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Topic: How many of you think the End TImes are at hand, and why?
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
I believe we're very close to Yeshua's (Jesus') second coming too for the same reasons that "helpforhomeschoolers" gave on the first page.
I'm also in agreement with what I've read from "BecauseHELives" (?is that the right name?) I've come to understand that Bible prophecy and the old testament Holy days (as commanded by God) are tied closely together. I'm not well enough versed to debate this, but I've been a member of a Messianic Congregation for five years now and it's been quite an eye opening experience! It's truly wonderful to Worship our Lord and Savior while learning the Jewish roots of our faith too ![[wiggle7]](graemlins/wiggle7.gif) (I Just Love these cute little icons!!!) BTW, I'm new here and this is my first post ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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HuggyBear
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Member # 2195
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2Peter 3:3 (MKJV) First, knowing this, that there will come in the last days scoffers walking according to their own lusts
2Peter 3:4 (MKJV) and saying, Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.
2Peter 3:5 (MKJV) For this is hidden from them by their willing it, that the heavens were of old, and the earth out of the water, and through water, being held together by the Word of God,
2Peter 3:6 (MKJV) through which the world that then was, being flooded by water, perished.
2Peter 3:7 (MKJV) But the present heavens and the earth being kept in store by the same Word, are being kept for fire until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
2Peter 3:8 (MKJV) But, beloved, let not this one thing be hidden from you, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Peter 3:9 (MKJV) The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness, but is long-suffering toward us, not purposing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
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(1Corinthians 13:13) Right now three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Posts: 32 | From: New Mexico | Registered: Oct 2003
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Miguel
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Member # 47
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posted
qt
So what should be concluded from all of this? Before coming to a dogmatic millennial perspective, the lone fact that so many well-intentioned and intelligent Christians believe so variously when it comes to Revelation 20 must give us pause. The Book of Revelation itself is probably the most curious and oft-debated piece of the canon. This ought to place us in a position of supreme caution when either accepting or dismissing another's interpretation. The best way in which to interpret the Word of God is to see what it has to say about itself. And if, in the final analysis, you are yet undecided, do not fear for no faith was ever built or broken on Revelation 20. ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
BLB
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
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HuggyBear
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Member # 2195
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posted
guidemeLord,
Here is a couple of passages from International Standard Bible Encyclopedia on the Book of Revelations.
III. Date and Unity of the Book.
1. Traditional Date Under Domitian:
Eusebius, in summing up the tradition of the Church on this subject, assigns John's exile to Patmos, and consequently the composition of the Apocalypse, to the latter part of the reign of Domitian (81-96 AD). Irenaeus (circa 180 AD) says of the book, “For it was seen, not a long time ago, but almost in our own generation, at the end of the reign of Domitian” (Adv. Haer., v. 30, 3). This testimony is confirmed by Clement of Alexandria (who speaks of “the tyrant”), Origen, and later writers. Epiphanius (4th century), indeed, puts (Haer., li. 12, 233) the exile to Patmos in the reign of Claudius (41-54 AD); but as, in the same sentence, he speaks of the apostle as 90 years of age, it is plain there is a strange blunder in the name of the emperor. The former date answers to the conditions of the book (decadence of the churches; widespread and severe persecution), and to the predilection of Domitian for this mode of banishment (compare Tacitus, History i. 2; Eusebius, Historia Ecclesiastica, III, 18).
2. The Nero-Theory:
This, accordingly, may be regarded as the traditional date of composition of the Apocalypse, though good writers, influenced partly by the desire to give time for the later composition of the Gospel, have signified a preference for an earlier date (e.g. Westcott, Salmon). It is by no means to be assumed, however, that the Apocalypse is the earlier production. The tendency of recent criticism, it will be seen immediately, is to revert to the traditional date (Bousset, etc.); but for a decade or two, through the prevalence of what may be called the “Nero-theory” of the book, the pendulum swung strongly in favor of its composition shortly after the death of Nero, and before the destruction of Jerusalem (held to be shown to be still standing by Rev 11), i.e. about 68-69 AD. This date was even held to be demonstrated beyond all question. Reuss may be taken as an example. According to him (Christian Theology of the Apostolic Age, I, 369 ff, English translation), apart from the ridiculous preconceptions of theologians, the Apocalypse is “the most simple, most transparent book that prophet ever penned.” “There is no other apostolical writing the chronology of which can be more exactly fixed.” “It was written before the destruction of Jerusalem, under the emperor Galba - that is to say, in the second half of the year 68 of our era.” He proceeds to discuss “the irrefutable proofs” of this. The proof, in brief, is found in the beast (not introduced till Rev 13) with seven heads, one of which has been mortally wounded, but is for the present healed (Rev_13:3). “This is the Roman empire, with its first 7 emperors, one of whom is killed, but is to live again as Antichrist” (compare Rev_17:10 f). The key to the whole book is said to be given in Rev_13:18, where the number of the beast is declared to be 666. Applying the method of numerical values (the Jewish Gematria), this number is found to correspond with the name “Nero Caesar” in Hebrew letters (omitting the yodh, the Hebrew letter “y”). Nero then is the 5th head that is to live again; an interpretation confirmed by rumors prevalent at that time that Nero was not really dead, but only hidden, and was soon to return to claim his throne. As if to make assurance doubly sure, it is found that by dropping the final “n” in “Neron,” the number becomes 616 - a number which Irenaeus in his comments on the subject (v. 30, 1) tells us was actually found in some ancient copies. The meaning therefore is thought to be clear. Writing under the emperor Galba, the 6th emperor (reckoning from Augustus), the author anticipates, after a short reign of a 7th emperor (Rev_17:10), the return of the Antichrist Nero - an 8th, but of the 7, with whom is to come the end. Jerusalem is to be miraculously preserved (Rev 11), but Rome is to perish. This is to happen within the space of 3 1/2 years. “The final catastrophe, which was to destroy the city and empire, was to take place in three years and a half.... The writer knows ... that Rome will in three years and a half perish finally, never to rise again.” It does not matter for this theory that not one of the things predicted happened - that every anticipation was falsified. Nero did not return; Jerusalem was not saved; Rome did not perish; 3 1/2 years did not see the end of all things. Yet the Christian-church, though the failure of every one of these predictions had been decisively demonstrated, received the book as of divine inspiration, apparently without the least idea that such things had been intended (see the form of theory in Renan, with a keen criticism in Salmon's Introduction to the New Testament, lecture xiv).
