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Topic: This is a sad commentary on motherhood.
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
Bump
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Father forgive this woman for she does not know what she does. Open her eyes to the truth that is Christ and bring her to repentence for her deeds, Father save her eternal soul and let her come to bring others to the Truth of Christ and out of bondage to this evil.
In Jesus Mighty Name I pray, Amen!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
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posted
 Happy Palestinian mother handing out sweets after word of her son's death in suicide attack.
 Mahmud Alabad's mother saying goodbye before his departure for suicide attack
I thought y'all might like to see the lady your talking about.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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posted
Listener:
'We see the same anti-Semitism in your sympathetic postings for the Palestinians.'
I object to this statement in the strongest of terms.
Please don't visit your inability to understand the difference between trying to alleviate the suffering of the dispossessed with sharing their political objectives on me. I can assure you that many Israelis are trying to do just that. We only hear from the fanatics of both sides in the media. In the middle are sane people.
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My Dear Brother John;
The same underlying anti-Semitism which caused you to criticize the Israelies for the Palestinian situation, permeates Western Europe, and most of American Liberalism. This is the perception and attitude which is constantly reinforced in the media. Portraying the Palestinians as victims of Jewish aggression has been the ploy of the Arabs for over 70 years, and was expedited by the British mandates of the ‘30s and 40’s.
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Listener:
I'll ignore your comments on the actions of the British towards the Jews after the Second World War. You obviously hold strong anti British views. No doubt you approve of Christian comments like :
'As for this woman, I hope Israel finds her home and bulldozes it into the ground.'
I haven't noticed anyone popping up to demonstrate with anyone over name calling here!
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My Dear Brother John;
I merely reiterate the history of Israel. The Balfor Declaration was a British Mandate which opened up Israel as a homeland for the Jews, as Great Britain controlled Palestine following the defeat of the Ottomon Empire.
The horrendous White Paper was handed down in 1939, effectively sealing-off Jewish immigration to Israel, just as the ovens were being fired-up in Auschwitz and Berkonal. The White Paper was do to England’s appeasement of the Arabs, following rioting and guerilla warfare attacks by the anti-Jewish Muftis. The White Paper remained in effect until well after WWII, and resulted in British Internment camps, housing Holocaust survivors, caught by the British attempting to run the British blockades of Palestine.
The Historical truth is there John, and whether you choose to receive it, the facts will remain. England catered to the Arabs, to the detriment of the Jews, and anti-Semitic attitudes were prevalent among many British Officers. This attitude has filtered-down throughout much of Western European society today, with prevailing sympathies for the Palestinians, in the media and is even reflected in your posts.
I do not attack England, I merely reiterate British History in Palestine.
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http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~samuel/britainarab.html
In a British television interview on December 12, 1971, Mr. Richard Crossman, one of Britain's famous left-wing intellectuals, a member of the Labour government between 1964 and 1970 and subsequently editor of the prestigious Socialist weekly The New Statesman, bluntly accused the former Labour Prime Minister Clement Attlee and Foreign Minister Ernest Bevin, who presided over the destinies of Britain after World War II, of having "tried to destroy the Jews of Palestine." Mr. Crossman recalled that he was intended by Mr. Bevin in 1945 to be one of the instruments of his policy. He thus discovered first hand what that policy was.
His accusation, with its implication of a violent British passion against the Jews of Mandated Palestine, must have startled many well-meaning people who innocently believed that the conflict over Palestine was a straightforward clash "between Jews and Arabs." If they knew of Britain’s role in the Mandate period it was as merely an honest broker caught in the middle. In fact, Mr. Crossman added authoritative support to those who have long known and insisted that Britain was an active participant in the dispute, and was indeed the prime driving force in the resistance to Jewish restoration in Palestine.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Michael
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Member # 170
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posted
Rev.21:8"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
"Rev 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."
Rom 1:28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
Isa 13:11 "And I will punish the world for [their] evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible"
Gen 12:2 "And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."
Posts: 106 | From: NYS | Registered: Jul 2002
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Michael
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Member # 170
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posted
Listener,
Does not this murderous woman deserve any punishment at all? Is not the murder of people a crime? She deserves far worse than just having her house bulldozed. Remember, it is God's way that murderers and other evil doers are punished. If my comment about the woman's house being bulldozed is not Christian, it is only because my comment is too weak. Remember: when Jesus returns He will rule with a rod of iron and the Church will rule and reign with Him. He will not be easy going on people who do evil. Quite the opposite. He will return not as a Lamb but as a Lion. His Second Coming will be quite different than the first.
The sad truth is that this evil world has rewarded this woman with money and celebrity status prestige. I can just see her wicked anti-Semitic murderous ways as she goes around with celebrity status and wealth encouraging other mothers to send their sons off to murder Jews(just because they are Jews.)
Posts: 106 | From: NYS | Registered: Jul 2002
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
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Listener:
I only have attempted to make two points :
1) heaping abuse on Mohammed, the Koran, Arabs and Moslems in general is offensive to reasonable men and women of all creeds and is unnecessary and counter productive.
2) if someone had attempted to alleviate the suffering and improve the living conditions of the Palestinians who were displaced and dispossessed then most of todays problems in that region wouldn't exist.
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My Dear Brother John;
It is imperative to study the truth of the matter and to arrive at one’s conclusions, unsullied by emotionalism or enculturated indoctrination. One must study history in order to realize why we are confronted with the current conditions, and perhaps seek to glimpse a brief glimmer of resolution.
