|
Author
|
Topic: Please Sign Petition to Defend Israel
|
RioLion
unregistered
|
posted
Very good comments on Israel and from both Scripture and historical references.
What we are now left wondering is whether or not Phillip is capable of grasping the truth or does he desire to keep waving that old obsolete confed rag? ![[crying]](graemlins/crying.gif)
IP: Logged | 
|
|
Paula
Advanced Member
Member # 551
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by not-yet-banned:
quote:
The Road Map plan for peace threatens the integrity and safety of Israel, rewards terrorists by releasing them from prison so that they can once again prey on innocent Jews, and divides Jerusalem. President Bush says 2005 is still the target date to establish a Palestinian state. We cannot sit idle on this issue.
LOL!! Terrorists are rewarded the world over. What are the judges who sit on the benches of courts of law to be classified as, if not as terrorists? Is not Bush, who has killed 5000 largely innocent Iraqis to date, one of the world greatest modern terrorists? One terrorist fights another. But whom you call a terrorist depends on your political view point.
The fact is, that the Palestinians need a state. Everyone needs a state. In fact to deprive someone of statehood is probably a denial of basic human rights. The Palestinians should have a state. Only with the creation of a state can there be any cessation of international terrorism. [/QB]
It is imperative not to buy into the concept of moral relativity when you are referring to terrorism vis-a-vis a legitimately created, sovereign nation, such as the U.S. or Israel. Comparing a terrorist government to a legitimate state is most certainly not a valid analogy to be used in building a cogent argument. Creation of a state where one is not required will only serve to exacerbate terrorism, not eliminate it.
Despite how the name is twisted and misused today, Palestine is the regional placename that was inherited thousands of years ago, encompassing present-day Jordan as well. As you probably already know, before Israel was founded if one referred to a "Palestinian" that always meant a Jew, never an Arab.
So they dress up their dismal regimes as "republics", pretend Israeli Arabs aren't freer in Israel than at home, and above all try to remake themselves as victims of Israel and the West using the worn out symbology of the colonial era, from Marxist theology, from the Wahhabi 'jihad' ideology, and from the Nazi era and Holocaust.
Hence, the granting of a state to the so-called "Palestinians" translates into nothing more than catering to and legitimizing the demands of terrorists.
Posts: 90 | From: Arizona | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Paula
Advanced Member
Member # 551
|
posted
My quote marks got messed up so I had to edit this one and take them all out, but I will answer directly:
Philip, kindly provide proof of your assertions with respect to Palestinian Arabs - any link will do.
Bear in mind that the Lord respects his covenants - ALL of them. Israel is a state that has been LEGALLY created. You might do well to familiarize yourself with the link I provided and discontinue posting your hateful, anti-Semitic propaganda and other crude comments.
Personally, I don't think you would recognize an issue if you tripped over one, so may I suggest you go back and re-read my previous posts - Israel is a LEGAL state, created under Divine as well as civil law.
Insofar as the issue of occupied territories is concerned, this was compromised under the failed Hudna Agreement. Israel should not have to give up any more land.
As far as my integrity is concerned, I think you would do well to contemplate your own.
Posts: 90 | From: Arizona | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Paula
Advanced Member
Member # 551
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by PhilipIHS:
[QB] quote:
Originally posted by rapturewatcher: Palestinians want to kill Jews! They need to go back to Jordan or Egypt whereever it is they came from, I know its not from Israel.
Palestinians came from Palestine. They are not Egyptians or Jordanians. And, they want to kill Jews because Jews brutally occupy their land and kill them in far greater numbers.
An Arab-Palestinian nation is just another myth. In actuality, since there is no Palestinian culture or language as such, the correct term would be Israeli Arabs instead of Palestinians, and that is how most Arabs who live there today refer to themselves. From what I'm able to make of it, Jordan sounds like it should be their homeland, not Israel. Moreover, let's not forget that Arafat himself is an Egyptian! ![[biglaugha]](graemlins/biglaugha.gif) There is no doubt that Israel belongs to the Jews - by both Divine and legal right.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's a brief overview of the creation of the state of Israel:
In 1917 Great Britain issued the Balfour Declaration for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 80% of Palestine to Transjordan. Thus, Jordan covers the majority of the land of Palestine under British Mandate. Jordan also includes the majority of the Arabs who lived there. In other words, Jordan is the Arab portion of Palestine.