3. Composite Hypotheses - Babylonian Theory:
What is to be said with reference to this “Nero-theory” belongs to subsequent sections: meanwhile it is to be observed that, while portions of theory are retained, significant changes have since taken place in the view entertained of the book as a whole, and with this of the date to be assigned to it. First, after 1882, came a flood of disintegrating hypotheses, based on the idea that the Apocalypse was not a unity, but was either a working up of one or more Jewish apocalypses by Christian hands, or at least incorporated fragments of such apocalypses (Uslter, Vischer, Weizsacker, Weyland, Pfieiderer, Spitta, etc.). Harnack lent his influential support to the form of this theory advocated by Vischer, and for a time the idea had vogue. Very soon, however, it fell into discredit through its own excesses (for details on the different views, see Bousset, or Moffatt's Introduction to the New Testament, 489 ff), and through increasing appreciation of the internal evidence for the unity of the book. Gunkel, in his Schopfung und Chaos (1895), started another line of criticism in his derivation of the conceptions of the book, not from Jewish apocalypse, but from Babylonian mythology. He assailed with sharp criticism the “contemporary history” school of interpretation (the “Nero-theory” above), and declared its “bankruptcy.” The number of the beast, with him, found its solution, not in Nero, but in the Hebrew name for the primeval chaos. This theory, too, has failed in general acceptance, though elements in it are adopted by most recent interpreters. The modified view most in favor now is that the Apocalypse is, indeed, the work of a Christian writer of the end of the 1st century, but embodies certain sections borrowed from Jewish apocalypse (as Rev_7:1-8, the 144,000; Rev 11, measuring of the temple and the two witnesses; especially Rev 12, the woman and red dragon - this, in turn, reminiscent of Babylonian mythology). These supposed Jewish sections are, however, without real support in anything that is known, and the symbolism admits as easily of a Christian interpretation as any other part of the book. We are left, therefore, as before, with the book as a unity, and the tide of opinion flows back to the age of Domitian as the time of its origin. Moffatt (connecting it mistakenly, as it seems to us, with Domitian's emphasis on the imperial cult, but giving also other reasons) goes so far as to say that “any earlier date for the book is hardly possible” (Expository Greek Testament, V, 317). The list of authorities for the Domitianie date may be seen in Moffatt, Introduction, 508.
Compare this article with the one cited by Greg Kiser of the preteristarchive(http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/kiser-greg_p_02.html)
Matthew 7:15 (MKJV) Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
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(1Corinthians 13:13) Right now three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Posts: 32 | From: New Mexico | Registered: Oct 2003
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HuggyBear
Advanced Member
Member # 2195
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posted
guidemeLord,
Here is the first scriptures that are cited on the web page that you presented in your arguement about the 1000 years already being in the past.
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/kiser-greg_p_04.html
1. Evidence that the 1000 years must fall within the time scope of all prophecy in Revelation and thus in the first century AD ( Luke 21:20-22 ; Revelation 1:1-3; 22:6,7,10,12,20).
Luk 21:20 And when you see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that its destruction has come.
Luke 21:21 (MKJV) And let those in Judea flee to the mountains. And those in its midst, let them go out. And those in the open spaces, let them not go into her.
Luke 21:22 (MKJV) For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
The rest of the passage goes on to say:
Luke 21:23 (MKJV) But woe to those who are with child, and to those suckling in those days! For there shall be great distress in the land and wrath on this people.
Luk 21:24 (MKJV) And they shall fall by the sword's edge. And shall be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the nations until the times of the nations is fulfilled.
Luke 21:25 (MKJV) And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars. And on the earth will be anxiety of nations with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luke 21:26 (MKJV) men fainting from fear, and expecting those things which have come on the earth. For the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
Luke 21:27 (MKJV) And then they shall see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luke 21:28 (MKJV) And when these things begin to happen, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near.
The context of this passage isn't talking about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, as in Matthew 24:15, or in Mark 13:14. Our Lord said in this passage:
Luke 21:27 (MKJV) And then they shall see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. This hasn't happened, or else, there would have certainly been many witnesses to our Lord's return.
Even more evidence against a peterist viewpoint.
Revelation 21:1 (MKJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. And the sea no longer is.
Has anybody been to the ocean in the past 1900 years?
Revelation 21:2 (MKJV) And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her Husband.
Revelation 21:3 (MKJV) And I heard a great voice out of Heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.