It is not abuse to understand that the Koran teaches the appropriateness of the use of violence against infidels, (any non-Islamic). It is not abuse to point out that Mohammed began his ministry through robbery and murder, and that Islam was spread at the point of the sword.
It would be expedient if you were to read the history of Israel, and the British appeasement of Arab terrorism. In 1917 the Balfor Declaration, by Great Briton established a Jewish homeland in Palestine. This opened up immigration and the beginnings of the programs of communal agricultural reclamation.
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http://www.jajz-ed.org.il/50/act/bg/bg1.htm
Chapter 1 - The White Paper of 1939
I. Background
In 1929, the leaders of Arab nationalism organized a pogrom against the Jewish population of Palestine. The British reacted to this blood bath precisely as the Arabs had hoped: a British government White Paper was published which almost completely closed Mandate Palestine to Jewish immigration. As well as being a crisis for Zionism, this was a personal crisis for one individual: Chaim Weizmann, who succeeded in gaining the confidence of the British to the extent that they issued the Balfour Declaration in 1917, offering him the land of his forefathers.
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With the rise of the Nazi Party in Germany and the opening of the Death Camps, the German Jews were desperate to leave Germany. To appease the Arabs the British closed the borders of Palestine, to Jewish immigration. In effect enabling the Nazis to more effectively exterminate their Jewish population. Following the fall of Germany, internment camps were set up by the British, to hold the Jews attempting to immigrate to Israel in violation of the British Palestine Mandate. The survivors of the Concentration Camps were being re-imprisoned by the British in Greece and other countries.
Winston Churchill cautioned in 1939, the acts that we engage in for appeasement today we will have to remedy at far greater cost and remorse tomorrow.
Read the History Books John. Understand that there was a strong anti-Semitism, among the British, western Europe, and the Americans, of the 1920-30s. We see the same anti-Semitism in your sympathetic postings for the Palestinians. Understand that murder was rampant among the Arabs, in 1920s Palestine. The moderate Arab voices were executed, and peaceful Arab villages decimated of their populations, by the anti-Jewish radicals, in anti-zionist riots and progroms. Read your history books John, and understand that the Palestinian refugee problem today, has been brought about by the surrounding Arab populations, as the Muftis who supported the Jewish homeland, and sold the land to Israel, were replaced and even murdered by rabid anti-Semitics.
As You told the story of the scorpion and the frog, please understand that Israel is the frog and the Palestinians are the scorpion, and when Israel lets down her guard, she has been stung again and again, for it is in the nature of the Palestinian, through generations of enculturation, indoctrination, and the decimation of truly moderate voices.
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Listener:
If we allow ourselves to propogate a lie, because it tends to justify our argument, we don't get anywhere.
Saddam Hussein won't be around for too long. He did try to ingratiate himself with the Palestinians by offering a reward to the families of suicide bombers. It backfired on him because Hamas decided it was offensive. Not one family has taken up his offer. The Israeli government used this fact to illustrate that Hussein was isolated.
We can't have it both ways. Indefensible and unbelieveable as this woman is, she didn't encourage her son for 25K or for any financial reward. Her motives would escape sane people. It's called fanaticism. Communicated insanity.
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You failed to mention the telethon that was held by the Saudis, to raise money for the families of the Homicide Bombers. The mother's fanaticism has been bred into the Palestinians, often through the murder and elimination of those who would compromise and reason with the Jews. The true enemies of Israel hide behind and manipulate the artificially created Palestinian refugee, in order to attack Israel.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Michael
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posted
Of course, there's always the Saudi money to be had if one doesn't want Saddam's money.
As for this woman, I hope Israel finds her home and bulldozes it into the ground.
Posts: 106 | From: NYS | Registered: Jul 2002
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Michael
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posted
"Palestinian security forces were instructed over the weekend to enforce the new measure. On Friday, Hamas leaders in the Gaza Strip were summoned by the police and told that they would not be allowed to hold a rally on the same day to express their solidarity with Saddam. The ban was condemned by Hamas and other Palestinian groups, which accused the PA of succumbing to US and Israeli pressure."
Hamas would seem to absolutely love Saddam.
Posts: 106 | From: NYS | Registered: Jul 2002
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Michael
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http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1035016229723
[ Printer Friendly ]
Oct. 20, 2002
For first time, Arafat bans rallies in support of Saddam
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
The Palestinian Authority has decided to ban rallies in support of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, a senior PA official in Ramallah said yesterday. He explained that the decision, which went into effect over the weekend, was made by PA Chairman Yasser Arafat.
This is the first time the PA has banned such rallies. Over the past few weeks Palestinians have held demonstrations in the West Bank and Gaza Strip supporting Saddam and condemning the US for its threats to wage war against Iraq.
In addition, PA-appointed mosque preachers have been instructed to stop their attacks on the US and the West for fear that the sermons would damage the PA's relations with these states.
Palestinian security forces were instructed over the weekend to enforce the new measure. On Friday, Hamas leaders in the Gaza Strip were summoned by the police and told that they would not be allowed to hold a rally on the same day to express their solidarity with Saddam. The ban was condemned by Hamas and other Palestinian groups, which accused the PA of succumbing to US and Israeli pressure.
The PA official told The Jerusalem Post that Arafat was concerned that the international media were using the pro-Saddam rallies to portray Palestinians as supporters of terror.
