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Author Topic: Service for gay community draws support, protests Kindgo Advanced Member Member # 2 posted                       MAC>.{{{{{hugs}}}} You are a sweetheart and I love you too! -------------------- God bless, Kindgo Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success. Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged |  Miguel Advanced Member Member # 47 posted                          A LOVE POEM FOR I LOVE KINDGO SO MUCH THAT I HAVE OPEN MY HEART TO HER. THAN WHENEVER WE DO NOT AGREE, WE WILL FILL THE PLACE WITH A CAN OF WORN. KNOWING THAT THE FLESH PROFITS NOTHING WILL CONTINUE IN THE CAN OF WORM. I HAVE BARRY MY FLESH FOR THE SAKE OF HER AND OUR WONDERFUL LOVE IN CHRIST. LET IT BE KNOWN TO THE WORLD THAT I HAVE DIED FOR HER. I HAVE COVERED HER WITH EVERLASTING LOVE. IN TIMES OF TROUBLES, I WILL BE THERE FOR HER WITH EVERLASTING HUGE. I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT BETWEEN THEE AND ME; I WILL NEVER LET MY FLESH BE THE CAUSE OF OUR DIVORCE. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -------------------- Romans 9:11-24 Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote! Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged |  listener Advanced Member Member # 338 posted                    it must have entered my subconscious mind! God Bless Posts: 119 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged |  Kindgo Advanced Member Member # 2 posted                       1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words Listener, its our 'Blessed Hope', we are to take comfort in HIS soon return! I just don't understand? I have very sweet dreams of rapture........I love Jesus and I want to be with HIM. When I get up, I think how I can serve HIM, there is work to do, when I go to bed, its rest from a job i hope HE will say well done. You didn't see my picture in my profile? -------------------- God bless, Kindgo Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success. Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged |  listener Advanced Member Member # 338 posted                    it only told me that you used to be a cook. i read your words. there are lots of ways of saying 'the end is nigh'. if i have nightmares i'm going to blame you. God Bless you. Posts: 119 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged |  Kindgo Advanced Member Member # 2 posted                       Hey listener, I think you looked at my profile, thats how you know me so well! -------------------- God bless, Kindgo Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success. Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged |  listener Advanced Member Member # 338 posted                    my question about satan controlling the mainstream churches was too general, and i withdraw it. it's obvious that individual churches have been targetted. a church as opposed to the church. a baptist church, or the baptist church. i think you are both wrong at worse, but inaccurate at best. it's not blasphemous to root out satan. if he targets the weakness in a particular church are we to remain silent? imagine a person who has had no exposure to Christianity. (those who pass through the public school system etc) for one reason or another they turn up at the Catholic Church at the center of Kindgo's post. they experience a service for homosexuals. they go home and read their shiny new Bibles. is it going to have a preface .. 'please ignore the Sodom and G... story as we no longer take any notice of it'...? i think that most of us would accept that the Catholic Church is a Christian denomination, even though we don't belong to it or necessarily agree with its teachings. God Bless you all. Posts: 119 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged |  Miguel Advanced Member Member # 47 posted                          HARVEST TIME -------------------- Romans 9:11-24 Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote! Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged |  Kindgo Advanced Member Member # 2 posted                       1Th 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort [you] by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, [so] ye would abound more and more. 1Th 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. 1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 1Th 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; 1Th 4:5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: 1Th 4:6 That no [man] go beyond and defraud his brother in [any] matter: because that the Lord [is] the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. 1Th 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. 1Th 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. 1Th 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another. 1Th 4:10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more; 1Th 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you; 1Th 4:12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and [that] ye may have lack of nothing. 1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words -------------------- God bless, Kindgo Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success. Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged |  Miguel Advanced Member Member # 47 posted                          Matthew 3:12 Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. Matthew 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. Matthew 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. Matthew 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? Matthew 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? Matthew 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. Luke 3:17 Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable. This is what is happening right now inside the churches, GOD is draging HIS people out of this false gospel system that the enemy have been usin because we give so much enfasis in this church system today. Not the real church of Christ, but the corporate body is compose of wheat and tares! He is separating the wheat for His barn right at this very time. -------------------- Romans 9:11-24 Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote! Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged |  Miguel Advanced Member Member # 47 posted                          Helpforhomeschoolers your right those in Christ are the spiritual church and in no means can be posses by satan, it is the congressional gathering that he is been taking over by the false gospels and all in one religion because GOD loved all men! -------------------- Romans 9:11-24 Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote! Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged |  helpforhomeschoolers Advanced Member Member # 15 posted                          Let us not think this is an individual conggregational church problem, this an organizational problem. Many main stream denominations are becoming aposte. A good look is at those that have joined on to the WCC. I saw an article recently on the main denominations that are embrasing homsexuality. Do not gwt me wrong, a homosexual would be welcome in my church any day and received with love and prayer, but homosexuality would not be condoned as is being done here where we are holding mass for you if you are a homosexual. God I think must be so angry, no wonder it is wrath that is going to come. No Satan is not controling the Church, these who call them selves the Church have left God and are therefore not the Church. Please do not say Satan is in control of the Church that is blashpheme. The Church is the body and bride of Christ and will never be controled by Satan. There are many who call themselves the church who are not. Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged |  listener Advanced Member Member # 338 posted                    Kindgo's posting was an obvious case. how do we know which churches? Posts: 119 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged |  Miguel Advanced Member Member # 47 posted                          quote: Originally posted by listener: is it just the Catholic Church doing this sort of service for sinners? NO MANY OTHERS -------------------- Romans 9:11-24 Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote! Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged |  Miguel Advanced Member Member # 47 posted                          Revelation 3:14-17 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: II Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; I John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Luke 21:32-36 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. 2 Timothy 3:1-7 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Rom 1:26-32 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that Titus 2:3-5 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. 1 Timothy 2:11-12 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. Isaiah 59:7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths. What are the women like today? Don't these scriptures describe the women what they would be like? I once read "the safest place for an unborn child is in the Mothers' womb, today it is the most dangerous". What does this statement say? You get pregnant today it isn't looked at as a blessing but is it the right time to have one? Is it convenient for us? Can we put this "object" in our schedule? Are men in authority of his household? What has happened to the home? How many women look at there family as there number one priority? How many abortions, or innocent blood shed on a daily basis? Isn't this murder in God's eyes? Nothing is more innocent than a child, in a womb or out. Women are no longer in there homes taking care of the family as God set it up to be, look what the Womens Right Movement has done. We are at the point of legalizing same sex marriage, this is not how Christ created the family. He created Adam and Eve and said to multiply. We have let false teachings creap in slowly, and now the Churches have accepted them. Need more signs? Jude 15-18 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. Luke 17:28-30 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded. But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. Matthew 24:37-38 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, This has happened before, Christ warned them, the people didn't believe and He brought fire and brimstone, floods and destroyed them all. The same thing is happening today, the signs are there, the warnings have gone out, and all is looking the other way and saying the same old thing, it isn't going to happen, He Loves Us! We live under Grace! Yet Christ warns us of the last days, and he tells us to be prepared, look and watch the signs. I John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Mark 13:6-10 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. And the gospel must first be published among all nations. Beware of False Teachers, there teachings will send you to hell! He warns us, they will deceive many. Look how many religions there are today! How many read from the Holy Bible? How many teachings can you get out of one book? Make sure the Bible says it, not the teaching of ones belief. He speaks of wars, earthquakes, famine, look at our earth. Man is destroying the necessary elements it takes to survive. The air, water, is polluted, we are destroying our rain forest, we have to protect animals or they will go extinct. God is using the elements to send us signs, but we still refuse to listen and head his warnings, the signs are there! Zechariah 12:2-3 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. 1Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Matthew 24:21-22 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Watch Israel! We are coming to a close dear friend, Jerusalem, Christ said would be a burden to all. Watch the news, Jerusalem is a very troubled city. This will be the focus point at the end, Christ gave us the signs, the warnings, and what the end will be like. If He didn't return as He promised, there will be no flesh saved, man would destroy all. Take heed to the warnings He left us, be prepared to me thy God. -------------------- Romans 9:11-24 Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote! Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged |  listener Advanced Member Member # 338 posted                    is it just the Catholic Church doing this sort of service for sinners? Posts: 119 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged |  listener Advanced Member Member # 338 posted                    in my embryonic spiritual state i tend to make simplistic statements, but we have a straightforward choice here ... biblical law or civil law. The Holy Bible states that homosexuality is a sin. it is forbidden. those who now frame our civil laws obviously are not influenced by biblical law. we follow biblical law if we want to, and civil law because we have to. or do we? HOMOSEXUALITY IS A DISGUSTING SIN. are you afraid to make your voice heard? okay. i'll say it again for you. HOMOSEXUALITY IS FORBIDDEN BY GOD. IT IS A DISGUSTING SIN. in another thread Mac asked if satan was in control of the mainstream churches. what did you think? what do you think now? the church in Kindgo's posting is being controlled by satan. it's is acting in direct contradiction to God's law, and is protected by civil law. would you send your kids there? people don't want to send their kids to church. they are afraid to send them to school. this is a very provocative posting for me Kindgo. so i'll confess something and ask for your forgiveness. i disagree with you a great deal. on dogma. i visualised you as one of those people wearing a sandwich board with 'the end is nigh' written in big letters. at 25 i don't want to believe in end time prophecies. when i read stuff like this and see photos of the weirdoes draping themselves around an altar, i have to say, i don't mind if we have run our course. so be it. one alternative is to run up into the mountains and try to live decently in isolation. there is a tragedy in that. let's stay here and stand our ground. that satan creature hasn't got a chance. i am white. i am color blind. all men are equal. i am a man. women are more than my equal. to run racism and sexism into the argument is another ploy by satans hoardes. the act of homosexuality is disgusting. the act of homosexuality is a mortal sin. God Bless you all. Posts: 119 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged |  Miguel Advanced Member Member # 47 posted                          That’s it for me, I am calling my FATHER right now to come and pick us up! I have enough of this barbaric act in Jesus name. aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh -------------------- Romans 9:11-24 Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote! Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged |  Kindgo Advanced Member Member # 2 posted                       web page Mass displays unity Service for gay community draws support, protests Mon, Sep 16, 2002 By JENNIFER WARNICK Observer-Dispatch By ELIZABETH A. MUNDSCHENCK, Observer-Dispatch Clergy and congregants recite The Lord's Prayer Sunday during a Mass for gays, lesbians, bisexual and transgendered people at St. Francis DeSales Catholic Church in Utica. More than 400 people attended the Mass, including a handful of local leaders. By ELIZABETH A. MUNDSCHENK, Observer-Dispatch The Rev. Fred Daley, right, talks with protesters outside St. Francis De Sales Roman Catholic Church before a Mass for gays, lesbians, bisexual and transgendered people. St. Francis DeSales Catholic Church was packed Sunday -- both with people and with rainbows -- a symbol of unity in the gay community. The event went off following a week of controversy that included criticism from the local Right to Life Committee and the removal of the Mass's organizer from a Sept. 11 public speaking role. More than 400 people, including a handful of local leaders and clergy, gathered to attend the area's first Mass for gays, lesbians, bisexual and transgendered people led by the Rev. Fred Daley. The main message at the Mass revolved around acceptance, love, forgiveness, peace and unity. "I just want you to know you're very welcome here today," Daley told the congregation as he started the service. He wore a rainbow stole over his white robes. "We are one family," he said. The event garnered opposition early last week when a Right to Life group pronounced it "against the church." Sunday's service was drawn even further into controversy when, because of his involvement in hosting the Mass, Daley was removed Tuesday as the main speaker at "One Region United," Wednesday's memorial event for the victims and heroes of Sept. 11. Utica's Assistant Fire Chief Russell Brooks, backed by Mayor Timothy Julian, threatened to pull out of the Sept. 11 ceremony if Daley didn't step aside. Brooks and Julian said Daley's involvement in the gay community would have brought unwanted controversy and "stress" to the Sept. 11 memorial. And as expected, Sunday's Mass did not pass without disapproval. Though inside there were rainbows, outside there was rain -- and more than a dozen protesters to the Mass despite the weather. The demonstrators, many of them from the Oneida County Right to Life group, held signs on the steps of the church before the service: "Gay sex is evil," "Love the sinner, hate the sin" and "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve." "It's not my truth or the perceived truth, but THE truth," explained one objector to the Mass, Nicholas Parisi of Utica. "We oppose evil in every quarter." According to Parisi, it's not homosexuals that the protesters were opposed to, but the fact that they have sex outside the bonds of marriage. For that reason, the group also believes that the Roman Catholic church should not sanction a Mass for gays and lesbians. "You're not a homosexual if you're not