John Gill (1697 - 1771) on Revelation 21:3:
Revelation 21:3 - And I heard a great voice out of heaven,.... Either of an angel, or rather of Christ, or God himself; since the Alexandrian copy and Vulgate Latin version read, "out of the throne",
saying, behold the tabernacle of God is with men; in allusion to the tabernacle being with the Israelites, and the "Shechinah", or divine Majesty, being in the midst of them, and as an accomplishment of the promise in Ezekiel 37:27 in the fullest sense of it; and designs something distinct from the spiritual presence of Christ in his church, as his tabernacle and temple, and in the hearts of his people; and from the heavenly glory, or ultimate state of happiness, in which they will be "with him", and that not as in a tabernacle, but as in a city, which has foundations: the phrase seems to denote the personal presence of Christ with his saints in human nature, like, though different from, that in the time of his humiliation; then he dwelt or tabernacled with men on earth, but it was in the form of a servant; but now he will appear in a glorious body, and indeed in all his personal glory, and reign among them as their King:
and he will dwell with them ; in person and not by his Spirit, or by faith, as before, nor as a wayfaring man only for a night; but he will dwell with them for the space of a thousand years, and after that for ever : Christ and his church will now be come together as husband and wife:
and they shall be his people; that is, they shall appear to be his covenant people, that will be out of all doubt; this is made manifest in some measure in the effectual calling; but it does not yet appear neither to the saints themselves, nor to others, what they are, and shall be, but now it will be evident and unquestionable.
And God himself shall be with them; the "Immanuel", God with us; not by his Spirit, as he was after his ascension to heaven, and since is; but in person, he himself will descend from heaven, when his church, the new Jerusalem does; the Lord their God will come in person with all the saints, and will be King over all the earth.
And be their God, as Thomas styles him, my Lord, and my God, John 20:28. The covenant of grace, with all its blessings and promises, are in him, and now will it have its full accomplishment, and the saints be in a state inexpressibly happy; see Psalms 144:15.
Revelation 21:4 (MKJV) And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. And there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out, nor will there be any more pain; for the first things passed away.
Revelation 21:4 kinda lays it out. Have you cried recently? Have you heard about the death in the streets of this nation and others? Did you feel pain recently?
Revelation 20:2 (MKJV) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
Revelation 20:3 (MKJV) And he cast him into the abyss and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled. And after that he must be loosed a little time.
If the thousand years where Satan was bound took place already in the first century, then how is it that Satan has been loosed for 1900 years, when it says here he must be loosed for "a little time". How can you rationally say that "a little time" is going to be twice as long as Satan was supposed to have been bound?
Matthew 24:4 (MKJV) And Jesus answered and said to them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many will come in My name, saying, I am Christ, and will deceive many.
Matthew 24:6 (MKJV) And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled, for all these things must occur; but the end is not yet.
Matthew 24:7 (MKJV) For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines and pestilences and earthquakes in different places.
Matthew 24:8 (MKJV) All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Matthew 24:9 (MKJV) Then they will deliver you up to be afflicted and will kill you. And you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake.
Matthew 24:10 (MKJV) And then many will be offended, and will betray one another, and will hate one another.
Matthew 24:11 (MKJV) And many false prophets will rise and deceive many.
Matthew 24:12 (MKJV) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many will become cold.
Matthew 24:13 (MKJV) But he who endures to the end, the same shall be kept safe.
Matthew 24:14 (MKJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be proclaimed in all the world as a witness to all nations. And then the end shall come.
Does any of this relate to this age? Most of it does. Matthew 24:14 our Lord spells out that the gospel will be spread throughout all the world. In the first century, no one thought that there was much of anything beyond Spain. But Jesus knew that there was much more. Today we have TBN transmitting into China and the Polynesian Islands. The gospel is being spread throughout the world today.
Mark 13:10 (MKJV) And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations.
Strong's translation of "all" from e-Sword
G3956
πᾶς
pas
pas
Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
Strong's translation of "nations" from e-Sword:
G1484
ἔθνος
ethnos
eth'-nos
Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.
In the first century, not all nations had heard the gospel. Even though his contemporaries knew only of the Roman nations, our Lord knew that there was much more out there.
There is a work, I believe, by Adam Clarke(The Christian Prophet and his Work), that lays out an explanation into prophesy that you might find illuminating. There is also a work in the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia that is a good read about prophesy.
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(1Corinthians 13:13) Right now three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Posts: 32 | From: New Mexico | Registered: Oct 2003
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
Revelation 11:2 can not be referring to he same time period, as the time of the Gentiles in LK 21:24 (until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
). Revelation 11 goes on to say that witness will testify and then be slain by the beast out of the bottomless pit and then be raised from the dead .
REV 11:8 And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
REV 11:9 And they of the people and kindred’s and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Who do you say these 2 witness are? When did this take place?
“Times of the Gentiles” started when the Gospel began to be preached to the Gentiles. The Gentiles were excluded from the Gospel till that point.
When the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, Yahweh will again begin to deal only with the House of Israel.
The 42 months you refer to are still to come in the future. During the time of the rule of the antichrist.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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guidemeLord
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Member # 2182
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Hey Again guidemeLord,
LK 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Isreal was trodden down by the Gentiles for
1900 years
this has only, in our life time been fullied. 1948 or 1967(see post on page one this topic.)
the desert blooms now for the first time in recorded history as Isaiah prophecied.
this one fulfillment, total distroyes preterist theory.
So you are saying that it was 1900 years of trodding?