Also, Arafat does not want to further alienate Washington by allowing Palestinians to burn American flags and effigies of US President George W. Bush, he added.
"Arafat is working hard to repair his relations with the White House," the official explained. "He wants to show the Americans that he is still in control and that nothing moves without him."
Saddam has been paying millions of dollars to Palestinian families in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as part of his strategy to support the intifada. According to PA officials, the Iraqi president has so far spent more than $15 million in financial aid to Palestinians, including the families of suicide bombers, prisoners, "martyrs," and the wounded.
Last week Saddam's representatives in the Gaza Strip delivered checks to 40 families in Rafah and Khan Yunis. Each family received $10,000 from the Arab Liberation Front, a small pro-Iraqi party operating in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Some PA officials have expressed their concern over Saddam's increased intervention in Palestinian affairs, complaining that the Iraqi leader had become more popular than Arafat in certain parts of the Gaza Strip.
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Posts: 106 | From: NYS | Registered: Jul 2002
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njclary
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posted
Listener: I trust you read and digested the information Drew posted, [by the way Drew, that was new to me and a tremendous read]
Listener, I have read some but not all, of the Koran, and have no wish to proceed further. I have no idea why you must defend these people and still call yourself a Christian, when there is a bounty on Americans and Christian, alike.
I am sure that there are peaceful muslems as well as peaceful Jews and peaceful Americans.
Back off son!
God Bless
Joel
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Michael
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Member # 170
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"I was happy when they told me that my son had died"
"The Fact that my son killed Jews makes me happy"
"We Muslims have the strongest maternal instinct."
"I Agreed that he become a suicide bomber to encourage other mothers"
"From the first time that I said goodbye, I asked him not to be afraid [in fighting] against the Jews, as they are cowards, that he prepare his weapons well before embarking,… that he kill [as many] as he can and leave none alive…."
Posts: 106 | From: NYS | Registered: Jul 2002
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Michael
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Member # 170
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posted
Actually, I believe I called the mother a genocidal maniac.She is a lot like Hitler. Have I spoken something untrue? No, I haven't. That interview she gave clearly shows that she is a genocidal maniac. She wants Jews killed because they are Jews. She calls them cowards. And she wants her son to kill all of the Jews(of course that's not possible, but it's the thought that counts.) Jesus spoke very sternly about the pharisees in denouncing them, and I follow his example by speaking so about this woman.He also went into the Temple and cleaned house when the money changers were there and as God before coming to Earth was known to destroy a city or two and even the world. And just look at what he'll do during the tribulation. Christians are allowed--even required--to sternly denounce evil and wickedness.
As for the whole money issue: this woman wanted 72 virgins for her son. She is showing her worldliness there--her son commits murder and earns a worldly reward(in the next world) for himself. And the money would be a worldly reward she earned by encouraging him.Moslems earn Heaven. They earn rewards. Mother and son both get a payoff here.
Posts: 106 | From: NYS | Registered: Jul 2002
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
The point Listener is that you have bought into the political lies and propaganda that the Palestinians are a dispossed people. They are political pawns in the hands of their Arab "brothers", as a method to attack Israel.
The Arabs refused to let them back into their countries of origen, but herded them into camps of their own. The refugee myth is as deadly a tool in the hands of the Arabs as is the bombs which they strap on their youngsters, who have been brainwashed from birth in the same propaganda that you are reiterating.
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Listener:
. But I know that the Israelis and the west should have assisted the people who were forcibly dispossessed. It's a problem that can't be sugar coated with explanations based on biblical texts. The Jews perpetrated horrendous acts upon the Arabs to obtain the land.
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This is a prime example of arabic lies and you are furthering their propaganda by repeating them.
The majority of the reclaimed Jewish land was purchased by the Jewish Settlement Society, from the arabic Muftis and was swampland and dessert until reclamation efforts were successful.
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http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/evidence.html
Evidence of Haj Amin al-Husseini1 Before the Royal Commission, January 12, 1937
Quote from text
SIR L. HAMMOND: His Eminence gave us a picture of the Arabs being evicted from their land and villages being wiped out. What I want to know is, did the Government of Palestine, the Administration, acquire the land and then hand it over to the Jews?
MUFTI: In most cases the lands were acquired.
SIR L. HAMMOND: I mean forcibly acquired-compulsory acquisition as land would be acquired for public purposes?
MUFTI: No, it wasn't.
SIR L. HAMMOND: Not taken by compulsory acquisition?
MUFTI: No.
SIR L. HAMMOND: Would you give me the figures again for the land. I want to know how much land was held by the Jews before the Occupation.
MUFTI: First of all I would like to say that one of the members of our Committee will deal later with the land question, but nevertheless I will give you the figures. At the time of the Occupation the Jews held about 100,000 dunams.
SIR L. HAMMOND: What year?
MUFTI: At the date of the British Occupation.
SIR L. HAMMOND: And now they hold how much?
MUFTI: About 1,500,000 dunams: 1,200,000 dunams already registered in the name of the Jewish holders, but there are 300,000 dunams which are the subject of written agreements, and which have not yet been registered in the Land Registry. That does not, of course, include the land which was assigned, about 100,000 dunams.
SIR L. HAMMOND: What 100,000 dunams was assigned. Is that not included in, the 1,200,000 dunams? The point is this. He says that in 1920 at the time of the Occupation, the Jews only held 100,000 dunams, is that so? I asked the figures from the Land Registry, how much land the Jews owned at the time of the Occupation. Would he be surprised to hear that the figure is not 100,000 but 650,000 dunams?
