|
Author
|
Topic: Raelians claim to have cloned child
|
Paula
Advanced Member
Member # 551
|
posted
If a clone does or does not have a soul, how would anyone be able to tell?
Posts: 90 | From: Arizona | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
|
posted
Raelian/UFO-cult spread athiesm.
Leader says Eve will not see outside world until age of 18
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30224
Posted: December 29, 2002
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com
Does the UFO cult that claims to have cloned the first human baby have an agenda beyond weird science?
It appears so, according to interviews with its leader, Rael, formerly French magazine sportswriter and wannabe race-car driver Claude Vorilhon, 56. He took the name Rael after claiming to have a close encounter of the third kind.
His message for the world, like all Raelians, is that there's no God. We can all achieve immortality through cloning.
On Dec. 13, 1973, Vorilhon said he was walking in the Clermont-Ferrand volcanic mountain range in France when a UFO touched down. Humanoid creatures with pale greenish skin and almond-shaped eyes took him aboard, saying they wanted him to be their messenger to humankind.
The aliens explained they cloned the first people 25,000 years ago. Calling themselves ''Elohim'' – a name appearing in Genesis commonly translated as "gods" – the aliens said they had been mistaken as divine by several religions.
The little green people said Vorilhon was himself a clone and that they impregnated his mother in 1946 after the use of the first atomic bombs awakened them to mankind's advanced scientific knowledge.
''When I told my mother and grandmother the true story, my grandmother was relieved because she said that she had seen UFOs lingering around the house over the years and had never told anyone,'' Vorilhon told the Village Voice last year.
Vorilhon, who frequently dons flowing white garments, said his mission is to spread the word that there is no God, and that science and our alien forefathers would set people free –physically and sexually – and help them live forever.
Two years after the aliens' first visit, they reappeared and took Vorilhon to another planet where he said he met Jesus, Mohammed and Buddha. All became immortal through cloning, he said.
Ever since, he's been preaching the message of protecting the rights of the ''unreborn'' – a buzzword he used while testifying before Congress in March 2001. A federal cloning ban would be a Dark Ages act suitable for the Taliban, not freedom-loving America, he said.
''Traditional religions have always been against scientific progress,'' he said. ''They were against the steam engine, electricity, airplanes, cars, radio, television, etc. If we had listened to them, we would still have horses and carts and candles.''
Rael claims he has 2,000 more people on his books waiting to be cloned.
Rael set up Clonaid, the company which helped an anonymous mother clone her child Eve, who was born in the USA. In an exclusive interview with Scotland's Sunday Herald, Rael said Eve would not be seen by the outside world until she was 18. Clonaid has said it will provide scientific proof that the child is a clone within the next week.
He robustly defended the cloning experiment, saying: 'We are for peace and love. This is a time of danger for earth. We are spiritually lost. The two most powerful countries on earth – America and Britain – are ready to kill 100,000 civilians in Iraq, yet people are angry over the birth of a beautiful little girl through cloning.'
Rael's 55,000 Raelian followers believe humans were created in labs by aliens. Rael claims to have been visited by aliens in his native France, and says his ultimate goal is to clone people at the point of death, grow the clone to adulthood in a few of hours and download their memory into the clone's body – a technique he says will lead to eternal life and which he believes will be attainable in 25 years.
Rael also attacked Christianity, and particularly the Vatican, for its opposition to cloning. 'Everything that the Pope is against, I support,' he said. 'The Catholic Church is the worst enemy of human nature.'
Those who adhere to Vorilhon's teachings are encouraged to be respectful of other people and to enjoy the sexual company of others, including those of the same sex.
''He surrounds himself with attractive, glassy-eyed women – maybe that's why he likes Florida in the winter,'' said Eric Siblin, a Canadian writer who interviewed Rael for the Canadian magazine Logik three years ago. Siblin said he went to a pro-cloning event in Montreal run by the Raelians, whose interest in extraterrestrials and free love were evident.
''The meeting drew hundreds of people,'' he said. ''Lots of them were sci-fi nerds, and there were strippers, too.''
The sect sells science fiction knickknacks at its theme park/compound outside Montreal known as UFOLand, Siblin said.
The group, which claims more than 55,000 members worldwide, supports itself by tithing member's salaries – up to 3 percent of earnings – selling $9,000 embryo-obtaining ''cloning machines'' and charging large sums for cloning services.
In 1999, Vorilhon persuaded former West Virginia state legislator Mark Hunt to pay $500,000 to open a secret laboratory in Nitro, W.Va., to clone his dead 10-month-old son. Raelian Bishop Brigitte Boisselier, who made Friday's announcement, headed the project, but the U.S. Food and Drug Administration closed it down before she could finish.