Revelation 11:2 says: "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty two months"
Which is it? 42 months or 1900 years?
I will go with the Scriptural 42 months.
This took place in 67-70 AD. The prophecy was indeed fulfilled just as it should be but I still don't see how that proves anything other than the TRUTH of preterism.
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I had never experienced true fellowship with God until I stopped waiting and started living~ Disclaimer: Not a Zionist!
gmL
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Hey Again guidemeLord,
LK 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Isreal was trodden down by the Gentiles for
1900 years
this has only, in our life time been fullied. 1948 or 1967(see post on page one this topic.)
the desert blooms now for the first time in recorded history as Isaiah prophecied.
this one fulfillment, total distroyes preterist theory.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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HuggyBear
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Member # 2195
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posted
Dear guidemeLord,
As Christians, we glorify the truth.
John 1:17 For the Law came through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
We seek the truth out of the Holy Spirit's calling to us. It is from this calling that we must steadfastly seek the truth, no matter how much it may hurt. It is our calling, and for those that are on fire for the Lord, it is a burning desire to seek out the truth, and to trust in it.
From childhood we are called to the truth, while the deceiver, Satan, would have us do otherwise. He wants us to believe his lies to get an upperhand on us.
That is why God sent his only Son. To break the bondage that Satan had hold on us in his lies. To bring us the truth.
John 8:32 (MKJV) And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 14:6 (MKJV) Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me.
The truth is what sets Christianity apart from all other religions. The rest of the world's religions may say that they have the truth, but without Jesus Christ, their religion is but a shadow of the truth.
From a post by guidemeLord:
"He is stating it as it is in the verse not specifying whether he is a futurist, historicist, or preterist. I write overviews for Bible Studies and do this and I certainly don't think the coming is Future."
Funk and Wagnall's Standard Desk Dictionary(1976) defines "stating" as 1. to set forth explicitly in speech or writing; assert;declare. 2. To fix;determine ;settle.
It also defines commentary as 1. A series of illustrative or explanatory notes. 2. A comment.
Adam's Clarke's commentary on 1st Thessalonians 14:16-17, by your statement("He is stating ...), asserts, declares, fixes, determines and settles the matter of the truth of the scripture, and even illustrates it out.
The truth of the prophesies is right there, held by a man whose commentary you introduced into the discussion.
I too, have said my prayers for you, hoping that the Lord will guide you to the truth.
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(1Corinthians 13:13) Right now three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Posts: 32 | From: New Mexico | Registered: Oct 2003
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guidemeLord
Community Member
Member # 2182
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HuggyBear:
guidemeLord
1Thessalonias 4:16 (MKJV) For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.
1Thessalonians 4:17 (MKJV) Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.
Adam Clarke(1715-1832) on 1Thessonalonians 14:16(from e-sword):
1Th 4:16 -
The Lord himself - That is: Jesus Christ shall descend from heaven; shall descend in like manner as he was seen by his disciples to ascend, i.e. in his human form, but now infinitely more glorious; for thousands of thousands shall minister unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand shall stand before him; for the Son of man shall come on the throne of his glory: but who may abide the day of his coming, or stand when he appeareth?
With a shout - Or order, εν κελευσματι· and probably in these words: Arise, ye dead, and come to judgment; which order shall be repeated by the archangel, who shall accompany it with the sound of the trump of God, whose great and terrible blasts, like those on mount Sinai, sounding louder and louder, shall shake both the heavens and the earth!
Observe the order of this terribly glorious day:
1. Jesus, in all the dignity and splendor of his eternal majesty, shall descend from heaven to the mid region, what the apostle calls the air, somewhere within the earth’s atmosphere.
2. Then the κελευσμα, shout or order, shall be given for the dead to arise.
3. Next the archangel, as the herald of Christ, shall repeat the order, Arise, ye dead, and come to judgment!
4. When all the dead in Christ are raised, then the trumpet shall sound, as the signal for them all to flock together to the throne of Christ. It was by the sound of the trumpet that the solemn assemblies, under the law, were convoked; and to such convocations there appears to be here an allusion.
5. When the dead in Christ are raised, their vile bodies being made like unto his glorious body, then,
6. Those who are alive shall be changed, and made immortal.
7. These shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.
8. We may suppose that the judgment will now be set, and the books opened, and the dead judged out of the things written in those books.
9. The eternal states of quick and dead being thus determined, then all who shall be found to have made a covenant with him by sacrifice, and to have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb, shall be taken to his eternal glory, and be for ever with the Lord. What an inexpressibly terrific glory will then be exhibited! I forbear to call in here the descriptions which men of a poetic turn have made of this terrible scene, because I cannot trust to their correctness; and it is a subject which we should speak of and contemplate as nearly as possible in the words of Scripture.
In his first words, the word "shall" appears. If it had already happened, he would have said "had".
http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/c/clarke-adam_methodist.html
He is stating it as it is in the verse not specifying whether he is a futurist, historicist, or preterist. I write overviews for Bible Studies and do this and I certainly don't think the coming is Future. ![[angel3]](graemlins/angel3.gif)
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I had never experienced true fellowship with God until I stopped waiting and started living~ Disclaimer: Not a Zionist!
gmL
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guidemeLord
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by MentorsRiddle:
Just please ansewer me this then: When did the rapture take place? you have not ansewered that yet. And no matter what you say you know you can't because it hasn't happened yet. and the Tribulation will occur after the Rapture.
The rapture is real and is not fake, and is talked about. It hasn't happened yet. it is still to come.
