail that God appoints and promotes who he will. SO, if he appointed, promoted, and gave direction to a President to aid in the prevention of genocide in the Holy Land of Iraq, who are we to judge that, and, who are we to decide that the prisoners are not worth it????

Genocide, mass murder, rapes, starvation, are OUT OF CONTROL around the world, and especially in 3rd world countries. Africa, suffering SO EXTENSIVELY today, and yet you see the fulfillment of prophecy around each corner, each day, each headline -

But when you look close, you see the pain and suffering that almost EVERYWHERE BUT here is enduring (Yes, much of the EU is too with the addition of the new countries - ANother discuission though - too long for here) and it makes you realize how insignificant the LITTLE bit of help we can give really is.

Our place is NOT to stand and say they are not worth it - It should be what God has commanded -

Children - Jesus said it is better for someone to tie brick around their neck and drown themselves if they have caused these little ones to suffer -

Around the world they being exploited, raped, murdered, some by OUR OWN TROOPS! Look at what has happened recently in Africa and Asia -

OF course I am only scratching the surface of what is happening - Just Praise the Lord for your freedoms and as ask him what you can do to help relieve some of the suffering and pain that these peoples around the globe are enduring,

instead of deciding that they are not "Worth it" -

What value does God place on a soul? On a Child? Hmmm.... That seems like a better question to me...

Jesus said that what you do unto THE LEAST of these, you do unto me -

So saying someone is not worth saving is saying that Jesus is not worth it -

You love Jesus as much as the person or people you like least...Until we develop a heart for souls, a desire to "Save the World" and weep for the suffering of Gods people, we cannot truly say we Love Jesus - He wants us to pray for these people, do what we can, and most of all, Love Them as we Love Ourselves -

In this way we are doing what he asked us to do - And when you seek to love others the way Christ loved the Church, he begins to soften you heart -

You begin to weep at things that before hardened you, like the concerns over government spending instead of thepain and suffering that results form the mor economincally sound states, provinces, and countries LACK OF involvement.

Ok - Off my soap box now - But I am telling you saints, God WANTS US to pray for them, intercede, stand in the Gap, Believe and desire their salvation - Not care about theirs or our governments bottom line -

God said HE WILL take care of that, he will promote who he will and he will take down who he will -

Our country enjoys freedoms that ALLOW US TO HELP!!

Praise God we are able to instead of slam it for doing so....

[Bible]


Favor Minded

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Niedziejkore
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I don't think the amount of money the US spent on freeing the Iraqi political prisoners was worth it. The political prisoners really weren't worth saving anyway.

And furthermore, I don't believe it is our right to interfere with the third world. I think we should feed them, give them medicine and vaccines... help with infrastructure even... but this whole idea that our government can impose regime change at will is crazy. If things are that oppressive, the people will revolt. We had to figure that out during our revolution, and other people need to find out that they can flip over the status quo through revolution the same way we did.

Are the Iraqis better off now that we got rid of Saddam? I don't think so in the long run. Imagine if instead of us revolting, France came in, destroyed our continental congress, and made our constitution for us. I don't think we'd be as patriotic now if that was the case... and I doubt Iraqis will have the sort of love for their country the way we do.

--------------------
Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.

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SciptureAndPrayers
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Endoxos,

I don't think you're naive, as much as we're a little jaded. But geopolitics does that to people over time. God help us.

[crying]

--------------------
In Christ's love. Amen.

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Endoxos
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I have to add a third; I may be naive, I may have my head in a hole, or I might just want to see the good in everyone...

3.) To put and end to the torture of political prisoners and innocents (Abu Ghraib aside, as a sorrowful fluke, of course).

--------------------
My signature is apisdn umop.

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TEXASGRANDMA
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Like everyone else I wanted to believe the war in Iraq was about Sept. 11, but I have come to believe it was about two things
1. revenge for President's Bush's dad
2. OIL

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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SciptureAndPrayers
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Niedziejkore,

I like the way you think!
[thumbsup2]

--------------------
In Christ's love. Amen.

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Niedziejkore
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phew! Good thing we went into Iraq and Afghanistan because, hell, uh, wait... shouldn't we have gone into Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran, Libya, or Pakistan to fight terrorism? That would have made sense.

However, without going into Iraq and Afghanistan, We won't be able to build an oil pipeline through those countries to save us all a few cents on gas.

God Bless America!

--------------------
Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.

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BORN AGAIN
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Business Week in its March 2004 reports news from February 2004 that Pakistan's top nuclear scientist has exported nuclear technology to Libya, Iran, and North Korea.

Of these three, Libya and Iran (or Persia) are mentioned as coming with Gomer in the Ezekiel 38-39 war:

Ezekiel 38
1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

The noose is tightening around the neck of the nations.

God bless, BORN AGAIN [Cross]

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