The residents of Palestine are called "Palestinians". Since Palestine includes both modern day Israel and Jordan both Arab and Jewish residents of this area were referred to as "Palestinians".
It was only after the Jews re-inhabited their historic homeland of Judea and Samaria, that the myth of an Arab Palestinian nation was created and marketed worldwide. Jews come from Judea, not Palestinians. There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. "Palestinians" are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The great majority of Arabs in greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion.
Much of the Arab population in this area actually migrated into Israel and Judea and Samaria from the surrounding Arab countries in the past 100 years. The rebirth of Israel was accompanied by economic prosperity for the region. Arabs migrated to this area to find employment and enjoy the higher standard of living. In documents not more than hundred years, the area is described as a scarcely populated region. Jews by far were the majority in Jerusalem over the small Arab minority. Until the Oslo agreement the major source of income for Arab residents was employment in the Israeli sector. To this day, many Arabs try to migrate into Israel with various deceptions to become a citizen of Israel.
Even the Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, Arafat himself, is not a "Palestinian". He was born in Egypt. The famous "Palestinian covenant" states that Palestinians are "an integral part of the Arab nation" -- a nation which is blessed with a sparsely populated land mass 660 times the size of tiny Israel (Judea, Samaria and Gaza included).
All attempts to claim Arab sovereignty over Israel of today, should be seen with their real intention: The destruction of Israel as a Jewish state and the only bulwark of the Judeo-Christian Western civilization in the Middle East.
For more details, see http://212.179.113.170/sites/hasbara/admin/homepage/hasbara_popup.asp?src=www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/#Maps
Posts: 90 | From: Arizona | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Paula
Advanced Member
Member # 551
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by PhilipIHS: BTW, calling me a name will only prove that you have no case.
Philip, this is the only point you've made so far on this thread which makes any sense, so I'll have to agree. The rest of what you stated simply isn't the case at all, and I don't understand what your motivation is for writing such things, let alone where or how you came up with your factoids.
Unfortunately, there are numerous myths that are being circulated on the Net about Israel and the Jewish people. May I recommend the following link, "Myths and Facts Online, Israel's Roots." It contains a treasure trove of information which will serve to dispel many, if not all, of those myths:
http://212.179.113.170/sites/hasbara/admin/homepage/hasbara_popup.asp?src=www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/#Maps
For instance, regarding the issues of property ownership and civil rights in Israel:
"Israel's Law of Return grants automatic citizenship to Jews, but non-Jews are also eligible to become citizens under naturalization procedures similar to those in other countries.
Approximately 1,000,000 Muslim and Christian Arabs, Druze, Baha'is, Circassians and other ethnic groups also are represented in Israel's population. The presence in Israel of thousands of dark-skinned Jews from Ethiopia, Yemen and India is the best refutation of the calumny against Zionism. In a series of historic airlifts, labeled Moses (1984), Joshua (1985) and Solomon (1991), Israel rescued almost 42,000 members of the ancient Ethiopian Jewish community.
Zionism does not discriminate against anyone. Israel's open and democratic character, and its scrupulous protection of the religious and political rights of Christians and Muslims, rebut the charge of exclusivity. Moreover, anyone — Jew or non-Jew, Israeli, American, or Saudi, black, white, yellow or purple — can be a Zionist."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Regarding compatability and friendship between the U.S. and Israel:
"There exists a deep friendship between Israel and the U.S. - between our peoples and countries. The basis of this friendship is common values, a commitment to democratic values, freedom, peace, and common interests, including the drive toward regional stability and preventing terrorism and violence."
— Ariel Sharon
"We will speak up for our principles and we will stand up for our friends in the world. And one of our most important friends is the State of Israel."
— George W. Bush
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.hasbara.us/cadre1.htm
Posts: 90 | From: Arizona | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Trafield
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
As long as Israel illegally occupies their neighbors' land and brutalizes the people on that land, Israel will not be winning any neighbors as friends.
Again you are showing your rotting fruit.
You would know Israel has a legal right to the land if you valued the Laws of God over the laws of man. Note the True, Legal boundaries of Israel:
Genesis 15:18-21
18On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying,
“To your descendants I have given this land,
From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates:
19the Kenite and the Kenizzite and the Kadmonite
20and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Rephaim
21and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Girgashite and the Jebusite.”
