|
Author
|
Topic: ECCLESIASTES 6: 10
|
noble
Advanced Member
Member # 11022
|
posted
Carol Great thoughts, and great anecdote. As I study Solomon and his life I note his chagrin as he nears the end that with palace intrigue and the familial stress as well as the many years of corporate stress, decision making, 100 wives [that'll take it's toll] He reaches a point of extreme exhaustion both physically and mentally.
Now again, these are my summations, but Solomon could have reached his breaking point knowing the issues with Rehoboam wondering if this 'kid' is ready to take the throne which he had nothing to do with building of, and Solomon knowing there were problems politically with a former general named Jereboam, who was in exile at the moment, all brewing as his years are ending. I think he feels, as we read the whole dissertation of Ecclesiastes, "Why did I strive to do all this when it all goes to someone else, and I will have no more say" It was all a chasing after the wind.
Posts: 81 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2013
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by KnowHim:
Frustration is better than laughter,
because a sad face is good for the heart.
~ Ecclesiastes 7:3 NIV
Well I have come to realize that when reading the bible, the meaning seems to stand out different ways at different times in my life. As for me, this time in my life I see my heart must be in good shape as I am very frustrated.
Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?” For it is not wise to ask such questions.
~ Ecclesiastes 7:3 NIV
Exactly what I have been dwelling on most of the day. Very strange you should ask our opinion on this chapter in the bible today. As it has really brought it to my attention what I have been thinking about and now I know I am not the only one that has had such thoughts.
.
Ditto...
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
|
posted
Ecclesiastes 7:4 (NASB)
The mind of the wise is in the house of mourning, While the mind of fools is in the house of pleasure.
I retired this year at the age of 63. I retired early, even though it meant financial losses for me, because my boss was doing evil and I wanted no part of it. The Lord in His kindness has given me all I need. It was unexpected, and I am astonished, but extremely grateful to Him. We must simply abide, and do right, and trust in Him. He is indeed a loving Father to His children.
Solomon lived a full life and acquired a wealth of wisdom, but he came to understand that all things people do, and all they have, and all that people learn, are all meaningless without faith in God.
7:1-2 HUMANITY, Attitudes to Death—
Without hope of life after death, people can live only to build a personal reputation. Reflection on life's sad experiences and brief duration lead to maturity, whereas constant partying brings no improvement. The New Testament resurrection message brings deeper meaning to life and death.
7:11-12 HUMANITY, Intellectual Nature—
Genuine wisdom is both life-giving and a refuge in times of trouble.
7:13-14 GOD, Sovereignty—
God's full control of everything means we must expect both good and bad times. We cannot predict when one or the other will come. We must trust God.
7:13-14 CREATION, Evil—
The human perspective sees crooked places and bad times in life. Human life is not a predictable path which an individual controls. It is a path to be walked in faith, knowing that God controls its destiny. Bad times are part of a life in which God has allowed human freedom and in which moral laws operate.
7:14 EVIL AND SUFFERING, Divine Order—
Ultimately the good and bad experiences of life come from God. We need to learn to enjoy the good times in happiness but not expect all days to be good. We must enjoy today and be prepared to accept and deal with what comes tomorrow.
7:14 REVELATION, Author of Hope—
Mortals cannot see all of life at once. We must face all of life, the good and the bad. The bad does not prove a lack of revelation. It opens the door to faith for humans with our mortal limits. Faith knows God as the Author and Revealer of hope. Without faith meaninglessness is the ultimate description of life.
7:15-18 EVIL AND SUFFERING, Deserved—
Sometimes the wicked succeed and the righteous do not. This is no reason to despair. It is not a call to forget righteousness and be totally wicked. It is not a demand to become a moral legalist, proud of my righteousness and critical of everyone else's life. It tells us to seek God's will and follow His wise path through life.
7:15-16 CHRISTIAN ETHICS, Justice—
The cynic's reaction to wickedness is not uncommon. His question is, "How long shall evil prevail?" A helpful response is, "What is your time line of perspective?" We must remember God's timetable is longer, but His sovereignty is absolute.
7:20 SIN, Universal Nature—
Long experience in many areas of life led to this proverbial teaching. No matter how wise or powerful a person becomes in the world's eyes, that person cannot truthfully claim to be righteous or sinless.
7:23-25 HUMANITY, Intellectual Nature—
The first step to attain wisdom is to recognize the utter folly of doing wrong.
(Disciple's Study Bible.)
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
|
posted
Frustration is better than laughter,
because a sad face is good for the heart.
