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Author
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Topic: What Can Believers Do in Days of Apostasy?
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
Well I only got to see his feet in a vision while in my rack at sea on my ship as a young man. I kinda knew whoes they were but I wanted to know so I started looking up and was stopped by a sign with words on it. That said, "Follow Me!" So thats what I have been doing.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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scythewieldor
unregistered
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posted
WildB,
You're absolutely right not to care for my opinion. I don't want it, either. I don't want it any more than I want the opinion of any other man that was not taught, face to face, by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.
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WildB
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Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by scythewieldor:
The "If" statement above requires that we find out the value of the pretext that follows.
First of all, God did not "set aside the Nation of Israel" in Acts. He re-generated it.
Romans 11
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then?Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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scythewieldor
unregistered
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posted
WildB
quote:
If God did not radically change the program for His Church after the Nation Israel was set aside, and the transition of the “Acts” period came to an end, then one hundred per cent of the members of the Church of God are disobedient and unfaithful. And as some preacher has said, “if the signs of Mark 16:17 and 18 are the credentials of a Christian, there have been no Christians since the apostles died.”
The "If" statement above requires that we find out the value of the pretext that follows.
First of all, God did not "set aside the Nation of Israel" in Acts. He re-generated it. The Nation of Israel had been set aside 750 years (or, so) before the crucifixion.
The Lord had married Israel. His covenant had made them a nation. When Israel broke His Covenant, He divorced Israel, and began scattering ten of her tribes abroad. Only Benjamin and Levi remained in the area. They remained with the Nation of Judah through the Babylonian captivity and the return from that captivity all the way to the time of Acts.
Jesus was not sent to any but the lost sheep of the House of Israel. The two tribes of Israel in Judea (Benjamin and Levi) were the lost sheep of the de-generated House of Israel to which the Lord began sending His disciples. When Jesus was killed, He regenerated the Nation of Israel under the New Covenant.
Otherwise, he could not make us part of the Commonwealth of Israel.
quote:
Eph 2:11-15 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;...19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit...
For 750 years, the lost sheep of ten tribes of the House of Israel scattered among the gentiles were "aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". However, the gospel that Paul preached was that "now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ".
The attempt of some to make Ephesians 2&3 say what i does not has drawn attention to the bible truth that is there. The Commonwealth of Israel, a national entity, was valid enough to God to join gentiles to it by the blood of Christ. That was Paul's gospel for the gentiles: we who were once far off were made one with the saints in the Commonwealth of Israel. We are fellowcitizens with them.
In fact, there is absolutely no wall separating us from them. We are not second class citizens who must live apart from the best things of the commonwealth. Everything that makes up the Commonwealth of Israel is ours as much as any other saint's. (Paul says "builded together".)
Now, what did come to an end was the Nation of Judah in which 2 tribes of Israel were taking refuge. When the chief priests told Pilate "We have no king but Caesar", there ceased to be a priesthood that could carry out the atonement for sins. The Old Covenant came to a complete end forever.
That means that that which made Judah a nation became inert. None of Abraham's seed that needed atonement for sin could find mercy. Jesus, not needing atonement for sin, became the only "Seed of Abraham" - the only heir of the promise of God to Abraham.
Acts was a transition period, all right. It was the period during which the apostles began making known the ordinances of the Commonwealth of Israel (regenerated by the New Covenant) to the lost sheep of the house of Israel being gathered from the gentiles. (The word interpreted "church" means "gathering". The apostles knew they were gathering people to populate the New Covenant Commonwealth of Israel.
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by scythewieldor:
[qb] WildB,
Wow. You have addressed a lot of weaknesses.
An infinite amount of time can be spent doing that. In fact, cults spend a lot of their religious energy on telling the gullible what the problems are with other groups.
I don't give a hoot about what others are doing. Christ and His apostles gave us decrees so that we could know what we should be doing.
I see you spend a lot of time talking about the dispensation of grace. Let's find out something about the grace made known by the Holy Spirit and the apostles.
quote:
Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Grace 101
Here is an interesting notion; the grace of God that bringeth salvation has appeared to all men. Does all men mean all men? Kind of help me understand what that statement means to you.
Here's what it means to me. quote:
Ac 14:15-17 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
Every man in every place has seen God do good for them though they may have been idolatrous sinners.
Grace 102
Another interesting notion about grace is that it teaches us. Specifically, grace teaches us to turn from ungodliness and worldly lusts to live soberly, righteously, and godly...
Since grace teaches, it behooves us to have definitions in the subjects of grace.
We need to know the things to which we are being taught to say "No". What are your definitions of ungodliness and worldly lust?
We need to know the things to which we are being taught to say "Yes". What does it men to you to live soberly, righteously, and godly?
Grace 103
Grace teaches us to make the changes discussed above "in this present world". What is your definition of the world present when Paul wrote to Titus?
I don't believe any saved person would disregard Paul's input on the range, purpose, or character of grace, so, this seems like a wonderful place to start the discussion of that subject. [/qb
Grace=
Gifts
Rendered
At
Christ
Expense.
I really don't care about your opinions. They seamed to have been molded from a substance other than Grace.
![[cool_shades]](graemlins/cool_shades.gif)
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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scythewieldor
unregistered
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posted
WildB,
Wow. You have addressed a lot of weaknesses.
An infinite amount of time can be spent doing that. In fact, cults spend a lot of their religious energy on telling the gullible what the problems are with other groups.
I don't give a hoot about what others are doing. Christ and His apostles gave us decrees so that we could know what we should be doing.
I see you spend a lot of time talking about the dispensation of grace. Let's find out something about the grace made known by the Holy Spirit and the apostles.
quote:
Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Grace 101
Here is an interesting notion; the grace of God that bringeth salvation has appeared to all men. Does all men mean all men? Kind of help me understand what that statement means to you.
Here's what it means to me. quote:
Ac 14:15-17 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
Every man in every place has seen God do good for them though they may have been idolatrous sinners.
Grace 102
Another interesting notion about grace is that it teaches us. Specifically, grace teaches us to turn from ungodliness and worldly lusts to live soberly, righteously, and godly...
Since grace teaches, it behooves us to have definitions in the subjects of grace.
We need to know the things to which we are being taught to say "No". What are your definitions of ungodliness and worldly lust?
We need to know the things to which we are being taught to say "Yes". What does it men to you to live soberly, righteously, and godly?
Grace 103
Grace teaches us to make the changes discussed above "in this present world". What is your definition of the world present when Paul wrote to Titus?
I don't believe any saved person would disregard Paul's input on the range, purpose, or character of grace, so, this seems like a wonderful place to start the discussion of that subject.
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
quote:
Mere men of earth. Do not be afraid. We are the new creature, a holy nation, one new man in Christ Jesus. We are here to take possession of your gates in the Name of Jesus. This will be a blessing to all of your families. Resistance is foolish.
His signature tells us what he thinks of this dispensation of grace.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
The Dispensational Answer to Undispensational Religious Practices
One of the principal reasons why we are publishing this 320 page book, entitled “The Unsearchable Riches of Christ,” why we are sending forth these messages emphasizing the Divine truth which the risen Christ revealed to the Apostle Paul, is to prove that that truth, designated “the unsearchable riches of Christ,” is God’s curative for every doctrinal ill and “ism” with which the Body of Christ is afflicted. It is God’s curative for the fanaticism which is being practiced and propagated by many sincere, zealous saints who are sincerely wrong. You will find many statements reiterated many times in these messages, for they are printed from manuscripts. We trust that they may be used among some of the members of our Radio Bible Class when they gather in groups for Bible study.
Let us explain what is meant by “the dispensational answer to undispensational religious practices.” You and I know that there are many saints in the different religious organizations in this country. We refer to the organizations that claim to be Christian organizations. They claim that they are organized to practice and propagate Bible Christianity. In creed, doctrine, and practice, they attempt to prove by statements from the Bible that they are carrying on a Scriptural religious program.