After that, the Raelians never shunned the limelight.
In June, 2000, Catholic officials in Montreal took the Raelians to court in an attempt to break a lease that allowed the cult to use church property for its meetings. Catholic representatives said they were not aware of the Raelians' sexually libertine and space-age beliefs when they signed the agreement.
Problems with the Catholic Church resurfaced this year when Raelian protesters appeared outside a Catholic secondary school in Montreal and urged students to renounce their religion. The demonstrators carried wooden crosses, which they wanted the students to burn.
The Raelians have had run-ins with public institutions as well. In July 2000, they accused the United Nations of religious discrimination after UNESCO excluded the Raelian cult from its Manifesto 2000, a worldwide petition for peace and nonviolence.
Also, Vorilhon has crusaded to try to establish an embassy, preferably in Israel, for extraterrestrials when they return to Earth. The effort hasn't gone far.
Rael also revealed that his next big venture would be the creation of a virtual sex machine which will allow computer users to have sex with each other online
--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Trafield
unregistered
|
posted
I am not sure I agree with you about the clone having a soul. Only God knows if he would provide a soul into a being that was created by man and not the by the union of sperm and egg as He intended.
The clone is a man-made copy of an original creation by God. Would God provide a soul to such a copy? Or would this copy be void of a soul and ready for demonic posession? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
IP: Logged |
|
|
AhmaBeliever
Advanced Member
Member # 43
|
posted
Ditto !! ![[thumbsup]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
--------------------
John 14:27
Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Posts: 81 | From: Georgetown , Kentucky | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
abidinginhim
Advanced Member
Member # 620
|
posted
Regardless of how this child got here (and I am certainly against cloning), God still knew the baby was going to be here! They can't fool God! He saw it before the beginning of time and knew about this child. And this child has a soul because you can't take the soul out of a life and this child can know Jesus and lead others to the Lord and the joke is on the cloners!
God is in control --
--------------------
It's All About Him!
Posts: 137 | From: The Mountains of NC | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
AhmaBeliever
Advanced Member
Member # 43
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trafield:
Ahma, you are right that God is in control. ... I am simply declaring that the Lord is coming soon! And we should all get fired up about that! ![[Big Clap]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
Amen to that !! ![[Smile]](graemlins/youpi.gif) ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
--------------------
John 14:27
Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Posts: 81 | From: Georgetown , Kentucky | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
|
posted
http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/12/2...ning/index.html
Raelian leader: Cloning first step to immortality
'What if the child is perfectly healthy and beautiful?'
MIAMI, Florida (CNN) --The leader of a religious sect that claimed to have created the first human clone Friday called the development "just the first step" toward human immortality through cloning.
Former French journalist Claude Vorilhon, who now calls himself Rael, claims to be a direct descendant of extraterrestrials who created human life on Earth through genetic engineering. A company founded by his followers announced Friday that the first human clone has been born -- a 7-pound baby girl dubbed "Eve."
The announcement was met with skepticism and concern, since other cloned mammals have had serious birth defects or developed health problems later. But in an interview with CNN, Rael dismissed concerns about health problems in cloned animals, saying "I have no doubt the child will be perfectly healthy."
"Everybody in the world now is crazy about what if the child has a problem. What if? I say, what if the child is perfectly healthy and beautiful? I think opponents to cloning are more afraid of that than of the faults," he said.
Brigitte Boisselier, the chief executive officer of the Raelian-founded company Clonaid, said Eve was created using DNA from the mother's skin cells and is a genetic twin of her mother, a 31-year-old American citizen.
"The best proof that we can have is probably the grandmother, who said she looked just like the mother," Boisselier announced Friday at a news conference in Florida.
Group aims for adult clones
The Raelians eventually hope to develop adult clones into which humans could transfer their brains, Rael said.
"Cloning a baby is just the first step. For me, it's not so important," he said. "It's a good step, but my ultimate goal is to give humanity eternal life through cloning."
Boisselier said the cloned child was born Thursday in an undisclosed country. A group of independent scientists has been chosen by freelance journalist and physicist Dr. Michael Guillen to verify that Eve is the first human clone.
"I have accepted on two conditions: that the invitation be given with no strings attached whatsoever and that the tests be conducted by a group of independent world-class experts," Guillen said.
Results are expected in eight to nine days, Boisselier said.
Wave of condemnation
Friday's announcement prompted a wave of condemnation from scientists -- including one who leads a rival cloning project -- as well as religious organizations and the White House.
"Without any scientific data, one has to be very, very skeptical," said Dr. Robert Lanza, the head of medical and scientific development for the private genetic research firm Advanced Cell Technologies.