~ Ecclesiastes 7:3 NIV
Well I have come to realize that when reading the bible, the meaning seems to stand out different ways at different times in my life. As for me, this time in my life I see my heart must be in good shape as I am very frustrated.
Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?” For it is not wise to ask such questions.
~ Ecclesiastes 7:3 NIV
Exactly what I have been dwelling on most of the day. Very strange you should ask our opinion on this chapter in the bible today. As it has really brought it to my attention what I have been thinking about and now I know I am not the only one that has had such thoughts.
Ecclesiastes 7: (KJV)
15 All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his wickedness.
16 Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself ?
17 Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time?
18 It is good that thou shouldest take hold of this; yea, also from this withdraw not thine hand: for he that feareth God shall come forth of them all.
19 Wisdom strengtheneth the wise more than ten mighty men which are in the city.
20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Well actually I told someone yesterday I was thinking about things way too much. Like not being able to find a job, how things seemed easer, better years ago when I was younger. All that thinking did was give me a headache.
Wisdom I have extracted from this chapter. "... for he that feareth God shall come forth of them all." ~ Ecclesiastes 7:18
So I shall not worry as I fear the Lord and whatever happens, good or bad is OK.
This may not help you with your teaching next week, but it has helped me today.
Thank you,
David
http://www.facebook.com/aprodigal
.
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
|
noble
Advanced Member
Member # 11022
|
posted
I am going to be teaching next week on Ecclesiastes 7 and 8, and I would like to hear YOUR thoughts, personal thoughts, I have the reference material, Henry, Gill, Clary, and others, but it's the personal ideates that intrigue me and teach me how people think.
Posts: 81 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2013
| IP: Logged |
|
|
noble
Advanced Member
Member # 11022
|
posted
Wiersby's works I have not read, I used to listen to him years ago on radio.
This particular class I am now teaching is for senior citizens. We originally started with the study through the Book of John. I started this for older seniors looking to strengthen their Faith as they transition to a new Beginning. As I am now a real senior [ age 72] and as I have already seen my mortality on a couple of occasions [ 5 heart attacks] I have this prodding from the Holy Spirit to reintroduce seniors to the Gospel message especially those who dwelt on the fringes.
I write and research my own texts, and write down each lesson. This is done to be simple yet involved studies. When we finished John we went on into Acts to study the growth of Christianity, and from there they wanted something different so we got into a unique study on the Parables of Jesus. Now they wanted something again different so we went into Ecclesiastes. I didn't realize I could be such a prolific writer. I do teach a Sunday School from time to time and I use the same approach, right now I am finished and My Pastor was going to start a new series.
Last Sunday I went back to my home Church having been called to take the Service as that Pastor with a small group went to Israel. We had one very unique occurance at this service. One of the Churches Elders was reassigned back to Afghanistan and he participated in the service via Skype. First for me and that went extremely well. First for me. He read the Morning Scripture and gave the offertory Prayer. Boy, technology!!
Anyway, I will be doing Ecclesiastes 7 & 8 next week so I will be looking to the collective wisdom here.
Posts: 81 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2013
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
|
posted
Okay, then here is simple...
Ecclesiastes
Imagine an assembly of Jewish people as they listen to King Solomon discuss an important problem. Solomon is the "Preacher" or "Debater" in this assembly (1:1-2, 12; 7:27; 12:8-10), and the topic he is discussing is this:' "Is life really worth living?" Can you think of a more practical subject? And can you think of a better person to discuss it? For Solomon was the wisest of the kings, a man whose wisdom and wealth enabled him to experience a full life. In this brief section we can only touch the main points of this interesting book.
I. The Problem Declared (1-2)
"Is life really worth living?" This is the question that Solomon is debating. In 1:1-3 he states his first conclusion: life is not worth living because life is full of vanity (emptiness). Then he states his reasons:
A. Man is only a cog in a big wheel (1:4-11).
What is man compared to the vastness of the world? Everything in nature continues, century after century, but man is here for a brief space of time, then he dies. It all seems so meaningless. It is vanity. (Solomon uses this word "vanity" thirty-seven times in this book.) Since life is so short and man so insignificant, why bother to live at all?
B. Man cannot understand it all (1:12-18).
Solomon was the wisest of men, yet when he tried to understand the meaning of life, he was baffled. How many wise philosophers have tried to explain life, only to admit their utter ignorance. Is it reasonable to live when you cannot understand what life is all about?