MUFTI: It may be that the difference was due to the fact that many lands were bought by contract which were not registered.
SIR L. HAMMOND: There is a lot of difference between 100,000 and 650,000.
MUFTI: In one case they sold about 400,000 dunams in one lot.
SIR L. HAMMOND: Who? An Arab?
MUFTI: Sarsuk. An Arab of Beyrouth.
SIR L. HAMMOND: His Eminence gave us a picture of the Arabs being evicted from their land and villages being wiped out. What I want to know is, did the Government of Palestine, the Administration, acquire the land and then hand it over to the Jews?
MUFTI: In most cases the lands were acquired.
SIR L. HAMMOND: I mean forcibly acquired-compulsory acquisition as land would be acquired for public purposes?
MUFTI: No, it wasn't.
SIR L. HAMMOND: Not taken by compulsory acquisition?
MUFTI: No.
SIR L. HAMMOND: But these lands amounting to some 700,000 dunams were actually sold?
MUFTI: Yes, they were sold, but the country was placed in such conditions as would facilitate such purchases.
SIR I HAMMOND: I don't quite understand what you mean by that. They were sold Who iold them?
MUFTI: Land owners.
SIR I HAMMOND: Arabs?
MUFTI: In most cases they were Arabs.
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One method to attack Israel, in the court of public opinion, is to maintain the palestinian myth, instead of allowing them to be assimilated back into their lands of origin, Syria, Jordan, etc.
Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian
identity serves only tactical purposes. The
founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool
in the continuing battle against Israel ...
-- Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Department head
of the PLO and member of its Executive
Council, Dutch daily Trouw, March 1977
The Prophet Muhammad said, "War is deception
-al-Bukhari, al-Jami al Sahih
"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 A.D. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years...," the Muslim chairman of the Syrian Delegation attested in his remarks to the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919.3
The British Palestine Royal Commission reported in 1937 that "it is time, surely, that Palestinian 'citizenship' . . . should be recognized as what it is, as nothing but a legal formula devoid of moral meaning."4
That the claim of "age-old Arab Palestinian rights to Arab Palestine" is contradicted by history has been pointed out by eminent historians and Arabists.
According to the Reverend James Parkes, "The Land was named Palestina by the Romans to eradicate all trace of its Jewish history..."
Where was this great Palestinian nation? It did not exist. It was not there. Palestinians were not there. Palestine was a region named by the Romans, but at that time it was under the control of Turkey, and there was no large mass of people there because the land would not support them.
This is the report that the Palestinian Royal Commission, created by the British, made. It quotes an account of the conditions on the coastal plain along the Mediterranean Sea in 1913. This is the Palestinian Royal Commission.
They said:
The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track, suitable for transport by camels or carts. No orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached the Yavnev village. Houses were mud. Schools did not exist. The western part toward the sea was almost a desert. The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many villages were deserted by their inhabitants.
Only after the Israelies began to reclaim and prosper the land, which they had purchased, did one observe an influx of arabs for employment, and a share of the prosperity.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
This woman has been on my mind all day.
The Bible says we war not with flesh and blood; but with powers and principalities and spiritual wickedness in high place.
Listener:
Did you ever stop for a moment to realize that the same thing that causes Michael to make such terrible statements as to call this woman a psycho and insinuate that she could do such a thing because she wanted 25K is the same thing that causes you to blame the Jews for forcing them to this point.
What thing is common between the two of your views? A secular world view.
This is not happening because Jews are living in occupied territories, and it is not happening because people love their children less than money!
It is caused because there is a battle in the heavenlies and in the unseen realm that is being played out in the day to day lives of people.
The war is for the souls of those people. The enemy is not the Jew and the enemy is not the Arab, and the enemy is not even the ignorance of so many here in the West, but the enemy is SATAN.
If we could only realize this, we would all be forced to our knees in prayer. Prayer my friends availith much! What would happen if every person in the free world spent one hour a day in prayer for a Jewish and an Arab family? What if we prayed for open ears and hearts and eyes; what if we bound the evil spirits at work there?
I know there will not be real peace in Jerusalem before Christ comes again, but Dear God, there are a lot of souls being lost for eternity every day.
The freedom is CHRIST. You asked what hope does she have? Christ... Christ is the only answer.
Islam is the tool of Satan here... it is the glue that holds these poor people captive. If they were to come to Christ and be truely born again they would no longer be able to kill themselves or anyone else. The Bible teaches us to value human life, because our Father created it. But Islam according to the Koran makes finding Christ very very difficult.
I do not know the facts behind the Ireland issue Listener, so I cant speak to that, but I am not ignorant of the evil that has been done in the name of Christ for example the crusades in europe, or the KKK here. But the fact remains that those who carried out these evils were NOT following the Bible.
The Bible says love those who hate you, bless and not curse your enemy; thou shalt not kill.
The people who carry out the evil that is Jihad, ARE following the teachings of the Koran.
And lastly Michael:
I find your name calling an insult to the body of Christ that you claim to be a member of.
"psycho, racisit, homocidal maniac"?
Please explan to me how this furthers the Kingdom of God; or brings Glory to Christ who shed His blood that this woman may hear the Gospel and be saved?
I remind you that this woman is woman who was created by Almighty God; and His heart breaks over her lost state. Yes, her sin is an aboration to Him, but He has done all He can do; He gave the most precious thing He could give and made it possible for her to find Truth.