IP: Logged |
|
|
Paula
Advanced Member
Member # 551
|
posted
We Christians need to support our Jewish friends in Israel in this time of struggle for their very lives. Very soon, the whole world will turn against Israel. I pray to God that America is not in that company. God still means what he said, "I will bless those who bless Israel, and I will curse those who curse Israel." So I have signed and circulated this Petition, along with others like it that I come across.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Genesis 12
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's the full text of a letter that was submitted to Pres. Bush this year by the Interfaith Zionist Leadership Summit following their March on Washington this year:
May 19, 2003
The Honorable George W. Bush
President of the United States
Washington, DC 20500
Dear Mr. President:
We commend you on your courageous decision to remove Saddam Hussein from power and promote democratic institutions in the Middle East. Your leadership is providing a real opportunity to defeat terrorism and bring freedom and stability to a troubled region of the world.
It is for that very reason that we want to share with you our deep concerns about your well-intentioned road map leading to the creation of a Palestinian state. When you outlined the road map in your landmark speech of June 24, 2002 you laid down very clear “guide posts.” You called for a “new and different Palestinian leadership… not compromised by terror.” You called on that new leadership to wage a “sustained fight against the terrorists and dismantle their infrastructure.” You made it clear there must be real action on these requirements, not just empty words.
Already those clear requirements are being undermined by the other members of the so-called “Quartet” – the European Union, the United Nations and Russia. You and the United States are being pressured to show we are “evenhanded” and are being urged to pressure Israel to make concessions if there is merely “progress” in these areas.
Mr. President, it would be morally reprehensible for the United States to be “evenhanded” between democratic Israel, a reliable friend and ally that shares our values, and the terrorist infested Palestinian infrastructure that refuses to accept the right of Israel to exist at all.
Americans were rightly shocked and horrified after September 11th, 2001 to see celebrations in the Palestinian neighborhoods expressing joy at the death of over 3,000 of our fellow citizens in New York, at the Pentagon and in the skies over Pennsylvania. Similar demonstrations broke out at the news of early U.S. military setbacks in the Iraq war and every terrorist bombing in Israel is also greeted with grotesque displays of glee. Unfortunately, public opinion polls show at least half of the Palestinian people support the current terrorist intifada against Israel. In view of this reality, the “road map” could lead to a disaster.
The way to guarantee that it doesn’t is to follow simple, but important, principles including:
1. There can be no viable peace unless Israel’s neighbors concede its right to exist.
2. The Palestinian leadership must end the propaganda that permeates schools, cultural institutions and government-owned media, that teaches Nazi-inspired hatred of Jews and incitements to violence.
3. Terrorism against Israel, sponsored by Syria and Iran and carried out by Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, the Al Aqsa Brigades and other terrorist groups, must stop and the terrorist infrastructure must be dismantled.
4. Israel has a right to defend itself when attacked and should not be pressured by the United States, the United Nations or anyone else to be passive in the face of attacks on its citizens.
5. There is no moral equivalency between the free nation of Israel that believes in the consent of the governed and individual human dignity and the terrorist thugs that celebrate the deaths of innocent Israelis and Americans.
Mr. President we hope and trust that in the tough months of negotiations ahead you will adhere to these principles, which you have embraced before. We look forward to working with you to insure that there is a just peace in the Middle East that recognizes democratic Israel’s right to exist free from terrorism and for all people of good will in the region to raise their children in peace and security.
Sincerely,
Gary L. Bauer
American Values
Frank Eiklor
President
Shalom International
Rev. Jerry Falwell
Chancellor
Liberty University
Joseph Farah
President
WorldNetDaily
Janet Folger
President
Faith-2-Action
Rev. John Hagee
Pastor
John Hagee Ministries
Richard A. Hellman
President
The Christians’ Israel Public Action Campaign
James M. Hutchens
Chairman
Christian Friends of Israel
Dr. D. James Kennedy
Pastor
Coral Ridge Ministries
Dr. Richard Land
President
The Religious & Ethics Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention
Ester Levens
CEO & Founder
National Unity Coalition For Israel
David A. Lewis
President
Christians United For Israel
Michael Little
President
The Christian Broadcasting Network
Marlin Maddoux
Chairman
USA Radio Network
Ed McAteer
President
Religious Roundtable
Elwood McQuaid
Editor-in-Chief
Friends of Israel
Rev. George Morrison
Senior Pastor
Faith Bible Chapel International
William Murray
President
Religious Freedom Coalition
Janet Parshall
Nationally Syndicated Talk-Show Host
Rev. Lou Sheldon
Chairman
Traditional Values Coalition
William E. Sutter
Executive Director
Friends of Israel
Paul Weyrich
Chairman & CEO
Free Congress Foundation
Herbert Zweibon
Chairman
Americans For a Safe Israel
For more info, see:
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/5/202003b.asp
Posts: 90 | From: Arizona | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Trafield
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Trafield, you do not serve Christ when you support lies, even if you're lying to yourself as well.