C. Man's pleasures do not satisfy (2:1-11).
Solomon had plenty of money, pleasure, culture, and fame; yet he admitted that these things did not satisfy. Nor did they last. See what Jesus said about this in Luke 12:13-21.
D. Death ends all (2:12-23).
"One event" (death) happens both to the fool and to the wise, to the rich and to the poor. A person labors all his life, then dies and leaves the wealth for another person to enjoy. Is this fair?
These four arguments seem to lead to one grand conclusion: it is not worthwhile for a human being to live. But Solomon does not draw that conclusion. In 2:24-26 he tells us that we should accept the blessings of God now, enjoy them, and benefit from them. This agrees with Paul's counsel in 1 Tim. 6:17. But even this "living for today" does not completely satisfy, because human beings want to go beyond today. So, Solomon backtracks in the next eight chapters (he "returns and considers"; see 4:1, 7; 9:11) and studies his arguments in a deeper way.
II. The Problem Discussed (3-10)
A. God has a purpose in our lives (chap. 3).
God balances life: birth-death, sorrow-joy, meeting-parting. Why does He do this? For two reasons: (1) so that we will not think we can easily explain God's works (v. 11), and (2) so that we will learn to accept and enjoy what we have (vv. 12-13). God has set "eternity" in our hearts (v. 11, where "the world" should be translated "eternity"). This means that the things of the world can never really satisfy us. Therefore, we must find God's will for our lives and let Him "mix the ingredients" according to His purpose.
B. God gives riches according to His will (chaps. 4-6).
These chapters discuss the meaning of riches. Why is one person rich and another poor? Why is there injustice and inequality in the world? Because God has a plan for us, that we should not trust in uncertain riches but in the Lord! Do not live for riches, but use them according to God's will.
C. God's wisdom can guide us through life (chaps. 7-10).
The word wisdom (or wise) is used over thirty times in chapters 7-12. It is true that man's wisdom cannot fathom God's plan, but God can give us wisdom to know and do His will. Simply because we cannot understand everything does not mean we should give up in despair. Trust God and do what He tells you to do.
Did you notice that in each of these sections, Solomon emphasizes the enjoyment of God's blessings and the reality of death? Read 3:12-21, 5:18-6:7, and 8:15-9:4. Since every person is going to die, we should not bother to work or save money or serve God— is this right? "No!" says Solomon. And in chapters 11-12 he explains what he means.
III. The Problem Decided (11-12)
Solomon has already decided that man is not a "cog in the wheel," that there is nothing wrong with enjoying riches and pleasures to God's glory, and that our inability to understand all that God is doing is no hindrance to a happy life. In 11-12, Solomon sums up the whole matter with three practical admonitions:
A. Live by faith (11:1-6).
Circumstances are never going to be ideal in this life, but we must go ahead and obey God and trust Him for the results. If you wait for the right wind or the right day, you may miss your opportunity. You may seem to be a fool, like someone who casts bread on moving water, but God will see to it that it will come back to you.
B. Remember that life will end (11:7-12:7).
Is this a morbid suggestion? No. It is a Christian realism. One day you will die, so make the most of the life you now have. This is not the worldly attitude, "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die." Rather, it is the attitude of Paul in Phil. 1:20-21—to live is Christ, to die is gain. Note the three key words here directed especially to young people: rejoice (11:9), remove (11:10), and remember (12:1). Rejoice in God's blessings while you are young; remove from your life the sins that cause sorrow; and remember to serve God and fear Him in the days of your youth. In 12:1-7 we have a poetic description of old age and death. See if you can discover what these poetic terms refer to in the human body.
C. Fear God and obey Him (12:8-14).
Live as those who will one day face judgment. When the fire of God tests your works, will they all burn up? (1 Cor. 3:9-17) You will want to interpret Solomon's conclusions in the light of 1 Cor. 15, the great resurrection chapter of the Bible. If death really ends all, then life is not worth living, and everything truly is "vanity" and emptiness. But 1 Cor. 15 makes it clear that death is not the end. Because Christ arose from the dead, we shall also be raised. And the glory and reward we enjoy in eternity will depend on the lives we lived here on earth. Therefore, our labor is not "in vain in the Lord" (v. 58).
From the human point of view "under the sun," it seems as if life is futile and empty; all is vanity. But when life is lived in the power of God for the glory of God, then life becomes meaningful. A person may live and labor for fifty years, and then die. Does this mean his life was wasted? Of course not. His labor is not in vain in the Lord. He will receive the rewards of his labors when Christ returns. "He who does the will of God abides forever" (1 John 2:17). The unsaved person loses all at death; so does the carnal, worldly Christian who will be "saved, yet so as by fire" (1 Cor. 3:15). But the faithful Christian who rejoices in God's blessings today and uses his life to glorify Christ, will receive abundant rewards in the life to come.
