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Topic: All Things New
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Carol Swenson
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Scripture evidently specifies three heavens, since “the third heaven” is revealed to exist (2 Cor. 12:2), and it is logical that a third heaven cannot exist without a first and second. Scripture does not describe specifically the first and second heaven. The first, however, apparently refers to the atmospheric heavens of the birds (Hosea 2:18, “sky”) and of clouds (Daniel 7:13). The second heaven may be the stellar spaces (cf. Genesis 1:14-18). The third heaven is the abode of the Triune God.
Concerning Hebrews:
Not only was blood used at the beginning of the ministry of the Old Covenant, but it was used in the regular administration of the tabernacle service. Under the Old Covenant, people and objects were purified by blood, water, or fire (Num. 31:21-24). This was, of course, ceremonial purification; it meant that the persons and objects were now acceptable to God. The purification did not alter the nature of the person or object. God's principle is that blood must be shed before sin can be forgiven (Lev. 17:11).
Since God has ordained that remission of sins is through the shedding of blood, and since purification comes through the sprinkling of blood, it is necessary that blood be shed and applied if the New Covenant is to be in force. The "patterns" (the Old Covenant tabernacle) were purified by the sprinkling of the blood. But the "originals" were also purified! The blood of Jesus Christ not only purifies the conscience of the believer (Heb. 9:14), but also purified the "heavenly things" (Heb. 9:23, NASB).
How could the heavenly sanctuary ever become defiled? We can understand how the earthly sanctuary could be defiled since it was used by sinful men. Each year, on the great Day of Atonement, the tabernacle was purified through the sprinkling of blood (Lev. 16:12-19). But how could a heavenly sanctuary ever become defiled? Certainly nothing in heaven is defiled in a literal sense, for sin cannot pollute the sanctuary of God. But, for that matter, nothing in the earthly tabernacle was literally defiled by sin. It all had to do with people's relationships to God. The blood sprinkled on a piece of furniture did not change the nature of that piece, but it changed God's relationship to it. God could enter into communion with people because of the sprinkled blood.
Through Jesus Christ, we who are sinners can enter into the holy of holies in the heavenly sanctuary (Heb. 10:19-22). Physically, of course, we are on earth; but spiritually, we are communing with God in the heavenly holy of holies. In order for God to receive us into this heavenly fellowship, the blood of Jesus Christ had to be applied. We enter into God's presence "by the blood of Jesus" (Heb. 10:19).
Bible Exposition Commentary - Be Confident (Hebrews)
Concerning Colossians:
Victorious in Him (v. 15). Jesus not only dealt with sin and the Law on the cross, but He also dealt with Satan. Speaking about His crucifixion, Jesus said, "Now is the judgment of this world; now shall the prince of this world be cast out" (John 12:31). The death of Christ on the cross looked like a great victory for Satan, but it turned out to be a great defeat from which Satan cannot recover.
Jesus had three great victories on the cross. First, He "disarmed the powers and authorities" (Col. 2:15, NIV), stripping Satan and his army of whatever weapons they held. Satan cannot harm the believer who will not harm himself. It is when we cease to watch and pray (as did Peter) that Satan can use his weapons against us.
Second, Jesus "made a public spectacle" (Col. 2:15, NIV) of the enemy, exposing Satan's deceit and vileness. In His death, resurrection, and ascension, Christ vindicated God and vanquished the devil.
His third victory is found in the word triumph. Whenever a Roman general won a great victory on foreign soil, took many captives and much loot, and gained new territory for Rome, he was honored by an official parade known as "the Roman triumph." Paul alluded to this practice in his Second Letter to the Corinthians (see 2 Cor. 2:14). Jesus Christ won a complete victory, and He returned to glory in a great triumphal procession (Eph. 4:8ff). In this, He disgraced and defeated Satan.
You and I share in His victory over the devil. We need not worry about the elemental forces that try to influence men's lives. The satanic armies of principalities and powers are defeated and disgraced! As we claim the victory of Christ, use the equipment He has provided for us (Eph. 6:10ff), and trust Him, we are free from the influence of the devil.
Bible Exposition Commentary - Be Complete (Colossians)
Spiritual truths are often explained to us in terms of the material world to make them easier to understand, but spiritual truths are not actually the same as the material world. For example, the helmet of salvation is not actually a physical helmet; the belt of truth is not actually a physical belt; etc. Jesus did not actually parade the devil through Heaven and cast him out.
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scythewieldor
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The third heaven [Spiritual Heaven] is the abode of the Triune God.
In your opinion, which heaven did the "heavenly things" (i.e., the ones to which reference was made in Hebrews 9:23) exist?
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Heb 9:23-24[It is] necessary, therefore, the pattern indeed of the things in the heavens to be purified with these, and the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these; for not into holy places made with hands did the Christ enter — figures of the true — but into the heaven itself, now to be manifested in the presence of God for us;
Heb 9:23-10:20 tells us many things:
- The Aaronic priesthood ministered over things that were set up according to the pattern of heavenly things.
- The things of the pattern (in contrast to the real heavenly things) were cleansed with the blood of animals.
- The real heavenly things needed to be cleansed, too. Those things required a better sacrifice than the things of the pattern.
- Jesus entered the heaven itself "now to be manifested in the presence of God for us - (YLT)" to cleanse the things, there, with His own blood.
- The blood of Jesus cleansed heaven of the remembrance of sins - something the blood of animals could not do.
- Once Jesus offered His sacrifice, He sat down on the right hand of God.