In my opinion that view of revelation is not correct because that gives people the illusion that they have as long as they want to get right with the lord, when they truley do not. Jesus could return tonight or tommorow.
I don't think the "rapture" you are talking about is even described in the Scriptures. I even had a hard time with that when I WAS a futurist like yourself..
Answer me this: What WOULD you do if you found out that Jesus fulfilled all the New Testament and you are continually in the presence of God never to experience seperation (eternal death) from Him?
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I had never experienced true fellowship with God until I stopped waiting and started living~ Disclaimer: Not a Zionist!
gmL
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MentorsRiddle
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posted
Just please ansewer me this then: When did the rapture take place? you have not ansewered that yet. And no matter what you say you know you can't because it hasn't happened yet. and the Tribulation will occur after the Rapture.
The rapture is real and is not fake, and is talked about. It hasn't happened yet. it is still to come.
In my opinion that view of revelation is not correct because that gives people the illusion that they have as long as they want to get right with the lord, when they truley do not. Jesus could return tonight or tommorow.
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
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guidemeLord
Community Member
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Hello guidemeLord,
I went to the web link, I have studied preterist enough in the past to know preteristism is out of harmony with the Scriptures.
I will pray for you.
Study the Feast, you will have a better understanding of the Christian hope.
My understanding is that the Christian hope lies in Salvation through Jesus Christ... Why then should you tell me that preterism is not in "harmony" with the scriptures?
Thank you for praying for me and I also will pray that your eyes be opened to the oneness you can have by knowing that Jesus TRULY is within you and has overcome death and hell. If Jesus did not come back then according to scripture we are still waiting to see if the High Priest comes back out and if the blood sacrifice was good enough. The Bible tells us that Jesus' blood was the PERFECT sacrifice and accepted by God thus our King, Saviour, and High Priest (Jesus) has returned and reigns!
I had never experienced as much of God as when I stopped waiting and started living~
gmL
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I had never experienced true fellowship with God until I stopped waiting and started living~ Disclaimer: Not a Zionist!
gmL
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becauseHElives
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posted
Hello guidemeLord,
I went to the web link, I have studied preterist enough in the past to know preteristism is out of harmony with the Scriptures.
I will pray for you.
Study the Feast, you will have a better understanding of the Christian hope.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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HuggyBear
Advanced Member
Member # 2195
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posted
guidemeLord
1Thessalonias 4:16 (MKJV) For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.
1Thessalonians 4:17 (MKJV) Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.
Adam Clarke(1715-1832) on 1Thessonalonians 14:16(from e-sword):
1Th 4:16 -
The Lord himself - That is: Jesus Christ shall descend from heaven; shall descend in like manner as he was seen by his disciples to ascend, i.e. in his human form, but now infinitely more glorious; for thousands of thousands shall minister unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand shall stand before him; for the Son of man shall come on the throne of his glory: but who may abide the day of his coming, or stand when he appeareth?
With a shout - Or order, εν κελευσματι· and probably in these words: Arise, ye dead, and come to judgment; which order shall be repeated by the archangel, who shall accompany it with the sound of the trump of God, whose great and terrible blasts, like those on mount Sinai, sounding louder and louder, shall shake both the heavens and the earth!
Observe the order of this terribly glorious day:
1. Jesus, in all the dignity and splendor of his eternal majesty, shall descend from heaven to the mid region, what the apostle calls the air, somewhere within the earth’s atmosphere.
2. Then the κελευσμα, shout or order, shall be given for the dead to arise.
3. Next the archangel, as the herald of Christ, shall repeat the order, Arise, ye dead, and come to judgment!
4. When all the dead in Christ are raised, then the trumpet shall sound, as the signal for them all to flock together to the throne of Christ. It was by the sound of the trumpet that the solemn assemblies, under the law, were convoked; and to such convocations there appears to be here an allusion.
5. When the dead in Christ are raised, their vile bodies being made like unto his glorious body, then,
6. Those who are alive shall be changed, and made immortal.
7. These shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.
8. We may suppose that the judgment will now be set, and the books opened, and the dead judged out of the things written in those books.
9. The eternal states of quick and dead being thus determined, then all who shall be found to have made a covenant with him by sacrifice, and to have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb, shall be taken to his eternal glory, and be for ever with the Lord. What an inexpressibly terrific glory will then be exhibited! I forbear to call in here the descriptions which men of a poetic turn have made of this terrible scene, because I cannot trust to their correctness; and it is a subject which we should speak of and contemplate as nearly as possible in the words of Scripture.
In his first words, the word "shall" appears. If it had already happened, he would have said "had".
http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/c/clarke-adam_methodist.html
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(1Corinthians 13:13) Right now three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
MT 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
MK 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
LK 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
I do not know the length of a generation, I have read where some say scholars say a generation is
40 years, 70 years, 80 years, or 120 years,
What we do know though is Yashua was referring to the generation that saw Israel become a nation, Israel as a nation was none existence since the time after the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.
Israel was restored to statehood on May 14, 1948, some have further suggested that the vine was the symbol for Israel, and that the fig tree refers to the city of Jerusalem. Around this conjecture, some suggest that June 6, 1967, is the key year when, as a result of the Six Day War, the Old City of Jerusalem returned to Israeli control.
Worse case scenario 120 plus 1967 equals the year 2087
I think the Rapture will be on a Feast of Trumpets (the next Feast to be fulfilled in the order that Yahweh give them, the only Feast no man knows the day.)