In the light of the NT, Ecclesiastes is not a "pessimistic" book that denies the joys of life. Rather, it proves that though there are many mysteries in life we cannot explain, we can live so as to enjoy God's blessings and glorify God's name.
Wiersbe's Expository Outlines on the Old Testament.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
noble
Advanced Member
Member # 11022
|
posted
Appreciate the comments. I teach in a simplistic form. Most classes are not seminary level and trying to bring the Bible to the everyman at the same time not wanting the student to glaze over requires this easy but comprehensive approach.
Posts: 81 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2013
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by noble:
Thank you Drew, I did read through Gill but reading that can give a man ennui. There were a couple of more but all away from the context. Maybe that is the issue, that there should not be context.
MY thought was as I capture vs 9, 10, and 11 , God created and set in motion the events of the world and man can't change what God has effected, and that man just has to deal with the events as they happen and all would still be vanity or a chasing after the wind.
I think you have her nailed down as well as anybody. I often go to Gill because I find Henry pretty convoluted, and in some places out-dated with replacement theology.
We already have been named cause God is outside of time, and He already had the very hairs of our head numbered as He was laying the foundations of the earth, was speaking all of creation into existence.
Ephesians 1:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Excellent commentary Carol.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
ennui is the feeling of being bored by something tedious... ![[zzzzzz]](graemlins/20.gif)
A flightless bird for shur lol.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
|
posted
ennui is the feeling of being bored by something tedious...
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by noble:
Thank you Drew, I did read through Gill but reading that can give a man ennui.
Whats a ennui? One of them flightless birds?
![[cool_shades]](graemlins/cool_shades.gif)
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
|
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
|
posted
Questions Without Answers (Eccl. 6:10-12)
Thus far, Solomon has said that life is a dead-end street for two kinds of people: those who have riches but no enjoyment and those who labor but have no satisfaction. But he has tried to point out that true happiness is not the automatic result of making a good living; it is the blessed byproduct of making a good life. If you devote your life only to the pursuit of happiness, you will be miserable; however, if you devote your life to doing God's will, you will find happiness as well.
The British essayist and poet Joseph Addison (1672-1718) wrote, "The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, someone to love, and something to hope for." Addison probably didn't have Christianity in mind when he wrote that, but we have all three in Jesus Christ!
The Preacher was not finished. He knew that life was also a dead-end street for a third kind of person—the person who required answers to all of life's questions. Solomon was not condemning honest inquiry, because Ecclesiastes is the record of his own investigation into the meaning of life. Rather, Solomon was saying, "There are some questions about life that nobody can answer. But our ignorance must not be used as an excuse for skepticism or unbelief. Instead, our ignorance should encourage us to have faith in God. After all, we don't live on explanations; we live on promises."
It's been my experience in pastoral ministry that most explanations don't solve personal problems or make people feel better. When the physician explains an X-ray to a patient, his explanation doesn't bring healing, although it is certainly an essential step toward recovery. Suffering Job kept arguing with God and demanding an explanation for his plight. God never did answer his questions, because knowledge in the mind does not guarantee healing for the heart. That comes only when we put faith in the promises of God.
Without going into great detail, in verses 10-12 Solomon touches on five questions that people often ask.
Since "what's going to be is going to be," why bother to make decisions? Isn't it all predestined anyway? "Whatever exists has already been named, and what man is has been known" (v. 10a, NIV). To the Jewish mind, giving a name to something is the same as fixing its character and stating what the thing really is. During the time of creation, God named the things that He made, and nobody changed those designations. "Light" is "light" and not "darkness"; "day" is "day" and not "night." (See Isa. 5:20.)
Our name is "man"—Adam, "from the earth" (Gen. 2:7). Nobody can change that: we came from the earth and we will return to the earth (Gen. 3:19). "Man" by any other name would still be "man," made from the dust and eventually returning to the dust.
The fact that God has named everything does not mean that our world is a prison and we have no freedom to act. Certainly God can accomplish His divine purposes with or without our cooperation, but He invites us to work with Him. We cooperate with God as we accept the "names" He has given to things: sin is sin; obedience is obedience; truth is truth. If we alter these names, we move into a world of illusion and lose touch with reality. This is where many people are living today.