Thanks to Jesus Christ, the only begotten (not adopted) Son of God and High Priest forever according to the Order of Melchizedek, God doesn't remember our sins. The strength of sin is the law (1 Co. 15:56). Jesus blotted out the Law, so God doesn't remember sin. Therefore, there is no sting in death (1 Co 5:16).
In other words, Jesus destroyed him who had the power of death.
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Heb 2:14 Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil --
Paul says that that has been accomplished.
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Col 2:13-17 And you — being dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh — He made alive together with him, having forgiven you all the trespasses, having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross; having stripped the principalities and the authorities, he made a shew of them openly — having triumphed over them in it. Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ;
Jesus triumphed over principalities and authorities, stripped them of their weapons, and paraded them openly as His prisoners. Where do you think that parade happened?
I think it might have happened in heaven where devil accused the brethren before our God night and day (see Re 12:10). (It was those twice daily accusation sessions before God that required the morning and evening sacrifices in the tabernacle.)
Once Jesus went into heaven with His innocent blood, devil was proven a murderer of the guiltless. Such filthiness could not be allowed to stay in Heaven. Thus, Jesus - overthrew devil & his angels,
- spoiled them (taking away the accusations made powerful by the Old Covenant law),
- took them to the gate of heaven, and,
- threw them down.
Here on earth, devil still makes sure that sin brings forth death (Jam 1:15). However, we who have faith in Christ do not live in the fear of death as other men do (Heb 2:15; 1 Th 4:13; Eph 2:12).
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Carol Swenson
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Heaven is where God is, and it did not need to be "renewed", unless you are suggesting that God needed to be renewed. No one ever accused the saints who are in Heaven because they have already been judged by God.
The third heaven [Spiritual Heaven] is the abode of the Triune God. Its location is unrevealed. It is the divine plan at present to populate the third heaven. It is a place (John 14:1-3). It is called “glory” (Hebrews 2:10); those who enter it will be perfected forever (Hebrews 10:14) and made partakers of Christ’s fullness (John 1:16), which is all fullness (Col. 1:19) and which comprehends the very nature of the Godhead bodily (Col. 2:9). The apostle John was called into heaven (Rev. 4:1). The apostle Paul was caught up to the third heaven (2 Cor. 12:1-9). He was prohibited, however, from revealing what he saw and heard. Heaven is a place of beauty (Rev. 21:1-22:7), of life (1 Tim. 4:8), service (Rev. 22:3), worship (Rev. 19:1-3), and glory (2 Cor. 4:17-18). (The New Unger's Bible Dictionary)
The New Heavens and Earth that will be renewed refer to the physical heavens, the universe.
Satan does continue to tempt, deceive, and accuse living people, both saints and unbelievers. And you are right, we need to wear the full armor of God and follow Christ, no matter what the cost. But nothing can ever separate us from the love of God (Romans 8:38,39). We tear down demonic strongholds with the sword of the spirit, the Word of God. And yet it is not us, but the Holy Spirit working within and through us, Who does these things.
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WildB
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Originally posted by scythewieldor:
The new heaven and the new earth...hmm.
So, I guess I believe heaven has been renewed. All things have, already, been made subject to Jesus Christ even though we, on earth, don't see that so clearly. No one is accusing our brethren in heaven.
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Col 2:13-15 And you — being dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh — He made alive together with him, having forgiven you all the trespasses, having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross; having stripped the principalities and the authorities, he made a shew of them openly — having triumphed over them in it.
In other words, the devil can not even utter, in heaven, any of the accusations that used to work to keep the brethren separated from God. Those weapons have been taken away from him. Rather, Christ is interceding for us, there.
On earth, however, the accuser of our brethren is hard at work. And men, hoping to gain power to manipulate the brethren to their own convenience by the threat of exclusion, set up little empires that run by the same demonic wisdom that the devil, once, used in heaven.
Those are demonic strongholds. Those are the mind-killing machines that keep men in bondage using philosophies and such.
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Col 2:8-10 See that no one shall be carrying you away as spoil through the philosophy and vain deceit, according to the deliverance of men, according to the rudiments of the world, and not according to Christ, because in him doth tabernacle all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and ye are in him made full, who is the head of all principality and authority,
Yes: we must be submitted to God before we can resist the devil effectively.
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Jam 4:7 be subject, then, to God; stand up against the devil, and he will flee from you;
That means we need to be doers of the word we read in the New Covenant.
YIKES! This is why some are put out in left field.
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That is all.....
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scythewieldor
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The new heaven and the new earth...hmm.
So, I guess I believe heaven has been renewed. All things have, already, been made subject to Jesus Christ even though we, on earth, don't see that so clearly. No one is accusing our brethren in heaven.
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Col 2:13-15 And you — being dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh — He made alive together with him, having forgiven you all the trespasses, having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross; having stripped the principalities and the authorities, he made a shew of them openly — having triumphed over them in it.
In other words, the devil can not even utter, in heaven, any of the accusations that used to work to keep the brethren separated from God. Those weapons have been taken away from him. Rather, Christ is interceding for us, there.
On earth, however, the accuser of our brethren is hard at work. And men, hoping to gain power to manipulate the brethren to their own convenience by the threat of exclusion, set up little empires that run by the same demonic wisdom that the devil, once, used in heaven.
Those are demonic strongholds. Those are the mind-killing machines that keep men in bondage using philosophies and such.
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Col 2:8-10 See that no one shall be carrying you away as spoil through the philosophy and vain deceit, according to the deliverance of men, according to the rudiments of the world, and not according to Christ, because in him doth tabernacle all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and ye are in him made full, who is the head of all principality and authority,
Yes: we must be submitted to God before we can resist the devil effectively.