He left demonstrating His love, and spreading His word up to us, but too many of us spend our time placing blame on earthly things,name calling, being self righteous, and leaning on our own understanding and and too little time praying and being light and salt to a lost and dark world.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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posted
http://www.senate.gov/~inhofe/fl030402.html
PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST
Senate Floor Statement by
U.S. Sen. James M. Inhofe (R-Okla)
March 4, 2002
I was interested the other day when I heard that the de facto ruler, Saudi Arabian Crown Prince Abdullah, made a statement which was received by many in this country as if it were a statement of fact, as if it were something new, a concept for peace in the Middle East that no one had ever heard of before. I was kind of shocked that it was so well received by many people who had been down this road before.
I suggest to you that what Crown Prince Abdullah talked about a few days ago was not new at all. He talked about the fact that under the Abdullah plan, Arabs would normalize relations with Israel in exchange for the Jewish state surrendering the territory it received after the 1976 Six-Day War as if that were something new. He went on to talk about other land that had been acquired and had been taken by Israel.
I remember so well on December 4 when we covered all of this and the fact that there isn't anything new about the prospect of giving up land that is rightfully Israel's land in order to have peace.
When it gets right down to it, the land doesn't make that much difference because Yasser Arafat and others don't recognize Israel's right to any of the land. They do not recognize Israel's right to exist.
I will discuss seven reasons, which I mentioned once before, why Israel is entitled to the land they have and that it should not be a part of the peace process.
If this is something that Israel wants to do, it is their business to do it. But anyone who has tried to put the pressure on Israel to do this is wrong.
We are going to be hit by skeptics who are going to say we will be attacked because of our support for Israel, and if we get out of the Middle East--that is us--all the problems will go away. That is just not true. If we withdraw, all of these problems will again come to our door.
I have some observations to make about that. But I would like to reemphasize once again the seven reasons that Israel has the right to their land. The first reason is that Israel has the right to the land because of all of the archeological evidence. That is reason, No. 1. All the archeological evidence supports it.
Every time there is a dig in Israel, it does nothing but support the fact that Israelis have had a presence there for 3,000 years. They have been there for a long time. The coins, the cities, the pottery, the culture--there are other people, groups that are there, but there is no mistaking the fact that Israelis have been present in that land for 3,000 years.
It predates any claims that other peoples in the regions may have. The ancient Philistines are extinct. Many other ancient peoples are extinct. They do not have the unbroken line to this date that the Israelis have.
Even the Egyptians of today are not racial Egyptians of 2,000, 3,000 years ago. They are primarily an Arab people. The land is called Egypt, but they are not the same racial and ethnic stock as the old Egyptians of the ancient world. The first Israelis are in fact descended from the original Israelites. The first proof, then, is the archeology.
The second proof of Israel's right to the land is the historic right. History supports it totally and completely. We know there has been an Israel up until the time of the Roman Empire. The Romans conquered the land. Israel had no homeland, although Jews were allowed to live there. They were driven from the land in two dispersions: One was in 70 A,.D. and the other was in 135 A.D. But there was always a Jewish presence in the land.
The Turks, who took over about 700 years ago and ruled the land up until about World War I, had control. Then the land was conquered by the British. The Turks entered World War I on the side of Germany. The British knew they had to do something to punish Turkey, and also to break up that empire that was going to be a part of the whole effort of Germany in World War I. So the British sent troops against the Turks in the Holy Land.
One of the generals who was leading the British armies was a man named Allenby. Allenby was a Bible-believing Christian. He carried a Bible with him everywhere he went and he knew the significance of Jerusalem.
The night before the attack against Jerusalem to drive out the Turks, Allenby prayed that God would allow him to capture the city without doing damage to the holy places.
That day, Allenby sent World War I biplanes over the city of Jerusalem to do a reconnaissance mission. You have to understand that the Turks had at that time never seen an airplane. So there they were, flying around. They looked in the sky and saw these fascinating inventions and did not know what they were, and they were terrified by them. Then they were told they were going to be opposed by a man named Allenby the next day, which means, in their language, ``man sent from God'' or ``prophet from God.'' They dared not fight against a prophet from God, so the next morning, when Allenby went to take Jerusalem, he went in and captured it without firing a single shot.
The British Government was grateful to Jewish people around the world, particularly to one Jewish chemist who helped them manufacture niter. Niter is an ingredient that was used in nitroglycerin which was sent over from the New World. But they did not have a way of getting it to England. The German U-boats were shooting on the boats, so most of the niter they were trying to import to make nitroglycerin was at the bottom of the ocean. But a man named Weitzman, a Jewish chemist, discovered a way to make it from materials that existed in England. As a result, they were able to continue that supply.
The British at that time said they were going to give the Jewish people a homeland. That is all a part of history. It is all written down in history. They were gratified that the Jewish people, the bankers, came through and helped finance the war.
The homeland that Britain said it would set aside consisted of all of what is now Israel and all of what was then the nation of Jordan--the whole thing. That was what Britain promised to give the Jews in 1917.
In the beginning, there was some Arab support for this action. There was not a huge Arab population in the land at that time, and there is a reason for that. The land was not able to sustain a large population of people. It just did not have the development it needed to handle those people, and the land was not really wanted by anybody. Nobody really wanted this land. It was considered to be worthless land.
