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Author Topic: Proving the Bible is true
Talmid
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quote:
Originally posted by Soylentgreen:
Can any Christian here prove the Bible is true without using the Bible?

Thank you

Archeological evidence in support of the Bible is plentiful. Go dig.

--------------------
"I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another."

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Thunderz7
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The Bible that you don't want quoted, has your answer in many places, one being the first chapter of Romans
19 ¶ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Fultz III:
quote:
Originally posted by Soylentgreen:

Can any Christian here prove the Bible is true without using the Bible?

You ask a creature to prove to another creature of the validity of the Holy Bible, but yet, you have not proven to your own self that it is not valid. Otherwise, would you still be looking for it to be true?

This is what I say to that: That small still Voice within which is leading you to find the Truth, is it not also guiding you to a particular Light? That Voice which constantly whispers to your soul to heed to His beckonings, is also the only voice of reasoning which will lead to you believe that the written Word of God is true.

There is nothing that I or any other could possibly say to convince you, when at first, you doubt your own perceived convictions. So listen, do you hear that Voice leading you to the Light?

Ditto,

Well expressed...
[cool_shades]

--------------------
That is all.....

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Clyde Fultz III
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]Originally posted by Soylentgreen:


You also mention that Paul died a martyr... many people have died for their religion. A prime example of this is the Buddhist monk that set himself on fire or the hijackers on 9/11.


Which of the Christian martyrs have ever committed suicide to prove their religion to be true? Before you say Jesus committed suicide, keep in mind He was murdered by those of Cain's linage. But to Satan and his children's dismay, He was the sweet-smelling offering of Abel's.

The Word of our Lord tells us that we are slaughtered like lambs, but these examples you have given tells us that their gods are suicidal.
Satan is the god which takes one's life, as he did in the Garden, as he does. By giving His own, Christ is the One who gives life. So you tell me, how is any religion which follows Cain's footsteps true, when their gods are murderous of their own followers?


You go on to mention that millions of people 'have received Christ'. Billions of others have believed in other god(s) and their belief was just as sincere as yours. If they are all wrong (which is what you probably think), doesn't that mean there is a possibility that you are wrong too?


Tell me, of those billions which have given their trust over to their gods, how many have given it to a stone, wooden, hay, clay image, even those things which are made from man's hands?

How many Muslims believe in ali out of fear of Islamic fanatics, their brothers of faith? Would not one say and believe what must be said and believed to save his physical life, knowing his brother seek to take his life? But yet, I again say, Christians are led to the slaughterhouse knowing that their God does not require their lives, but they willfully give it up to the One who gives Life.

How many Islamic fanatics die because they love their god and know he to be true? Do they not die so that they may have many wives in their sensual paradise?

What is to be said of the Buddhist? How many lives can one have, if every second the world's population increases? Shall we kneel to a little fat statue which teaches salvation through the giving of gold? Shall we adore a child molester, as do the Muslims?

Or shall we adore and worship the One who proved His Godhead by His resurrection from Hades? Is He not the Light which that Voice inside tells you about? He is not the One you wish to know?

Listen, listen, listen!!! The Spirit Himself will show you what you look for, but listen, listen, listen!!!

--------------------
Do not take my word for it, go with an eager heart and search God's written Word yourself and find the truth by the leading of the Spirit and obedience of the faithful Son.

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Clyde Fultz III
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quote:
Originally posted by Soylentgreen:

Can any Christian here prove the Bible is true without using the Bible?

You ask a creature to prove to another creature of the validity of the Holy Bible, but yet, you have not proven to your own self that it is not valid. Otherwise, would you still be looking for it to be true?

This is what I say to that: That small still Voice within which is leading you to find the Truth, is it not also guiding you to a particular Light? That Voice which constantly whispers to your soul to heed to His beckonings, is also the only voice of reasoning which will lead to you believe that the written Word of God is true.

There is nothing that I or any other could possibly say to convince you, when at first, you doubt your own perceived convictions. So listen, do you hear that Voice leading you to the Light?