I think I will pass on any advice from you on serving Christ, thank you very much. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Lies? You did not even try and respond to the scripture I posted...not surprising since it goes against your anti-semitism. You got a problem with God's Word?
When you say "the Jews" do you realize there are(you better sit down for this one) believing Jews? Do you realize that Jesus and most of the apostles where (gasp) JEWS! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Your fruit has been exposed and it is smelling pretty rotten right now. It is no wonder you would rather point people to your confederate flag than to Jesus, for you are of the world. I pray your eyes will soon be opened and realize that God is in control.
Concerning your posts, I will consider the source from now on. ![[wiggle7]](graemlins/wiggle7.gif)
But I wonder how long the moderators will tolerate your antisemitism? ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif)
IP: Logged |
|
|
Trafield
unregistered
|
posted
Phillip, your obvious anger seems misplaced and unrighteous. God is in control.
Concerning your comments on the Jews:
Though unbelieving Jews will die in their sins, God's promises of restoration to the people and the Holy Land itself are eternal.
The only reason we gentiles have the gift of salvation is because of the unbelief of the Jews. We gentiles are wild olive branches that have been grafted in with the natural Jewish branches, and both share in the nourishment of the same Root.
Some of the natural branches have been broken off so that we gentiles may be grafted in. These broken branches are no longer attached to the nourishment of the Root and will die if they remain detached.
But we are warned strongly against boasting over these broken branches. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare us either. Yet, if the broken branches do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted back in again.
Therefore, we are not to condemn the broken branches, but to speak the Truth to them in love.
Jerusalem is the place God has chosen to put his name. It is God's Holy Land, regardless of who "occupies" it.
Phillip you need to meditate on the following very carefully, and I pray your Spirit will be open to His Word:
Romans 11:13-32
13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen (the Jews) and save some of them.
15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
25For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27“This is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,
31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy.
32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
IP: Logged |
|
|
rapturewatcher
Advanced Member
Member # 94
|
posted
Saddam had WMD and was going to use them!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...requestid=49921
Revealed: the Iraqi colonel who told MI6 that Saddam could launch WMD within 45 minutes
By Con Coughlin
(Filed: 07/12/2003)
An Iraqi colonel who commanded a front-line unit during the build-up to the war in Iraq has revealed how he passed top secret information to British intelligence warning that Saddam Hussein had deployed weapons of mass destruction that could be used on the battlefield against coalition troops in less than 45 minutes.
Lt-Col al-Dabbagh, 40, who was the head of an Iraqi air defence unit in the western desert, said that cases containing WMD warheads were delivered to front-line units, including his own, towards the end of last year.
He said they were to be used by Saddam's Fedayeen paramilitaries and units of the Special Republican Guard when the war with coalition troops reached "a critical stage".
The containers, which came from a number of factories on the outskirts of Baghdad, were delivered to the army by the Fedayeen and were distributed to the front-line units under cover of darkness.
In an exclusive interview with the Telegraph, Col al-Dabbagh said that he believed he was the source of the British Government's controversial claim, published in September last year in the intelligence dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, that Saddam could launch WMD within 45 minutes.
"I am the one responsible for providing this information," said the colonel, who is now working as an adviser to Iraq's Governing Council.
He also insisted that the information contained in the dossier relating to Saddam's battlefield WMD capability was correct. "It is 100 per cent accurate," he said after reading the relevant passage.
The devices, which were known by Iraqi officers as "the secret weapon", were made in Iraq and designed to be launched by hand-held rocket-propelled grenades. They could also have been launched sooner than the 45-minutes claimed in the dossier.
"Forget 45 minutes," said Col al-Dabbagh "we could have fired these within half-an-hour."