Presently we shall mention by name some of the twenty sects or religious leaders which we have in mind. In the religious program of these twenty “churches” we find that they teach and practice
1—Christians should eat no pork.
2—Christians should keep Israel’s seventh day Sabbath.
3—Christians should wash one another’s feet.
4—Christians should not wear jewelry.
5—Christians should sell their property and put the money in a common treasury
6—Christians should not pay a pastor a stipulated salary.
7—Preachers should go out two by two.
8—Preachers should not have any money in their purses.
9—Christians should cast out demons.
10—Christians should raise the dead.
11—Christians should heal the lepers.
12—Christians should lay hands on the sick and thus restore health.
13—Christians should anoint the sick with oil.
14—Christians should bless aprons and handkerchiefs and cure the sick by putting them on their bodies.
15—Christians should have visions and dream dreams.
16—Christians should not be injured by the poison from serpents.
17—Christians should speak with tongues and other Christians should be able to interpret.
18—Christians should have the gift of discerning of spirits.
19—Christians should cut off their offending hands and pluck out their offending eyes.
20—Christians should lend money to any one who would borrow and not expect the return of the loan.
21—Christians should take a gift to the priest when they are healed.
22—Christians should have miraculous jail deliverances.
23—Christians receive no more forgiveness from God than others receive from these same Christians.
24—The meek shall inherit the earth.
25—Christians should do greater works than Christ did.
26—Christians should give up their cloaks also when sued for their coats.
27—Christians should not have two coats.
28—Christians should be circumcised.
29—Christians should practice the imposition of hands.
30—Believers should be baptized with water for the remission of sins.
Before you condemn or ridicule any of these twenty groups for including these religious ceremonies and practices in their programs, find one single one of them that is not wholly Scriptural. Then ask yourself this question: “How many of the thirty do I practice?” Check them on the list. Then tell yourself why you do not include more of the thirty in your program. Your answer will perhaps be, “they do not belong to this dispensation.” Those that you rule out by your dispensational principle, mean your dispensational answer to some undispensational religious practices. But are you absolutely positive that what you believe, endorse or practice is both Scriptural and dispensationally correct?
When that religious woman in California recently cut off her hand because it offended her, was she not obeying the words of the Lord?
GOD’S ONE CHURCH
Every saved individual, during the present Divine economy, whether Jew or Gentile, is a member of the Body of Christ, “the Church of God which He hath purchased with His own blood.” Acts 20:28. In this age of grace God requires no religious ceremonies for salvation or for membership in the one true Bible Church. But God does demand faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and in His shed blood for salvation. And God’s Book declares, “by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8 and 9. There are multitudes of religious people, members of some religious organization, who are not saved. Moreover there are perhaps as many trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ and in His redemptive work, who, like the foolish Galatians, are trying to make the finished work of Christ more efficacious, by mixing in some religious doings. To them the Apostle Paul has written
“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.” “Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” Galatians 2:21, Galatians 1:6 and 7, Galatians 5:1.
We shall not consider the religious programs of the new metaphysical cults, which are propagating their Satanic vagaries, in the name of Christianity, in fulfillment of II Corinthians 11:13 to 15, II Peter 2:1 and 2, and I Timothy 4:1 and 7. With their Christianized pagan philosophies they have here and there mixed in a verse of Scripture which they have invariably corrupted. Every one of them deny all of the fundamentals of true Bible Christianity. But they all have much to say about Jesus and His program of physical healing, without the use of drugs or other material remedies. Concerning them God’s warning is, “bringing in the damnable heresies denying the Lord that bought them”; “seducing spirits”; “doctrines of demons”; “gone in the way of Cain.” II Peter 2:1, I Timothy 4:1, Jude 11.
But now let us consider the “church” creeds and religious programs of religious organizations whose members claim to believe the Bible and who profess faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His precious shed blood.
more here https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/the-dispensational-answer-to-undispensational-religious-practices/
CASE NUMBER ONE
About fifty miles north of Chicago there is a religious town made up of religious people. And there are some splendid, godly, saved people there. At the head of that religious colony there is a religious man, who preaches much sound doctrine. He doesn’t seem to obey I Peter 5:3, “neither as being lords over God’s heritage.” But he does proclaim the message of blood redemption and presents a high standard of Christian living, even if it is a mixture of grace and law.
There is a religious hotel in that religious town. In the dining-room of that hotel the religious cooks are forbidden to serve any meat that has come from any part of a hog. Even Swift’s Premium bacon is tabooed. Undoubtedly if one of the cooks in that hotel should serve a piece of pork in that religious dining room, that cook would learn that he might think he is living in the day of grace, but he would be discharged by the overseer, according to the law of Moses. That overseer prefers to be governed by the legal message of Deuteronomy 14:8, rather than by the grace message of I Timothy 4:3 to 5. But you and I must agree that the brother is Scriptural in his law, “no pork.”
Along with the law of “no pork” is the law of “no surgeons.” Divine healing of the body is one of their principal doctrines. Many of them practice, as well as preach, Divine healing. But of course they die just like other saints, and like all the sinners, in spite of their doctrine, for until the Lord Jesus returns to redeem the bodies of God’s people the death rate will continue to be one apiece. But you and I must agree that God’s saints in the Bible, during certain periods, were miraculously healed without doctors and medicine.
These dear people have gone through litigation, sorrow, and some disgrace trying to carry on the communism, described in Acts 2:44 and 45 and in Acts 4:34 and 35.
“And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.” “Neither was there any among them that lacked; for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.”
Yes, a communism is Scriptural. Now we say that the founders and leaders of that religious colony have capriciously and arbitrarily selected a few of the thirty religious practices found in the Bible, and have eliminated and ignored the others, without explanation or apology.
CASE NUMBER TWO
It would be wonderful if sane evangelical Christians would display the aggressive spirit, the zeal, the determination, and the energy found among the Seventh Day Adventists. They believe the Bible, although you and I often feel that the Epistles of Paul have been wholly ignored by them. We wonder if they have ever read the Epistle to the Galatians, the third chapter of II Corinthians, or the second chapter of Colossians, or Romans 6:14.
They, too, have capriciously and arbitrarily selected a few of the thirty religious practices which we have enumerated, and have passed up the others. They have selected Israel’s seventh day sabbath; “no pork”; “the religious washing of feet”; and some of them are strong on water baptism for “the remission of sins”; and some are stronger than others on Divine healing.
Of course they have in their program a damnable heresy teaching that the believer’s sins will ultimately be placed on Satan, the scape-goat, who will be loosed to go into the wilderness. They have a silly unscriptural teaching concerning “the sabbath” and “the mark of the beast.” But in many of their religious practices they are Scriptural. We quote the Scriptures:
“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.” “The seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God.” Exodus 20:8 and 10.
“He (Jesus) came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and, as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.” Luke 4:16.
“On the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.” Acts 16:13.
“If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another’s feet.” John 13:14.
“And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet sheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.” Deuteronomy 14:8.
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” Acts 2:38.
The first day of the week is not the sabbath of the Lord thy God. The seventh day is the Scriptural sabbath. The Lord never has changed the sabbath from the seventh day to the first day. But there are some dear religious people who call Sunday “the Christian sabbath”; and others miscall Sunday “the Lord’s day.” Is not a Christian a follower of Jesus Christ? Did not Jesus Christ attend Divine services on the seventh day sabbath? Did not Paul also?
Intelligent students of the Bible know from Colossians 2:11 to 16, II Corinthians 3:9 to 16, and Ephesians 2:6 that members of Christ’s Body have nothing to do with Israel’s sabbath.
But why do most of the Christian leaders, who are straight on the sabbath, pay no attention to John 13:14, and neglect the washing of feet? They use water in baptizing, but not in washing of feet. They say the washing of feet was symbolic of cleansing. Was not also water baptism?