I want the Presiding Officer to hear what Mark Twain said. And, of course, you may have read ``Huckleberry Finn'' and ``Tom Sawyer.'' Mark Twain--Samuel Clemens--took a tour of Palestine in 1867. This is how he described that land. We are talking about Israel now. He said:
A desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds. A silent, mournful expanse. We never saw a human being on the whole route. There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country.
Where was this great Palestinian nation? It did not exist. It was not there. Palestinians were not there. Palestine was a region named by the Romans, but at that time it was under the control of Turkey, and there was no large mass of people there because the land would not support them.
This is the report that the Palestinian Royal Commission, created by the British, made. It quotes an account of the conditions on the coastal plain along the Mediterranean Sea in 1913. This is the Palestinian Royal Commission. They said:
The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track, suitable for transport by camels or carts. No orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached the Yavnev village. Houses were mud. Schools did not exist. The western part toward the sea was almost a desert. The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many villages were deserted by their inhabitants.
That was 1913.
The French author Voltaire described Palestine as ``a hopeless, dreary place.''
In short, under the Turks the land suffered from neglect and low population. That is a historic fact. The nation became populated by both Jews and Arabs because the land came to prosper when Jews came back and began to reclaim it.
Historically, they began to reclaim it. If there had never been any archaeological evidence to support the rights of the Israelis to the territory, it is also important to recognize that other nations in the area have no longstanding claim to the country either.
Did you know that Saudi Arabia was not created until 1913, Lebanon until 1920? Iraq did not exist as a nation until 1932, Syria until 1941; the borders of Jordan were established in 1946 and Kuwait in 1961. Any of these nations that would say Israel is only a recent arrival would have to deny their own rights as recent arrivals as well. They did not exist as countries. They were all under the control of the Turks.
Historically, Israel gained its independence in 1948.
The third reason that land belongs to Israel is the practical value of the Israelis being there. Israel today is a modern marvel of agriculture. Israel is able to bring more food out of a desert environment than any other country in the world. The Arab nations ought to make Israel their friend and import technology from Israel that would allow all the Middle East, not just Israel, to become an exporter of food. Israel has unarguable success in its agriculture.
The fourth reason I believe Israel has the right to the land is on the grounds of humanitarian concern. You see, there were 6 million Jews slaughtered in Europe in World War II. The persecution against the Jews had been very strong in Russia since the advent of communism. It was against them even before then under the Czars.
These people have a right to their homeland. If we are not going to allow them a homeland in the Middle East, then where? What other nation on Earth is going to cede territory, is going to give up land?
They are not asking for a great deal. The whole nation of Israel would fit into my home State of Oklahoma seven times. It would fit into the Presiding Officer's State of Georgia seven times. They are not asking for a great deal. The whole nation of Israel is very small. It is a nation that, up until the time that claims started coming in, was not desired by anybody.
The fifth reason Israel ought to have their land is that she is a strategic ally of the United States. Whether we realize it or not, Israel is a detriment, an impediment, to certain groups hostile to democracies and hostile to what we believe in, hostile to that which makes us the greatest nation in the history of the world. They have kept them from taking complete control of the Middle East. If it were not for Israel, they would overrun the region. They are our strategic ally.
It is good to know we have a friend in the Middle East on whom we can count. They vote with us in the United Nations more than England, more than Canada, more than France, more than Germany--more than any other country in the world.
The sixth reason is that Israel is a roadblock to terrorism. The war we are now facing is not against a sovereign nation; it is against a group of terrorists who are very fluid, moving from one country to another. They are almost invisible. That is whom we are fighting against today.
We need every ally we can get. If we do not stop terrorism in the Middle East, it will be on our shores. We have said this again and again and again, and it is true.
One of the reasons I believe the spiritual door was opened for an attack against the United States of America is that the policy of our Government has been to ask the Israelis, and demand it with pressure, not to retaliate in a significant way against the terrorist strikes that have been launched against them.
Since its independence in 1948, Israel has fought four wars: The war in 1948 and 1949--that was the war for independence--the war in 1956, the Sinai campaign; the Six-Day War in 1967; and in 1973, the Yom Kippur War, the holiest day of the year, and that was with Egypt and Syria.
You have to understand that in all four cases, Israel was attacked. They were not the aggressor. Some people may argue that this was not true because they went in first in 1956, but they knew at that time that Egypt was building a huge military to become the aggressor. Israel, in fact, was not the aggressor and has not been the aggressor in any of the four wars.
Also, they won all four wars against impossible odds. They are great warriors. They consider a level playing field being outnumbered 2 to 1.
There were 39 Scud missiles that landed on Israeli soil during the gulf war. Our President asked Israel not to respond. In order to have the Arab nations on board, we asked Israel not to participate in the war. They showed tremendous restraint and did not. Now we have asked them to stand back and not do anything over these last several attacks.
We have criticized them. We have criticized them in our media. Local people in television and radio often criticize Israel, not knowing the true facts. We need to be informed.
I was so thrilled when I heard a reporter pose a question to our Secretary of State, Colin Powell. He said:
Mr. Powell, the United States has advocated a policy of restraint in the Middle East. We have discouraged Israel from retaliation again and again and again because we've said it leads to continued escalation--that it escalates the violence. Are we going to follow that preaching ourselves?
Mr. Powell indicated we would strike back. In other words, we can tell Israel not to do it, but when it hits us, we are going to do something.