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Jam 4:7 be subject, then, to God; stand up against the devil, and he will flee from you;
That means we need to be doers of the word we read in the New Covenant.
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Carol Swenson
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Spiritual restoration began with the first coming of Christ and His defeat of Satan. It will be completed when Satan, all the wicked, hades and death are cast into the lake of fire.
Physical restoration of both Earth and the heavens, the cosmos, will not occur until He returns. For now, the magnetic field of the Earth is still decaying, stars are still decaying, the universe is still expanding which, if left unchecked, would result in the death of the universe. We're aware of the damages to the Earth, such as pollution and endangered species, but there is a great deal going on that we are not normally aware of in the very big universe that God created.
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scythewieldor
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Acts 3:20-21 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
Oh, the earth is still unclean. I believe, though, that the heavens have been purified, Satan has been cast down, and the earth needs to be restored.
The question is "What is the restoration process?".
I believe that the Spiritual Warfare to which we have been called is that process. When we become obedient to the commandments of the Lord's apostles recorded in the New Covenant, our weapons, which are made mighty through God, may be brought to bear upon the destroyers of creation.
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2 Co 10:3-6 for walking in the flesh, not according to the flesh do we war, for the weapons of our warfare [are] not fleshly, but powerful to God for bringing down of strongholds, reasonings bringing down, and every high thing lifted up against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of the Christ, and being in readiness to avenge every disobedience, whenever your obedience may be fulfilled.
The biggest problem is that Christians refuse to glorify God by submitting to the authorities He has put in place - namely, Jesus and the apostles.
We keep justifying fleshly means rather than justifying God by doing His words.
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scythewieldor
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The old creation must make way for the new creation if God is to be glorified. Jesus called this event "the regeneration" of the earth (Matt. 19:28),
Let's look at Mat 19:28.
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And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
I think that this does not refer to the regeneration of the earth as much as it does the regeneration of the nation of Israel under the New Covenant.
Israel, first generated as a nation by the Old Covenant, was degenerated when the Lord divorced her and scattered her children into all the nations. Even though 2 of the tribes of Israel (Benjamin & Levi) were kept as close as Judea, the rest were scattered everywhere.
When the chief priests of Israel broke their covenant with the Lord at the trial of Jesus (when they said, "We have no king but Caesar"), even the part of Israel that was in Judah ceased to be a nation before the Lord. (That's why the lights went out.)
Judah and Israel no longer having a valid priesthood, no sinner among the Jews had any way to atone for their sins with animal sacrifices. Since Jesus did not need any atonement for sin, He became the very last "Seed of Abraham". (Paul refers to this condition in Galatians.)
The kingdom that the chief priests gave to Pilate at the trial of Jesus, Pilate turned around and gave to Christ on the cross when he had put on the cross the crime for which Jesus was being executed - "King of the Jews". After that, Jesus drank the fruit of the vine on the cross (ratifying the New Covenant to which His disciples had committed themselves the night before), and, showed that the Kingdom of God had come anew.
Then, He said, "It is finished", and, gave up the wind/spirit. Immediately, the disciples became the covenant heirs of Jesus. Later, they sent out the decrees to be observed by believers everywhere.
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Ac 16:4-5 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem. And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.
The word interpreted 'decrees' is the same word used of the edict Caesar made that brought Joseph and Mary back to Bethlehem. It is, also, the word interpreted 'ordinance' when Paul speaks of the commandments of the Old Covenant.
In other words, decrees are made by none other than the highest authorities.
Not only that: when the apostles and elders sent their decision concerning gentile Christians back to Antioch, it contained a sentence/verdict.
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Ac 15:9 wherefore I judge: not to trouble those who from the nations do turn back to God,
The Commonwealth of Israel was regenerated. It had decrees. It had judgements. And the commandments of the apostles of the Lord have not changed one iota since they handed them down.
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2 Pe 3:1-4 This, now, beloved, a second letter to you I write, in both which I stir up your pure mind in reminding [you], to be mindful of the sayings said before by the holy prophets, and of the command of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour, this first knowing, that there shall come in the latter end of the days scoffers, according to their own desires going on, and saying, ‘Where is the promise of his presence? for since the fathers did fall asleep, all things so remain from the beginning of the creation;’
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Carol Swenson
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Acts 3:20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
I believe the restoration is still future, the New Heaven and New Earth. Some people think Heaven and Earth will be replaced; others, including me, believe they will be restored.
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scythewieldor
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Creation is in bondage and travail (Rom. 8:18-23), and even the heavens "are not clean in His sight" (Job 15:15).
It may be that that has changed.
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He 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
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Carol Swenson
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The word signified (Rev. 1:1) is important; it means "to show by a sign." In Revelation, the noun is translated as sign (Rev. 15:1), wonder (Rev. 12:1, 3), and miracle (Rev. 19:20). This is the same word used in the Gospel of John for the miracles of Jesus Christ, for His miracles were events that carried a deeper spiritual message than simply the display of power. As you study Revelation, expect to encounter a great deal of symbolism, much of it related to the Old Testament.
Why did John use symbolism? For one thing, this kind of "spiritual code" is understood only by those who know Christ personally. If any Roman officers had tried to use Revelation as evidence against Christians, the book would have been a puzzle and an enigma to them. But an even greater reason is that symbolism is not weakened by time. John was able to draw on the great "images" in God's revelation and assemble them into an exciting drama that has encouraged persecuted and suffering saints for centuries. However, you must not conclude that John's use of symbolism indicates that the events described are not real. They are real!
