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Author
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Topic: Should women preach?
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Gospel_Syntax
Advanced Member
Member # 2252
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posted
I have seen women as the only thing holding the church together when the husbands are arrested or murdered for preaching the gospel. A woman named Junia, I believe, was an Apostle of the early church. Some may argue over titles, preacher, teacher, whatever. If we are Christians, we are all ministers to each other and to tell others of Christ. That is still preaching and teaching. According to Jesus, there is no difference between men and women in Christ. Paul's letter claiming women did not open their mouths in his church, from what I understand, goes back to Hebrew customs which Paul himself chastised Peter for doing--wanting Gentiles to be Jews. Gentiles were not given the law, only the Jews. We are not to be Jews but Christian Gentiles. We have the circumcision of the heart. We are grafted into the vine that makes the race of Jews God's chosen people. We are not a plant unto ourselves. Being partakers of the grace and not the law, we are free from the law. Women are no longer under the law if men are not either. I ordain women freely and willingly. The Holy Spirit has not burdened me with the knowledge of this being wrong but comforts me with the belief that this is the correct thing to do. ![[angel3]](graemlins/angel3.gif)
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Gospel_Syntax
Posts: 21 | From: Wyoming | Registered: Oct 2003
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WayCoolMike
Advanced Member
Member # 2103
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posted
Could someone please tell me any scripture that says it is wrong for a woman to pastor. Our church has a woman pastor and even with some of her shortcomings it is undeniably true that God is working through her.
Posts: 35 | From: Lacrosse, Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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Disciple4Christ
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Member # 1838
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posted
Amen. God's Word is immutable. He said,
"Behold...I change not!"
The pastor of the first church I ever attended many years ago used to be fond of saying..."If men won't rise up and fulfill their calling to teach God's Word, then God will raise up women who will do it!" (End quote).
No He won't.
The roles God has ordained and designed for men and women are unchangeable in this age, and it has been by God's perfect design and will and purpose from the Beginning; as to what men are called to do, and what women are called to do.
It is both sexes stepping out of God's order, and asserting their own will that has caused so much grief and dis-order in the Church today.
Especially in America.
So...what this will eventually bring, is God's judgement...not Him changing His will, and raising up women to do what He made man to do.
"He who called you is faithful and He will do it!"
How the Holy Spirit must be grieved by this disorder!
Here is God's voice on this subject:
Isaiah 3:12,
[b]"As for My people, children are their oppressors, And women rule over them. O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err, And destroy the way of your paths." ![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif)
In Christ's Love,
mark
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His Grace abounds.
Posts: 68 | From: These United States | Registered: Jul 2003
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Amen, Linda ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif) ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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SmileyD
Advanced Member
Member # 1743
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posted
AMEN to Homeschooler!!!
Posts: 24 | Registered: Jul 2003
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
It is interesting to me that we see that Word of God is valid when it fits what we see to be a reasonable picture of life and then we throw it out, when it doesnt fit OUR view.
The fact that most of the men in China were imprisioned in the 1950's doesnt change God's WORD on the position and role of women as pastors or keepers of the flock!
It may have been the "natural" thing for those women to step up to the plate and assume those vacant roles, but it is not the scriptural thing.
How do you know that 400 million might not be Christian today, had the will of God been followed with regard to the authority in the Body of Christ?
How do you know that men who were left might have been reached and moved by the Holy Spirit Alone, to fill those vacancies had not the women filled them first?
How do you know that had the women invested their time in the support,encouragement, and prayer of and for the men that remained, that they might have been raised up to be mighty men of God under the headship and spiritual direction of Christ rather than under the spiritual direction of women?
It may have been easier for the Gospel to continue at the hand of these women pastors and preacher's; but it is a distorted Gospel that does not recognize God's established authority between men and women, and the Body and Christ.
God's ways are not our ways! There is a way that seems right to a man, but leads to distruction!
I dont care how right or good a situation looks; if it comes out of principles that dont line up with God's word, it is not right or good.
God's will NEVER NEVER NEVER contradict's HIS WORD.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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SmileyD
Advanced Member
Member # 1743
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posted
Can you provide Scripture that would support your opinion on women pastors/preachers?
Posts: 24 | Registered: Jul 2003
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pastorkang
Community Member
Member # 1902
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posted
Women should be allowed to preach and also pastor. If you have been to China and visited some of the underground churches, you will agree with me that women do make marvelous pastors. After the great persecution in the late 1950s, most Chinese male pastors were arrested, imprisoned or murdered.
In their places, the ladies stood up and took over the pastoring of the orphaned churches. Today, the rough estimate of Christians in China is around 100 million - a far cry from less than 2 million in the 1950s.
