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Topic: EU LEADERS PRAISE AGREEMENT ON CONSTITUTION
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Spurgeon
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posted
On erusalem = Babylon: points 1-15 in my post were to to point Babylon to Jerusalem, such as
quote:
6. The blood of prophets and holy ones are in her (Rev 18:24).
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets" (Luk 11:34).
As for "Satan's Messiah" coming from Bethlehem, the false messiah will have to appear as close as to fulfilling the prophecies in Daniel and Isaiah if he expects to get people to follow him.
Look at what the book of Revelation already tells you about the first beast:
Rev 13:5 - he has power for 42 months, or a little more than 3 years. How long was Christ's earthly ministry?
This false Christ will perform great miracles, so as to deceive the elect (Mat 24:24).
Posts: 39 | From: Cookeville, TN | Registered: May 2004
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rapturewatcher
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posted
The term "Babylon" is controversial among prophecy students. Babylon, as used in Revelation, refers to two things, primarily:
1) It is a religious system; and
2) it is a political and commercial system.
The religious Babylon is found mainly in Revelation, Chapter 17. Commercial Babylon is found mainly in Revelation, Chapter 18.
The controversy comes when the questions arise: Will a city called Babylon be rebuilt on the site of ancient Babylon, to become the greatest city on earth during the tribulation?
Or, is Babylon symbolic of a great commercial center or another great city on earth that will be destroyed?
Many good prophecy scholars have different answers to these questions. Some hold to both sides of the controversy simultaneously. One thing is sure, God's Word considers Babylon a humanistic, rebellious, anti-God entity on the world stage as human history draws to a conclusion.
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rapturewatcher
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posted
Is there scripture to support this statement? quote:
And one more thing about Bethlehem -- Satan's "Messiah" will have to come from there to appear legitimate.
quote:
If it seems to odd to think that Babylon means Jerusalem
I don't see Babylon as Jerusalem?
Can you please explain this to me, and I would prefer scriptures.
Thank you! ![[type]](graemlins/type.gif)
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Spurgeon
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posted
And one more thing about Bethlehem -- Satan's "Messiah" will have to come from there to appear legitimate.
Posts: 39 | From: Cookeville, TN | Registered: May 2004
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Spurgeon
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posted
I hope since this thread is mentioning the anti-Christ, this won't be "thread hijacking".
Concerning the anti-Christ, I'm in the "He's going to be a Jew" camp.
quote:
he is identified as being from the people who "will destroy the city and the sanctuary."
Ah, but Rome [or more properly Hadrian] renamed Judea to Palestina. Modern Bethlehem is in the Palestinian occupied territory.
http://directory.google.com/Top/Regional/Middle_East/Palestinian_Territory/Localities/Bethlehem_Governorate/
The temple mount (Har HaBayit and Haram esh Sharif) is in the Palestinian controlled Haram esh-Sharif.
The Jews never accepted Jesus as Messiah, so all of today's Jews are still awaiting a Messiah.
Satan will deceive the Jews. He will give them a good show, one so good so as to deceive the elect (Mat 24:24).
Note that the beast will call down fire (Rev 13:13) just like Elijah did (2 Kings 1:9). So the audience who will be ripe for believing in this false Messiah will see this 'miracle' and believe in him!
Rev 2:9 and 3:9 both mention the synagogue of Satan.
The mark of the beast is on the forehead and in the right hand. Now, "1 Corinthians 14:33
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."
If God is not the author of confusion, then because the mark of the beast is not given a lot of detail (other than its placement) it must have made sense to the early Christians. And since John was familiar with Jewish customs and traditions, what if the mark is something that the Jews would understand? Something the Jews were already doing, like wearing phylacteries (Mat 23:5) and carrying religious documents in their right hands?
quote:
Deuteronomy 6:8
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
The phylactery is worn on the brow and on the left arm, allowing the right arm to receive the Talmud or any other writing.
"As the Torah, however, was given from the Right Hand (“from his right hand went a fiery law for them”, Deut. XXXIII, 2)," see
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:QLgDEiFrmIgJ:www.yashanet.com/studies/revstudy/rev5eb.htm++site:www.yashanet.com+torah+%22right+hand%22&hl=en
Note that those faithful to God will ultimately have God's name in their phylacteries (Rev 22:4).