There is a third reason why John used symbolism: symbols not only convey information, but also impart values and arouse emotions. John could have written, "A dictator will rule the world," but instead he described a beast. The symbol says much more than the mere title of "dictator." Instead of explaining a world system, John simply introduced "Babylon the Great" and contrasted the "harlot" with the "bride." The very name "Babylon" would convey deep spiritual truth to readers who knew the Old Testament.
In understanding John's symbolism, however, we must be careful not to allow our imaginations to run wild. Biblical symbols are consistent with the whole of biblical revelation. Some symbols are explained (Rev. 1:20; 4:5; 5:8); others are understood from Old Testament symbolism (Rev. 2:7, 17; 4:7); and some symbols are not explained at all (the "white stone" in Rev. 2:17). Nearly 300 references to the Old Testament are found in Revelation! This means that we must anchor our interpretations to what God has already revealed, lest we misinterpret this important prophetic book.
Bible Exposition Commentary - Be Victorious (Revelation)
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scythewieldor
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When I talk about the Revelation of Jesus Christ, I keep in mind that the bulk of it is symbolic.
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Rev 1:1 A revelation of Jesus Christ, that God gave to him, to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass quickly; and he did signify [it], having sent through his messenger to his servant John,
Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ Θεός, δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ, τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάνῃ,
The statement that Jesus 'signified' to John the revelation that had been given to Him is made clear in the Greek word ἐσήμανεν. Jesus made signs. In other words, He used sign language.
There is a place in the Revelation where we know, for sure, sign language was not used.
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Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns....9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth....15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the ***** sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
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Carol Swenson
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Scripture uses a lot of metaphors to illustrate its teaching.
Metaphors for the Tree of Life
Proverbs 3:18
She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her, And happy are all who hold her fast.
Proverbs 11:30
The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, And he who is wise wins souls.
Proverbs 13:12
Hope deferred makes the heart sick, But desire fulfilled is a tree of life.
Proverbs 15:4
A soothing tongue is a tree of life, But perversion in it crushes the spirit.
Metaphors for Jesus in the gospel according to John
6:35 "I AM the bread of life"
8:12 "I AM the light of the world"
10:7 "I AM the gate for the sheep"
10:11 "I AM the good shepherd"
11:25 "I AM the resurrection and the life"
14:6 "I AM the way and the truth and the life"
15:1 "I AM the true vine"
Examples of metaphors for God
Father Dt 32:6; Isa 64:8; Mal 2:10; Eph 4:6
Rock Dt 32:4 See also 1Sa 2:2; 2Sa 22:2; Ps 62:2; Ps 78:35
Shepherd Ps 23:1 See also Ps 28:9; Ps 80:1; Eze 34:11-16
Examples of metaphors for the Holy Spirit
Counselor Jn 14:16,26; Jn 15:26; Jn 16:7
Breath Ge 2:7; Job 32:8; Job 33:4; Job 34:14
Wind Jn 3:8
Examples of metaphors for the church
Bride Rev 19:7; Rev 21:2-9; Rev 22:17
Household of God Eph 2:19; 1Ti 3:15
Body of Christ Ro 12:4; 1Co 12:12-27; Eph 1:22-23; Col 1:24
We cannot doubt that the Tree of Life is a real tree because the Bible includes metaphors. We would have to also doubt that God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and believers are real because of the metaphors in scripture.
Scripture says the Tree was in the midst of the garden. God was in the midst of the garden, but He is also everywhere else.
Revelation 2:7
'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'
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scythewieldor
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I guess no one is going to answer my question. I was just thinking, Adam and Eve were allowed to eat from every tree except the evil one. So they could have eaten from the tree of life, instead, and become immortal.
In Proverbs, we learn that a wholesome tongue is a tree of life.
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Pr 15:4 A healed tongue [is] a tree of life, And perverseness in it — a breach in the spirit.
Jesus said that we live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.
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Mat 4:4 But he answering said, ‘It hath been written, Not upon bread alone doth man live, but upon every word coming forth from the mouth of God.’
God's tongue is the most wholesome there is. When we remind men of His words, we become healers. When we pervert (add meanings to, replace the meanings of, or, take meanings away from) His word, we make a breach in the spirit.
There may have been a literal Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden. However, there was there, also, the wholesome tongue of the Lord God who visited with Adam every day.
Nothing could have been more life-giving than God's contribution to the dialog Adam had with Him.
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scythewieldor
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The measurements are staggering! If we take a cubit as eighteen inches, then the city walls are 216 feet high! If a furlong is taken as 600 feet (measures differed in ancient days), the city would be about 1,500 miles square! There will be plenty of room for everyone!
I went and checked to make sure my memory served me correctly. It does.
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Re 21:16 and the city lieth square, and the length of it is as great as the breadth; and he did measure the city with the reed — furlongs twelve thousand; the length, and the breadth, and the height, of it are equal;
The length, the breadth, and the height are equal. The dimension of the wall is not the same as the height? Or, does that mean the wall is 144 cubits thick?
If you built a wall that was as high as this one is long and broad (1500 miles, you said), the base of it would have to be very thick. The base of this city could reach from Gibraltar to Turkey, or, from Libya to Germany.
If the height is the same as the length and breadth, this city reaches above the atmosphere of earth. (The Kármán line, at an altitude of 100 km (62 mi) above sea level, is conventionally used as the start of outer space in space treaties and for aerospace records keeping.) The thickness would absorb an incredible amount of solar energy. It seems the convection currents inside would be incredible - sucking wind through the gates at enormous velocities. Considering the footprint of this city, the winds would be coming off the oceans loaded with humidity.