The Feast in order Yahweh gave them to Israel
1. Feast Passover (fulfilled – Yashua’s death)
2. Feast Unleavened Bread (fulfilled – Yashua’s burial)
3. Feast First Fruits (fulfilled – Yashua’s resurrection)
4. Feast Pentecost (fulfilled – when Yashua sent the Holy Spirit)
5. Feast of Trumpets ( not fulfilled yet) rapture of the Church
6. Day of Atonement (not fulfilled yet) Israel discovers Yashua
7. Feast of Tabernacles ( not fulfilled yet) the 1000 year reign of Messiah, Yahweh will finally dwell with His people in all His fullness.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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guidemeLord
Community Member
Member # 2182
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HuggyBear:
guidemeLord,
I beleive this is the most obvious passage that relates to the Rapture.
Matthew(MKJV) 24:29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
This verse is a direct quote of figurative passages which declared impending judgment in past biblical history (Is. 13:9-10; Is. 34:4; Ez. 32: 7-8; Joel 2:20 which is quoted in Acts 2:20; Amos 8:9, ). Consistent interpretation would require the expectation of fulfillment consistent with the quoted passages, i.e., a widespread destruction such as what occurred in Jerusalem in A.D. 70.
quote:
Originally posted by HuggyBear:
Matthew 24:30(MKJV) And then the sign of the Son of Man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:31(MKJV) And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
And again,
Adam Clarke (1837)
"Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man. The plain meaning of this is, that the destruction of Jerusalem will be such a remarkable instance of divine vengeance, such a signal manifestation of Christ's power and glory, that all the Jewish tribes shall mourn, and many will, in consequence of the manifestation of God, be led to acknowledge Christ and his religion. By.. of the land, in the text, is evidently meant here, as in several other places, the land of Judea and its tribes, either its then inhabitants, or the Jewish people wherever found." (On Matt 24:30)
quote:
Originally posted by HuggyBear:
Revelation 14:18 (MKJV) And another angel came out from the altar, who had authority over fire. And he spoke with a great cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in your sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.
Matthew 23-24
Preaching to all the world, 24:14
Message of judgment, 23:34-35
Filling the measure of sin, 23:32
Judgment in Jesus' generation, 23:34; 24:34
Compared with:
Revelation 14
Preaching to all the world, 14:6
Message of judgment, 14:7
Harvest is fully ripe, 14:15f
The hour of his judgment has come, 14:7
They are essentially the same and it stands to reason that if I believe Matt. 24 is fulfilled then so has Revelation.
quote:
Originally posted by HuggyBear:
As for the Thousand Year reign, ....
Revelations 20:1 (MKJV) And I saw an angel come down from Heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 (MKJV) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
Rev 20:3 (MKJV) And he cast him into the abyss and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled.
Jesus come quickly.
As for the 1000 years... I know where it is explained and I DO believe it took place right after the second coming of our Lord!
Here are some reasons why: Why the thousand years is past.
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I had never experienced true fellowship with God until I stopped waiting and started living~ Disclaimer: Not a Zionist!
gmL
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HuggyBear
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posted
guidemeLord,
I beleive this is the most obvious passage that relates to the Rapture.
Matthew(MKJV) 24:29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
Matthew 24:30(MKJV) And then the sign of the Son of Man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:31(MKJV) And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
And again,
Revelation 14:18 (MKJV) And another angel came out from the altar, who had authority over fire. And he spoke with a great cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in your sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.
As for the Thousand Year reign, ....
Revelations 20:1 (MKJV) And I saw an angel come down from Heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 (MKJV) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
Rev 20:3 (MKJV) And he cast him into the abyss and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled.
Jesus come quickly.
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(1Corinthians 13:13) Right now three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
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posted
Yes I am saved, and I would wait for ever for Christ. But none the less not just in Rev. does it talk about the end of days, Jesus himself made a reference to the End of Days, that means that there will be an end of the world. I mean I don't see how that could be interpreted any other way. And Jesus has not set his kingdom up yet, The rapture hasn't taken place yet. These things will happen, it says it in the bible.
There was two men walking in a field, and one vanished and the other remained
^
That is talking about the rapture.
It will come and it will happen.
The bible says it will. and I will always put my faith in that first.
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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guidemeLord
Community Member
Member # 2182
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by MentorsRiddle:
You will have to be more spacific.
What is it you mean?
I guess what I am trying to say is this:
The promises to christians made by Jesus Christ are fulfilled in His second coming. By saying that His coming is still future... Then none of us can claim to also take part freely of the living water, for example. Redemption is another thing that is promised in Christ's return. Are you redeemed? I surely am! Christ is MY King and forever will be. I will see Him when I die, but till then I have Him right here on earth in my Heart...
What is left for Christ to do?
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I had never experienced true fellowship with God until I stopped waiting and started living~ Disclaimer: Not a Zionist!
gmL
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MentorsRiddle
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posted
You will have to be more spacific.
What is it you mean?
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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guidemeLord
Community Member
Member # 2182
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by MentorsRiddle:
Oh yea also, The mark of the beast has not occured as of yet either.
Oh but it surely DID! Have you studied the History of the Mediteranean between Christ's birth and the turn of the century?
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I had never experienced true fellowship with God until I stopped waiting and started living~ Disclaimer: Not a Zionist!
gmL
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guidemeLord
Community Member
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by MentorsRiddle:
Yes but christ also did say that he would place his kingdom upon earth to reign for 1000 years. And it also talks of the Rapture. Both of these have not occured yet.