But the Adventists are Scriptural in their religious practices. But of course they are utterly inconsistent in selecting five or six of the religious practices and ignoring the others.
CASE NUMBER THREE
In the city of Minneapolis there is a splendid man of God, a fighting, uncompromising Fundamentalist. He has been a real defender of the faith, and an aggressive evangelist. He is a zealous immersionist. For years in his auditorium a very godly man carried on a special ministry of healing. He prayed over, and in some way blessed handkerchiefs that were in turn used for healing the physical infirmities of the saints. The dear brother was very much in earnest about those blessed handkerchiefs, and of course claimed positive cures.
The pastor, who believed in physical healing, endorsed the healing ministry. But he has failed to include in his “church” program the other religious practices mentioned above.
Now the question, “isn’t it Scriptural to bless handkerchiefs”? Didn’t Paul say, “follow me,” and didn’t Paul bless handkerchiefs?
“And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.” Acts 19:11 and 12.
The pastor of that church tried to practice some of the program of Acts 19:1 to 12. He has accepted water baptism and the blessing of handkerchiefs. Well, some believers were baptized and the apostle prayed over handkerchiefs or aprons. But our brother is very inconsistent because he has wholly ignored the religious practice recorded in the same chapter, Acts 19:6:
“And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they speak with tongues, and prophesied.”
Now let’s be honest and unprejudiced and fair-minded. What right has any servant of the Lord to arbitrarily select baptism, and some religious handkerchiefs, and ignore the imposition of hands for Holy Spirit baptism and the speaking with tongues, when all are linked together in the same chapter and the same Divine economy? Didn’t Paul say, “follow me” If we are to follow Paul in the matter of water and religious handkerchiefs, why not in the imposition of hands for Holy Spirit baptism and speaking with tongues? Hear Paul’s testimony
“Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.” “I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all.” I Corinthians 14:39 and 14:18.
There is a very zealous Fundamentalist here in Chicago. He is the brother responsible for disrupting the fellowship in the Fundamentalist Ministers’ Association by introducing a resolution concerning water baptism into the Association. He and one of the leading pastors of the city carried through their determined purpose after they were urged and warned. But the brother was somewhat consistent in contending so strenuously for the water because he delighted in the use of oil for physical healing. Water and oil belong to the same spiritual program in the Bible. Although James did write “to the twelve tribes of Israel,” and although he did say in Acts 15:19, “wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God,” and although there is no record in the Bible that any Gentiles were anointed with oil, the Bible does say,
“Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.” James 5:13 and 14.
All of these brethren dispensationally, or otherwise, rule out many of the religious practices mentioned above, while holding on to their “pet” doctrines and practices.
CASE NUMBER FOUR
Have you ever heard of the Two-By-Two saints ?
These religious Christians have very little fellowship with other Christians. They are sincerely religious and endeavor to strictly and literally obey that part of the program of Jesus that they have selected for their program, especially Luke 10:1 to 12 and Matthew 10:7 to 14.
The program in Luke 10 is very much the same as in Matthew 10. Let us note something of the message and the method in these commissions of Jesus of Nazareth to His twelve Jewish apostles to the Jewish nation
“After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them TWO AND TWO before His face into every city and place, whither He Himself would come.” “Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.” “And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of His hire. Go not from house to house.” “And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.” Luke 10:1, 4, 7 and 9 to 11.
“But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand, Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold nor silver, nor brass in your purses. Nor scrip for journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.” Matthew 10:6 to 10.
The Lord Jesus most assuredly commanded His chosen messengers to preach and do what the “Two-and-Two” religious messengers in this country are trying to do. They certainly endeavor to conduct themselves according to the Bible. Other Christians call them “fanatical.” Why are they fanatical? If they are fanatical, it is not because they are unscriptural, but because they are undispensational. They pay no attention whatever to “the dispensation of the grace of God” of Ephesians 3:1 to 11, and God’s orders in II Timothy 2:15, “rightly dividing the Word of Truth.” They ignore the message and program which the risen Christ gave to “the apostle to the Gentiles,” to supersede His kingdom message to Israel, and cry with other confused and deluded Christians, “back to Jesus.” They disfellowship all Christians who do not send and receive two preachers instead of one, or any company of believers who pay a pastor a monthly salary. They try to obey the Lord’s command “take no money for your journey.” They have utterly failed in one of the Lord’s commands, “raise the dead.” But they will shake the dust off on those who do not receive them.
Of the thirty religious practices mentioned above they arbitrarily select seven or eight of them and forget the others.
CASE NUMBER FIVE
For some years a very religious and clever woman in California has been the head, the bishop, the evangelist, the baptizer, the pastor, and the Bible-teacher of a company of sincere religious people. The leader and the followers have been very zealous for Jesus, and they would not think of receiving into their membership or fellowship any person who did not believe in the verbal inspiration of the Bible and the Deity and redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ. That religious woman has had several slogans for her particular program—“Jesus Christ the Same Yesterday, Today and Forever”; “Health, Happiness and Heaven”; “This Is That”; “The Latter Rain”; and many others.
She has included about as many of the thirty practices in her religious program as any other person. She has been strong on baptism, but she has scattered flowers on the water, without any Scriptural authority. Under the influence of her religious hands many have fallen under some kind of power with the cry, “this is that,” “slain of the Lord.” They have experienced religious ecstasy and have broken forth speaking in new tongues. Part of her program is certainly according to the Bible. Note Mark 16:17 and 18:
“And these signs shall follow them that believe; In My name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”
But she has been positively disobedient to the plain word of God, in I Timothy 2:11 and 12.
“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. “
She can cleverly explain this away to the satisfaction of her deluded followers. She can prove to them by her visions that she is one of the handmaidens about whom Joel prophesied.
This religious sister, whose slogan has been “back to Jesus” and “back to Pentecost,” has overlooked or ignored Luke 12:33:
“Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.”
She has accumulated no small fortune. Financially, she is well fixed. She has let her followers obey Luke 12:33 to her gain. There are about fifteen of the thirty practices that she has eliminated or ignored.
Some of the Pentecostalists in their programs have added one or more religious practices to this woman’s program.
CASE NUMBER SIX: THE SNAKE BITING PREACHER
In today’s newspaper is an account of the arrest of a preacher who has encouraged members of his flock, and some of his own family, to prove that Mark 16:17 and 18 is for this age; and that if it were not for the unbelief on the part of Christian preachers, these miracles would be constantly performed by all believers. So the poisonous serpents are brought into the religious meetings for the demonstration. Let us read the verses:
“And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In My name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”
“If they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them.” So they drink it to prove that Christ and the Scriptures are true. We say they are fanatical.
CASE NUMBER SEVEN
We might group the Lutherans, the Methodists, the Baptists, the Plymouth Brethren, the Presbyterians, and others. Consider the program of any one of them.
All of these churches, without explanation or apology, without presenting any intelligent Divine principle, have from their church creeds and programs omitted eighty per cent of the thirty religious practices which we have quoted from the Bible. They have all ignored I Corinthians 12:28 and I Corinthians 12:8 to 11:
“And God hath set some in the Church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healing, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.” I Corinthians 12:28. “For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as He will.” I Corinthians 12:8 to 11.
If God set them in the Church, who set them out? No one but God had that right. If He did it, when and how did He do it?
By whose authority have the Presbyterians voted for water baptism by sprinkling and kept silent concerning these sign-gifts of I Corinthians? Think of the inconsistency of the other denominations that teach that this present “grace” economy began with Peter and the Eleven on the day of Pentecost and without explanation or apology, they omit from their “church” programs, the visions, tongues, miracles, surrender of houses and lots, baptismal regeneration, anointing with oil, blessed handkerchiefs and aprons and every other religious practice except the baptismal font or tank of the “Acts” period. They all like the water, but concerning this religious ceremony no two of them agree. Many of them talk much of following the Lord in baptism, but they have nothing to say about following Him in many other religious practices. Why?