That might be the reason the oceans cease to exist; they're sucked dry.
The convection currents inside the city would not cease rising (especially, if the city is a pyramid) until they converged, and, exited the top, as a might wind, into outer space. In the case of a pyramid-shaped city, the ejection of water-saturated air would extend, maybe, hundreds of miles into outer space.
Imagine a world all of the atmosphere of which was drawn to the gates of that city. Imagine that city twirling around in space (because the planet upon which it sits is rotating). Imagine the water-laden air ejected from the top of it cooling down, and, laying out ribbons of ice in outer space- making an ice canopy of sorts around the earth.
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Betty Louise
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Please say a prayer for me. I got shingles for the second time.
Betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Carol Swenson
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Hi Betty,
That's okay. Just something to think about.
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Betty Louise
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I Don't know, Carol.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Carol Swenson
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No, I don't think they ever ate from the tree of life, but they had the right to before the fall.
Genesis 2:9 (NASB)
9 Out of the ground the LORD God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:16-17 (NASB)
16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
Genesis 3:22-24 (NASB)
22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"— 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
I guess no one is going to answer my question. I was just thinking, Adam and Eve were allowed to eat from every tree except the evil one. So they could have eaten from the tree of life, instead, and become immortal. With blood and a heartbeat.
So they had right to eat from the tree of life and very well had been eating from it till the fall?
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Carol Swenson
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I guess no one is going to answer my question. I was just thinking, Adam and Eve were allowed to eat from every tree except the evil one. So they could have eaten from the tree of life, instead, and become immortal. With blood and a heartbeat.
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Betty Louise
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My take is that we inherit our sinful nature in our blood. So it makes sense that we will have no blood.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Carol Swenson
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Did Adam and Eve have blood before the fall?
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Carol Swenson
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LOL you caught me!
Actually, just about every commentary I've ever read agrees that the resurrected Lord has no blood.
One commentary, though, brought up an interesting point. We don't lose anything in our resurrection, except the sin nature. Rather, our new bodies gain something, a glorification.
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WildB
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Oh throwing the old hair ball R-we lol.
1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
We are Spirital beings living in Earthen Vessels.
(this one is a self portrait.)
Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
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Carol Swenson
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Did He have hair? That isn't flesh or bone either.
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WildB
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a body without blood?
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
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Carol Swenson
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How does the Bible describe the glorified bodies we will possess in Heaven?
While the Bible doesn’t describe in detail the glorified bodies we will receive in heaven, we know that they will be like that of Jesus’ resurrected body. Our human bodies are described in 1 Corinthians 15:42–53 as perishable, dishonorable, and weak, all due to sin. Our glorified bodies will be imperishable, honorable, and powerful. Our new bodies will be no longer “natural” bodies, but “spiritual” bodies, no longer focused upon the natural senses but at one with the Holy Spirit.
As imperishable bodies, they will no longer suffer from sickness and death, nor will they ever be subject to heat and cold or hunger and thirst. Our new bodies will be honorable in that they will not be shamed or shameful because of sin. When Adam and Eve sinned, the first thing they felt was shame because of their nakedness (Genesis 3:6–7). Although the Bible doesn’t portray glorified bodies as being naked, but rather clothed in white garments (Revelation 3:4–5, 18), they will be pure and undefiled by sin. Our earthly bodies are “weak” in many ways. Not only are we subject to the natural laws of gravity and time/space, we are weakened by sin and its temptations. Our glorified bodies will be empowered by the Spirit that owns us, and weakness will be no more.
Just as our earthly bodies are perfectly suited to life on earth, our resurrected bodies will be the same for life in heaven. We will have form and solidity to the touch, yet with no hindrance to travel (John 20:19, 26; Luke 24:39). We will be able to enjoy food, but will not be driven to it by necessity for nourishment nor fleshly desire (Luke 24:40–43). And like Moses and Elijah, we will be able to bathe in the glory of our Maker in the fellowship of His dear Son (Matthew 17:2–3; Philippians 3:10). The bodies we inherit will be more like what God had originally made us to be, rather than what we now abide in through the infirmity and weakness of our sinful flesh. We will be glorified with Christ, and that glory will extend to the bodies we will inhabit.
http://www.gotquestions.org/glorified-bodies.html
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Carol Swenson
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All Things New!
Revelation 21-22
Human history begins in a Garden and ends in a City that is like a garden paradise. In the Apostle John's day, Rome was the admired city; yet God compared it to a harlot. "That which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God" (Luke 16:15). The eternal city of God is compared to a beautiful bride (Rev. 21:9), because it is the eternal home for God's beloved people.
God's statements recorded in Revelation 21:5-6 aptly summarize these final two chapters: "Behold, I make all things new.... It is done!" What began in Genesis is brought to completion in Revelation, as the following summary shows:
The Citizens of the City (Rev. 21:1-8)
John gives us a threefold description of the citizens of the city.
They are God's people (vv. 1-5). The first heaven and earth were prepared for the first man and woman and their descendants. God had readied everything for them when He placed them in the Garden. Unfortunately, our first parents sinned, ushering death and decay into God's beautiful world. Creation is in bondage and travail (Rom. 8:18-23), and even the heavens "are not clean in His sight" (Job 15:15).
God has promised His people a new heaven and earth (Isa. 65:17; 66:22). The old creation must make way for the new creation if God is to be glorified. Jesus called this event "the regeneration" of the earth (Matt. 19:28), and Peter explained it as a cleansing and renewing by fire (2 Peter 3:10-13). Bible students are not agreed as to whether the old elements will be renewed or whether the old will be destroyed and a whole new creation ushered in. The fact that the Greek word translated new means "new in character" (Rev. 21:1, 5) may lend credence to the former explanation.