Unless you have information I don't there is no passage in the Bible that says Christ will return to reign on earth for ANY amount of time. Also, rapture is a Man-made theory which has little to do with actual scripture.
gmL
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I had never experienced true fellowship with God until I stopped waiting and started living~ Disclaimer: Not a Zionist!
gmL
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MentorsRiddle
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posted
Oh yea also, The mark of the beast has not occured as of yet either.
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
Yes but christ also did say that he would place his kingdom upon earth to reign for 1000 years. And it also talks of the Rapture. Both of these have not occured yet.
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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guidemeLord
Community Member
Member # 2182
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by MentorsRiddle:
Yes but what about, the rise of the anti-christ? that hasn't occured as of yet, nor the rebuilding of the Temple, Rome has not yet arisen again, nor has the world been united as one yet, nor has there been a one world currency yet, nor has god distoryed enemys comming to isreal
You will not find any of these things mentioned in the Bible. If you list the prophecies one by one you will see that the entire Old Testament has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ. His death on the cross, His ministry, His return... all fulfilled within the disciples generation. Even top scholars will tell you that YES those prophecies were fulfilled but only a PARTIAL fulfillment...I believe otherwise.
Take Daniel 9 for example. Most people will agree on certain points being past... such as Jesus' death on the cross as foretold at the end of the chapter but then we have people who insist that although the prophecy is past it also has future fulfillment. I see no evidence of this and therefore cannot endorse that type of eschatological theology.
Hope that helps!
gmL
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I had never experienced true fellowship with God until I stopped waiting and started living~ Disclaimer: Not a Zionist!
gmL
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MentorsRiddle
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posted
Yes but what about, the rise of the anti-christ? that hasn't occured as of yet, nor the rebuilding of the Temple, Rome has not yet arisen again, nor has the world been united as one yet, nor has there been a one world currency yet, nor has god distoryed enemys comming to isreal
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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guidemeLord
Community Member
Member # 2182
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by MentorsRiddle:
Hi my name is Matthew, and I am new to your message boards. I would like to know if and why you think the end times will be seen by this generation, and your opinions on it.
Hi,
I too am new here. I believe Jesus was talking to the generation that saw His return...
Therefore, I would say that it is impossible for His coming to be in today's generation.
gmL
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I had never experienced true fellowship with God until I stopped waiting and started living~ Disclaimer: Not a Zionist!
gmL
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Goldman01
Advanced Member
Member # 1955
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posted
I can't say for sure when, but I do know that we are not promised tomorrow! So, we all need to be "livin' like there's no tomorrow!" Better safe than sorry! ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
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Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
I blieve that I comandeered this from Kindgo;To whom I send Blessings and Prayers; I believe that it clearly shows that these are the End Times:
Signs of the Times
God never pours out His wrath without warning because "He does not wish that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9). Jesus said that when we see all these signs come together, He will be "right at the door," ready to return (Matthew 24: 33). God is warning, and Jesus is at the gates of Heaven waiting for His Father's command.
Are you ready?
I. Signs In Nature
(Matthew 24:7; Mark 13: 8; and Luke 21:11)
1) Famine
2) Earthquakes
3) Plagues
4) Signs in the Heavens
(Unusual weather, new discoveries in space, UFO's, etc.)
II. Signs In Society
(Matthew 24:12,37-39 & 2 Timothy 3:1-4)
1) Lawlessness
2) Violence
3) Immorality
4) Greed
5) Selfishness
6) Hedonism
7) Rebellion
8) Despair
III. Spiritual Signs
1) Negative
a) False christs & Prophets and their cultic groups (Matthew 24:5,11,2-4; Mark 13:6,21-22; and Luke 21:8).
b) Apostasy in the professing church (2 Thessalonians 2:3; and 2 Timothy 3:5, 4:3-4).
c) Widespread heresy in the church (2 Timothy 4:1-4).
d) Movement toward a one world religion (Revelation 17).
e) Persecution of true believers (Matthew 24:9-10; Mark 13:9,11-13; and Luke 21:12-19).
f) Outbreak of demonic and occult activity (1 Timothy 4:1).
2) Positive
a) Outpouring of the Holy Spirit (Joel 2:28-29).
b) Revival of Davidic worship (1 Chronicles 16:1-39; Psalm 150; and Amos 9:11).
c) Worldwide evangelism (Matthew 24:14 and Mark 13:10).
d) Understanding of Bible prophecy (Daniel 12:4,8-9).
IV. World Political Signs
1) Re-establishment of Israel. (Ezekiel 36:22 - 37:1-2; Zechariah 12:1-6; Matthew 24:32-34; Mark 13:28- 30; and Luke 21:29-31).
2) Arab hostility toward Israel (Ezekiel 35:1 - 36:7).
3) Russia as a menacing power to Israel (Ezekiel 38:1 - 39:16).
4) Asian nations capable of fielding an army of 200 million (Revelation 9:15-16 and 16:12).
5) Wars and rumors of wars (Matthew 24:6-7; Mark 13:7-8; and Luke 21:10).
6) Kingdom against kingdom -- that is, civil wars and ethnic wars (Matthew 24:7; Mark 13:8; and Luke 21:10).
7) Reunification of Europe (Daniel 2:41-44, 7:8, 24-25, and 9:26).
8) Movement toward a one world economy (Revelation 18).
V. Technological Signs
1) Nuclear weapons.