They make not the slightest endeavor to obey the “kingdom” orders and program of Jesus of Nazareth presented to His people when He was here on earth, but many of them condemn in no uncertain language another messenger who presents the Scriptural principle to be used by members of the Body of Christ for the selection or the elimination of those Scriptural ceremonies and commands which rightly belong to other dispensations but which have no rightful place in this present economy of grace.
The Roman Catholics have much religion in their program. But they frankly admit that their ecclesiastical potentates and dignitaries have assumed the right both to interpret the Scriptures and to add to the Bible such other religious doctrines and practices as they may elect. They have a healing ministry. Their priests and bishops bless water, or bones, or garments for the healing of physical afflictions, and the recipients of this healing ministry are instructed to obey Matthew 8:4:
“ . . . go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.”
Other healing preachers are not so consistent. They claim to heal on the authority of Matthew 8:3, 16 and 17; but they wholly ignore the command of Matthew 8:4, concerning the priests and the law of Moses.
A FEW QUESTIONS
Now these important and interesting questions:
1—How many or how few of the thirty religious practices are for the obedience of members of the Body of Christ?
2—Have Christians any Scriptural right to select one, two, three, five, ten, or twenty, or more of the thirty for their obedience and practice without offering some Godgiven principle?
3—Is there not such a Divine principle in the Bible?
The answer to this question, and many other questions, is found in this book with the title, “The Unsearchable Riches of Christ.”
If God did not radically change the program for His Church after the Nation Israel was set aside, and the transition of the “Acts” period came to an end, then one hundred per cent of the members of the Church of God are disobedient and unfaithful. And as some preacher has said, “if the signs of Mark 16:17 and 18 are the credentials of a Christian, there have been no Christians since the apostles died.”
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WildB
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The Dispensational Answer to Undispensational Religious Practices
One of the principal reasons why we are publishing this 320 page book, entitled “The Unsearchable Riches of Christ,” why we are sending forth these messages emphasizing the Divine truth which the risen Christ revealed to the Apostle Paul, is to prove that that truth, designated “the unsearchable riches of Christ,” is God’s curative for every doctrinal ill and “ism” with which the Body of Christ is afflicted. It is God’s curative for the fanaticism which is being practiced and propagated by many sincere, zealous saints who are sincerely wrong. You will find many statements reiterated many times in these messages, for they are printed from manuscripts. We trust that they may be used among some of the members of our Radio Bible Class when they gather in groups for Bible study.
Let us explain what is meant by “the dispensational answer to undispensational religious practices.” You and I know that there are many saints in the different religious organizations in this country. We refer to the organizations that claim to be Christian organizations. They claim that they are organized to practice and propagate Bible Christianity. In creed, doctrine, and practice, they attempt to prove by statements from the Bible that they are carrying on a Scriptural religious program.
Presently we shall mention by name some of the twenty sects or religious leaders which we have in mind. In the religious program of these twenty “churches” we find that they teach and practice
1—Christians should eat no pork.
2—Christians should keep Israel’s seventh day Sabbath.
3—Christians should wash one another’s feet.
4—Christians should not wear jewelry.
5—Christians should sell their property and put the money in a common treasury
6—Christians should not pay a pastor a stipulated salary.
7—Preachers should go out two by two.
8—Preachers should not have any money in their purses.
9—Christians should cast out demons.
10—Christians should raise the dead.
11—Christians should heal the lepers.
12—Christians should lay hands on the sick and thus restore health.
13—Christians should anoint the sick with oil.
14—Christians should bless aprons and handkerchiefs and cure the sick by putting them on their bodies.
15—Christians should have visions and dream dreams.
16—Christians should not be injured by the poison from serpents.
17—Christians should speak with tongues and other Christians should be able to interpret.
18—Christians should have the gift of discerning of spirits.
19—Christians should cut off their offending hands and pluck out their offending eyes.
20—Christians should lend money to any one who would borrow and not expect the return of the loan.
21—Christians should take a gift to the priest when they are healed.
22—Christians should have miraculous jail deliverances.
23—Christians receive no more forgiveness from God than others receive from these same Christians.
24—The meek shall inherit the earth.
25—Christians should do greater works than Christ did.
26—Christians should give up their cloaks also when sued for their coats.
27—Christians should not have two coats.
28—Christians should be circumcised.
29—Christians should practice the imposition of hands.
30—Believers should be baptized with water for the remission of sins.
Before you condemn or ridicule any of these twenty groups for including these religious ceremonies and practices in their programs, find one single one of them that is not wholly Scriptural. Then ask yourself this question: “How many of the thirty do I practice?” Check them on the list. Then tell yourself why you do not include more of the thirty in your program. Your answer will perhaps be, “they do not belong to this dispensation.” Those that you rule out by your dispensational principle, mean your dispensational answer to some undispensational religious practices. But are you absolutely positive that what you believe, endorse or practice is both Scriptural and dispensationally correct?
When that religious woman in California recently cut off her hand because it offended her, was she not obeying the words of the Lord?
GOD’S ONE CHURCH
Every saved individual, during the present Divine economy, whether Jew or Gentile, is a member of the Body of Christ, “the Church of God which He hath purchased with His own blood.” Acts 20:28. In this age of grace God requires no religious ceremonies for salvation or for membership in the one true Bible Church. But God does demand faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and in His shed blood for salvation. And God’s Book declares, “by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8 and 9. There are multitudes of religious people, members of some religious organization, who are not saved. Moreover there are perhaps as many trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ and in His redemptive work, who, like the foolish Galatians, are trying to make the finished work of Christ more efficacious, by mixing in some religious doings. To them the Apostle Paul has written
“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.” “Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” Galatians 2:21, Galatians 1:6 and 7, Galatians 5:1.
We shall not consider the religious programs of the new metaphysical cults, which are propagating their Satanic vagaries, in the name of Christianity, in fulfillment of II Corinthians 11:13 to 15, II Peter 2:1 and 2, and I Timothy 4:1 and 7. With their Christianized pagan philosophies they have here and there mixed in a verse of Scripture which they have invariably corrupted. Every one of them deny all of the fundamentals of true Bible Christianity. But they all have much to say about Jesus and His program of physical healing, without the use of drugs or other material remedies. Concerning them God’s warning is, “bringing in the damnable heresies denying the Lord that bought them”; “seducing spirits”; “doctrines of demons”; “gone in the way of Cain.” II Peter 2:1, I Timothy 4:1, Jude 11.
But now let us consider the “church” creeds and religious programs of religious organizations whose members claim to believe the Bible and who profess faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His precious shed blood.
more here https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/the-dispensational-answer-to-undispensational-religious-practices/
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Carol Swenson
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There are easier ways to say we should care for the poor and needy.
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scythewieldor
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WildB,
America is not a nation of believers. Believers are a nation. We are a kingdom. We are a holy nation.
quote:
Col 1:12-14 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
1 Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
WildB...that's the witness of 2 men who talked to Jesus face to face. Don't you trust the testimony of the disciples of Jesus?
Yes, we're a body. A kingdom is the body of it's king.
Cults require that most members live for the benefit of a few. (That's what makes a typical modern church a cult. Most members generate the income of a few vain talkers.) Equality is not the same as a cult. Jesus is the one who said to do unto others as you would have others do unto you. That means: - work with your hands, and,
- take care of the weak.
The first application of the teachings of Christ made sure that those who had needs were supplied.
quote:
Act 2:44-45 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 4:32-35 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
As Jesus said, there are always people who have a need. Loving those who have needs as we love ourselves, we can not hold back help from them. See James 2.
The needs of all in the church in Jerusalem were met even through the persecution that began with Stephen. It wasn't until there was a church in Antioch that the dearth of the time of Claudius (and, the need of the apostles at Jerusalem that would accompany it) was foreseen.
By the time the men of Antioch were made aware of the approaching dearth, the bible says that only the apostles remained in Jerusalem. Nevertheless, the teaching to take care of the needy was observed in Antioch.