"No more sea" does not mean "no more water." It simply indicates that the new earth will have a different arrangement as far as water is concerned. Three fourths of our globe consists of water, but this won't be the case in the eternal state. In John's day, the sea meant danger, storms, and separation (John himself was on an island at the time!); so perhaps John was giving us more than a geography lesson.
Even despite Scripture's description, it is difficult to imagine what the eternal city will be like. John characterizes it as a holy city (see Rev. 21:27), a prepared city (see John 14:1-6), and a beautiful city, as beautiful as a bride on her wedding day. He amplifies these characteristics in Revelation 21-22.
But the most important thing about the city is that God dwells there with His people. The Bible gives an interesting record of the dwelling places of God. First, God walked with man in the Garden of Eden. Then He dwelt with Israel in the tabernacle and later the temple. When Israel sinned, God had to depart from those dwellings. Later, Jesus Christ came to earth and "tabernacled" among us (John 1:14). Today, God does not live in man-made temples (Acts 7:48-50), but in the bodies of His people (1 Cor. 6:19-20) and in the church (Eph. 2:21-22).
In both the tabernacle and the temple, the veil stood between men and God. That veil was torn in two when Jesus died, thus opening a "new and living way" for God's people (Heb. 10:19ff). Even though God dwells in believers today by His Spirit, we still have not begun to understand God or fellowship with Him as we would like; but one day, we shall dwell in God's presence and enjoy Him forever.
The eternal city is so wonderful that the best way John found to describe it was by contrast—"no more." The believers who first read this inspired book must have rejoiced to know that, in heaven, there would be no more pain, tears, sorrow, or death; for many of their number had been tortured and slain. In every age, the hope of heaven has encouraged God's people in times of suffering.
The citizens of heaven are a satisfied people (v. 6). People who live in modern cities do not think much about water, but this was a major concern in John's day. No doubt John himself, working in the Roman mines, had known the meaning of thirst. Tortured saints throughout the ages would certainly identify with this wonderful promise from the Lord. Free and abundant living water for all!
These heavenly citizens are an overcoming people (vv. 7-8). "He that overcometh" is a key phrase in this book (Rev. 2:7, 11, 17, 26; 3:5, 12, 21; note also 12:11). As John pointed out in his first epistle, all true believers are overcomers (1 John 5:4-5), so this promise is not just for the "spiritually elite." Because we are the children of God, we shall inherit all things.
After the great Chicago fire of 1871, evangelist Dwight L. Moody went back to survey the ruins of his house. A friend came by and said to Moody, "I hear you lost everything."
"Well," said Moody, "you understood wrong. I have a good deal more left than I lost."
"What do you mean?" the inquisitive friend asked. "I didn't know you were that rich."
Moody then opened his Bible and read to him Revelation 21:7—"He that overcometh shall inherit all things, and I will be his God."
In contrast to the overcomers, Revelation 21:8 describes the people who were overcome by sin and would not trust the Lord. What is their destiny? The lake of fire! The world considers Christians as "losers," but it is the unbelievers who are the losers!
The fearful are the cowardly, the people who did not have the courage to stand up for Christ (see Matt. 10:32-33). The word abominable means "polluted," and refers to those who indulged in sin and were thus polluted in mind, spirit, and body (2 Cor. 7:1). The other characteristics mentioned in Revelation 21:8 need no special explanation, except to note that all of them would be true of "the beast's" followers (note Rev. 17:4, 6; 18:3, 9; 19:2).
The Character of the City (Rev. 21:9-22:5)
The eternal city is not only the home of the bride; it is the bride! A city is not buildings; it is people. The city John saw was holy and heavenly; in fact, it descended to earth from heaven, where it was prepared. John's description staggers the imagination, even accepting the fact that a great deal of symbolism is involved. Heaven is a real place of glory and beauty, the perfect home for the Lamb's bride.
We have already noted that "the glory of God" has appeared in different places throughout history. God's glory dwelt in the tabernacle and then in the temple. Today, His glory dwells in believers and in His church. For all eternity, the glory of God will be seen in His holy city. It is the only light the city will need.
The city's description follows the pattern of cities with which John's readers were familiar: foundations, walls, and gates. The foundations speak of permanence, in contrast to the tents in which "pilgrims and strangers" lived (Heb. 11:8-10). The walls and gates speak of protection. God's people will never have to fear any enemies. Angels at the gates will act as sentries!
In this city, saints of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant will be united. The twelve gates are identified with the twelve tribes of Israel, and the twelve foundations with the 12 Apostles (see Eph. 2:20). Including the tribe of Levi, there were actually thirteen tribes; and, including Paul, there were thirteen Apostles. When John listed the tribes in Revelation 7, both Dan and Ephraim were omitted, perhaps indicating that we should not press these matters too literally. John is simply assuring us that all of God's believing people will be included in the city (Heb. 11:39-40).
John had measured the earthly Jerusalem (Rev. 11), but now he is invited to measure the heavenly city. Foursquare means "equal on all sides," so the city might be a cube or a pyramid. More importantly, the fact that it is equal on all sides indicates the perfection of God's eternal city: nothing is out of order or balance.
The measurements are staggering! If we take a cubit as eighteen inches, then the city walls are 216 feet high! If a furlong is taken as 600 feet (measures differed in ancient days), the city would be about 1,500 miles square! There will be plenty of room for everyone!