practicing. It's not the person, it's what they do," he said. "It goes against all the church's teachings. Sodomy is a sin -- it's wrong." There were also two young men who held signs that said, "The Bible is just a book" and "Catholicism preaches intolerance" and "Free your minds: Abolish organized religion." As people walked up the steps of the church, the Right to Life protesters would shout to them as well as to Daley, who was in the entryway. Daley merely invited all of the sign-holders to stay for the Mass. "Don't listen to them, Father Fred -- don't listen," one of the two men protesting religious intolerance yelled about the Right to Life demonstrators. "You go inside and have a good service." When he took his place at the front of the church, Daley was met by thunderous applause and cheers. "It would be nice if this happened every Sunday," he said, smiling. Flanked by rainbow ribbons and a rainbow flag-covered altar, Daley received laughs and a second standing ovation when he said, "I'm very happy that I wasn't uninvited to be the speaker today." He has spent the week reflecting on his "uninviting" to the Sept. 11 ceremony, thinking "what in the world does that event have to do with a Mass at St. Francis. He decided there was indeed a very deep connection. Whether it was the young men who turned planes into the World Trade Center or the young men who drove Mathew Shepherd into a field in Wyoming and beat him to death for being gay, the root is the same. "They were all driven to insanity by ignorance -- by fear that turns into hatred, and hatred that turns into violence," Daley said. "The bottom line is ... all the issues that bring people to suffer are the same, whether it's terrorism or racism or homophobia." Rather than perpetuate violence, he said, people should seek the truth together and it will "set us all free." "When in conflict, let's not try to win, destroy or dissolve the enemy. Let's disarm them," he said. "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword." "We can't use the Bible to hit people over the head with," he said, noting that he doesn't think modern theologians are able to use the Bible to prove homosexuality a sin. He admitted to feeling angry, bitter and embarrassed after being removed as the speaker at "One Region United." However, he said, we should all take the energy that comes from those feelings and use it for the good. "I think the last several days have been the greatest teaching moments on homophobia the Mohawk Valley has ever seen," he said. "I challenge all of us to use this moment as a time to move our community out of ignorance, hatred, fear and violence." The key to breaking that cycle is education, he said, which will defeat the myths and stereotypes about gay people that come from as far back as the Middle Ages. Two fundamentals of that education are first, that no one can choose his or her sexual orientation and second, that the Bible cannot be used to evaluate one's sexuality, Daley said. "We can't use the Bible to hit people over the head with," he said, noting that he doesn't think modern theologians are able to use the Bible to prove homosexuality a sin. The Catholic church and others should not be so obsessed with what people do in private, he said. "I didn't tell anyone at the 8 a.m. Mass or the 11 a.m. Mass (what to do in their bedrooms), so I'm certainly not going to tell anyone here at the 3 p.m. Mass," he said, receiving more cheers and applause. "Certainly no one is going to push me to stand at the pulpit and explain what is intimate." At the end of the service, Beverly Bartlett, coordinator of the Mohawk Valley Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender organization, presented Daley with a clock commending him for his courage. Bartlett said sometime soon the organization would like to work with St. Francis DeSales to establish a monthly Mass for gay and lesbian people. "We can walk out of this building and commit ourselves to speak the truth," Daley said. "If we do that there will be someday that our public officials will maybe even hang the rainbow flag." After the service, people stayed for refreshments, to visit and to sign a card to Bishop James Moynihan, thanking him for allowing the Mass. Daley said he spoke to Bishop James Moynihan and Roman Catholic Diocese of Syracuse officials last week to clarify the service and he expected no opposition for Sunday's Mass. Syracuse and Binghamton area churches have had similar services, he said. The Rev. Paula McRae of the United Methodist Church was one of the local pastors in attendance -- others included clergy from the Jewish, Unitarian Universalist and Presbyterian religions, and other local Catholic priests. McRae said a protester approached her in the rear of the church with a video camera. The woman was videotaping the service "to send to the bishop." "I told her 'Jesus is for everyone,'" McRae said. "I believe in the compassion of Christ. Jesus would want it to be this way," she said, gesturing to the crowd. "Jesus would want everyone here." Among the local officials at the service were Utica Common Councilman Bill Phillips and Oneida County Workforce Development Director Dave Mathis, who attended the Mass to show their support for Daley. "The turnout showed that some people were willing to cross a picket line to show where they stood," Phillips said. "Somehow we have a tendency to think we can separate our bigotry," Mathis said, adding that racists, sexists, homophobes and others are all the same -- and none of it is justified. "I think our city took a black eye." Being black and living in Utica all his life, Mathis said, he deals with this sort of thing every day. "But when it happens to someone else, you really realize what's going on," he said. I have some more photos I will add later..got to go -------------------- God bless, Kindgo Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success. Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged |

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