We are free to decide and choose our world, but we are not free to change the consequences. If we choose a world of illusion, we start living on substitutes, and there can be no satisfaction in a world of substitutes. "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent" (John 17:3, NASB). "And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding, in order that we might know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life" (1 John 5:20, NASB).
Why disagree with God? We can't oppose Him and win, can we? "...neither may he contend with him that is mightier than he" (v. 10b). The word translated "contend" also means "dispute." Solomon seems to say, "It just doesn't pay to argue with God or to fight God. This is the way life is, so just accept it and let God have His way. You can't win, and even if you do think you win, you ultimately lose."
But this is a negative view of the will of God. It gives the impression that God's will is a difficult and painful thing that should be avoided at all cost. Jesus said that God's will was the food that nourished and satisfied Him (John 4:32-34). It was meat, not medicine. The will of God comes from the heart of God and is an expression of the love of God. (See Ps. 33:11.) What God wills for us is best for us, because He knows far more about us than we do.
Why would anyone want to have his or her "own way" just for the privilege of exercising "freedom"? Insisting on having our own way isn't freedom at all; it's the worst kind of bondage. In fact, the most terrible judgment we could experience in this life would be to have God "give us up" and let us have our own way (Rom. 1:24, 26, 28).
God is free to act as He sees best. He is not a prisoner of His attributes, His creation, or His eternal purposes. You and I may not understand how God exercises His freedom, but it isn't necessary for us to know all. Our greatest freedom comes when we are lovingly lost in the will of God. Our Father in heaven doesn't feel threatened when we question Him, debate with Him, or even wrestle with Him, so long as we love His will and want to please Him.
What do we accomplish with all these words? Does talking about it solve the problem? (v. 11). In fact, there are times when it seems like the more we discuss a subject, the less we really understand it. Words don't always bring light; sometimes they produce clouds and even darkness. "The more the words, the less the meaning"(v. 11, NIV). But this is where we need the Word of God and the wisdom He alone can give us. If some discussions appear useless and produce "vanity," there are other times when conversation leads us closer to the truth and to the Lord.
Who knows what is good for us? (v. 12). God does! And wise is the person who takes time to listen to what God has to say. Yes, life may seem to be fleeting and illusive, like a soap bubble ("vain") or a shadow, but "he who does the will of God abides forever" (1 John 2:17, NKJV).
Does anybody know what's coming next? (v. 12b). In spite of what the astrologers, prophets, and fortune-tellers claim, nobody knows the future except God. It is futile to speculate. God gives us enough information to encourage us, but He does not cater to idle curiosity. One thing is sure: death is coming, and we had better make the best use of our present opportunities. That is one of the major themes in Ecclesiastes.
Solomon has discussed two of his arguments that life is not worth living: the monotony of life (3:1-5:9) and the futility of wealth (5:10-6:12). He has discovered that life "under the sun" can indeed be monotonous and empty, but it need not be if we include God in our lives. Life is God's gift to us, and we must accept what He gives us and enjoy it while we can (3:12-15, 22; 5:18-20).
Warren Wiersbe
Bible Exposition Commentary - Be Satisfied (Ecclesiastes).
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
noble
Advanced Member
Member # 11022
|
posted
Thank you Drew, I did read through Gill but reading that can give a man ennui. There were a couple of more but all away from the context. Maybe that is the issue, that there should not be context.
MY thought was as I capture vs 9, 10, and 11 , God created and set in motion the events of the world and man can't change what God has effected, and that man just has to deal with the events as they happen and all would still be vanity or a chasing after the wind.
Posts: 81 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2013
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
|
noble
Advanced Member
Member # 11022
|
posted
whatever exists has already been named and what man is, has been known. No man can contend with one who is stronger than he.
I am teaching Ecclesiastes 5 and 6 tomorrow, and the deeper I get into it the deeper it gets.
This verse, through the commentaries I study, is either glossed over or ignored altogether. McGee takes chapter 6 to verse 4 and omits the rest.
Henry is as cryptic as the verse is and Adam Clark goes side ways.
I always look at the context with the verses before and after it. After all these writings were written without chapter and verse notations.
Solomon is writing this little treatise seemingly out of his depression in old age, wondering what is the point after all these 40 years of rule, building, writing and judging. All he has and
has done will be turned over to Rehoboam who will wind up with a split kingdom, and I would guess he knows the intrigue going on.
My best guess for v10 would be man as he is here has already been named by God, ADAM and this , from the beginning. God has done this and man cannot contend with He who Created him.
But I find this to be vague as to context.
What say you?
Posts: 81 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2013
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