--------------------
Do not take my word for it, go with an eager heart and search God's written Word yourself and find the truth by the leading of the Spirit and obedience of the faithful Son.

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WildB
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Thats what happens.

2 Kings 6

25 And there was a great famine in Samaria: and, behold, they besieged it, until an donky 's head was sold for fourscore pieces of silver, and the fourth part of a cab of dove's dung for five pieces of silver.
26 And as the king of Israel was passing by upon the wall, there cried a woman unto him, saying, Help, my lord, O king.
27 And he said, If the LORD do not help thee, whence shall I help thee? out of the barnfloor, or out of the winepress?
28 And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow.

29 So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.

30 And it came to pass, when the king heard the words of the woman, that he rent his clothes; and he passed by upon the wall, and the people looked, and, behold, he had sackcloth within upon his flesh.

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That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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You can also watch the movies for free on YouTube. (Sorry...they start with a short ad).

The Case For Christ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMKOUzYeZ6A&feature=watch-now-button&wide=1

The Case For Faith
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=offAz70E0AY&feature=watch-now-button&wide=1

It's interesting that you choose Soylentgreen for your name. Mankind's destruction of the Earth's beauty and bounty, resulting in cannibalism.

Without hope in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, people in general can only fear a dreadful future.

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TB125
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Soylentgreen,
In your investigation regarding whether or not the Bible is true, I invite you to read two books by Lee Strobel, a former atheist, who set out on his own personal investigation for two years regarding the person of Jesus. His first book is entitled "The Case for Christ", which was published in 1998 by Zondervan Publishing House, and then a second one on "The Case for Faith" was published in 2000. He examined a lot of non-biblical evidence in his investigations. Your concerns and questions are not new, but only your own investigation of the "evidence" will satisfy your inquiry. No one can "prove" the truth of the Bible to you.

--------------------
Bob

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Caretaker
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As it says in the article the historicity of the Bible is an evidence for its credibility. One example which comes to mind is the City of Ur, Abraham's birthplace. Ur was declared to be mythological up until I believe 1929, when it was discovered by archeologists.

You will be held accountable before the very Throne of God for the relationship of your heart to Christ Jesus our Lord. If you continue to reject Jesus then you will stand guilty and are without excuse.

I would encourage you to sincerely look into the case for Christ, Who He was, what He taught, and the reality of His all encompassing love for you and each of us.


http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-God-Word.html

quote:



There are also external evidences that indicate the Bible is truly the Word of God. One is the historicity of the Bible. Because the Bible details historical events, its truthfulness and accuracy are subject to verification like any other historical document. Through both archaeological evidences and other writings, the historical accounts of the Bible have been proven time and time again to be accurate and true. In fact, all the archaeological and manuscript evidence supporting the Bible makes it the best-documented book from the ancient world. The fact that the Bible accurately and truthfully records historically verifiable events is a great indication of its truthfulness when dealing with religious subjects and doctrines and helps substantiate its claim to be the very Word of God.

Another external evidence that the Bible is truly God’s Word is the integrity of its human authors. As mentioned earlier, God used men from many walks of life to record His words. In studying the lives of these men, we find them to be honest and sincere. The fact that they were willing to die often excruciating deaths for what they believed testifies that these ordinary yet honest men truly believed God had spoken to them. The men who wrote the New Testament and many hundreds of other believers (1 Corinthians 15:6) knew the truth of their message because they had seen and spent time with Jesus Christ after He had risen from the dead. Seeing the risen Christ had a tremendous impact on them. They went from hiding in fear to being willing to die for the message God had revealed to them. Their lives and deaths testify to the fact that the Bible truly is God’s Word.

A final external evidence that the Bible is truly God’s Word is the indestructibility of the Bible. Because of its importance and its claim to be the very Word of God, the Bible has suffered more vicious attacks and attempts to destroy it than any other book in history. From early Roman Emperors like Diocletian, through communist dictators and on to modern-day atheists and agnostics, the Bible has withstood and outlasted all of its attackers and is still today the most widely published book in the world.