But all that changed in December when the Israelis went into the Gaza with gunships and into the West Bank with F-16s. With the exception of last May, the Israelis had not used F-16s since the 1967 6-Day War. And I am so proud of them because we have to stop terrorism. It is not going to go away. If Israel were driven into the sea tomorrow, if every Jew in the Middle East were killed, terrorism would not end. You know that in your heart. Terrorism would continue.
It is not just a matter of Israel in the Middle East. It is the heart of the very people who are perpetrating this stuff. Should they be successful in overrunning Israel--which they won't be--but should they be, it would not be enough. They will never be satisfied.
No. 7, I believe very strongly that we ought to support Israel; that it has a right to the land. This is the most important reason: Because God said so. As I said a minute ago, look it up in the book of Genesis. It is right up there on the desk.
In Genesis 13:14-17, the Bible says:
The Lord said to Abram, ``Lift up now your eyes, and look from the place where you are northward, and southward, and eastward and westward: for all the land which you see, to you will I give it, and to your seed forever. ..... Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it to thee.''
That is God talking.
The Bible says that Abram removed his tent and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and built there an altar before the Lord. Hebron is in the West Bank. It is at this place where God appeared to Abram and said, ``I am giving you this land,''--the West Bank.
This is not a political battle at all. It is a contest over whether or not the word of God is true. The seven reasons, I am convinced, clearly establish that Israel has a right to the land.
Eight years ago on the lawn of the White House, Yitzhak Rabin shook hands with PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat. It was a historic occasion. It was a tragic occasion.
At that time, the official policy of the Government of Israel began to be, ``Let us appease the terrorists. Let us begin to trade the land for peace.'' This process continued unabated up until last year. Here in our own Nation, at Camp David, in the summer of 2000, then Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Barak offered the most generous concessions to Yasser Arafat that had ever been laid on the table.
He offered him more than 90 percent of all the West Bank territory, sovereign control of it. There were some parts he did not want to offer, but in exchange for that he said he would give up land in Israel proper that the PLO had not even asked for.
And he also did the unthinkable. He even spoke of dividing Jerusalem and allowing the Palestinians to have their capital there in the East. Yasser Arafat stormed out of the meeting. Why did he storm out of the meeting? Everything he had said he wanted was offered there. It was put into his hands. Why did he storm out of the meeting?
A couple of months later, there began to be riots, terrorism. The riots began when now Prime Minister Ariel Sharon went to the Temple Mount. And this was used as the thing that lit the fire and that caused the explosion.
Did you know that Sharon did not go unannounced and that he contacted the Islamic authorities before he went and secured their permission and had permission to be there? It was no surprise.
The response was very carefully calculated. They knew the world would not pay attention to the details.
They would portray this in the Arab world as an attack upon the holy mosque. They would portray it as an attack upon that mosque and use it as an excuse to riot. Over the last 8 years, during this time of the peace process, where the Israeli public has pressured its leaders to give up land for peace because they are tired of fighting, there has been increased terror.
In fact, it has been greater in the last 8 years than any other time in Israel's history. Showing restraint and giving in has not produced any kind of peace. It is so much so that today the leftist peace movement in Israel does not exist because the people feel they were deceived.
They did offer a hand of peace, and it was not taken. That is why the politics of Israel have changed drastically over the past 12 months. The Israelis have come to see that, ``No matter what we do, these people do not want to deal with us. ..... They want to destroy us.'' That is why even yet today the stationery of the PLO still has upon it the map of the entire state of Israel, not just the tiny little part they call the West Bank that they want. They want it all.
We have to get out of this mind set that somehow you can buy peace in the Middle East by giving little plots of land. It has not worked before when it has been offered.
These seven reasons show why Israel is entitled to that land.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Michael
Advanced Member
Member # 170
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posted
I bet that psycho mom taught her son to hate Jews when he was still in the womb. She exposed herself as a rascist genocidal maniac in that interview. Obviously she's guided by the same spirit as Hitler.
But NJ, we can't bring the Koran into this because Islam is a religion of peace.lol
Posts: 106 | From: NYS | Registered: Jul 2002
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njclary
unregistered
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posted
No, Not the money, that is the mindset of the radical muslem, They are taught well, and thoroughly, from the Koran, That is what is even more frightening. the zeal in which the Islam religeon is lived out.
Oh If only the Christian religeon, were lived with such zeal.
God Bless.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Ezekiel 23:39 For when they had slain their children to their idols, then they came the same day into my sanctuary to profane it; and, lo, thus have they done in the midst of mine house.
Let us remeber who the enemy is here. This is horrifying; yes it is beyond our ability to comprehend.
But let us pray for these people! Let us pray that they may come to know Christ and through him find freedom for the devil that blinds them. Let us pray for Mercy for their souls!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Michael
Advanced Member
Member # 170
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posted
"I was happy when they told me that my son had died"
I think that mother is just in it to get some of Saddam's money. What do they pay the families now? I think it's up to $25,000 per suicide bomber. And she wanted her son to be pleasured by 72 virgins? Yes, what a wonderful reason to commit murder and kill yourself.
Posts: 106 | From: NYS | Registered: Jul 2002
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Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
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posted
I prayed that my son be killed in action, so he could rewarded with the [72] virgins!
They are missing something in their brains, if they have one.
http://www.idf.il/newsite/english/main.asp
17 October 2002
A Palestinian Mother who sent her son to commit a suicide attack explains her motives
On October 14, 2002, the Hamas Website published an interview with a Palestinian mother who sent her son to carry out a suicide attack against Israel. The mother is proud of the support and encouragement she gave her son in carrying out his attack. She is proud of his death and hopes to serve as an example to other Palestinian mothers and sons.