It was, also, taught in Corinth (per 2 Cor 8&9).
quote:
2 Cor 9:5-10 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness. But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)
Remember that this gift was not for the support of Paul. He worked with his own hands to support himself and those who were with him. It was for the needy apostles in Jerusalem.
It's not communism as the atheists work communism. It's caring for the needy out of a circumcised heart that is able to feel the needs of others.
And, it is not feeding the people who won't work with their hands. You supplied the scripture for that, WildB.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by scythewieldor:
The New Testament tells us that we are a nation of believers.
We are the Body of Christ that lives in a Nation of Apostates.
Romans 12
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
2 Corinthians 1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by scythewieldor:
Whenever I read the Bible in English, I've got to wade through the contradictions and obscurantism of the various theological positions which sponsored interpretations in order to find the Truth.
Wow guess the Holy Spirit will have to find another job now that we have you lol!
Please stop your sillyness ...
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Carol Swenson
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WildB is right. There are cults that demand members give all they have and join a commune. That's what you are teaching scythewieldor.
21st century America is a great deal more complicated and expensive than 1st century life was. A very, very small group of believers might be able to help with each others bills and so on, but it wouldn't work with a large group outside of a commune. Even with a small group, unless everyone's electric bill, water bill, grocery bill, and every other bill, was exactly the same amount, it still wouldn't be "equality" in the way you mean it.
Instead, today everyone gives what they can afford, and it's distributed among those in need.
2 Corinthians 8:12-14 (NASB)
12 For if the readiness is present, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have. 13 For this is not for the ease of others and for your affliction, but by way of equality— 14 at this present time your abundance being a supply for their need, so that their abundance also may become a supply for your need, that there may be equality;
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by scythewieldor:
It was the opinion of the apostle Paul (a man who saw the Lord) that it was expedient for Christians to support their weak ones to the point of equalization.
Jesus taught equalization, too.
Hog wash! This opinion of yours is Communism! So now your a doctor of the soul too and can determine weakness?
Best read,
2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
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Carol Swenson
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Every local church is attended by members of that community who all have basically the same income level. And every church I know of makes a collection of food and clothing for the poor, as well as volunteering help for the elderly. No one is forced to attend, and no one is forced to give.
Ananias was judged for lying to the Holy Spirit, not for withholding.
People in general are not as stupid as you apparently think they are. There are a lot of cults that teach various heresies, but few are as extreme as what you describe. You seem to think that all churches are bad, all pastors are bad, and most Bibles are bad.
It would help us to understand your beliefs if we knew more about your personal situation.
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scythewieldor
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Peter told us that certain things would happen after his decease. Paul and Jude gave 2nd and 3rd witnesses.
quote:
2 Pet 2:1-3 And there did come also false prophets among the people, as also among you there shall be false teachers, who shall bring in besides destructive sects, and the Master who bought them denying, bringing to themselves quick destruction, and many shall follow out their destructive ways, because of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of, and in covetousness, with moulded words, of you they shall make merchandise, whose judgment of old is not idle, and their destruction doth not slumber.
This passage tells us that men would start religious perversions of Christianty, and, when they died, other men, for the sake of covetousness, would keep those perversions of Christianity going, on and on. They would reshape words convenient for making merchandise of men with pure minds.
That is exactly what has happened. The obscurantism of those false teachers is so pervasive that Peter took time to tell us how to stir up our pure minds into remembrance. quote:
2 Pet 3:1-4 This, now, beloved, a second letter to you I write, in both which I stir up your pure mind in reminding [you], to be mindful of the sayings said before by the holy prophets, and of the command of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour, this first knowing, that there shall come in the latter end of the days scoffers, according to their own desires going on, and saying, ‘Where is the promise of his presence? for since the fathers did fall asleep, all things so remain from the beginning of the creation;’
In other words, he knew that what would pass for Christianity would be stripped of the truth that men would be unable to close the mouths of mockers.
Whenever I read the Bible in English, I've got to wade through the contradictions and obscurantism of the various theological positions which sponsored interpretations in order to find the Truth.
I thank God for guys like Young who did some real translation. I thank God for Dr. Strong who did a lot to help me sort things out. I thank God for guys who put together Greek books so that I could learn the words used by the earliest men- men who were more interested in following God than they were in strengthening denominational positions and selling religion.
I thank God for the Holy Spirit who kept reminding me that it was for freedom that Christ set me free.
As Peter said, the ones who perverted Christianity sold their misguided clientele to people who would learn & tell their lies their way. That's ordination as we have it, today.
Simple question: Who teaches what it means to do unto others as you would have them do unto you?
Who teaches that you should pay others the same wages you want to be paid? Who teaches that, if you want others to work for minimum wage, you should work for minimum wage? Who teaches that, if you want others to work with their own hands to supply you, you should work with your own hands to supply others?
Simple answer: I haven't found one. Why? You can't get kids to pay for a school that teaches them that, after they've gone into debt for years of schooling, they, still, need to work with their hands at low-paying jobs to pay off their school.
Another question: Who teaches to lend hoping for nothing again- neither principal nor interest. Jesus taught that. He told His disciples to teach the nations to observe that, as well; but, no denomination ordains kids expecting them to teach those things.
Why? The very covetousness that Peter told us would shape religion is the reason. Churches make their money off tithes and offerings. That's the first interest of denominations. If money doesn't come in, the doors don't stay open. Since money is god#1 to them, they have to make sure rich people want to come thru their doors. They have to make rich people think God is OK with inequality.
quote:
2 Co 8:10-15 and an opinion in this do I give: for this to you [is] expedient, who not only to do, but also to will, did begin before — a year ago, 11and now also finish doing [it], that even as [there is] the readiness of the will, so also the finishing, out of that which ye have, for if the willing mind is present, according to that which any one may have it is well-accepted, not according to that which he hath not; for not that for others release, and ye pressured, [do I speak,] but by equality, at the present time your abundance — for their want, that also their abundance may be for your want, that there may be equality, according as it hath been written, ‘He who [did gather] much, had nothing over; and he who [did gather] little, had no lack.’
It was the opinion of the apostle Paul (a man who saw the Lord) that it was expedient for Christians to support their weak ones to the point of equalization.
Jesus taught equalization, too. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
I could load this post with more support for this teaching from the New Testament, but I need to get to something else.
The New Testament tells us that we are a nation of believers organized into local communities overseen by self-supporting, inter-submitted elders who manage necessary ministries through church-supported deacons. In this way, every member of every family is represented in the oversight. This arrangement keeps things from becoming cult-y places of bondage run by a few for the benefit of a few.
Where will you find a community so run? I haven't seen any.
Remember: This is exactly what Peter said would happen. When I say "Exactly", I am not using hyperbole. Let it sink in. A man who spent 3 years with the Lord told us this would happen.
And, he told us how to fix it.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by scythewieldor:
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by scythewieldor:
Since David built this house, he can be whatever he wants to be in it. Peter said as much to Ananias.
does not = "David is Ruling elder of this BBS, the Lord led him to Start."
Psalms 127:1 Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it:
I take a strong offence to this statement of yours, it shows your true nature sir...
WildB,
Please stop reading everything thru a hate filter. If it's true for Ananias, it's true for anyone.
Did you ever see this commandment?
quote:
1 Pe 2:17-20 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
Honor all men just means honor all men. If a guy sets up a house, you honor him. If he doesn't, you honor him. If he's a believer, you honor him. If he's not, you honor him.
Honor means to give a guy room to manage his own stuff as he sees fit. It's about liberty.
God put His own image on men. He lets men exercise dominion over their realms. If God allows that, I must, as well.
Careful you don't bring the judgement of Ananias upon yourself. Your veiled dishonoring is clear to all.