The Lord does not choose a person because of gender,race, skin color, education or language. As a male pastor, I have the privilege of meeting many lady pastors. To say that women are allow to preach and not pastor is almost like saying that a woman is allow to breastfeed but not be the parent. We have to evaluate each individual according to what God has placed in his or her life.
Posts: 16 | From: Singapore | Registered: Aug 2003
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Hey SetFree,
Something to think about!
Just because the men are failing to full fill their obligation to the Scriptures, does not excuse women stepping out of their role to help Yahweh.
We have another example of man and woman trying to help Yahweh that has plagued all mankind for centuries. ( Abraham and Sarah )Ishmael represent the will of the flesh, Isaac represent the will of Yahweh.
Yahweh has a plan, men and women just need to follow it.
When we do not, we cause all kinds of problems.
Women in Ministry?
by Paul Jett
Occasionally I, Paul, am asked about the place of women in ministry. Ministry is a term that needs clarification about whether it is "official" ministry or just everyday service. "Official" ministry would encompass apostle, evangelist, prophet, pastor/teacher, deacon and elder/bishop, even though the latter two are the only ones that are specifically mentioned as offices recognized by the church, as seen in I Timothy 3.1-13 and Titus 1.5-9.
In Greek, there is only one word used for woman/wife and one word used for man/husband. gunaikov/gunaikos is translated as "woman" 129 times and as wife "92" times in the New Testament. andra/andra is translated as "man" 156 times and "husband" 50 times in the New Testament, but of course, some of the times it is translated as "man", "man" is a generic reference to male and female combined. This is why the phrase, "the husband of one wife" (the man of one woman), means that a man is the only one that can physically meet the qualifications of bishop/elder/deacon. Obviously, a woman can't be "the man of one woman".
OK, so what about the other "ministries"? Since it is forbidden for a woman to speak in the church meeting, (I Cor. 14.34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands (andrav/andras - which could be a husband or even a father) at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." I Tim. 2.11 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.") it is going to be very hard for them to have a functioning ministry. When a second prohibition about teaching or usurping authority over men is considered, (I Tim. 2.12 "But I suffer not a woman (gunaiki/gunaiki) to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man (androv/andros), but to be in silence.") there are even greater difficulties.
I guess that leaves women totally out of "ministries"? By no means! Some areas are perfectly acceptable ministries for women, as I show in the message (duplicated below) I posted to a discussion board some time ago .
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Posted - 04/22/2003 : 10:48:53 PM
I was reading what I consider to be a fairly modern approach to the question of women in ministry positions posted on the home page of Christus Victor Ministries (CVM http://www.gregboyd.org) and felt a need to question some of what I read.
Some of the statements are made from a position of incomplete knowledge, i.e. "But I don’t know of any church that would turn away a woman with a question and send her home to ask her husband." The Amish and Mennonites have done this very thing since the very early 1500's and the Waterland Mennonite connection to the General Baptists of England is well documented. This would mean the SBC has only continued with their historic position in rejecting women in a pastoral position and this action has nothing to do with fundamentalism.
quote:
In chapter 11 Paul says that when a woman prays or prophesies in church, she should have a veil on her head. But in order to pray or prophesy in church, a woman would have to be speaking. Apparently Paul was okay with women praying and prophesying in church as long as they are veiled. So what does this mean 3 chapters later when Paul says that it’’s a disgrace for women to speak in church?
If Dr. C. C. Ryrie (Ryrie Study Bible) and Dr. S. Lewis Johnson (I Corinthians, Wycliffle Bible Commentary) are consulted, it would be noted that there isn't anything in I Corinthians 11 that would suggest a cultural application. The head covering is still applicable and there can be examples of praying and prophesying that do not include speaking. It should be obvious that praying is different from speaking, even though some people try to preach a sermon in their prayers. I Chronicles 25.1-7 tells us "who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals:" and some of those "who" were the three daughters of Heman. In Exodus 15.20-21 we find this about the prophetess Miriam, "And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances. 21 And Miriam answered them, Sing ye to the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously; the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea." " Answered them" is obviously the women mentioned in verse 20, not a group of men.
quote:
"Judges 4––5 tells the story of a remarkable woman named Deborah, who served as judge over all Israel and rallied the army of Israel to victory over the Canaanites."
Samson was also a judge over Israel, but that certainly doesn't imply spiritual oversight. Judges 17.6 and 21.25 tell us, "every man did that which was right in his own eyes", because they had no king.
quote:
"1 Timothy 1:5 reveals that Timothy’’s mother Eunice and his grandmother Lois passed their faith on to him."