Mahmud Alabat's mother saying goodbye
before his departure for the suicide attack
Mahmud Alabat's mother handing out sweets as
a sign of her happiness after receiving word
of her son's death in the terror attack
Here is an excerpt of the interview with of the mother of Mahmud Alabad. Mahmud was killed while attacking IDF troops in the Gaza Strip on June 15, 2002 (two IDF soldiers were killed in the attack).
"I was happy at his birth and at his death"
Mahmud Alabad was born in the Shati refugee camp on April 30, 1979. When I gave birth to Mahmud, I was so happy when I saw him, and when I said goodbye to him when he was on his way to the next world, I was happy… may Allah be praised for the fate that granted this suicide attacker his life and his death.
The process of being accepted into the group of Hamas suicide bombers
Mahmud arrived at home one day and said: I was accepted, mother. I asked him where. He replied: To the ranks of the brigades [The Izz-a Din Al-Qassam Brigades, terrorist faction of the Hamas]. From now on, he said, I am to be counted among the warriors. He hurried and left [the house]. I assumed that he was going to a confrontation with the Jews, yet he returned shortly and asked me to be filmed with him for a video. He told me that the brigades want my approval for him to be a suicide bomber (Istishahadi). I sent a letter with him, which he passed to the leader, Salah Shehade [head of the terrorist faction of the Hamas; Shehade was killed in the IDF Airforce attack on Gaza in July 2002]. Shehade said that the operation that Mahmud would take part in would be very successful, because his mother is pleased by his actions.
"I Agreed that he become a suicide bomber to encourage other mothers"
The truth is that, in the beginning, I was surprised that my son would leave me and that I would see him no more. I steeled myself, however, and realized that my son's martyrdom was an act of Allah, and it became for me as a source of pride. [My son] asked me to come with him to film his farewell video. At first I refused to be filmed with him for fear of how it would appear, but his commanders told me that it would be considered a powerful encouragement for [other] women and youth and would strengthen the heart of our nation. On that basis, I agreed to be filmed to show our loyalty to Allah. Through the film, I wanted to convey the message that we are a people, that our land is occupied, that we have no choice but revolution against the conqueror, no choice but to kill the conqueror, to banish him from our land in any way by possible by pressing the Jihad [the holy war against the infidels], the suicide, and the struggle-and by the fortitude of the mothers.
"I prayed that my son be killed in action, so he could rewarded with the [72] virgins in Heaven"
Prior to the attack in which he was killed, Mahmud went on two other missions, before which I had to bid him farewell. The first time he left immediately after we were filmed on video. He told me: The most important thing is to please you. He hurried and left, and I waited anxiously to hear of his death. I wished him success and that Allah might speed him along in his attack against his enemies. The following evening, while I was kneeling on my prayer rug, Mahmud entered, and I asked him what happened. He answered: I went to the place and I saw the bride and her family; tomorrow we go there to pay the dowry [bride is the Hamas code word for terror attack; this is based on the belief that a man who falls in the course of Jihad ascends to Heaven and marries 72 virgins]. I asked him what happened. He answered: I could not find any Jews. Then a second time I said goodbye to him, and he said: I am going, and I will not return. I cried and tears flowed down my cheeks, and when Mahmud saw me [like this] he did not answer but turned his head [and ran out]. I waited until midnight, and then he came back. I asked that from now we not say goodbye but that he go at his first opportunity. And that is what happened.
From the first time that I said goodbye, I asked him not to be afraid [in fighting] against the Jews, as they are cowards, that he prepare his weapons well before embarking,… that he kill [as many] as he can and leave none alive…. And when he left for his operation, his face was radiant as if he were meeting the girls of heaven right then and there. I wished him luck and that he enter heaven and marry the girls as soon as possible.
"I was happy when they told me that my son had died"
In the middle of the night, two masked men knocked on the door [of our house]. As soon as I opened the door they said: Allah has richly rewarded you. Instantly I knew that Mahmud had been granted the death he wanted…. I told my husband that Mahmud had been slain in the glorious attack. I also informed Mahmud's brother and felt happiness mixed with sorrow. I informed his sisters that I had known in advance of his attack and that I was even filmed in a video beforehand. They were astonished at first, but they quickly accepted my actions.
"Salah Shehade chose my son personally for this mission."
After my son requested to become a suicide bomber, I wrote a letter to the leadership of the Izz-a Din Al-Qasasm regiment; the letter was transferred to Salah Shehade's personal attention. The great man who had the honor of my son's death and sending him on this mission. He [Salah Shehade] was the one who chose the suicide bombers and asked the family's permission. [Shehade's decision] was the single most influential thing in my son's life.
"The Fact that my son killed Jews makes me happy"
I was very happy when I heard that he [Mahmud] killed Jews in the attack. When a warrior of Jihad follows Allah's path to kill Jews, [it is the act of Jihad] that gives him strength. Even if he does not kill any Jews, it is an honorable act because he dies the death of a martyr.
"We Muslims have the strongest maternal instinct."
We [Muslims] have a strong maternal instinct. We have a deep love for our sons. We always remember our deceased sons and feel their absence. However, this love weakens when compared to our conquered homeland. We want heaven and endeavor to please Allah. Allah has commanded us to fight the jihad in Allah's way-with our possessions and our souls'. We answer Allah's call, and this gives us pride.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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