Local commanders were told that they could use the weapons only on the personal orders of Saddam. "We were told that when the war came we would only have a short time to use everything we had to defend ourselves, including the secret weapon," he said.
The only reason that these weapons were not used, said Col al-Dabbagh, was because the bulk of the Iraqi army did not want to fight for Saddam. "The West should thank God that the Iraqi army decided not to fight," he said.
"If the army had fought for Saddam Hussein and used these weapons there would have been terrible consequences."
Col al-Dabbagh, who was recalled to Baghdad to work at Iraq's air defence headquarters during the war itself, believes that the WMD have been hidden at secret locations by the Fedayeen and are still in Iraq. "Only when Saddam is caught will people talk about these weapons," he said.
During the Hutton inquiry into the death of Dr David Kelly, Sir Richard Dearlove, the head of MI6, said that the information contained in the intelligence dossier relating to the 45-minute claim had come from a single "established and reliable" source serving in the Iraqi armed forces. Privately British intelligence officers have claimed that they believe the original source was killed during the war.
Dr Kelly killed himself last July after it was revealed that he was the source of a BBC radio report claiming that the Labour Government had included the 45-minute claim against the wishes of MI6 to "sex up" the intelligence dossier.
Col al-Dabbagh, who spied for the Iraqi National Accord (INA), a London-based exile group, for several years before the war, said, however, that he provided several reports to British intelligence on Saddam's plans to deploy WMD from early 2002 onwards.
The INA, which was made up of retired and serving Iraqi officers and Ba'ath party officials, is known to have enjoyed a close relationship with MI6 and America's Central Intelligence Agency.
Dr Ayad Allawi, the head of the INA who is now a prominent member of the Governing Council in Baghdad, confirmed that he had passed Col al-Dabbagh's reports on Saddam's WMD to both British and American intelligence officers "sometime in the spring and summer of 2002".
Apart from providing intelligence on Saddam's WMD programme, Col al-Dabbagh also provided details of Iraq's troop and air defence deployments before the war.
Although he gave details of Iraq's battlefield WMD capability, he said that he had no knowledge of any plans by Saddam to use missiles to attack British bases in Cyprus and other Nato targets.
In the build-up to the conflict, Tony Blair was criticised by intelligence officials for giving the impression that Saddam had developed ballistic missiles that could carry WMD warheads and hit targets such as Israel and Britain's military bases in Cyprus.
But Col al-Dabbagh said that he doubted that Iraq under Saddam had this capability. "I know nothing about this. My information was only about what we could do on the battlefield."
Col al-Dabbagh, who received two death threats from Saddam loyalists days after his interview with the Telegraph, said that he was willing to travel to London to give evidence to the Hutton inquiry. "I was there and I knew what Saddam was doing before the war," he said.
An official close to the Hutton inquiry said: "What Mr Dabbagh has to say sounds very interesting and it is certainly new evidence that we will want to look at."
Posts: 187 | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
RioLion
unregistered
|
posted
(your comment) 'Why don't we nuke North Korea and China? Don't you think those people are threats to either their neighbors or us? Why don't you shoot your neighbor who might be a threat to you?' ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
A comment like that really makes me wonder what kind of mentality of people you are listening to. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
To some extend they (China, North Korea, etc.) have been or still are threats to us. This is one reason why we continue to gather intelligence information on them.
We simply do not need to nuke anyone while there is means of negotiation to resolve the conflicts or difference in policy.
A nuclear war would have a bad effect on our environment, etc. and that we have avoided that option for the past 50 years or so. With the Soviet Union, we have the policy of mutual
destruction - I forget what the term used was.
Perhaps the same policy will have to be employed with North Korea as long as they did not start exporting their nuclear technology to terrorist groups intend upon destroying us.
China - now our largest trading partner in the area - has really become our friend. The policy of the US has been negotiations or if that failed, containment as we did with the Soviet Union. Progress is being made in regard to North Korea. War is only an option when all other alternatives become non-feasible and the threat becomes too impractical to ignore. ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
Why don't I shoot my neighbor who may be a threat to me? Simply because I believe that in living in a civilized nation we have the courts and police to settle disagreements or threats to my person. And why not try to make friends with my neighbors? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Iraq under the oppressive reign of Saddam Hussein – an avowed enemy of the US, would have become a haven for terrorists of all nations intend upon destroying the basic freedoms we enjoy - much similar to what we found with the Taliban in Afghanistan.