The city's construction cannot but fascinate us. The walls are jasper, which is a clear crystal; but the city itself will be made of pure gold, as clear as crystal. The light of God's glory will shine throughout the city, resembling a huge holy of holies.
Building foundations are usually underground, but these foundations will not only be visible but beautifully garnished with precious stones. Each separate foundation will have its own jewel, and the blending of the colors will be magnificent as God's light shines through.
No one can be dogmatic about the colors of these gems, and it really does not matter. Jasper, as we have seen, is a clear crystal. Sapphire is a blue stone, and chalcedony is probably greenish-blue. The emerald, of course, is green; and the sardonyx is like our onyx, a white stone streaked with brown, though some scholars describe it as red and white.
Sardius is a red stone (sometimes described as "blood red"), and chrysolite a yellow quartz like our modern topaz. Beryl is green and topaz a yellow-green. We are not sure about the chrysoprasus; some think it is a golden-tinted stone, others, an apple-green color. The jacinth is probably blue, though some claim it was yellow; and the amethyst is a rich purple, or blue-red.
Our God is a God of beauty, and He will lavish His beauty on the city He is preparing for His people. Perhaps Peter had the holy city in mind when he wrote about the "manifold grace of God" (1 Peter 4:10), for the word translated "manifold" means "many colored, variegated."
In ancient times, the pearl was considered a "royal gem," produced by a mollusk covering an irritating grain of sand within its shell. But the pearl gates of the heavenly city will never be closed (Rev. 21:25) because there will be no danger of anything entering that would disturb or defile her citizens.
John noted that some items were missing from the city, but their absence only magnified its glory. There will be no temple, since the entire city will be indwelt by God's presence. Indeed, "secular" and "sacred" will be indistinguishable in heaven. The sun and moon will be absent since the Lord is the light of the city, and there will never be any night (see Isa. 60:19).
The mention of nations in Revelation 21:24 and 26 suggests that there will be peoples (plural) on the new earth. Since in the eternal state there will be only glorified beings, we must not think that the earth will be populated with various nations such as exist today. Instead, these verses reflect the ancient practice of kings and nations bringing their wealth and glory to the city of the greatest king. In the heavenly city, everyone will honor the "King of kings" (see Pss. 68:29; 72:10-11; Isa. 60).
In Revelation 22:1-5, we move inside the city to discover that it is like a beautiful garden, reminiscent of the Garden of Eden. There were four rivers in Eden (Gen. 2:10-14), but there is only one river in the heavenly city. Ezekiel saw a purifying river flowing from the temple, certainly a millennial scene (Ezek. 47); but this river will flow directly from God's throne, the very source of all purity. Man was prohibited from eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and prevented from eating of the tree of life (Gen. 2:15-17; 3:22-24). But in the eternal home, man will have access to the tree of life. The river and the tree symbolize abundant life in the glorious city.
"No more curse" takes us back to Genesis 3:14-19 where the curse began. Interestingly, even the Old Testament closes with the statement, "Lest I come and smite the earth with a curse" (Mal. 4:6). But the New Testament announces, "And there shall be no more curse!" Satan will be consigned to hell; all of creation will be made new; and the curse of sin will be gone forever.
What will we do in heaven for all eternity? Certainly, we shall praise the Lord, but we shall also serve Him. "His servants shall serve Him" (Rev. 22:3) is a great encouragement to us, for in heaven our service will be perfect. As we seek to serve the Lord here on earth, we are constantly handicapped by sin and weakness; but all hindrances will be gone when we get to glory. Perfect service in a perfect environment!
What will this service be? We are not told, nor do we need to know now. It is sufficient that we know what God wants us to do today. Our faithfulness in life prepares us for higher service in heaven. In fact, some students think that we shall have access to the vast universe and perhaps be sent on special missions to other places. But it is useless to speculate, because God has not seen fit to fill in the details.
Not only shall we be servants in heaven, but we shall also be kings. We shall reign forever and ever! This speaks of sharing Christ's authority in glory. As believers, we are seated with Christ in the heavenlies today (Eph. 2:1-10); but in the eternal state, we shall reign as kings over the new heavens and earth. What an honor! What grace!
Certainly, many interesting questions could be asked about our future abode in heaven, but most must go unanswered until we reach our glorious home. In fact, John closed his book by reminding us that we have responsibilities today because we are going to heaven.
The Challenge of the City (Rev. 22:6-21)
Heaven is more than a destination; it is a motivation. Knowing that we shall dwell in the heavenly city ought to make a difference in our lives here and now. The vision of the heavenly city motivated the patriarchs as they walked with God and served Him (Heb. 11:10, 13-16). Knowing that He was returning to the Father in heaven also encouraged Jesus Christ as He faced the cross (Heb. 12:2). The assurance of heaven must not lull us into complacency or carelessness, but spur us to fulfill our spiritual duties.
We must keep God's Word (vv. 6-11, 18-19). Because what John wrote is the Word of God, his words are faithful and true (see Rev. 19:11). The same God who spoke through the prophets also spoke through the Apostle John. As the "capstone" of God's revelation, John's book cannot be divorced from the rest of the Bible. If we deny that John wrote the truth, then we must also deny the prophets.
What does it mean to "keep the sayings of the prophecy of this book"? (Rev. 22:7) Basically, it means to guard, to watch over, to preserve intact. We must not add to the Word of God or take anything from it (see Deut 4:2; Prov. 30:5-6). And this responsibility is especially great in light of Christ's return. The word shortly in Revelation 22:6 means "quickly come to pass." The church has expected Christ to return since the days of the Apostles, and He has not yet come; but when John's prophecies begin to be fulfilled, they will happen very quickly. There will be no delay.