I also see "Babylon" as being Jerusalem.
1. The ***** of Babylon rides upon the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns (Rev 17:3-5).
2. The ***** of Babylon has committed fornication (Rev 17:2).
This could be a literal form of fornication, "Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband." (1 Cor 7:2). Thus, a woman without her husband is fornicating.
In this case, as she commits fornication with the kings of the earth (Rev 17:2), we must ask who are "the kings of the earth?"
Well, for one thing, they stood against Christ (Acts 4:26)
This could be spiritual fornication. Christ likened himself to a bridegroom (Mat 9:15) and so did John the Baptist (Joh 3:29). The bride is the faithful church/congregation. So an unfaithful church/congregation could be a fornicatress, spiritually standing against Christ.
3. The woman (***** of Babylon) is called that "great city" (Rev 17:18). Great city is mega polis "η πολισ η μεγαλη". In fact, in the phrase Babylon the Great (used in Rev 17:5), great is "mega".
4. She sits on many waters (Rev 17:1).
5. The waters are the sea of immigrants from diverse backgrounds and languages (Rev 17:15).
Thus the city does not have to be a coastal city: the waters represent people from various nationalities.
6. The blood of prophets and holy ones are in her (that ***** ) (Rev 18:24).
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets" (Luk 11:34).
If it seems to odd to think that Babylon means Jerusalem, consider that in this same book (Revelation), Jerusalem is likened to Sodom and Egypt (Rev 11:8)! Also note the use of the phrase "the great city."
7. "That great city" was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! (Rev 18:16).
The holy clothing mentioned in Exodus (Exo 28:2+) contains.
* fine linen consisting of purple and scarlet, among other colors (Exo 28:5).
* onyx stones (Exo 28:9) along with many other precious stones (Exo 28:17-20).
* ouches are sockets for setting the gems in (Exo 28:13). There are also chains of gold (verse 14).
If the Jews rebuild the temple for the third time, they will need to make the tabernacle: the tabernacle of God required fine linen made of blue and purple and scarlet (Exo 26:1 and Exo 26:31). and fifty taches of gold (Exo 26:6) and hooks of gold (Exo 26:32).
8. She (Babylon) is a strong merchant city. The merchants of the earth have all benefited from her (Rev 18:3). When she is destroyed, they weep over her (Rev 18:11)
When Jesus went to Jerusalem, he was not pleased with the merchants outside of the temple (Mat 21:10-13). See also (Luk 19:45-46) and (Mar 11:15-17).
9. The 10 horns (kings) of the beast will make war against the ***** (Rev 17:16).
10. A voice from heaven will call out God's people (Rev 18:8).
Consider that Lot was called out of Sodom before its destruction (Gen 19:16-22). God is merciful!
11. Her plagues come in one day (Rev 18:8). These plagues are death, mourning, and famine; and she (the city) shall be utterly burned with fire.
12. In one hour judgment comes (Rev 18:10).
13. Her smoke rises up for ever (Rev 19:3).
14. Although that "great city" is not rebuilt as she was (Rev 18:21), God still has plans for her:
15. A new Jerusalem, that "great city" (mega polis "την πολιν την μεγαλην") descends from God (Rev 21:10).
Posts: 39 | From: Cookeville, TN | Registered: May 2004
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MentorsRiddle
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posted
Well we are for sure living in a interesting time.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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rapturewatcher
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Member # 94
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posted
The Antichrist is a man who will rule the world just prior to the 2nd coming of Christ. He will be possessed by Satan and claim that he is God (2 Thess. 2:1-10). Jesus will destroy him when He returns at the 2nd coming (2 Thess 2:9, Rev. 19:20). Although this man is never actually called "the antichrist", he is referred to by many different names in the Bible. We use the term "the Antichrist" as a collective term to cover all the names.