IP: Logged |
|
|
RioLion
unregistered
|
posted
“why don't you show some integrity and admit that Bush lied America into war?”
I really do not believe you have anything to support your contention that Bush lied and led us into war with Iraq. His decisions were made based upon what intelligence he had available. While it may or may not be true that Saddam had WMD, his track record indicates that he did at one time and based upon his heinous character, many of us would believe that Saddam would have eventually produced WMD if given the opportunity.
Anybody that would gas his own people and bury thousands in mass graves – many only on suspicion of disloyalty and without recourse to proper judicial process, certainly does not deserve to be the head of state of any country. In fact, if ever found he should receive the same fate as Slobodan Milosevic and his horde of murderers.
“the mass graves were not the reason we attacked Iraq”. I would say that statement of yours may somewhat be true, however, my comment was in reference to your highly asinine statement that Bush is another Hitler. There is just too much a drastic difference to valid any comparison.
Perhaps your comments are simply a ploy to be decisive or more likely a display of childish attitude to gain attention.
IP: Logged |
|
|
RioLion
unregistered
|
posted
PhilipIHS - so you feel that Saddam was NOT a threat either to the US or his neighbors?
Did he not have visions of grandeur in becoming the head of a new Babylonian empire? Where did you hear that we encouraged him to invade Kuwait?
Or is it that you simply discount anything that comes out of our government believing them to be liars intend upon their own selfish goals?
IP: Logged |
|
|
RioLion
unregistered
|
posted
There was a white paper a few weeks ago on the mass grave sites that were being excavated in Iraq. Forensic experts were identifying many of the thousands in these graves via DNA matching. It is estimated that Saddam murdered over 200,000 of his opponents. To say that Bush did not have good justification for going to war because they had bad info on the acquisitions of nuclear material is liken to rejecting a book because of a very simple and trivial mistake in grammar on the last page.
Sorry PhilipIHS, you need a sick mind to equate Bush with Adolph Hitler. The comparison simply is not there. Those that make such a comparison simply are unfamiliar with Hitler and history in general.
Saddam, I am sure would have been a threat to this country and the rest of the world sooner or later if he had not been removed. His track record certainly indicates that. He had a nuclear program in place before the first Gulf War and would eventually restored that program when the opportunity presented itself. There was plenty of justification for going to work against such a monster.
Saddam simply is or was an evil person. I rather doubt that anyone but the blind would disagree with that.
As to judgment, forgive me if I hit the middle of the bullseye on that one.
IP: Logged |
|
|
rapturewatcher
Advanced Member
Member # 94
|
posted
The church and Israel have distinct destinies that lie ahead. Israel is to be brought back into their own land from every place where God had scattered them. The church never had a land of its own, was never removed from it, and cant be brought back into it. Her destiny is in heaven.
Israel and the church play signifigant roles in the last days and specific prophecies pertain to each.
Failure to distinguish between the two results in a serious distortion of biblical prophecy, especially that which pertains to the rapture and the second coming.
Gods promises to Israel require that they are a specific ethnic group of people who lived in a particular location on the earth, were scattered from it, and returned in the last days.
The church didnt exist in the old testament when the promises were made and are not an ethnically identifiable people but are from "every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (rev 5:9)
To understan the rapture and the second coming, we must distinguish Israel from the church.
Otherwise we will confuse the distinct roles which each is to play. If we confuse church for Israel we will be hopelessly confused on prophecy and unable to discern the times we live in.
Why does Jesus come back to the land of Israel?
He comes to rescue Israel at armageddon at the second coming. The church doesnt inhabit the land, and was already rescued by a pre trib rapture (john 14:3; rev 3:10; 1 thes 1:10)
Jesus also comes back to Israel to set up his earthly kingdom in Israel (matt 19:28; acts 15:16; romans 11; etc...)
Sorry that you Philip can't tell the difference!
Indeed, God is fulfilling his promise made to the Jewish people...
Isaiah 11:11
It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord shall set His hand again the second time
To recover the remnant of His people who are left...
Jeremiah 23:7-8
7 "Therefore, behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, "that they shall no longer say, "As the LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,'
8 but, "As the LORD lives who brought up and led the descendants of the house of Israel from the north country and from all the countries where I had driven them.' And they shall dwell in their own land."