Throughout time, skeptics have regarded the Bible as mythological, but archeology has confirmed it as historical. Opponents have attacked its teaching as primitive and outdated, but its moral and legal concepts and teachings have had a positive influence on societies and cultures throughout the world. It continues to be attacked by pseudo-science, psychology, and political movements, yet it remains just as true and relevant today as it was when it was first written. It is a book that has transformed countless lives and cultures throughout the last 2000 years. No matter how its opponents try to attack, destroy, or discredit it, the Bible remains; its veracity and impact on lives is unmistakable. The accuracy which has been preserved despite every attempt to corrupt, attack, or destroy it is clear testimony to the fact that the Bible is truly God’s Word and is supernaturally protected by Him. It should not surprise us that, no matter how the Bible is attacked, it always comes out unchanged and unscathed. After all, Jesus said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away” (Mark 13:31). After looking at the evidence, one can say without a doubt that, yes, the Bible is truly God’s Word.




--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Caretaker
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Like I said you can receive it or reject it, and the responsibility is on you.

The burden of proof in a court of law hinges on the evidence and the eyewitness testimony.

This is what we have received and accepted and this is what you to date have rejected, as is your right.

Only when God opens the doors of your heart will you be ready to examine the evidence and actually seek the Eternal Truth of God.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Soylentgreen
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[/QUOTE]We can only present the truth, whether you receive it is strictly between you and God. When you hear the eternal Truth of Jesus what you do with it is entirely your responsibility and what you will be held accountable for as you stand before your Creator.

My faith is based upon the resurrection, for it is the empty tomb, which is the pivotal point differentiating the Christian from all other religions, and establishes the credibility of the Word of God.

1) The resurrection was foretold by Jesus Christ. Matthew writes, “From that time Jesus Christ began to show His disciples that he must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed and raised up on the third day”(Matt. 16:21) Though his followers did not understand what He was telling them at the time, they remembered and recorded His words.

2) The resurrection is the only reasonable explanation for the empty tomb. If Jesus had been only wounded he could not have removed the stone or gotten past the soldiers, likewise his disciples could not have gotten by either. His enemies would not have taken the body for it would have only encouraged belief in the resurrection.

3) The resurrection is the only reasonable explanation for the appearances of Jesus to His disciples. There were at least ten different occasions, and even eating and allowing them to touch him.

4) The resurrection is the only reason for the beginning of the Christian church. This was the foundation upon which the church was founded, and the primary subject of the first sermons.

5) The resurrection is the only reasonable explanation for the transformed lives of the disciples. They deserted Jesus during His trial and crucifixion. They remained in hiding, and it was only after the resurrection that they emerged. These same sheep hiding in the darkness emerged with power and boldness, in the very presence of their enemies, to turn the world upside down. Where once they had cowered in fear and confusion, and Peter had made his denial three times, they now endured horrid persecution and death, with faith unshaken. The transformation in the life of Paul, can only be reasonably explained by the resurrection. For he was the lead persecutor of the early church. After meeting the resurrected Lord upon the Damascus road, Paul was transformed, and he went forth boldly proclaiming the faith, even unto a martyr’s death.

6) Lastly I offer into evidence the transforming power of the resurrection, in the lives of countless millions through the centuries, who have received Christ. Each of us gives evidence in our testimony to the resurrection power of Jesus of Nazareth, to break the bonds of sin, and produce peace and righteousness in our lives. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Again, most of the evidence you give me is anecdotal evidence from the Bible, for which you need to prove the veracity of the Bible first.

You also mention that Paul died a martyr... many people have died for their religion. A prime example of this is the Buddhist monk that set himself on fire or the hijackers on 9/11.

You go on to mention that millions of people 'have received Christ'. Billions of others have believed in other god(s) and their belief was just as sincere as yours. If they are all wrong (which is what you probably think), doesn't that mean there is a possibility that you are wrong too?