Different Names for the Antichrist
"the little horn"--Dan. 7:8
"the prince that shall come"--Dan. 9:26
"the willful king"--Dan. 11:36
"the abomination of desolation" (Matt. 24:25) referring to the "desolator" (Dan. 9:27)
"the man of sin"--2 Thess. 2:3
"the son of perdition"--2 Thess. 2:3
"the lawless one"--2 Thess. 2:8
"the beast"--Dan. 7:11, Rev. 11:7, 19:19-20, 20:10
"the beast out of the sea"--Rev. 13:1-8
Will the Antichrist be a Jew or Gentile?
Some people believe that he will be a Gentile. He is the "beast out of the sea" (Rev 13:1) and the sea depicts the Gentile nations (Rev 17:15). He rises from the Roman Empire, since he is a prince of the people who destroyed Jerusalem (Dan 9:26). In Dan 7:7-8, we find that the "little horn" arises among the 10 horns, which are the 10 kings of the revived Roman Empire (Dan 2:40-43, 7:23-24, Rev 13:1, 17:12-17). Some believe that he will also come from Greece based upon Dan 8:23-26. Daniel 8 was fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes, but some Bible scholars find a future reference to the Antichrist in the last verses of the chapter.
Others believe he must be a Jew because he makes a covenant with Israel for 7 years (Dan 9:27). Daniel 11:36 says, "And he will show no regard for the gods of his fathers…" The Hebrew word for "gods" is "Elohim," which can also be translated "God." If you translate it "gods," he would be a Gentile. If you translate it "God," he would be a Jew. Bible scholars are divided in their opinions as to which is the correct translation.
What the Antichrist will do
In order to come to power, he will subdue 3 of the 10 kings in the future revived Roman Empire (Dan. 7:8,24). He will speak out against the Most High (God) and will wear down the saints of God (Dan. 7:25, Rev. 13:7). Daniel 7:25 tells us that he will try to make alterations in time and in law, indicating world-wide influence. Just prior to the 2nd Coming of Christ, he will confirm a 7 year covenant with Israel (Dan. 9:27). In the middle of the 7 years, he will stop the sacrifices in the Jewish temple, which will be rebuilt.
The Antichrist (beast out of the sea) will have a right-hand man called "the false prophet" (Rev. 19:20) who is called "the beast out of the earth." (Rev. 13:11). This false prophet will cause people all over the world to worship the Antichrist and will perform great signs, even making fire come down out of heaven to the earth (Rev. 13:12-13). Revelation 13:16-18 tells us he will cause everyone to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead and that no one will be able to buy or sell without the mark, the name of the beast or the number of his name. Those who take this mark will be cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 14:9-11). The Antichrist and the false prophet will be destroyed at the 2nd coming by Jesus and cast into the lake of fire (2 Thess. 2:8, Rev. 19:20).
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MentorsRiddle
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posted
interesting. But who might it be.
It says he will be of Roman decent, but if you want to get technical about it: take britian. it used to be occupied by rome, so it is possible that anyone from decent from just about anywhere from the eastern countries could possibley be of roman decent.
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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rapturewatcher
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posted
It is likely that he will rise out of the heartland of the old Roman Empire (EU)and that he will be of Italian descent.
This conclusion is based upon a statement in Daniel 9:26. In that passage the Antichrist is referred to as "the prince who is to come," and he is identified as being from the people who "will destroy the city and the sanctuary."
We know from history that both Jerusalem and the Jewish Temple were destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. Therefore, according to Daniel, the Antichrist must be of Roman heritage.
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MentorsRiddle
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posted
What an interesting world we live in.
Do you think the antichrist will come out of the EU?
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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KnowHim
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EU LEADERS PRAISE AGREEMENT ON CONSTITUTION
Voice of America News reports: “European Union leaders have praised the 25-nation bloc's landmark agreement on a constitution after months of negotiations.
Irish Prime Minister, Bertie Ahern says the agreement is a great achievement for Europe. British Prime Minister Tony Blair said a new Europe is taking shape with nations cooperating with each other.
The Vatican, however, expressed disappointment that the constitution did not include a reference to Europe's Christian roots. On Friday in Brussels, EU leaders agreed to the constitution, which is designed to streamline the bloc's decision-making. They still have to agree on who will replace Romano Prodi as president of the European Commission, the EU executive body. His term ends in October.
All member states still must ratify the constitution before it goes into effect…”
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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