"This is a group again that has no scientific track record, never published a single scientific paper in this area," Lanza said.
"They have no research experience in this area. In fact, they have never even cloned a mouse or a rabbit."
White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said President Bush "believes like most Americans that human cloning is deeply concerning, and he strongly supports legislation banning human cloning."
In January, the National Academy of Sciences recommend a ban on human cloning, but only four states -- California, Michigan, Louisiana and Rhode Island -- ban any type of cloning research.
The Food and Drug Administration claims it has jurisdiction over human cloning based on the Public Health Service and Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act. It claims it would regulate the cloning process like a drug.
University of Wisconsin bioethicist Alta Charo called the announcement "an irresponsible example of medical grandstanding."
'An irresponsible experiment'
"I'm not persuaded that it has occurred," she said. "If it has occurred it is an irresponsible experiment on human beings before you have proof on other animals to determine if it is safe, and the first and most important principle of medical ethics is that you do not do harm."
Dr. Panos Zavos, the leader of another effort to clone humans, said Boisselier failed to provide any evidence of her claim.
"No events, no evidence, no signs of anything of that sort as far as delivery of a baby -- it's nothing but words," he said.
Zavos, a former University of Kentucky professor, also has announced plans to clone a human but has yet to successfully create an embryo. And Italian doctor Severino Antinori has said several times in recent months that a woman was carrying a human clone, which would be born in January.
"I think, frankly, that we are dealing with a group here that was trying to beat the competition," University of Pennsylvania bioethicist Glenn McGee said. "There is a pretty good-sized group of not-so-credible scientists trying to make Mini-Me, and one said he would make a clone my mid-January. Clonaid had one last shot, and they tried to take it."
The Christian Coalition condemned the announcement in a press release Friday, saying it, too, will push for a law banning human cloning.
Christian Coalition: 'an aberration'
"The cloning of human embryos for the purpose of performing destructive research and experimentation, such as that which just occurred today of 'Baby Eve,' is an aberration. It shows a total lack of respect for life and must be prevented," said Roberta Combs, president of the Christian Coalition of America.
To make a clone, scientists first take an egg and remove all of its genetic material. Then the nucleus of a cell -- any cell in the body -- is taken from the individual to be cloned and inserted into the hollowed-out egg.
The cell is then given a jolt of electricity or put in a chemical bath to activate cell division -- essentially tricking the cell into doing what a fertilized egg would normally do. Then the embryo is implanted into a woman's uterus who carries the baby to term.
Boisselier said Eve was the result of one of 10 implantations done by Clonaid: Five babies were spontaneously terminated during the first few weeks of pregnancy, she said.
"It's very important to remember we are talking about a baby," she said. "She is not a monster or some result of something that is disgusting. She is a very healthy baby with very happy parents."
Boisselier said the next clone is expected to be born next week in northern Europe, and three other cloned human babies should be born by early February.
--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Trafield
unregistered
|
posted
Ahma, you are right that God is in control. We are, however, commanded to watch for his return and have been given signs to look for.
I certainly am not insinuating that the sky is falling....well, maybe I am. The Lord is coming with the clouds! I am simply declaring that the Lord is coming soon! And we should all get fired up about that!
I am also not "worried" about the possibility of cloning, just saddened and appalled by it. As I am every time I see someone thumb their nose at their Creator.
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
Therefore, God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen.
Romans 1:21-25
IP: Logged |
|
|
AhmaBeliever
Advanced Member
Member # 43
|
posted
Frankly I don't care what these god-wannabees do . ![[happy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif) They can play god all day long , but when My God wants a human life to be , he only needs to say the word , and it is done. When My God desires to create ANYTHING living or inanimate , it happens at His command. So until I see proof that a "scientist" or "doctor" has such an ability , I will not get fired up or worried that the sky is falling when I hear about cloning or any other related subject . ![[Big Eyes]](graemlins/darthmavis.gif)
--------------------
John 14:27
Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Posts: 81 | From: Georgetown , Kentucky | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
|
posted
Here ya go
Tests to prove clone expected in a week to 10 days
The Associated Press Friday, December 27, 2002
(12-27) 09:34 PST (AP) --
Clonaid says it will rely on outside forensic experts to do the DNA tests necessary to prove they have produced a clone.
Several experts said standard DNA profiling -- the same tests used for forensic tasks like identifying a body -- would be sufficient proof.
Most likely the experts would get the DNA from blood drawn from mother and baby or by scraping the roofs of their mouths.
If the baby is a clone, its DNA will match both the nuclear DNA and the mitochondrial DNA of the woman who was said to be cloned, experts say.