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Soylentgreen
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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Soylentgreen:
Trying to convince a non-believer like me that the Bible is true, by means of quoting Bible verses is a method that simply doesn't work.

You can see how "the Bible is true because it says it is" doesn't cut it for us.

Can any Christian here prove the Bible is true without using the Bible?

Thank you

I will not.

But I will concur to the Word.

Luke 16:31 And he(Christ) said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Yet one should read the whole chapter that this came from.

Acts 24:25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

http://justbible.com/bychapter.aspx?bookchap=B44C024.htm

Look at it this way, if a Muslim said to you: what I believe is true because this verse & that verse? You wouldn't take him seriously either. So isn't it only reasonable for people who aren't Christians to ask for evidence outside of the Bible to prove it is indeed true?
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Caretaker
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quote:
Originally posted by Soylentgreen:
Trying to convince a non-believer like me that the Bible is true, by means of quoting Bible verses is a method that simply doesn't work.

You can see how "the Bible is true because it says it is" doesn't cut it for us.

Can any Christian here prove the Bible is true without using the Bible?

Thank you

We can only present the truth, whether you receive it is strictly between you and God. When you hear the eternal Truth of Jesus what you do with it is entirely your responsibility and what you will be held accountable for as you stand before your Creator.

My faith is based upon the resurrection, for it is the empty tomb, which is the pivotal point differentiating the Christian from all other religions, and establishes the credibility of the Word of God.

1) The resurrection was foretold by Jesus Christ. Matthew writes, “From that time Jesus Christ began to show His disciples that he must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed and raised up on the third day”(Matt. 16:21) Though his followers did not understand what He was telling them at the time, they remembered and recorded His words.

2) The resurrection is the only reasonable explanation for the empty tomb. If Jesus had been only wounded he could not have removed the stone or gotten past the soldiers, likewise his disciples could not have gotten by either. His enemies would not have taken the body for it would have only encouraged belief in the resurrection.

3) The resurrection is the only reasonable explanation for the appearances of Jesus to His disciples. There were at least ten different occasions, and even eating and allowing them to touch him.

4) The resurrection is the only reason for the beginning of the Christian church. This was the foundation upon which the church was founded, and the primary subject of the first sermons.

5) The resurrection is the only reasonable explanation for the transformed lives of the disciples. They deserted Jesus during His trial and crucifixion. They remained in hiding, and it was only after the resurrection that they emerged. These same sheep hiding in the darkness emerged with power and boldness, in the very presence of their enemies, to turn the world upside down. Where once they had cowered in fear and confusion, and Peter had made his denial three times, they now endured horrid persecution and death, with faith unshaken. The transformation in the life of Paul, can only be reasonably explained by the resurrection. For he was the lead persecutor of the early church. After meeting the resurrected Lord upon the Damascus road, Paul was transformed, and he went forth boldly proclaiming the faith, even unto a martyr’s death.

6) Lastly I offer into evidence the transforming power of the resurrection, in the lives of countless millions through the centuries, who have received Christ. Each of us gives evidence in our testimony to the resurrection power of Jesus of Nazareth, to break the bonds of sin, and produce peace and righteousness in our lives.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Soylentgreen:
Trying to convince a non-believer like me that the Bible is true, by means of quoting Bible verses is a method that simply doesn't work.

You can see how "the Bible is true because it says it is" doesn't cut it for us.

Can any Christian here prove the Bible is true without using the Bible?

Thank you

I will not.

But I will concur to the Word.

Luke 16:31 And he(Christ) said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Yet one should read the whole chapter that this came from.

Acts 24:25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

http://justbible.com/bychapter.aspx?bookchap=B44C024.htm

--------------------
That is all.....

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Soylentgreen
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Trying to convince a non-believer like me that the Bible is true, by means of quoting Bible verses is a method that simply doesn't work.

You can see how "the Bible is true because it says it is" doesn't cut it for us.

Can any Christian here prove the Bible is true without using the Bible?

Thank you

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