Again
Psalms 127:1 Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it:
James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
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scythewieldor
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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by scythewieldor:
Since David built this house, he can be whatever he wants to be in it. Peter said as much to Ananias.
does not = "David is Ruling elder of this BBS, the Lord led him to Start."
Psalms 127:1 Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it:
I take a strong offence to this statement of yours, it shows your true nature sir...
WildB,
Please stop reading everything thru a hate filter. If it's true for Ananias, it's true for anyone.
Did you ever see this commandment?
quote:
1 Pe 2:17-20 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
Honor all men just means honor all men. If a guy sets up a house, you honor him. If he doesn't, you honor him. If he's a believer, you honor him. If he's not, you honor him.
Honor means to give a guy room to manage his own stuff as he sees fit. It's about liberty.
God put His own image on men. He lets men exercise dominion over their realms. If God allows that, I must, as well.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by scythewieldor:
Since David built this house, he can be whatever he wants to be in it. Peter said as much to Ananias.
does not = "David is Ruling elder of this BBS, the Lord led him to Start."
Psalms 127:1 Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it:
I take a strong offence to this statement of yours, it shows your true nature sir...
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Carol Swenson
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posted
So those who have been ordained as Pastors after they have been through seminary school, and all the Bible scholars who have written lexicons and dictionaries and commentaries and such, all these educated people are inferior to you? Whenever you read the Bible in English then you are benefiting from the work of the scholars who translated it.
Education does not mean lack of faith or foolish pride. It sounds to me like you are the one who is proud, and resentful. You sound like a self-appointed "elder" who is not recognized as the elder or bishop or overseer of any church. You are not recognized as an elder on this Christian BBS, although you are welcomed as a brother.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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scythewieldor
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WildB,
The college-indoctrinated rebels who get a store-bought religion become the people puffed up by knowledge.
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1 Co 8:1-2 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
Once a person has paid his money (or, gone into debt) for knowledge (the knowledge that men honor), it will take some time before he figures out that he has bought something offered to idols. Chances are he never will.
I have seen it happen, though.
Just knowing that Jesus commanded His teachings be distributed freely casts doubt on any one who wants to distribute teachings for money.
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Mat 10:6-8 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
And this is how Paul followed Jesus.
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2 Co 11:7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
To be sure, Paul had support from other churches for, at least, one of the two periods he spent in Corinth before writing 2 Corinthians; he was a deacon, after all. But, over and over, Paul worked with his own hands in order to provide an example to all that they should do likewise.
Since David built this house, he can be whatever he wants to be in it. Peter said as much to Ananias. And, I will submit to David in his house. (I, certainly, appreciate this form of hospitality.) That's just good Christianity.
God has not given me a spirit of timidity, but of power, love, and of a sound mind. That has come as I have exercised my senses around obedience to the Word. I have experiential knowledge of the things of God - that they are much better than the speculations of those who are devoid of the spirit.
"Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers." I've been taught by the best: Jesus and the disciples He sent out.
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Carol Swenson
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It's good to believe scripture and to live by the Word. But it is not at all good to be self-righteous and consider ourselves to be superior to other Christians. We certainly don't call another Christian an enemy of Christ if he doesn't agree with us.
Romans 14:10
But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
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WildB
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scythewieldor You skipped answering this one?
"Perhaps you can tell the baseball fans about some of the college-indoctrinated kids that you have shepherded in your living room? So we can learn a few things?"
AND for your info,
David is Ruling elder of this BBS, the Lord led him to Start. The rest of us are elder by age and wrinkle, not title. The Spirit of God controls the flow and Davids BBS rules regulate. Should read them.
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Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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scythewieldor
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Dear WildB,
The passage from Titus and 1 Tim. about elder/bishops is something I have leaned on for decades. I said that I have obeyed the commandment of the Lord in faith that He made His will known thru Jesus and the apostles.
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Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Only because I know that I qualify for being an elder according to the will of God made known by Apostle Paul can I obey the commandment to take the oversight.
I have been married to my one and only. We've been married 36 years. I have 3 children none of which are accused of riotous living. I show hospitality. I am vigilant, sober, not greedy for filthy lucre, patient, apt to teach, not self-willed,and not given to wine.
I am glad to know that you recognize those passages as the measure of an elder. I hope you qualify, as well. The job that we elders have to take on is enormous. Too much room has been given to the rebellious little church changers who bought themselves a degree from some seminary.
We who have followed God in order to know Him have a lot of work to do.
Does David qualify as an elder? Ruling elder? Neither Jesus nor the apostles defined anything called a ruling elder. Like you said, there can be only one Chief Shepard. In fact, Peter and Paul tell the elders to submit to each other.
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Ac 20:28-35 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.
Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
1 Pet 5:1-5 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
According to Peter and Paul, elders ought to work with their own hands rather than serve for the sake of filthy lucre. Elders do most of their teaching by example. (They are given to hospitality so they can be an example.)Elders generate their own incomes so that they can be hospitable and support the weak. As revenue generators who want the weak supported, elders recognize a need for deacons who, living at the expense of the church, can make sure that support is managed well. Such was the case when the apostles called upon the congregation to nominate candidates for the service of the widows tables.
Deacons must be proven before they are promoted.
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1 Tim 3:8-10 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
2 Co 8:22 And we have sent with them our brother, whom we have oftentimes proved diligent in many things, but now much more diligent, upon the great confidence which I have in you.
Elders oversee deacons. Elders can be made deacons in submission to the rest of the elders. The deacon offices are apostle, pastor/teacher, evangelist, prophet.
(Sorry. No apostles slots are open. We don't need any more. If you don't submit to the apostles in the New Testament, you don't belong in the house of God, anyway.)
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Ep 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
When Paul writes "for the work of the ministry", that 'ministry" is the rendering of the Greek word 'diakonias'/deacon office.
The vigilance of an elder is exercised as he watches for those (elders like himself and deacons)who want to make a living teaching things other than the things Christ commanded the disciples to observe.
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Mat 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Ac 16:4-5 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem. And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.
I would like to see a network of "oversight boards" of elders set up in every zip code (or, something like that).
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by scythewieldor:
WildB,
I am an elder where ever I go. How do I know? I obeyed the commandment of the Lord in faith that He made His will known through Jesus and the apostles.
The apostles are in heaven, now.
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2 Co 5:4-9 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
If Paul and those with him had to labor to be accepted in the Lord, do you think the rest of us do not?
You asked what could we do? I did not give you an answer out of my own intellect. I gave you the Word of God which, as John tells us, is God. If you don't believe in God as much as you believe in Einstein and Eddington, stop pretending to be a Christian. The supreme metaphysical law of the entire universe is God never changes.
It's all planned. The immutable God knows how things started, and, He knows how things must proceed, and, He knows how things must end. However, we live and move and have our being in that same immutable God.
His Word is just as immutable as He is. Not a single part of it can ever fail. Therefore, we can have the same effect on this world as Jesus did when we receive the in-grafted Word of God with no doubting.
The problem is that false teachers entered in who despised the authority of Jesus and His apostles. They wanted to make people observe religions of their own making so that they could lord it over the flock of God.
They had to make men forget the things taught by Jesus and His apostles; so, they started tickling ears with things like theories about angels, and, theologies about grace (which they, in their fleshly minds, re-define), and interpretations of prophecies.
If you don't want to stir up your pure mind by remembering "the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of (them) the apostles of the Lord and Saviour", you are, probably, on the side of those who despise Christ's authority.
The verse you put forth does not qualify you as a elder here. Sorry... Christ is the Shepherd and Bishop of our souls here. David is the ruling elder of this BBS. He should be counted worthy of double honour, especially because he has labored in the word and the Grace doctrine from the beginning.
Perhaps you can tell the baseball fans about some of the college-indoctrinated kids that you have shepherded in your living room? So we can learn a few things?
There is a office of Bishop that Paul set forth in the Church.
1 Timothy 3
1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Titus 1
7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
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Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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scythewieldor
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WildB,
I am an elder where ever I go. How do I know? I obeyed the commandment of the Lord in faith that He made His will known through Jesus and the apostles.