The warnings in Revelation 22:18-19 do not suggest that people who tamper with the Bible will be brought back to earth to suffer the Tribulation's plagues, or that they will lose their salvation. Nobody fully understands the Bible or can explain everything in it; and those of us who teach the Word sometimes have to change our interpretations as we grow in knowledge. God sees the heart, and He can separate ignorance from impudence and immaturity from rebellion.
It was customary in ancient days for writers to put this kind of warning at the close of their books, because the people who copied them for public distribution might be tempted to tamper with the material. However, John's warning was not addressed to a writer, but to the hearer, the believer in the congregation where this book was read aloud. By analogy, however, it would apply to anyone reading and studying the book today. We may not be able to explain the penalties given, but we do know this: it is a dangerous thing to tamper with the Word of God. The one who guards the Word and obeys it will be blessed; the one who alters it will be disciplined in some way.
For a second time, John was overwhelmed by what he saw and heard; and he fell down to worship the angel who was speaking to him (see Rev. 19:10). The angel gave John three words of counsel: do not worship angels; worship God; and do not seal up the Revelation. The Prophet Daniel was commanded to seal his book (Dan. 12:4), because the time was not yet ready. John's book was an "apocalypse," an unveiling (Rev. 1:1); and, therefore, it must not be sealed.
Once again, the Holy Spirit is reminding us of the living unity of God's Word. We have seen in our study how John, led by the Spirit, reached back into the Old Testament and used many of the images found there, including Daniel's prophecy. Scripture is its own best interpreter.
Does Revelation 22:11 suggest that God does not want men to repent and change their ways? No, because that would be contrary to the message of Revelation and of the Gospel itself. The angel's words must be understood in light of the repeated statement, "Behold, I come quickly" (Rev. 22:7, 12), as well as his statement, "For the time is at hand" (Rev. 22:10). Jesus Christ's coming will occur so quickly that men will not have time to change their characters.
Revelation 22:11, therefore, is a solemn warning that decision determines character, and character determines destiny. Suffering believers might ask, "Is it worth it to live a godly life?" John's reply is, "Yes! Jesus is returning, and He will reward you!" Next comes John's second admonition.
We have the responsibility of serving the Lord (vv. 12-14). "My reward is with Me" implies that God is mindful of our sufferings and our service, and nothing will ever be done in vain if it is done for Him. At the Judgment Seat of Christ, believers will be judged according to their works; and rewards will be given to those who have been faithful.
Throughout church history, there have been those who have (to use Dwight L. Moody's words) become "so heavenly minded that they were no earthly good." They quit their jobs, sold their property, and sat and waited for Jesus to return. All of them have been embarrassed, of course, because it is unbiblical to set dates for His coming. It is also unbiblical to become careless and lazy just because we believe Jesus is coming soon. Paul faced this problem with some of the believers in Thessalonica (2 Thes. 3).
No wonder John added, "Blessed are they that do His commandments" (Rev. 22:14). If we really believe that Jesus is coming soon, we will watch and be faithful (Luke 12:35ff).
Revelation 22:13 is a great encouragement to anyone who seeks to serve the Lord. Whatever God starts, He will finish; for He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the first and the last (see Phil. 1:6; 2:12-13).
We must keep our lives clean (vv. 15-16). The contrast here is between those who do God's commandments and enter the city, and those who reject His Word and are excluded from the city (see Rev. 21:8, 27). It is not likely that those who "do His commandments" are a special or an elite group of saints. The phrase is similar to "them that overcome" and characterizes all the people of God. Obedience to God's Word is a mark of true salvation.
Our Lord's titles in Revelation 22:16 are most interesting. The "root" is buried in the ground where no one can see it, but the "star" is in the heavens where everyone can see it. In "the Root and Offspring of David" we have Jesus' Jewish, national name, but in "the Bright and Morning Star" we have His universal name. One speaks of humility, the other of majesty and glory.
As "the Root... of David," Jesus Christ brought David into existence. As "the Offspring of David," Jesus came into this world, born a Jew from David's line. Both the deity and the humanity of Jesus are evident here. For a parallel, see Matthew 22:41-46.
The "morning star" announces dawn's soon arrival. Jesus Christ will come for His church as "the Morning Star." But when He returns to judge, it will be as "the Sun of righteousness" in burning fury (Mal. 4:1-3). Because God's people look for their Lord's return, they keep their lives clean and dedicated to Him (1 John 2:28-3:3).
We must keep expecting Jesus Christ to return (vv. 17, 20-21). Three times in this closing chapter John wrote, "I [Christ] come quickly" (Rev. 22:7, 12, 20). But He has "delayed" His return for nearly 2,000 years! Yes, He has; and Peter tells us why: God wants to give this sinful world opportunity to repent and be saved (2 Peter 3:1ff). In the meantime, the Spirit of God, through the church (the bride), calls for Jesus to come; for the bride wants to meet her Bridegroom and enter into her home. "Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev. 22:20).
But believers ought also to invite lost sinners to trust Christ and drink the water of life. Indeed, when the church lives in expectancy of Christ's return, such an attitude provokes ministry and evangelism as well as purity of heart. We want to tell others of the grace of God. A true understanding of Bible prophecy should both motivate us to obey God's Word and to share God's invitation with a lost world.
If our study of Revelation has been truly led by the Spirit, then we will join John in the Bible's last prayer:
"Even so, come, Lord Jesus!"
Bible Exposition Commentary - Be Victorious (Revelation)
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