If God does not fulfill these promises, then what hope do we have? Soon and very soon, we are going to see the King...
Posts: 187 | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
J4Jesus
unregistered
|
posted
But GOD will Protect them. He's THEIR GOD!!!!!
IP: Logged |
|
|
rapturewatcher
Advanced Member
Member # 94
|
posted
How about I have a turn....
Philip, please read this!!
'Learning from the pros' exposes Dems hyprocrisy
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=34894
Posted: October 2, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
If you listen to the mainstream press, you will learn the Bush administration justified the war against Saddam Hussein using "questionable intelligence."
It is being alleged, mainly by the Democrats, that the White House deliberately deceived the nation. They allege there was no case for war.
Sen. Hillary Clinton and former-President Bill Clinton are among the chief critics of the administration's handling of Iraq. Together with former-Secretary of State Madeline Albright, Sen. Carl Levin, Al Gore, and other prominent Democrats, they have launched a vicious campaign to discredit the administration of George W. Bush.
They now charge that, in reality, there never were any weapons of mass destruction. They say both the CIA and the president lied. They charge it was all concocted to make Dick Cheney and his friends at Halliburton rich.
They surely sound different than they did when they were facing the same Saddam Hussein that George Bush just deposed.
Just listen to what Bill Clinton said on Feb. 17, 1998, just before he ordered Operation Desert Fox against Saddam's Iraq: "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." He made this statement on a national broadcast.
At the time, Clinton's attack on Saddam's Iraq was being criticized as a "wag the dog" effort to deflect attention away from his scandals and upcoming impeachment.
Madeline Albright defended her boss, saying, "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
On Nov. 19, 1999, Albright told the world, "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
These are the warnings they gave America when they had the same intelligence access that the current administration has. The only thing that has changed is now they don't have access to the top-secret information the president has.
Clinton's national security adviser, Sandy Berger, justified the 1998 air war against Iraq by charging, "He [Saddam Hussein] will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has 10 times since 1983."
THESE ARE THE SAME WEAPONS THE DEMOCRATS NOW DENY EVER EXISTED.
Democratic Congressional Minority Leader, Nancy Pelosi, has opposed the current war on Iraq from the beginning. But in 1998, she said, "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons-inspection process."
So what happened between 1998 and now? Did Saddam have a change of heart that everybody except the White House knew about? Was new intelligence uncovered that suggested that Saddam had abandoned his weapons programs?
Not according to the hugely partisan Senate Intelligence Committee. Democrat Sen. Carl Levin sits on that committee. In a letter to President Clinton signed by John Kerrey and Carl Levin, these two stalwarts pleaded, "[We] urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
And this was from Carl Levin and John Kerry – today's most persistent and vocal critics of President Bush and his policy that was based on Saddam's possession of weapons of mass destruction.
Their hypocrisy is almost beyond belief. They must think no one remembers their words of wisdom.
It is true that the Bush administration hasn't found Saddam's weapons of mass destruction. But if they deceived us about Iraq possessing them, they learned from the pros – the Clinton administration.
Posts: 187 | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
RioLion
unregistered
|
posted
The only way prophecy can be fulfilled, particularly what we read in the book of Revelation, is for Israel to be restored as a nation first. Conversion will be something that will occur later when the Jews realize that the Messiah God sent them was the one that they killed upon the cross.
"And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;..." Rev. 7:4 ff the function of these 144,000 will be to witness throughout the world that Jesus was the crucified Messiah promised in ancient times.
This is also an event that will occur after the rapture. How then can one believe that the state of Israel will not be restored? There are other verses of prophecy that can only be fulfilled if and only if the state of Israel is restored.
To equate President Bush with Adolph Hitler really takes a sick type of mind typical of those that indulge in the stupidity of conspiracy theories such as that of the Illuminti, etc.
IP: Logged |
|
|
rapturewatcher
Advanced Member
Member # 94
|
posted
Harsh? Sounds more like HATE to me...do you hate the Jews?
Luk 21:24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Deu 28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, [even] wood and stone.
Isa 5:5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; [and] break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:
Isa 63:18 The people of thy holiness have possessed [it] but a little while: our adversaries have trodden down thy sanctuary.
Lam 1:15 The Lord hath trodden under foot all my mighty [men] in the midst of me: he hath called an assembly against me to crush my young men: the Lord hath trodden the virgin, the daughter of Judah, [as] in a winepress.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty [and] two months.