DNA in the cell's nucleus is the kind that gets most public attention, because it is used in most forensic testing, the kind discussed in courtrooms. It's this nuclear DNA that is reproduced in cloning.
But human and animal cells also contain a second kind of DNA outside the nucleus. It resides in the mitochondria, the power plants of the cell. Some scientists say this additional DNA is also needed for convincing evidence.
Such testing should take about a week. Clonaid expects it will have results in a week to 10 days.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...1234EST0589.DTL
(This was from Drudge... there are several related links there on the right-hand side... one about the FDA investigating)
http://www.drudgereport.com/
--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Trafield
unregistered
|
posted
Right now we do not know if this is true. But there will be independent scientists conducting DNA testing to see if there is a match. If the DNA from the supposed clone is an identical match to the orginal woman, that it will be a proven clone. And as I said before, God forgive us if this is true!
IP: Logged |
|
|
AhmaBeliever
Advanced Member
Member # 43
|
posted
The question is : Is the child Really a Clone? How will you know for sure ? Because the "doctor" looking for publicity said so ? Is it because the mother may claim it is so ? How can we ever know without a doubt that the mother was never engaged in reproductive activities resulting in a normal childbirth ? A sworn statement perhaps ? What evidence would we then have that swearing before ANY god would mean Anything to the mother Or the "doctor(s)" ?
What's my point ? It's simple , don't beleive everything you read , ( Unless it is being read from The Holy Bible , The Word of God ) .
--------------------
John 14:27
Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Posts: 81 | From: Georgetown , Kentucky | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Trafield
unregistered
|
posted
LORD, FORGIVE US IF THIS IS TRUE!
COME QUICKLY! ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
Raelians claim to have cloned child
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/front/RTGAM/20021227/wclon1227_3/Front/homeBN/breakingnews
'Who are we to tell the parents the child that they should have?' Clonaid's Brigitte Boisselier asked at a press conference in Hollywood, Fla., on Friday.
By STEPHEN WICARY
Globe and Mail Update
A company founded by a Quebec-based cult that believes space aliens created humanity announced Friday that it has successfully produced the world's first human clone: a baby girl born to an American woman in her 30s.
Clonaid chief scientist Brigitte Boisselier made the announcement alone at a Florida hotel, without the mother or child.
"I am very pleased to announce that the first baby clone is born. She was born yesterday at 11:55 a.m. in the country where she was born," Dr. Boisselier told reporters, refusing to identify the country. "She's fine. We call her Eve."
She added that the name was merely a pseudonym, one that had been suggested to her by reporters. The child weighed just over 3 kilograms, she said, and was cloned from her mother's DNA.
Dr. Boisselier described the cloning process as similar to the one used to duplicate Dolly the sheep. And, as explanation for her solitary presence on the podium, she said the child's parents had yet to come to grips with facing the press.
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration will investigate whether the Raelians broke the law by conducting any part of the alleged cloning in the United States, a senior agency official said Friday. The U.S. has no specific law against human cloning, but the FDA, which regulates human experiments, argues that its regulations forbid human cloning without prior agency permission — authorization that it has no intention of giving.
To quell skepticism over the veracity of the experiment, Dr. Boisselier introduced Michael Guillen, a freelance journalist who she said would act as an independent assessor of its success.
"I don't know him. I've never met him, but I trust those who have chosen him," she said.
Dr. Guillen, who holds a doctorate degree in physics and worked as science editor for ABC news for 14 years, said he was taking on the responsibility of verifying the existence of the child without pay.
"Dr. Boisselier has invited me to put her claim to the test, and I have accepted on behalf of the world's press on two conditions: that the invitation be given with no strings attached whatsoever, and number two that the tests be condcuted by a group of independent world-class experts."
Dr. Guillen noted that the experts' tests would take about a week and that he would report back once they were complete.
"They're going to go by the book and be very strict and rigorous."
Clonaid was founded five years ago by the Raelians, a cult that built a UFO theme park in Quebec's Eastern Townships and argues that human beings have the right to reproduce in any way they wish.
The group expects four more babies to be born in the next several weeks, another from North America, one from Europe and two from Asia. Two of the couples are using preserved cells taken from their own children before their deaths, and one is a lesbian couple, Dr. Boisselier said.
"I do believe that it is the choice of every parent to choose the child they want, even if they don't have any infertility problem," she said, noting that the parentes were not asked to pay for the procedures, though some had invested in the company. "Who are we to tell the parents the child that they should have?"
"I saw them change," she added. "I saw them becoming so happy with the birth coming, and yesterday I can tell you it was the best day of their life. I wished them a very happy life."
IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