The apostles are in heaven, now.
quote:
2 Co 5:4-9 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
If Paul and those with him had to labor to be accepted in the Lord, do you think the rest of us do not?
You asked what could we do? I did not give you an answer out of my own intellect. I gave you the Word of God which, as John tells us, is God. If you don't believe in God as much as you believe in Einstein and Eddington, stop pretending to be a Christian. The supreme metaphysical law of the entire universe is God never changes.
It's all planned. The immutable God knows how things started, and, He knows how things must proceed, and, He knows how things must end. However, we live and move and have our being in that same immutable God.
His Word is just as immutable as He is. Not a single part of it can ever fail. Therefore, we can have the same effect on this world as Jesus did when we receive the in-grafted Word of God with no doubting.
The problem is that false teachers entered in who despised the authority of Jesus and His apostles. They wanted to make people observe religions of their own making so that they could lord it over the flock of God.
They had to make men forget the things taught by Jesus and His apostles; so, they started tickling ears with things like theories about angels, and, theologies about grace (which they, in their fleshly minds, re-define), and interpretations of prophecies.
If you don't want to stir up your pure mind by remembering "the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of (them) the apostles of the Lord and Saviour", you are, probably, on the side of those who despise Christ's authority.
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WildB
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scythewieldor where are you a elder at? and all His apostles are dead. Do you not know the 2nd law of thermodynamics?
The Second Law of Thermodynamics, which is accepted as one of the basic laws of physics, holds that under normal conditions all systems left on their own tend to become disordered, dispersed, and corrupted in direct relation to the amount of time that passes. Everything, whether living or not, wears out, deteriorates, decays, disintegrates, and is destroyed. This is the absolute end that all beings will face one way or another, and according to the law, the process cannot be avoided.
This is something that all of us have observed. For example if you take a car to a desert and leave it there, you would hardly expect to find it in a better condition when you came back years later. On the contrary, you would see that its tires had gone flat, its windows had been broken, its chassis had rusted, and its engine had stopped working. The same inevitable process holds true for living things.
The second law of thermodynamics is the means by which this natural process is defined, with physical equations and calculations.
This famous law of physics is also known as the "law of entropy." In physics, entropy is the measure of the disorder of a system. A system's entropy increases as it moves from an ordered, organized, and planned state towards a more disordered, dispersed, and unplanned one. The more disorder there is in a system, the higher its entropy is. The law of entropy holds that the entire universe is unavoidably proceeding towards a more disordered, unplanned, and disorganized state.
The truth of the second law of thermodynamics, or the law of entropy, has been experimentally and theoretically established. All foremost scientists agree that the law of entropy will remain the principle paradigm for the foreseeable future. Albert Einstein, the greatest scientist of our age, described it as the "premier law of all of science." Sir Arthur Eddington also referred to it as the "supreme metaphysical law of the entire universe
Evolutionary theory ignores this fundamental law of physics. The mechanism offered by evolution totally contradicts the second law. The theory of evolution says that disordered, dispersed, and lifeless atoms and molecules spontaneously came together over time, in a particular order, to form extremely complex molecules such as proteins, DNA, and RNA, whereupon millions of different living species with even more complex structures gradually emerged. According to the theory of evolution, this supposed process-which yields a more planned, more ordered, more complex and more organized structure at each stage-was formed all by itself under natural conditions. The law of entropy makes it clear that this so-called natural process utterly contradicts the laws of physics.
The Church will wax worse. Its the Body of Christ that the Spirit works with by Grace not rule of law today.
http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/thermodynamics.html
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scythewieldor
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God has appointed those among us who are elders to take the oversight of His flock. Since we have avoided taking responsibility in the house of God for so long, we have churches being led by people who despise the authority of the Lord and His apostles.
Men who are like the Diotrophes (to whom John referred) despise the letters written to us by the apostles. They like owning their church. They do not receive the brethren of the Lord's apostles. They forbid their church attendees to receive the brothers of the Lord's apostles. And those who do receive the brothers of the Lord's apostles, they kick out of the church.
"Who are the brothers of the Lord's apostles?" you might ask.
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Mark 3:33-35 And he answered them, saying, 'Who is my mother, or my brethren?' And having looked round in a circle to those sitting about him, he saith, ‘Lo, my mother and my brethren! for whoever may do the will of God, he is my brother, and my sister, and mother.’
The will of God is the Truth into which the Spirit led the apostles (just as Jesus said He would). The apostles of the Lord and Savior did the will of God. Part of that will was writing that truth down so that all gentiles and Jews to come could learn the way of God more perfectly -and, submit to Him.
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scythewieldor
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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Pervertians to divest as protest against Israel
The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) on Friday became the most prominent religious group in the United States to endorse divestment as a protest against Israeli policies toward Palestinians, voting to sell church stock in three companies whose products Israel uses in the occupied territories?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/presbyterians-divest-protest-against-israel-002617938.html
I am not a Presbyterian. I am not for homosexual behavior. I am not for ***** -mongering. I am not for those who love money. I'm not for treating the Jews meanly.
I am for God receiving glory from a people who have learned the way of God more perfectly.
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scythewieldor
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Another part of Christianity is like the church to which John, the Elder, wrote when he was trying to help dear Gaius.
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3John 9-12 I did write to the assembly, but he who is loving the first place among them — Diotrephes — doth not receive us; because of this, if I may come, I will cause him to remember his works that he doth, with evil words prating against us; and not content with these, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and those intending he doth forbid, and out of the assembly he doth cast. Beloved, be not thou following that which is evil, but that which is good; he who is doing good, of God he is, and he who is doing evil hath not seen God; to Demetrius testimony hath been given by all, and by the truth itself, and we also — we do testify, and ye have known that our testimony is true.
The problem must be taken care of by elders who know the way of God more perfectly. They must (as I pointed out in the 2nd epistle of Peter) take the oversight of the flock. That is a commandment of an apostle of the Lord and Savior.
Those who are elders, indeed, can not let the young, college-indoctrinated kids despise their age.
We must start making sanctuaries for the sheep in our own living rooms where we can teach them the commandments of the New Covenant Commonwealth of the Israel of God.
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WildB
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Pervertians to divest as protest against Israel
The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) on Friday became the most prominent religious group in the United States to endorse divestment as a protest against Israeli policies toward Palestinians, voting to sell church stock in three companies whose products Israel uses in the occupied territories?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/presbyterians-divest-protest-against-israel-002617938.html
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Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by scythewieldor:
At this point, part of Christianity is like the Ephesian church - being led by honest men who do not know the way of God well. Consider Apollos speaking boldly in the synagogue.
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Act 18:24-28 And a certain Jew, Apollos by name, an Alexandrian by birth, a man of eloquence, being mighty in the Writings, came to Ephesus, this one was instructed in the way of the Lord, and being fervent in the Spirit, was speaking and teaching exactly the things about the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John; this one also began to speak boldly in the synagogue, and Aquilas and Priscilla having heard of him, took him to [them], and did more exactly expound to him the way of God, and he being minded to go through into Achaia, the brethren wrote to the disciples, having exhorted them to receive him, who having come, did help them much who have believed through the grace, for powerfully the Jews he was refuting publicly, shewing through the Writings Jesus to be the Christ.
Honest men don't lay with other men and call it good nor do they pisseth upon the peace of Israel.
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scythewieldor
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At this point, part of Christianity is like the Ephesian church - being led by honest men who do not know the way of God well. Consider Apollos speaking boldly in the synagogue.
quote:
Act 18:24-28 And a certain Jew, Apollos by name, an Alexandrian by birth, a man of eloquence, being mighty in the Writings, came to Ephesus, this one was instructed in the way of the Lord, and being fervent in the Spirit, was speaking and teaching exactly the things about the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John; this one also began to speak boldly in the synagogue, and Aquilas and Priscilla having heard of him, took him to [them], and did more exactly expound to him the way of God, and he being minded to go through into Achaia, the brethren wrote to the disciples, having exhorted them to receive him, who having come, did help them much who have believed through the grace, for powerfully the Jews he was refuting publicly, shewing through the Writings Jesus to be the Christ.