Is this anything other than what would be expected of and even commanded to any Jewish mother and grandmother? Deut. 6.7 "And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up."
quote:
"They did not make a clear distinction between prophets and preachers because both were responsible for speaking the word of God under the Holy Spirit’’s anointing"
This has already been shown to be thinking that may be confined to too narrow of a definition for prophesy. The pianist, organist and song leader are prophesying too!
quote;
"In 16:1––2, Paul refers to a woman named Phoebe as a deacon and describes her as a fellow laborer for the gospel."
In actuality, Paul uses the feminine form (diakonon) of servant that is properly translated in the KJV. Otherwise, "Rulers" in Romans 13.3-4 who are servants/ministers (diakonos) would suddenly become deacons of the church. Ryrie, in The Role of Women in the Church, Moody Press, 1970, addresses this matter and concludes Phoebe was not a deaconess. In reference to diakonos and etc. "It is the most general term used for all kinds of ministry, and in this general sense there is of course a male and female diaconate in the New Testament." (Ryrie, p 86) "Women workers, yes; women deacons, no." (Ryrie, p 91)
Even though I could continue with more examples, I think I have presented an ample amount to make the point without getting into the criteria of being the husband of one wife. I Cor 11.3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."
Please don't think this has been a personal attack, since it certainly isn't intended that way.
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Another very important ministry is that of the older women to the younger women, (Titus 2.3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.) that is difficult for men to accomplish without any accusations of impropriety being made (you know how tongues would wag about that!). So, there is a gap the men can't fill? Most assuredly! Not only is it improper, but men don't think like women and there is a need to understand the difference in that mode of thinking. There are also some subjects that are of a nature that shouldn't be discussed between men and women, but it would be acceptable for women to have a godly discussion about it among themselves (no gossip, please).
You may ask, "What about freedom/liberty? What you are suggesting is legalism." When you say "legalism" do you mean to say, "we are now under grace"? If so, there is a need to consider that grace is not the freedom to do what we want, but the desire and power to do what we ought (Philippians 2.13; Jude 4). 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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JesusisGod2
Community Member
Member # 1825
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
The problems lies in different difinitions of the word preach.
if your understanding is to preach is to proclaim, than yes women are to preach.
if your understanding is for a women, to stand in the place of authority and proclaim teach the Scriptures to the collective Body of Yeshua, then no a women can not preach.
I have to agree with you on this 100%. it almost sounds chauvinistic, but it is what the bible teaches.
and there are woman who are very grounded in the word, and are very capable of doing so. But for some reason God says no.
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"Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in Thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer" Psalms 19:14
Posts: 14 | From: Lockport Illinois | Registered: Jul 2003
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setfree
Community Member
Member # 1359
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posted
I tried to figure out which way to vote but got hung up on the word Preach. Called to be a Pastor no, proclaim the gospel yes.
I don't think the women are the problem. If more men would pick up the torch, most women would be happy. Many are filling the gap we men have left open. Not much different than the state of parenthood where God intended 2 to raise families and yet half of our families are being raised by single parents, usually mothers trying to fill the gap. Sad statment ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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The Truth will set You Free. Make sure you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Posts: 15 | From: Florida | Registered: Apr 2003
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
The problems lies in different difinitions of the word preach.
if your understanding is to preach is to proclaim, than yes women are to preach.
if your understanding is for a women, to stand in the place of authority and proclaim teach the Scriptures to the collective Body of Yeshua, then no a women can not preach.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Christ for the children
Advanced Member
Member # 159
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posted
My opinion only, for what it's worth! I may not agree with my pastor, I don't know, but it's not worth an argument! I agree with 'helpforhomeschoolers', I have no major problem with women preachers. I do have a problem with women pastors, I have a deep conviction that is a job for a man. But, man needs help and advice at times, and women can give as good advice as men. To me, if you are witnessing to lost souls about the Lord, you are preaching in a form. And the Bible commands ALL to be witnesses, it does not say MEN should witness. To me, ALL is everyone, not just man or woman. Let us ALL go witness for our Lord!!
Posts: 120 | From: Florida | Registered: Jul 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
We are all (women included) called to preach the Gospel. The first person Jesus told to preach the Risen Lord was a woman!
Women are NOT called to pastor flocks; this is a very different thing than preaching the Gospel!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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leeprice
Advanced Member
Member # 1377
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posted
Some people believe that women preaching is biblical, some believe it's not. What do you think?
Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 42 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.
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7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
Matthew 7
Posts: 55 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2003
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