Isa 66:12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye **** , ye shall be borne upon [her] sides, and be dandled upon [her] knees.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.
Mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Posts: 187 | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
Do not look for help for Israel from President George Bush, he is the same kind of Christian Hitler was.
Oh, you did no know Hitler was a Christian, he thought he was doing Yahweh a favor killing the Christ killers.
Check out the "Thule Society" Hitler was a member of compared to the "Skull and Bones" that President Bush is a member of.
Before you attack me and call me crazy please read
the following article....
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1314.cfm
Title: DID PRESIDENT BUSH SELL ISRAEL OUT? MESSIANIC JEWISH JOURNALIST MAKES THIS CHARGE
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1828.cfm
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
rapturewatcher
Advanced Member
Member # 94
|
posted
Its a shame that Born Again Christians don't understand the difference between the Church and Israel!!
Hey Philip this is right out of the NEW TESTAMENT!
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord....
And they...shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luke 19:41; 13:34-35; 21:24
Posts: 187 | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
rapturewatcher
Advanced Member
Member # 94
|
posted
Did you forget 9-11? Bush is doing what needs to be done.
Palestinians want to kill Jews! They need to go back to Jordan or Egypt whereever it is they came from, I know its not from Israel.
God gave the Holy Land to the Jewish people and they will have it, and will have it all.
Read the Bible its all in there!! No really it is! ![[youpi]](graemlins/youpi.gif)
Posts: 187 | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
not-yet-banned
Advanced Member
Member # 2423
|
posted
quote:
The Road Map plan for peace threatens the integrity and safety of Israel, rewards terrorists by releasing them from prison so that they can once again prey on innocent Jews, and divides Jerusalem. President Bush says 2005 is still the target date to establish a Palestinian state. We cannot sit idle on this issue.[/QB]
LOL!! Terrorists are rewarded the world over. What are the judges who sit on the benches of courts of law to be classified as, if not as terrorists? Is not Bush, who has killed 5000 largely innocent Iraqis to date, one of the world greatest modern terrorists? One terrorist fights another. But whom you call a terrorist depends on your political view point.
The fact is, that the Palestinians need a state. Everyone needs a state. In fact to deprive someone of statehood is probably a denial of basic human rights. The Palestinians should have a state. Only with the creation of a state can there be any cessation of international terrorism.
Posts: 57 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Miguel
Advanced Member
Member # 47
|
posted
May the Lord work with the Israelite and the Palestine people acording to His will for mans will is not perfect, there is no respecter of person in the kingdom of God.
--------------------
Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
|
posted
Just to clarify this, the above statement was taken from an email that I recieved on the topic. Those are not my own words.
Secondly, God is not a breaker of Covenants and He still has a covenant with the Jews and will continue to honor that covenant until such time as the times of the Gentiles are complete and the Jews are finally brought to SEE their Messiah (Yeshua/Jesus) and believe in him.
The Bible clearly tells us to Bless Israel.
Of Course I believe in feeding and clothing the poor..etc. but that's not what this post is about.
--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
|
posted
Palestinians have said Israel is the obstacle to Middle Eastern peace. They do not believe in Israel's right to exist, nor do they believe that the Holocaust ever happened. The Palestinian Authority has demanded the release of thousands of known terrorists. We must urge the White House to: DEFEND ISRAEL at all costs.
Please rally with us as a Defender of Israel by signing our letter to President George Bush and the US State Department Today!
For centuries, Jews from around the world have been victimized by a spirit of anti-Semitism. We cannot allow history to repeat itself. Israel will once again be seized by hostile nations, unless you show how much you care about God's Holy City.
The Bible has clearly taught us in Psalm 102, "You will arise and have compassion on Israel, for it is time to show favor to her; the appointed time has come. For her stones are dear to your servants; her dust moves them to pity."
Please stand with us as a Defender of Israel by signing our letter to President George Bush and the US State Department today.
The Road Map plan for peace threatens the integrity and safety of Israel, rewards terrorists by releasing them from prison so that they can once again prey on innocent Jews, and divides Jerusalem. President Bush says 2005 is still the target date to establish a Palestinian state. We cannot sit idle on this issue.
Sign the Petition at the below link:
http://www.salememail.com/SpecialOffers/JerusalemPrayerTeam/
Thank you for defending Israel!
--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