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Betty Louise
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I think it is often done under the ideal of reaching the un-Churched. While we need to reach the un-Churched, acceptance of sin, is not the way to do so. This will not be the end. There is already a small group that believe just as "gays are born gay" so are those who are "born being attracted sexually to children". It is just a matter of time before this movement grows to the point it is accepted. It has happened in the past when it was acceptable to sale children as sex toys.
As far as Israel and Churches turning their backs on her, this is open rebellion against God. But then so is acceptance of the gay lifestyle, when God makes it clear that He is against it.
I have often felt that there are two reasons that children will be taken up in the rapture.
1. That they are not yet at the age of accountability.
2. To keep them from being abused.
Young men and women who look young for their age will be abused for money of forced into being sex toys. It is bad now, but when the Children of God are gone and the Holy Spirit, no longer restrains evil, this world will be a cess pool of filth. The leaders of Churches that have rejected the truth of God will be forced to accept every filth there is.
I prayed that God will not allow women to have babies during the rapture. Yes, I know it doesn't say in the Bible. We are living in the age when many Churches have grown into a mentality of acceptance of sin, in order to grow in numbers. They no longer use God's Word as a road map for the truth.
Betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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WildB
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Presbyterian assembly: Gay marriage is Christian
The top legislative body of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) has voted by large margins to recognize same-sex marriage as Christian in the church constitution, adding language that marriage can be the union of "two people," not just "a man and a woman."
http://news.yahoo.com/presbyterian-assembly-gay-marriage-christian-212658672.html
ADL condemns US Presbyterian Church vote to join Israel divestment movement
The US Presbyterian Church narrowly voted on Friday to divest from specific companies that do business with Israel in the West Bank. At the church's general convention...the vote came 310 to 303 to join the divestment campaign against Israel. The Presbyterian Church made the decision with the vote to divest from Caterpillar, Hewlett Packard and Motorola Solutions due to...business dealings with settlements in the West Bank.
http://www.jpost.com/International/ADL-condemns-US-Presbyterian-Church-vote-to-join-Israel-divestment-movement-360076
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scythewieldor
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2 Pet 1:12-15 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me. Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.
2 Pet 2:1-3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
Both of the epistles Peter wrote were for the purpose of giving the believers a reminder that there was a Truth that was known to the apostles. In other words, he knew that false teachers who would come after him would lead the church into unfruitful things, and, he wanted the last days believers to become established in the same faith that the apostles had.
His solution was to cause the latter day believers to stir up their minds by filling them with the "words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour".
The commandments of the apostles have a particularly good effect on believers.
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Act 16:4-5 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem. And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.
The gentile believers who practiced the commandments of the apostles and the elders at Jerusalem saw their churches established in the faith, and, their numbers increase. However, false teachers refuse to teach the commandments of the apostles because they, like Diotrophes, like to have pre-eminence in the church. They hate authority.
To keep from having to acknowledge the authority of Jesus Christ and His apostles, false teachers like to keep people distracted with theologies and interpretations of prophecies. We who are elders, indeed, must take the oversight of the flock, teaching them to observe commandments of the apostles by becoming good examples, submitting to each other, and, not waiting to be 'drafted' or hired.
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1 Pet 1-4 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
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WildB
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http://thruthebible.ca/notes/Jude.pdf
JUDE. J. Vernon McGee ... when the Spirit detoured him to write concerning the apostasy. ... church (Acts 20:29-31; 2 Timothy 3:6; 2 Peter 2:1; Galatians 2:4).
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WildB
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The Amazing, Alarming, and Awful Apostasy
Dr. J. Vernon McGee
Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified
by God, the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: mercy unto you, and
peace, and love be multiplied. Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you
of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you
that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the
saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old
ordained [written of beforehand] to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the
grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord
Jesus Christ. (Jude 1-4)
We are seeing in our day an amazing, an alarming, and an awful apostasy of the church.
There has always been a question among students of prophecy about just how far the organized
church would go into the apostasy before the Rapture occurs. That is, at what particular point in
the apostasy would the true church, made up of those who were believers in the Lord Jesus
Christ, be taken out of the world?
Now some of us did not believe that we would see the organized churches plunge this far
into a departure from the faith before the true church - that is, the body of believers who actually
trust in Christ as Savior, recognizing they are sinners and their only hope is in Him -
would be taken out of the world. When Dr. William Culbertson was here in Los Angeles speaking
at the Prophetic Conference, he said to some of us privately, "The things I am seeing today I
thought would not take place until the Tribulation!" And I'm sure that this is the viewpoint of
many students of prophecy today.
In this sense, therefore, it's an amazing apostasy that has come upon us. Suddenly the
church has departed from the faith, and many of us thought that by the time this happened the
true church would be gone.
In view of some of the activities of the contemporary church it's an alarming apostasy.
Because of the present conditions in the church (and in this message I will merely touch the
fringe of them), it is an awful apostasy. For this reason I think we can accurately say that we are
right now in an amazing and alarming and awful apostasy in the church.
Now when I say apostasy, I mean it in the Bible sense, a departure from the faith. The word
in the original Greek is aphistemi. Histemi means "to stand" and apo means "away from." Let
me illustrate it this way: It's my custom to stand at the pulpit to preach, but if I stood over by
the piano, it would be aphistemi, standing away from the pulpit. And today there is an aphistemi
in the church, which means that men who at one time professed to believe the great basic truths
of the Christian faith have now denied those things. They have departed from them.
For that reason it might be well to take a second look at what the Scripture states about the
apostasy in ...
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What Can Believers Do in Days of Apostasy?
Dr. J. Vernon McGee
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your
most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep
yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy
of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of
some have compassion, making a difference; and
others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,
hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Now
unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and
to present you faultless before the presence of his glory
with exceeding joy, to the only wise God, our Savior,
be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both
now and ever. Amen. (Jude 20 - 25)
What Can Believers Do in
Days of Apostasy?
The Apostasy Has Arrived
The church is in a very sad state at the present hour. The thing
that is alarming about it is that the church is satisfied with it.
Some preachers are greatly exercised over it, but they are the
minority. I find very few people who are disturbed today. Most
of the church has settled down into this deplorable state we're in,
have accepted it, and feel that nothing can be done about it.
As we approach this subject of apostasy, I want to define our
terms so that we do not get lost in the labyrinth of bewildering
theological nomenclature. We need to understand exactly what
the apostasy is before we can know what to do about it.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly that, in the latter times,
some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing
spirits, and doctrines of demons. (1 Timothy 4:1)
The verse begins with the little Greek word de, which is translated
here as "now" but is better translated as "but" since it indicates
a contrast with the early doctrinal creed given in the verse
that immediately precedes it:
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen
of angels, preached unto the nations, believed on in the
world, received up into glory. (1 Timothy 3:16)
"Latter times" in 1 Timothy 4:1 is a technical expression. In the
Bible you will find the terms "last days," "last times," or "the
time of the end." The Bible doesn't use the expression "the end of
time" because the world doesn't come to an end. (Although "the
end of the world" appears in our Authorized Version, it is more
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the sower. Referring to the seed that fell on the rock, He said:
They on the rock are they who, when they hear, receive the
word with joy; and these have no root, who for a while
believe, and in time of testing fall away. (Luke 8:13)
"Fall away" is the Greek aphistemi - they apostatize. They professed
to believe, then they moved away from it. They no longer
believe; they have departed from the faith. Apostasy would be
impossible among unevangelized tribes who have never heard the
gospel. An apostate is one who has not only heard the gospel, but
who has professed to believe it, and then departs from it. That ...
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