(Matthew 24:22; Luke 21: 25-26; and Revelation 6:8, 8:7 and 16: 2-).
2) Television and satellite transmission (Revelation 11:3-12).
3) Robotics (Revelation 13:14-15).
4) Computer and laser technology (Revelation 13:16-18).
5) High speed transportation (Daniel 12:4).
VI. The Accelerator Sign
1) Population explosion (Revelation 9: 15-16 and 16:12).
2) Increase in knowledge (Daniel 12:4).
3) Increase in violence (Matthew 24:12).
4) Increase in transportation (Daniel 12:4).
5) Rapid disintegration of society (1 Timothy 3:1-4).
6) Signs in general to be like birth pangs' that is, increasing in frequency and intensity (Matthew 24:8).
VII. Signs In Israel
1) Re-gathering of the people (Isaiah 11:10-12 and Ezekiel 37:1-12).
2) Re-establishment of the state (Isaiah 66:7-8; Zechariah 12:1-6; and Matthew 24:32-35).
3) Reclamation of the land (Isaiah 35:1-2,7 and Ezekiel 36:34-35).
4) Revival of the language (Zephaniah 3:9).
5) Resurgence of the military (Zechariah 12:6)
6) Refocusing of world politics (Zechariah 12:2-3).
7) Reoccupation of Jerusalem (Zechariah 12:2-6).
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MentorsRiddle
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posted
Cam. it is hard to think that the end is near but that doesn't mean we should prepare for it as if it was happening tommorow. I pray every night, and I know my father and God in heaven will forgive me.
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Cameron
Advanced Member
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posted
Well, I don't think it'll happen in my lifetime, 'cause nothing exciting ever happens to me.
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Why do we care what people think of us when we know what God thinks of us?
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Homebound
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Member # 1699
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posted
I think we're getting close, too - Here are my reasons for thinking this way:
(1) The tremendous increase in knowledge over the last 50 years (mentioned in Revelation, I believe), which is doubling now at an extremely quick rate. What hasn't mankind thought of, invented, built, done to ourselves, etc? And now the "creation" is taking over the job of the "Creator" (cloning).
(2) I heard recently that the gospel message has now either reached every culture on earth or is very close.
(3) I understand many New Age guru/mystic-type people are predicting a very soon total transformation of the earth. They may very well be right about that one - though their enlightenment may not be quite what they have in mind.
(4) Don't know if anyone else feels this way, but more and more I keep feeling like I need to "be prepared," make sure I have all the spiritual armor on, and get as close to Christ as possible.
(1 Peter 4:7 - The end of all things is near. Therefore, be clear-minded and self-controlled so that you can pray.)
Posts: 40 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2003
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
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posted
Amen, Jesus is truley Great!
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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DaughterAnn
Advanced Member
Member # 2055
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posted
Yep, I do know what you mean. I'm very much looking forward to it as well. ![[youpi]](graemlins/youpi.gif)
I'm also very happy that the Lord is not slack as we consider slackness. I appreciate His patient mercy toward me by waiting a little while.
2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Even so, Come Lord Jesus. (Rev 22:20)
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DaughterAnn †
"Isaiah 6:
5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts."
Posts: 60 | From: Lubbock, Texas | Registered: Sep 2003
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
Those were very interesting and exciting words.
The reason I am so interested in the end is because I can't wait to be with Christ...you know what I mean?
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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DaughterAnn
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Member # 2055
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posted
You know, I agree with you that things will most likely get much worse than even now.
As far as how much time we have left... I would not even fathom a guess. I have heard theories about the Jewish calendar and how some people believe Jesus will return around the Feast of Trumpets (which is in about a week or so from now). Jewish calendar reaches the year 6000 in our year 2240. That gives us 237 more years. But, I've also seen theories that He will return in the year 2029. (Jesus was crucified in the year 29 A.D., so 2029 is the end of the 2000th year, and He will return on the "3rd day".)
And one more theory. Not to alarm you, but a Prophesy teacher I heard thinks it will be this October. (got that info 2nd hand, so no reference will be given)
The bottom line is, we're all looking for His coming, as we should be. But we will not know the time. That was promised to us. Regardless when He comes, we should be living like it will happen tomorrow.
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DaughterAnn †
"Isaiah 6:
5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts."
Posts: 60 | From: Lubbock, Texas | Registered: Sep 2003
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
That is a very good point you made. I do think that all the passages you pointed out reflects todays times. But do you really think that things are bad enough? And I know that no one knows when the end shall come but how long do you think we have left on the clock?
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
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DaughterAnn
Advanced Member
Member # 2055
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posted
I do. ![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif)
2 Timothy 3:
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
I don't think that we've ever seen this passage of scripture more clearly in our every day lives as in these times we live in.
Each of the items in this passage, we can see very plainly today. We've never been more selfish, more coveteous, more hedonistic people than we are now. Children divorce their parents, spiritualism is rampant, we'd rather gossip about anyone than tell the truth. These are the signs of a wicked generation. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I do think that it will get much worse, however. I see how Satan attacks the family and how he is distorting the frame work of marriages, and I think there is more wickedness to be seen before He returns.
But, I do think His coming is very soon.
Rev. 22:20
Even so, come, Lord Jesus. ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
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DaughterAnn †
"Isaiah 6:
5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts."
Posts: 60 | From: Lubbock, Texas | Registered: Sep 2003
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
Hi my name is Matthew, and I am new to your message boards. I would like to know if and why you think the end times will be seen by this generation, and your opinions on it.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
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